TENET - Game Over

[Hench Princesses]

Midwaybear in inverted is town and whoever keeps pushing there is scum, peta or whoever idr

Also 39 was page in other thread

I'm preflipping skitter as red now, I'm done second guessing now that I've read more in context

-E

[Hench Princesses]

I don't see where ns obvtowned, ns still seems pretty null in terms of individual play, I'm mostly townreading bulge posts

Not as helpful as I thought although I feel stronger on skitter scum now

-E

[Hench Princesses]

4241

[Hench Princesses]

Brian do you think titus typically does outlandish things as scum to mirror her townplay? Wouldn't that reauire her to see her own play as outlandish, which may be a commonplace, but I'm not sure is something she internalizes?

-E

[Hench Princesses]

Irt to the 1300s, you don't think asking for pushback may have been looking to see who would engage her thoughts in this thread? I

Sorry reacting to your wall piecemeal

-E

[Hench Princesses]

I almost townread the cogdis in 2400 lol

But the sheep on scorpia I'd like to hear more on, especially since titus kinda moved back to you iirc without her thoughts on muffin ever being too clear

-E

[Hench Princesses]

I'm inclined to agree that titus's recent posting is less townie than her early game. do you think her skitter/lld reads are tmi then? I still think her early game is pretty townie ftr

-E

[Hench Princesses]

I do think lld/skitter are/were scummy. I think it is almost impossible for skitter to be as aggressively wrong about as many things as she has been this game.

But yeah I should let titus respond to your wall.

-E

[Hench Princesses]

LLD can appear emotionally town as scum, in fact it's one of her selling points. I'm looking at her fight with superbowl acting as if he's newb scum coached actually playing his first game. I don't believe LLD could actually believe that because a) she doesn't miss details when engaged. Superbowl is obviously not new a1) the setup advertises complex mechanics and b) his join date. LLD is also pushing semantics and threatening a tunnel. LLD is much more emotionally manipulative than that when legitimately pushing. She doesn't go straight from 0-100. She applies the screws gradually and harder until you crack.

Then there's skitter. I have an independent scumread on her. She comes in and says she townreads them both and that they could never be S V S. That seems like such an LLD thing to coach.

like is there a world this is a double cross-bus or is it more likely titus is just onto something that there's scum in that pairing?

Tammy Titus
A hydra, Bell

unwnd, zmuffin, HP, Pooky - Null Town

Spiffeh - Null (would be null town based on play but 613 has him townreading too many of my scumreads), 773 is quite redeeming though

Brian Shelly A50
Gypyx (votes me, asks if people want me... no one mentions me either way, he moves his vote then forgets he moved it... odd exchange) backup scum read

There we go. Those are my reads after finishing this thread.

this reads list looks weird to me actually

but brian, real talk, let's take this to spoilers

Spoiler:

It’s what we used to do all the time.

Maybe it was one way. I remember butting heads with you more than any other player.

Butting heads with =/= tunnelling.

Also, I think I was still married the last time we played together. Shit changed me and it impacts how I play.

Thanks guys.

The whole thing taught me a fair amount about who is controlling me and what controlling someone actually looks like. That made it easier to work with my friends, even if we disagree.

Now, the hardest part is finding my friends before I get nightkilled.

I'm very worried this is outside her range of emotional AtE as scum. Do you see why I'd have that worry?

-E

[Hench Princesses]

If you think her pushes against LLD/Skitter are okay, then I want to know your opinion of her pushes being so awful in this thread.

I have theories but I'd rather hear her actual reasons

-E

[Hench Princesses]

alright, that's fair

do you have strong reads of lld and fire?

-E

[Hench Princesses]

I will observe that if I am right on the reasons for pisskop being town, his play this game constitutes grounds for a forcereplace. Not discussing this further but putting it down anyway.

-E

[Hench Princesses]

I need to find this dayvig but I cannot imagine what about it would possibly make her town

-E

[Hench Princesses]

that dayvig shit isn't even kinda town, did people actually townread her for that?

-E

[Hench Princesses]

At this point I am convinced HP just has things prewritten without actually reading shit.

Like if anyone really thought HP went into that interaction looking for things instead of just going "lul LLD scum" you are deluding yourself.

flip skitter for me and I'll give you a daypass champ

-E

[Hench Princesses]

BS's role is not positive town utility given we decided this thread is the thread that's supposed to be scum free. All his role did is accellerate removing the less charismatic scum out.

Why didn't we eliminate pisskop and turnstyle shellyc? Because scum are using the turnstyle mechanic to rescue scum.

So tell me again how BS's ability is protown?

uhm that we fucked up the use of it does not mean the ability in itself was not *designed* to be pro-town

this is what I meant by the setup being quasi-bastard, in that the mod gave town powerful tools while misleading them on how to use it (note this is not actually bastard, and it is hard for mods to actually anticipate how towns will THINK mech is supposed to be played so I'm not really trying to dig at cakezzz here)

-E

[Hench Princesses]

At this point my lim pool is {HP, Muffin, Brian}

That's a good lim pool.

this is a bad post

-E

[Hench Princesses]

in the sense that expressing confidence in a lim pool when you're catching up on 500 posts seems pretty bad

[Hench Princesses]

in the sense that expressing confidence in a lim pool when you're catching up on 500 posts seems pretty bad

Why? It shows where my reads are at at that point in my catchup. What's wrong with that?

it seems like something scum would easily fake overconfidence in and doesn't help me solve you at all

-E

[Hench Princesses]

titus what's your spiffeh read atm?

-E

[Hench Princesses]

Not answering Brian while while driving.

I will towncase everyone else if I have to.

I'd like to see this

-E

[Hench Princesses]

Cabds probably going to come back later and yell at me to push it harder bell

I mean this in the best possible way, but have you considered telling him to fuck off?

I know you won't, but think about what I'm saying here.

-E

[Hench Princesses]

We're lovers if in the same timeline forward or inverted

I thought this sounded really awkward and clumsy from a design perspective but now that I know they're lovers across time it sounds really romantic

-E

[Hench Princesses]

I 100% buy the role as real, I'm mulling over the likelihood of cakezzz putting a scum in a lovers pairing given the other mechanics in the game and it's not immediately obvious to me whether it spews one way or the other

maybe it should but it hasn't clicked yet

-E

[Hench Princesses]

Subjectively speaking, flavor-wise Nolan veers toward "scummy" romantic pairings. I still haven't seen Tenant, but given other films, i.e. Inception, a scum+town lovers pairing could fit. Flavor spec is not a case, though, just saying I would not rule it out because lovers across time is too romantic a concept.

I guess we could take some time and get some takes on S_S. I suck at reading him personally

-E

[Hench Princesses]

okay pisskop's absence isn't AI

he can go back to null then

-E

[Hench Princesses]

S_S can you expand on the reasoning that the role does not make sense for s/t? Knowing that the pairing are only lovers when in same timestream makes me feel like that is much more likely to include s/t than a conventional lovers pairing in this setup

-E

[Hench Princesses]

Annie, could you maybe play mafia and not act like whatever the fuck it is you're doing with deacon's slot

-E

[Hench Princesses]

the amount of your iso that is you dumping your own reads off a cliff to sheep cabd/deacon is making it hard to see what your actual thought process is on everything

like on a purely subjective level I don't see how that makes for a pleasant game experience for you and it's increasingly distracting to read you asking the hydras in the other thread before you do literally anything. your backpedal on bell-town over the "crumb" argument was actually so bad, given your hard sheep of him day 1, that it actively bothers me

like, were you sheeping bell on shelly because deacon and cabd told you bell was town? that's an extremely convoluted style of play that makes it actively difficult for other people to see how you think

-E

[Hench Princesses]

like, "fuck bell so town shelly scum"
turns to
"fuck, deacon, is it okay to unvote bell?"

what sort of fucking progression is that. I don't even know if it's scum. it's more just... like, obnoxious

I'm sorry, I think I need like a sanity break from this game

-E

[Hench Princesses]

VLA 48 hours depression flaring up

We love you Titus! <3

[Hench Princesses]

@bccorp did you ever explain why you had me as hard scum?

-E

[Hench Princesses]

I think muffin might be scum but he's one of the people who most was willing to push back against the dumb shit being said in the other thread and that makes it extremely difficult for me to want to flip him

I have thoughts on whether dunn catches the mech issue with shelly's claim as scum because he's thinking about fakeclaims but the problem there is that dunn isn't an idiot and he could have just plausibly caught it faster than me

I have almost no idea whatsoever who the fuck scum is at this point to be honest

This is the first time titus has ever towncased me in any game in like three years and I just need to process this moment good night

-E

[Hench Princesses]

Sirius' heart is in the right place but something tells me turnstiling scum can be beneficial to them

This is the post I most dislike rereading early game, I am not sure that my fight with unwnd was tvt, and I am basically not reconsidering on titus until the fucking mod flips her scum. She's too fucking town

VOTE: dunn

Dunn I am always fucking wrong on you, I am sorry that I am probably wrong on you again

-E

[Hench Princesses]

I thought maybe you'd caught shelly's mistake because you'd thought about the wording of fakeclaims

I feel like I already regret this but if I am lost I need you to guide me to the light dude, I cannot find scum

-E

[Hench Princesses]

@E (of Hench)

I am not going to get in the way of your hunting but when you're done, I hope you see what I see. I'll be open to talk when you're ready.

Also, after this game, whenever you're ready, I would love to know who you are. I understand if you say no though.

Talk about time travel lmao

This is a funny post but I'll say why late

But yeah I keep trying to give up this thread for the night. Hopefully this at least prevents another dunn scum nightmare...

-E

[Hench Princesses]

annie

Turnstile too easy, scum motivated

Bell 180 too hard to buy for town

In other thread, skitter town, lld town, gamma scum, fire town, pisskop town, pooky town, peta scum, sb9 scum, a50 scum

There now I will sleep easy knowing I have fully enraged ceph to the point of no return

-E

[Hench Princesses]

I could fix that but it would make no difference lmao

[Hench Princesses]

which part? Most of it is just provoking the other timeline anyway. But yeah if you're scum you're probably like the scum strongman multitasking (some other shit) and scum pumped you over here to kill the ic. Idk. If I accept skitter as town and consider a scenario where she has been right on any read this game it would mean you're scum. If skitter is wrong on you then she has 0% readrate in this thread and my assumption that her role is too unfun for scum for her to be town is right.

Although thinking about it now cakezz probably just starts the strongman in same timeline as the ic

Hmm where's my 'unanchor' button

[Hench Princesses]

you're admitting to trying to provoke people yet are acting like i'm unreasonable for being annoyed that you're trying to provoke people ...

Yeah, because you are. I think six months was too long, how about we do a year after this game ok?

-E

[Hench Princesses]

short lmao

[Hench Princesses]

Spoiler: skitter

like seriously skitter, if you're town, you tunneling me and insisting I'm scum with 0 analysis of my overall play or trajectories because I said "if skitter is townreading me, she's probably scum" and you thinking this was an EXTREME INSULT or something is -- yes, you have been -- *VERY* unreasonable. I actually said I thought you were town, first, but you didn't have a problem with that! I do not care what alignment you have anymore, your insistence that anything I say about you is unfair while you say "HP SCM HP SCM HP SCM" three fucking times per page is ridiculous. DO I SEEM INFORMED ABOUT YOUR ALIGNMENT, SKITTER? REALLY?

I am praying you flip scum, that's all I'm gonna say more on that

-E

[Hench Princesses]

I’m not asking to figure out who you are but I’m curious

How do you and skitter normally do reading each other? Butt heads as town, accurate, etc?

I'd say this is pretty typical at this point

[Hench Princesses]

Spoiler: skitter

all of the times i'm calling you scum is because your takes and trajectories and reads are awful

WHAT TAKES? WHAT TRAJECTORIES?

WE AGREE ON ALMOST EVERY FUCKING READ IN BOTH TIMELINES!

[Hench Princesses]

Spoiler: skitter

most recently this ... dunn is easily one of the towniest people in your thread ...

NO SHIT? Fucking everyone in my thread is townie skitter. Unless it's just muffin, everyone in my thread is like lightyears outside of their scum range.

I DON'T KNOW WHO THE SCUM IS

if I did, this game would not be pissing me off

You think it's me. GOOD FOR YOU. I know it's not me, SO IT HAS TO BE SOMEONE ELSE. Probably TWO PEOPLE. It's very likely one of those scum is REALLY TOWNIE

you whining about me thinking it COULD be Dunn is not helpful.

[Hench Princesses]

Spoiler: skitter

you voted dunn tho ...

>You agree with me that Titus/Brian could VERY LIKELY be TvT. If Titus is scum she like, put in an amount of effort I have never, ever seen from her before as scum. And if it's Brian, then I guess he's scum with LLD and isn't very invested in his theater. WHOOPS. Still townread him anyway!

>I know it is NOT ME

>If it's muffin, he's actively shutting down the dumb shit ceph is spewing in your thread, so if he's town, he's a voice of reason I desperately need right now
>if it's GX, he's like parroting my talking points and trying to buddy me, but if he's town, he's insane lynchbait
>if it's Spiffeh, he's perfectly mirrored his trajectory on me from the last time we were t/t, and if he's town, flipping him would be killing a TPR the day he's going over to get activated right after we have a claimed doc that can protect him
>if it's Annie, then he came up with the inverted PT conspiracy theory just so that he'd have an insane thought process to showcase
>if it's Brian, he has a role that I think should be like quasi-IC off setup spec and I got trolled by my own setup spec, and I guess he's like scum with LLD and didn't have very convincing theater or something

Given these points, it is very likely that scum has tried to pocket me in some way, which is insane because if titus is scum she pushed me today and then towncased me! That's pretty fucking atypical for scum titus! Her refutation of Brian's case initially was pretty bad, but her towncase wallpost is not something I've seen from her as scum before!

or MAYBE it could be Dunn! who seemed to tick the boxes for sheeping me (on setup spec), argued that bell was scum off play but not role (which sounds like an argument scum would make), and whose predecessor could have plausibly used the appearance of a TvT fight with me as a cover for a scum replaceout. I am WELL AWARE that unwnd's play was considered EXTREMELY TOWN, and it is MORE LIKELY than NOT that I am WRONG

BUT I HAVE TO BE ABLE TO CONSIDER DUNN, SKITTER, BECAUSE THERE ARE THINGS ABOUT HIS SLOT THAT CONTINUE TO BOTHER ME. He is one of the towniest slots in the game! AND HE STILL COULD BE SCUM!

SO maybe BACK OFF and focus on your own thread? IMAGINE A FUCKING WORLD WHERE I'M TOWN AND AM TRYING TO PUT UP WITH YOU. IMAGINE THAT WORLD FOR A MINUTE

[Hench Princesses]

Effort != town.

I am aware. I even was like, "hey there was a time Titus as scum was like caught and tried to pocket someone right" and I went back and reread that game and it was *not this*. She did do it, but it was like 3 posts and extremely lazy and only relied on AtE

Her response to your case was bad enough that I can see worlds where she flips scum, but the idea that I misflip her the first time we have *ever* found each other as town is like... a really fucking aggravating thought

[Hench Princesses]

I don't really know why you're so desperate to cling onto your Titus townread.

you are unaware of how many thousands of posts I have dealt with of Titus pushing me as scum in scenarios where I was town and knew she was town, yes

I just really don't want her to flip scum after that wall. I WANT TO BELIEVE

[Hench Princesses]

I'm gonna give you props for that Brian, that's a solid line

[Hench Princesses]

dunnstral

The word was spoken

The pact is broken

[Hench Princesses]

can anyone explain what umbrellas were being talked about earlier?

-E

[Hench Princesses]

muffin do you still think gx could be scum?

-E

[Hench Princesses]

VOTE: gypyx

oh no henchy is making another scummy vanity counter-wagon to titus oh noooooooo

-E

[Hench Princesses]

here's my gx scumcase:
-he's parroting my talking points but won't lock me as town
-his read on annie makes no sense
-titus is town and he's been camping on her wagon all game

the end

-e

[Hench Princesses]

I love you too Brian <3

-E

[Hench Princesses]

-he's parroting my talking points but won't lock me as town

What is your fascination with being townread?

My point is that this indicates he is warlocking me

He is acting like annie acts toward cabd about stuff I say but without the townread that makes that not insane

-E

[Hench Princesses]

It's actually just gx and this game wasn't as hard as it seemed

-E

[Hench Princesses]

Probably annie too tbh

But definitely gx

Skitter's town, lld idk

Annie hammering when I finally see gx is scummy

Pooky and pisskop probably both town and there's gonna be a fuckton of green in the morning

-E

[Hench Princesses]

Annie do you have a result? (Don't say the result just y/n)

GX how do you feel about claiming timeline power (i.e., would you have power in the inverted timeline if we turnstiled you)?

This is not a fish, if you don't want to answer that's fine

I think I'm going to try to be a little less active today and might hand off to scorpia after I drop some thoughts later

-E

[Hench Princesses]

5231 is ns?

[Hench Princesses]

I don't know this day needs to go as long as our usual days but okay

-E

[Hench Princesses]

Okay, here's what we're going to do.

We're going to flip Annie today, and she's going to flip red.

VOTE: Annie Edison

I kinda thought I'd wait a bit and discuss this more with GX since I would like to talk to him, but I need to observe that this slot is pretty naked scum at this point and it needs to die today.

I'm up to three bullet points so let's do this
-Claim/soft is scum
-Bell/Titus positions are scum
-PT inversion think is scum
-Think setup/other reads spew her slot scum

Dunn claim your night action in your next post or die

Here, Annie basically claims PT cop with a guilty on Dunn, and in retrospect this is like, a naked scumclaim. Why? Because a PT cop checks someone that is scummy. But Annie's *entire iso* before this point is screaming that unwnd/dunnslot is town. There is 0 reason for Annie to reaction test Dunn and there is 0 reason for Annie to use any sort of investigation action on one of the hydra's strongest townreads. Think about who, if Annie was town, they WOULD target. GX? Muffin? Myself? Targeting Dunn is the most implausible and nonsensical night action choice for a town-aligned Annie slot.

I changed my mind I need to out this now

THE SCUM PTS INVERT TOO

I've spent a lot of time thinking about this, since it just didn't make sense to me. I get that Annie is thinking about PTs since Annie plans to claim PT cop. But this does not help Annie solve at all, in fact she never seems to look at any indication people are signaling across thread. But I've decided that the scum motivation of this post is to say something that will ultimately end up being proven false so that Annie could have attempted to solve something about the setup that ended up being wrong. This feels like something Annie thought about in the scum PT and then decided to share in thread as a way to kinda townspew herself.

Anyway, the bigger complaints are Titus and Bell reads. Annie is very confident in Bell town day 1, which suggests a willingness to read Bell on his own accord. But then as soon as the other thread starts complaining about the role softs, Annie suddenly drops the read and is willing to reconsider for what are frankly really poor reasons. Dunn still thinks Bell is scummy off reactions and stuff. That's fine, whatever. Annie did not, Annie thought Bell was scum for the weird crumb noise which, if Annie had a real townread on Bell before, I think they push back and engage there in a deeper way. The same is true about Titus. Very insistent on Titus town. Then willing to drop it. People can reconsider reads, but the level of insistence followed by the backpedal is more the facade of solving rather than solving.

Now let's think about why scum would need a PT cop. We just had two dead town in a hood. I'm not sure if it's the same hood as deacon/wine/dunn, but I think deacon/wine/dunn is a 3-person deep town hood. This means that the hoods in this game have two functions. 1--they allow town to share action results without hardclaiming their role to the whole town. 2--they increase town paranoia. They also allow scum to avoid falling into mason traps. So I think Annie is a scum PT cop that has come back from another timeline to hunt down town power, and in this sense, she is the bigger threat to town (over GX, who I kinda think might also be scum but am less enthusiastic about at the moment, and who I can easily see Annie as having protected).

Bell is town. Brian is town. Dunn is town. You all need to stop fighting each other and flip Annie with me. Because I would like to see some red flips in this game before it is over. Thank you.

-E

[Hench Princesses]

I was expecting Bell to die and the reason he's still alive is because he's both lynchable and he's not a threat given the power that is in this timeline right now, scum obviously have some very high power in this game and given we already had a bodyguard and a rolestopper in one timeline I don't see why a doctor in another would be improbable.

-E

[Hench Princesses]

Newpaged myself, here's my Annie wall from the previous page

Spoiler:

Okay, here's what we're going to do.

We're going to flip Annie today, and she's going to flip red.

VOTE: Annie Edison

I kinda thought I'd wait a bit and discuss this more with GX since I would like to talk to him, but I need to observe that this slot is pretty naked scum at this point and it needs to die today.

I'm up to three bullet points so let's do this
-Claim/soft is scum
-Bell/Titus positions are scum
-PT inversion think is scum
-Think setup/other reads spew her slot scum

Dunn claim your night action in your next post or die

Here, Annie basically claims PT cop with a guilty on Dunn, and in retrospect this is like, a naked scumclaim. Why? Because a PT cop checks someone that is scummy. But Annie's *entire iso* before this point is screaming that unwnd/dunnslot is town. There is 0 reason for Annie to reaction test Dunn and there is 0 reason for Annie to use any sort of investigation action on one of the hydra's strongest townreads. Think about who, if Annie was town, they WOULD target. GX? Muffin? Myself? Targeting Dunn is the most implausible and nonsensical night action choice for a town-aligned Annie slot.

I changed my mind I need to out this now

THE SCUM PTS INVERT TOO

I've spent a lot of time thinking about this, since it just didn't make sense to me. I get that Annie is thinking about PTs since Annie plans to claim PT cop. But this does not help Annie solve at all, in fact she never seems to look at any indication people are signaling across thread. But I've decided that the scum motivation of this post is to say something that will ultimately end up being proven false so that Annie could have attempted to solve something about the setup that ended up being wrong. This feels like something Annie thought about in the scum PT and then decided to share in thread as a way to kinda townspew herself.

Anyway, the bigger complaints are Titus and Bell reads. Annie is very confident in Bell town day 1, which suggests a willingness to read Bell on his own accord. But then as soon as the other thread starts complaining about the role softs, Annie suddenly drops the read and is willing to reconsider for what are frankly really poor reasons. Dunn still thinks Bell is scummy off reactions and stuff. That's fine, whatever. Annie did not, Annie thought Bell was scum for the weird crumb noise which, if Annie had a real townread on Bell before, I think they push back and engage there in a deeper way. The same is true about Titus. Very insistent on Titus town. Then willing to drop it. People can reconsider reads, but the level of insistence followed by the backpedal is more the facade of solving rather than solving.

Now let's think about why scum would need a PT cop. We just had two dead town in a hood. I'm not sure if it's the same hood as deacon/wine/dunn, but I think deacon/wine/dunn is a 3-person deep town hood. This means that the hoods in this game have two functions. 1--they allow town to share action results without hardclaiming their role to the whole town. 2--they increase town paranoia. They also allow scum to avoid falling into mason traps. So I think Annie is a scum PT cop that has come back from another timeline to hunt down town power, and in this sense, she is the bigger threat to town (over GX, who I kinda think might also be scum but am less enthusiastic about at the moment, and who I can easily see Annie as having protected).

Bell is town. Brian is town. Dunn is town. You all need to stop fighting each other and flip Annie with me. Because I would like to see some red flips in this game before it is over. Thank you.

-E

[Hench Princesses]

Okay then she's a scum counter-part to Shelly's role. I don't care if I'm wrong on her role, I still think she's scum for the titus and bell flips/positioning, and right now she's the only slot that I am highly confident flips scum.

-E

[Hench Princesses]

I know I'm sorry if I typo'd the gender again, I tried to proofread to fix it but I'm pretty tired and a few might have slipped through.

[Hench Princesses]

I refuse to believe town that is confident enough on Bell being town to sheep him day 1 then flips that read because a typo that looks like a crumb if you look at it sideways is slightly different than the role he actually claimed. That thought process, followed by then flipping on their Titus read instead of pushing back on Brian's case. That is not a town thought process and the slot is scum, let's flip it, thank you and good night. You can ignore the role stuff if that doesn't do anything for you

What was wrong with annie's positioning on Titus/Brian?
I felt it made sense from my perspective.
I thought he got cold feet from Titus AtE and dodged left. I don't really feel like he needed to unvote there as scum to protect their own credibility.

I also don't think that being a Cabd/FF follower is bad play per se. That's actually just how they normally play and Spiffeh pushing that narrative after peacing out after miseliminating Titus is bleh.

They have been very 'let's work with the team' for the entire game but as soon as I start pushing GX they decide to hammer Titus, whom they have townread for the entire preceding game

My non negotiables today on this side are (Imperium, Bell, unwnd’, Brian, Titus)

Brian is town and he believed his case, but frankly it wasn't really that good. Titus's response was "here's a towncase on everyone else I'm forcing myself to write while I pass out." You don't hammer someone that night if you are town, had someone as an "untouchable" townread earlier in the game, just because someone had a wall. Titus was outside her scum range and while some of her responses to Brian were bad, because (I think) Brian is town and she was acting tunnely, if you had Titus as town before I don't really see why Annie flips that read as town based on what was going on in the thread. I don't buy it. It was a scum hammer and a scum backpedal. Just because *you* might have reconsidered does not mean that *Annie* reconsidering is a town thought process, to be clear. You have different trajectories.

-E

[Hench Princesses]

Townie:
Bell -- "I have had conflicted feelings on Titus throughout this game, and now Brian seems really confident, seems like this could be a good flip"

Scummy:
Annie -- "I've insisted Titus is town this whole game without really solving the slot or reasoning it through very much but now that the slot has become flippable and someone is pushing a different much scummier slot that might actually get traction, I'm going to hammer the townier, better flip for scum"

I don't actually know for sure that makes GX scum or not, I think GX has pretty good scum equity at this point but I think Annie is actually much deeper into the red now. GX is either a scumbuddy or a misflip that Annie wanted to save for later

-E

[Hench Princesses]

This is apparently what me attempting to back off the game for the night looks like

anyway I'm not sure what I need to do other than just force close the tab and walk into a different room. I'd like to flip Annie and if you present counter-arguments, I am very likely to refute them because the slot is scum. So if you have a rebuttal, go ahead and just think of the rebuttal yourself, because I promise there is one. Then say out loud, before you vote her, "Annie Edison is scum and is going to flip red" and when you hear it you will know it is true.

-E

[Hench Princesses]

@Hench Princesses

I want you to explain why you think me/dandelion/deacon are in a hood? Humor me.

Also, the stuff I have for you is coming

alright, seems like I was wrong but
annie said "claim ur role or die" and then one of deacon/wine said "no he's good" which given how much annie had talked to those slots I assumed meant they'd communicated pt cop since it wasn't "i have a guilty" but rather "claim ur role" which generally means conditional guilty; either gunsmith or pt cop; in someone else in another timeline said "no hes good" I took that to be pt cop

I thought deacon/wine implied there was another party to their hood but I don't remember when or why I thought this

you also made that one umbrella post about a third timeline which I assumed meant you were privy to the deacon/wine hood or something

this all seemed perfectly obvious to me yesterday and I'm lowkey annoyed that I seem to have been wrong about basically all of it but okay there we go

-E

[Hench Princesses]

Firebringer did you want to get turnstiled or are you fully backed off that?

-E

pedit: perfect timing :3

[Hench Princesses]

HP are you willing to work with me? iirc you thought I was obvscum or something

I think I called you scum for your (gamma wall? if that was you), then called you "arrogant town" in my inverted readslist most recently after your push to have skitter turnstiled. I think I mentioned in a wall somewhere why I thought this made you more likely town but it's probably deep back buried in a bunch of skitter posts or something

I don't mind working with you but given I just walled annie and you seem to be for it, seems like we're at like a -- go team -- phase already

I'm also like past passing out and will address other thoughts and stuff you have tomorrow

-E

[Hench Princesses]

I'm trying to decide if gx townslipping changes any of my other thoughts about today and I'm not sure

-E

[Hench Princesses]

I'm snapping gx to mason lynchbait, I don't think that changes my annie case but I no longer see them as s/s.

Bell, gx mason level townblock
Brian (should be mason but out of respect for titus I keep him one lower)
Unwnd (just reading this slot since I'm still predisposed to reading everything dunn says as scummy)
Sb9 (will think more on later)
Annie, actually thought ns did have one townie post but not enough for all else

Locking gx as town, don't like nature or style of annie's ate today so far

Going back to sleep will be on more later

-E

[Hench Princesses]

wtf are those flips

also random though, but maybe the protagonist was macho?

I thought gx was maybe the scum strongman, this is definitely out of gx's scumrange for a scum macho and probably outside it generally

He's actually town

-E

[Hench Princesses]

*for a scum strongman

[Hench Princesses]

Thhink about the thought process gx would have to have to write that post as scum and then realize it did not happen in reality

[Hench Princesses]

Yes. It would have. they were definitely not macho

This is probably even more reliable than gamma confusing brian and whoever he confused brian with

-E

[Hench Princesses]

You’re right it could very well be a scum role.

But why the fuck would I as scum try to come over and empower a town PR to get their own results, when I could hide them and fuck with them?

Because dunn I’m very clearly the most widely scumread person today and I have zero credibility so I won’t even be able to do shit off of my flip

these are scummy

That’s also why I think scum pts are separate after shellys claim- i expect there to be parrallelz between town and scum power. I’m in a pair. Another pair is out there. I bet there’s a scum pair.

Ninja-
I don’t get why you’re asking me clarification questions that don’t make sense given we should be on the same page

This I don't get again. Aren't you not even in a pt? why would the scum pts invert. Like you're.not in a pt with trackerboi

This could be townie but I still think you're scum

-E

[Hench Princesses]

So you're saying that because Gyphx isn't paying any attention to the game he's town.

I'm saying gx has not discussed imperium's role in a scum pt after strongman killing the slot

Not playing from an informed perspective

-E

[Hench Princesses]

Would somebody who knows they're not paying attention to the game actually speculate that Muffin died because he might have changed his mind on him from metaing him when there were plenty of others openly town reading him instead?

Gx is paying attention to the reads in the game because he's town but cannot follow the mech conversation because he's new(ish) to large themes and doesn't have a scum team helping him. I'm not calling him a potato an there is a distinction

-E

[Hench Princesses]

Back to sleep zzzz

[Hench Princesses]

Is that really outside of anyone's scum range tho.

Yes

pedit: I'll look at his reads list in a few hours if I can after hopefully sleep

[Hench Princesses]

I'm still predisposed to reading everything dunn says as scummy)

?

I honestly don't even know why, I still think your slot is town

You once won a game when one scum started arguing with me on mech and you did theater by taking my side in a mech argument against the other scum. It's been really hard to sort you since then since my paranoia spikes when you agree with me. I still think you're town this game off unwnd's play and it's easier for my brain to just bracket my paranoia about your play

Pedit: thank you bell I will now turn off the device

-E

[Hench Princesses]

? Nothing about Annie's claim precludes them from being a strongman

-E

[Hench Princesses]

yeah I disagree that we should assume scum have no complex roles, we haven't seen a redflip yet and scum probably have multi-part roles given how complex the setup is generally. I disagreed with Titus on Brian because I think Brian's town's role makes more sense for town and because Brian looks townie off play, not because I thought her argument that his role could not also be a strongman was invalid. Likewise, I see no reason to think Annie's role could not be a strongman. I don't think we have enough information about the setup to effectively strongman hunt, although if anything I can see Annie having being the strongman more easily now than when I thought they were a PT cop. In any case there's six scum and town is about to lose the game so hitting red is more important than anything else. Given spiffeh turnstiled out there's not even a mechanical guarantee the strongman is even still in the thread (not fosing spiffeh just saying trying to poe down the strongman is gonna be ruff).

Rolestopper doesn't have any weird interaction with strongman right?

-E

[Hench Princesses]

now everyone hug!

*hug*

[Hench Princesses]

HP do you agree with my A50 + dunn/annie + pooky assessment?

Which assessment? I'm sure it was last page or something

[Hench Princesses]

Just my read on who's scum. Do you see scum outside these slots?

in terms of the start of this timeline?

There were at least 2 scum in this pool:
unwnd/Dunn, Spiffeh, Almost50, Bell, Brian Skies, PookyTheMagicalBear, Gypyx

Pooky's scum and then after that, I think Bell's town, GX is town, Spiffeh's probably scum tbh, after that I just feel nauseous and want to not play

-E

[Hench Princesses]

This would be an insanely dumb game if we actually turnstiled out all three of the original scum and then brought in annie scum but I can see that world

Spiffeh/A50/Pooky as the original scum in this timeline

hero solve lmao probably trash

-E

[Hench Princesses]

Now that I think about it, I'd believe Annie/A50 is a scum tracker + a scum receiver to perfectly mirror the town roles

I can see spiffeh/a50 as s/s like really easily now too

fuck this game tho

-E

[Hench Princesses]

this game is sooooo lost

[Hench Princesses]

we've already lost the inverted timeline I think

[Hench Princesses]

Which leads me to thinking this is Bell who has, admittedly, expanded his scum range

why is it not annie?

[Hench Princesses]

on odds I'd say there's a 2:1 chance annie is the strongman over anyone else in the thread

maybe 1.5:1 on spiffeh

the strongman could be temporally gated and the push to turnstile day 1 could have been to save the strongman

[Hench Princesses]

I guess it could be Gyx. But idk. Supposedly he can't do anything as scum so lol.

it's not as wide of a gap as people say but I still don't think he can fake the macho dumbtell today

[Hench Princesses]

Dunn I’m pretty sure I’ve explained the entire case sans the bell thing

But basically-
Claim soft issue- Hench somehow paid enough attention to know you’re in a neighborhood but not that you neighborized across threads.
Bell read- yeah, my read waver d2 was weird but as I explained before I really wasn’t up to srsbsnsing after day one.
Titus read- as I explained I originally thought Titus was my tracker, and thought the crumb they used to claim the lover was saying “yeah I know Annie’s role”
Scum PT invert thing- hench seems very convinced I’m trying to fake townslips like that’s not the cheapest ducking scum tactic ever

why did you think titus was your tracker? also can you quote where you explained that point I might have missed a post

-E

[Hench Princesses]

pooky is, bell is not

[Hench Princesses]

his drunk posts were scummy

[Hench Princesses]

also it doesn't matter since I think that thread is either lost or so close to lost that my reads there almost cannot matter at this point

[Hench Princesses]

scum are very likely to have gotten a receiver role this game, and separating the strongman from the tracker makes sense; they are leaving the thread where they know there's an investigative, clearing annie on setup spec makes no sense to me.

[Hench Princesses]

wait you're right that's actually the opposite of sense since they went to the thread with the tracker not away from the thread with the tracker

alright wipe that point

here was one of the turnstile arguments, there was another earlier one where they said they were town and wanted to be in the town thread iirc:

I want to go to the other side so I can get to a more mellow position to allow me to better read the gamestate. Once we’re all back together if you aren’t fully satisfied I’m town we can cross this bridge again.

[Hench Princesses]

Like why did we delay sending me, skitter, firebringer over and getting mechanical advantages/info?

because the town this game failed to handle the number of new mechanical elements the setup introduced and as a consequence our play "sucked ass"

[Hench Princesses]

Do you ever stop being rude?

he's not really calling you out if you're town btw, this is more an indictment of the town this game collectively for allowing you to be sent

at least I don't think he is, idk, maybe he is calling you out, in my mind he's not though

[Hench Princesses]

Cool.

@hench- Titus’s entrance into day 2. The same quote I asked her about after she claimed her lover- I thought she was saying she trusted me because she knew what was going on bc she got the result.

???? I thought you got the results though? you mean "got the result" as in inferred your softs?

[Hench Princesses]

so you thought titus got her own results? sorry the way you worded that is throwing me off

[Hench Princesses]

if you got the names how were you confused on who the tracker was?

[Hench Princesses]

UNVOTE:

remembered eod1 gdi

I think I'm just gonna give this game to scorpia or something I just can't get anywhere

[Hench Princesses]

Titus I’m confused how We aren’t tunneling each other

sb9 since you have no idea what I'm talking about, this post was the reason I wanted to hard town annie day2 and remembering it now, idk, this would be such a balls post to make against a town titus when you're informed of their alignment

[Hench Princesses]

dunn do you have any theory about why your role is in the game?

[Hench Princesses]

annie I cannot fucking believe you flipped on titus after that end of day 1 btw

sorry I probably need to be done for tonight again

[Hench Princesses]

hey still mid-catchup but i'm vt btw

You entered this game as a vt

But you can become the mason

You're capable of great things gx, you have to believe in yourself

You too can be a princess!

[Hench Princesses]

Actually to return to an earlier point

Annie, you at no point knew which thread your tracker was in, right? So when you chose to get turnstiled to this thread *you did not do so knowing that the tracker was in this thread* because you were not informed that the tracker had changed threads until you got their next night action result? In that sense your decision to get turnstiled was in fact NAI and had nothing to do with pro-town mech reasoning?

-E

[Hench Princesses]

scum are very likely to have gotten a receiver role this game, and separating the strongman from the tracker makes sense; they are leaving the thread where they know there's an investigative, clearing annie on setup spec makes no sense to me.

don't get this sentance at all tbh, could you like reformulate that

well the second sentence made no sense since I misunderstood something, and the first sense is just setup spec since I think this setup is reminding me of Overkill 2 more than anything else so far, where scum had an amnesiac that got results from town PRs

-E

[Hench Princesses]

We can do great things together GX

Bell is town, we are the three princesses alive in this thread. Assuming spiffeh did not actually do a big brain turnstile to exit the thread as the last scum, who is the scum here?

I believe in us!

-E

[Hench Princesses]

nope, but my claim won't rock any setup spec arguments so I don't feel super rushed

I'm forwards VT if nothing else, trying to decide if there's any value I can milk out of my inverted role post recombine and whether that would change on a full claim or not

[Hench Princesses]

what was overkill 2?

and okay for the misundersteanding lol

pedit : well i was getting around to that, but i think that we would have been told that the thread got cleared of scum if spiffeh was indeed last scum?

Over kill 2 was a large theme game with a lots of nightkills and an amnesiac, it's the only game that I've seen amnesiasc which is why it comes to mind.

You can checked the flipped roles here: viewtopic.php?p=10556221#p10556221

and I'm actually not sure when the turnstile resolves, if it resolves at daybreak rather than at night then I'm not sure, it's probably a moot point since there's probably still one scum here at least, I was more saying "who do you think is the scum" in a clever way

-E

[Hench Princesses]

Because it's like, chocolate townie level of power

whatever

I'm "inverted motion detector" -- I figure given the preponderance of much better power in the wrong timeline, I'm definitely the lowest priority turnstile, and maybe even a quasi-miller since dumb people might think motion detector is like a non trash role or something.

I've been debating claiming fruit vendor as like a gambit on a later dayphase but I think my energy level for big brain plays is probably tapped out at this point. I'm pretty sure the only actual use of my my power is to -check rolecop accuracy and -check trackers/watcher accuracy -maybe do a lulzgambit

Spoiler:

(I also actually did not even see the inverted motion detector part until halfway through day 1 and actually thought I was just a VT...)

[Hench Princesses]

hmmm, idk, would've cakez *really* based his roles off of another 2 years old theme? unless i'm misundersteanding that sounds weird to me

ah okay, well yeah i agree, and rn i'd lean towards getting bowl as even if they must have a buddy in here, it's something we can work around later

pedit : interesting claim, think i like it, you wanna be turndtiled or not even worth it?

Given I don't think he was even in that game, I don't think he's basing anything off it. I more use it as a model for how a setup designer that wants to torture their players might fuck with the players, which is more how I'm seeing the analogy

I think turnstiling today is an extremely risky proposition since scum might be in control of inverted and if we turnstile too early then they can counter-turnstile after we flip, so I think forwards actually is better off holding turnstile until the flip is decided. I also don't particularly wanted to be inverted just qualitatively and mech aside.

-E

[Hench Princesses]

if scum have a ninja then I am literally worse than a miller in terms of power lmao

[Hench Princesses]

actually I already have shitty negative utility interaction with pisskop's role so motion detector + rolestopper both being in inverted was probably an extra part of cakez wanting to watch town eat itself alive

[Hench Princesses]

who do you want purple roomed on the other side?

[Hench Princesses]

Are you jelly that you're not a princess?

[Hench Princesses]

Comparing bell here vs bell in pooky vs flavor, I am much more convinced bell did not know my alignment this game than I am that he didn't know anyone's alignment in that game based on his iso. I think his day 2 circle of re-evaluation on me would be hard for bell scum. I only have a limited sample size but I do feel like he's been thinking about alignments in this game rather than primarily playing politically.

Unless you think bell like, thought I was going to cc his doctor claim? Or thought I was a town doctor or something? You'd have to think he was strongman and thought I was trying to fake dumbtelling or something

Still when he died in pooky vs flavor he seemed visibly relieved here and I just don't think he likes scum that much and he's probably town here. Princess level town, even

[Hench Princesses]

Like his iso here is 4 pages. As someone who looks pretty polarized, that's probably town indicative

[Hench Princesses]

what's the main selling point in unwnd town for you? You mentioned you read dunn as town for unwnd but I don't remember what exactly you liked about unwnd's iso

[Hench Princesses]

I'm more trying to understand your reasoning on that slot than asking you to re-evaluate it

[Hench Princesses]

Brian I was going to say, that my issue with unwnd slot on day 2 was from vibing with muffin on not wanting to deal with the other thread. I didn't get why unwnd listed the other thread as a major part of their replace out. Knowing that they are a cross-thread neighborizor actually makes their rep out more comprehensible for town given that unlike everyone else in this thread, they actually did need to engage with the other thread, and so their frustration with that thread is actually probably townier now that we know how the slot's role works. Basically with what I know now a lot of the issues I had with unwnd middling through day 2 make more sense knowing the role, so I actually think that unwnd is townier post-claim that pre-claim for me. I was mostly just seeing if you could engage more with me there, because one of the things that *caused* unwnd frustration was unwnd's sense that his LLD scumread was not getting engagement in the other thread. Given your interactions with LLD is still probably the worst(?) element about your slot I was kinda hoping to see whether you had been townreading unwnd in part because of that interaction but it seems like you're jut not really focusing on the specific developments of unwnd or why unwnd was doing or feeling the way he did.

-E

[Hench Princesses]

idk seems like if you are scum, that could very easily be light-handed s/s theater? the other thing was your boon read but having a paradoxical read of boon is not in and of itself something I'd scumread you for, so you kinda fossing lld but never seeming to care about it in a meaningful way and not really interested in engaging the other slots that agreed with you on that read (titus, unwnd) would be a problem.

mostly though I'd like to find you even stronger town after titus had you as her top fos and you're not really like, giving that to me right now

[Hench Princesses]

btw was this just a lie or what

yep

last time I fakeclaimed miller I ate a n1 kill because scum thought I was covering stronger power (which... I was), so I was hoping miller claim would get me killed tbh. also sometimes you can get good reactions from a miller fakeclaim and/or check rolecops. additionally it's telling cops not to check you which, given I want to be able to solve the game, is generally good. I actually find there to be very little reason to not claim miller as vt, although the larger philosophy of vts lying about their role in RVS is probably not productive to this gamestate right now

the downside was that I actually went through the hassle of crafting a miller fakeclaim just as a way to get a handle on the setup but this actually hurt me when it came to shelly's claim since I thought it was really clear that "tenet operative" was specifically a vt claim so when she bungled her claim it really really clearly seemed like a scumclaim

[Hench Princesses]

That guy claimed I was some scum mastermind trying to stack one thread and removing all the scum from the other even though we explained it to him that scum doing so would confirm an entire thread as town.

And then he claimed I sent Pooky over there to deal with him even though that turnstile wasn't pushed by either of us.

So, no, I'm not apologizing for that read.

I wasn't really asking you to, and actually that wasn't the part that was weird about your iso I think, more the finding him town early and then sorta seeming to forget you'd found him town later but I think that was a shitpost so I wasn't reading too much into it, I'm just remembering shit I already commented on in the first part of my iso dive

why do you think this game is outside your scumrange?

[Hench Princesses]

Oh no.

Flavor Leaf could be town.

The horror.

I think it was more this post that was clearly a joke, but a joke that seemed to imply you weren't already townreading him. It was just kinda a weird joke to make given your preceding takes on boon in your iso, not necessarily scummy, but I was also trying to understand why Titus might scumread you incorrectly while her being town and this was one of the posts that was helping me understand her POV. I think it just is weird or was specific to a certain context that I no longer remember

[Hench Princesses]

yeah, so really putting boon aside because I don't actually have an issue with that trajectory, a scum brian world is:
-whoops you probably townread scum that got turnstiled and maybe your reads were part of why one of the scum got turnstiled over getting flipped (but I myself am also probably guilty of this at this point, more just something we do need to grapple with)
-your lld interaction seemed kinda weird, which you explain by just not caring about the other thread that much, but I guess I find that more concerning insofar as you might have 'vibed' with Titus if you were having the same takes on the other thread as her and that you didn't see the overlap in your takes... idk, maybe it's too contingent on your investment in the game to be scummy. It's more, what a world of scumbrian looks like rather than something that really changes my read of you

can you expand on your current reasoning on sb9?

[Hench Princesses]

what's your thought on sb9?

[Hench Princesses]

well, pretty sure he's scum lol

why?

[Hench Princesses]

can we just not hammer in this thread for a few days? including self-hammers? thanks

[Hench Princesses]

if we hammer here before inverted turnstiles then they might do stupid shit

[Hench Princesses]

also I've also been nudging scorpia to get caught up and help me get a fresh take on the gamestate and even though she's still kinda busy with the holidays I'd like her to get some thoughts + I'd like to talk to bell more when he's back from v/la

[Hench Princesses]

AND I'm watching Tenet tonight and since it just went to reduced rental costs today I think we should all have a watch party

who's for it?

[Hench Princesses]

I don't know yet, hence why I'd like this thread to remain open

I mean if we collectively agree that inverted has ~5 scum we might want to send town there to shut down turnstiles and make it so there is a theoretical possibility of flipping scum as well. If we think inverted has 6 scum then we need to make sure we can reverse them turnstiling scum into our thread. Some of this might seem like fearmongering, but given our *intention* was to load that thread with scummy slots, I think it's not unreasonable to think we might have succeeded and there might be ~2 scum from our timeline now in that timeline, which means this is the only town-dominated timeline

there's larger strategic decisions we need to think about here beyond just "who we gonna kill"

basically if town wants to self-hammer this timeline we might as well just concede because we'd have to literally play the entire remainder of the game flawlessly which... newsflash, it's not looking like will happen

like I've been debating whether there's a chance it's theoretically impossible to even flip scum today. if there were 2 scum turnstiled out and spiffeh was the third then there could be 0 scum in this thread and 6 scum in the other, which means scum could wait for us to mislim here, then turnstile in scum post thread-lock to ensure they still get a nightkill. That more seems unlikely since I *think* the purple room turnstile resolved before daybreak and thus if spiffeh was last scum then this thread should have been confirmed clear, so we should have at least one scum here. But if it's 1-5 then this is the *only* thread we even have a chance of flipping scum in and we should just take it as a foregone conclusion inverted is flipping green today.

That is probably too paranoid, but I think this is a *fucking weird* gamestate that it's been very hard for me to engage with and I think we can just cool our jets until we have a better sense of what is going on. Personal take

[Hench Princesses]

Yeah that's my sense as well deacon. Still if there's 5 scum in your thread then in theory maybe we need to turnstile in a town before a hammer here so that your whole thread isn't like fucked? You could be in a 5:5 gamestate ye?

[Hench Princesses]

you're thinking 2:4?

[Hench Princesses]

Dandelion and deacon are prob town

I could see pooky, a50, fire, (1of skitter/lld), (something else) as 5 scum in the other thread

If this is 3-3 my reads are fuckered in this timeline

[Hench Princesses]

I think the bear is town too but 'definitely not scum' is a high metric

[Hench Princesses]

can you explain on why you think 3/3 is a possibility for this timeline? if you truly think that then we can't turnstile out town because then we'd lose numbers here

[Hench Princesses]

@skitter: This is why I am confident Annie is Town. I knew they were my recipient when they claimed my result on Dunn on N1, and it does not make any sense to have me info-feeding scum in this setup

Petapan < Mechanical clear for me
Deacon Blues/Dandelion Wine < Guessing the NK was meant to hit one of them and Gamma took the hit instead
Spiffeh < Play is almost too scummy to be scum
skitter30 < Call it a soul reade (I had actually provided the reasons earlier)
PookyTheMagicalBear < Had no night action so don't see why hw wasn't sent to do the kill last night

skitter, while I agree A50 has pinged town very hard at least once in terms of the annie/brian reads list stuff, I gotta be honest the reads of annie, peta, and pooky at this point all read to me like something scum A50 would write. Put aside how he's approached you specifically. This is not a town!a50 level of paranoia in terms of how he's approaching reads

[Hench Princesses]

Pretty sure I'm outing my main within 2 weeks probably since I want to run a game using HUB as the modding account, I'll give you a chance to guess if you want before then

[Hench Princesses]

anything specific for brian and gx? I still think his 'macho ic' thought is really unlikely to come from scum

You think ns manipulates titus like that at eod1?

[Hench Princesses]

I feel like if a50 was town he would have proactively engaged annie before they outed his track. Like his role is spicy and he's playing it boring and a boring a50 is probably a scum a50

[Hench Princesses]

Then again pooky is also pretty good odds after his weird af posting so I don't even want to fight really

[Hench Princesses]

A50 posting on the prod timer is also a bad sign by d3 tho

[Hench Princesses]

Like to be clear, a50 gave 0 shits about being turnstiled *after* he knew that the tracker that let him get results had moved into his timeline? Like do you not think that is *really fucking weird* annie? He kinda just casually denied himself results on his own tracks?

[Hench Princesses]

I think my actions are betraying my thoughts.

I don’t think a50 is town, but I don’t think your push on him seems super fair

?????? I thought u had him as hard town

[Hench Princesses]

I'm pretty sure a50 is the most likely redflip in either timeline by a significant margin tbh

Why was my case unfair?

[Hench Princesses]

By being engaged in the game

[Hench Princesses]

A50 doesn’t strike me as an f5er tho

You haven't seen an engaged a50 then

[Hench Princesses]

That movie was (will be?) confusing lmaoooo

I don't think flavor spec is gonna (did?) solve the game

[Hench Princesses]

skitter now is your last chance to guess my main!

[Hench Princesses]

We had this *exact fight* in mystery box of silver 7

[Hench Princesses]

Now I wanna know who your best guess would have been though

[Hench Princesses]

I thought I indicated it had been a while ago, I mean I did take a break from the site for several months. Who else have you had a TvT fight with about your read accuracy? I wasn't aware this was like a common thing with you

I thought pisskop was town that was tilted he was turnstiled out as a forwards tpr and opted to stop playing the game. When he seemed *not tilted* I downgraded him to null but off gamestate I still figured he was town based on the fact that scum are winning and he'd probably be motivated as scum. Neither of those were very good reasons to townread him though, and I was *really surprised* that he got turnstiled into the right timeline and THEN stopped playing, I would not have guessed that at all.

[Hench Princesses]

Like team mafia, alisae v titus (i think? Whichever of the vs. games you were scum in the one jingle modded), i picked scum!you in both of those p easily off of that metric

I tend to only remember the reads of the games where we played together, not the ones where you were either spectating or quasi-spectating

[Hench Princesses]

you still L/A?

[Hench Princesses]

and i'm p sure i'm usually p accurate on you, i think the mbos was an outlier because as best as i can remember i usually have a p firm town/scum read on you off of that metric. i dont remember exactly what the mbos fight was abt either

the fight in mbos was literally this. I said if you were townreading me you might be scum, you said you had a high read accuracy on me, I observed you had almost exclusively played with me as scum and that there was no way to separate your read accuracy from just always scumreading me. The *except* to this is actually the mini normal where you did kinda townread me and where I did kinda townread you, but that was a loss that I replaced out of anyway because nomnom pushed the AtE too far for me to have fun

but even now you tend to focus on games where you found me as scum, but my point both times was that while you've found me scum often, you tend toward scumreading me overall (as happened in mbos and as has seemed to have been happening here), but it was also a shitpost and I hadn't actually been planning for it to be a big thing

[Hench Princesses]

I wanted to share that I had read a little of the beginning game again and came to the conclusion that Spiffeh was probably scum.
I also think Skitter is scum.

And would be fine with either dying and think they're both Red.
And I wish Dunnstral would stop failing to correctly read everyone.
Knowing that he's in a PT with Dandelion helps explain why his reads suck this game though since he has constant reinforcement for his bad reads this game.

so do you think pooky is the town that got turnstiled then? how do you feel about spiffeh/a50 s/s? or do you think there's still 2 scum here?

[Hench Princesses]

I think Spiffeh's post are just generic town and I genuinely believe that he's probably better at town play than he's played this game.
You could call it BOP but his posts always felt uninspired and I'm pretty sure that means he's scum.

Yeah I can buy this probably

I personally think in [pooky, a50, spiffeh] we turnstiled out two scum, although personally I'd do a50>pooky>spiffeh atm personally. I agree that spiffeh's posting has felt forgettable in a way that I don't super strongly associate with his towngame but I think my issues with the other two turnstiles are more significant. Also spiffeh's most recent posting in the other thread seems at least a little townie

[Hench Princesses]

I'm still inclined to think ns's use of AtE in response to my case on him is scummy even if I have a hard time reconciling that read with the EoD1 posts irt Titus which seem pretty town

[Hench Princesses]

I think Peta just outlined why I think a50/spiffeh is plausibly s/s btw

[Hench Princesses]

I think Peta just outlined why I think a50/spiffeh is plausibly s/s btw

viewtopic.php?p=12486391#p12486391

so I remember why I thought this later

[Hench Princesses]

oh is that thread listening to suggestions now

I think you guys should flip a50

[Hench Princesses]

I'd actually say peta is one of the more complex reads in this gamestate but that doesn't change my thought that he's being pushed by scum regardless of whether he is himself scum or not

I think there's at least two scum on his wagon regardless of his alignment right now, and I think I'd lean town overall

why do you think peta is more obvious town than the hydras?

[Hench Princesses]

To put it simply, free flow interactions and he's pushed almost literally everybody. I don't see favoritism in his reads or his interactions.

While true that also means he's pushed a lot of flipbait. Like if I'm right about GX being town, then I kinda dislike his GX push at EoD2, which would have been reinforcing my bad read there (when I was listing him as scum). While I get what you're saying, I think his pushes are a big part of like SS getting turnstiled to death, so while I still kinda agree with him probably being town on the whole of things, I'm very cautious about listing him as high-grade town

[Hench Princesses]

I don't really get how anyone can think LLD actually believes anything she has said at any point in this game

I really wish I had literally ever seen her roll town though, I actually have no frame of reference for what sorts town her from scum her, but I'm kinda baffled by why Titus and unwnd's scumreads there were just flat out ignored and now people are like positioning her as high level town

one of many things making me think there are 4+ scum in that timeline

[Hench Princesses]

kinda feel like town lost this game because the people who could actually flip scum in inverted were in the wrong timeline

[Hench Princesses]

Uhh, this might be an ideology thing, but I try very hard not to think about how bad people's reads are and a lot more about whether their reads make sense to them or not.

I don't see why you think LLD's reads make sense to her though, Titus and unwnd didn't and I'd take Titus's read of LLD over my own, and I don't even townread LLD

[Hench Princesses]

1) LLD doesn't believe herself (false, regardless of alignment. Like, provably false whether I'm scum or town, so a completely pointless post).
2) Titus believed LLD was scum (Titus has an actual 0 percent read rate against me. Like not a joke, actual. I once won a 11v1 as scum vs. titus by dragging her to endgame ot protect me, then eliminatign her in the final vote. Titus cannot read me. Titus does not know HOW.)
3) Unwnd beieved LLD was scum. (On day 1, before replacing out, with little context to my play.)

1 -- mostly I don't think I've ever looked at one of your takes and been like, "yeah I can vibe with that"
2 -- yeah but Titus wasn't in thread with you so... idk maybe her read is better when she doesn't have to engage you directly? I'm not dismissing it because you don't like her read rate on you
3 -- early game reads are often better than late game reads and I don't think unwnd having little context on your play makes his initial take of your play less compelling, and those things aren't disconnected btw, unwnd's replace out was *in part* his sense that he was being straight up ignored when trying to discuss reads in your timeline including his scumread of your slot. also calling that an early rep out seems misleading, it was pretty late into day 1 tbh

this deflection you do feels more like scumplaining than anything else, I think you're probably a top 4 or top 5 pick for a redflip in either timeline.

Who do you think is the scum that I am obviously overlooking in my own timeline? How many scum do you think are in my timeline?

[Hench Princesses]

Because skitter didn't mod a game with a scum receiver and then say that there was "no reason in this setup" that there'd be scum in an invest/receiver pair. And he townread peta for extremely superficial reasons. I don't want him dead because of his mech claim, I want him dead because I think he's the most likely hit for scum from this thread and I can see him being scum with pooky and I can see him being scum with spiffeh. His most recent reads list is scummy, he only has 1 insane!town!a50 point for the brian/annie readslist sheep, and I have too many other townreads that started off in this thread. I want A50 dead more than skitter because A50 started in this thread and I have reads of everyone that started in this thread.

Based on mech claim interaction, if you're town then skitter is slightly more likely scum, but given how fucking convoluted Tenet was as a movie and how powerful the badguys were I don't really see why they wouldn't have insane roles so I'm not really scumreading people for having scummy roles at the moment.

@LLD, I just played with scum Bell in BTXIV, and the bell of this game is way different than the scum bell of that game. I think you insisting bell is scum is almost as unconvincing to me as you insisting peta is the most likely redflip from your thread.

[Hench Princesses]

And he townread peta for extremely superficial reasons.

and tbh his reasoning on the pooky track is like, almost a scumclaim level bad

sorry I just really don't like his recent posting

[Hench Princesses]

I would say you probably play politically as scum rather than playing to pocket specific people, given your most recent scumgame

[Hench Princesses]

that was the joke, yes

[Hench Princesses]

I'm not even voting NS, I just don't know what to do in this game tbh

my annie concerns are like:
-don't like titus hammer
-lots of AtE in response to my push

but it's vs.
-eod1 probably outside scumrange

but it's that vs

bell:
-outside scumrange

gx:
-likely outside scumrange

dunnstral:
unwnd probably replaced out for townie reasons

vs.
unwnd seemed to fearmonger 'the plan' in a sort scummy unhelpful way

vs.
dunn feels like he's reaching the wrong conclusions for logical reasons which is the same reason I scumread him in almost every game where we're t/t

sb9:
I thought his push to get skitter turnstiled was maybe townire (regardless of skitter's alignment)

vs.
didn't like his one case (think it was gamma)

vs.
I don't really want to read his iso from the other thread

and then brian which is
-don't like him saying this is outside scumrange
-titus said he was a naughty boi

vs.
think his role is maybe townie
his push on titus was probably reasonable

vs.
after watching the movie I can see his role being scum a little more easily but flavor spec has not helped so far this game

I think we're at most 2 scum in this timeline, possibly 1 scum in this timeline

I get why annie is a townread for you but there are problems I still have with NS's play that don't cause brain angst in the way that those concerns do for dunn and brian or requiring me to read a whole bunch of shit like an sb9 read does

[Hench Princesses]

he thought the IC could have plausibly had the macho modifier

he also thought I was your fruit vend in XIV ftr

he tends to have... unexpected... mech takes as town, and that specific post felt very much in line with his XIV thought processes

I haven't played with him as scum but he feels pretty consistent with his townrange here, maybe that would be more accurate

[Hench Princesses]

VOTE: Brian Skies

[Hench Princesses]

The guy has literally just been hardbuddying Skitter, Annie, and me while skating by on his claim.

Why do you think he's town?

I skipped a lot of these pages.

I believe this

[Hench Princesses]

No, his alternative was beginning to play this game

[Hench Princesses]

He was turnstiled because he wasn't doing anything convincingly readable as town

he could have begun playing the game, which it seemed briefly like he was going to begin doing with his reads list in the inverted thread, but has since not done in a meaningful way.

[Hench Princesses]

Do you think A50 is scum?

...

What are your thoughts of Bell defending A50 and going for a Spiffeh wagon here?

Doesn't bother me

[Hench Princesses]

skitter, while I agree A50 has pinged town very hard at least once in terms of the annie/brian reads list stuff

The guy has literally just been hardbuddying Skitter, Annie, and me while skating by on his claim.

Why do you think he's town?

I'm ready for brian to die off this post tbh

hurray I have a scumread!

[Hench Princesses]

hmm, interesting suspicion! I wonder if I've expressed anything to that effect, suchas, I don't know, 6037?

[Hench Princesses]

you took one quote from 6037 and asked why I townread a50, when the point of 6037 was that I scumread a50

this level of dense could very well be outside your townrange, brian!

[Hench Princesses]

this level of dense could very well be outside your townrange, brian!

Not really.

fair

[Hench Princesses]

you literally read half a post, reached an incorrect conclusion, and asked a question about it... I strongly implied you hadn't read (a hint that maybe your question had been answered...), and then you... idk, made a bunch of weird fucking posts where you act like I haven't been saying a50 is my top flip for the last several pages. I don't just not townread him, Brian. Maybe work on your skimming?

[Hench Princesses]

Like it's pretty fucking rich given you are simultaneously arguing you were justified in your titus push since she was saying random noise (from your point of view) when you seem shocked, shocked that my top flip is not a townread

[Hench Princesses]

brian's characterization of the titus case is sounding increasingly like scumplaining/she was right for wrong reasons

I still think he's likely town for role but this interaction has been baaaaad

[Hench Princesses]

you said this game is outside your scum range, why not link some of your scum games and why you think you're outside that range?

[Hench Princesses]

You argued you're outside your scumrange. That argument pinged me, so it's on you to demonstrate that wasn't a scummy thought process. You basically said you wouldn't try as scum or that you wouldn't have fucking murdered titus for shitty reasons as scum, both of which sounds like bullshit. What in this game is actually outside your scumrange?

[Hench Princesses]

Figure it out yourself.

I'm not giving you a roadmap to reading me.

why not, though?

[Hench Princesses]

If you're so afraid of the use of trust tells, why argue you're outside your scum range in the first place...

This is actually a dumb argument, but you probably should recognize that you're being kinda manipulative in how people view your slot lately.

Bell is town. Find scum.

[Hench Princesses]

Oh lord anything happen last 8 pgs

Bell and Brian confessed their undying love for each other, the wedding's in june

[Hench Princesses]

Damn it bell how did you ninja that joke