Detective Penguin & City of Fogport [Game Over]

[Kagami]

Wait you can't just say you're informed and not share with the class

I think you're informed too, and town for it.

[Kagami]

so that the mafia could narrow down the pool that must be the cop neighborhood

FG balances his games around the belief that almost all town-aligned hidden information will become revealed D1. There is not going to be a cop neighborhood, and that seems like a strange thing to think anyway.

[Kagami]

Marquis
PenguinPower

Chandra Nalaar

Fish Monger

ofrhz
Croag
Kagami
Bingle
Day One Lynch
Vecna
Perry Pelican
Judge Joseph Dredd
Gorkington
popsofctown
kuribo
Flavor Leaf

Pine?

I think this list is almost suspiciously good for post #80, including the aspects that make almost no sense, and I would like to subscribe to marquis's newletter.

[Kagami]

If I'm interpreting Vecna's posts correctly, then that slot is almost certainly town given the disastrous Touhou UPick in which town never was permitted to lynch.

[Kagami]

probably

you know what would be great

if we identified the miller neighborhoods

so that the mafia could narrow down the pool that must be the cop neighborhood
that would be great page 1-10 strategy

The more I think about this, the stranger it feels, pops.

So this assumes that everyone is in a neighborhood, or else line 3 doesn't make a whole of sense.

If everyone is in a neighborhood, then the scum must be too, and since there are 3-4 scum (I'm betting 3 given caffeine win-con), they would pretty much be in every neighborhood. Except I guess the cop neighborhood, which then must be an awesome cop-masonry?

And this is somehow more likely than there just being a cop in the setup, like, say, someone named Detective Penguin Powers?

[Kagami]

line 4*

[Kagami]

What's your scum shortlist looking like, pops?

[Kagami]

I'm a little lost this game

I have vecna as pretty solidly town, if that helps.

[Kagami]

I think there's some confusion between "Investigates as Mafia," which people are calling "Miller" as shorthand, while other people are interpreting Miller as a specific role that implies Town alignment.

[Kagami]

VOTE: fishmonger

[Kagami]

Marquis
PenguinPower

Chandra Nalaar

Fish Monger

ofrhz
Croag
Kagami
Bingle
Day One Lynch
Vecna
Perry Pelican
Judge Joseph Dredd
Gorkington
popsofctown
kuribo
Flavor Leaf

Pine?

I think this list is almost suspiciously good for post #80, including the aspects that make almost no sense, and I would like to subscribe to marquis's newletter.

A list with 4 reads is too good for post #80?

I had thought the middle group was ordered townish to scummish, and carried a remarkable amount of seemingly impossible insight, but I see that it's just playerlist order. Shrug.

[Kagami]

Every single


Game



I miss the first 20-30 pages because I was busy


Fml

To save you some time, ISOs of interest are {Bingle, D1L, Fish Monger, JJD, kuribo}. Next tier is {pops, pine, gork}, maybe?

TL;DR on setup is that there are several neighborhoods consisting of 3 people each in which members are informed that every other member has a specific modifier. Nobody has mentioned flavor for any of them.

Pine, Kuribo, Fish Monger -- Ninja Neighborhood
Marquis, Bingle, Vecna -- Miller? Neighborhood and maybe also vanilla-izers? Seem to have voting quirks.
Perry, pops, Flavor leaf -- Miller Neighborhood.

[Kagami]

Because there's a very real chance pops is scum here and I see nothing that points me in the direction of disinterest, and I don't know who urban is.

[Kagami]

While some people have already done so, I would appreciate it if people would make an effort to mention their top townreads and top scumreads in their upcoming posts.

This game feels quite muddy, deadlines are short, and we have a dearth of clear stances.

[Kagami]

Are these PRs game-relevant, or are they intended to enforce some degree of role-playing?

So far, I do not think you've done a great job of acting the part, flavor leaf, so if you're being serious, please step it up.

[Kagami]

hider can hide behind me it's safe
vecna me Chandra kuribo fish gork all town
everyone else pls start towntelljnh

Do you think this list minus marquis is all town, pops?

[Kagami]

Are you someone I've played with before, pelican?

[Kagami]

My townie brownie list is looking like:

gork
ofrhz
chandra
penguin
pelican
kuribo
vecna

Open to suggestions for amendment if coupled with a succinct argument.

[Kagami]

ofrhz

please regale me with your insight because im in a place where listing "the moon" on your townlist seems to make more sense

Given the recent post, I suspect you're correct and that I was reading more deeply into something than I should have.

[Kagami]

Pops town - I just looked at Marquis miller claim now (I forgot he did that and I had to go check after Jingle said it) and I saw Pop voting Marquis right away, that feels really towny

If pops is scum, what does she do differently?

[Kagami]

I remember thinking day one was town. Consistently going against the grain

o.O

[Kagami]

I get the impression that the new meta involves a lot of posturing with the intent to pretend to be much better at this game than people actually are.

[Kagami]

Well, I think most of my list stands, and people aren't presenting any exciting evidence to the contrary.

I'm fairly happy to lynch any of {fish, jjd, and D1L}. Of the people outside of my list (with offers removed), I would shed a tear or two for pops and marquis, though my sympathy for marquis declines as posting fails to happen.

I would like to hear some exciting insight from croag in the not-so-distant future, and I'm interested in understanding where penguin's head is atm.

[Kagami]

So vecna triple vote? I had thought you were saying your votes increase over time.

Ceph is someone I've played a fair bit with, and I really don't think he's scum here.

[Kagami]

How the fuck do you have a miller that's a reflexive roleblocking vanillaizer

A roleblocking vanillaizer makes a miller modifier moot since no one can get an investigation result on them anyway

Ever seen the move Once Upon a Crime? I think this game is a lot like that.

[Kagami]

@FakeGod: Please prod Croag

[Kagami]

Don't be a goofy-gus, pops.

[Kagami]

What do you think about 977, ceph?

[Kagami]

What do you think about 977, ceph?

I disagree that scum would necessarily discuss something like that, but agree that voting there right away doesn't seem like a scum move.

If you're getting at something deeper, I am missing it.

I completely disagree, but maybe I'm wrong?

I'm pretty sure scum-pops makes that vote in a heartbeat every single time. If you're a scummo in a miller neighborhood, you absolutely jump on a miller claim. Such a beautifully easy-seeming vote would feel like a Christmas present come early.

If you're town, then you ~might~ jump on it, if you just like thinking. I think a competent townerino (which is where I place pops) assumes marquis is lying for possibly town-motivated reasons and tries to feel it out. It's not like you'd be afraid of losing a 1 on 1 when you have a neighborhood of players who know you're telling the truth.

I was thinking the read is super shallow, but that it reflects less on D1L than it does on pops for ignoring it, and then voting me despite our being in seemingly good read alignment.

[Kagami]

This caffeine talk is absurd.

Half the town should act. If you have a role that you expect to be in the upper 50 percentile in terms of power, you should act.

[Kagami]

And if you have a role that demands you be killed to stop it, you absolutely, 107% act. That includes Vig.

[Kagami]

Scum are going to have 6 kills tops during the period where caffeine matters, Bingle.

Unless town opts to selectively lynch decaffeinated players, then we'll be fine as long as people are at least reasonably selective.

If there's a Doc, which seems pretty likely, that already does a lot to make it very difficult to effect a caffeine endgame.

[Kagami]

Is AP angryPidgeon?

[Kagami]

scum-pops

I thought we were talking about marquis

I don't have a strong opinion about marquis anymore, beyond that I suspect almost every individual role claim we've had so far is at least partially a lie.

[Kagami]

I find D1L <--> pops interactions very suspect, but still think Fish is just correct.

[Kagami]

Somehow I've never managed to get in a political discussion during a game of mafia.

[Kagami]

I liked AP :<

[Kagami]

Somehow I've never managed to get in a political discussion during a game of mafia.

Kagami, what is your opinion of the 1889 Act to Regulate Appointments in the Marine Hospital Service of the United States?

I like sea creatures and support attempts to provide them proper medical care.

[Kagami]

Meh, you might be right, idk. I don't really think it's going to work like that unless even the multivoters have caffeine abilities and choose to use them.

If the scum has to somehow gun down a bunch of multivoting commuters and whatever while real town power gets free reign, that seems ok with me.

I think FG learned a very hard lesson from the crazy touhou UPick setup that bears some resemblance to this one, so I don't expect there to be a crazy powerful scum team.

[Kagami]

I am probably the player who is best qualified to read FG's mind regarding setup construction, and I suspect that the setup is designed to be roughly balanced regardless of how town uses caffeine addiction.

FG does not believe Towns on this site are competent to create a cohesive plan and stick to it, even when such a plan is potentially gamebreaking.

FG does not believe Towns on this site are capable of effectively hiding non-private information from scum. He has designed this game with the assumption that all neighborhood powers and constituencies are fully known to the scum by the end of Day 1.

[Kagami]

At the end of the day, it's a good thing.

If we do a better job than terrible at keeping some town info to ourselves, then the game somewhat leans in our favor.

[Kagami]

Perry, if I had the lovely power to day-nuke all of

{Fish, D1L, JJD, Flavor, pops},

but you had the power to intervene and replace any of them with players from

{PenguinPower, Vecna, Gorkington, kuribo, Chandra, Pine},

which replacements would you make?

[Kagami]

I don't really like the nuke list. So maybe nuke the bottom list but switch Chandra with jjd.

Holy smokes.

Assuming you're town, one of us has absolutely awful reads.

If it turns out to be me, I will fully admit to my error post-game, but I expect the same courtesy from you if it's the opposite.

[Kagami]

Isn't JJD light town as of 967?

[Kagami]

I don't really like the nuke list. So maybe nuke the bottom list but switch Chandra with jjd.

Holy smokes.

Assuming you're town, one of us has absolutely awful reads.

If it turns out to be me, I will fully admit to my error post-game, but I expect the same courtesy from you if it's the opposite.

Of course. But I don't think we are the same alignment, as told by my vote.

While I'm making a show of being fairhanded, the truth is that I wouldn't have made the above statement if your vote on me didn't provide strong evidence that I'm not the one who will be proven wrong.

p-edit: Yes, perry is town. =\

[Kagami]

Kagami experience: Ceph > Marquis > pops. I've played with Pine, pisskop, and kuribo once each, iirc. I don't know the rest of you.

I would absolutely nuke that list in an instant and expect at least two hits. If you want to provide more than "I don't like it," then I'd be delighted to hear what that is.

[Kagami]

This kind of sounds like pops is correct o.O

[Kagami]

Where did pelican say he didn't have an individual ability that he investigates as mafia?

[Kagami]

What are you calling moon logic, ceph?

[Kagami]

Penguin, you make me sad.

Also, pops is town, I was wrong on that one.

[Kagami]

No, I had thought pops was plausibly scum, but I hadn't really understood the argument she was making.

[Kagami]

Penguin, you make me sad.

Why do I make you sad?

What can I do to cheer you up? More gifs?

Gaiden cheers me up with touhou music.

FG cheers me up with kind words that I don't deserve.

You can cheer me up by having awesome insights into the current gamestate and voting someone more exciting than Pine.

(I'm not really sad by any stretch of the imagination. I'm actually a rather cheerful person who doesn't really convey that in forumsville)

[Kagami]

Anyone who claims to have shot a vanilliazing roleblocker gets lynched, dont they? And I dont think using the scum kill as cover long term typically works.

Dont scum typically pay *more* attention to their role PMs, if anything?

It is odd that hes stuck on the point and not said "oh yeah it does say that oops," but where is the scum equity?

Yes, not their fake claims, though.

The opposite seems more likely to me

There’s a reason I was voting you the majority of this game.

We have fundamentally different approaches to the game. That doesnt make me scum.

Ceph, Marquis summed the argument up fairly well in 1452. I don't see a clear "emphatic statement," but Perry does have posts that would be very strange if he has "You investigate as Mafia" is his town role PM. Paying *more* attention to his role PM doesn't help him, because it's a very simple and easy misinterpretation that "Everyone in this neighborhood investigates as Mafia" is an aspect of the neighborhood, not a feature of each player's role if you don't have that additional "You investigate as Mafia" clause in your role PM. (This seems like a design error, btw).

He has a confirmable claim, because he's probably telling the truth that he's a vig. FG likes giving scum extra kills in larger games. He won't have to pretend to shoot a vanillaizing roleblocker; he'll just shoot Town that are plausible vig shots.

VOTE: Perry

[Kagami]

I had agreed with Perry's early townreads, and then his movement toward me seemed both novel and natural given the opinions he had expressed so far (not liking fish wagon, TRs on D1L/JJD, etc)

[Kagami]

I had not interpreted Vecna correctly. I thought 232 in the content of having just heard Bingle's claim meant that he had one vote today and would be gaining an additional vote every day.

Bingle's role is plausibly scum, since at no point would scum gain full control of the lynch. Vecna's role as I had inferred, however, would. After viewtopic.php?p=7414219#p7414219 , I believe FG would be ~extremely~ careful about scum being able to unilaterally control the lynch, and he would avoid at all costs situations where whoever gets to the thread first wins.

[Kagami]

I would be if not for both the "slip" and the vig. I'm very suspicious of multiple vigs in a FG setup. The slip isn't 100% unless I'm missing something more explicit than implications like those in 1440

[Kagami]

I've been pretty skeptical of every claim from everybody so far, but this one seems like a trueclaim to me...

[Kagami]

Nope, though I get the idea.

[Kagami]

1440

This was supposed to be 1140, but on reread of the overnight stuff, 1390 is explicit.

[Kagami]

Because confirming it doesn't make it town. FG likes scum vigs.

[Kagami]

Marquis, FG puts a scum vig in almost all of his larger setups. He likes games to end fast. Look at the recent Guns & Roses setup, in which the scum are all one-shot vigs and there's an alternative win-con that is basically the same as this one. You're also assuming 4 scum, which I don't think is necessarily the case, especially since the pool is getting very shallow.

I admit my feet are getting a little chilly on Perry, but if we're going to look elsewhere, I'd like to at least ensure that his shot is directed.

[Kagami]

(I'm not touching that 50/50 stinking pile Pelli vs FL)

On what planet is this a 50/50?

[Kagami]

It's not even a counterclaim, kuribo.

In a vaccuum I'd be happy to believe there are two town vigs here, and Perry apparently already knew FL was probably vig.

[Kagami]

I certainly agree that the notion of "I can secretly inform select other players of my role via meta" feels pretty contrary to how the game is supposed to be played.

I don't care too much about the other meta nonsense; I think we're currently on a pretty good track anyway?

p-edit: I agree! Outside of a vacuum, perry is probably scum, and I can't even imagine how you arrive at this as a "50/50" sort of thing.

[Kagami]

Come now, kuribo... we're looking at a lynch in 6 RL days, and I feel like the game is in a pretty good place?

Yes, the meta stuff and secret alts who pretend they're not secret (I guess new players think themselves famous?) are pretty annoying, but whatever.

I think we all have a pretty long, and mostly well synced townie brownie list at this point.

[Kagami]

Maybe it's hard to lynch people because 2-3 people just aren't present and appear to be unwilling to sheep, and then we also have multivoters who are unwilling to multivote.

[Kagami]

I'm with you in spirit, ceph, but I don't want to derail.

[Kagami]

Can you just shoot Pine?

He about in the same place on my list, maybe even a bit higher, but I just can't ever see being sad about that whichever way he flips.

[Kagami]

Low activity for the next few days for the Halpin puzzle hunt.

[Kagami]

I bet the mod/spec PT is having a good laugh about something today. FG is batting a thousand on this one.

I was sort of hoping to wake up to an in-depth analysis of Fish's posts and interactions with other players, so I wouldn't have to go back myself. These wagon-based speeches have been pre-written, and that's something town shouldn't do.

FL did not shoot Fish. I have no idea why anyway would think that.

[Kagami]

I'm just using common sense.

Pine has claimed that Fish died by shooting kuribo when he "holstered," and FL had Fish as a strong townread all day yesterday.

[Kagami]

I'm 2.5 puzzles and a meta away from completing before I'm back to this, but a 2,000ft summary from my skim so far:

I had misunderstood Pine's post, as it was colored by my guess that kuribo had some kind of PGO/Bomb-like ability given his D1 play.

While I'm extremely annoyed at Croag, there is just no way she's scum in this game.

The doc hood should never act. I applaud you guys' discretion and ask that you continue to be a caffeine buffer. I doubt you guys are all town, though.

My hood does not necessarily have four people in it.

Marquis hood has substantially positive synergy with my hood, whose nature we're not going to further discuss. We will probably send an ambassador somewhere down the road.

[Kagami]

I'm annoyed at your lack of punctuation.

[Kagami]

O, I see croag literally posted that we are a hood of 4. Lovely.

In any case, but our hood is off limits to town-aligned kills. The hood is fair game to varying extents starting tomorrow.

[Kagami]

O good, we still haven't finished the hunt and I was worried I'd have to break to defend myself.

Yes, if chandra is scum, which looks to be pretty certain, then they know literally everything about us.

[Kagami]

VOTE: chandra

Oo, I get the best spot too.

[Kagami]

And hilariously, what might have been a really silly mistake by one of us could work out quite well depending on ceph's flip.

[Kagami]

We have confirmation that there's literally no way he could have known that right? I've been heavily skimming for a while now.

[Kagami]

Me neither.

As you guys probably should have guessed, we're cops of random sanities.

Three of us acted, and thus became caffeinated. Croag neglected to act because she's too cool to submit investigations.

Unfortunately, absolutely none of our investigations so far will ever be useful. Penguin investigated pops for heaven knows what reason, and I investigated Fish, who was killed. Both of those investigation came back Town, so PP and I are naive / insane.

Ceph claims to have investigated Gork and gotten guilty. We don't know if he's telling the truth and it doesn't matter. Ceph and Croag are paranoid/sane.

[Kagami]

This means also that Fish's killer is the only other caffeinated player.

[Kagami]

If I'm wrong about the above because one of you made a mistake, btw, don't correct me for obvious reasons. If I'm wrong because I made a mistake, then please do.

[Kagami]

I should say, cops of unknown sanity. Like the doc hood, we know there's one of each.

[Kagami]

You can imagine how I felt as all these exciting investigations came trickling in.

[Kagami]

And I'm also confirming Penguin's statement with regard to the fact that Jenna Otter is a good-for-nothing trollop. I'm glad he agrees so we can put that behind us.

[Kagami]

If ceph is paranoid, I'm not sure how scum recovers from this.

[Kagami]

doesn't matter, he's paranoid or sane.

[Kagami]

We had arranged a code to communicate to each other in our first posts of the day. There was no discussion of targets overnight, everything was communicated in the open.

The first letter of the post indicated the target, the final punctuation indicated the result.

[Kagami]

I have no idea what you're even talking about re:slips.

I know ceph is paranoid or sane because PP and I got innos on players that should investigate Mafia. Thus PP and I are Naive and insane, leaving Ceph and croag as Paranoid and Sane.

I know ceph's claim for the same reason I know everyone else's action.

[Kagami]

Hang on, I'll get the letters. It was actually Ceph who had come up with the code >.>

[Kagami]

E ofrhz
P PenguinPower
G Croag
O Pine
S Kagami
D Bingle
T Day One Lynch
F Vecna
L Fish Monger
M JJD
R chennisgork
A Marquis
H pops
N Kuribo
B Chandra
C FL

[Kagami]

Pops, it would be stupid to do it in any way that's remotely guessable.

[Kagami]

I thought pops is miller hood...

[Kagami]

am I crazy?

[Kagami]

And for heavens sake, apply some critical thought. I'm not making it up. There are two players who can confirm everything I said, including PP who already didn't contradict it.

[Kagami]

btw, the punctuation is . for inno, ? for guilty, ! for roleblocked, and nothing for "something strange happened."

You can rewind and watch me facepalm when it's obvious croag didn't act.

[Kagami]

(punctuation of the final sentence)

[Kagami]

You're right about something, though. I should have kept quiet.

And it's another chapter in the story of how senseless questioning is wildly antitown.

[Kagami]

That's what I thought, but I was wrong T_T

[Kagami]

Had I not revealed the code, you would not have correctly pointed out that PP targeted D1L, not yourself.

I had made a mistake and missed PP's first post, which he would have set me straight on tonight and no one would have been the wiser.

Which means I'm also wrong about my inferences on cop sanities. I'm still necessary insane or naive, but PP can be anything, and thus so can the others.

[Kagami]

No, we're constant.

[Kagami]

Ok, no, you're right and it's obviously too late for kagamis. Scumteam would have gotten things correct.

[Kagami]

eh, seemed unnecessary and involves typing.

Croag's iso mentions gork is 50% to be scum, which makes no sense outside of Croag having Ceph's claim.

[Kagami]

We can definitely assume Chandra lied, but that still makes it 5 players on caffeine and not 4!

He could have lied in some capacity, but I doubt it. I would bet my left pigtail that Ceph did act and probably did get guilty on gork/chennis.

If he completely made up a result, he could have gotten trapped late game as it gets revealed exactly what sanity he is. He probably also expected to be a useless sanity (paranoid) for balance reasons, so I doubt he cares about truthfully telling telling us his result.

And he certainly didn't holster, as then he'd potentially be caught in the lie of having acted due to the caffeine count, when there absolutely no reason not to.

The Marquis hood is just full of lying liars.

[Kagami]

Umm, no?

Chennis, mafia isn't about lynching all liars, or calling everything you don't understand "scummy," as seems to be your approach so far.

It's about diving the intent behind other players' actions, which in a closed, role-heavy setup can often mean not being entirely truthful, while doing so with clear pro-town purpose.

[Kagami]

Well, you see, JJJ. Mafia is a game where there are good guys and bad guys. The good guys are often called "Town," and the bad guys are called "Mafia."

Some of the good guys and bad guys have super powers, that we call "Roles."

When you play a game of mafia, there is a special guy who like the God of the game, who is called the "Mod." He should have sent you a PM telling you your alignment and role. He sent me one too.

He might have sent you one saying you are a Doctor of Unknown Sanity, which is a very complicated and unusual role. He sent me one that says I am a Cop of Unknown Sanity. A Cop is a really powerful sort of mafia superpower that lets you ask the "mod" what the alignment of another player is every night, and normally he or she will give you an accurate answer.

The unknown sanity part means is that I can be Sane, Insane, Naive, or Paranoid, just like in your role PM! This means that sometimes the mod will not give me an accurate answer. If I am Insane, I will get the opposite alignment. If I am Naive, I will get "Town" no matter what. If I am Paranoid, I will get "Mafia" no matter what.

Cephrir, who is aligned with the Mafia, was given the same role as I have! Because he is mafia, he will try to pretend he is not mafia to fool the Town. That means that he needs to pretend to investigate someone just like I did. Because of the special "caffeine" mechanic in this game, and because of the possibility that he is "Tracked," he would probably ~actually~ act in an effort to appear to be Town aligned, and truthfully claim who he investigated.

There's no way for us to be certain what his result really is, but if he lies and says the opposite, it's possible that we will discover that he's a lying liar later as the different cop sanities become clear. Thus, he is very likely to be telling the truth.

Because it is possible that he's insane or paranoid, it is possible that the "Mod" would tell him that the person he investigated is Mafia, even if that person isn't!

Does that clear it up for you?

[Kagami]

JJD, people who are town aligned are lying. It's very unlikely that ceph is lying UNLESS he has a modifier that he can't be caffeinated or something like that.

[Kagami]

I have a pet theory that the bats die of being targeted, and that I might have killed Fish.

Seems farfetched, but I do agree with the notion that the caffeine doesn't add up.

[Kagami]

k pops, do you want to wait for Croag, or can we just end the day? I want to get back to puzzles.

[Kagami]

Shooting croag is a horrible idea no matter what.

[Kagami]

Shooting croag is a horrible idea no matter what.

Why?

Because she's very, very probably town, and quite possibly a valid cop?

[Kagami]

O, I hadn't mentioned it before, but we flip with our sanities revealed.

[Kagami]

o sorry, misunderstood you pops. Yes, croag is reasonably likely to be shot tonight =\

[Kagami]

Pops, don't let the paranoia bug bite you so hard. I am town if not obviously so. Two flipped scum is a very good start for d3, and scum are 50% to have to kill me soon anyway.

[Kagami]

...

Town shot a cop.

...

Just to emphasize how terrible this was, I would have had an innocent on orzhfdsfds that day.

[Kagami]

I don't think there's much you could have done, JJD. You "knew" that Bingle was scum, and you had an innocent on you. It was obviously suboptimal to lynch you.

You maybe should have dug up the Ceph-You interactions, or Bingle-scum interactions to support your case, but I doubt that would have made a difference at that point. It should have been reasonably clear that lynching the "scum cop" was strictly better than lynching you (as croag correctly argued) and that there was obvious scum motivation in pursuing you first.

The reason the final Day went like it did is that Town was totally and utterly fatigued. I don't think there's really much that could be done other than trying to address the fatigue directly. People were set in their opinions, even with a cop inno on you, and needed to be shaken up.

[Kagami]

You maybe should have dug up the Ceph-You interactions, or Bingle-scum interactions to support your case, but I doubt that would have made a difference at that point. It should have been reasonably clear that lynching the "scum cop" was strictly better than lynching you (as croag correctly argued) and that there was obvious scum motivation in pursuing you first.

This is mechanically wrong, btw.

With the assumption of 2 scum, JJD was always the correct lynch. He could theoretically have been scum with either cop. Lynching him first means the cop has to choose who to kill before the 1v1, and town has more information when making the choice.

Lynching a town cop resulted in a scumwin in more cases than lynching a town JJD.

It just so happened that we were actually in LYLO and it didn't matter who I lynched, but town Jingle always argues the optimal lynch there and vecna would have caught on if I hadn't.

Why is Marquis + cop less likely than JJD + the less scummy cop on a 4-man team?

[Kagami]

(any mislynch is a loss on 4-man team anyway)

[Kagami]

And if it's 3-man, JJD is wrong every time, whereas scum cop is correct.

[Kagami]

Why is Marquis + cop less likely than JJD + the less scummy cop on a 4-man team?

Oh right, you think shooting a scumbuddy as scum vig is a viable choice.

I think it's an excellent choice! He would have won this game handily, wouldn't he?

Normally, people wonder why you are living so long, but wait, you're caffeinated and all your subsequent shots are terrible.

Maybe you'd be worried the gig is up if you get investigated, but wait, you're ascetic.

If Marquis were a scum vig, it would almost be silly ~not~ to shoot his most scumread buddy N1.