Pokémon Fusion U-Pick [Game Over]

[Something_Smart]

FL is vengeful jester.

I cc

[Something_Smart]

he has been asking a lot of questions which are useless and create no information whatsoever, which is the sort of thing scum do to look busy.

Unfortunately, this is all he knows how to do as either alignment.

[Something_Smart]

He doesn't have a 6-0 winrate. I played a game with him where he lost, and he decided not to count it because he was VT.

[Something_Smart]

The likelihood there is 1 scum in avengers/pb/flippy/RF is a pretty good reason in rvs.

What i didn't even post

Took a shot in the dark based on how Avenger entered.

Wat

[Something_Smart]

I think you're better than this.

I mean your logic doesn't hold unless Avengers are scum and know everyone's alignments, so unless you're softing something weird, I'm better than to think that makes any sense.

[Something_Smart]

i'd rather say LAMIST and explain what it means after than say look at me im so townie

+1 to this, buzzwords are shorthand for common patterns. As long as you know what the buzzword means and how it applies to the situation, you're fine.

(That last bit is critical because there are people who will spout things like LAMIST or OMGUS or WIFOM and not really have any idea why or when those things are relevant.)

[Something_Smart]

FL I am fuckin hyped to be in a game with you again my man

Ah, man.

This guy’s gonna go all the way if he’s scum pocketing us.

Are you really pocketed this easily?

[Something_Smart]

Don't hold your breath

Anything in particular you want to chat about?

[Something_Smart]

Why are you voting him over other players who aren't scumhunting?

[Something_Smart]

It's D1, I don't.

What do you do to contribute to the game then?

[Something_Smart]

Well, we have, but I wasn't really satisfied with your answers in the past. I like this one though, it does show that you do have an idea of how the game should progress.

But, if you want to sit back and watch, you can just spectate games. And if you want to chat, you can go to the discussion forums. This is a game, and you're expected to be doing

something

to try to win it. Otherwise you will be wagoned like this a lot.

You're spot-on that D1 is for gathering information, but you should do that by actively seeking out the information you want. What are you looking to find out?

[Something_Smart]

Game independent me wants this to live
Town me wants this to die

Game independent me wants to see DEB mature as a player and become stronger.

Town me wants to wring his annoying little neck

[Something_Smart]

He didn’t wait to see what Oversoul was going to say. It shows he has no interest in developing a read on me, only on pushing me.

or he just expressed an opinion about what kind of tells are and aren't valid? Just because he said one thing shouldn't factor into a read doesn't mean he isn't trying to form one. In fact I'd be concerned if he said that wasn't a tell and then turned around and based a read on it anyway.

[Something_Smart]

What are you looking to find out?

The information tells me what I'm looking for.

That's a cop-out. What information has helped you in previous games? In what ways do you plan to discover what it is you want to find out?

[Something_Smart]

Well now that I know this isn't the case. I assumed the Ironman head was sitting a neighborhood of (Avengers/RF/PB) possibly + flippy. I don't think I've ever seen an all town hood so it was a decent group to vote in whether those slots have interacted with the thread yet or not.

I thought you may have been getting at this but it still makes no sense tbh.

Have you ever actually seen someone crumb a hood like that?

[Something_Smart]

And I would expect that hoods based on flavor would be independent of alignment because, you know, upick.

[Something_Smart]

Also RCE I can confirm you are acting a bit weirder than usual. I don't think it's alignment indicative though.

[Something_Smart]

That misses the point, which is that saying "he's town but I can't say why" doesn't help anyone.

[Something_Smart]

What is it that makes you feel weird about RCE? Is it just coming from the entrance? This question might as well be directed at S_S.

Just the thing I mentioned earlier, where he assumed that a random joke post was a neighborhood crumb and then acted cryptic about it.

[Something_Smart]

Have you ever actually seen someone crumb a hood like that?

Well.

Something similar is a signature mastina move, so.

Okay fine.

Someone who isn't mastina.

[Something_Smart]

also is something_smart usually this passive? i don't have a lot of experience with him but i feel like he's been less active or involved than i'd expect

~ black widow

I have been distracted by various things in my life. My apologies. Expect an increase in engagement hopefully after the weekend.

[Something_Smart]

Hmm...i don’t have reads right now. Someone needs to push me so i can omgus and force get myself here

I don't have many reads either tbh. I fell out of paying attention to this game for a few days and now I don't remember anything.

I'm gonna have to reread, like, large parts of the game but it might not come until after the weekend :/

[Something_Smart]

I’m the second highest poster in this game, and you act like I haven’t been here, and that is very much by design.

If you're the second highest poster, and people are acting like you haven't been here, that's a problem with YOU, not them.

[Something_Smart]

They are actually looking for analysis from me. You look like you’re setting up a case to push on me due to my lack of doing anything.

Right, the most likely explanation here is that Ausuka, who prefers town and is better at town than scum, is going to try to mislynch YOU on day 1.

[Something_Smart]

No like what's the deal with "Ongoing Game"?

This, I believe.

[Something_Smart]

Pip!! \o/

To be honest, I don't remember an awful lot from most of the game myself. I should do some reading as well.

[Something_Smart]

I mentioned earlier it implies you are town by implicitly stating "I would do this but since I'm town I can't so it's still on my to-do list". That's really the best way to put it and if you don't understand it I don't think you ever will.

It may be confusion between "to-do list in this game" and "overall to-do list on the site." I originally read it from the former perspective and it also made no sense, but if you're interpreting it the latter way then I understand.

[Something_Smart]

Book kid's not a newbie, she's Ausuka aka MarioManiac4.

I liked her recent interactions with FL, don't remember much from before that.

[Something_Smart]

rce and oversoul are both hated; i think it's very unlikely for them to be s/s mechanically speaking

I would bet that Skygazer said before the picks came in "anyone who picks a pokemon that satisfied condition X will be hated regardless of alignment," or at least did something similar to this. I could see double hated scum.

[Something_Smart]

SS have you played with book kid a lot?

Yes, and my read on her is overall pretty good. I'm not extremely confident at this point in time, but once I start to get more engaged (I just came off of a busy few days, and a game I was stressed just ended) my read should get stronger. I am leaning town on her for now, though.

[Something_Smart]

There was a certain sincerity with your tone, and now that someone has pointed out that you’re Ausuka I’m certain you’re Town because scum you was just ... there without conviction or sincerity.

She altslipped 8 pages in lol. Did you not see it?

[Something_Smart]

What’s EICN?

Everything is Completely Normal, Skygazer's most recent large, with significant mod trolling and a bunch of the same players.

[Something_Smart]

Like that’s great cover if you’re scum and you’re managing to fool people who normally do read you well

True, but that is a situation that by definition doesn't arise very much. If someone can read you well, then you usually CAN'T fool them.

[Something_Smart]

Fuck me dead that’s long

Is it worth reading?

From either a meta or an entertainment pov

Definitely take a look at the setup. I wouldn't recommend you read the whole thing (unless you really like reading games) but you could ISO the players that are also in this game if you want some fresh meta.

[Something_Smart]

I'm obviously sheeping with my Gamma vote but I'm really scum reading Menalque. This "pure" nonsense just isn's right. So I'll keep my vote where it is, but I want to get a Menalque wagon started tomorrow or when Gamma's has dropped.

Oh Dr. Easy Bake might actually be town after all.

I can see it.

If DEB is scum this has a decent chance to be distancing with Menalque, actually.

[Something_Smart]

As if I wouldn’t already be yelling at him in daychat for doing it so badly

Knowing DEB, that probably wouldn't get him to stop

[Something_Smart]

Also, while I have you all here: why is my sig not appearing? I have text in it and I’ve clicked confirm and yet here, nothing

User Control Panel -> Board preferences -> Edit posting defaults -> Set "Attach my signature by default" to Yes.

[Something_Smart]

Not wrong game. Oversoul has a power to neighborize people who aren't in the game.

People who aren't familiar with me usually can't read me well. If you want suggestions for people who can read me, I can definitely give you some.

[Something_Smart]

Hmm, @ss why aren't you voting rn?

-IM

I take it you haven't played with me before

[Something_Smart]

Hey SS can you drop some reads on this thread? You said you would reread and interested to see where you are after that

Oversoul mastina book kid maybe town? I did a partial reread, not a full one.
DEB probably > rand town.
Maria leantown due to a couple of RF quips.

FL is unimpressive, more so than he usually is early as town.
RCE could be scum but probably not > rand.
Skellen could be scum.

Gamma and Pink Ball are okay for now, I'll think about them later.

I can't read Alchemist early, I can't read you yet, flippy is lurk central so far which I think is NAI, hell if I can read the 5-player hydra, I had some dumb scumping on Chemist but I think his colored posting gimmick at least cancels it out, I expect to be able to read Menalque later.

[Something_Smart]

163 217 227.

[Something_Smart]

Mastina idk. Maybe I haven't seen scumastina in her full glory but she seems a lot less agenda-driven than she was as scum.

[Something_Smart]

why do you think skellen could be scum?

I, uh, just remembered that I had an inno on her in ramblings. I was going to say that I townread her early there and not here, but that's objectively false.

So idk. Stick her in the "too early to tell" as well.

[Something_Smart]

Drawing attention to oneself for no other benefit is more likely town in a vacuum.

[Something_Smart]

Not knowing the faction ratios, I believe.

For the record, I don't think messing up the faction ratios is towny. But nevertheless, that replace out post is town.

[Something_Smart]

im impressive.

go check out Pastries that just ended! Gamma, DGB, and Kuribo were part of it, so maybe thats why they came up.

You are unimpressive and this is an unimpressive post

[Something_Smart]

@fl I think ur impressive, don’t worry about SS

Shhh this is how I get him to solve the game if he's town.

[Something_Smart]

I don't mind 1v1ing the obv scum PB if you wanna trade blows

If I'm not mistaken, you scumread him for 256?

Is that hubris something PB never has as town?

[Something_Smart]

mhm I suppose but wrt/ balance considerations I think a setup with two hated scum would be very hard to balance and if that situation came up adjustments would be made.

Presumably hated goes away in LYLO and therefore has zero effect on the balance.

[Something_Smart]

VOTE: maria[/maria]

Lmao

[Something_Smart]

Jibril slot is just town though.

Also:

Happy scum day Flavor

[Something_Smart]

Also, I'm gonna be That Guy yet again.

Menalque, you can't quote an ongoing game in your signature. It matters not that the quote is unrelated to the game; you should blank it and put it back in after the game.

[Something_Smart]

ugh, when'd you sell out to the MAN, SS?

I mean, you're welcome to fight the law, and see which of you wins

also which listmod do I need to contact to ask about whether or not that specific quote is okay?

Any listmod will do, I usually go to the one for the queue the game is in which is UT in this case, but I bet you'll get the same answer from all of them which is "better safe than sorry." It's SO easy to step over the line of discussing ongoing games if you aren't careful.

[Something_Smart]

but with that lovely suggestion that SS quoting three RF posts and claiming that Maria seemed towny bc of RF quips constitutes an actual town case I'm now p sure you're scum trying to divert from Maria

I mean, it WAS a towncase. Certainly not a comprehensive or compelling one, but he isn't misrepping there.

Also, that would be an extremely ineffective way to divert from his scumbuddy, and liable to get him strung up next. I think he's much more willing to bus than he is to try to shut down a wagon like this.

[Something_Smart]

Why is Boon town?

[Something_Smart]

we have different definitions of towncase then

I wouldn't consider calling someone leantown based on 3 posts by their predecessor in the slot to meet the standards for a case

I guess, yeah, but I don't really do full cases. I just provide arguments. So if you will, it was an argument for why RF was towny.

[Something_Smart]

Honestly if anything what I did was more shitty whiteknighting than shitty protecting my partner.

This is true. I've been caught in a shitty whiteknight as scum before, it's a lot easier than getting caught defending a buddy.

I might do itlepip today, though I'm biased because I like playing with him but if he reds, I'm not touching Maria for a while.

[Something_Smart]

Also SS, what are your thoughts on the Maria wagon?

I don't think it would exist if she were scum.

[Something_Smart]

I think you're straight up scum and you're trying to discredit me

Do town never discredit anyone?

[Something_Smart]

Do you not think it's possible for town to think someone is wrong and refute that person's argument, without actually thinking that person is scum?

Why don't you think pip is doing that?

[Something_Smart]

Because he’s deliberately framing things to try and make me look bad

Do you think scum frequently say things that they know are stupid, untrue, or huge stretches?

It sounds like you're suggesting that, because he's done those things, he must be scum who thinks he can get away with it rather than being town or scum who hasn't read enough.

I don't agree with that assumption. If the things he's said were wrong or misleading, and it sounds like they were, I don't think they were intentionally so.

[Something_Smart]

Also, confirmation bias is a thing. A huge thing that makes town pushing look like scum framing. Grasping at straws is not a scum characteristic.

[Something_Smart]

Who’s confbiasing here, me or him? I don’t think I am, I think he’s genuinely digging him self a deeper hole from interacting with me and that’s why he’s now ignoring me

He is, is what I was getting at. I'm suggesting that a lot of the things he's done that you think are scummy can also come from confbiased town.

[Something_Smart]

Also SS wth How am I confbiasing?

Come on that slip is hot garbage and you should know that.

[Something_Smart]

As college does.

[Something_Smart]

There can, but I think it's unlikely because I townread her.

If she does end up being scum, odds are she is being bussed.

[Something_Smart]

One (1), what’s your read on itlepip?

Ehh mild scumlean but I expect to read him better as the game goes on. Not interested in D1'ing him.

Two (2), how are you as scum? Do you consider yourself good scum? How do you typically play as scum?

Bad, no, badly. My scumgame is some combination of stilted imitation of my towngame and trying to push as many lynches as I can (mislynches and buses alike).

Three (3), who here have you played with before? Of those people which two (2) know you beat?

You and Jibril are the only ones here whom I have not played with. FL and book kid probably know me best, but RCE and itlepip are not that far behind.

[Something_Smart]

For all the times we've bumped into each other I don't think we've played as many games together as I have with the people I listed, and I also don't think you've ever seen my scumgame, unless I'm forgetting something?

[Something_Smart]

You saw it in the first Scumteam Unpick for like two weeks before you replaced out.

Sorry if you felt slighted I know a lot of people in this playerlist well. It's why I joined the game!

[Something_Smart]

The other thing is, I've played a ton of games with FL, RCE, and Ausuka recently, so they may be more fresh in my memory.

[Something_Smart]

In what way do you think I was pocketing you? By giving you answers that you wanted to hear?

My pocketing method as scum is very different. It usually involves heavily defending someone who's getting pressured, so if I were pocketing anyone right now it'd be Maria or maybe pip. Being helpful and answering questions is just my thing as either alignment.

[Something_Smart]

Honestly the only part I was surprised about was that he was scumreading me, pretty disappointed since I thought he could read me a bit better than that.

I'm rusty at reading you Like I said, give it some time.

[Something_Smart]

Also SS you could be pocketing Maria since you agree with me that the wagon is bad

Yeah lol I said if I was pocketing anyone it'd be her.

I actually have done exactly that to her before and pocketed her clear through to endgame as a result. So you can ask her if she thinks it's at all similar, because it's not

[Something_Smart]

When did self-meta become the meta :p, there's been so much of that recently.

I never understood the people who disliked self-meta. Like yeah, it's unreliable... if nobody in the game knows you at all or wants to see for themselves. Otherwise, you lie about self-meta, you get caught.

I've always given honest self-meta, even as scum.

[Something_Smart]

it Auro capitalizes

[Something_Smart]

l33t

[Something_Smart]

Hey, who would be down for a flippy lynch here?

*reads flippy ISO*

*raises hand*

[Something_Smart]

Statistically, probably? I don't think any specific player is scum pushing Maria, if that's what you're asking.

[Something_Smart]

I’m not against a Flippy lynch but if we let him live a bit we might get another golden post like in anime Upick where he forgets his SK result for a few Days.

Lol wut

[Something_Smart]

Boon, what makes you think he can do that?

[Something_Smart]

So... when he was scum, you scumread him and died for it.

Here, you townread him, but for some reason you're afraid that since last game he's magically learned to post exactly what is necessary for you to townread him?

[Something_Smart]

What makes you think he can’t?

Dude has one scumgame on the site.

I've been playing for three and a half years, and I still can't do that.

I'm not saying it's impossible, some people such as Nahdia and MariaR came to the site and immediately played amazing scumgames. But the vast majority of people have to walk before they can run.

[Something_Smart]

I'm excited for when I roll scum against Boon. I want to see how that plays out

[Something_Smart]

Considering I'm town the flippy wagon feels way easier than it should be. It hints to Tvt

I doubt scum would be hesitant to bus flippy if he were scum here. They would be paranoid of the wagon going through without them doing anything and then them looking bad as a result.

[Something_Smart]

Why don't you want to lynch Flippy Maria? If he flips red I'm coming for you.

Wrong.

See what I just said.

[Something_Smart]

So you don't want to lynch Flippy then Smart? Scum AKA Menalque could already be on the wagon.

What makes you think I don't want to lynch him?

[Something_Smart]

You're not voting for him.

You know how reticent I am with my vote, though, and I did specifically say I wanted to lynch him.

Have you not been reading?

[Something_Smart]

I don't need to wait to be hammer, I can just vote him to L-1 and Boon will show up out of literal nowhere and hammer

But I don't see a reason to do that yet, considering we're having some actual interesting discussion at the moment.

[Something_Smart]

i think im also a generally liked person

Can confirm \o/

[Something_Smart]

okay so for the record i have like no faith in the flippy wagon actually flipping scum

I'm with you tbh, but I also wouldn't feel that bad about losing town-him after his... less than stellar contributions.

However I don't really think anyone's presence or absence on the wagon is alignment indicative unless Maria is scum.

[Something_Smart]

Feels pointless to claim too. Any Pokemon mixture could be scum.

I mean you can claim what your role does...

[Something_Smart]

I’m just way more active as scum D1 cos i know I’m most likely gonna die if i dont do anything.

Last night tomorrow begs to differ...

[Something_Smart]

What game is that? If is before my newbie scum game then it makes sense. I just started trying as scum. & if i was scum i would of been trying here

Probably yeah, it was one of your first games onsite I think. You were scum, barely posted at all, and got lynched Day 1.

[Something_Smart]

Is it on Flips? Probably not hammering flips.

[Something_Smart]

VOTE: DEB

[Something_Smart]

It's L-1 now.

[Something_Smart]

Hmm...yeah, this is a scum motivated wagon.

So start a town motivated one then!

[Something_Smart]

FL is very distinctly not playing like he does as town.

[Something_Smart]

Y’all, it’s Day 1 in a large. How you tryna play something like that? Every game of mine’s different.

Yes, true, I should have added an "in my experience" to that, because we both know my experience with town-you is pretty limited

[Something_Smart]

I don’t see why he would not drop the hammer on me if he was scum & just play the. “I haven’t been reading but saw L1 & couldn’t resist” card

I think you're right.

Of course, I also think him being scum with you is a real possibility, so it doesn't look BETTER for you, but if you flip town I'm willing to trust this read.

[Something_Smart]

Even after the Cheeky situation?

You defended flippy here much like you defended Cheeky there.

[Something_Smart]

Oh did he defend cheeky when she was about to be mislynched?

No she was his buddy.

[Something_Smart]

Nope, EICN again.

[Something_Smart]

Bringing FL into my town block.

?????

[Something_Smart]

SS, you’re read on me feels fabricated. I feel like you’re actively choosing to scum read me, so I’m leaning Scumthing Smart because of it.

I'm pretty sure the last thing I said on you was that I agreed with flippy's townread on you.

[Something_Smart]

Well, it was the last read I gave on you.

[Something_Smart]

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 to reach a lynch. Day 1 ends in (expired on 2019-07-21 21:20:00).

Don't scare me like that.

[Something_Smart]

The post that made me want to say that was your ????’s

Oh I was objecting to him townbinning you based on your claim.

[Something_Smart]

Well, then, he phrased it badly and I misunderstood.

[Something_Smart]

Anyway Boon you're in my "sort later" bin where you usually are, unless flippy flips scum which would shoot you way down.

[Something_Smart]

And I actually think my thoughts on you are way more complex and nuanced than they would be if I were scum.

[Something_Smart]

And I actually think my thoughts on you are way more complex and nuanced than they would be if I were scum.

Your posted thoughts or just your view on him so far?

I don't actually know how to accurately form that question.

Well, both. But I'm referring to what I've posted because, you know, you guys can read that.

[Something_Smart]

But that's irrelevant, I don't really expect anyone (even the people who know me well) to be able to confidently back that up.

[Something_Smart]

A50 maybe...?

[Something_Smart]

Bad town because he sr me for hydra slipping when that’s NAI for me

That just sounds like plain old bad, not bad town.

[Something_Smart]

We are cool, that doesn't exempt me from saying something you did was bad

[Something_Smart]

What do you think of flippy's argument for why Boon is town?

[Something_Smart]

What do you think of flippy's argument for why Boon is town?

Isn’t Flippy dead?

That's hardly relevant to the topic at hand.

[Something_Smart]

What about my argument for town!FL, SS?

I don't think he engaged enough D1 for that tell to be clear, if it even is accurate.

[Something_Smart]

Is it too much to ask that someone unvote us and you WOATS don’t rush this?

You realize that if you use the insult WOAT more than once ever, it loses its meaning

[Something_Smart]

Reads based on a single post can be deep, especially townreads.

[Something_Smart]

I think there's a good chance that scum is between (Maria, avengers)

Why's that?

[Something_Smart]

For those who have played with deb does he use his shitposting to derail topics a lot?

yes

[Something_Smart]

SS what did you think of the long post?

Just read it at your behest because that shit is hard to follow on mobile.

It reads like a collection of vague, weak points that doesn't deserve to be put in a wallpost. I think the main message of that post could, and should, be written in a few sentences with a few links to pertinent posts.

[Something_Smart]

That's a huge stretch.

[Something_Smart]

@SS why was it weak?

Most of your assertions were either made without a reason or not properly connected to the alignment of the player in question.

Meaning, in most cases you didn't really show why the player is more likely to do the indicated behavior as town or as scum.

[Something_Smart]

I mean, that's fine, but in that case it's a bit weird to go around asking people what they think of it.

[Something_Smart]

I don't think Menalque is that annoying.

[Something_Smart]

I didn’t really like how far you went with buddying Pink.

I am preeeetty sure that's a personality thing.

[Something_Smart]

But your baseline is to assume that his scumgame is that transparently different from his towngame rather than assuming that he uses similar tactics and methods as both alignments?

[Something_Smart]

My baseline is to assume Town doesn’t go around buddying other slots because they can’t be sure if the other slot is scum or not.

What Chemist said. It's totally possible for town to get strong townreads, and it's also possible (and frequent) for town to act more confident than they have any right to be.

[Something_Smart]

AtE?

It's just E. There's no A.

[Something_Smart]

Fencesitting is not a scumtell.

[Something_Smart]

...no?

[Something_Smart]

That's not how the Force works.

[Something_Smart]

What are you confused about?

Just because scum do something doesn't make it a scumtell.

[Something_Smart]

Maria's definitely a doctor. Doesn't make her town, but I'm fine leaving her alone for a while.

[Something_Smart]

Townflip incoming.

[Something_Smart]

There can be 2 weather conditions simultaneously?

https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Acid_rain

Apparently.

[Something_Smart]

SS are you confirming this?

Yeah. We can still read it but we can't talk in it.

[Something_Smart]

And this might be scum theatre

This one resonates with me to some extent.

I think DEB better start stepping up his game, at least.

[Something_Smart]

I’m really trying to town read Something, but avengers has some associations with him that I don’t like. I had a little paranoia with him as well too despite generally not seeing him as too scummy. Kinda under the radar which makes me think of LNT.

Ohai.

I don't think I'm THAT much under the radar.

[Something_Smart]

Although I will concede that it would totally be a scum-me play to tell you I didn't think mastina was mason and then secretly kill her...

I STILL can't see where you got that from and I think it was just a fluke.

[Something_Smart]

Guns & Roses was definitely a weird game but I think it at least gave you some idea of what dealing with scum-S_S is like. My tone is definitely different.

[Something_Smart]

Come on dude look at that itlepip post and tell me it's not coming from scum

Yeah man going to conferences is so scummy?

What do you dislike about that post?

Also, if anyone can make the weather sunny, now's the time to claim it.

[Something_Smart]

Really? I'm not in the habit of appreciating people who brush off serious questions with joke answers.

[Something_Smart]

I don't strongly townread pip but I find the case on him wholly uncompelling.

[Something_Smart]

VOTE: DEB

For great justice.

[Something_Smart]

I'm not even voting you, why do you know that I'm scumreading you if you were "ignoring my posts", itlepip?

This is not productive.

[Something_Smart]

OH MY GOD SS CONGRATULATIONS YOUR FIRST VOTE IN THE WHOLE GAME THIS IS HUGE

Yeah. I figured that my intervention would be beneficial in helping a wagon other than pip and Menalque to take off.

[Something_Smart]

You're antagonizing him so you can find more things to scumread.

That helps nobody.

[Something_Smart]

~VCA is trash~

[Something_Smart]

This has been a public service announcement.

[Something_Smart]

Okay yeah maybe that was a bit out of line but like.

What's your evidence for those VCA claims?

[Something_Smart]

I don't really think that triple-bus or zero-bus scenarios happen that much less frequently than probability says they would if the voters on a wagon were random.

Also, your reads can change those probabilities. Supposing (as an extreme example) you had a hard townread on everyone off-wagon aside from pip. It doesn't mean that pip is guaranteed to be scum; it means that your initial assumption that triple-bus was very unlikely needs to be reevaluated because it's a hell of a lot more likely now.

The reason I object to a lot of VCA is that people come up with prior probabilities for unlikely events like all three scum being on the wagon, but they never update their priors with new information-- because if they did, it would invalidate their argument which was barely (if at all) valid to begin with.

[Something_Smart]

He means low hanging fruit I presume.

[Something_Smart]

So you think all of Menalque, itlepip, Deb can be town?

Why couldn't they be?

[Something_Smart]

Why are you asking if you're voting one of them?

Because I'm not 100% confident in my reads?

I'm pretty sure my reads this game are worse than they normally are, too.

Who do you propose if all three were town?

That very much depends on the gamestate at that time.

[Something_Smart]

It just seems like an arbitrary claim to make that at least one of them is definitely scum, just because they are the town's three collective scumreads.

[Something_Smart]

You're making it sound like they are total random guesses instead of a culmination of reads, vca (which I disagree that it's useless), gamestate, and flipped information.

I mean, that's fair. I just object to comments like "one of these three must be scum" because that's a great way to confbias yourself into chaining mislynches even when the gamestate has changed to the point where that's no longer the right play. I'm not saying that's going to happen here, just that you should be reevaluating your reads at each step and not chugging blindly ahead.

Also attacking popular opinion proposed by the current townblock and not offering any alternatives isn't really helpful.

True, but it's kinda my MO

I'm not "attacking," though, merely questioning.

[Something_Smart]

Please let your vendetta on me go, it’s played out tbh.

That's not why, actually. You have a couple of nasty interactions with Avengers, and I'm not interested in wagoning pip or Menalque.

Also in your 250 posts I haven't really seen much analysis, even though it's Day 3 and you should be able to do that stuff by now?

[Something_Smart]

Pip’s response to the wagon feels so forced and desperate

Are these qualities more likely to come from scum than town?

[Something_Smart]

Replace "good" with "charismatic" to get an objective statement which is what I believe he meant.

[Something_Smart]

Uhh I think everyone voting Avengers here is town and at least 2 and honestly most likely 3 scum are on Maria here? I think it's pretty clear that scum wanted Avengers to live day 2.

I don't think the Avengers lynch was centrally organized enough for that to be the case.

[Something_Smart]

the other 10% feels like scum would have killed a doctor last night if there were 2 real doc claims. I mean unless they have a bunch of strongman shots

I think a single strongman shot is enough to justify it tbh. Two-shot docs in a large aren't going to be targeting unclaimed players. As long as they have the means to take out someone important after they claim, the docs are probably not that much of a threat to them.

[Something_Smart]

Sorry but I have literally no idea what this means

I don't think town had their shit together. So if scum had been trying their hardest to save Avengers, they probably wouldn't have been lynched.

[Something_Smart]

They weren't lynched for most of the day and the wagon encountered a large amount of resistance but then town suddenly swung onto Avengers in a short period of time in a way where it seems likely scum wouldn't have been able to do anything about it. I think it makes perfect sense that scum didn't want the wagon to go through and it did anyway, because it was a sudden movement and they never got an actual chance to oppose it or do anything during that.

Maybe. But it's possible that scum jumped on it near the end believing it was inevitable.

[Something_Smart]

Alchemist used Double Post!

Hit 2 time(s)!

[Something_Smart]

Yeah, a roleblocker's like a doctor, except instead of being like a doctor, it's nothing like a doctor.

[Something_Smart]

And, more importantly, if Menalque would claim town roleblocker as scum roleblocker.

[Something_Smart]

I seriously doubt that he would.

[Something_Smart]

The more you try to vote me the more desperate you seem to get me off your scent.

This doesn't add up... if he were trying to get you to stop suspecting him, wouldn't he be buddying you instead of pushing you?

[Something_Smart]

UNVOTE:

[Something_Smart]

I don't know anything about balance but it sounds weird, like we have only 3/4 claims and they're all related c'mon there's something weird going on

If this means anything at all...

...it means that FL is scum.

Dead serious on that.

[Something_Smart]

I’m really good at creating WIFOM setup spec because hunting for PR and analyzing before hand is a strong suit of mine, so as scum, I’m able to prematurely create setup spec that makes sense, and control it that way.

Yeah, basically this. My point was that if all these connected claims are the work of scum, the only player in this game who would have their partners do that is FL

[Something_Smart]

Maria's definitely a doctor. Doesn't make her town, but I'm fine leaving her alone for a while.

So this was what made Mastina and I believe SS was roleblocker that targeted Maria.

We at least believed he had some knowledge on Maria's role.

Iso diving was probably a bad idea though because now I've given myself the idea that SS + FL could be a thing and FL is like my second top town.

Oh lol, no. It was because of Maria's "if you're really a doctor you should know what I'm talking about" which is just downright suicide when said to a real doctor by someone who actually has no idea what, if anything, is distinctive about the doctors.

[Something_Smart]

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

I cannot for the life of me get a grip on this game.

[Something_Smart]

The fact that I don't hard scumread Boon after he's made 400 posts ought to suggest that he's town...

...but I townread literally every player other than him

[Something_Smart]

986 is awfully blunt for scum.
Menalque's posts read as natural and unforced.
Oversoul's claim and replace-out were towny.
Maria usually puts more effort in as scum, and her claim and interaction with Ausuka seemed legit, and Katyusha who was townreading her died.
Your claim would be a weird-ass thing for scum to claim, and iirc you softed it way back so you would have been preparing it for a while.

[Something_Smart]

Damn, sorry to hear that.

[Something_Smart]

Menalque is natural as scum

Is N1938 the game you're referring to with this?

I skimmed his ISO in that game and it legit looks like a different person wrote it from here. I would not call it "natural" at all.

[Something_Smart]

986 is decent but not enough to clear a slot.

No obviously not, having clearing townreads on all but one player would be ridiculous Many of them are pretty damn weak, DEB included.

[Something_Smart]

I also had this whole orange juice plan with SS in our neighborhood in regards to confirming to him if I was correct on my Mastina read.

This is true, but how's it relevant right now?

[Something_Smart]

V/LA until Monday

[Something_Smart]

why?

That's such a dumb role to give to scum like lol. It doesn't really work unless you mod confirm the player's alignment in the PT and if they're confirmed scum anyway then the extra brains mean very little. And if the slot was scum then why tie the replacement's hands by committing to a claim immediately before replacing out?

[Something_Smart]

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

Something_Smart died last night! He was

Mr. Sir, town 2-shot bug attacker + neighbor

.

the only thing I can think of is that FL is scum and killed me yet again.

Flavor Leaf, Lapnine (neighborizing doctor/healer + 1-shot commuter + 2-shot fire attacker) was mafia and has won the game!

I'm not salty, you're salty.

[Something_Smart]

town protections/town roleblockers

against a 3-shot strongman? press X to doubt.