Mafia of Revelations ~ Game Over!

[Blair]

These posts look like a concerted effort to derail the Kmd push and some genuine (scum) righteous indignation that we weren't following the planned Puppy push:

it is blowing my fucking mind right now that anyone is saying "let's just let this army of trackers be completely useless"

it is blowing my fucking mind right now that anyone is saying "let's just let this army of trackers be completely useless"

Well yeah, I agree with that. You have to admit though, there is a potential risk, regardless of what you think puppy's alignment is.

And it's even harder if you're asking people who think he is town to just policy yeet him for *fingers crossed*

and you just not bothered at all by the behavior around the four separate installments of claiming this information?

I don't know, kmd, I think a better question would be why would town try to out all of the information roles?

I don't think CLAP thinks that they'll get yeeted. Additionally I do think that they were genuinely surprised that people didn't want random nightkills. Also the fact that the information has come out piecemeal after seeing how people reacted to every previous piece of information looks extremely sketchy to me. If I'm town with that role as claimed, I claim it in my first post. If I'm scum with that role.... I might do it the way that it was done. For me, so much of the behavior around the claim screams scum to me and I'm having a really hard time shaking that fact. I know I was talking about the fact earlier in the game that town doesn't always play optimally, but sometimes people do things that benefit scum because... they're scum.

Like, regardless of their alignment do you disagree that it's a net positive for town for the trackers to be able to catch scum? What do you think the benefit is of leaving that role up?

VOTE: Untrod Tripod

I don't feel as strongly about this one as Kmd, but it makes a lot of sense to me all the same.

[Blair]

so you're just going to ignore that kmd was pushing me when it looked like it was going to be either me or someone else?

Lay it out for me. Show which posts in that interaction can't be SvS and why. I'm reasonable.

[Blair]

the burden of proof is on the person making the claim

Correct. I claimed your posts yesterday were suspicious, I provided evidence and a supporting theory.

You claimed your interactions with Kmd earlier in the game were town indicative for you. The burden is yours to support that claim with evidence.

[Blair]

does anyone actually believe that these kills are random? if you don't believe that, does it not concern you that the claim as stated is at least partially a lie?

vote CLAP

Which part of his claim is a lie?

His interpretation (that Vi is randomly reassigning nightkills) would be wrong, but I fail to see what part of his claim (that Vi is carrying out the kills) would be a lie.

[Blair]

does anyone actually believe that these kills are random? if you don't believe that, does it not concern you that the claim as stated is at least partially a lie?

vote CLAP

VOTE: CLAP sure

Stop voting as a bloc so I can figure out which one of you is scum, please.

[Blair]

From the exact same post:

ok, so it works like this:

1) scum make the kill
2) that kill is automatically blocked
3) vi makes a new kill instead. it may or may not be the same target.

ambiguities:

* im not sure whether scum know this is happening. they must have figured out by now that something's up? not sure if they knew this all along or not.
*

im not sure how vi is selecting the kill. i thought this was random, but my PM doesn't say that, no explanation is given

, Vi could just be killing off her favorites or going in some pre-set order

Puppy has been pretty clear that his revelation does not state that the kills are random, only that Vi is carrying them out.

Does that clear Puppy? No. But you're trying to strong-arm people into voting him on the false premise that his claimed revelation has been at least partially disproven, when it objectively hasn't.

[Blair]

VOTE: VP Baltar

L-1

[Blair]

I guess it's also worth mentioning that I think VPB's 'watch' breadcrumb d1 is at least slightly sketch

THANK YOU

[Blair]

I know this is going to come as a shock to y'all, but I am ... wait for it ... a tracker.

N1: UT goes nowhere
N2: IAAU goes nowhere
N3: kmd visits Gamma


breadcrumbs: My first post of the game I said I "watched" ABR. End of D2 I said "I want to know if UT is actually

tracking

this game or not." And then early on D3, Hoopla asked if anyone could impress her by investigating IAAU, to which I replied "ooo, ooo, I'm a reporter." Hadn't breadcrumbed kmd track today since it seemed likely to be mass claim today.

I held out claiming yesterday during the tracker debacle because I hoped that I'd be the dark horse who lived after the mafia started killing the trackers...doesn't seem like it mattered now.

Would you fault me for thinking your crumbs could fit several different roles? The Day 2 one is spot on, of course, but the others are better fits as crumbs for different roles, not Tracker.

[Blair]

VOTE: Vi

For the record, Gamma, your result was definitely "VP Baltar went nowhere" not "No Result," right?

[Blair]

Are we sure there's no possibility of a scum roleblocker? I don't buy that we have to be in a 50-50 caught lie situation

If the Tracker was roleblocked they would receive "No result" not "No one."

[Blair]

Behold, clarification from Gamma:

For the record, Gamma, your result was definitely "VP Baltar went nowhere" not "No Result," right?

the result for every track I've done this game has been no one. I tried to be decent at paraphrasing it earlier but the result was not "they targeted nobody/no-one", just the phrase no one, and Vi's refused to clarify that any further or confirm that my role PM is truthful. My role PM, slightly paraphrased, says that I can pick a player and see who they targeted.

[Blair]

@Mod

Are sanities revealed upon role flip?

[Blair]

what sanity would reveal correct results all game before revealing an incorrect result

Naive

[Blair]

@Mod

I feel unloved

@Mod

Are sanities revealed upon role flip?

[Blair]

@Mod

I feel unloved

@Mod

Are sanities revealed upon role flip?

...

[Blair]

So VP Baltar claims he succeeded in tracking Vi, and received a result. (VP Baltar was not roleblocked)

Gamma claims he successfully tracked VP Baltar, and received a contradictory result. (Gamma was not roleblocked)

Gamma claims he has received the same result for all of his investigations.

I only see four possibilities:

1. Gamma is a non-sane Tracker (naive?)
   
2. Gamma's investigation was redirected, by an as-yet unclaimed role or mechanic, to a Vanilla Townie.
   
3. VP Baltar is lying scum.
   
4. Gamma is lying scum.

Am I missing anything?

[Blair]

Can you walk me through your thought process on:

Claim I have a revelation that helps scum > Say I won't share it until late-game > Now scum will kill me

Because I'm not saying "There is only one optimal way to handle that scenario and you didn't do it so you're scum," but... it's definitely not how I would have gone about attracting a nightkill.

(Revelations don't appear to be revealed upon flip, so killing Reck means his "information that helps scum" follows him to the grave - scum would not do this)

[Blair]

While we're doing paranoia anyways, I want to say that Hoopla's takes on every discussion have been perfect, a little too perfect, I would expect town to show a little less logic ansd sense

> Hoopla pops in to remind us all that the optimal play today is to vote for VP Baltar

> Hoopla doesn't vote for VP Baltar

[Blair]

@Mod

Are power roles multitasking in your ruleset?

[Blair]

His plan was to get nightkilled before then, silly.

That's why he announced he had info that would help scum that he wasn't going to share until Xylo. So scum would kill him to avoid learning his helpful information!

Try to keep up VP, geez.

[Blair]

Hotter take:

Scum!Reck receives revelation: "Scum know you know this."

[Blair]

Ok, I don't think we can logic our way out of this one. Insufficient setup information to draw any conclusions.

VOTE: VP Baltar

@Mod

(Last question, since the answer is likely to render follow up questions pointless) Are mod communications (Role PM, night action results, etc.) guaranteed to be true?

[Blair]

KMD - you know his partner had to bus here, they must have. There's Blair back again even though her and KMD were pretty buddy buddy towards the beginning of the game

Did you include the fact that I started the KMD wagon and defended my KMD case when Gamma tried to dismiss it in your calculus?

[Blair]

Thanks for hosting, Vi!

For the record, the only real reason I seriously entertained the ideas of Tracker sanities and unreliable mod communications was because you refused to state otherwise - not because I thought you were some sort of fiendish bastard mod.

[Blair]

BLAIR admit I am your mafia role model right now

You had a strong showing in this game.