Alisae V Pine: Trees Apparently Make Good Treestumps

[popsofctown]

VOTE: Menalque Pine would have provided less reasoning if he was wifoming the other direction, that's my leaning

[popsofctown]

We should leash the mechanic by nominating one person to select the fruit, then forbid any future requests for that fruit for the rest of the day on threat of lynch. That forces Pine to grant the request to that person, or lose the fruit.

If the game is too rambunctious to leash the mechanic, we should at least look negatively on second and third requests for the same fruit. It's WIFOM whether those are scum requests for fruit or whether Pine refuses or grants based on the alignment of the player and all that, but we should assume Pine does better when given more choices and therefore we should limit his choices.

[popsofctown]

Firebringer plays mafia a certain type of way.
VOTE: Firebringer

pedit:
uh
last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.

His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!"

If scumclaiming isn't out of his scumrange, this isn't either? And the list looks too well balanced and curated for him to come up with in 12 minutes.

[popsofctown]

unvote

Limes never appear in Yoshi's Story, Paper Mario, or Mario Sunshine.

[popsofctown]

Don't quick google search.

Play Yoshi's Story, Paper Mario, and Mario Sunshine to completion.

They are good games.

[popsofctown]

Pops are there any vidja games you don't play to completion?

I abandon quite a few games before completion if they're not worth my time but we're supposed to not spampost the 27p. I'm trying to be good.

[popsofctown]

My feelings are hurt because I like you a

whole

lot back. But you should probably give us your reads instead of this.

[popsofctown]

If we condemn town for asking for fruit, then scum can get the powers. I realize I'm going solo on this, but y'all are gonna have to policy lynch me to keep me from asking for fruit. Hate me, I don't care.

@Pine - what does the fruit do?

Oh noes, I can't join LLD on xoflynch because I'm going to be too busy policy lynching Chickadee

If we condemn town for asking for fruit, then scum can get the powers. I realize I'm going solo on this, but y'all are gonna have to policy lynch me to keep me from asking for fruit. Hate me, I don't care.

@Pine - what does the fruit do?

Why would scum get the powers?

Also, it will be less of a policy lynch, more of a "You are acting against the interests of town and refusing to see sense which indicates that you are scum" lynch. Which is really just a regular lynch

There's no way to tell if it's true, but Pine did say if no one asks, he get's to choose who to give it to. I'm not willing to take that chance.

And As I get them, I'll be giving input on reads, and playing the game. So I'm not acting against the interests of town. FB already summarized why it would be a policy lynch. So I'm not gonna go on and on about this point.

What's your counterargument for having Alisae select a player to ask, and having only that player ask?

Anyone who is townreading me gives me the willies

Nothing I've done so far is significantly AI

May I scumread you though?

Legit I feel like Firebringer is just town???

Man, Firebringer is a lot easier to read when I'm scum. But I

think

so.



@Mastina vig is a beautiful role and if you're town I want you to change your ways and shoot all the scums.
Think about glory.
And win%.

[popsofctown]

I don't really have a counterargument. I just want fruit. I know I'm town and that's good enough for me. I'm not here to be liked. I'm here to drown in a huge game, and god damn if I'm gonna drown and be miserable, I'm gonna eat fruit.

I don't dislike the plan of Ali suggesting fruit bargainers, but there's nothing to say Pine has to go for anyone Ali suggests. And Ali doesn't have all the answers anyway.

You're using rational logic instead of superrational logic.

"There's 100 free newspapers, the sign says Take One, about fifty people will be interested today. I can take 3 extra for my kids to make paper airplanes today and there will still be plenty for everyone"
"If only I throw this plastic bag in the ocean, I won't extinct the cute dolphins, I just assume not everyone else will."


If every town aligned player adopts your approach, then every single player asks for fruit, and Pine gets to select whoever he wants, and asking for fruit in no way increases the odds a town aligned player gets a fruit, because now it's become an acceptble strategy for a scum player to ask for fruit, because everyone asks for fruit.

I think Ali can develop a townread better than flat unaltered odds.

Your approach to the game comes off kind of selfish and self-centered.

[popsofctown]

Having a single player ask for it then having Pine be able wifom on granting that player the fruit or throwing it away still qualifies as "leash resistant".

Pine is trying to scare us into thinking it's even more leash resistant than that, but this game went into the queue saying the only bastard mechanic was team selection, so there's little perceptible way it can be.

[popsofctown]

VOTE: Chickadee

[popsofctown]

Two of those I'm very sure won't flip scum

One of those will probably flip scum but irritates me less than Chickadee and quacks a lot.

[popsofctown]

Chickadee take the fruit

[popsofctown]

either pronoun is fine

[popsofctown]

Chickadee take the fruit

Why?

It minimizes Pine's agency.

Pine is the bad guy.

That's confirmed to you in the thread.

This works even in your straightforward "being town and getting something good is enough for me" worldview

take away choices from the bad man

[popsofctown]

Can I like actually win a scumgame before I get upgraded to paranoia scum tier

Guns and Roses 2 was a 1 mislynch game, it can't count.

[popsofctown]

VOTE: the worst

[popsofctown]

Spoiler: Firebringer townslip

I edited these to post in here:

The fruit are- 7 of them

Watermelon - This fruit makes the user bulletproof for a night but also makes it so they take one less vote to lynch (they aren't informed of this)
Red Apple - This fruit allows a player to use a one shot tracker at night. The downside is that scum will know who you visited. (aren't informed of this)
Banana - This fruit gives user double voting power when eaten. It also tells scum what role they are when eaten. (arent informed of this)
Grapes - This fruit is the informed mechanic. It basically informs the player to what roles aren't present in the game. Pine doesn't want this released to give them freedom in fake claiming
Black Apple - This fruit allows a player to give it to another and kill that player. Pine will probably use this for someone he knows will misfire.
Lime - Tastes bad. Fruit gives you ability to multitask.

This post is a townslip for Firebringer.

Both town Firebringer and scum Firebringer would create this list in an effort to look scummy. That is the way Firebringer plays mafia or something. I don't know.

But only townFirebringer would produce this list, because scumFirebringer would have consulted the scum PT. Would he have faked them or listed them totally inaccurately? I don't know. There is really no telling. His thought processes are literally made of magma.
But whether the list was genuine or fake, they'd be produced conscious of what was in the scum PT. He'd either make all of their flavor correct, or make none of the flavor correct. That's not my assumption based on me expecting scum!Firebringer to go through dramatic machinations to fool us, just what I think would be more cognitively convenient.

But this list is partially aligned with the likely images in the scum PT rather than fully disjoint or fully aligned. Yoshi's Story images would have been the easiest to obtain (we have one already), and it includes a Red Apple, Banana, Watermelon, and Grapes. I checked more carefully for Black Apple, but there's no Black Apples or Limes out there in any of the source games.

Particularly clinching is that Firebringer used the terms "Banana" and "Grapes". The sprite for bananas in Yoshi's Story depicts a bunch of three bananas, rather than just one. And "Grapes" shows he was not just blindly singularizing all of the items. He would have been more likely to say "Bananas"

At the end of the list, he has run out of creativity and used "apple" again, choosing a recolor. It's doubtful Jingle had to resort to any recolors, which would only be applicable for some of the berries in Paper Mario, so recolored fruit wouldn't be on his mind after looking in the PT. It's also doubtful that -even if- Firebringer decided "I'm going to make a list of seven fruits but I'll make some up and some will be real", that he would run out of ideas and need to resort to a recolor. He would have a five fruit head start because at least five of these were really visible in the PT. It is much more difficult if I give you seven minutes to name seven Presidents than it is if I give you seven minutes to name seven Presidents other than Abraham Lincoln, Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, Thomas Jefferson, and Rutherford B. Hayes.

This is probably my strongest townread in the game right now, I have a couple others. Firebringer has also been behaving protown in a couple other ways.

[popsofctown]

I don't think we need 15ish more claims about getting messages from Pine that may have been written pregame unless you get something somehow alignment indicative.

We are not lynching mastina we are gonna take Jingle's attempt at a prank by giving Mastina a role and leash it so that it is converted into clean hot win %.
And then the joke will be on him.

Mastina please do what chennisden does with respect to your masonry PT.

Then start posting unofficial votecounts on your vigging as your second lunch

I vote for uh
Menalque

If this gets me banned from the next pine v alisae for trying too hard to break this one

So be it

I have a deep intimate thought

That I shared with my friend

About trying your best


"If nobody is booing you

You aren't trying hard enough"

I live my life by those words


This has been drunkpops

[popsofctown]

my Pine message talks to me like I'm unaligned w Pine

Does worst scumslip as town for fun?

Spoiler: mastina vig leash VC

Menalque (1) - popsofctown
Not voting: Firebringer, MariaR, Gamma Emerald, mastina, DrippingGoofball, Lady Lambdadelta, chennisden, popsofctown, ankamius, Krazy, xofelf, UntrodTripod, PenguinPower, the worst, GreyICE, Aristophanes, Jjh927, Chickadee, Skygazer, Formerfish, Iconeum, Pink Ball, Dannflor, Katsuki, Menalque, Alisaex2

[popsofctown]

I'm quite fine with that too, but I suspected mastina would prefer democracy.

[popsofctown]

holy fucking shit this is so many pages

I got a message from the mod saying that they wanted to mislynch me, so I'm guessing it was from scum? scum message sender is a hilarious fucking role.

it was from pine
you are most likely town tbh

I was honestly kind of offended Pine didn't draft me

I'm also offended that Pine didn't draft me. It hurt me more when he lied in this thread and in my letter claiming he tried to draft me. I wish I was fruit IRL so he would have to be a real conifer who had the cones to tell it to me straight to my face instead of gaslighting me.

[popsofctown]

I find LLD's posts scummy in the sense that she seems uncomfortable not having control of the game. Both town!LLD and scum!LLD will dislike that but scum!LLD is the one that has less access to just letting the town drive a mislynch wagon off the bridge and taking control afterwards. MariaR's thought process is somewhat of a foil in that sense.

VOTE: Ankamius
Her pop-ins have not seemed very town-motivated to me, and her rapid transitioning from "Jingle doesn't give mastina vig" to "yes let's leash the vig I don't need to use hypotheticals to write this sentence" is potentially a scumslip.
Asking DGB for reads is meh. I can't understand having two lungs and a heart and wanting DGB to do a task you assigned to her rather than wanting DGB to do whatever DGB was initially inclined to do.
Bothering chennisden about townreading her seemed LAMIST.
Spotlighting my slot seems more like an effigy of townplay rather than townplay. popsofctown's stealth stat is zero. She knows I'm not going to stealth bomb this game. And her conclusions are contradictory, Firebringer's townread can't be valid because there's not enough data yet. Ok.. then there's not enough data yet to make me the topic of the next TED talk, so why do that?


I'm less inclined to lynch Menalque because regardless of his alignment Pine probably wants us to pay attention to him. I get pings both ways on the slot.

[popsofctown]

I feel like pops should know better than to scumread me for those reasons but I'm not 100% sure on that (?)

I mean after the zeroth game of trying to read you without your alignment in my role PM, I still hadn't gotten the hang of how to read you yet, but somewhere between the zeroth and the zeroth game of reading your day 1 play I started picking up some of the patterns. Not everything, bits and pieces. But ever since the zeroth game, I've got your number witch, I can read you like a comic sans Neopets popup ad, and you should probably just selfvote in your opening post when you roll scum so you don't out your partners.

[popsofctown]

Krazy is the only proddable player, he might replace out.

[popsofctown]

I dont like his early vote on FB, and dislike everyones draft wifom about not being picked. Feel like he has been doing a whole lot of nothing, and the mastina idea could have legs that Pine would take Ari because people think he wont do it again. Also that scum pt slip was obvi fake and why?

I feel like the PT slip might be real


I don't really have a problem becoming gullible to scumclaim slips since I don't really see how that could be exploited against me very well.

[popsofctown]

I wanna dance

[popsofctown]

Leading is not about surprising the follow.

That is the opposite of what it's about.

[popsofctown]

"I will get everyone but pops' address information and order each of them a free pizza, cookie, or doordash salad so long as pops' win condition is met this game" Jingle 100% put this in my role PM verbatim and this is a hardclaim.

[popsofctown]

It might be optimal for us to lynch people who can't find anything they're interested in within that inclusive list of treats that I made up I mean that Jingle PMed me.

Is anyone on a seafood diet?

[popsofctown]

No Aristophanes it does not. Because I am pretty sure if you saw any of those three items you would eat it, but none of it came from the sea.


The sea is where Penguin Power came from. Do you understand yet?

[popsofctown]

Also, I definitely prefer lategame when I can go back and read over a game's worth of stuff. I like data mining once the pool is limited. When there are so many I really don't do much.

One of these days

I want to see a player

that player that says

"You know what guys

this is my meta

lynch me early if you lynch me at all

I'm useless late

also

I'm humble enough to admit

that as I accumulate information over the course of a longer game

my own personal multiplier on that information
crap
boosha
bantha pudu
I'm still roughly same as day 1
Just letting you know so that can feed into your strategy
"

Actually

I will be the one
I think my reads are at their best day 1
mathematically I think my red-lynch rate is probably highest on early days, as a function of "easy" scum being dead and unavailable on later days. We do have data showing that for the general population, later days having more accurate lynching is the case, that's my hearsay. Also I have not scientifically gone through my own data so I don't have a reliable basis to go against that as the null hypothesis for my own play

but the point of this post is. I know friends woodland creatures, stars, ducks who are secretly newbies, camera accessories that have yet to be stepped upon, I am taking a while to get to my point
I think numerous cognitive biases feed into people disproportionately describing themselves as lategame players.

[popsofctown]

I meant to sign that drunkpops

IDK if I should sign my drunkposts like that actually, who knows.

I'd appreciate if MariaR signed her posts even though she's not in a hydra because I somehow am having trouble accepting her as a blonde

[popsofctown]

I think my reads are at their best day 1

hey I think the same

I get inside my own head too much later in the game

That's not actually humble
You are the protagonist and antagonist of this film
Still narcissistic cognitive biases
it's ok though we all have them though

[popsofctown]

Ank, on the other hand, has just doubled down and isn't displaying any of the uncertainty I would expect from town, especially someone who apparently got to a SR on me based on my entire play of 3 posts at the time that happened.

I think Ank kind of jumps directly from one certainty to another, and then doesn't diminish any of her certainties unless the facts have gotten bad enough she feels it's time to discard it for an entirely different certainty. Or something like that. I don't know. Ank is kind of special sometimes.

I don't really like Menalque's reasons for scumreading Ank.

[popsofctown]

Isn't that kind of what I said?

[popsofctown]

Well, but less

[popsofctown]

In that case maybe Menalque has a point.

At a minimum it seems like you care about him too much.

[popsofctown]

Don't rolefish. Rolestopping a 1-shot neighborizer isn't particularly exciting but it's generally going to be the case that telegraphing the targeting of an action gives scum somewhere between zero and minimal benefit and gives us no benefit aside from the "benefit" of topic shifting away from my beautiful 25% better than rand vanity wagon.

There's bizarre marginal ways to attempt to generate a role interaction that gives neighborizer more utility, but Chickadee's playstyle seems like the type that would get pretty high value out of a neighborhood so I expect she's going to use it for its jam session crash space effect and be correct for doing so.

pedit: you're not fucking leashing a 1-shot neighborizer what planet are you living on FF?

[popsofctown]

No, stop. Chickadee. Don't do that.
Give him this list of names.

Spoiler: list

Firebringer
MariaR
Gamma Emerald
mastina
DrippingGoofball
Lady Lambdadelta
chennisden
popsofctown
ankamius
Krazy
xofelf
UntrodTripod
PenguinPower
the worst
GreyICE
Aristophanes
Jjh927
Skygazer
Formerfish
Iconeum
Pink Ball
Dannflor
Katsuki
Menalque

Why would you want the scumteam to know your target pool just so the townteam can know your target pool? The townteam can do nothing with that information besides derail the thread. The scumteam can shoot people in your pool.

[popsofctown]

Also I missed this in your post but as honoured as I am being placed next to my lord Pine, why exactly am I there on your list chikadee?

Isn't that irrelevant the post before you get modkilled?

[popsofctown]

Formerfish is rope going to be the only way to keep you from rolefishing the entire large theme

[popsofctown]

I'm using terms loosely, it's not rolefishing. It's similar to rolefishing in that he's collecting nightplay information with little perceptible town upside and perceptible scum upside.

[popsofctown]

Yeah I'll dance with you.

[popsofctown]

I'll follow

[popsofctown]

Ank is scum, that's my vanity wagon.

LLD is scum, but not the sort I want to immediately lynch. Maybe I should have that stance for LLD, but I don't. LLD is a powerscummer and if we do actually have town LLD she can identify powerscumming and spotlight control takes-one-to-know-one style which can be a big deal in a large. Her own ability to manipulate the gamestate is going to mitigated to whatever extent she's distrusted, going the other way.
She's scum just because xofelf as the day1 post1 play is bad circumstantially. Like it might be genuine town LLD who happened upon this strong read and it's just unlucky, but it seems too aligned with scum!LLD's natural incentives going into the large.
Ari is scum. He's posted too much without giving me something resonant. That's admittedly pretty weak for 3rd place on page 46 of a 25p. I just like all you guys.

[popsofctown]

Firebringer is town. I believe in slips.

Gamma Emerald is town. His thought on MariaR was really resonant. I think maybe he did something else good that I forgot.

My notes PT says Dannflor is town but I'm still not sure if me and my notes PT believe it. He seems willing to go after some small victories which is what accelerating a day1 into a positive gamestate is all about. Other people are trying to figure out fruit in its entirety or make sure they have voted and are on a wagon and are proud of that wagon, best exemplified by PP's scummy posting of the not-voting portion of the votecount, which is a little too survivalistic.

[popsofctown]

Was breaking it up into 2 posts gotta make sure both Alisae and Pine ban me from the next game.

I think maybe I can find a way to get banned by Jingle too? But that's really hard.

[popsofctown]

ringfinger sheeping GreyICE onto an LLD wagon seems like the least informative lynch I'd have ever seen, I will double down on the slot being scummy and still not ideal compared to an equally scummy (or even slightly less scummy) slot

[popsofctown]

SNIP
Ari is scum. He's posted too much without giving me something resonant. That's admittedly pretty weak for 3rd place on page 46 of a 25p. I just like all you guys.

> "I townread everyone because I love you all"
> "I scumread Ari"

*eyes emoji*

</3

Basically everyone in this invitational with whom I have played at least 1 mafia game was fun to play with, so I have a concern that impairs my ability to scumread each such player (even in, if not especially in, the case of Ankamius where my concern about it might have wrapped all the way back around to overcompensation, like a movie that is so not funny it is funny. or something.)

If I have played a mafia game with you, it was before site hiatus and I don't remember. Some amount of avatar changing may have shaken the scent.

I've read your speasy posting and some of it is pleasant but that's not the same as having played a game with someone before

[popsofctown]

Pops, did you get tired? Did i step on your toes?

Your worst thing was weird.

w's reasons seemed intuitive before he'd even posted. I'd expect you to cite a measuring-stick player that he took the time to greet that has less history with him than you do but there doesn't seem to be one?


Why do you want to dance with me? It doesn't feel like you're trying to sort me.

[popsofctown]

Have jjh's more recent posts changed your opinion on jjh, LLD? I found his early steps towards breaking the setup town indicative but he hasn't given me reasons to WK the slot as he's gained detractors on page 5+

[popsofctown]

Lynching LLD because she's good at scum is gross. That's not playing to wincon.

[popsofctown]

Lynching LLD because she's good at scum is gross. That's not playing to wincon.

that'd be a stronger argument in games where alignment is randomly decided

but overall that's not what anyone is saying anyway. they're saying she's harder to read because she's a good player

what's gross is this argument, congratulations on taking your town read and burning it

This is narrowly about Katsuki making up an Xbox Live Achievement worth 13 Gamerscore for lynching LLD in a day 1.

[popsofctown]

[popsofctown]

If we have a bulletproof vig, a Mafia Commuter is basically a traitor.

[popsofctown]

Well I guess if she's scum she's BP ascetic so that doesn't matter. Hrm.

[popsofctown]

mastina wouldn't lie to me, that would be hurtful
she's cool

[popsofctown]

I don't think mastina and LLD can both be town and bulletproof. That seems like a 1v1.

[popsofctown]

I trust mastina over Pine.

[popsofctown]

I like Pine. And LLD.

[popsofctown]

Ask LLD not to commute tonight.

Chickadee + any other useless verifiable roles target her.

If successful LLd is confirmed to be commuter, which is obtuse compared to a cleaner Ascetic BP design for mafia and is a strong indicator she is town. Neighborizer is a worthless ability so nothing is lost aside from lynch sequencing.

[popsofctown]

1277 is a mean post and I would really enjoy a game where LLD went with me to lylo

[popsofctown]

Vigging LLD and having a real lynch today is indeed better EV than mislynching her, and I think it's a mislynch

[popsofctown]

Vigging LLD and having a real lynch today is indeed better EV than mislynching her, and I think it's a mislynch

If LLD is a mislynch then what wagon was she the counter to?

I don't know. That's not usually way I think about mafia. Since it's not guaranteed to be a valid model all the time, I don't see a reason to adopt this model either.

Pedit: it's called false dilemma

[popsofctown]

It tells us she is a commuter exactly. Her initial claim risked a universe where motion detector hard guilties her and bugs can shoot her for options select.

[popsofctown]

Vigilantes not bugs obviously

[popsofctown]

2. If 1 of the established wagons was seeing some gain in traction and then you suddenly jump to the head of the class for the lynch today I would like to see where and why that happened exactly.

Krazy is scumsiding, possibly as town. There's not always a conspiracy

[popsofctown]

Just for the record:

If Chickadee successfully neighbourised LLD, it would prove that LLD was targetable N1.
It would not prove anything else to do with LLD's claim.
Also, commuter can definitely be scum.

A commuter is possibly scum but it's unlikely. They have to be given a multiacting modifier just in case they need to use fruit, which is awkward, when the only upside is to allow the mafia godfather to not be a godfather if she likes, which is silly.

That piles on top of skepticism for LLD having a godfatheresque role at all. It's like.. designing a setup that reenacts mountainous LLD mafia games. Jingle wouldn't do something so boring. If there's a godfather it's Menalque or xofelf or something

[popsofctown]

Just for the record:

If Chickadee successfully neighbourised LLD, it would prove that LLD was targetable N1.
It would not prove anything else to do with LLD's claim.
Also, commuter can definitely be scum.

A commuter is possibly scum but it's unlikely. They have to be given a multiacting modifier just in case they need to use fruit, which is awkward, when the only upside is to allow the mafia godfather to not be a godfather if she likes, which is silly.

That piles on top of skepticism for LLD having a godfatheresque role at all. It's like.. designing a setup that reenacts mountainous LLD mafia games. Jingle wouldn't do something so boring. If there's a godfather it's Menalque or xofelf or something

You mean it's a balanced role with upsides and downsides for scum, put on a player who claims she is never lynched in a game of mafia and only loses as scum to night actions?

Commuter LLD can get roleblocked and copped the same night and bitch about night actions.

That's why jingle goes Ascetic if he wants to tell this kind of joke

[popsofctown]

Oh

[popsofctown]

My guess at LLD's alignment does shift a lot of percentage points on whether Jingle or Pine distributed PRs.

[popsofctown]

Ok u guys know this game has an alisae masonry and no one can fakeclaim Mason period, you only draw out cc from a treestump

[popsofctown]

@

Jingle

how were scum PRs distributed?

[popsofctown]

@

Jingle

how were scum PRs distributed?

This game features non random Role Distribution. I chose who would be town power roles (With the exception of the masonry), ostensibly to give town the best chance possible. (I was more concerned about fun. Deal with it.) Scum had their power roles assigned by Pine. The scum team was decided via a draft with Pine.

Oof

[popsofctown]

My mechanics concern is inverted, if godfatheresque is in the game I think pine gives it to LLD most of the time, where on Jingles distro she doesn't get to have it because someone like Menalque does.

I'm seeing posts from myself about why LLD doesn't look great this game.
VOTE: Lady Lambda Delta
Scum!LLD interacted with me very very little last game, and she didn't interact with me much this game either. I don't actually know why, but she NKed me before interaction would ever happen.

That's been another concern of mine. There's some possibility that she just didn't happen to interact with me really cause it's a large. Or she just doesn't like me and would never interact with me regardless of alignment.
But eh.

[popsofctown]

Good luck to former fish

[popsofctown]

I hugged my cats on the understanding the Pine's instruction was orthogonal from his wincon.

MariaR, why has your experience this game been that it's boring? In terms of the actual mafia I've found lots of convincing reasoning every other page or so. I feel like there are multiple slots that moved red or green and then shifted back to null later, on which can make the game directionless but that's not the same as boring if I got to step through that process. You've stated you find town less boring and that lines up with how you played in Role Call I so maybe if I can understand what interests you most in mafia it can help me read you.

Please construe this post as an attempt to fight you so that your avatar reverts.

[popsofctown]

I hugged my cats on the understanding the Pine's instruction was orthogonal from his wincon.

MariaR, why has your experience this game been that it's boring? In terms of the actual mafia I've found lots of convincing reasoning every other page or so. I feel like there are multiple slots that moved red or green and then shifted back to null later, on which can make the game directionless but that's not the same as boring if I got to step through that process. You've stated you find town less boring and that lines up with how you played in Role Call I so maybe if I can understand what interests you most in mafia it can help me read you.

Please construe this post as an attempt to fight you so that your avatar reverts.

What reads of yours have been changing recently? Nothing has really changed my standpoint much. The only thing that really came up was the LLD stuff but Alisae foreshadowed that to me so I just watched it play out for my own way of figuring stuff out. I like bouncing ideas or having my stuff challenged and right now it's not happening. I see no reason to go full Maria avi tryhard right now because I don't have much I see challenged. If someone wants to start it up by all means. Of course, I could try and do some more reaction tests on people to gather my own logic, but I don't see a need to do that right now when the game isn't in a state that it's mandatory to test.

I REALLY like the avatar Maria had before she changed it
and I mean really liked it
It actually spoke to me and said
"Hi, I am MariaR. Look at me, I'm so happy weeeeeeeee :3"
it was great

I love that avi! I'm using it for a dif site but I t was so happy and outgoing that it made me want to do more playful posting when I don't want to do that right now.

jjh ^, tw V, GE ^, chennisden ^

[popsofctown]

I hugged my cats on the understanding the Pine's instruction was orthogonal from his wincon.

MariaR, why has your experience this game been that it's boring? In terms of the actual mafia I've found lots of convincing reasoning every other page or so. I feel like there are multiple slots that moved red or green and then shifted back to null later, on which can make the game directionless but that's not the same as boring if I got to step through that process. You've stated you find town less boring and that lines up with how you played in Role Call I so maybe if I can understand what interests you most in mafia it can help me read you.

Please construe this post as an attempt to fight you so that your avatar reverts.

What reads of yours have been changing recently? Nothing has really changed my standpoint much. The only thing that really came up was the LLD stuff but Alisae foreshadowed that to me so I just watched it play out for my own way of figuring stuff out. I like bouncing ideas or having my stuff challenged and right now it's not happening. I see no reason to go full Maria avi tryhard right now because I don't have much I see challenged. If someone wants to start it up by all means. Of course, I could try and do some more reaction tests on people to gather my own logic, but I don't see a need to do that right now when the game isn't in a state that it's mandatory to test.

I REALLY like the avatar Maria had before she changed it
and I mean really liked it
It actually spoke to me and said
"Hi, I am MariaR. Look at me, I'm so happy weeeeeeeee :3"
it was great

I love that avi! I'm using it for a dif site but I t was so happy and outgoing that it made me want to do more playful posting when I don't want to do that right now.

jjh ^, tw V, GE ^, chennisden ^

I've had JJH as town all game so that's not very surprising to me. What made you start townreading him though. TW you could talk to me on. GE I haven't read mostly cause he's really easy and not interesting. Chen I've also been Villa reading.

uh the carats and V's are all supposed to represent the movements from null, that snapped back to null, though tw has probably passed through null. And maybe it's ok you interpreted it that way because I think movements away from null are probably more interesting.

tw's manner of dealing with Formerfish seemed at least a minor challenge to write as town. An attack that has little to no base is a temptation try to LAMIST as you pulverize it, drip "i'm scum but that's not why" pings into your subtext, or just complain about how your slot is being treated unequally to other slots (because, like, most slots, most game days, won't have to deal with something as unbased as Formerfish's debate.) Instead he like, spoilered as much of it as needed to be spoilered and refuted it rather clinically. But kicker he actually tried to reform, like, what Formerfish is actually spending time on, which is like the 4th dimension of protown, or something. He doesn't seem very concerned with looking better than FF in the exchange. When you roll red even the most empty attack can seem like an exchange it's possible to walk away from with a bruise.

To the extent that any of that is an act, he sold me on it.

[popsofctown]

Good job Ali!

[popsofctown]

Sounds like a once in a lifetime experience.

[popsofctown]

I just know you're going to adorn it with the kind of warm endearing messages that would just stop my heart.

[popsofctown]

omg that's too wholesome I can't even right now

[popsofctown]

#notketo

I appreciate that Gamma Emerald shares what games he's into lately, without any unwarranted proselytizing.

[popsofctown]

My first thought is google drive and share links, I think this makes your email address available to every recipient if you don't already have/go through the effort of making a gmail account that is throwaway and separate.

My second thought is upload it to youtube as a blackscreen youtube video, going to youtube's built in "edit together your own video" thingamajig I think it has now, but then only adding any audio to it and maybe the very first image you find on google images.

I am not sure to what extent such an obvious or sensible suggestion will follow mine or blow it out of the water.

[popsofctown]

I was going to start doing things but I feel like I should wait for a different page now

<3 love you PB, you have a big heart and I'll try not to break it no more

I also appreciate all the rest of the players in this game for well, being here and playing and being fun to interact with in many ways

unless you rolled scum, that's a defect of character

I was gonna tell dflor i laughed at his other post and that that was ironic but decided I'd have to full disclosure that it was a heavy-nose-sniff and kill the joy

But now I caught one of those laugh hiccups and I can't stop laughing

[popsofctown]

Is no one going to tell Formerfish about how he's good at standup

I laughed

It was better than any of my podcasts for my drive to work today

[popsofctown]

Yeah I was just about to ask Ank why she townreads that slot.

I doubt the letter thing was a scumslip, but it bothers me that that's UT's only contribution. And it bothers me he'll engage jjh to fend for his slot on that issue even if he has not read the thread, but hasn't skimmed into some actually protown thing to comment on at some point, even if he hasn't actually read the thread.

[popsofctown]

I'm uncertain why UT fell off everyone's radars.

I have no meta on UT and there are several slots overtly not participating. Even though UT is easily the most egregious such slot I was giving it a pass because it seemed others might know what his pro-town quota is better than I do, and how far off this is.

GreyICE implying he has a contrary meta makes the slot more concerning for me.

[popsofctown]

Oh no, UT has been a useless git in like 50% of the games I played with him. This is not "outside his meta".

It's just at some point losing to a player playing like that hurts more than losing to a player who is not sucking like a black hole.

Oh, unvote then. I'm also not in the market keeping certain people from winning. Play to your win condition.

[popsofctown]

Oh no, UT has been a useless git in like 50% of the games I played with him. This is not "outside his meta".

It's just at some point losing to a player playing like that hurts more than losing to a player who is not sucking like a black hole.

Oh, unvote then. I'm also not in the market keeping certain people from winning. Play to your win condition.

I'm still pretty sure Lexi is my win condition. I'm just NOT sure that UT is not also scum. And the fact is, he's been on site since 2003. He has seen bigger dick waving contests than this. He's seen games with ABR and Fate in them. He's seen games with Fate and Reaper Charlie in them. Hell, I'm positive that he's seen games with me, Reckoner, and Fate, back when we were all on hair triggers, and there were many who would throw in to the ring besides.

That specifically felt like an excuse. In a 20:7, any given player should have a 25% chance to flip scum. Pine knows that at a minimum UT won't wig out and give away scumbuddies, and he's adept at surviving, and he at least doesn't mind being scum. That moves him up to a 33%. This? This is starting to feel more like a 50%, and 50% is where I get very happy to pull the trigger - if we only do 50/50 lynches for the entire game, our win is practically assured.

Yes, this is a good post, I'm amenable to this kind of argument, not to "this type of loss is worse than another type of loss".
__________

My heart wants to unvote LLD but my head says I should see the slot lynched and I think this is one of the cases that I am going to choose my head though I think I usually don't.

[popsofctown]

Since this is singleball I'm thinking Mena's town, when he was scum he had a very particular feel to his posts and I'm not getting that here. Thinking of Micc's Pokemon game where I was on my Pikachu account and he replaced into scum.

Does that even count when it reads so absurdly fake though

[popsofctown]

Since this is singleball I'm thinking Mena's town, when he was scum he had a very particular feel to his posts and I'm not getting that here. Thinking of Micc's Pokemon game where I was on my Pikachu account and he replaced into scum.

Does that even count when it reads so absurdly fake though

Pops, you gotta trust me to do my thing here.

Have you ever seen My cousin vinny? Where he holds up fingers for the woman to see if her glasses were ok and the judge called out how many fingers were up before the woman could answer.

I am poking and prodding and I need a little space to do that.

@jingle why did katsuki get a post restriction instead of me
@jingle
@jingle
@bingle
@jingle

[popsofctown]

imo, everything she's done from the beginning of the game has been town motivated. #275 generates content out of almost nothing and is a good way to help move the game out of RVS.

How do you feel about LLD putting pressure on a slot that she clearly thought that Ali might be indicating that xof was a mason. LLD even went as far as kinda making an ultimatum to Ali that she tell us if xof is a mason to get LLD to pivot. It even got to the point where LLD points out thats what she was doing, and when she did it felt forced because of course thats what she was trying to do, but why? Why not just take Ali at her word for at least the first day and not suicide on xof!scum paranoia?

I don't think it's clear that LLD thought that, I think it's clear that LLD didn't think that regardless of alignment, because why on God's green earth does an LLD with a godfatheresque role try to fire sale all of her town standing to more fully out a mason she can just shoot, and why does town LLD push conftown.

Some players are obviously not super cognizant about the mason mechanic, see: someone at some point suggesting it'd be a good idea to claim mason.

I'd complain about you highlighting the soft but it's not as bad as the way you messed with Katsuki since I don't see that much chance scum missed it.

[popsofctown]

Uggh I'll do LLD next then in my Iso diving but srsly I'm not sold.

Have you read anything I said about the topic?

If so, what’s holding you back?

I've read every one of your posts I've come across, I just...they read town to me. The rage was legit, the push to figure xof out seemed legit. I like the jjh vote even if I skimmed that post from them tbh.

They just haven't struck me as scum.

I feel the same way, but LLD's scumrange on stuff like tone is worthy of an awful lot of respect. Which is what I mean when I say I feel like I need to trust my head instead of my heart. The circumstantial indicator with regards to her wagoning a player that now seems possibly a mason is independent of any amount of respect, because scum!LLD is going to have to push mislynches to win mafia.


OTOH

I do still feel like there might be some reason to not lynch LLD because of mechanics.
If commuter actually beats everything in the effing game like GreyICE alleges, then if LLD no-commutes tonight and maybe N2, mafia could be horrified into shooting her. If an investigative clears her shot, she can start commuting and become BP IC, which is very powerful, it creates a huge tilt on lategame EVs.

The problem is that when I talk about this is that people are like "fuck you" and it gets really unlikely we can get value out of the nightplay if that's how everyone feels about it, because one of the PRs that would need to care is likely one of the skeptics so no cooperation.

Imma UNVOTE: for now.

I ofc liked your letter Ali

[popsofctown]

at this point
every time I've played with pops I've read her wrong so...

Hm. Me and pops I think our first game together was a Making Friends and Enemies, were you in that one? I vaguely recall you being in it. Maybe you were the mod idek.

I don't hardly remember it, but it looks like I was NKed N1 and Alisae replaced in on a later day.

[popsofctown]

The mod was Aster

Ank was already down a partner by the time she replaced in because of me

[popsofctown]

Ari I think you're really missing the point

[popsofctown]

I changed my answer FormerFish it was a counterwagon to Ank

[popsofctown]

GreyICE, why did you townread me earlier in this game?

[popsofctown]

At what point? There's various reasons, mostly related to everything you're doing making sense to me (I can disagree with something and still think it's town motivated FYI - I'd love a confirmed town commuter too, for instance).

Why would I scumread you?

I was trying for a gotcha if you said, "who said I I've townread you at all this game?" because your iso reflects both types of thoughts and I think you can sometimes catch scum forgetting their own read progression because feelings are easier to remember than representations.

This response is consistent with your iso.

You could scumread me because Chickadeelogic frustrated me so much I wanted to lynch her against wincon if you wanted to, I think that is one of the ways of going out that would not put an angry first post in the dead PT.

[popsofctown]

What about the timing of this has anything to do with ulterior motives and how!?

What a dumb broad statement with no follow up and no gravity to it. This is exactly the kind of bs post I'm talking about! It looks decent on the surface but there is nothing to it!

LLD being the main proponent of my lynch also adds an interesting dynamic to it, especially if she's scum.

Why does Lambdadelta being the main proponent of your lynch adds an interesting dynamic when she's town?

[popsofctown]

Huh that's pretty much it

Maybe a bit overly specific in some cases, and the Ari justification is off because Ari just generally reads fake to me

And my most recent Krazy vote was because Dannflor voted there and it seemed like we might get a wagon there which would force Krazy to produce more content, plus since Dannflor is one of my main townreads it just worked

ok but
why Krazy
I never really got that.

Because if I'm gonna guess someone who Pine has picked here to be scum, it's Krazy, and he's not done shit.

the only one who is allowed to say "pine probably drafts X" is me so come up with a different reason please :3

Alisae.
While I don't share the position.
"Allowed to say" is a rude thing to say to someone else in the thread.
It elevates you above them and I don't think it's nice or kind.

"I believe my arguments are stronger than your arguments" is ok.
"You don't get to think, I get to think" is like the kind gameplay environments that are not fun to be in.

I know you have more information and that's a good reason you can say "My arguments are stronger/better/more informed".
Maybe you're just trying to be hyperbolic and Poe's law but it's a little triggering for me.

[popsofctown]

:/

[popsofctown]

I'm depressed about my vanity wagon taking off for reasons so independent of me

[popsofctown]

VOTE: Lady Lambda Delta

[popsofctown]

Mastina is your roleclaim a hardclaim

Because if so it is in fact a 1v1 p sure.

2 town BP is ridic

I keep forgetting that.

[popsofctown]

This goes into another level of 'I think scum LLD would know we'd come to this answer' but occam's razor. I'll give her ISO a quick check.

She doesn't because she thought role distro was random as stated in a recent post.


It can be viewed as a slot that slipped at this point really

[popsofctown]

Answer this please

Wowzers, I only get to post 0 times without responding to you, jjh you used up all my strikes!

I have to concede there's some equity in scum being more aware of how roles were distributed. It's possible it just didn't come up. Pine distribution of roles doesn't directly imply Jingle distribution of roles. The symmetry would be Ali distributing roles amongst her masons.
But if there's for instance a rolecop or roleblocker in the PT and people are looking down the road, there's possibly some discussions like, Yosarian is probably not a role, Jingle would give Yosarian VT. Let's not rolecop Yosarian tonight even though all his reads are right.


Why was this important to you? Am I really likely to sway others, I feel incredibly unpersuasive this game. And I'm waffling like an eggo, so it seems unlikely I'm the swing state you'd need to convince to avoid being lynched today.

[popsofctown]

Also pops even if I was targetting you for a vote why would that be svummy. Again self preservation is townie as well as scum motivation

I didn't ask you the question to imply you were being scummy.

I was genuinely interested in the answer and appreciate it.

[popsofctown]

It's ok.

I'm upset I haven't accomplished more this game.

[popsofctown]

Day 1 is my favorite day.

[popsofctown]

Rose mafia was fun... Mostly.

I was a dick to Pine

It's confusing that he tried to draft me this game

I don't think he's lying about that though.

[popsofctown]

In fact, everyone, I am pleading!

DON'T
LYNCH
LLD
TODAY!

They will sort themself out later in the game!
Do NOT do it D1!

This shit cray.

And Lexi,
I think you should commute tonight.
Honestly and truthfully I do!


Now to finish catching up.

This doesn't make any sense.

If you want her to perma commute, then you aren't expecting nightplay to sort her.

When we're at our most sportsmanlike, she's no easier to sort than whoever we would have to day1 lynch instead. When we're at our least sportsmanlike, we gotta acknowledge that she has a fame for getting townread as mafia; she is harder to sort.

So dayplay doesn't sort her either.

[popsofctown]

Is there any relevant info in the past 80 pages?

Jingle has made an "important events" list in the OP. If you wanted to read a partial amount of the game, reading a couple pages before an after the non-votecount non-replacement (no replace-out has been interpreted as alignment indicative this game, cept maybe 1 person about UT) links he put there might be good.


LLD's wagon has become 100% about modwifom at this point, both how LLD is defending her on Pine modwifom and how Ali doesn't think Jingle would assign her the role LLD claimed on Jingle modwifom, so the more recent pages are varying shades of lame. I mean, this game still kicks ass because the playerlist but it was more fun when people were scumhunting but this setup's not gonna incentivize that 24/7.

@Aristophanes : I still don't understand. Say you put me at L-1 instead, and I tell you you shouldn't lynch me, I will sort myself because we have 10 days of dayplay. Are you going to back off, lather, rinse, repeat, or is there something special about LLD that makes her easier to read on later days that doesn't apply to other players?

[popsofctown]

VOTE: Vote: Ankamius

[popsofctown]

Because she knows allowing a vig to shoot an on-the-docket-to-be-mislynched player is protown

[popsofctown]

on the other hand if she is a scum commuter

she commutes anyway

and then we're in the exact same position tomorrow

It only costs a worthless 1-shot neighborizer shot for that to not be a thing

Any signs of ascetism would be powerlynched

[popsofctown]

LLD should commute. To not commute is idiotic and to check her is a waste of resources.

A 1-shot neighborizer is not really a resource. It's like a penny

[popsofctown]

Who should be lynched, Ari?

[popsofctown]

I'm gonna try to get Aristophanes banned from the Speakeasy so he spends more time playing Mafia.

He's fun.

[popsofctown]

It's not evil if I think I know better than him that it is best for him because mafia will bring him deep underlying joy and flowering friendships

Hopefully eventually an IRL masonry with me

[popsofctown]

I don't really see a scum LLD in her ISO. Most of the votes on her seem to come from the fact full commuter is probably a scum claim. But if LLD really is this great 'force of nature', wouldn't she know that claim would hurt her in the long run rather then help? I see a lot of talk and respect towards LLD for being this mastermind-like player, but I don't buy that she would claim something compromising like that, then.

However, letting LLD live now would probably only cause more distraction on D2. It's a good information flip because if this flips town then there's guaranteed scum in the LLD pushers. I can imagine those trees shaking through there roots knowing there's a possible unkilleable LLD out there lol

vote it

But chennis is actually scum

Iconeum you are a kindred spirit

[popsofctown]

People don't need to obey Alisae btw.

You can think for yourselves.


Leashing me for one day makes the most sense here.

I worry that "leashing the dayplay" causes so much harm to the dayplay itself that it's not worth it, really are being done by an expert. I think the flow of the game would change in a way that makes it easier for scum to hide. It's kind of speculative since I've never seen it happen.

I'm back to vanity wagoning instead of lynching the setup though.

I don't really see a scum LLD in her ISO. Most of the votes on her seem to come from the fact full commuter is probably a scum claim. But if LLD really is this great 'force of nature', wouldn't she know that claim would hurt her in the long run rather then help? I see a lot of talk and respect towards LLD for being this mastermind-like player, but I don't buy that she would claim something compromising like that, then.

However, letting LLD live now would probably only cause more distraction on D2. It's a good information flip because if this flips town then there's guaranteed scum in the LLD pushers. I can imagine those trees shaking through there roots knowing there's a possible unkilleable LLD out there lol

vote it

But chennis is actually scum

Iconeum you are a kindred spirit

If you agree, don't vote me.

You can make a difference.

Yeah I'm already off you but it was a naked vote so it's ok that you missed it.
If you are town I really feel for you, because getting lynched for truthfully presenting a closed setup claim is the worst thing ever. When I lost a borderlands themed mafia game off of that after dayplaying in such a way that I was the only townie to make it to LyLo (multiball) I was extremely frustrated to be in a losing position for something that feels like a really unfair reason.

[popsofctown]

I laughed out loud

<3s LLD

[popsofctown]

Setup Specific Information

This game features non random Role Distribution. I chose who would be town power roles (With the exception of the masonry), ostensibly to give town the best chance possible.

(I was more concerned about fun. Deal with it.)

On role distro Jingle did not townside or scumside he funsided

[popsofctown]

"hey Ali, telling us not to think for ourselves and assuming dominance is kinda shitty"?

P sure that was me

[popsofctown]

I think Ali is an inherently kind person but who maybe doesn't always measure the impact of eir actions on other people accurately.

Please don't browbeat er when e's actually self corrected, as e often does.


Hugs, Ali

[popsofctown]

@Pine or @Jingle

does Pink Ball's request constitute one request for the fruit such that Pine can't distribute the fruit secretly now?

[popsofctown]

No one else ask for that fruit, except maybe someone Alisae nominates.

[popsofctown]

I was gonna go on a bit about how I'm kind of widely scumread so I don't know whether that's optimal

But that was too cute.

Bargain: Watcher

[popsofctown]

You can leash a hammer. Just let me hammer, vengelynch anyone who lolhammers, unless Ali changes eir mind and wants to let someone else be watcher, then let that person hammer. That person should not be Pink Ball, omg that slot.

The point of this might be to secure my vote to make an LLD mislynch go through, but I think it's happening with or without my vote, really.

@GreyICE

Ank is scumreading me. MariaR is scumreading me. I can't recall a slot that's townreading me. I think jjh is scumreading me iirc.

[popsofctown]

LLD is at L-4 by my count.

[popsofctown]

This is lose lose for you either I am town or you dont get the power so

Or my timezone and sleep schedule isn't exactly matched to yours?

[popsofctown]

So uh

What is there to stop Pine from telling lies aside from the Jingle detector?

Pine is on his honor as a player to not intentionally tell lies about fruit because of it being a game fruit, and that goes whether Jingle catches it or not. Pine isn't someone who would duck that to get a win.

Would kind of like if such a concept was extended to Alisae's knowledge of blacklisted roles but it seems ambiguous whether Ali perceives it that way :/

[popsofctown]

I am good to die now. This has dragged on. Eveb if you think i am town, either cote Xof or vote me. All other wagons are garbage.

If you are town you should self-vote now.

Watcher tends to benefit town more than scum, even if it's a lolhammer that's uncontrolled it's protown that someone gets it.

[popsofctown]

Yeah that feels like a scumclaim

[popsofctown]

Like I'm going to assume there's nothing fucking awful and bastard in them, like a neighborizor that poisons the person who takes it, or a watcher that causes town to lose the game. But I don't think it's beyond the scope of the game to hand out a watcher when the scum have a ninja. What Pine wrote seemed to confirm that the scum did not have a Ninja, what you wrote confirms that they do, which makes a watcher shot utterly worthless.

I think the thing is Jingle the role information should be interpreted with Board Game Logic that if some other effects is in the game that nullifies another effect, the vulnerable effect doesn't have to explicitly state the possibility to be considered a correct way of stating it.

If we have "draft cop fruit: investigate a player to find out whether someone other than Jingle successfully drafted a player." and "draft miller: all roles think Pine drafted you btw Pine didn't", that fruit would be stated correctly by Board Game Logic.

[popsofctown]

Scumbag Pine:

-Complains about hyperposting/pagespammy chat mafia playstyle
-Presents get-to-the-thread activity based PR bargain

[popsofctown]

Honestly guys its not that I am scum

It is that two of my scum reads both badly want watcher fruit

You scumread me so hard that you don't want to "risk" my slot to have a role that's a watered down rolecop for scum and a scum deleter for town, and you developed this massive read all on gut without coming across a single point you can remark on?

[popsofctown]

Chickadee's vote is restricted in order to obtain neighborizer fruit from Pine

[popsofctown]

The point of this might be to secure my vote to make an LLD mislynch go through, but I think it's happening with or without my vote, really.

Am I misreading this or is it a scumslip?

My post contemplates that Pine might be trying to cause town!LLD's death with his actions.

My post fails to contemplate the possibility that Pine might be trying to cause scum!LLD's death with his actions, because he wants to gather cred for his slot as a bus, and as a scum treestump, sacrificing a mafia bulletproof ascetic to avoid getting lynched is a really relevant play.

I'm not seeing a problem.

[popsofctown]

Is there an inside joke thing that makes the "grandson" shit not harassment or something else I'm missing

[popsofctown]

Is there an inside joke thing that makes the "grandson" shit not harassment or something else I'm missing

Yes, there’s an inside joke, yes you’re missing something

Okay, that's helpful.

[popsofctown]

i think ari is town but this is based off of a marathon game, so take it with a grain of NaCl

VOTE: Chennisden

This was long ago but his posting has been monolithic, so why now? They've all had a sort of veneer.


Every other complain about your slot has been valid.

You haven't been yourself itt.

[popsofctown]

Pine its nothing personal but im putting flipped scum on ignore

[popsofctown]

Pine its nothing personal but im putting flipped scum on ignore

deja vu again, lets see how this plays out, like my dream or different?

chennisden posted that verbatim earlier this game, I don't want to dishonor the poet

[popsofctown]

It's reasonable but I don't understand why people want to talk about things like this when slots like chennisden and ank are just openwolfing though.

[popsofctown]

whoever is scumreading ank please stop

chenn I want you to unpack why you said this next time you're in the thread

there r better things to push

The way he acts when anyone goes against his slot is consistently wolfy. And his first 5 posts are about himself, so I don't even feel like it's one of those cases where someone just gets put in to defensive mode for the game.

I don't want to quote his whole iso in a game where lots of people are trying to catchup, but you implied you saw how some of his post are sniffy, I just must be more concerned by them than you are.

[popsofctown]

You promised to spam the game, then spammed the scum PT instead

[popsofctown]

no I'm ending this day
I NEED THIS LYNCH MY GUY

I strongly agree this day needs a night phase. I think people really need a break. I think people need time to read. There's a difference between needing time to read and "I don't feel like reading". But I feel like at least reck is gonna read at least some swaths of the game.

If I stay unvoted to try to get the watcher shot from PB it's gonna be bad for the game prolonging this phase so as much as I like the idea of doing something for Ali I'm just gonna VOTE: LLD so this can hammer while I'm asleep tonight. It's kind of like a game of chicken, I'm conceding.

It's possible LLD just selfhammers anyway, of course. I urge her not to if she's really town, PB is scummy but a player you have a scumread on is generally like, 40% instead of 30% to be scum, and watcher does like four times as much for town as scum, so the EV doesn't add up. Even if PB was my preferred day2 lynch I'd want him to fire the shot, report his results, and die later, rather than deny him the ability because I'm really concerned he found out someone was targeted by either a doctor, fruit vendor, cop, hider, or faerie turtle.

[popsofctown]

Wish ms.net had upvotes sometimes

[popsofctown]

Bargain: Watcher

I'm taking that as permission, thanks!

Pine I posted this

He didn't acknowledge mine either dude, it's unambiguously just, whoever hammers LLD gets watcher fruit as long as they typed

Bargain: Fruit

sometime before the hammer

[popsofctown]

You can even put it in the same post


try to L-2 vote when my townreads are online pls kthx

[popsofctown]

*L1

[popsofctown]

LLD was at L-4, then GreyICE revoted and Firebringer revoted her for the first time. She's at quasi L-2 while Dannflor's vote is remove.

GE if you wanna be super nice I think PB is asleep and I think I will be up for a couple of hours till Dflor readlists and revotes. But if you wanna be

medium

nice pls swoop fruit from PB that slot is waaay scummier than yours you're probtown

[popsofctown]

Oh crap, GE was already voting LLD on the VC I was working from

Nevermind.

[popsofctown]

It might be fruitless in the end

nice

its why im here

This guy should do standup

[popsofctown]

Yeah, that makes sense.

But if you wanna be medium nice pls swoop fruit from PB that slot is waaay scummier than yours you're probtown

I think I agree with this then

Sorry, I've determined my votecount was wrong

Maybe Iconeum will take it with strange EU timezone magic, that'd be nice.

[popsofctown]

LLD was at L-4, then GreyICE revoted and Firebringer revoted her for the first time. She's at quasi L-2 while Dannflor's vote is remove.

GE if you wanna be super nice I think PB is asleep and I think I will be up for a couple of hours till Dflor readlists and revotes. But if you wanna be

medium

nice pls swoop fruit from PB that slot is waaay scummier than yours you're probtown

Aka unvote for now right

That's what I was saying before I looked back and realized you voted just before the last official votecount instead of just after so it's borked.

[popsofctown]

I kinda want to get a reads list out too actually

24 hour twilight, according to FF.

Spoiler: krazy questions catchup slots can skip

If no player offers him a bargain with

bargain:fruit

he loses the opportunity to secretly distribute the fruit at night instead. He kinda seems to regret not saying "if not enough people offer me" fruit instead and he and Jingle have been cagey in future interactions, but if it was 2+ Jingle would have had to correct, and he said it, so it only takes 1 bargain.
We don't know whether Pine can nullify it by saying "if you climb mount everest and show me pix" or reach some other level of ridiculous in the deal.
Pine can stockpile up to 2 Fruit and has admitted some fruit is town-utility-only. He will have to give it out just so that new fruit starts coming in, kind of like an unwanted tetris piece, the way I understand it.
The way he has mentioned a fruit "not being ripe yet" and some of his other comments has implied that he stores his two fruits in a storage area as he accrues them and can offer them in any order he wants. I suspect it's not mandatory for him to give them out but it's to his advantage to do so to keep his fruit income going. Fruit WIFOM + strong chance they have white lie negative passives + actually giving fruit to scum some percent of the time + being on the team that can delete a player holding a beneficial fruit from the game when that's necessary.
All fruits given thus far are 1-shots that last 1 night the immediate following night and the delay of clarifications of such suggests that possibly all the fruits are like that.
There seems to be little preventing Pine from giving fruit to scum besides WIFOM. Leashing one person to bargain according to Ali's preference would work but people are just bargaining anyway and it's anti-town-not-scummy, sadly.
Fruit does not inherently grant multitasking and slots in this game are only multitasking if it says so in their role PM, I spec at least 1 scum role but there's a good chance they all just have it.

[popsofctown]

FormerFish
why'd you fucking do that

[popsofctown]

you didn't even fucking bargain the fruit

[popsofctown]

I'm sorry I'm a little drunk.

But that's not teamplay and it's frustrating.

And it's a teamgame.

[popsofctown]

wait it's a fake hammer FF is already on LLD I AM drunk UNVOTE:

[popsofctown]

FF can you type

Bargain:Fruit

on the protown ability anyway


so I don't have to go see a doctor about heart medication

[popsofctown]

FF I always fall for fakehammers I feel real exploited rn

[popsofctown]

Formerfish is that a BDSM video

[popsofctown]

Formerfish is that a BDSM video

BDSM in my Mafia game?????????????????

FORMERFISH
you can't EXPOSE ME TO THAT STUFF

BRUH
I'M INNOCENT

im honestly not sure which video so i cant say for sure its not, i feel like ive posted only pg or like soft pg13

You played CodeNames with me but not mafia. According to my iso I'd have had to finish a game with you without directly referring to you or quoting you and that's unlikely. 75% of the times I see or type FF I think Final Fantasy and don't like it so I'm not worried about that.

[popsofctown]

<3 LLD

[popsofctown]

I asked LLD for advice on getting good at mafia after G&R and she offered me a good starting point and I appreciated that

[popsofctown]

Yes, quick.

Don't forget bolded Bargain:Fruit

[popsofctown]

VOTE: LLD

[popsofctown]

UNVOTE:

[popsofctown]

She might have been hammer, because alcohol counting.

But by my counting I was hammer.

[popsofctown]

Ank

If you're actually town with those reads

not bargaining first to "prove the purity of your intentions"

is bad play

[popsofctown]

Ank I am not scum.

I don't understand why you think that at all and am also not sure why you are so sure about it.

Some of my posting pattern might be a little different because I am trying really hard and sucking at keeping my post count low and maybe the stuff I end up excluding is the stuff that would be good to be seen

[popsofctown]

LLD if you selfvoted as town, I really think you need to review your play and how you assign confidence to reads as you develop them, because I think people tend to have trouble measuring the confidence and probability on their own reads, because usually it doesn't matter, lynching the scummiest person is always best, the margin doesn't matter. But this is a rare case where it does matter, a 3:1 ratio on value of watcher to scum vs. town against the actual probability your nonmechanical read is right is an important comparison. This is one case where you have not read me wrong. Maybe you collect enough data that you can really decide you can statistically say your 3rd pick scum in a 25p is this accurate. I hope you don't take it as an insult to your reputation for me to suspect that's not accurate.

LLD if you selfvoted as scum good job, you played well, hammergrabbing is a stupid mechanic and it doesn't matter who grabs it or whatever. I think I grabbed it though.

pedit: I really agree with Katsuki that Alisae needs to review the way she's been treating LLD. I'll save some of it for postgame

[popsofctown]

pedit: I really agree with Katsuki that Alisae needs to review the way she's been treating LLD. I'll save some of it for postgame

wait
my apology wasn't good enough

Can;t just cut someone then go stick a band-aid over it and call everything ok.

I know you'll feel bad about it. But the words from your mouth are like water in a basin, once you spill it you can't take it back.

yeah
ik

I am still not sure you understand why claiming mod-info in this game is unsportsmanlike, and how it's therefore natural that LLD found it upsetting.
I am still not sure you wouldn't do it again.
No one needs to apologize twice for anything.
But you apologized about that, then actually doubled down, and then Pine eventually anticonfirmed, and so I don't know whether if I rolled scum and played a reroll of this game with you tomorrow you'd do that again so I'd be playing mafia against 1 slot instead of 20 slots like I signed up for because you think your scumread is better and will lie to force it to be correct play to sheep it.

[popsofctown]

pedit: I really agree with Katsuki that Alisae needs to review the way she's been treating LLD. I'll save some of it for postgame

wait
my apology wasn't good enough

Can;t just cut someone then go stick a band-aid over it and call everything ok.

I know you'll feel bad about it. But the words from your mouth are like water in a basin, once you spill it you can't take it back.

yeah
ik

I am still not sure you understand why claiming mod-info in this game is unsportsmanlike, and how it's therefore natural that LLD found it upsetting.
I am still not sure you wouldn't do it again.
No one needs to apologize twice for anything.
But you apologized about that, then actually doubled down, and then Pine eventually anticonfirmed, and so I don't know whether if I rolled scum and played a reroll of this game with you tomorrow you'd do that again so I'd be playing mafia against 1 slot instead of 20 slots like I signed up for because you think your scumread is better and will lie to force it to be correct play to sheep it.

I don't want to be specific but I have been fake cop guiltied before, I don't want to flame the specific player that did it ettiquette etc.
I think it's really messed up.
I kinda don't care if it's technically legal.
I just think it's messed up.
It's like tackling with intent-to-injure in 1960's football or something if that's considered a component of the game and something players think is ok to do I'm out.

[popsofctown]

Ok, I'm sorry to everyone, I will stop posting now, immediately, browser closed, gn.

[popsofctown]

wait it's a fake hammer FF is already on LLD I AM drunk UNVOTE:

VOTE: LLD

VOTE: LLD

This is the multi-iso between me and Ank.

Jingle has listed me and Ank as both voters on the wagon with LLD's selfvote too late to be valid.

Clearly the sequence is I hammered.

[popsofctown]

Pine you don't deserve to ask me for any additional goods or services when I met the exact terms of your bargain.

But since I'm really nice.

If you want I will change my avatar to Scholarship Student Isis in exchange for the fruit.

[popsofctown]

[popsofctown]

Pine I wanted to be the Watcher

go Watch yourself

[popsofctown]

you should be having that conversation WITH ALI

[popsofctown]

good grief

[popsofctown]

Why are you focusing on the most mechanicked slot? If people from Alisae's list start turning up dead the slot will be hands off until at least LyLo-1.

Mulling over a 1-shot factional Vanillizer shot or something?

[popsofctown]

I want to be light blue, light blue Yoshi is the one whose favorite fruit is the grapes.

I replaced into this game to roleplay Yoshi's Story, not to play mafia.

[popsofctown]

Yeah I hammered her and got a fruit.
Read at your leisure overnight.
We don't know her flip yet but probably scum because she tried to selfhammer when it looked like Menalque was gonna get it and I don't remember her SRing Menalque.

[popsofctown]

I missed, but seeing what the deaths were I don't feel like I had a good shot of predicting the kill.

Predicting the kill is pretty hard with so many people anyway.

I should probably claim my target anyway right? Never rolled watcher before.

[popsofctown]

Who ended up with the track? Pops?

Wait, Ank hammered didnt she?

No, she got tricked into thinking she had hammered by popsofctown

[popsofctown]

Of course I did it's use it or lose it

I'm like 90% sure it's correct to claim who I watched and got no results on, but I'm just confirming.

[popsofctown]

Alisae, you know I'm bad at mechanics, I lynched conftown in G&R :/

[popsofctown]

I watched MariaR because a couple people TR and I thought it'd be unexpected for me to watch someone who treats me adversarial sometimes. I got no results, no results at all (communicated in a way that says I wasn't roleblocked)

[popsofctown]

Guns and Roses, a game Alisae and I played together

[popsofctown]

Obviously I'm biased but I think mastina seems like the strongest crumb

It really doesn't look like a strong crumb though. How much protown behavior are we going to presume from a player that tried to delete the one-shot watcher? She's a good player but she didn't seem in the mood to minmax mechanics is what I'm saying, so maybe she just didn't crumb because she was hiding a townread anyway and she got surprised by the results.

[popsofctown]

Nothing about how the fruit worked gave me even a little inkling of that, jjh

[popsofctown]

Did you get any extra info about how the mechanic works?

I mean if it sates your lust for knowledge to know every little detail, the fruit pm was sent when Pine said "ok pops you get the fruit" rather than at at the point a neutral party would be able to identify that I'd met his deal or at the end of twilight..
And the fruit has no name