Mainstream Mafia II: D&D Edition [FIN]

[Rautherdir]

True, that. But it wasn’t Dongempire’s pagetop, so still false.

[Rautherdir]

Okay then...
The governor shot has an advantage that Bingle didn't bring up earlier.
It gives reads. The whole process of voting for the governor shot, and then later how the person with the shot uses it, generates reads. And I believe that offsets the mechanical disadvantages of the shot.

Having said that, at this stage in the game there's only one role that could effectively use governor in this situation that can get away with claiming right now. And that would still be heavily ill-advised due to the presence of a cult. So if we do give someone the governor shot, we probably won't be doing it for mechanical reasons. And since we haven't had enough time to form good reads yet, the next strategy we could use to give the shot is to give it to someone who can be read somewhat easily to see how and if they use it in the first few days.

So I'm going to VOTE: Creature (I could be convinced into voting for DEB as well.)

[Rautherdir]

rautherdir: we should give governor to someone who can be read easily!
also rautherdir: let's give it to creature or DEB

Both of whom can be read somewhat easily?
Or is Creature no longer easily readable since I last played with them?

[Rautherdir]

I mean, DEB seemed pretty easy to read in my last game. (Then again, he got confed day 2 so... my perception might be inaccurate)
And it has been a while since I played with Creature, so if they're no longer an easy read I guess I'll just UNVOTE: and see what other people think of my strat.

[Rautherdir]

Everyone who posted earlier than me is slightly suspect.

Any logic to this?

I got my PM, said "oh hey, this will be fun when it starts" and then left it to chkflip to tell me when it started because I had nothing to do, no reason to engage with the game.

On the other hand, someone who gets a scum PM has a scum PT and is engaged with the game and waiting for it to start and thus noticed when the nonsense begins. Obviously plenty of people will see it in the Large Theme list and what not, but all equal, anyone who posted before chkflip deigned to tell us the game started gets a mild mark against them.

Or, you know, had the sign-up thread bookmarked and noticed the title for the sign-up thread had changed to say the game was now up. That's also possible.

And I disagree that the cult recruiting the governor shot is an issue, I guess it should be clear that that slot probably won't survive very long. (And since it has a high probability of becoming cult then scum would probably shoot the slot at some point.)
To be clear whoever gets the governor shot is the day 5 lynch if they last that long and cult isn't already accounted for. (Exact day adjustable depending on the number of night kills we end up having at night and whether or not there's an early cult leader death. But yeah, as zoraster said, this is a 40 player game. We can afford a one-shot governor, especially if it allows us to create reads and start discussion before getting into day 1. Suggesting otherwise isn't necessarily alignment indicative considering that it's probably the mechanically correct choice, but I don't think it's the correct choice with all things considered.)

[Rautherdir]

I'm voting for the only person I know is town. I encourage everyone else to do the same.

So, you're asking everyone who isn't scum to vote themselves for governor? I mean, that would be nice if it worked.
Although I'm going to vote for you now for the simple reason of 'we were werewolves together last game'

VOTE: KidAmn

[Rautherdir]

If you guys want you can vote me Governor as I have a confirmable Day Ability.

And?
It isn't day yet.

p-edit:
So... your ability allows you to turn L+1 and up into L-0 ???

[Rautherdir]

If you guys want you can vote me Governor as I have a confirmable Day Ability.

And?
It isn't day yet.

p-edit:
So... your ability allows you to turn L+1 and up into L-0 ???

^ Or do you mean that once a quarter of the playerlist is voting for a player you can get them lynched? Because if so then the governor shot is to prevent you from quick-lynching someone.

[Rautherdir]

... Okay cool.

That probably means there are other vote-manipulation abilities in existence. Which means we definitely want a governor shot to be able to react to that.

[Rautherdir]

What if I were to make a deal and promise to never use my governor shot?
Would that convince some in the "non-voting" block to join me?

Thing is, there is a reason for town to use the governor shot now. If a player gets lynched when majority didn't want it we can stop the lynch with it.

p-edit:
@Nero:
I'm not sure. As I mentioned before, until now the mechanically correct choice was to throw the shot away. With vote-manipulation abilities being confirmed, that's no longer the case. But I'm not sure how to read players who advocated for no shot. It's possible one of them has a vote manipulation ability, or maybe they were just doing the correct-at-the-time choice.

@Bingle:
Hahaha no. I'm not going to read all 39 slots. I will read players that interact with me and that I know from experience how to read, but I won't begin reading all players explicitly until day 3 or 4 probably.

[Rautherdir]

That probably means there are other vote-manipulation abilities in existence. Which means we definitely want a governor shot to be able to react to that.

this.

Assuming TSE is town this likely means that scum have a mirrored role or other vote manipulation roles as he said.

And a good action for scum to do would have been to advocate for the no governor shot... Which is annoying because I previously thought advocating for that was purely NAI.
And of course, TSE could be scum banking on the fact that revealing the ability early would get them read as not scum.

[Rautherdir]

Well, I haven’t really read much since my last post, so... yeah. I have read the posts made since day started though
I suppose I should clarify that before I posted the discussion so far was ‘Let’s get rid of the no gov shot as quickly as possible’ and it would be easy for scum to slip under the radar. Bingle immediately stifled any discussion on that matter, and from what I have read is still espousing misinformation regarding, for example, the Cult Q&A; and is using it to make reads on players. This is not a good trait for someone who is also trying to control the town.
VOTE: Bingle

[Rautherdir]

Spoiler: 3 post Scumread on Rauth

Okay then...
The governor shot has an advantage that Bingle didn't bring up earlier.
It gives reads. The whole process of voting for the governor shot, and then later how the person with the shot uses it, generates reads. And I believe that offsets the mechanical disadvantages of the shot.

Having said that, at this stage in the game there's only one role that could effectively use governor in this situation that can get away with claiming right now. And that would still be heavily ill-advised due to the presence of a cult. So if we do give someone the governor shot, we probably won't be doing it for mechanical reasons. And since we haven't had enough time to form good reads yet, the next strategy we could use to give the shot is to give it to someone who can be read somewhat easily to see how and if they use it in the first few days.

So I'm going to VOTE: Creature (I could be convinced into voting for DEB as well.)

I mean, DEB seemed pretty easy to read in my last game. (Then again, he got confed day 2 so... my perception might be inaccurate)
And it has been a while since I played with Creature, so if they're no longer an easy read I guess I'll just UNVOTE: and see what other people think of my strat.

Everyone who posted earlier than me is slightly suspect.

Any logic to this?

I got my PM, said "oh hey, this will be fun when it starts" and then left it to chkflip to tell me when it started because I had nothing to do, no reason to engage with the game.

On the other hand, someone who gets a scum PM has a scum PT and is engaged with the game and waiting for it to start and thus noticed when the nonsense begins. Obviously plenty of people will see it in the Large Theme list and what not, but all equal, anyone who posted before chkflip deigned to tell us the game started gets a mild mark against them.

Or, you know, had the sign-up thread bookmarked and noticed the title for the sign-up thread had changed to say the game was now up. That's also possible.

And I disagree that the cult recruiting the governor shot is an issue, I guess it should be clear that that slot probably won't survive very long. (And since it has a high probability of becoming cult then scum would probably shoot the slot at some point.)
To be clear whoever gets the governor shot is the day 5 lynch if they last that long and cult isn't already accounted for. (Exact day adjustable depending on the number of night kills we end up having at night and whether or not there's an early cult leader death. But yeah, as zoraster said, this is a 40 player game. We can afford a one-shot governor, especially if it allows us to create reads and start discussion before getting into day 1. Suggesting otherwise isn't necessarily alignment indicative considering that it's probably the mechanically correct choice, but I don't think it's the correct choice with all things considered.)

First of all, there's so much waffle in these posts I thought I'd walked into a Denny's. Second, he rambles on about explaining exactly why he's doing what he's doing, which makes me think he's very concerned about how people see him and not too concerned about how he sees other people. He's doing this for reads, apparently, but when I've repeatedly asked for people to explain how the existence of a governor gives reads he's been silent. (And yes, this conversation has given the opportunity to read people, but no more than a normal D1 would. And it's certainly caused a lot more thread apathy because of people sitting on their hands doing nothing waiting for the real game to start.)

As soon as he receives pushback on the idea, he drops it with a "I guess I can see what people think of my idea." Unvoting at L-20. Which shows a real commitment to using it as a mechanic to scumhunt.

Further, as soon as zor comes in with a similar sentiment, he jumps right back into the same thing, but the tone isn't "I believe this thing" but rather "Look, someone else believes this thing! I'm not SCUMMY!" And even still, while blatantly hiding behind zor's agreement, he feels the need to defend himself from zor's thought that people who joined the thread early were more likely to be scum.

tl;dr, quickhammer no governor so we can lynch this.

A: Your first point makes no sense. If I was concerned about how people would see me I would have just voted no gov. But instead I took a position I could never actually justify, just so that conversation about it could be spurred.

B: That was specifically regarding voting Creature for governor.

C: Try 'Please stop scum-reading this person who believes a similar thing.' And the first part of that third post was just me refuting that stance because it isn't exactly a solid argument. You know, interacting with people, helping them see the flaws in their logic.

[Rautherdir]

I mean sure? I don't really see why Amrun is obv scum though but I'm not necessarily opposed to the wagon.

VOTE: Amrun

Lots of posturing and trying to look like she’s doing something without really doing much of anything

Quite a lot of empty posting in her ISO

Hmm, not sure I agree with this. Then again I only skimmed Amrun's iso. I would probably place her in the 'can sort later' bucket, not the 'lynch now' bucket.

[Rautherdir]

^ Town can do empty posting indefinitely. I now have personal experience that it's much more difficult to keep up as scum. Sort method could be as simple as 'see if she can keep it up'

[Rautherdir]

Creature is being town!Creature from what I remember of him. I really don't like the push on him. At least people are being honest about their intention's with the push on Creature though.

[Rautherdir]

Menal is... interesting. He took the unpopular and very attention-getting action of voting himself for governor and did it quite seriously. I see Menal as being less likely to be group-scum right now, but maybe 3p or cult leader.

[Rautherdir]

Okay, parts of that definitely aren't great. They aren't lynch-worthy either though.

Also, specifically starting it with 2353 when I had just made 2652? Really?

Honestly what annoys me most about Amrun's ISO is that it's hard to tell what or who she's talking about sometimes. But I'm not sure that's something scum would risk.

[Rautherdir]

Menal is... interesting. He took the unpopular and very attention-getting action of voting himself for governor and did it quite seriously. I see Menal as being less likely to be group-scum right now, but maybe 3p or cult leader.

Err excuse u I was the most popular vote before FF took away our democratic rights

Voting someone for governor wasn't a popular opinion at the time you did it.

p-edit:
So, was Amrun saying she was willing to kill me in that post, or willing to kill Bingle?

[Rautherdir]

Activity overview, lower right corner of the screen above the Jump to

[Rautherdir]

To clarify my stance on Amrun since Menal seems to think I haven't given it already, at no point am I going to say that Amrun is probably town today. (Barring something unforeseen happening)
My read on Amrun is very much 'will be able to sort later' right now. If Amrun is scum I doubt she will be able to keep up this posting style.

[Rautherdir]

I didn't know gov elections ended

VOTE: amrun

So, you didn't notice that the title for the thread had changed from pre-day election to D1?

Even if Amrun can keep up this posting, she just grows more readable as time goes on if she continues posting. If she is scum it will become obvious sooner or later. I don't think it's obvious at the moment.

[Rautherdir]

Hmm, anyone mind if I continue semi-blindly sheeping Flavor Leaf for the rest of day 1?

VOTE: Doctor Drew

Semi blindly because if I do ever disagree with him on a vote I'll make sure to point it out and figure out a better vote.

[Rautherdir]

I suppose getting 21 votes must be pretty hard

11 with TSE here. Which means anyone voting TSE needs to somehow get 10 more votes then they otherwise probably would.

And honestly, with this many players and this little time, sheeping is inevitable. (And if Flavor Leaf actually is Jester then at least I'm not sheeping scum per-se.)

[Rautherdir]

Also, TSE needs to be dead before cult with him recruited could auto-win. Which would be day 5? Or day 4?
Or the cult leader needs to be dead by then.

[Rautherdir]

Actually, as long as town has a vig by then it wouldn't matter, would it. Or honestly as long as scum is still around if they have a nk.

[Rautherdir]

Menal is... interesting. He took the unpopular and very attention-getting action of voting himself for governor and did it quite seriously. I see Menal as being less likely to be group-scum right now, but maybe 3p or cult leader.

Nice take, feel inclined to agree but not sure yet.
Could you go into the equity of that behavior for town, groupscum, 3P, and Cult?

In order of what I believe to be most likely to what I believe to be least likely
3p<survivor>: Survivor won't really be worried about the negative aspects of the governor shot for town. I see Menal being survivor as being about equally likely as being town.
Town: Town could also go for the governor shot, just because they can. It really isn't the best play for town to seriously go for, but it's something a town player could do.
3p<sk>: A serial killer doesn't have a particularly good reason to get the governor shot, however when Menal first voted himself for it he was under the assumption he could govern his own lynch, which a sk would want to have.
Cult Leader: It's a bit of a gambit to go for the governor shot as cult leader, it's a move that could get you killed by scum, or it could get you left alive by scum. Avoiding getting lynched for it might be difficult, but since cult leader can just recruit the people that would prove influential to whether that happens or not it isn't anywhere near impossible. In addition, I don't know if many people would know how to best play cult leader, saying that it isn't the best play for cult leader might not mean very much if Menal doesn't actually know how to best play cult leader.
Group-Scum: Maybe. But personally I believe most group scum at that point in time would instead either not vote someone or vote no governor.

Okay, parts of that definitely aren't great. They aren't lynch-worthy either though.

Also, specifically starting it with 2353 when I had just made 2652? Really?

Honestly what annoys me most about Amrun's ISO is that it's hard to tell what or who she's talking about sometimes. But I'm not sure that's something scum would risk.

How is being vague with people discussed a risk?

People can point to statements Amrun made and claim she said something she didn't. It is a playstyle thing in reality, I would just expect a scum-team to coach her out of it.

[Rautherdir]

I know that Nero Cain is unaligned with me.

^lie detector fodder, not a claim. I’m willing to make the same statement about any other slot on request.

You know lie detector can work with groups, right? So you could post a list of people and ask if they're all the same alignment. Or if they need to be dead for town to win. That would work better, actually, in case there's a survivor or similar.

[Rautherdir]

I know that Nero Cain is unaligned with me.

^lie detector fodder, not a claim. I’m willing to make the same statement about any other slot on request.

You know lie detector can work with groups, right? So you could post a list of people and ask if they're all the same alignment. Or if any of them need to be dead for town to win. That would work better, actually, in case there's a survivor or similar.

EBWOP

[Rautherdir]

I know that Nero Cain is unaligned with me.

Actually, this wouldn't work unless you are cult or scum. Since there is a cult, then even if you had a cop investigation on someone you wouldn't be able to tell if that investigation was still valid (And thus wouldn't know if that person is still aligned with you or not).

[Rautherdir]

Lie detector can only really work on scum this game. Town can only reliably claim information about their own role. Scum would know other people's roles, but only if they're fellow scum or not. Since there's a cult then scum can't say whether or not a non-fellow is town or not. So...

How about everyone claims a list of 9 other slots that they know they are not aligned with. This is meant for scum, after scum flips the lie detector can test that post to either get 9 confirmed not scum or a pool of 9 players that definitely have scum in them. It does not help catch cult, since lie detector only tests the truth of the statement when it was made.

I guess I'll go ahead and start.
I know that none of these slots are aligned with me:
01 Pine
07 Korina
15 Bingle
21 Dr Easy Bake
24 davesaz
28 Hectic
35 Creature
37 Flavor Leaf
38 KidAmn

p-edit
@Bingle: Yeah, realized that wasn't how it worked after posting.

[Rautherdir]

Lie detector is basically town/not-town cop if played correctly but generally has to out early in order for useful results to be possible most of the time. And considering there's a cult so the lie detector can't really reliably confirm players as town permanently, it isn't as horrendously unbalanced as it can be in most games.

Also, Town and Cobble are synonymous for all I care about.

p-edit
Yeah, but it still confirms whether or not there's scum within a smaller list of players. Plus it probably won't be 9 players by the time it gets tested, since there will almost definitely be night-kills. Although it could also be a smaller list. Like, two or three players in the list, along with a separate statement of Town/Cobble alignment until we do get a scum flip.
Also, it's only 40 posts on day 1.

p-edit2:
Pretty sure chocolate isn't enough. I don't know for sure though, just guessing it isn't.

[Rautherdir]

I am Cobble aligned.

[Rautherdir]

vork and wooper are less scummy than tse bb

Is he the one with the ability to lynch a wagon when it’s at half?

Cause yeah that’s 100% a scum ability so I’m not opposed

Why does he out it if he is scum? Why not take that hit and try to argue wifom?

Let me respond by asking how would you use it more then once unless you out it early?
That ability would get obvious very quickly...
(This is assuming there are other kills floating around so that scum!TSE saving it to create an unexpected LYLO wouldn't reliably work. Or if the ability is compulsive.)

[Rautherdir]

heybbmolla remember when you said this?

This thread is moving so fast no one will notice when I say I like sleeping naked

Someone should lie detector that post that’s all I will say

... Considering both of those posts require information the moderator (probably) doesn't have, that would be a waste. But I like how we keep bringing up this thing when we could be talking about other things.

[Rautherdir]

vork and wooper are less scummy than tse bb

Is he the one with the ability to lynch a wagon when it’s at half?

Cause yeah that’s 100% a scum ability so I’m not opposed

Why does he out it if he is scum? Why not take that hit and try to argue wifom?

For towncred “too scummy for me to claim as scum”

And to avoid lying

I’ve claimed numerous scummy as fuck abilities just to be able to be truthful and seem helpful

Well, why don't we use him while we can and see what happens. Is he a one shot?

I'm guessing it's either x-shot or compulsive. Either is balanced.

[Rautherdir]

Why are we assuming there’s a lie detector? Have I missed something?

That seems like a lot of shit to sort through on the off chance that someone is a lie detector who wants to detect that particular post.

Trust me, the lie detector will probably be keeping notes on posts of interest. Which does mean they have to read the game, but that's a price they should be willing to pay.

Completely coincidentally, I will be keeping notes on these posts as well, and can keep tabs on how many of these claims have occurred throughout each day.

[Rautherdir]

Like what affect does that have on the lie detector is there a legitimate cobble alignment?

Umm...

Can you look at your role pm and tell everyone what your alignment is?

Formatted as 'I am X-aligned' or 'I am aligned with X' with nothing else in the post, please.

[Rautherdir]

Like what affect does that have on the lie detector is there a legitimate cobble alignment?

Umm...

Can you look at your role pm and tell everyone what your alignment is?

Formatted as 'I am X-aligned' or 'I am aligned with X' with nothing else in the post, please.

Suspicious af/coaching.

Try 'worried there are other alignments that are technically town aligned'
Because I was already worried about that. The phrasing in my role pm was a bit weird about alignment.

p-edit:
Just post 'I am death aligned' with nothing else in the post then.

[Rautherdir]

Also like... post 1 includes that town = cobble aligned so it doesnt mean anything if someone doesnt know

Post 1 had a presumably town flip that was Cobble Aligned. Most of us have already posted that we are Cobble Aligned. That does not mean that every town-aligned player is also cobble-aligned.

p-edit
Actually, Miss Lynch if you could also confirm if your wincon is a standard 'win when all threats to town are eliminated' or similar? Just a 'my win condition allows me to win with town' or similar would be great. That would be better to check instead of just checking to see if you are aligned with death.

p-edit 2:
Yeah, from now on we should either post 'I am cobble aligned' or 'my win condition allows me to win with town'

[Rautherdir]

^ Most of us who are currently active, lol.

[Rautherdir]

The flavor talks about a nearby town called "Cobble." I guess I was supposed to extrapolate that?

I win when specific people are dead in a specific way. I'd like to not talk too much more about it.

Yeah, you don't get to not talk about it now. You specifically just claimed not town and my wincon says I win when all anti town forces are defeated.

Sounds like you're one of those forces needing defeated. Taking down scum would boost my power significantly...

Miss Lynch didn't claim not town. Miss Lynch claimed not Cobble. My win condition does not say to eliminate all threats to Cobble, it says to eliminate all threats to town. There's obviously a difference.

[Rautherdir]

anything interesting going on in here or can I keep prodging until I have nothing better to do

Well at the very least you could make a post containing 'I am cobble-aligned' and nothing else unless you're benevolent 3p.

[Rautherdir]

-snip-

A) this doesn't work how you think itndoes
B) thanks for scumclaiming if you know you're not aligned with me

VOTE: Vote:Rautherdir

Soul read was correct

A) Yeah, you're absolutely correct in that I had no idea how it actually works. It's not like I've ever had Lie Detector in a game with me before.
B) I was making an example list specifically composed of players I've played games with or players who moderated a game I was in. The entire point of the list was for a lie detector to check after someone flips scum, to prove whether or not the list was correct. The list posts made by town wouldn't be helpful though, as you did (semi-)correctly note that only scum would know who is and isn't aligned with them. But it isn't like scum would do these lists voluntarily, so everyone would have to do it to force scum to either follow along or be notably outstanding. The catch is, there are roles that would allow town to know the alignments of other players. Full cop, for example. There are also roles that would know or could reasonably assume that there are no other players aligned with them, but not be scum, in this game most 3rd party roles will probably count as that. I guess the final point is that I was trying to figure out the best way to use the lie detector power.

C) (to Bingle) Quotes are fine as long as they are unaltered. You're basically saying 'This person said this' so as long as that is actually the case (it's unaltered) it would evaluate as true.

[Rautherdir]

And last but not least.

TSE is still scum but I agree with Bingle, we could leash his power for today.

So let's play a game people: inspired by the one and only, the tree we all love and hate, Mr. Pine himself, I'm giving my vote to the best offer I get. This will be revoked if the winner asks me to vote for one of my 24 townreads, that's the only exception I'm making. Be creative!

Notice this. I wanna play

Hopefully your opinion on me changes in the future.
As my rolecard is “Blue” not “Red”.

... Don't you mean "Blue" not "Green"?
Green was the flipped scum color.

[Rautherdir]

i know nothing

ur the one talking about day actions

Never said a bunch.
I said probably some.
Not a Bunch.

I mean, considering how rare day actions tend to be I would say 'more then 1' is a bunch.

[Rautherdir]

I mean, considering how rare day actions tend to be I would say 'more then 1' is a bunch.

Dayvig
Double voter
Gouvernor
Daycop
Gladiator
Vengeful

Just to name a few

Double voter is usually triggered, not day.
Vengeful is also triggered, not day.
How rare are the rest of those? Dayvig is the only one I hear about regularly. Or Desperado.

p-edit
Had a Desperado shoot a Friendly Neighbor in my last game. Though to be fair said Friendly Neighbor was... not exactly immediately believable until after that shot.

[Rautherdir]

Oh, I was saying day actions. Yeah, technically voting is a day action.

[Rautherdir]

So, day actions are common as dirt.
I really should have been talking about day roles/powers.

[Rautherdir]

Yeah, that or triggered. (Though most triggered actions can still normally only happen during a specific phase.)

There's also 'at any time' abilities every once in a while.

p-edit
I'm still sheeping Flavor Leaf right now. If it gets closer to end of day I might change my mind about that though.

[Rautherdir]

My thoughts on Amrun haven't changed much from 'not lynchworthy but worth keeping an eye on'
Although their reaction to the lie detector setup wasn't great.

[Rautherdir]

Daycop is not the same as dayvig, dong.

[Rautherdir]

No, I haven't explicitly claimed yet. (Although I'm not sure if it would even be a good idea to claim that ability if scum are likely to possess additional targetable abilities, would probably be wiser to claim pgo instead of the actual role.)

[Rautherdir]

Thinking about DD...
A Lie Detector can hit a post made by a PGO and not get killed by the PGO, right?

[Rautherdir]

Lie detector was in the precursor to this game, not a recent game...

[Rautherdir]

Unofficial

vote count

Vorkuta (10) - Nero Cain, Miss Lynch, davesaz, gobbledygook, Bingle, RCEnigma, Creature, Formerfish, BBmolla
Doctor Drew (8) - Flavor Leaf, Rautherdir, EspressoPatronum, chennisden, AaronFrost, Wooper, Gamma Emerald, Cephrir
Creature - Firebringer, zoraster, Untrod Tripod, Vorkuta
Amrun - Dongempire, Iconeum, Hectic
Untrod Triped - InsideJob711, Pink Ball, TrueSoulEnergy
Flavor Leaf - Dr Easy Bake, Doctor Drew
TrueSoulEnergy - Chemist1422
Rautherdir - KidAmn
Menalque - Virgo the Immaculate
Miss Lynch - Pine
Almost50 - Menalque

[Rautherdir]

VOTE: Rautherdir

This is still correct.

If by correct you mean proven wrong, then sure.

Anyone voting me should probably be voting RCE instead if they're serious.

(Honestly not sure if scum would make a push on me for that reason though)

Also, not going to be sheeping Flavor Leaf anymore. Probably sheep Bingle after he moves off of TSE. Or maybe 37 people alive is low enough to figure this out myself, who knows.

[Rautherdir]

Why are you asking us what YOU did?

K let me rephrase
WHO did I

inappropriately touch

do stuff to during night time?

Reminder that the 'who' part is RNG'd

Does night flavor not have any hints?

[Rautherdir]

Well, something happened to (probably) me in the flavor, though that honestly might have just been the daycop.

Anyone against doing a race claim for all?

[Rautherdir]

It was a shame to see several of us ignoring the evidence indicating Rautherdir's innocence.

I still thought we should get rid of the boastful guy, and not at all due to the Drew flip. That wasn't where he'd shown his true colors. He'd said suspicious things the previous day, and now his threats to the integrity of the game were proving a distraction. Plus, at the end of the day, I just plain didn't like him and wanted him off the case.

If the second part is also talking about me, then please realize that other then voting Flavor Leaf for claiming 3p, KidAmn has only been voting me, and hasn't really contributed very much. KidAmn is locked onto me and I'd rather they actually look at other people instead of voting in the same place nearly all the time for no reason other then a soul read.

[Rautherdir]

Reminder that the 'who' part is RNG'd

Is this something we're supposed to know already?

I mean, Vork only claimed it around 3 to 5 times throughout the day, so... depends on how much you were reading the game.

p-edit
Alright cool. Who was it talking about then?

[Rautherdir]

(You're talking about TSE, aren't you.)

... Honestly I was a bit surprised TSE wasn't the night kill. A town executioner could be difficult to control for as scum. Then again, so could a gladiator, so... That doesn't really point either way. The watcher actually died using their ability... I should probably look and see if they crumbed who they targeted.

[Rautherdir]

Where?
Was that in pre-day 1? Because I actually have been reading day 1 and I didn't see any such claim.

[Rautherdir]

Can someone explain the TSE hate please?

It's not like he came out of left field with the execute, and it feels like people are trying to blame him for their own wrong read on Drew (mine included). Pre-flip I was just grateful to have the day done so we could get some info, which we have now. But I don't think that info makes TSE look worse.

He threatened to post his role pm.

Also, his kill flavor was spider, which seems off. In and of itself, not lynchworthy. Cheating is.

Otherwise, I agree with you.

Outside of tunnelhate in this moment, I’m definitely fine with the rauth wagon.

...
Now I'm starting to wonder if I'm being pushed as a counter-wagon on an 'easy' target and scum are only reading their pt before following along and not reading the main thread first.

[Rautherdir]

I just noted that I was cleared by a day cop. It's earlier on this page.

[Rautherdir]

Outside of tunnelhate in this moment, I’m definitely fine with the rauth wagon.

...
Now I'm starting to wonder if I'm being pushed as a counter-wagon on an 'easy' target and scum are only reading their pt before following along and not reading the main thread first.

What even is this post

It's me wondering how so many people seem to be fine with me being an alternative lynch. And also me wondering how you didn't notice either me or Cehprir noting that I'm cleared.

p-edit
Yeah, Formerfish was A Nameless Orc, Cobble-aligned Gladiator.

p-edit 2
He just posted.

[Rautherdir]

I just noted that I was cleared by a day cop. It's earlier on this page.

Where exactly was this?

Since my goal with bringing this up is to get you to read the game, I'm just going to tell you to read RCEnigma's ISO to find it.

[Rautherdir]

... Why would someone roleblock a day role?

[Rautherdir]

Still, I don't remember you claiming anything like that. Although to be fair, I just realized it's possible that scum has a roleblock that can extend into day, so...

[Rautherdir]

I'd expect there to be other usable-in-day abilities if scum does have a roleblock like that, actually. Also, nice that the roleblock got noticed without impacting anything serious. (And I think we can assume it's a scum roleblock considering they picked a cop to use it on. Either that or someone decided to roleblock you without looking to see if you had claimed... Or doesn't have control over who they hit...... Hmm.)

p-edit
Yeah, EP is probably town. (I'm going to have to start making a reads list soon, aren't I.)

Also, just realized, who had Formerfish been wanting to kill? Because a gladiator is in a unique position to 'force' kills, but scum only has to worry about it if they're caught in the gladiate. (Or maybe scum thought they wouldn't be able to keep on FF's good side, who knows.)

[Rautherdir]

Hmm, Vork, Gamma, wooper, and maybe UT, zoraster, Pine or Menalque were the last few people to get scum-read by FF. Taking Zoraster off due to InsideJob's presumably weak hider clearing him, that leaves Vork, Gamma, wooper, and maybe UT, Pine, or Menalque as being FF's last reads.

And you know what. I think we should see if FF was right on Vork. (I could be swayed to Gamma, wooper, UT, or Pine as well. Menalque would take a good case.)
VOTE: Vorkuta

[Rautherdir]

For the sake of the argument lets just say that EP is obvtown. How then could he possibly be scum? If only there was a mechanic that changed people's alignments. I tried.

Oh. Yeah, that's a thing.

(To be fair, in my last game the cult recruit was a revive.)

[Rautherdir]

So, logically that makes me a prime target for culting as well. Except when considering how many people seem to have missed the fact that I was cleared.
Bingle would also be a decent recruit, as would Gobbles.

[Rautherdir]

Cult can only recruit X times, where X is the number of nights the cult leader is alive and unblocked.

[Rautherdir]

And yeah, I agree.
If we were going to try to lynch the cult recruit, we would probably end the day stringing up the friendly neighbor. Which is generally considered a bad idea.

[Rautherdir]

It was funny how Korina's desires were a self-unfulfilling prophecy.

Except when it comes around to night 2, when cult can recruit Korina with impunity because Korina implied he would actually start playing the game on day 3.

... Which is kind of what I was going to do for the simpler reason of being too lazy to attempt sorting 39 other players including multiple post-heavy players, but then things happened and I started playing the game in earnest a bit earlier then I had originally intended. (at least now it's only 36 other players, and really kind of only 34 since I believe Gobbles and RCE to be town... Yeah I'm going to just start assembling a list now.)

p-edit:
My point was that we probably shouldn't try lynching the recruit. A supporting point is that if I remember correctly from the Cult Q&A Cult leader dies after attempting to recruit scum, so hopefully that happens eventually.

[Rautherdir]

Preliminary Reads List:
In spoilers because it's a bit large.

Spoiler:

Town
Rautherdir

Town or Cult recruit
RCE
Gobbledygook
Bingle
InsideJob711
Zoraster
Creature
Cephrir
EspressoPatronum
Pink Ball

Maybe Town
KidAmn
Amrun
Nero Cain

3p
Miss Lynch
Flavor Leaf

Not Cult
Korina

Maybe Scum
Gamma Emerald (Formerfish Association)
Wooper (Formerfish Association)
Pine (Formerfish Association)
Untrod Tripod (Various reasons, including Formerfish Association)

Probably Scum
Vorkuta (Various reasons, including Formerfish Association and being the counterwagon to Drew)

I'm not sure if the recruit would happen before hider, if it would then Zoraster can be full town for today. (Considering they weren't town read I might go ahead and do that anyways in future lists.)
Also, anyone want me to do another unofficial vote count?

[Rautherdir]

being the counterwagon to Drew

I shook my head sadly. Was this really what society had come to?

It's a new reason. I'm not listing any of the older reasons. And no, it's not an especially good reason. (And I probably should have phrased it as Drew being the counterwagon to Vork, in retrospect.)

[Rautherdir]

Still, I kind of doubt Zoraster would have been a good recruit target. (Or would cult be hitting the middle of the list instead?)

[Rautherdir]

It was funny how Korina's desires were a self-unfulfilling prophecy.

Except when it comes around to night 2, when cult can recruit Korina with impunity because Korina implied he would actually start playing the game on day 3.

What? When did I? If anything, I'd start playing when there's like 20ish players left, or if someone asks me something. Otherwise, I'm just gonna lurk and bitch about not rolling cult.

I fucking hate that I didn't roll cult, fml. I just fucking wanna roll cult.

You implied it would be day 2 by explicitly listing what you would do for day start not rolling cult and also day 1 not getting recruited.
But then again that's just an implication.

[Rautherdir]

@rauth: Sorry for missing that. That claim from RCE is very unclear and fragmented, but regardless, definitely don’t want to lynch in that direction today. Good cop target too so that seems town on both ends.

Yeah, I'm kind of terrible at towning on day 1. Only real exception to that was my last game... where I was scum.

[Rautherdir]

Was FF actually SRing me bc I don’t remember that?

When I say maybe, it means to some extent I'm not sure if FF was actually scum reading you or not, but it could appear as if he was.

[Rautherdir]

4700 and 4735 are the ones where it could seem like FF was (beginning to) scum read you
I mean, there's a reason I didn't make anything of it. It's just a conclusion I could see being drawn, even if I would personally dispute that conclusion.

[Rautherdir]

The goal isn't to find who Formerfish was scumreading, The goal is to find people who could conceivably think Formerfish was scumreading them or a partner or who could begin to scumread them or a partner.

[Rautherdir]

Formerfish and I were duo queuing together, like that was blatantly obvious a kill to stop us from dominating the game

Wouldn't scum have just killed you instead if that was the case?

I mean, except Formerfish was definitely a gladiator... See, the problem with drawing associations through other possible night kills is that Formerfish was a good scum kill in terms of both role and how town-read he was. (Although that does probably mean scum didn't think they could pull off a lynch on Formerfish. Which I find somewhat interesting because all it takes is Formerfish making a bad gladiate and town deciding to not no-lynch.)
And then there's the other kill. Which we don't really know anything about because it was a bodyguard protect and Chemist didn't soft their target. Maybe it was a vig on someone Chemist townread. Maybe it's an SK. Maybe cult has a kill. Who knows.

[Rautherdir]

FOS: Raus

Let me know if y’all see it

See, at this point I think I'm just going to assume that everyone will scum read me regardless of any and all clears there may be. I could probably be an IC and it wouldn't matter.

p-edit
Does lynch all liars work if the person lying knows people will know they're lying?

[Rautherdir]

FOS: Raus

Let me know if y’all see it

See, at this point I think I'm just going to assume that everyone will scum read me regardless of any and all clears there may be. I could probably be an IC and it wouldn't matter.

p-edit
Does lynch all liars work if the person lying knows people will know they're lying?

I don’t lie, I just state things that aren’t true completely straight faced.

I’m the reaction test gold standard bearer

Well if you were meaning that as a reaction test, then I'm sorry but at least 4 other people have already called me scum today. And I have a daycop clear from the day before because of RCE. And a (probably) watcher claim from KidAmn saying I wasn't culted. And I keep having to bring this up for some reason. (Well, I never got to bring up the KidAmn part before. I also won't ever bring that part up again either, so...)

p-edit
Survivor does have the advantage of being a bad cult recruit. Since, ya know, they can already win with cult.

[Rautherdir]

I thought FL’s gov push was agenda-y in ways that neither mine nor vork’s were

I think that’s where I initially started feeling iffy about him

To be fair, FL claimed he could win by getting the Governor shot, and otherwise was a survivor. But then again, it's FL, so...

[Rautherdir]

Thanks for finishing that sentence, RCE.

p-edit
@Korina:
Yeah. Pretty early on too, considering I saw it.

@FL:
See, I'm just going to keep you in my 3p bin and refuse to sort you until LYLO now.

[Rautherdir]

(Or maybe I saw the claim quoted in day 1. I can't see it in early game now that I look.)

p-edit
Which one? I kind of forgot everything I was doing due to FL being... himself.

[Rautherdir]

I mean, I feel like we would be townblocking, except for some unknown internal friction between you and Menal.

p-edit
Because I can't think of a better explanation?

[Rautherdir]

Ah, Korina. I'm personally fine with leaving him as the sole inhabitant of my Not Cult bucket for now. Mostly because I have no idea how to read Korina, and his current actions are probably only indicative of him... not being cult.

p-edit
... Yeah I'm not going to ask about what happened there. (I am going to guess you were on different teams and somehow 'pocketed' each other.)

[Rautherdir]

Umm... wouldn’t TSE’s execute count as a killing power?

[Rautherdir]

(TSE isn’t in that list, now that I read the list and not the comments under it)

[Rautherdir]

I would prefer Vork over Virgo. I’m not sure that’s enough info to move Virgo out of being a lurker lynch. I mean, personally I see UT and Pine as being equally likely to be the culprit.

[Rautherdir]

I thought I was the Official Counterwagon. Or maybe Flavor Leaf. Anyways, there should be a vote count recently, I'll see what the tally is.

[Rautherdir]

Well, there's a 'going-to-be-a-votecount' recently...
This might seem somewhat redundant after that evolves.

Unofficial

Vote Count

TrueSoulEnergy

(8) - pisskop, Miss Lynch, BBmolla, Untrod Tripod, Gamma Emerald, Firebringer, EspressoPatronum, chennisden

Virgo the Immaculate

(5) - Amrun, wooper, Cephrir, Menalque, Iconeum

Flavor Leaf

- Vorkuta, gobbledygook, Dr Easy Bake

Vorkuta

- Rautherdir, Nero Cain, Bingle

Rautherdir

- InsideJob711, Creature

EspressoPatronum

- TrueSoulEnergy? (Not sure how to count 5442)

Elements

- Pink Ball

[Rautherdir]

Is that turkey trying letting me know something night related without breaking character?

Why do you ask, is there something the turkey could have seen happen at night?

[Rautherdir]

If someone came up right now with a cop guilty on another player in the game and the ping pong paddle immediately confirmed you were town in the next post, it still wouldn't surprise me if you were lynched first, TSE.

That’s not the right motivation.

When a Town is confirmed, you don’t lynch them.
What exactly do you hate about me? LOL.

Funny that you say this while voting me.

[Rautherdir]

Amrun would you be able to repeat the investigation with a different set of players? And then just put part of the first set in the second set so we can narrow down where the culprit is?
I mean right now I could be swayed to vote UT or Virgo. I just prefer the Vork wagon at the moment.

p-edit
So Virgo, could you explain why UT is obvtown? Because I don't see that.

p-edit2
Try lock-benevolent-3p.
Which is close to lock-town, to be fair.

[Rautherdir]

scum Mastina, as a gladiator, outted her power and continued to hold town hostage with it.

I claimed mafia suicide bomber once. Lynched the town who CCed me. That was fun.

VOTE: TSE

I'll await my execution now, you got your vote.

Is this a scum claim or what? You could claim, if town? Do you have anything to share?


This makes me want to lynch it more. Kinda concerned it’s town giving up but cannot bank on that right now.

There are town roles that should never claim, you know. Super saint as an example. Really almost any role where scum could manipulate it if known to everyone.

[Rautherdir]

I came to an unfortunate realization that TSE's role, if truly unlimited, was extremely overpowered in scum hands, which to my great frustration meant his motives were most likely pure. Other than the ones where he thought he was god's gift to mafia; those motives are selfish.

Except if TSE isn't scum then they can probably be recruited by cult. Which would put the role into scum hands. So I don't think the fact it would be overpowered in scum hands matters, it would be near the same level of balance as either town or scum as long as cult with a recruiter is around.

I am willing to lynch Elements, as in a way they effectively tried to quick-hammer a slot.

[Rautherdir]

VOTE: Elements

I think most of us can actually agree on this one.

[Rautherdir]

Unofficial

Vote Count

Elements (8)

- Pink Ball, Menalque, Flavor Leaf, Untrod Tripod, Titus, Rautherdir, AaronFrost, gobbledygook

Titus (6/7)

- Amrun, Iconeum, chennisden, TrueSoulEnergy, Miss Lynch, Elements,

Dongempire?

Vorkuta

- Nero Cain, Bingle, EspressoPatronum, BBmolla

TrueSoulEnergy

- pisskop, Gamma Emerald, Firebringer, KidAmn

Flavor Leaf

- Vorkuta, Dr Easy Bake

Rautherdir

- Creature

Gamma Emerald

- zoraster

elephants?

- Wooper

[Rautherdir]

VOTE: Elements

I think most of us can actually agree on this one.

Can I get a sentence about why before I vote here

In the post prior to that vote:

-snip-

I am willing to lynch Elements, as in a way they effectively tried to quick-hammer a slot.

[Rautherdir]

I am willing to lynch Elements, as in a way they effectively tried to quick-hammer a slot.

A lynch a that point would've looked much worse on Titus than on me.

... So, are you saying you are bussing? Do you know for sure that Titus will flip scum? Because that seems to be what you're saying.

p-edit
So now you're admitting you knowingly put Titus up in range of execution. That is straight-up hammering in my book. TSE should be expected to execute anyone who isn't himself if able to.

VOTE: Elements

I think most of us can actually agree on this one.

Can I get a sentence about why before I vote here

In the post prior to that vote:

-snip-

I am willing to lynch Elements, as in a way they effectively tried to quick-hammer a slot.

Is that it though? Or is there more?

Elements doesn't have any good content, and I'd like to see what they do under pressure.

[Rautherdir]

Like TSE has made it known he'll execute when wagons are put in range for him to activate.

As you may have noticed I'm not following this game particularly closely and did not know that.

And yet that's the best play for a town executioner. A scum executioner would want to reserve the ability to pick and choose.

[Rautherdir]

Like TSE has made it known he'll execute when wagons are put in range for him to activate.

As you may have noticed I'm not following this game particularly closely and did not know that.

And yet that's the best play for a town executioner. A scum executioner would want to reserve the ability to pick and choose.

Please explain

Best play for a town executioner is to 'leash' their power and use it on anyone who hits the condition. (An exception can be made for themself, but no one else)
This is because playing this way means that not executing a valid player can be equated with protecting a scum partner. If the executioner is allowed to pick and choose then it's easier for a scum executioner to keep partners alive.

[Rautherdir]

Like TSE has made it known he'll execute when wagons are put in range for him to activate.

As you may have noticed I'm not following this game particularly closely and did not know that.

And yet that's the best play for a town executioner. A scum executioner would want to reserve the ability to pick and choose.

Please explain

Best play for a town executioner is to 'leash' their power and use it on anyone who hits the condition. (An exception can be made for themself, but no one else)
This is because playing this way means that not executing a valid player can be equated with protecting a scum partner. If the executioner is allowed to pick and choose then it's easier for a scum executioner to keep partners alive.

I get the town reason. I still don't see why scum wouldn't quick lynch.

Scum could want a quick lynch when one of their partners is close to getting lynched. Vork and TSE were the highest non-Titus wagons at the time, so scum!you quick-lynching is probably to protect one of them. (And of the two it would probably be Vork since we'd need twice as many votes to kill TSE, and if TSE is scum and Vork isn't then you wouldn't be worried about Vork possibly getting lynched.)

p-edit
... Okay. Bit late to start distancing.

[Rautherdir]

... Okay. Bit late to start distancing.

Maybe it's not distancing!

Well, it's a naked vote on someone I can assume scum!you would be partners with. What else am I supposed to assume?

p-edit
@Gamma:
A) Because voting Titus is what got Elements suspected in the first place.
B) That's a good question, all I have are assumptions because there's no reasoning provided with that vote.

p-edit 2
Maybe at least give a summary of why you think Vorkuta is scum?

[Rautherdir]

@TSE: Titus and Elements have both been in range (probably, Elements definitely has), but no longer are.

I'm not sure Elements would actually be like this as scum though. Not enough to say they're town, but enough to get second thoughts and wait to see if he improves.
So I'm going to even out the two wagons that I think are scum until further content from Elements. (Or lack of content, if that applies)
VOTE: Vorkuta

(Elements should now be at 8 votes, Vorkuta at 7 votes.)

[Rautherdir]

I would have preferred giving Elements some more time to put content up, but I'm also pretty sure it wouldn't have actually changed anything.

VOTE: Elements

[Rautherdir]

I really need to remember to be here on weekends.

UNVOTE:
Elements is self-resolving. Let me ISO Chennis real quick though, I don't remember what my thoughts on them were.

[Rautherdir]

I mean, I don't see any particularly good reason to vote chennis? I don't see any good reason to town read them either though.

Right now TSE is the day 5 lynch. The only way that changes is if the cult leader dies before then. Or if someone decides to investigate there and gets a guilty. (Inno won't change it though because cult and potential auto-win) Or if two cult recruits die before then (delays it a day) Or if TSE ever decides they can pick and choose again. Either decide not to use your power in totality, work out a compromise (only if a specific group of players agree to the lynch, for example), or use it once able to.

Right now though I'm just going to go back to VOTE: Vork

p-edit:
Isn't delayed death usually a poisoner? And poisoner is usually anti-town?

[Rautherdir]

Isn't delayed death usually a poisoner? And poisoner is usually anti-town?

not necessarily, delayed is a mod that can go on practically anything. Although a poisoner

WOULD

be a delayed killing roll, yes.

I meant more as I believe delayed death is almost always poisoner as of delayed vig (I mean, cases where you would put in a delayed vig could be resolved as a town-aligned poisoner.)

Also, night flavor seems to imply a poisoner, now that I think about it. Though night flavor would also then imply it failed.

[Rautherdir]

Scum poisoner is an immensely powerful role. A scum poisoner does not claim poisoner for no reason.

That would be why a scum poisoner would claim delayed vig. Though honestly the night flavor tomorrow will sort this out, since flavor is indicative this game. And it's not out of the realm of possibility for there to be a town poisoner.

[Rautherdir]

Scum poisoner would claim delayed vig

if

the kill flavor isn't indicative and wouldn't prove them wrong.

p-edit
That's where I think the flavor implied poisoner, though I would assume that the flavor also then implies the poison failed.

[Rautherdir]

Scum poisoner would claim delayed vig

if

the kill flavor isn't indicative and wouldn't prove them wrong.

p-edit
That's where I think the flavor implied poisoner, though I would assume that the flavor also then implies the poison failed.

Under pressure maybe

Under no pressure you keep that role under wraps because you do not want to be held responsible for the immensely proscum things it can do for you

Honestly, I'm not sure why FB would claim at all. To rub it in maybe?

p-edit
Nero had already claimed his flavor...
And yeah, halflings have long ears too. Easy mistake to make if you just looked at your picture and not read your flavor.

[Rautherdir]

if ur actually town here though, there is probably zero point in arguing with me about my read on you and u should be helping me pick my next target that will land on scum though.

Well unless you're a poisoner or strongman then a doctor could heal him tonight. Then again we flipped a bodyguard so...

[Rautherdir]

Yeah, honestly ali is someone I'd investigate if I were able to. I'm not sure I like how they cleared someone then disappeared. But I don't have any good reason to suspect them other then that, and there are plenty of other reasons why they could be inactive at the moment.

[Rautherdir]

Well, I'd be fine with voting Gamma or Untrod as well as Vork. Or chennis if it comes down to it, though I don't feel as strongly about chennis being scum.

[Rautherdir]

It's day two, the first delayed death would flip at the start of either night 2 or the start of day three

[Rautherdir]

We could also just actually lynch Vork. We're at less then two days left now, so I'm fine with lynching Titus, I just think it will be a misslynch if we do, same as chennis.

[Rautherdir]

A lot of the reasons for lynching Vork were in day 1. People just don't want to repeat things that have already been said.

[Rautherdir]

VOTE: InsideJob711
Explain yourself. 4860 is false.

[Rautherdir]

Yeah, but either Inside didn't hide behind Zoraster, or Zoraster isn't necessarily town because of it. Or both are false. But that was a post claiming another person's innocence as being certain, and it apparently wasn't true, which isn't exactly something town should do.

[Rautherdir]

(Or I'm not a sane Lie Detector. But I doubt such conjecture.)

[Rautherdir]

Cult is Ascension. Also, my power has a price I won’t yet mention.

[Rautherdir]

I don’t know. Maybe to clarify that they were recruited, no?

[Rautherdir]

Raus is on my town list, although, I do think that was a weird post to lie detect in hindsight.

I had begun to suspect both Inside and Zoraster, and considering how my role works it would be best to save it for confirming claims of that type. My post restriction isn't quite the same as gobbles, so I guess don't get from it any hype.
My power is technically unlimited, however each time it's used I have to pay a price, and I only know the next price I have to pay, although there's the general statement that the price will increase each time. I get the feeling it's going to culminate in using the power in exchange for dying though. Last night the price was a post restriction that once broken makes my power compulsive the following night. Once it's broken the post restriction doesn't come back, and I did get to choose the post restriction, which I decided would be including at least one rhyme in my posts. For some reason I thought that would be easy. I'm not sure if I should claim the next price though.

p-edit
Probably means Gobble's post restriction worked at least somewhat like mine, in the sense that once it's broken it (presumably) has an effect and then goes away.

[Rautherdir]

The first use was free.
And I'm going to go ahead and break the post restriction because it's just preventing me from responding in a timely manner or at all already. And it won't kill me yet. Just don't motivate me, I'm not sure how many more uses I'll get.

(Well, maybe break it later today, I guess.)

[Rautherdir]

VOTE: InsideJob711
Explain yourself. 4860 is false.

thats what I did dude
I also have a cop guilty on FL btw

Did your ability not guarantee that zoraster was town then?
Because that post evaluated as false. And there's only two statements in that post that could end up making it that way.

Also, I'm like 90% sure I'm only going to get 1 more use of my power. I'm not sure how it gets much worse then the current price. So I'm not sure if I should try to save my ability for a future night or not. I'm definitely not using my ability again until I break the post restriction, however.

I'm not sure if the old one in Night 1 is related to me or not. I'm pretty sure the power didn't appear in the night 2 flavor though.

Making rhymes is tough. Unless you decide to use fluff.

[Rautherdir]

I'm around, but I'm not sure if I want to commit to using my power tonight or not. Honestly most of my potential targets feel like a wild shot.

Like I mentioned I'm pretty sure I only get one more effective use of my power. But I don't know for sure, and even that shot has a pretty high cost.

p-edit
I'm posting walls because I only have to make one rhyme per post to fulfill my condition so it's more efficient this way. If I want to keep this up.

[Rautherdir]

No, I'm a lie detector. Who gets progressively more negative utility aspects for every usage of the ability beyond the first. And presumably dies when it gets to it's worst.

Only one rhyme needed per post. Because I'm not insane. But once I break my post restriction my ability becomes compulsive for the following night.

(And you know what, I'm just going to claim the next price now.)
The next time my ability is used I become hated.

[Rautherdir]

Thinking Zorooster since the lie detector came back false but Inside said they actually did it. [...]

Do JOATs usually have an ability to hide? It's not clear to me why Inside Job's statement came back as false. Was it a lie about hiding, or a lie about Zoraster being town as a result?

In the case of the latter, I'd like to vote Zora.

Kind of realized after the flip, but in NAR the hide would happen before the recruit, meaning that as long as the cult leader is alive a hider can't guarantee someone as town. So, that was a bad guilty on my part.
I didn't end up using my ability last night, the day ended before I could break my post restriction. I guess I'll go ahead and break it now, and get that over with.

I would be interested in either a Zoraster lynch or a Flavor Leaf lynch. One of those is almost certainly scum. Was honestly expecting Elements to vig one of them last night.

[Rautherdir]

Well, this is interesting. I have an offer to extend my post restriction by one more trigger (the day after I break it the first time and my action becomes compulsive for one night, the post restriction will be re-instated again) in exchange for 'a number related to your goal'. Considering how it's phrased I think it was triggered by not doing an action last night, and not by breaking the post restriction earlier today. I have until the end of the day to decide.

Speaking of which, let's not end days as quickly as yesterday again, please.

I mean my role is useles now after I did the friendly neighbor and it seems like a couple of other people might have similar now useless roles?

You can still prove that you weren't recruited using it though, right? (Not that it's helpful for last night, but in the future)

[Rautherdir]

Oh! We know for certain now that if a player is recruited and killed on the same night they flip cult. Since that had to have happened with TSE last night.

[Rautherdir]

While I continue to suspect FL, let's not quicklynch today please.

That should be easier now that TSE is dead.

p-edit
I mean, if the cult leader was playing well they wouldn't pick players who get killed. Though to be fair I don't think anyone was actually expecting TSE to die last night. Except whoever killed him I guess.

[Rautherdir]

Theoretically they were town when that happened, but why was the lie detector tipped off then? :/

It's possible Mena was culted N1 and they were N2.

Maybe it's because they were wrong about a hide proving zoraster to be town? Like, if the wording of their hider role didn't preclude him from being third party, for example

It's possible that a hide would happen before recruit, meaning Inside might not die if their target got recruited on the same night (And thus couldn't actually say for certain whether their target was town or not. Although there was only the cult leader at that point, and if Inside was the recruit that night then Inside would know that wasn't the case when they made the post I checked). Or yeah, not knowing if it's benevolent third-party or not, although they said zor was Town, not specifically Cobble; and Town seems to include benevolent third-party based on our win-condition, I think? It wasn't really a particularly good post to check, in hindsight.

We don't know which order the recruits happened though. The recruit seems to not be present in the night flavor so far, as far as I can tell.

[Rautherdir]

How about 'My win condition allows me to win with Cobble'

Besides, we're not allowed to claim scum.

[Rautherdir]

My wincondition allows me to win with Cobble.

... Couldn't you just use your Friendly Neighbor on me to get the same effect without me using my ability on you?

[Rautherdir]

My wincondition allows me to win with Cobble.

... Couldn't you just use your Friendly Neighbor on me to get the same effect without me using my ability on you?

Since I lost the post restriction, I no longer have my friendly neighbor ability. It was a "bargain" I was given.

Ah, got it.

p-edit
The motivator shouldn't motivate me. I pay a price each time the power is used, and I don't think the motivator would be getting me a two-for-one deal on that.

p-edit 2
I seem to remember Firebringer claiming to poison TSE last night. Which won't exactly show up tomorrow.

[Rautherdir]

Wait... So were there Night 0 actions then?

[Rautherdir]

@RCE: The logic is we knew there were two cultists on day 2, and at the start of night 3 we had killed two cultists. Unless the motivator hit the cult recruiter then there was only one cult recruit night 2.

[Rautherdir]

I mean, technically three cultists had died up to that point, but anyways.

[Rautherdir]

@Cephrir

The write-ups will be indicative of night actions; however, not all night actions will always be present. Also, red herrings. Also also, they're sometimes vague.

In addition to the above, Xanesha is capable of shifting into a human form and using Disguise Self, if I remember correctly.

[Rautherdir]

As to floating dogs... It is Korina we're talking about. And Korina's slot was a godfather, I'm wondering how much that would have applied to the night flavor.
It will be something to keep in mind though, of course. I just don't think it's something worth pursuing unless we see another Aasimar in flavor.

[Rautherdir]

... Although after looking at the list, I'd be fine with 3 of them dying. (zor, Wooper, and UT)

Actually, let's just try this: VOTE: Wooper

[Rautherdir]

As to floating dogs... It is Korina we're talking about. And Korina's slot was a godfather, I'm wondering how much that would have applied to the night flavor.

I really, really do not think weve regressed all the way to "hints about specific users in night flavor." I havent seen that trash this decade.

Godfather has a specific purpose and it is not to appear to be someone else in flavor.

Fair point. Considering who the options are it might be worthwhile to find out. Though I don't think Zoraster can be group-scum unless Inside was lying about using a hider shot. Which... I don't know. Presumably Flavor Leaf would know since that variation of hider is technically an investigative.

[Rautherdir]

Gobble, where you going with this?

He used it to deduce that one of my lists, Korina wasn’t the killer, so it could be more informational than first thought.

P-edit: I am pretty sure Korina killed FF.

Why do you think Korina killed FF?

[Rautherdir]

Yes, but that's the list where Korina might not have been the killer.

p-edit
So... is the 'murdered' kill not Runelords then? Because night 2 seemed to imply that to be the case.

[Rautherdir]

Hey fuckers, stop DERAILING flavor's wagon, I see what youre doing and you'll be punished because of it.

Whoever knows Flavor Leaf Leaf knows that he must die TODAY, not later. Stop trying to push your ego reads and collaborate for the sake of town. Think in the long run instead of the instant gratification of getting your own scumreads lynched

Scum will kill FL eventually though?

[Rautherdir]

LET'S GO TEAM LET'S GO
BE, AGGRESIVE, BE BE, AGGRESIVE

Slow down orcus killer.

I havent read a single post about flavor so I don't know what that means

RCE is accusing you of being responsible for the 'sacrificed to Orcus' kills.
Which were Menalque nights 1 and 2, and Creature night 3. (With Chemist bodyguarding Menalque night 1)

[Rautherdir]

I already have a post I can check for Miss Lynch, she doesn't need to make a new one.

[Rautherdir]

Anyone who has made a post previously that I can check doesn't need to make a new one today, for that matter. There are apparently 0 cult recruits at the moment.

p-edit
I might have been a bit tilted that I didn't get to break my PR yesterday.

[Rautherdir]

why is ducks scum?

Because they're actively non-present. Also, Amrun has evidence that one of Wooper/Zoraster/UT is Runelord-aligned.

[Rautherdir]

why is ducks scum?

Because they're actively non-present. Also, Amrun has evidence that one of Wooper/Zoraster/UT is Runelord-aligned.

Technically Espresso is also on this list, I just don't think that's a scum slot.

[Rautherdir]

(I'm not sure if the UT being cult cop is actually evidence they're town. I won't be voting there today though.)

[Rautherdir]

While I agree we shouldn't be pursuing vanity wagons, we also should not end the day quickly. Because that was probably a mistake yesterday.

[Rautherdir]

unless you're trying to get him to claim one of the roles that's already been talked about by the mod and i really don't see how that's really all that helpful

like wooper hasn't done anything scummy, they just haven't done anything particularly townie

stop pushing them

... Yes, we're trying to find out where they fit into the flavor. Because then we can tell if they are responsible for one of the kills or not.

[Rautherdir]

Honestly, the main reason I'm not voting zor right now is because I don't want the day to end early. I would like the lurkers to get drawn out before ending the day, at the very least. And also read last night's flavor.

Although I guess I could just move to not voting anyone.
UNVOTE:

[Rautherdir]

Or is that not how the lie detector works?

I did a bad and didn't realize that the post would almost always be false due to the game using NAR, which I only realized after Inside got executed. In retrospect, if the result had been true it would have been a guaranteed guilty, because that would mean Inside was a hider that targeted zoraster and also that Inside was the cult recruit that night.

[Rautherdir]

Which means it's between Wooper, Espresso, and UT for that kill.

So, Wooper or UT then.

[Rautherdir]

I am gonna guess both the cult and mafia are doing their fair share of bussing btw.

??? We already have 3 flipped cultists. How much more do you think we have on D4 (even ignoring our "cult counter" says only one cultist alive)?

If korina got a night 0 action and was silenced as a result than we may in fact have an extra cultist.

There was a cultist recruited on night 0. They were then promptly killed. (The mod was murdered, recruited, and then murdered again on night 0)

VOTE: wooper

Something isn't right here. I think the only way we find out is by flipping the slot. Or I could lie detect it tonight, although I have other plans for that shot at the moment.

[Rautherdir]

UNVOTE:

Wait, what? Creature was town. Very obviously town.

[Rautherdir]

Creature was sacrificed to Orcus!

They were

Quickdraw Daniels:

Cobble-Aligned Super Saint

So... guess we're waiting on flavor to see if there were two kill attempts on Creature or not. But this doesn't look great. I mean, you killed someone that scum wanted dead, at best.

[Rautherdir]

I mean, two possibilities here:
Elements is the Orcus kill and Korina was a JOAT shot or some other unclaimed kill.
Elements is a vig that killed Korina and happened to shoot alongside the Orcus kill last night.

[Rautherdir]

I do not fault Elements for the creature kill, but the kill flavor appears to be of a serial killer I would imagine.

Creature was one of my stronger town reads.

[Rautherdir]

I mean, two possibilities here:
Elements is the Orcus kill and Korina was a JOAT shot or some other unclaimed kill.
Elements is a vig that killed Korina and happened to shoot alongside the Orcus kill last night.

So who killed Vork?

The current theory is that was the runelords kill? Which... I have no clue. FormerFish felt like a scum kill. Vork and TSE... not so much.

p-edit
Happy cake day zor!

[Rautherdir]

Wait, no. It's definitely the runelords kill. Korina did the Vork kill due to flavor.

[Rautherdir]

Korina's character is of a fairly rare race, so a giant snake killing a sleepwalker probably means that was Korina killing Vork. So that kill was done by a Runelord. Runelords are also definitely scum because they had a godfather, which is implicitly anti-town.

[Rautherdir]

We have “murdered”, “murdered in the middle of the town”, “sacrificed to Orcus”, “committed suicide”, and “killed” as the kill flavors. I think the only one we can actually account for is suicide because Fonz was a lover. We might have less grasp of this game than I originally thought.

Can we account for any of the kills?

'Murdered' is most likely the Runelord kill.

'Murdered in the middle of town' is weird. Could mean it was a cross kill, could also be a specific Runelord kill flavor.

'Sacrificed to Orcus' feels serial killer esque to me.

'Murdered in the middle of town' feels like 'Murdered', but with more words.

[Rautherdir]

Killed could have also been a JOAT shot by a recruited InsideJob. Or some other role.
'Pelted by Arrows' sounds like a mod-kill, if I had to guess.

[Rautherdir]

Do you think an SK or otherwise antitown killer would claim an antitown kill?

People were asking for his kill last night. And he already used the 'I had no target' excuse.

[Rautherdir]

^ this. We can probably leash Elements anyways, no need to kill him now. But we do need to leash him now.

[Rautherdir]

See, things like this are why we don't end days early, ML.

[Rautherdir]

Wait... that says recruit is supposed to happen after the kill, and that didn't happen with TSE.

[Rautherdir]

^ talking about the link zor posted in 9537

[Rautherdir]

Alright. I mean it's self evident, unless the cult ever recruited twice then the recruit is happening before or at the same time as kills.

p-edit
We give Elements a very small pool. And don't include obvious town in the list.

[Rautherdir]

Wait, isn't EP also in Amrun's list for that night?
Huh.

[Rautherdir]

Do we know if there is daychat for either anti town faction?

I don't remember seeing anything one way or the other on this.

p-edit
I think there is some trickery with roles as well. My price is paid specifically whenever my ability is used, and not whenever I use my ability (But including when I use my ability, if that makes any sense).

[Rautherdir]

Wait, isn't EP also in Amrun's list for that night?
Huh.

Yeah but I'd largely credit ceph, ep, and Amrun figuring out Korina hasn't been killing. Unless Amruns lists are 1 person that could *potentially* have killed the slot and then 5 randoms. Which isn't how I understood it. 1 of the 6 names is the killer of whichever body Amrun invests. If Korina didn't make the kill 1 of the remaining 5 did.

That's how Amrun claimed it. Although it's 1 of the remaining 4, one of the other players on that list already died.

The remaining players are Wooper, zoraster, Untrod Tripod, and EP

[Rautherdir]

wait, can someone walk me through why Amrun's result on Vorkuta couldn't have been Korina?

Korina's Character is Xanesha, a giant snake-thing, and the Vork kill was done by a giant snake-thing.

Also, there is no mention of multi-tasking being possible or not that I can see.

[Rautherdir]

“Killed” is, I think, Elements.

why do you believe this.

Just to remind you:

I killed creature

Creature was sacrificed to Orcus N3! They were Quickdraw Daniels: Cobble-Aligned Super Saint

Because a cross kill would take on the more interesting kill flavor. That’s why I think it’s a cross kill. I want to reserve judgment on this until I see flavor for last night.

Regardless, “killed” is some non Runelord kill.

Killed could have been a JOAT shot. I'm not sure.

p-edit
Inside was my N2 action. I checked a post by Bingle (3768) night 1. Needless to say it turned up True, or I would have mentioned it day 2. I mean, other then softing it day 2.

[Rautherdir]

BBMolla did two actions on a night, one on wooper which failed, and one on <someone else> which succeeded.

[Rautherdir]

- Do not ask about roles, the setup, or if you should have received a PM.

Just gonna assume the mod's answer is a giant ASCII middle finger because he seems to be anti clarification.

I was going by your info on the roleblock, Zor, so if it's N3 that should be fixed. No idea if anyone else has claimed blocked, but I thought both you and BB claimed your actions failed last night and for some reason thought that was N2.

I am okay with wagons on any of {wooper/Ico/DEB/AF/Cyrus/EP} I don't particularly want to end the day just yet. I DO think mass flavorclaim shuts up a bunch of noise while giving us very little risk, as roles seem to be only vaguely connected to flavor.

Don't particularly want to lynch Elements, despite it likely being an SK. SK has to deal with both cult and scum so should be townsiding at this point and scum doesn't want to leave them alive because they're a source of kills that can target scum. It's probably self resolving. Besides, more bodies is good.

I also don't care about giving elements a pool to shoot from, because if they make a hilariously bad kill we just immediately lynch them so SK Elements is always going to at least shoot within the PoE.

So, was Creature not a hilariously bad kill then?

[Rautherdir]

I checked a post by Bingle (3768) night 1.

Fucking dammit. I don't want to be conftown. Why did everyone target me N1.

I'm sorry, I didn't know you would be so popular at the time. And to be fair, I wasn't going to mention that result until I needed to.

[Rautherdir]

So, was Creature not a hilariously bad kill then?

No, it wasn't.

Several of my town reads (and I believe yours as well) publicly begged for Creature to get shot. I think people specifically asked Elements to do it after he claimed.

Also, I think if I were scum I would want to keep Creature alive as long as possible.

I thought vigging Creature was a joke!

[Rautherdir]

I'm not sure we should do that. Scum can use the flavor to hunt PRs in the night posts.

Yep.

What we could do, is have people flavor claim when they get a decent number of votes. You know, instead of spouting out their role immediately.

[Rautherdir]

We're not even forcing people to make posts I can check at the moment. That will happen before I even consider a flavor mass-claim.

[Rautherdir]

If my notes are accurate, I'm missing posts for Untrod Tripod, BBMolla, xofelf, Gamma Emerald, RCEnigma, Elements, pisskop, zoraster, cyrus62, and Almost50

[Rautherdir]

If my notes are accurate, I'm missing posts for Untrod Tripod, BBMolla, xofelf, Gamma Emerald, RCEnigma, Elements, pisskop, zoraster, cyrus62, and Almost50

My notes might not be accurate though, I'm not always able to record posts that matter for me and I don't always remember to go back and add them.

[Rautherdir]

RCE claimed (odd?) daycop/messenger with a inno on me for day 1.

[Rautherdir]

There's a reason I had a question mark after the word.

[Rautherdir]

Hey Rauth, speaking of accurate notes: you got a result N1, right?

Yes, I just mentioned it earlier. It was on one of Bingle's posts.

[Rautherdir]

But for the second, yes, I think it casts doubt on Korina not killing night 2.

If the first person to submit gets their kill flavor on it, doesnt it stand to reason that person also will have carried out the kill for the purposes of Amrun's role?

Depends on if scum can choose who does the kill or not, I would think?

[Rautherdir]

Hey Rauth, speaking of accurate notes: you got a result N1, right?

Yes, I just mentioned it earlier. It was on one of Bingle's posts.

But that's impossible Rauth.

Devils deal in the impossible.

[Rautherdir]

I guess I'll claim a last few details about my ability.
Flavor wise it's a deal with a devil. It is undetectable. It might be unblockable?

p-edit
Yeah, probably unblockable then.

[Rautherdir]

I call bullshit.

If I could be roleblocked, then the compulsive facet of my post restriction wouldn't make as much sense, especially if the roleblock is in town hands.

[Rautherdir]

Actually, I could see Raytheon as Ascension godfather type or ascension recruited after Day 1.

If you're talking about me, I got InsideJob lynched.