Detective Penguin & City of Fogport [Game Over]

[Jingle]

Yeah. The reviewer thing I'm doing.

Assume for the moment that Sane is a town cop.
Assume for the moment that no cop is shot N1.

Sane cop gets a result on one of 10 players, 2-4 of which are scum N1.
Insane cop gets a result on one of 10 players, 2-4 of which are scum.
Parity cop gets an immediately useful result on one of 10 players, 2-4 of which are scum.

When they flip, the accuracy of the Sane/Insane cop becomes a known value. Further, they have no reason not to claim in the cop PT. If scum doesn't shoot them to leave the validity of their checks as questionable, They continue to get 3 checks per night, which in three nights has caught 2-4 scum and cleared the remainder of the 10 people they can check.

If scum shoots and hits the Naive cop, the results are useful functionally immediately. If scum shoots and hits a functional cop N1 that's 2 results D2. If they hit ANOTHER functional cop N2 that's 3 results D3. If they hit the last functional cop N3 that's still 3 clears/guilties out of 10 people, at least 2 of which are scum (but probably at least 3 and possibly 4), with optimal nightkills, no protection intervention, and absolutely no scum agency in the nightkills. And scum have to have been targeting the same pool of people who could theoretically be investigated. That's just bad game design.

[Jingle]

Nobody fucking asked, and my hood already know about it.

And you bloody called yourself "the" unkillable uncaffeinated townie. Is Vecna caffeinated or is he not a townie?? By the way you listed the caffeinated players omitting Vecna I can only deduce you don't trust him, yet you keep telling us your hood is all town.

NOTHING you say or do makes bloody sense.

I don't want/care to discuss whether Vecna is caffeinated because that informs scum decisions. The important thing is that :you: have thought this was an important topic and then suddenly dropped it. The important thing is from :your: PoV I invalidate the caffeine wincon. I can't be left alive, because as long as I'm alive scum you can't win. You can't shoot me. Therefore, you HAVE to lynch me.

I'm operating under the assumption that Vecna is town because he's directly responsible for Marquis shooting Fish and has been pretty towny besides. If necessary, I'll reevaluate later, but the game will probably be over long before that becomes necessary or you'll get me mislynched and pull off the win for scum. I honestly don't care which, when no one else is calling you out on your blatantly scum motivated plans.

[Jingle]

Bingle was so obvscum fuck me for not pushing him harder.

Pfft. The fact that I even had a chance after D2 was a goddamn miracle.

Town investigated LITERALLY EVERY INVESTIGATABLE PLAYER.

[Jingle]

Publicize away, FG. I have no secrets.

[Jingle]

Please tell me PP was sane cop and I literally solved the game smh

Your arguments all relied on :this is a bad setup broken by flavor:.

By all rights, they shouldn't have been true.

[Jingle]

yeah im 80 % sure this town lost to apathy

I'm 80% sure this town lost to bafflingly bad play, and then apathy.

[Jingle]

Even with FL pushing me in bad faith I was shooting bingle night 1. Rip

I was BP, and had claimed BP ITT. Suck it.

[Jingle]

I thought this setup's balance wasn't that bad. Yes, it has this crazy superpowered town PR lineup on paper, but with all the counterbalances I put in to nerf the cops, janitored role flips, and the caffeine win condition (which is actually a very powerful alternate win condition that let the scum team endgame generally much, much faster), scum team has multiple routes to victory if they can negotiate the day game well enough. It doesn't take many players to start racking up the caffeine count pretty uncontrollably. pops and kuribo described the setup pretty well.

Respectfully?

Town shot a cop. I had 0 agency in the kills I had to make. JJD tried to lolvig N1 as a 25% chance vig when he was a 75% chance doc and there was a claimed must be killed or we lose role in the thread. Scum in this setup has one role that absolutely has to endgame. If chandra and I had swapped spots, I would have been in mechanical autolose on N2.

I understand the thought of balance by "Well, town can just fuck themselves royally." But I disagree in this case, severely.

In any event, thanks for the game, it was a ton of fun despite being all sorts of busted.

[Jingle]

I didn't balance the game while expecting to go through many Night phases, because the caffeine mechanic, unironically, speeds the game up dramatically.

Only if there aren't a bunch of roles that are very obvious holsters, like the tracker in rolemadness who knows there's two ninjas or the hood of potentially useless 1 shot roles who KNOW they're low equity or Vecna, who literally can't ever be caffeinated.

Maybe I'm just salty over having the run I just had, but this setup seems incredibly townsided from my POV.

Anyway, that dead thread was a super fun read. Have I mentioned recently how much I love kuribo? I love kuribo.

[Jingle]

And, FWIW, either faction could have won N1.

[Jingle]

Didn't i literally say to be conservative in fakegod setups a hundred pages ago

I find all political stances equally appalling, regardless of the mod.

fite me

[Jingle]

PP just made me realize that I have now convinced a cop to lynch their innocent. Even if we didn't get the lynch through because of deadline, I'm claiming that.

[Jingle]

I think there should be some context around that, but sure, take it.

But context makes it less impressive.

[Jingle]

So as not to be mean to anyone I shall refrain from commenting on any individual play. I just want to say that had we joined the "unkillables" on N1 we would have exposed the lie on D2, and we would have probably had reason enough to -at least- pressure Bingle on that day (at least until chandra slipped). You worry about caffeine? We LOST by caffeine still.

Not really?

I had a completely protown motivation for claiming we couldn't be killed by scum. If there were no scum in the hood, they wouldn't kill the hood. There's no real blowback on me for gambiting like that. If anything that specific lie would probably have strengthened my position in the town and I'd have become the last person in that hood to be lynched.

If anything, I probably would have been able to lynch a doc.

At that point, instead of 4 caffeine addicted players we would have had 7. At that point, instead of 6 players who couldn't be copcleared (5 after the pelican lynch) we would have had 10 (9). The cops would have been functionally VT's (and croag/PP probably never would have acted.) Pine wouldn't have acted. It would have had very little bearing on the pops/gobbs/FL lynches.

In short, the game wouldn't have been town imploding 5 feet from the finish line, it would have been a fair race.

[Jingle]

You maybe should have dug up the Ceph-You interactions, or Bingle-scum interactions to support your case, but I doubt that would have made a difference at that point. It should have been reasonably clear that lynching the "scum cop" was strictly better than lynching you (as croag correctly argued) and that there was obvious scum motivation in pursuing you first.

This is mechanically wrong, btw.

With the assumption of 2 scum, JJD was always the correct lynch. He could theoretically have been scum with either cop. Lynching him first means the cop has to choose who to kill before the 1v1, and town has more information when making the choice.

Lynching a town cop resulted in a scumwin in more cases than lynching a town JJD.

It just so happened that we were actually in LYLO and it didn't matter who I lynched, but town Jingle always argues the optimal lynch there and vecna would have caught on if I hadn't.

[Jingle]

Jjd was the only person being considered In a 2 scum so idk what knowing there was 1 scum left would have changed.

I would have been in a 1v1 with Vecna instead of JJD, JJD would have been hardcleared, and I wouldn't have won.

[Jingle]

Why is Marquis + cop less likely than JJD + the less scummy cop on a 4-man team?

Oh right, you think shooting a scumbuddy as scum vig is a viable choice.

[Jingle]

After lynching a vig, having another vig claimed who was unlikely to shoot him, and with knowledge of significant town power? Yeah, I don't think there was enough suspicion on Fish to warrant that D1. I also don't recall him being under that much pressure. Sure he was suspected, but D1 pushes are really easy to come back from.

:shrugs: