Compromise Arena A

[Krazy]

Last person to post is scum

wait shit

[Krazy]

A50 are you scum?

[Krazy]

No. Seriously though, would you have expected me to admit it if I was? What kind of question is this?

maybe? in compromise there's no downside to claiming scum like in conventional mafia. for all you know everyone here is mafia

[Krazy]

Max scum team size is 3, so only 50%.

what where did you see this?

[Krazy]

I think Penguin is town and I think Chenni is not town

[Krazy]

But I mean he's right that goon is listed twice, which makes it seem like Boon us using the actual cards for the game, i.e. there cannot be duplicate roles, and if there can't be duplicate roles then we can't have a game of all goons or all wolves etc. etc. which is different than how I thought this version of the setup was for some reason at least in my mind

[Krazy]

@Boon

is there a maximum of three mafia-aligned players in this game?

[Krazy]

chenni which faction are you?

[Krazy]

I think maybe I believe the vt claim and I definitely believe the not vt claim

[Krazy]

I'm VT

[Krazy]

VOTE: Vorkuta

[Krazy]

Did you know that alpha wolves aren't even a real thing? It's basically psuedoscience; there's wolves that can act like "alphas" in artificial situations (like zoos) but in the wild it's basically just "whoever is the father/patriarch" runs the social order; the idea of an alpha that rules through aggression is carried over from primates who have their own totally separate social hierarchies.

[Krazy]

The actual mechanics of the game strongly incentivize the entire game to lynch any alpha wolf claims... if split-faction compromise is only available wincon, then we do not want an alpha wolf, we want a normal wolf. And same-faction compromise means we do not want a wolf either. So unless two other werewolves would like to claim with you, then there's literally no mechanical incentive to keep you alive further into this round. Even a solo wolf would prefer you lynched because for a split-faction wincon they would need you removed anyway

[Krazy]

First of all, we can confirm if there's another WW here by now. If there is, lynching you (Vorkuta) would be impossible (you, the other WW & the Jester aren't voting you).

actually Ari can lynch alpha wolf here, he wins with 1-1-1-1 split so it's better for him to have the alpha wolf gone and only a living seer-checked wolf. He would only wolf-side if there was alpha and two normal wolves. Otherwise 2 wolves + jester vs 3 town = deadlocked game which does not advance his wincon

[Krazy]

uhh what?

sure

UNVOTE:

[Krazy]

I CC Ari

Was this a joke btw? You haven't mentioned it since

[Krazy]

If we lynch jester does he win and everyone lose or does he win and the game continue with other wincons?

[Krazy]

Was that in response to 210?

[Krazy]

VOTE: a50.

with vork ic we can do this now, I'm the real seer so a50 is confirmed non town

[Krazy]

ur lying because thats not how it works

im cop (i've already fucking claimed this, vorkuta, if you'd actually read the game) and i got mad at boon for starting the game before my cop invest. except i had no cop invest, so ur lying.

This is real btw, I tried to check a50 in pregame and was told I had to wait for 3 people to do a check

so with vork me-vork-chenni is a three player townblock so town should have good numbers here

[Krazy]

I have no idea. You and PP should lead the way since you both seem to have a better grasp of how this goes. It certainly isn't "standard" Mafia, as we need to lynch town here fully knowing they are town. Unless you do trust we are in a 5-1 situation already, and then lynching town still has no downside to it, if I understand correct.

Like, from my own PoV I could suggest you take me to LyLo (me being the only confirmed slot to myself aside from you) but who would agree? I don't see a claimed Cop accepting it (yes, I am also a claimed investigative, but it's less likely we have a WW in play now, so I'm effectively a VT).

This sure is a confusing setup to play at this point.. unless someone wants to change their claim

Why do we start with Krazy? Simple: He was last to claim VT.. after everyone else had claimed VT/Mot VT, so if there's a Mafioso that's where it is most likely.

@Krazy: Do you wish to change your plea to Guilty? I promise to go easy on you if you do.

I wanted to see where a50 was going with his fakeclaim but now its pretty clear what his agenda was

While I don't put it past him to fakeclaim seer as town this a50 pushing me as town after I townspewed myself pushing vork lol

[Krazy]

You can lynch A50 first if you want to win

[Krazy]

If you think I initiate a mechanical 1v1 with a50 as scum you should maybe bear in mind I've literally been in the process of leaving the site and had no intention of actually trying in this game, he literally just happened to walk into an incredibly easy trap and scumclaimed

[Krazy]

I'm sorry you didn't roll town a50 I actually would have liked to be same alignment as you here

[Krazy]

Spoiler:

Why are you leaving the site? I like playing with you and I like the games you mod too.

I've really been unable to control my tilt and anger in recent games and I don't think the way I play the game is healthy, I honestly think this game makes me toxic way too often

[Krazy]

Anyway there's no incentive for me to mechanically CC A50 as non-town with an IC revealed; there's no way for me to actually know he's not same-alignment as me which means I would be potentially be doing a game-throwing bus if he was same alignment and I wasn't town, and if he was town then town has a mislynch so I would simply be lynched afterward which does not put me in a winning position.

[Krazy]

Reminder that neither of you flip,

wat? lol then there's even less reason for me to cc as non-town

[Krazy]

Quick reminder that the way you play this round may or may not affect how we remember you in our next games, especially when there may be more points on the line

do you think I fake a mechanical CC without actually rereading the rules? all I could keep straight was what was established in thread and in the PT, I.E. that the cards aren't duplicates

[Krazy]

Except A) I wasn't sure whether you fakeclaiming might not still mean you were town, given that you are in fact A50
B) Surprising with a contrasting werewolf result at the start of 3s would have been way more interesting since you would be compelled to share your "result" first
C) A seer gets a sub-50% guilty rate since they only get one faction, a CC gets a 90%+ guilty rate but I needed to make sure you were committed to the claim and not doing a typical A50 gambit

[Krazy]

So let's lynch A50 already?

[Krazy]

VOTE: Vork

If we're doing policy lynches I think we start here

[Krazy]

I mean I read monkey pretty easily there, you read me correctly but refused to act on your own correct read if I understood your comments toward the end of the game correctly

so I don't know what to do with you but I'm pretty sure you can go early now so I can spend the game talking to people who I can plausibly make headway with that won't initiate a string of game-losing lynches while I'm offline and unable to respond

[Krazy]

And you can keep blaming A50 like he made some mind-blowing play but really he didn't. I was barely trying and I still caught him but you decided to ignore my read there and act like there was some sort of consensus on Ari being Jester which really just amounted to you nuking everyone who was offline

[Krazy]

More votes for Vork, thanks.

[Krazy]

Kinda feel like this game works waaaay better in person than on the forum, but maybe it's just that one or two people being MIA is dragging this down

[Krazy]

I kinda don't think he was really Seer tbh, he only forced out that claim well after he was at l-1.

[Krazy]

Anyway, chenni want to claim a role? It doesn't have to be your real role but might help keep this moving

[Krazy]

I know timezones are erratic and its a busy time but man is it lame to post to a thread on my way to work in the morning and have no responses by the time I'm heading home

[Krazy]

We're same alignment A50, unvote or you're losing your majority

[Krazy]

VOTE: pp

Realistically if he was with us he'd have posted some memes by now

[Krazy]

yeah I dunno about chen's claim

VOTE: chen

[Krazy]

No I just think he looked at the no cc to the last seer claim and wanted to move in

[Krazy]

Well chenni claimed town so... maybe we take care of that and then sort out everyone else

[Krazy]

Whatever alignment you are man :3

[Krazy]

Man if chenni was actually here this would be interesting

[Krazy]

I kinda do yeah

[Krazy]

you think he's town pretending to be maf or what?

[Krazy]

I think if he was WW he deffo would have hammered chenni though so that's the only thing I feel reasonably confident on with Ari, most likely maf, second most likely to be town pretending to maf

[Krazy]

Yeah I can see why you'd think that, given I was playing to see if I could win over the wolves

I think RNG just favored us here

[Krazy]

I'm GF. Counting on RNG in this game to give a normal distribution is just asking to shoot yourself in the foot. You'd be surprised how often "three one faction" comes up when you're doing quick games over drinks

[Krazy]

VOTE: Ari

[Krazy]

Wait no, actually I think it's better to do A50

VOTE: A50

[Krazy]

Only risk here is that Chenni gambited but that seems unlikely tbh

Me and Ari are opposed, Chenni is claimed town, it's compromise ending

[Krazy]

I mean that is unless you guys want to sit here twiddling thumbs until timer runs out

[Krazy]

Another way is for one of then to TRUST US for the joint win.... WAIT!

See the beauty of this is that no trust is required, except very slightly for us on chenni, since if Ari was same alignment as me he would have just taken the hammer when it was offered

Now it's confirmed 2-1-1 which means the round is functionally over.

[Krazy]

Why would Chenn lynch me? The game is over, A50. Chenn is faced with two opposed factions; why would he risk a full loss when he either gets an all loss or a compromise by either lynching you or doing nothing?

Strictly speaking it's not really up to anyone but Ari, unless Chenn full threw his team's wincon. If Ari wants compromise we can do compromise, if he wants all lose we can do all lose, idgaf I don't think it makes a difference in points either way.

@Boon

is there any difference in points between a 3-way compromise and an "all lose" end?

[Krazy]

You don't expect either of us to give away their "high ground" at this point, thus making way for a complete defeat. The best you can hope for is that we let you in on it, and you have my word on that one if you play game.

I don't even know what you're talking about, this game is functionally over. Either we do full impasse or we do a 3-way compromise. There's 0 reason for Chenn to vote anyone other than you or no one without full throwing so I'm not sure what you're talking about with high ground. There is no high ground here lol

[Krazy]

There is NO 3-way compromise.

This isn't my recollection but we can check

@Boon

if the three players in 3-way are all separate alignments and vote compromise, then how is that resolved?

I don't see any scenario how that's any different from all lose still

VOTE: all lose is the pretty clear result of this game whichever way it spins

[Krazy]

Now, imagine this: Ari is TOWN

now imagine this

I'm town gambiting, and Ari is also town gambiting, and all of the town wins with compromise if they lynch you

that's quite a scenario right!

[Krazy]

I think your opposition to a 3-way compromise or all lose is really sketch monkey lol

[Krazy]

Actually Ari you are technically throwing right now, you should be voting A50 as well. A50 is the only person whose alignment is unknown. If he claims town to chenni, and is in fact town, then he lynches you in 3-way with chenni.

[Krazy]

See that's still an incorrect play, Ari. Because I know your alignment is opposed to me and you know mine is opposed to yours. The only way you lose here is if A50 is actually gambiting town.

[Krazy]

Also I kinda just don't see how it's ever correct to self-vote in 4-way?

[Krazy]

Like are you saying we lynch Ari and then lynch Chenn just to screw town out of points? That's pretty cold

Like, yeah, theoretically that puts me ahead of the town players, but it doesn't put me any closer to catching up with you so it's extremely risky and cold for really minimal payoff

[Krazy]

Why do you suddenly think it's plausible that Ari is town lol

Ari is never town here

[Krazy]

lol are you seriously trying to sell me on a chenn lynch?

come on a50, me lynching chenn or chenn lynching me is a clear-cut gamethrow

like that's sketch monkeyboi, weren't you the one all gung-ho for a cat's game compromise earlier?

[Krazy]

because the votes otherwise will time out at impasse

it's that or we all vote A50 and then vote chenni if you wanted like 2-3 extra points over time and a split win with me

otherwise it just sits at 2 votes on A50 and 2 votes doing whatever else until time runs out

lynching A50 allows town to lose with a chenni vote, or someone else winning if chenni came on and there was a betrayal. but there's no way for mafia to get a full win, so it's only a question of whether one faction loses or no one/everyone loses

[Krazy]

I mean why would I ever take your word over just lynching you now and then lynching chenni quickly afterward? One of those scenarios presents a certain loss for me, the other does not lol

Anyway I still think this should usually end in an all-lose. Anything else is like needlessly complex and risky at this point since there's so little uncertainty about alignments

[Krazy]

I don't like it. Something is fishy here.

Yeah A50 is trying to spin a mafia win for you guys still lol

Just a question of how much you care about 2-3 points and how much you want to belabor this gamestate

[Krazy]

Like this game is complex when alignments are uncertain. They're not here though. There's only one person who could have even been plausibly gambiting at this point and that's A50, and he's still definitely playing like mafia so it's basically a 2-2 lock and a cat's game.

The only reason it's even still under consideration is because chenni is offline, which means you have the option to wolfside for a joint wolf-maf win, but that requires sacrificing one of your team so that we have equal numbers when voting chenn.

[Krazy]

Voting A50 has no effect withour Chenn on. Literally this game is waiting on him.

Uhh, no, Chenn does not vote A50 here under this arrangement actually. A50 self-votes so that we can then lynch chenn. That way you get more points than you would with an all-lose.

Chenn only votes all-lose here realistically since a cat's game is best town can hope for rn

[Krazy]

This is kinda a dumb argument though, the game was played and now the game is over. Dragging out a cat's game is kinda silly

[Krazy]

I mean I don't think you should, I still think Ari should just hammer the all-lose. You self-voting is just literally the only other viable play here and Ari seems reluctant to commit to the all lose

[Krazy]

it's 2-2 ari

I know it's really 2-1-1 but it's functionally 2-2 because there's no doubt about almost anyone's relative alignment

it's just a cat's game, that's the problem with starting 4+ in this game

you can take it up with boon if you want since a50 won't compromise with a mafia lynch for a wolf-mafia joint win, there's really nothing to talk about here. going into 3-way kingmaker with every alignment confirmed is dumb anyway and just going to lead to bad feelings

[Krazy]

like the fun of compromise is supposed to be duping people in 3-way with alignments uncertain

the only reason we reached this situation is because I did a big gambit in voting chen, and then you failed to take advantage of the gambit. Yes, theoretically you and A50 could have won if you immediately hammered chen before I changed votes. We both have already lowkey gamethrown this round so in a way it's fitting anyway that everyone loses

being in a position where everyone's alignment is certain is zzz

[Krazy]

A50 why are you willing to lynch Ari but not yourself j/w?

[Krazy]

Wow dude lol wtf?

[Krazy]

Alright I guess I'm done with this game you guys can do whatever, I'll get boon to find a replace

[Krazy]

Yeah, I don't even want to respond to that, that's just needlessly gross and incredibly toxic

I'm out

[Krazy]

"Gamethrow or I'll AtE you out of the game"

didn't see that coming from you monkey lol, ngl

[Krazy]

I'd rather that than people take it personally.

I mean we're pretty clearly already past that for reasons I literally cannot comprehend

I don't blame you for wanting to wait around to see if Chenni does some sort of gambit, I mean it's boring to wait for him but A50's random hostility is just totally out of the blue to me

[Krazy]

I probably broke site rules by even saying I was doing it but I was just so surprised by that comment that I kinda forgot about the updated rules tbh

but yeah this game is supposed to be silly nonsense, with half the group afk and A50 getting randomly hostile I definitely don't care enough about score to continue playing out two more rounds

I was wolf obviously, I don't know what you could have possibly been bluffing as Ari lol

[Krazy]

lol so A50 was the only mafia?

[Krazy]

well that was some snazzy play Ari

[Krazy]

Like I appreciate that honor is important but "do something that from your perspective would be gamethrowing" isn't really in the domain of honor. You were asking me to (since I believed Ari was GF) to be giving mafia a 2-1 over me and then to be totally at your mercy when the game in my mind was already over as a locked 2-2 (which it was just not in the exact way we thought). But with the hard cross-claim I didn't really see a way for me to get a win so I still think it's relatively likely this would have been deadlocked anyway. Like for Ari to get the supersaint win I would have had to have voted him which I really had no reason to do -- it's possible Chenn would have done something wild but from where I was sitting it still looked like a deadlocked game unless A50 at some point self voted which I kinda don't think he would have done

[Krazy]

I mean things got weird that as far as I can tell had nothing to do with your play Ari

[Krazy]

Yeah man, no hard feelings but I think things would be too awkward for me to continue to play out the other two rounds.