Detective Penguin & City of Fogport [Game Over]

[popsofctown]

17 players. Lets assume 4 scum. Lets assume the vigs know eachother, or talk to eachother at night. Lets assume theyre not stupid and try to shoot the claimed immune hood.

That leaves 12 targets, of which 4 are scum. If they coordinate their shots in their hood, thats like a 50% to shoot scum every night. Ofcourse, the D1L has some influence on it, but those are some pretty good odds to wreck the scumteam really fast.

I dont think a setup like that is ever gonna be created, or approved. 2 town vigs in a hood and 3 town that cannot be shot seems total rubbish.

is this a complaint about how townsided this game is?

why wouldn't u be celebrating

croag you're fun

[popsofctown]

@Pine:

Fullclaim in your neighborhood tonight, including any whatever details you might omit in the dayplay because you think it's scumsided to present them while you're alive.
When all players in a neighborhood are dead, the neighborhood becomes public, so this lets us counteract the role-janitor element of this setup.

[popsofctown]

My eyes have been glazing over about the JJD trying to join the vanillizer hood topic.

What was JJD's logic in trying to join the hood? "Let's all be bulletproof"?

[popsofctown]

Also, has it even been confirmed if everyone is in a hood?

Not until croag's post right above this was it 100% confirmed. People assumed the four of us were all together, but I believe the only certainty that could be derived from the actual posts in the thread was that I was with kagami and at least one other person.

It was pretty obv Croag was in hood after Kagami asked for prod

The fudge? The hoods don't have daytalk. Why would Kagami be more likely to prod someone in his hood instead of someone outside of his hood?

This sounds like a scumslip from having daytalk with Kagami or Croag

[popsofctown]

This game is such a testament to how neighborhoods generate insta-pocketing

I think in a universe where I don't have a neighborhood with Flavor Leaf I am probably naked voting him every page this day 2

The croag push doesn't seem like town at all. "Does anyone townread this slot?" is so weak.

[popsofctown]

So, I realized this like maybe several pages ago and some people seemed to be implicitly aware of it. But it is probably a good idea to point this out explicitly and overtly so no one misses it.

Spoiler: .

Anyone can join the vanillizer neighborhood and become bulletproof.
100% of the time when you do that, you become caffeinated.
A townbloc that moves into the vanillizer neighborhood would be broken for town, except for that all players in the neighborhood have to be caffeinated, therefore, the mafia can shoot all the sober players outside of the vanillizer neighborhood and win.
Bingle claimed caffeinated-at-game-start. Probably between the scum's roles and the roles of the players in the neighborhood they all have to become caffeinated. Don't rolefish on it but yeah.

The goal of the game is to kill all of the mafia. Moving into the vanillizer neighborhood does not help you kill all the mafia. If you get heavily townread and you fruit vendor the vanillizer neighborhood, you actually do not accomplish much. Mafia still nightkill a player every night, because they know you're in the vanillizer neighborhood and not to shoot you. So we go 1 point towards parity every night still. If the mafia reach a point where there is no one left to shoot this way, the mafia has actually won, everyone is addicted and in the vanillizer neighborhood.

The edge case is town!Bingle town!Marquis town!Vecna, move into the neighborhood, don't tell anyone you moved in, bait the NK and block a mafia NK and accomplish something. Also no scums move in that night. Also if that empties your neighborhood FakeGod posts the thread and so everyone knows you moved. Don't do that.

[popsofctown]

UNVOTE:

Why the unvote?

[popsofctown]

Thanks for explaining

[popsofctown]

I'd be disappointed in a JJD lynch.

[popsofctown]

Don't rolefish

[popsofctown]

What does that say about your own neighborhood JJD

[popsofctown]

Also, has it even been confirmed if everyone is in a hood?

Not until croag's post right above this was it 100% confirmed. People assumed the four of us were all together, but I believe the only certainty that could be derived from the actual posts in the thread was that I was with kagami and at least one other person.

It was pretty obv Croag was in hood after Kagami asked for prod

The fudge? The hoods don't have daytalk. Why would Kagami be more likely to prod someone in his hood instead of someone outside of his hood?

This sounds like a scumslip from having daytalk with Kagami or Croag

Its not the first time something like this was suggested. Howd you know this is the same for all hoods though?

I don't understand the question

[popsofctown]

Guys I'm lurking in the background

[popsofctown]

Please prod orfhz and/or Pine

[popsofctown]

Tinfoil hat, exactly one scum in the doctor hood, scum is informed of the entire neighborhood's sanity spread

[popsofctown]

D1L's play today has been worse than day 1 but that doesn't bring him into the gutter yet for me.

I feel like there isn't a slot in the game I'm enthusiastic about lynching, I'm hoping to get some reads that aren't townreads in the next 5(?) days.

[popsofctown]

@Chandar - who are we lynching now? Did we move off of Kagami?

I'd like to lynch D1L. I was never on kagami, but I believe some people still are.

VOTE: D1L

i'm not sure what to make of this but i'll take it

Towncase Flavor Leaf without using the word "claim"

[popsofctown]

Are we reading the same game?

[popsofctown]

He's sheeping you when you're in his top scumreads.

He cared about the viability of the Kagami wagon rather than his play.

He's not scumreading me even though I mislynched a vig and he's scumread me every TvT game we've ever played.

He is now wagoning onto Day 1 Lynch even though I don't remember him ever mentioning the player before naked voting him.

He's transitioning to town on your slot today even though you played townier day 1 than today.

He presumably (?) shot his day 1 townread.

How is this a player that believes in his pushes?

[popsofctown]

In the neighborhood PT he told me he townread me, then threatened to shoot me.

If you cobble together a townread on this slot it's not about some concept like consistency.

[popsofctown]

I'm kind of indifferent about Kagami. Some stuff he says seems a little townie, but in Starry Night he seemed even townier.

Also he was so townie in that game the mod told everyone he was town. It was very impressive.

[popsofctown]

Your post inexplicably takes proper premises to the opposite conclusion

Please no addiction fishing town kthx

Talk about your real life addictions instead

I spent all my moneys on DBDC Collab in my phone game to get the dragon girl that does 32x damage as long as you're wounded.
I can't pay rent now. I am now a hobo.

[popsofctown]

What if

She doesn't know Pine's alignment

So there's an X% chance killing him removes a sober townie

:brain meme:

[popsofctown]

My Chandra TR has cooled somewhat today

But you're using dumb arguments

[popsofctown]

Considering I didn't followed with vote on Chandra, this idea was on tinfoil level and I even said it was random idea. I just wanted opinions

I know it's disappointing you can't use the edit function when you roll scum but posts like these don't actually work as a substitute.

[popsofctown]

Bring me ashes of scums pls

[popsofctown]

I like the pattern of answers you got. I hope one of them answers N and the other never responds in order to preserve the pattern.

We should all change to yes.

In first grade I had a worksheet with a horizontal row of 8 boxes and I was told to use a red crayon and a blue crayon to color each of the boxes such that they made a pattern. I colored them all blue because that's a pattern. My teacher marked that problem wrong. She is wrong and I was right. To this day I think about it.

But separately maybe we should all change to yes because JJD has dropped scumhunting altogether for an overtly Survivor centered exercise

[popsofctown]

I like the pattern of answers you got. I hope one of them answers N and the other never responds in order to preserve the pattern.

We should all change to yes.

In first grade I had a worksheet with a horizontal row of 8 boxes and I was told to use a red crayon and a blue crayon to color each of the boxes such that they made a pattern. I colored them all blue because that's a pattern. My teacher marked that problem wrong. She is wrong and I was right. To this day I think about it.

But separately maybe we should all change to yes because JJD has dropped scumhunting altogether for an overtly Survivor centered exercise

You were told to use red and blue, you used only blue, so you're wrong there

I used an amount of red, zero is the amount I used, therefore I used red

[popsofctown]

Pine please don't call me a fucker

[popsofctown]

Also, worth noting - Fish flipped Ninja Watcher.

Uh, yeah, wtf?

If there's no explanation for this you're the lynch today.

[popsofctown]

Chews on popcorn

orfhz if you're not going to do alignment indicative things please at a minimum go to the effort of getting that gif where Michael Jackson is eating popcorn.

[popsofctown]

Yeah I can't even think of a possible excuse, I don't see a crumb or claim in Fish's last posts.

VOTE: Chandra

No lolhammers though I drew a picture I wanna show you guys.

[popsofctown]

But I’m phoneposting

The sentiment is there

Can you promise me you visualized the gif

[popsofctown]

But I’m phoneposting

The sentiment is there

Can you promise me you visualized the gif

Yes

I usually just say “popcorn gif”

I’ll be sure to stick to that next time

[popsofctown]

Don't help her

[popsofctown]

Being on this wagon this straightforward is not alignment indicative aside from maybe JJD could have gone for the "hope all 13 players miss it" instead of identifying the slip.

[popsofctown]

I drew an diagram of the gamestate, a gravestone means that player is dead, an upside down cross means they are scummy and a cross with a halo means they are towny.

I drew it like an hour ago so i had to cross out Chandra's cross and redraw.

This picture should be incredibly helpful to everyone in solving the game.

I dedicate it to Pine.

Spoiler: Diagram

[popsofctown]

I mean... It’s probably Pine would be my guess. Scum can’t kill the vig from yesterday now. Scum can’t kill any of the three of us. Scum can kill Pine, unless the randomly chosen doc who has a choice of whether to act acts and saves him. Scum might be afraid enough of the chance of this happening to shoot elsewhere, which would be great for us.

Is this kind of discussion actually better cards-on-the-table instead of close-to-the-vest with the doctor WIFOM?

[popsofctown]

Pine did you like my picture my heart trembles for your approval

[popsofctown]

PenguinPower's nightplay strategy is fascinating

[popsofctown]

The neighborhood is locked at night, how did Ceph tell you he got guilty unless you have a scum PT with him

The joke is funnier now that I have explained it.

Also just curious is there anything on the planet earth that would influence your scumread of me Bingle?

I think you've called me scum twice for each alignment indicative post I've made.

[popsofctown]

Did 2/3rds the remaining living scum team actually slip in a space of about 3 pages on page 116

Such wow

As far as I can tell they did

Kagami's tone regarding the slip feels off, even with some explanation that unslips it I'd want his blood.

[popsofctown]

how is R "GoRkington" instead of "oRfhz"?

[popsofctown]

Why is "L" "Fishmonger"??? how does this code work????

[popsofctown]

"That's a very bad list, FL."

Should be Day One Lynch innocent, but you said PP looked at me and got inno

you just made this up

[popsofctown]

Wait Kagami can't know PP's result if he's town, so it's not a slip unless they are all in on it.

[popsofctown]

Why would you bother assigning a letter to Vecna, Marquis, and Bingle

[popsofctown]

Kagami my like 4th best townread posted that she's scum a page ago I lust for slips now I'm insatiable

[popsofctown]

I'd prefer to hear it from croag since she is town.

[popsofctown]

what if the first time croag uses punctuation D2, that's her cop claim :brain meme:

[popsofctown]

I mean claiming this to the entire town can't be more antitown than claiming it only to the town component of your neighborhood + the entire scumteam, which is what you initially did?

[popsofctown]

Is that a typo with "not" intended as the second word or something?

[popsofctown]

Like "That's not what I thought I was doing"

[popsofctown]

Ok

Again

The entire scumteam knows the information you are telling me

Because you made it available to Chandra last night

There is no harm here

[popsofctown]

didn't pedit

[popsofctown]

UNVOTE: no one hammer before croag verifies this wasn't an on the spot thing, just to be sure

I would have outed the code at the same time as the information, that's more logical and natural.

[popsofctown]

Cephrir investigated Gorkington? That's such a bad cop target I want to lynch Cephrir

[popsofctown]

her posts come off townie and I think scum!Chandra pretends to townread here in this kind of day2

[popsofctown]

JJD, people who are town aligned are lying. It's very unlikely that ceph is lying UNLESS he has a modifier that he can't be caffeinated or something like that.

It seems really likely the entire mafia team can't be caffeinated, actually.

There's kind of some asymmetry otherwise, with the, do I perform the factional nightkill, or do I use my role.

[popsofctown]

I guess by Bingle's logic I shouldn't post thoughts like that

I'm not sure I have a counterargument that I should, actually, I'm just insolent

[popsofctown]

I want a croag post

I will vote with her

I implore Vecna not to hammer

[popsofctown]

I just typed a hammer post and deleted it. Why do you want a croag post?

I'm paranoid the codenames game is madeup and Kagami+Chandra slipped in referencing sharing investigation results, because their codenames schema seems really silly in several ways, including assigning you a letter.

[popsofctown]

@FakeGod

Can you confirm that no neighborhood has more than 2 mafia in it?
Let's perform the exercise.



Shooting an uncaffienated cop that people should be townreading but aren't is a good shot.

[popsofctown]

I really dont get why you think a mod would ever answer that.

Yikes.

Even if all hoods have one scum, why would the mod answer that question?

Vecna argues with Vecna



so clearly a neighborhood can have three scum
and I don't put that past this mod

[popsofctown]

Shooting croag is a horrible idea no matter what.

Why?

[popsofctown]

I only design or mod open setups and I answer all my player's questions, no matter how simple.

[popsofctown]

Shooting croag is a horrible idea no matter what.

Why?

Because she's very, very probably town, and quite possibly a valid cop?

It's a great shot for scum, therefore, whether or not CodeNames Conspiracy is real, so I can't just Night Kill Analysis instead of waiting for croag here like Vecna alleges.

[popsofctown]

I can't find an emoji that reflects my anger with you

[popsofctown]

Don't get pocketed in your hoods people

[popsofctown]

obviously

You're the one who needed the clarification, Vecna.

[popsofctown]

Also, Kagami died, yet we still have 4 caffeinated players, so someone who didn't act on N1 acted on N2.

Chandra also died, so two such players.

[popsofctown]

That reads more like a towncase on Marquis to me

[popsofctown]

I prefer the "scum don't defend scum" wine most of the time, and Fishmonger's defense of Marquis squarely falls in most of the time.

I still think the thing where Marquis risked vanillizing all our hiders was NAI, the wording was a mechanical clarification instead of a recommendation. You don't win your scumgames by convincing PRs to do suboptimal things, that just doesn't end well for many reasons.

Can I ask why Kagz is dead?

When he was a little scummy and a caffeinated one shot who had already fired?

I know NKA usually doesn't get you many place but.. this one seems kinda loaded...?

[popsofctown]

Who do you think scum killed, pops? The might as well be conftown guy or the caffeinated cop

Both.

Flavor Leaf softed 1-shot and hardclaimed "killed Fishmonger" in our neighborhood and was never cc'ed.

I think Kagami's "dies when targeted" tinfoil hat theory was true, it matches the "sickly" adjective in the flavor.

So I'm curious whether the kill implies PP scum or PP notscum.

blah blah blah it strongly implies Flavor Leaf scum but that's boring.

[popsofctown]

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

[popsofctown]

Flavor Leaf is scum or very antitown.

If he shot Pine, he falsely softed one-shot which is maybe ok but more importantly, he shot Pine
If he shot Kagami, I suggested that I wanted to Friendly Neighbor Kagami because she was scummy and unlikely to be nightkilled, and scum are obligated to report a Friendly Neighbor message, because if they don't it sets up a 1v1. So that just makes him a scum vig who falsely softed 1-shot.

Even if he is wtfbbqsauce vanilla town fakeclaiming vigilanted day 1 because he feels really sure about Pelican and sticking with it, it is antitown to out my role today
Even if he has no killing power it is suspicious for a scummy person who would have been able to confirm me as town to die.

I am not hardclaiming whether I finally decided to FN Kagami vs. not act at all. But Kagami was listed above all other players. It was not even a pool of players.

I only claimed in the neighborhood because he threatened to shoot me N1, while stating he townreads me. He unfortunately has enough moonlogic that I couldn't rule that out from a town variant of him so I claimed. That itself was antitown.

There's a difference between antitown and scummy sometimes.

But Chandra waffling on his slot was scummy for him for sure.

[popsofctown]

Quiz time


which is scummier


asking whether someone is already caffeinated


or begging a player to become caffeinated

Flavor Leaf asked me to use my FN shot a jillion times. I holstered N1

[popsofctown]

tbf if the context is right I don't think either has to be scummy if you think it's optimal play
but shooting kagz isn't optimal play
shooting ping isn't optimal play
holstering all game isn't optimal play

the scenarios where FL has played optimally have him with a red PM

[popsofctown]

If JJD actually highlighted the slip and he's scum with Chandra I will change my avatar to Scholarship Student, Isis

[popsofctown]

now that my role is outed

i don't have a hard mechanical reason to believe Marquis is town

I just know my role is also Friendly Neighbor + Miller and liked the symmetry

And was starting to like his slot anyway

So I softed FN receipt

[popsofctown]

Can I ask why Kagz is dead?

When he was a little scummy and a caffeinated one shot who had already fired?

I know NKA usually doesn't get you many place but.. this one seems kinda loaded...?

Read my first post of the day. It was a Vig shot. A bad one, but the source was Town IMHO

I read that post I just found it implausible.

Whiteknighting at L-1 because the victim has high power is sure. Whiteknighting at L-jillion creates a higher overall risk, since if you die, then that player is lynched for associatives, you did more harm than good.

pedit: FakeGod confirmed the game to be 100% singleball in the PM he discussed the caffiene mechanic iirc

[popsofctown]

YO GUYS i was browsing PTs for a notes PT in one of my games and I noticed Pine's neighborhood is visible.

Exactly like Pine said it would be.

Probably worth reading for everyone.

[popsofctown]

If he shot Kagami, I suggested that I wanted to Friendly Neighbor Kagami

I think Kagami's "dies when targeted" tinfoil hat theory was true, it matches the "sickly" adjective in the flavor.

*Looks at first quote.. then at the second* Sure! Flavor Leaf does look bad for deciding to visit someone "she herself" thought would die if visited.

I don't understand this post

Friendly Neighboring Kagami is safe, he is not a bat
Doing anything to pine is not safe

I think a Mafia Fruit Vendor killed Pine and the factonal nightkill killed Kagami.

But then there is still some equity in Mafia factional nightkill killed pine and Scum (Caffienated only?) Vigilante Flavor Leaf shot Kagami because my chat last night in my neighborhood PT means a protown Flavor Leaf with the power to kill people doesn't kill Kagami whether 1-shot or 2-shot

[popsofctown]

i posted this before reading the batcave they might totally kill my theory in there

[popsofctown]

I didn't hardclaim an innocent and when my neighborhood flipped it'd be visible why I had posted the way I did

[popsofctown]

If FL shot Pine his read are terrible or he's scum, his reads can't be that terrible

if FL shot Kagami his reads aren't terrible but he's scum because he shot my FN target when he could have shot Literally Anyone Else

[popsofctown]

JJD if you're town you really need to spend less time thinking/caring about your own slot

[popsofctown]

Marquis is town or will be hard guiltied today. He's a friendly neighbor variant who notifies anyone who joins our hood. We are in fact notified when someone joins the hood. I'm fairly certain there is 1 scum in the cops and one scum in the BP/Doc hoods balance wise. The scum in the cops is probably the sane cop.

Flavor and pops are both town by setup in my eyes.

VOTE: JJD Proving one more day of not voting normally, then unvoting.

So you're implying someone joined your hood last night?

[popsofctown]

gamestate dictates jjd and i are the mislynch candidates for scum. Chandra also never gets in the situation they did with one of us as their scum partner.

Chandra was on and off pushing me depending on how i acted towards her.

I feel I was the main mislynch candidate, and when I wasn’t happening, they pivoted over to JJd, so that means there’s likely a strong player, possibly bingle, with an incorrect read thus making it easy for scum.

There are way too many people ‘cleared unless...’ which there’s always that unless. That is the mark of scum interference.

Scum has been on me, and scum has been on jjd, maybe not voting wise, but push and agenda wise.

It's funny how Chandra's push works as clear only when it's convenient - Chandra was going after our hood, me and ofrhz mostly, but it's you and JJD cleared.

What you can tell about Pops wanting to FN Kagami and Kagami dying same night? I'd believe Pops scum, if she claimed to use ability, but she didn't, so why we don't give another night? But it looks not good for you, as you knew that Kagami was Pops target

No, i didn’t. I told Pops to target me.

And I said "you are not the optimal target" no less than twice

[popsofctown]

And that’s a reason I was leaning Pops scum, though.

So don’t say it doesn’t look good for me when that’s the epitome of surface level play.

Pops easily can be scum, who claimed FN to me so I wouldnt shoot her.

Nope, this was crumbed before you threatened to shoot me. I offered to show you the crumb if it mattered to you, but you didn't ask the five minutes of me at the time, so I didn't.



Next post.

[popsofctown]

I'm bad

No. That was Michael Jackson, God have mercy on his soul.

Aww

@pops: Would you care to engage me now? Would you care to show me your homework? How are your reads progressing so far?

I thought you'd ever pick me

as a player to try to engage, since I'm scumreading you and you seem to think it's misguided. And I feel like my slot has little to do with

where we are going

with this game, I think controversial reads are going to prove more important.
I'll

come back

and

come play

with you tomorrow, trying to get offsite for the rest of the evening if I can manage it. But I think Kagami is pretty scummy for dropping me from his readslist after what seems like no apparent change besides my lynchability, there's a sample.

Well, I think most of my list stands, and people aren't presenting any exciting evidence to the contrary.

I'm fairly happy to lynch any of {fish, jjd, and D1L}. Of the people outside of my list (with offers removed), I would shed a tear or two for pops and marquis, though my sympathy for marquis declines as posting fails to happen.

I would like to hear some exciting insight from croag in the not-so-distant future, and I'm interested in understanding where penguin's head is atm.

I really dislike this lynch list

okay

Amumu's attack and movement quotes from League of Legends:
"Okay"
"Aww"
"Where are we going?"
"Hey, come back"
"Let's find some friends." - THE MISSING LINE IS MY ROLE. Allows me to crumb with very minimal risk of scum being able to decipher the crumb.
"Come play with me"

Amumu's quote when you pick him to play for a game, which I threw in just for anticoincidence: "I thought you'd never pick me".

[popsofctown]

And that’s a reason I was leaning Pops scum, though.

So don’t say it doesn’t look good for me when that’s the epitome of surface level play.

Pops easily can be scum, who claimed FN to me so I wouldnt shoot her.

Nope, this was crumbed before you threatened to shoot me. I offered to show you the crumb if it mattered to you, but you didn't ask the five minutes of me at the time, so I didn't.



Next post.

No
It
Was
Not.

A main part of Day 1 and my push at Pelican was because I specifically crumbed to Pelican that at the time, I was planning to shoot you.

This was a big topic of discussion Day 1, and it’s what the whole “cologne” gambit thing was about on Pelican’s end.

I'm talking about my crumb

[popsofctown]

even though she asked who she should target.

Do you want this to be a misremember or a lie

[popsofctown]

Some of my reads have not been great this game

I got frustrated with Fishmonger lynch not gaining more momentum more quickly when it seemed like it should have.

[popsofctown]

We have plenty of time to wait and find out whether Marquis is scum by mechanic, although I also think he's pretty clearly scum by dayplay.

I'd like to get Flavor Leaf lynched because I can't put together a puzzle of this game where he's town, but if we don't lynch the obvscum I'd like to lynch among the people who can't mechanically confirm themselves town.

[popsofctown]

Marquis can mechanically confirm themselves town.

Flavor Leaf in theory can mechanically confirm himself town yet is actively not doing so and my comment is meant to highlight that extra

so you got about a third of what that's about.

[popsofctown]

This is a drunkpost

Marquis I believe is a "he" I need to correct myself on that lest I be hypocritical.

Separately.

I did not tell Flavor Leaf I scumread him last night. In fact, I don't think I did, until he shot Kagami.

Believe it or not I exist in the plane of time and it is a sequence of dots, connected from beginning to end, and the dots are mutable

I am not a God who has always been, always was, and always will be

I know my choice of avatar might confuse you in that and it is kind of misleading

since Isis gets all stats and all the powers and is both a healer and an attacker and cannot be binded

But believe it or not

I did not 100% scumread FL last night

I distrusted him a bit but didn't outright scumread him

so I did have a dialogue with him about using my ability and if he had presented persuasive points with REASON and LOGIC I might have considered different options

his points were

"omg target me

i'm town

i promise you i will clear you tomorrow

i will clear you tomorrow because I'm town

you should target me
"

He said he probably wasn't dying

he didn't justify it with any kind of reason he should be townread or scumread right now

p sure he just has a fractional input into the factional scum nightkill decision

so

I thought he was more likely to be vig than scum and asked him to move his gun away from my FN target

he didn't do that because he's scum

[popsofctown]

Why did Kagami die?

[popsofctown]

Croag and chennisden are both hard TRs for me and that's already in thread, idk what you're angling at with this

[popsofctown]

Yes I incorrectly townread Chandra most of the game.

Yes Chandra realized she can't have 100% of her townreads be scumpartners.

Yes I defend a player that I think is town from getting lynched, that's mafia.


Flavor Leaf said in the neighbor PT "oh Chandra flipped scum" suggesting he didn't read the pages where she slipped and got lynched. I don't know if he's read them yet. He might think there was more litigating the point than there actually was.

[popsofctown]

Marquis's ability is passive and doesn't require him to submit a night action. So he shouldn't be addicted to caffeine. And he's unshootable.

If he invites 1 new friend to join his neighborhood, either a strong townread or a cop clear, then lynches 1 of Vecna or Bingle, whichever he trusts less, he has a 3 card unkillable townbloc that can lynch everyone else in the game and win as long as he managed to get the scum down to two players by random, honest ways.

The exercise of deciding whether to trust Vecna or Bingle has to be have a losing choices for this to be even remotely balanced. Like I don't understand why the vanilla neighborhood isn't the most confscum neighborhood right now. How these people said their neighborhood is probably entirely town is mystifying.

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If they're both scum that's a loss, and it's not impossible that they're both scum.

It's also a loss if we're bad enough at reading that it takes two lynches for us to find the scum in them. And like. Everyone is bad at reading this game for sure. Chandra was sitting pretty before the slip, I was scumreading Marquis at some point, only dead trees are townreading me, sometimes I hear people say the Gorkington slot can be scum which is heresy

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if Flavor Leaf was a vig who claimed all his kills immediately after making them, at the risk of a tracker, watcher, psychologist, or motion detector contradicting his claims, he could have largely confirmed himself town this game. That is not what he did this game. He has hardclaimed not shooting fish and hardclaimed shooting fish. If a tracker saw that he visited nobody night 1, by golly, there's no new contradiction, we apparently don't lynch FL when he contradicts himself so why should it matter that FL contradicted half of his hardclaims.


If I still haven't used FN yet, it probably has something to do with the caffeine mechanic.
Which is a bit of a duh.

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It nice and all, but I remember you telling scum would kill caffeinated IC on the spot, so why you not want to be nk and save other people from death?

I said that when there 50% more scum than there are now. Scum WERE on track to win on parity. I was rather specific about that comment being in the context of the current gamestate.

Both wincons are relevant now that Chandra (who was part of the four addicts, because a false invest can get reverse engineered into a scumclaim) has died. A solo Mafiosi killing everything down to 2 town caffeine addicts seems far more likely then us going to 3/2 LyLo and -then- just picking the wrong guy.

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Let's look at the maths
With decaf scumz

2 scumz
4 addicts
5 sobers

Scum need 4 mislynches to win on parity.

With only 3 mislynches, they get 4 nightkills, and can direct all four nightkills at sober people. So they win the game if even just one of those 3 mislynches are on a sober people. We can only make the parity win condition equally relevant to the caffeine wincondition if we start letting people selfgovern if they claim to be sober. If both scum are genuinely sober that's a pretty problematic lynch methodology. This assumes no townie uses their night action from here on out btw.



If we have

1 addicted scum
1 sober scum
3 addicts
6 sober

Again parity is a 4 mislynch game. On 3 mislynches, they get 4 nightkills, so 2 of the mislynches need to be sobers. For each scum controlled vig shot in the game, which I am wary of in this high power environment, and for each townie that decides to become addicted, the 2 mislynches on sober condition gets relaxed by 1, it can even be relaxed to zero.

Note that even in this more generous scenario where one of the scums is addicted, even if everyone is totally banned from acting at night but we lynch randomly without really thinking about the caffeine mechanic, on average our mislynches will hit the 2:1 ratio that the scums need to seal the game a mislynch earlier.


I'm pretty paranoid of some kind of mechanic that creates an unexpected caffeine swing where the mafia holding the 1-shot power shows up as non-addicted in all of our counts, and when that power is eventually used, it decreases the number of sobers by one. For example, a 1-shot ability that gives a player a compulsive modifier. Or a 1 shot ability that addicts a player to caffeine. Or for a really down to earth, feel of the soil, close to home example, a 1-shot vigilante who has holstered all game, asking his scum teammates to deal with problematic slots like Kagami, and was visibly setup for endgame by Chandra.

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Bingle might be just scum by mechanics here actually.

Vecna claims he started the game caffeinated. He must have meant it figuratively, he's a compulsive visitor or something. Bingle never made any such claim, despite his very similar role.

D2 we had 4 caffeinated, a startlingly low number. Chandra was one of them. Vecna was another one if he was being truthful. 1 if not 2 of the other cops acted, there's been some ambiguity. Regardless of Bingle's silence on the matter, it is very doubtful Bingle was hooked on the goody goody white white at the start of day 2.

The balance of the setup hinges on an inability to tuck 1 cleared, decaf player in the vanillerizer neighborhood then bloat against the parity win condition with a few other townread or cleared players, turning the game into nightless mafia. I suspect Marquis gets caffeinated under certain conditions. Vecna claimed his deal day 1. We have little explanation how a town!Bingle can be fair for scum. It feels more fair because it's Bingle. But some players you get into that slot, they multivote lolhammer a scum and the game is over.


I see absolutely nothing in the way of a Bingle Flavor solve, but in the cases where Flavor is somehow absurdly obnoxious town it still seems like a Bingle solve. He's expressing concern about the townsidedness of the setup in part because, roleplaying as town, it is immensely townsided when his slot is town. There's some Emperor's New Clothes going on about how his scum alignment made for very viable GTAIV strat that involves mislynching and shooting non-addicts as a punish for strats like the one JJD tried to suggest in his hood.

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If it was not 2 of the other cops, the theory still holds a lot of water since no use of scum PRs is surprising on its own (especially if none of the scum have a passive ability- like multivoter)

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Marquis is only scum when the setup is bonkers and the entire vanilla hood is scum.

Aside from him being the other-miller-who-can-confirm-himself-town he has the towniest dayplay of that hood by far.

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Why is PP town

if you say flavor so help me

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I don't care which goes first but I feel FL's the kind of slot you have to lynch now or else he makes it to endgame because there are always shinier things he can pull out of his ass to talk about.

Can we just lynch him because he's scum who NK-slipped access to my neighborhood PT instead of this waffly garbage that doesn't belong in day 3.


let's roleplay

we're in the scum PT together


Hi Marquis who do you think we should kill. I think killing one of the cops is a good idea, they're really powerful. All of them have unconfirmed sanity, identical abilities. Do you think we should kill croag, who is widely townread, or Kagami, who is widely scumread


ok your next post is part of the roleplay

you can do voices
if you want you can be a drug dealer or a pteradactyl it's roleplay
just get to the part where you convince me to shoot Kagami
with no information about the tiny little square of notebook paper covered in my love for him

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Well part of my reason for scumreading you is dramatically reduced if Marquis shot Kagami

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The scumkill was Pine

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The scumkill n1 was kuribo and n2 it was Pine

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FL, please don't replace into games I'm in.