Baton Pass [Game Over!]

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm not sure what was supposed to be done about that

Do you dispute my assertions about how this game functions mechanically

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm sorry RC, im just upset you never really tried to read me. I figured i could lean on you a bit.

I'm sorry too dude

I have regrets about what I let happen because it was a Hydra and I didn't care

I wanted to seriously consider if LLD could still be scum last game but I never bothered because Hydra

I think that not having responsibility for the outcome in a winrate sense doesn't hurt my reads necessarily but sorta hurts how I apply those reads if that makes sense. I get lazy.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like I would have killed Shoshin no matter what if I were solo.

I think you are getting caught up in what more you can do or should be doing as well as optimal mechanical play, and it's causing you to miss and account for other players.

I don't quite follow?

[RadiantCowbells]

You're not wrong. But I'd argue that I didn't do that outside of D1 this game.

[RadiantCowbells]

And...

If I had truly gone for the solo carry all in on Shoshin D1

I can't convince myself that wouldn't have been a town win.

[RadiantCowbells]

The issue was the order though.

We didn't kill the dangerous scum we picked off the two LHF

[RadiantCowbells]

Ceph Shoshin flips won that game I'm positive.

[RadiantCowbells]

Wis and GP immediately follow and SS eventually just dies as an individual

[RadiantCowbells]

Extending D1 just gives Shoshin more time to be absolutely horrible to me to win a mafia game

[RadiantCowbells]

I think D1 really needed to end like 4 days earlier

Before I got worn out.

[RadiantCowbells]

She kept posting after Wis gp flip

[RadiantCowbells]

Like we finally got the hammer cuz of the shit she was spewing

[RadiantCowbells]

That's not how mafia works. Momentum matters. Timing matters. there's not gonna be a next time, I won't back off the next Hidden Happiness or Shoshin for gamestate health reasons ever again.

[RadiantCowbells]

Shoshin was confscum long before that.

I just wasn't willing to be enough of a dick to kill her through all the townreads on her.

[RadiantCowbells]

I cannot be effective under pressure.

[RadiantCowbells]

I can't.

[RadiantCowbells]

Won't help it's not how my brain works and I don't have a way around it.

[RadiantCowbells]

I can't turn off my omgus tendency without damaging my ability to play mafia

[RadiantCowbells]

I have called Shoshin 100% lockscum on the first few pages of every single game she's been scum, ever. She's never been mislynched in a game where we were t-t.

You're arrogant and stupid if you think that your read on her, whatever it is, whatever your reasons, outweigh that, particularly when she has a staggering tendency to get townread for the most banal shit imaginable.

Idk

I read day one again

Every time I do I'm like

Yeah

You all can get fucked for not listening to me

[RadiantCowbells]

I have gone through her ISO in this game 7 or 8 times now. Every time my conclusion is that these are transparent scumposts with nothing redeeming about them. And yet she still has half the field calling her town for no reason. I don't understand it, it's painful for me, it makes me frustrated and angry, I kinda feel like people are refusing this because they just want to stick it to me even if they know that what I'm saying is true.

[RadiantCowbells]

Honestly I'm remembering why I hammered Oversoul in the first place

If you're pointing fingers at me for this loss and you're not literally gif then you have a problem

[RadiantCowbells]

Wanting to find her partner was BoP, public cop I was just too tired from badtown shitting on my correct read to pursue it.
Honestly I'm getting to the same point in this game where I don't really care if this is a loss if townies let themselves be convinced that I'm an arrogant moron despite how many statistical measures show my competence.

Btw I got back to this post

And then discorded Nancy telling her I wanted to hammer OS

[RadiantCowbells]

I think I can say with fairly high certainty this game ends up being a town loss from here if I don't brute force it onto a better path, but otoh I don't really want to brute force it onto another path.

dont have one and i usually misread her anyway

I was talking to Yukyukz not you because they had this weird engagement with Shoshin because they voted them for saying that Sakura Hana could be scum.

Tadaaa

[RadiantCowbells]

And like

When I kept going after her despite her trust tell

You all started calling me scum and saying shit like "I don't know what my read is on her"

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Shoshin

People scumleaning me literally have no idea to read me. Let me teach you.

Is Oversoul lurking?
If yes, scum.
If no, town.

This concludes our lesson.

Shoshin is conftown in my eyes.

Also Shoshin, congratulations on Peace Corps! That’s amazing.
I applied but I did not get in

Says the person blaming me for the loss when I was calling Shoshin scum btw.

[RadiantCowbells]

I think giving the baton to Shoshin is a joke except it's not at all a funny one.

Why? She has just as high a town winrate as you and the downsides are significantly less.

Cici you get three kills before night, pragmatically you should not be super upset if you don’t get baton.

Shoshin is not a reasonable baton today, I think that's pretty obvious.

I think giving the baton to Shoshin is a joke except it's not at all a funny one.

Why? She has just as high a town winrate as you and the downsides are significantly less.

1) her town winrate is a good bit lower than mine
2) the question isn't that, the question is about is she town and is she likely to get killed and I think she's never a nightkill and i'm not sure if she's town.

Cici you get three kills before night, pragmatically you should not be super upset if you don’t get baton.

I find the idea of Shoshin specifically getting it somewhat offensive to my sensibilities and I'd rather it go to Nacho if it's not going to me.

Shoshin is not a reasonable baton today, I think that's pretty obvious.

Why...?

RC, why don’t you think Shoshin is town at this juncture?

Shoshin scum definitely does not post the ultimatum that she did. Plus she is very much playing to her town meta of not lurking. NSG is a player with the same type of meta. Transparently scum by activity alone.

But nah its my fault we lost right OS?

[RadiantCowbells]

Anyone else living in a glass house want to start casting stones?

[RadiantCowbells]

If all the people who didn't listen to me on Shoshin D1 plan on ignoring someone I say I'm 100% sure is scum and ask to be boped on in a next game feel free to not have a next game.

[RadiantCowbells]

The issue isn't the AtE it's the rulebreaking

[RadiantCowbells]

Like if I threaten to sub out to get Shoshin lynched you can be sure I'd get replaced and banned for it so it's an uneven playing field when she can talk about subbing out as one alignment to townspew and I can't.

[RadiantCowbells]

Past creates the present creates the future and if I didn't get shat on, scumread, accused of policy scumreading her cuz she wasn't voting me and all that jazz maybe I wouldn't have been bullied out of that correct read.

[RadiantCowbells]

Acting like having a scumread and every single townie in the game saying that you're wrong and scumreading you for having that scumread isn't going to influence your read is silly at best.

[RadiantCowbells]

Most of the shitting on me was done by you.

[RadiantCowbells]

The decision was already made that town didn't deserve the win if Shoshin was scum

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean this is just like your 100% read on me and Alchemist right? Get out of here.

Alchemist literally didn't try at all and even he said that. Not really on me to realize he's 0 efforting as town.

On you? idrc

[RadiantCowbells]

Same with Ank like I just don't care that I read people wrong

You because it wasn't about my read on you and what not, Ank because of what their slot had done and the fact that both NKed town lock scumread them

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm not sure how you expect me to respond to that

My official stance remains that this game was lost D1 when everyone refused to scumread Shoshin. I'm not going to blame my partner for something she wasn't a part of.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like it kinda feels to me like you're trying to start shit between me and Nancy

[RadiantCowbells]

Like if you want to know whose reads were whose read the game again I'm not sure what else to say

[RadiantCowbells]

When I say that being in a Hydra handicapped me

I mean that I just don't play the same way because I don't feel as obligated to win and that pressure to win makes me play better

[RadiantCowbells]

That's not the same as blaming Nancy because my Hydra play is different.

It is what it is

[RadiantCowbells]

Tbh I think 99% of that difference

Is that I'm not willing to be an asshole when the situation demands it

[RadiantCowbells]

Ehh 60%

[RadiantCowbells]

That's not how this game works

People are always gonna be looking for some reason to take me down and doing better just exarcebates that.

If anything now that I'm actually performing very consistently people shit on me more. Back when I actually was just a "good" town player people didn't go as far out of their way to shove it in my and others faces that I wasn't actually all that good. Because they didn't feel a need to. Now that I'm actually solving games on D1 consistently, you get this game where the entirety of D1 was people saying to stop worshipping me with no one actually worshipping me and if anything people knee jerk rejecting reads cuz they came from me. Or Firebringer with his I don't want RCs support cuz I want a piece of the pie or whatever.

The thing that pisses people off the most is that I actually am proficient.

[RadiantCowbells]

ya pretty much

Everyone's always voting against me

[RadiantCowbells]

Man I miss being the underdog taking down the old guard with my scum prowess and all that. Being the guy everyone's always voting against is the worst.

[RadiantCowbells]

Even when I'm town and other people know that and are also town they want me to be wrong

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean.

I can't exactly try to be a universal townread or a Nacho style town glue carry because my reputation as scum makes that a thing that is never going to happen

The only real way for me to be a strong town player is by having consistent zd1 scumreads

[RadiantCowbells]

What happens when there's scum in that bloc

Like Shoshin

[RadiantCowbells]

Or me? I mean you've lost to me a dozen ish times simply because you can't townspew as hard as me and you can't get a scumread on me reliably. Sacrificing the ability to be either townier or have a more trustworthy scumread on someone they townread more is a dangerous game.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like if being able to beat me or my ilk as scum isn't important that's fine

But I pride myself on being able to eliminate big game

[RadiantCowbells]

Or me? I mean you've lost to me a dozen ish times simply because you can't townspew as hard as me and you can't get a scumread on me reliably. Sacrificing the ability to be either townier or have a more trustworthy scumread on someone they townread more is a dangerous game.

I can't townspew in your games because I can't get a foothold in them in the first place

and that's true when you're scum AND when you're town

This has been going on a long time and I wasn't always as I am now.n

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't think you'll ever be a threat to me as scum but I do think you will always with reasonable frequency find yourself in gamestates where you scumread me and I'm town.

[RadiantCowbells]

Although the former statement may not even be worth saying anymore

I don't really try as scum anymore. F that noise

[RadiantCowbells]

It wasn't an RC dictatorship

I came up with the reads but they were near universal scumreads

[RadiantCowbells]

Like maybe you could argue it was tyranny of the majority

[RadiantCowbells]

I trusted you to follow me on Shoshin

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't really want to do this
I never decided what my read on you was.

I just... Didn't understand you hard defending all my scumreads

[RadiantCowbells]

My mental game never recovered from early D1.

You can hate me but I don't think it's especially relevant as a predictor of my future reads on you.

[RadiantCowbells]

Whee

[RadiantCowbells]

Ok so let's not play together seems like the best resolution

[RadiantCowbells]

I clearly can't you aren't answering me on discord :v

[RadiantCowbells]

Check it discord

[RadiantCowbells]

bark bark

everyone agrees I'm a dog

[RadiantCowbells]

What sound does a seal make

[RadiantCowbells]

hmm

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't think the Shoshin thing is any more egregious than a lot of behavior that is largely considered par for the course. A lot of the anger in that direction seems to have shown up only ~after~ it was revealed that her slot is Mafia, which doesn't seem consistent with a principled stance on the transgression, and sounds more like sheer frustration at the loss. I personally think this and a great number of other common behaviors should be punished more severely, but that just isn't how the rules are enforced.

There was a specific rule change outlawing what Shoshin did that happened this year.

The issue isn't the attempted townspew it's doing it via threatened replace out

[RadiantCowbells]

Rather I don't think that playing in a game where scum viewed the game as already lost and few players took the game seriously because the odds were that town would win sounds enjoyable at all.

Having recently played scum in a very high swing game swung towards town, it really isn't

tbh most of my favorite scum games of the past that stuck out to me and i've remembered were the batshit townsided ones like gameshow

but i guess that's because i actually felt like i had to use my abilities?

[RadiantCowbells]

fucking oof

[RadiantCowbells]

but yeah

as scum i prefer townsided setups

as town i prefer townsided setups

shrug

[RadiantCowbells]

i played a game where we lynched scum every single day phase and the mod kept changing the rules to make scum win. shotty was the mod

[RadiantCowbells]

drshottymyzik

[RadiantCowbells]

when have we been scum outside of netherspite sorm

[RadiantCowbells]

OH YES THE ONE MB WAS SCUM AND TOWN WOULDNT LET US CROSS BUS LOL

[RadiantCowbells]

MB was the mod*

[RadiantCowbells]

that was a fking riot