Guns & Roses V [Game Over]

[maxwell]

Haven't read, doing so now.

[maxwell]

@Mod: Can we have an extension for Maxwell? He joined with less than 24 hours left today.

I've powered through longer games in 24 hours.

I mean let's yeet maxwell.

Anyone who us against this is scum.

Why the hell are you trying to turbo a wagon on me? Are you scum again?


If I were scum, I'd be autohammering Dunnstral, vig shots be damned. Can't speak for the other players in my slot, but JV has a history of flaking from games, I believe, I would advise against reading into that.

[maxwell]

Really? You'd instantly hammer me when under minimal pressure as scum?

Probably, last two times I replaced into a scum slot I did a shit job and couldn't dig it out of a hole, no reason to believe I'd do better here. Might as well take the free elim while it's ripe, only 3 town guns left. But I'm town and actually trying to catch up.

[maxwell]

First 10 pages:

18/22 Early reads from Bell feel a little too premature, I know it's RVS and everything is nonsense but it feels like tossing these things out early is an atempt to get townread for early sorting rather than anything genuine.
38/40/42/49 Reaction to being voted on page 2 is also pretty poor. Feels an entirely disproportionate response.

54 Didn't care for Iconeum "scumreading RQS" from mr sandman when they expressed it's part of their style but 64's suspicion of Bell matched my own thoughts at that point in time.

67 Don't much see why Tanner says giving a read then walking it back 14 minutes later is more likely to be genuine.

Like 88 from Mr Sandman, didn't feel Bell's early confidence matched the self-deprecation.

On a gut level like the energy from DGB's 97.

Bell's accusation of Dunnstral in 99 for unvoting is particularly nonsensical, don't see why unvoting there makes him scum at all and Dunn's explanation is reasonable. Have no idea why Bell is garnering townreads.

Tanner says he has less reads than he usually does in 136, but dodges actually naming any specific ones. Don't like this.

The sarcastic edge is DGB's 138 looks town to me or at least doesn't remind me of her as scum.

Akarin asking Uncrowned how POE factors into his reads in 143 on page 6 doesn't make sense or feel like a natural though process. Would anyone believe in working off POE from such an early point in the game? Why ask that?

147 also looks like busywork, don't see any reason to be drawing a connection between ABR and DGB other than his comment on their join dates, ABR gives a one word answer and Akarin never follows up.

On the other hand, I find 149 where Tanner openly admits he feels uninspired townish because he was facing no pressure at that point in time.

Don't like Akarin's 177 - is stretchy reasoning scummy coming from a new player? I feel as though a newbie is more likely to try to force arguments.

I'm biased by hindsight but don't care for DGB voting Rosé for roleplaying in 184.

188/189/190 from Mr Sandman give strong newbtown vibes.

Why was Akarin going out of her way to defend Rosé? It's not like she couldn't have done it herself.

Like the way Hiraki is interrogating Akarin on page 9.

Gamma Emerald's entrance toward the bottom of page 10 is fine.

Dunn is toward the filler side, looking back on him since nothing stuck out to me, and maybe slightly scummy but I'm wary from having misread him in the past.

Town reads:

Mr Sandman, Hiraki, Tanner, DrippingGoofball

Null:

Gamma Emerald, Iconeum, JohnnyFarrar

Scum reads:

Bell, Akarin, Dunnstral

[maxwell]

I have a cute scum hunting idea for this game but I want to wait for more pages.

Keep talking!

Did anything ever come of this? because I townleaned this post when I read it but have seen no evidence of a followup.

[maxwell]

Pages 11-20:

Don't get where gamma's light TR on Dunn comes from in 253. Him suggesting the possibility of "town that just wants townreads" is one of the most bizarre takes I've ever seen. Catchup is leaning a little too toward the informational side, attacking Rosé for fluff is feeling opportunistic

Bell suspecting Akarin and Dunn in 264 is actually pretty good, lines up with what I was thinking. Might have been reading too much into his intro.

Gamma's "I think both Akarin and Bell might be scum, but I don’t think both are simultaneously rn." in 273 is a pretty big fence-sit.

I have no idea why Akarin calls DGB's vote towny in 284.

Again don't really like DGB suggesting S/S interaction between Bell and Dunn, seems a very farfetched theory.

Bell's response in 301 feels natural, unbothered, while Gamma taking that joke overly literally in 302/304 is suspect because I have a hard time believing anyone is that credulous.

308 Dunn asking how he's been awkward is...awkward.

NVM, was reading too much into DGB's comments if 321 is saying it was all a joke. 322 about having an idea for the game is intriguing, townish? Feels too ostentatious for scum to bother with.

I don't get why Bell moves his vote to Gamma (324) after his interaction with Dunn (323), not that Gamma is especially town but leaving his vote on Dunn would have made more sense.

Okay, like Bell's 338 a lot, definitely a townread now.

I don't understand Iconeum's attacks on Hiraki (237) or Bell (349).

350 Iconeum saying he "didn't read a scum agenda" in Gamma's catchup is a very broad brush stroke, what clear positions does gamma have? Why's asking questions town in and of itself?

I went back to chck on gamma's catchup and here's the positions I found:
-Bell vs Hiraki is "silly" (246) but "Hiraki has a better position" (247), agrees with Iconeum that "Bell is pingy" (248)
This, I didn't have a problem with, because I saw the early game this way.
-A light TR on Dunnstral (253)
hard to see where this comse from
-liking Gún's contributions, but wanting Rosé to "step it up" (256), criticizing Rosé for lack of content (249).
feels like it's just repeating what other people have said at this point.
-akarin/bell COULD contain scum, but not both (273)
not really productive, leaves opena lot of possibilities.
-ABR and DGB are "somewhat townreads" (274)
-Disliking Iconeum's hiraki scumread (275)

On the whole, it doesn't feel like a whole lot. There's some stances in there, but most of it isn't backed up by much at all and his scumeads are pretty soft.

To me it looks like Iconeum might have skimread the catchup and decided it was town on appearance but I don't really see any interfacing with the actual content. Don't care for the response to Bell in 370, all smarm, not bothering to really interact with what Bell was saying.

Very much like Bell's meta-analysis of Uncrowned in 385, Uncrowned had been talked about a little but wasn't a major subject of discussion, the way Bell looked at him and DGB in 384 suggests someone trying to take a broader view of the game rather than remaining narrowly focused.

Gamma's skepticism of Uncrowned in 395 is slightly town, shows some sense that he's not coming from an informed perspective where it'd be easy to townread on play.

Like Bell's 402, don't like Akarin's 403 which looks like a very reachy defense of Dunn, cherrypicking a single comment to defend him from Bell's accusation of not doing anything but shading bell, seems to be missing the forest for the trees..

Johnny's 413 pings hard, I feel like forgetting about the game is a scum lurker excuse.

Mr Sandman's posts are ungodly boring. Continued push on Bell looks like a bad tunnel, although maybe a town one. Not sure why he lists Iconeum as a scumread in 424, got no sense of that from his catchups, seems very incompatible with his Bell read.

Sandman's 432 does have a decent feel of a new player trying to solve, looking for connections between players, read on Dunn just feels contrarian though.

Don't like Gamma's Bell vote in 436 at all. Bell's indignance in 441 feels town in the sense he seems to genuinely feel he should be getting townread.

Tanner's Akarin vote in 459 is pretty limp, only puts it forward with a "i wanna try something else" but no supporting case at all, first mention of Akarin anywhere. Otherwise Tanner seems to have faded from the game a lot.

Hate everything about Dunn's 493, not scumreading Bell but asking for him to be shot instead, generic explanation for voting momrangal.

I'm losing a lot of my townreads from them fading away.

Town reads: Bell, Hiraki, Mr Sandman

Null: Iconeum, Tanner, DrippingGoofball

Scum reads: Dunnstral, JohnnyFarrar, Akarin, Gamma Emerald

[maxwell]

Pages 21-31:

514 Akarin saying all the current wagons are on town is actually maybe a towntell, would expect a stronger instinct to self-preserve as scum when she could just pick one of the two competing wagons.

515 Interesting there's an attempt at a compromise wagon on Johnny from Akarin that goes nowhere. It's always the hard to execute lurker slots that are scum.

534 Lol, Bell's bored by Sandman too.

538 again just feels town and like Bell is one of the only people in this game actually putting out any analysis.

noting DGB's N1 gun soft in 549.

Awful pop-in from Dunn in 553.

Gamma re-evaluating his reads at end of day in 594 is towny, still eh on him but the fact that he bothered to reconsider on what looks like two very bad votes to me when as scum he could have stood his ground at no real cost shows some semblance of an underlying thought process.

Iconeum's accusation of momrangal having too much information in 601 feels...a little unfair. But I'm not sure scum looks at timestamps to make an argument.

Bell continues to be town with 624. I wish someone else could be town this game.

Dunnstral's takedown of the votes on Akarin in 638 is actually rather good, even if Akarin's entrance had been pingy, there was never a decent case laid out.

I feel like Dunn's mass claim strategy in 623/652 is something he really believes in as a pro-town strategy, even if it's un-optimal. Gives some trepidation on my read.

Hiraki' takedown in 666 (heh) reads good but I don't have a real feel for his reads at this point.

Does scum!DGB fake softing N1 gun and admit to it like in 678? I have a hard time seeing a scum motive there. Trying to draw the NK as town?

Attempted wagon on Johnny on page 28 is interesting. Reaction in 695 sucks.

697 Gamma saying he expects to become obvtown day 3 is...why, exactly? I instinctively don't like this, just because of the setup.

706-710 from Iconeum is really unimpressive and trying to push DGB on the gun soft doesn't really makes sense, it's

weird

play but hard to find actual scum motive, because it's not like a N1 gun is less likely to get shot by a town gun

721 Hiraki noticing johnny ignoring the game is +town, gamma's unconditional defense there claiming it's not really a "scumcase"

I can't follow the logic in Gamma's 739 at all and the way he treats Akarin in their argument feels very uncharitable.

I do vibe with the bit about johnny in Tanner's 749.

I'm starting to feel Akarin as town, too.

769 from gamma reads very weaselly - soft defends the inactive JF while saying he'd "rather try to find active scum that is actively driving town down the wrong path", yet his vote there is on my slot which has been a virtual nonentity, and before that was scumreading Akarin, who has effectively done very little. His words paint a very different picture from who he's actually voting.

Sandman really fell off the face of the earth.

Town reads:

Bell, Hiraki, Akarin

Null:

Iconeum, Tanner, DrippingGoofball, Mr Sandman

Scum reads:

JohnnyFarrar, Gamma Emerald, Dunnstral

[maxwell]

Yeah, I got that. Was that your "cute scum hunting idea"?

[maxwell]

Pages 32-44:

Something about Dunnstral's 783 is giving me the same vibes as the lurky town!Dunn I've missed on in the past.

Gamma's treatment of akarin in 790 is ugly and somehow discounts the idea that akarin voting mom there was because, in spite of her read on Mom, Mom was scumreading her was was likely to vig her and if Akarin isn't a N1 rose that's an incredibly poor outcome for town. Makes the self-pres vote NAI at worst because it's always better to vote someone who could have a chance at being scum.

792 Starting to lose the thread of what DGB is doing. I feel like she was more willing to drive the game as scum than what she's doing here but I can't rightly townread her when she's been making fruitless pushes with little reasoning.

Well, I agree with 2/3 of Hiraki's townreads in 800.

Liking Titus's entry to the game a lot. Trying to promote some actual discussion, don't agree with her conclusion about the day 1 wagon, though.

Tanner's question about Johnny being impossible to wagon in 810 is my sentiments exactly.

Gamma's rebuttal to Tanner's "coin flip" argument in 828 reeks of pedantry. I've known players who make these sort of arguments as scum to discredit people because they feel they can be "right" about insignificant details.

Gamma's been defending Dunnstral for most of the game, but when pressure starts to mount of Johnny, he suddenly starts to become open to voting Dunnstral with 847. God, I'm practically screaming now with how blatant this is.

Iconeum trying to paint my slot as the scum counterwagon in 853 is pretty funny when from my pov it looks like the votes on my slot are an attempt to save JF, can't say his points against Umlaut are any good but I'm obviously biased.

The whole interaction between Gamma and Iconeum on page 35 is so weirdly soft, Gamma expresses some trepidation of Iconeum but there's really no pressure there from either end.

886 Gamma keeps attempting to deflect from JF when there's really no reason to.

888/889 Entrance from Firebringer feels performative, the immediate claim looks meant to scare people from voting.

912 Noting Iconeum questioning a vote on Gamma.

920 Firebringer's catchup is weird to me because while the reads on Bell and Akarin line up with my own current reads, they were absolutely not how I felt reading those pages.

927 the tone of gamma's question to firebringer here is so SOFT, like compared to how he questions playerslike Tanner, it's so night and day.

Titus's comment about the game needing life is...unfortunate, because after her start she's really faded.

No idea of what the fuck to make of Gamma's 944, no idea why he'd townread Titus that strongly or why he'd expect to get NK'd.

959/960 Firebringer abandoning the catchup to just throw a half-assed solve that happens to involve the most convenient counterwagon is extremely bad vibes.

Ugh, Titus claiming she was "roadblocked" from sorting day 1 when no one was stopping her from being productive is just gross. Then she agrees with firebringer saying he was run up too fast in 964, but says the wagon is too static and slow in 966. How are those remotely compatible thoughts?

Iconeum's 986 is the first post by him I've really liked this game. ...and then he blows it up by saying the wagon on him is bad in 1010. I hesitate to think scum would forget who subbed in for their partner, though. The way Iconeum goes from calling Fire's posting blatantly scummy to just calmly discussing reads with him in 1018 is bizarre, as if his scumread on the slot 2 pages ago never existed. It's almost too brazen for me to scumread it, I'd expect them to be more careful.

Titus glomming on to Iconeum's reads in 1025 is worse, though. I wanted to be town with Titus again and hopefully save this game. My optimism here is quickly fading.

I don't get why Hiraki makes the comment about Fire's wagon being composed of stagnation while voting Dunn, who there is even less of a case on.

1035/1036 Tanner's frustration toward Iconeum reads as genuine emotion and the reaction toward the Dunn wagon is such a mindmeld.

Akarin starting to establish herself as the lone voice of reason.

Gamma claims "I feel like Hiraki and Bell took a lot of work to get on the wagon" in 1072, but they voted one after the other in on the page before - 1030/1031, and Bell has been tunneling Dunn all game. Painting those votes as difficult to get is just flat out untrue.

I don't know what DGB is doing fishing around for vanity wagons like in 1074. I feel like she'd be taking a more active role trying to manipulate things here as scum, and I don't get a sense of that, but I can't confidently townread her play.

Town reads:

Akarin, Bell, Dunnstral, Tanner, Hiraki, DrippingGoofball

Scum reads:

JohnnyFarrar, Gamma Emerald, Titus, Iconeum

[maxwell]

God, this is going to be another one of those games, I can feel it. This is town!Dunn, who's getting pushed for lurking because he's a convenient push for scum I'm not going to make that mistake again. I feel like the Gamma/JFslot connection is screamingly obvious yet somehow everyone in the game is too checked out to see it. I don't think Iconeum

quite

fits as the 3rd partner and my bet would be more on Titus, really really underwhelmed with what she's done since replacing in and she's done a lot of echoing of people in trying to dismantle the Fire wagon. It should be setting off MASSIVE FUCKING RED FLAGS that several people were actively trying to defend a slot that has contributed virtually nothing to the game while Dunn gets run up for virtually no good reason and basically no one is willing to defend him at all.

People need to put votes back on firebringer, if that slot were town it'd be dead already, the reason that wagon didn't go through is because scum put the brakes on it.The way gamma made his weasly fucking defense of the slot and shifted his reads to be open to eliminating dunn is so fucking blatantly weaselly. How has no one pointed this out?

VOTE: Firebringer

[maxwell]

If DGB keeps pushing for my lim though, she's 100% scum, disregard all my other reads

[maxwell]

If DGB keeps pushing for my lim though, she's 100% scum, disregard all my other reads

And why is that?

Because after you saw what I did in our last game you have no reason to start pushing for my lim when I replace in before I've even had a chance to post any content when you've given absolutely no hint of a scumread on my slot prior to now. And now that I've blitzed through the game in less than a day it should be incredibly obvious I'm town and the only reason you'd have to keep pushing me is because you're afraid of me.

[maxwell]

that several people were actively trying to defend a slot that has contributed virtually nothing to the game while Dunn gets run up for virtually no good reason and basically no one is willing to defend him at all.

wait what has dunn contributed.

and since when is dunn meta to u "not doing anything and gets voted up for nothing"

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=83308
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=83299

First game was weird because it was a screwy setup where it was technically mechanically optimal to elim him (and it technically trapped the scum into autoloss) but I passed up an opportunity to just vote obvscum because I let the mechanics talk me into a read
Really regret the second one because I was decently sure he was town but let scum talk me out of my read and into voting him because I got annoyed at him not doing much and that feels more or less like a mirror of whats going on here

[maxwell]

Yeah, PT release is all right with me.

Was fun even though I got myself shot in the face, although I assume gamma was probably killing my slot no matter what.