FFVII Mafia: Over

[Empking]

OOGEY BOOGEY

Vote: Jebus

[Empking]

Is it just Mybuddylee and Xtoxm so far?

[Empking]

I mreant that don't have a vote.

[Empking]

Unvote

Vote: Armix

I'd like to test a daycop claim.

Is the Cid claimer lying? Cid claimer don't answer that.

[Empking]

Is the Cid claimer lying? Cid claimer don't answer that.

Who do you want to answer it then?

Somebody other than him.

why are you acting like armlx is expendable? For all you knew he could've been the real daycop.

CML (and others who still want to lynch armlx), what do you think of this point?

We won't lynch him without giving him a chance to claim.

[Empking]

I think we should wait a bit and let those thaty have been asked questions, answer them.

[Empking]

The only "lover" type roles i could think of in FF7 would be:

Aeris - Cloud
Aeris - Zack
Tifa - Cloud
Sephiroth - Jenova (not lovers obviously but could be adapted)
Kadaj - Jenova (???)

In any case, I doubt any of these characters would have a lover "clause" in them anyway, I think they'd be destined for greater things, (I'd hate for one of them to be just a lover role). I'm personally going to rule out the lover theory. I still have no idea why Zac would do what he did though...

There are other potential adaptations if we're using the Advent Children Chars and even if we're not. Also it's be interesting to see what kind of role Cait Sith has.

I'd Speculate that Aeris has a very Modified role myself, a Princess/Lover/Healer role in one.

Also I'd like to hear some of the Game Fans thoughts on the idea of Bundenhagen as a Day Cop. I said earlier it was an outside possibility but I really don't see him fitting in to an investigative role in this. Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

Now that's setup speculation.

[Empking]

If xtoxm really is a cop, and he really got a guilty armlx, he's insane at best. In which case, he would still be our best lynch.

OMG

And you know that how?

[Empking]

No. TM is one of the first players I've played with on this site and he's not doing anything ooc either.

He normally claims people are definate town with no proof to that effect?

[Empking]

Unvote

I was presuming that ABR was lying but from people who know him better that I do that isn't the case.

Why don't people want a hammer?

[Empking]

Yes, wolf, the FoS's are enough. Also, MBP, that vote, I hope, did not count. Don't you dare correct it.

Ha, I thought their was more than just the one person.

Vote: Xtoxm

[Empking]

Well, I did want X to come back to answer the last few questions for us, but as it seems now (to me and to everyone else) he was confrimed lying and ABR says he is confrimed scum. If nobody else wants to Ill hammer him, or Ill just wait till he gets back before I place another vote onto him.

I am pretty sure Empking hammered...

He unvoted at L-1 and the put his Vote back on so I think that keeps X at L-1. You might be right however. Ill go back and count.

I was voting Armix before.

[Empking]

Its annoying but it does seem to be ABRs playstyle and following your play style isn't scummy.

[Empking]

Vote: Mbpokemon

"A great meta if he's scum" - I really don't like that, at all.

We can't really make a judgement if main characters are bad guys or power roles or townies yet. I'm leaning towards a mix.

[Empking]

Watching.

[Empking]

I put this on my watched topics.

[Empking]

You asked.

[Empking]

Does the recent discussion actually help the town?

We can only really discuss one thing at a time and I don't think that one thing should be set up discussion.

[Empking]

^^^^ Don't worry I'm not scum. And you raise good arguments against Liam.

Vote: CallMeLiam

I don't like this post but I don't why. I think it seems too eager.

[Empking]

Wow a lot of people aren't voting.

By eager I meant quick to follow.

[Empking]

So rare that it is completely implausible for Xtoxm to be one. But with posts like these,

lol some people are way too gullible.

Confirm vote: Xtoxm

Ok, so tell me why we should lynch Xtox given the chance he might really be a daycop that played badly? It's not a high chance, but there's also the fact that at worst we lose a townie (hopefully not a PR) and at best Xtox is bussing for the long run.

FoS: xtoxm

I will go back and point out exactly what posts I do not like, which will most likely parallel posts already quoted by others, but I feel it would be beneficial for me to do so anyways.

At the moment, I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and see whether or not your day cop claim is true by going along with the suggestion of lynching either you or armlx. I would much rather not risk losing a power role so early in the game, and so I willl

vote: armlx

one would come to think that the town needs a little push over the cliff to lynch a confirmed liar and possible scum.

The SK argument against me would come up whether or not Xtoxm was scum, so that argument is void and meaningless.

You are as likely SK as me, as it stands.

From my read, I also dislike the way DyanamoIX jumped on Xtoxm:

Well, I did want X to come back to answer the last few questions for us, but as it seems now (to me and to everyone else) he was confrimed lying and ABR says he is confrimed scum. If nobody else wants to Ill hammer him, or Ill just wait till he gets back before I place another vote onto him.

This, after an unvote, seems pretty wishy washy, non-committal and irresponsible come day 2.

I am currently displeased with the following players:

CallmeLiam
Yosarian
DynamoIX

I really don't understand how the bold bit follows. Its a SK tell regardless of whether it hit scum or town therefore it isn't a tell?

[Empking]

Because if everyone lynched liars, then only scum would lie.

Definitely not true. ABR's original stunt proved this.

It doesn't prove anything as we don't always lynch liars.

[Empking]

I didn't have more than 50% belief that Xtoxm was telling the truth.

Day 1 wasn't useless but it wasn't as useful as it should've been.

[Empking]

it would be the equivalent of making Rand al'Thor the bad guy in a Wheel of Time game or Luke Skywalker the bad guy in a Star Wars game. Ain't gonna happen.
.

Or Harry Potter in a Harry Potter game?

I hope your last post was a joke.

[Empking]

Does everyone voting for ABR still want their vote on him?

[Empking]

When was the last time all those people even posted? (Bar the one who posted this page)

Guess you've got a point.

My vote ATM is a waste.

Unvote

Vote: CallmeLiam

[Empking]

Who were the last peopple prodded?

[Empking]

I was going to vote TM thanks to that comment but its possible he was refering to his sig.

Were you?

[Empking]

I think I agree with ABR, on the rolefishing comments.

[Empking]

Everybody, the CML case is a good one, as good as could be expected with the day 1 we had.

The ABR, case is beased on ABR having a scummy meta.

[Empking]

armlx, other than the fact that xtoxm got a "guilty" on you, how did you view and treat his claim differently than ABR's? Don't you have metas that say both of them are liars regardless of alignment?

After reading your reactions to D1's events, I don't really think you're scum, but I am curious to know why you approached the two claims so differently.

Why did you think that Armlx had a meta that xtoxm lied as town?

Yosarian2: Whayt is the ABR case?

[Empking]

That doesn't really answer the question.

[Empking]

It was right about this time on Day one that someone wedged in a faux cop claim and forced the swing. Not sure it will swing without them...

To the people not voting ABR right now - do you honestly believe he's not Mafia aligned?

I believe he is for the following reasons.

He made a decently powerful role-claim on Day One and is still alive after the night phase. As far as the write up is concerned, he wasn't protected so he wasn't targetted either. Living through the night after a roleclaim like that and not dying is - in my opinion - a big tell.

He was wrong. He claimed an investigation that was wrong. Do you honestly think he'd die?

Also WIFOM

I wasn't keen when I thought he was claiming the Cid flavour. But he himself has retracted, then repeated and retracted that claim again a few times now, throwing it completely in doubt to my mind.

If he is town, then he's a townie that has already engineered the lynch of a fellow townie and has only contributed confusion to day two. That's not a pro-town play style in my opinion, and it wouldn't be missed.

That's meta

If he's Mafia, which I think is very likely, then we're looking at a lot of leads from the players who have been standing up for this meta of his since day two began.

[Empking]

As far as the write up is concerned, he wasn't protected so he wasn't targetted either.

Uh, explain? How do you know/infer this? He ASKED for night protection at the end of D1 (maybe jokingly, but still).

Might be newbish naivety but I'd have thought it would have been in the write up - I'm learning games get played rather differently here than where I'm used to though - so I could be wrong.

No they don't do that here.

[Empking]

He claimed a guilty on Xtoxm.

Who died.

And was revealed as town.

[Empking]

CML: You're on L-1 claim.

[Empking]

If CML comes up scum then I'll be looking at MBl for his unnecessary vote.

[Empking]

Vote: MBL

I said why last page.

[Empking]

You guys know from the trackers own mouth that I didn't move on Night One - and if I didn't move, it's reasonably easy to assume what my role is likely to be. .

I don't follow. Wouldn't most mafia show up as not moving? Or are you saying you're mafia?

[Empking]

There are two mafia groups and an SK, most likely. Look at the flavor and colors of the dead scum in the first post. Shinra and Turk, if my memory serves me right. Recall that Liam told us to look on his wagon for Turks--that may very well mean his scumpartners were avoiding voting for him. I doubt he'd have us give extra scrutiny to his scumbuddies like that, so they were probably coming up with excuses not to vote Liam.

Pretty sure CarnCarn nailed ABR, which is a bit odd considering he only had a 1/4 chance of doing so. Possible serial killer? If he's the SK, there's a vig out there most likely.

My guess is two three-man mafia teams, all with powers. That means c. drago is likely vanilla town.

Each team probably has a GF, a tracker/watcher, and a roleblocker.

Great news: no pro-town cops dead!

5 scum left out of 17 remaining, not terrible.

Pretty crazy that all kills managed to avoid Cludsy's protect/roleblock. Hopefully we have another pro-town tracker/watcher who can guide us today. Two days worth of results is not a terrible time to claim if you think you have scum dead to rights, especially considering there are three scumteams and we really need to eliminate one of them to cut down on the number of nightkills.

Would you mind exolaining how you worked that out?

[Empking]

unvote, vote: TonyMontana

I find him relatively scummy, but I want a claim. If I like the claim, I'll unvote.

PS: This is L-2.

That's normally time to claim but this bandwagon has been created so fast I don't one.

[Empking]

You jackasses should have seen that claim coming a mile away.

Really? Why?

Unvote

unless there's a counter. I think it's vaguely possible that Cloud is a safeclaim, but I'm not going to bank on that chance any time soon.

And

Vote: Empking

based on the incongruity between these two posts:

^^^^ Don't worry I'm not scum. And you raise good arguments against Liam.

Vote: CallMeLiam

I don't like this post but I don't why. I think it seems too eager.

When was the last time all those people even posted? (Bar the one who posted this page)

Guess you've got a point.

My vote ATM is a waste.

Unvote

Vote: CallmeLiam

Note that ABR was leading the votecount at the time of the first post, and CML at the time of the second.

CML may have been scum, but he probably also had a point about the opportunistic votes on his wagon, and this looks like the most opportunistic of them all to me.

---

I'm also suspicious of this from MBPikamon:

Also... about the dead Turk, looks like Xtomx was right about the mafia atleast being Shrina, or Shrina related.

It seems like he's trying to mislead us somehow, although given that I'm not even sure if this sounds more likely to come from Turks or Shinra, I can't claim that it's particularly solid.

And noting Yos2's interactions with CML as signs of a possible partnership too. (ie. pretty much ignoring him, but throwing in a couple of cursory "CML is suspicious too" posts when it became clear that the CML wagon wasn't going to die down).

They aren't inconsistent, I never thought ABR was scum but he was very eager in that post. I also never said I disliked the CML bandwagon.

[Empking]

Look, I explained already, I believed ABR's behavior to be a nulltell/minor scumtell, since I've been in games with him, and he does stuff like that all the time. And even if it was a scumtell, it certainly wasn't as big as CML's scumminess.

If he does it all the time, why would it be a minor scumtell?

[Empking]

Do we have a deadline yet?

[Empking]

Also, I'm kind of surprised MBL is buying into the scumcop thing, based on what iLord said. He was clearly wrong about both xtoxm and ABR, and I wouldn't be surprised if his comments are just general confusion-increasing attempts from scum.

iLord wasn't aligned with xtoxm or ABR so he wouldn't have inside information on either of them. He'd have full inside information on his scumteam (Turks) and from that infer information on the other scumteam (Shinra).

I think iLord wanted us to be wary of a Shinra cop hunting Turk scum. He was laying the groundwork to attack the first person who came up with a guilty on his buds.

Is it just me or do his two paragraphs disagree with each other. It seems like he's giving two opposing reasons for why he did it.

[Empking]

Yeah, if you (cephrir) do have anything it might be an idea to say it.

[Empking]

Yeah, I'm going to have to agree with Yos on this one, the GW case is weaksauce when you take his post in context.

And I don't see why Empking wanting to test Xtoxm's claim makes him specifically Shinra; Turks would benefit just as much from doing so, as far as I can see, and given his actions with regard to CML yesterday, that's what I'm thinking Empking is.

Also don't think TonyMontana is Shinra after his claim. Maybe this is stepping into dangerous outguessing the mod territory, but if Cloud is a safeclaim, I'd imagine it would be for SK Sephiroth.

Yos = Shinra is right on the money though, IMO.

Are you a "He wanted him lynched. It must be a bus." kind of guy?

[Empking]

MBL
Nat
Lowell

[Empking]

MBL made a desperate attempt to look town. Town wouldn't do that. He then tried to lead the town.

"Also, you were right alongside Natirasha in wanting TonyMontana lynched. I'd think you'd be skeptical of the wagon your #2 suspect is on... "

Since making Nat my NO. 2 suspect when have I suggested wanting to lynch TM. Quotes please.

[Empking]

He put on a vote on scum when scum was lynched.

It isn't a town tell like everyone is saying. That's for sure.

Yes its a quote.

[Empking]

MBL, I'm willing to believe that my opinions might be expressed by scum.

MBL, you've made so many one of your cases is probably right.

Y2, why would town vote for already lynched scum?

[Empking]

Personally I can see CD's point.

I think Zakeri's gaff is sxcummy but not as scummy as the three I listed.

[Empking]

Yeah, you don't vote someone just to have a bandwagon, especially if you haven't read the game yet.

[Empking]

I think Zakeri should claim.

[Empking]

Unvote

We're near deadline anhd Lowell is scummy.

Vote: Lowell

[Empking]

Lowell's claim isn't a claim that'll change my vote.

[Empking]

Did Zakeri tell us her/his other results?

Vote: MBL

Still think he's the scummiest.

[Empking]

How did he perform excellently yesterday?

[Empking]

As far as I'm concerned, that isn't excellent until it helps kill scum.

[Empking]

Or RBT decided that lynching the Obv-Scum who wasn't on his team, would make him look townier and would be more useful than helping lynch the town Empking.

Your second argument is that I wanted to test a daycop. Unless, you disbelieved the claim, I don't see why town wouldn't.

[Empking]

GhostWriter

Hey Empking, this guy voted Xtoxm after he'd already gathered enough votes for a lynch, which is your entire case on MBL. How come you

don't

didn't suspect him too?

I was deleting all the analysis I'd already written on the dead guys, but this part is still relevant.
[/b].

Xtoxm wasn't scum.

I don't have a case on Nat, its just (s)he seems to acting a lot different from the games I've read that (s)he was in.

[Empking]

I agree. If we're choosing one scum group over another we should go for the small scum groups.

[Empking]

If its 9-2-1-1, is it still better to lynch turks (in your opinion)?

[Empking]

Unvote

MBL's posts for today seem to be townie.

Now, I'm worrying on who to vote. My case on Nat is that she's being too helpful for Nat. So that's not very good.

[Empking]

I haven't seen anything that would suggests your a turk, rather than the focus on SK and Shinra thing which seems town.

Am I missing something?

[Empking]

An open question to everyone:

1. Yosarian2

3. Empking
4. wolframnhart
5. iamausername

10. Cephrir
11. Jebus
12. Grimmy

13. Cavebear with a toothache

14. christiano drago

20. CarnCarn

22. Zakeri
25. MrBuddyLee

26. Natirasha

Which of these players are playing like they want to lay low and avoid attention in order to survive, rather than hunt the remaining 4 scum?

I bolded the players I think are trying to lay low.

[Empking]

Are you refering to my post?

[Empking]

I don't consider leaving the site as trying to lay low.

[Empking]

Yes, wolf, the FoS's are enough. Also, MBP, that vote, I hope, did not count. Don't you dare correct it.

I posted this the first time, the people do want a hammer thing came up.

[Empking]

Empking makes a rather large scumtell during day 2, in which he asks if people still believe in the ABR lynch. Once MLB suggests the answer is most likely no, he switched to the other wagon without an explination and keeps it tacked on for the rest of the day. I'm More and more convinced that he's a turk as I read on.
.

Can I comfirm that your saying I switched from ABR to CML.

[Empking]

Yes, I was talking about your switch to CML, which is why I no longer think you're specifically shinra.

I never voted ABR.

[Empking]

Vote; Grimmy

He's the scummiest player here (IMO).

[Empking]

Vote; Grimmy

He's the scummiest player here (IMO).

so what makes you say this. IMO - In My Opinion. Id like to hear reasons for your opinion of me.

Also,

Zakeri- this is now day 4. I could only find two announced investigation results from you. Could you please post a list of who you looked at an when?

Grimmy

You haven't helped the town.

I dislike massclaim when it isn't LyoL unless set up information would suggest that it'd break the game. It doesn't look like either of these situations is the case.

[Empking]

If

we

the two scum teams started with four members each

baaahahahaha

vote: iamausername

Vote: iamausername

Post also implies fakeclaims.

Aren't fakeclaims normal?

I'm not going to vote a player that's been pro-town based on that "we" even if he is scum does that sentance make sense?

I don't think the role claim logic forced, its wrong though.

[Empking]

[
Cavebear's last post on site is dated Monday, November 17th.

Night 3 began on Sunday, November 23rd.

So apparently, almost an entire week after apparently dissapearing for good, Cavebear logged on just long enough to send in an investigation. Interesting.

I think that's a really big flaw with the claim.

Vote: MM

[Empking]

How is showing that you must be lying, grasping at straws?

[Empking]

Maybe he planned to lay low anyways so as to not draw nightkills.

Does this have anything to do with the flaw in your claim.

Maybe he submitted a choice early since he's anticipating that he will disappear.

So hje knew he'd leave but didn't ask for a replacement?

Maybe the mod randomized a choice.

I haven't modded a game but from what I've read, this seems like a no-no.

[Empking]

Your first point, he left the forum before night, not just this game.

I guess we'll have to disagree with the second point. I still don't think somebody would make things easy for the replacement (by sending a Night action in advance) but not make things easier for the mod.

Third point, I think with some things you can make presumptions.

Elias, if a role doesn't send in a night action will you randomnise it?

[Empking]

He has, I checked.

[Empking]

So don't yoiu have a screenshot?

[Empking]

vote: iamausername

CarnCarn is Shinra, btw. Laters.

Do you have reasons?

I don't think the CD thing is exceptionally scummy but it is scummy.

[Empking]

I'd like to keep playing.

[Empking]

I did target CD. I did not kill him. I thought he was scum so I RBed him.

I'm Biggs the role blocker.

[Empking]

Vote: CarnCarn

I can use my AVALANCHE training to overpower them stopping them from doing any actions.

I don't remember my reasons but -

Nat
Kloud
IAAUN
CD

[Empking]

I don't like the CD roleblock because you were roleblocking someone who claimed vanilla under no pressure at all (slipped up, really).
But, with 2 docs dead (and 2 kills last night), a RB would be useful to us if he's town. Emp really hasn't pinged my scumdar at all this game, so I'll have to think more about this whole thing.

Why are you voting me, Emp?

That made it a win-draw situation then. It meant I was unlikely to target a town power role.

I'm voting you because I don't think scum would do what IAAUN did unless you were scum.

[Empking]

The fact that people have to come up with BS like me not claiming my targets in order to get me lynched, suggests that this is not a good lynch.

Cephrir: Why does my role break the pattern and not Nat's?

[Empking]

But surely it bares mentioning?

I must have either deleted the other target or not sent it.

[Empking]

So did Cephrir actually win?

Still wondering who the scum that killed me was, and why ?

I think that was us. Don't really remember why, though. I think N1 we were just like "anyone but ABR will do" after how much him and Xtoxm screwed the town on D1.

Nat got his tracking ability from killing ABR.

Wait, Nat actually was a tracker? Empking was supposed to be blocking CarnCarn that night, so how did Nat track him to christiano?

I messed up.