DEFCON Mafia 5.0: GAME OVER - NEW AMERICA FORMED
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gorilla Mafia Scum
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I've found my first nukeIn post 42, The Church of Skitter wrote:I would like to voice strong objection to the flavour being that communists are the bad guys here when clearly it should be the other way round
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As much as she has earned my eternal ire, I think she is probably town.In post 66, T3 wrote:unless you nuke samantha-
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Fair warning: I will probably vote for whatever wagon is largest regardless of my actual reads, in the hope of accelerating this game to the part where we get to shoot da nookz.
That being said, here are my reads.
GOOD:
Cephrir
Et Al
samantha
Pooky
Equinox
Titus
Prism
Save The Dragons
EVIL:
Church of Skitter
Vaxkiller
Nexus
T3
Null reads are for pinkos. We're at war, pick a side.-
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ScumIn post 96, mastina wrote:Oh fuck.
I was supposed to draw scum this game.
This is DEFCON MAFIA. You're supposed to be a TROLL.
I don't know how to troll as town! Shit!
Uh...don't suppose someone here can teach me?
VOTE: Total War
That's the troll thing to do, right?
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LMFAOIn post 169, Et Al wrote:
Oh yeah I should mentionIn post 148, The Church of Skitter wrote:I bet pooky leaves his silo in ABM mode all game
Ultra bait
Don't do this, basically ever. UT won the last game because he did it and managed to convince people that it was a town blunder.
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He changed the randomization to timing? That seems silly.In post 216, joqiza wrote:so we submit our choices for troops as soon as defcon 4 starts
troops are like PRs it seems. i think all else equal we'd like town to have these powers?
troops are unique. only 1 person can have each troop. there are more players than troops, so not everyone gets one.
if there's a conflict with drafts (i.e. two or more people want the same troop) than whoever submits the PM to the mod first gets it. lmao.
therefore, i propose we hammer into defcon 4 at some coordinated or agreed upon time in thread, to maximize the ability for townies to procure their desired troop. we have the advantage of numbers, scum have the advantage of coordination: we should try to even that playing field.
at the least, all townies should have the troop draft PM to the mod ready and waiting to go as soon as we enter defcon 4.
this is assuming i'm not misunderstanding something about the mechs. plz correct me if so.
joqiza can be town for pointing this out and trying to strategize around it, though.-
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ScumIn post 221, Bell wrote:Gorilla, Prism, Sam, are giving out vibes but I'm not sure if they're town vibes or scum vibes.
Weak incline on town vibe for sam, but I'm not sure how I feel about the town bin.
I'm no sure how I feel about Deasveal following up as third either, not that I have a single clue what the difference between Def con 3 and 5 is. I took it to mean "more talky" "less nuclear"
I know we're here for the nukes, but the only reason we're all still here in this not nuclear wasteland is because people slowed down a little.-
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A blank post would have been more informative.In post 225, Bell wrote:Then again, I kind of do, do that back and forth wishy washy stuff as scum too. It's just, obviously I wouldn't be the first one trying to give out reads and playing in RVS.
You have my permission to skip them
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with regard to role drafting, I'm going to quote this from the previous game. The point about drafting the submarine is a strong one.
RedCoyote wrote:Subject: DEFCON Mafia 3.0 - Over, American Victory!
Magua wrote:Defcon 4 Guide
Ignorance of the rules is no excuse. Understand things before you make your selections.
1. You get to choose between being able to nuke/defend from a nuke ("missile silo"), and having a PR ("troops").
2. If you choose "Troops", you get to list which PRs you want in the order that you want them. You don't need to include all the items; it can be as little as one. There's a draft, where you're more likely to get things high on the list than low.If you don't end up with anything on your list, you get a missile silo.
The troop choices are:
Fighter: Rolecop
Espionage: Cop (one faction at a time)
Aircraft Carrier: Roleblocker
Battleship: Doctor
Radar: Tracker (does not track night-kills)
Counterintelligence: Framer/lawyer
Submarine: Anonymous daykill (starting D3)
Eavesdrop: Get PMed 1/6-1/3 of scum QT
Air Base: Immune to night actions
Fallout Shelter: Immune to daykills
Fail Safe: Vengeful
3. Scum get to coordinate their checks. We don't.
4. The SK gets one free pick, outside of the draft.
So, with all that in mind, some advice:
1. Do not choose missile silo. Do not do this.If all you want is a missile silo, choose Troops and list Submarine as your only choice.It's critical that we keep this out of scum hands. We may not be able to stop the SK from getting it, but we can make him use his free pick on it, and we can keep scum from getting this altogether.The more people who do this, the better chance that town gets Submarine instead of scum.You either get a Submarine, which is awesome, or you get a missile silo, which is what you wanted to begin with.
2. If you're going for troops, I'd advise against a "steal from the scum" mentality. Better to have Espionage than Counter-espionage, better to have Fighters than Air Base. I'd also advise against going for Submarine -- leave those to the people hopefully following point 1. Fighter, Aircraft Carrier, Espionage, and Battleship are all really good powers that deserve top spots on your list -- at best, you'll get one, at worst you'll make it harder for scum to get them.
3. I'd really advise putting Fail Safe (Vengeful) on your list. Unless you expect to get night-killed N1 or N2, it's categorically worse than just having a missile silo.
4. WIFOM it up in the thread. Town benefits from a certain spread to the selections, but only if scum don't know what it is.-
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In post 387, joqiza wrote:folks, after further research i have learned that not only are troop drafts based on whoever PMs the mod first in defcon 4, but defcon 4 itself starts not when deadline is reached / when defcon 5 is hammered, but rather when the mod posts that it is defcon 4In post 388, joqiza wrote:not sure i'm a huge fan of this system but when in rome@mod can we please use the randomization to resolve drafting conflicts that was in prior games? having it be timing based is arbitrary and unfair-
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That way lies pain and misery my friendIn post 446, samantha97 wrote:people sleeping on eavesdropper
completely shuts down mafia coordination if town gets it-
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Can you explain these?In post 518, mastina wrote:
Actually, you are, and it is specificallyIn post 382, Vaxkiller wrote:I'm not acting any different than the last game we just played together as both town, and you hard town read me there.becauseof the differences I'm seeing between that game and this one that make me think you're scum here.-
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I am certain he was going to play like this regardless of his role and you should not read too much into it in that regard, although I think he has been fine so far.In post 524, T3 wrote:I refuse to believe a scum Pooky can fake this. No.
mastina, can you explain your Vax read? He looked reasonably towny to me.-
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Honestly the pressure on mastina feels more awkward than mastina herself, I called out her entry post but seeing that it was a joke makes it effectively null, her reads are just whatever to me, definitely think if she's town some scum saw her as an easy push (Church and Lady's "votes" look iffy in that regard).
I don't have super strong scumreads right now which might just point to an inactive team of Russkies.
If I could vote right now I'd probaby just be shrug voting VFP. It's a cheap read but I think it's the best lead I have right now.-
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Well the first post was a direct reference to the previous DEFCON game, so likely preplanned regardless of alignment.In post 665, The Church of Skitter wrote:I know that I've seen her do it as scum like in another game she had a very similar opening where it was like, trying to be scummy, and sometimes as scum mastina likes to be scummy and then slow and progressively get more town later on. That's basically what she explained she was doing in Turn of Camn inside the scum PT so like I pretty much have nothing else better to do with my vote so........
My vague recollection of old mastin was reams or words regardless of alignment but as scum it was empty noise. Here? Her reads don't really amount to more than gutreads ATM despite the verbosity,
I think deep-city-lights picking up their role PM but not actually confirming is likely scum indicative. That's an angleshooty read but it is what it is. Can't ignore it.In post 666, The Church of Skitter wrote:why is VFP the best lead you have atm?
You are right, that is a weird question. I wasn't thinking of anything in particular, but there are a number of people who haven't said much so far:In post 667, The Church of Skitter wrote:
Also weird question but no reason not to ask it:In post 664, gorilla wrote:I don't have super strong scumreads right now which might just point to an inactive team of Russkies.
What series of pages do you feel like scum were just absent?
Now, some people are probably just chilling and not taking the game very seriously. But I also think scum might show up early, place a vote for confirmation, and then simply not have the motivation to stay in thread for continued discussion, because they have no interest in hunting. I'm not saying every lurker is necessarily scum but I think attention should be given to those slots when the game proper starts.-
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All my posts are brilliant, thank youIn post 675, Prism wrote:I'm finding it really hard to stay interested in mafia at the moment but I don't see why people have gorilla or myself as town. This is very par for the course, mastina's read makes no sense even if I feel she's town anyway, and gorilla really hasn't done anything special either except for 664, which is a good post.-
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This feels like a rather flippant and reductive dismissal of my reasoning.In post 722, Cephrir wrote:Seduce me with posts that make uninteresting observations on probability uwu
There is probably 1 scum in the last 4 players on the player list
NoIn post 723, The Church of Skitter wrote:
tbh I'm not sure how this answer actually helps me. Can you list of a range of pages you think just doesn't have scum posting in them?In post 719, gorilla wrote:You are right, that is a weird question. I wasn't thinking of anything in particular, but there are a number of people who haven't said much so far:
[image]
Now, some people are probably just chilling and not taking the game very seriously. But I also think scum might show up early, place a vote for confirmation, and then simply not have the motivation to stay in thread for continued discussion, because they have no interest in hunting. I'm not saying every lurker is necessarily scum but I think attention should be given to those slots when the game proper starts.-
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In post 1081, T3 wrote:There is only death!
VOTE: DeasVail
I don't particularly like mastina right now but I think this might be the better lim.In post 1085, T3 wrote:Silent vote from a player who hasn't done anything all game on to a townread of mine.
Hmm...This is scum, FYI. Second quote in particular reads incredibly forced
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In post 853, Nexus wrote:jsyk i'm basically ignoring mastina's reads list because they're tedious. I could see her as scum but I'm also shit at mafia so who knows.
Tonally these posts struck me as town.In post 920, Nexus wrote:I lie. I read the readslist to watch myself slowly sink lower and lower like the pit of depression I exist in.-
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I sense there are personal feeings seeping into the vote. I'm not sure that it's alignment indicative either way though.In post 1391, joqiza wrote:look the sense i got was that there was weird vitriol towards her and i guess it's similar to how people treat sam in that sense, bc people are really awful to him sometimes, but i'm not sure the situations line up in my head besides tha-
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In post 887, Prism wrote:The fact that Et Al has Church of Skitter as scummy puts them immediately on my shit list. I didn't share the same concerns as everyone on S_S but I think the Church slot's reads are very natural and the questioning organic
I disliked these posts from Prism quite a bit, but she replaced out before I could question her about them. The reasoning here in defense of Church felt strained, giving one liner reads that mostly call people townie without much support is a very easy thing to do and I don't see why she'd have found them "natural".In post 892, Prism wrote:It is bad because it is specifically Mena/Skitter whose dynamic I saw in 2181
These are all natural even if underexplained. I disagree with gorilla town but understand why people townread him, for example. Equi+Reck was another one that stuck out to me the same way, as is Sam. IIRC Mena had a weird theory about reading me from 2181 but that is the only moderately red flag to me here.In post 651, The Church of Skitter wrote:Ya I'm honestly not sure if there is anything else that's even worth having my vote on tbh.
Cephir is probably fine
Bell is probably fine but I need to keep an open mind
Prism is probably fine but I should probably be keeping an open mind
Pooky is showing us that he is proud to be an American
gorilla seems probably fine
Equi + Reck seems fine so far but I need to keep an open mind
Sam is probably fine-
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Oh, awkward, I thought you replaced Merlot because the replacements happened close together and I wasn't paying attention. Well I like what you're doing so far so I'll keep an open mindIn post 1410, Mognet wrote:
You realize I am Prism, well not literally that’d be awkward Kupo. We’re the same slot.In post 1409, gorilla wrote:In post 887, Prism wrote:The fact that Et Al has Church of Skitter as scummy puts them immediately on my shit list. I didn't share the same concerns as everyone on S_S but I think the Church slot's reads are very natural and the questioning organic
I disliked these posts from Prism quite a bit, but she replaced out before I could question her about them. The reasoning here in defense of Church felt strained, giving one liner reads that mostly call people townie without much support is a very easy thing to do and I don't see why she'd have found them "natural".In post 892, Prism wrote:It is bad because it is specifically Mena/Skitter whose dynamic I saw in 2181
These are all natural even if underexplained. I disagree with gorilla town but understand why people townread him, for example. Equi+Reck was another one that stuck out to me the same way, as is Sam. IIRC Mena had a weird theory about reading me from 2181 but that is the only moderately red flag to me here.In post 651, The Church of Skitter wrote:Ya I'm honestly not sure if there is anything else that's even worth having my vote on tbh.
Cephir is probably fine
Bell is probably fine but I need to keep an open mind
Prism is probably fine but I should probably be keeping an open mind
Pooky is showing us that he is proud to be an American
gorilla seems probably fine
Equi + Reck seems fine so far but I need to keep an open mind
Sam is probably fine-
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Can you explain these a little bit? Just a sentence or two for each one would be fine.In post 1486, DeasVail wrote:I've read up to page 50 and I'm taking a break but I also feel like posting something, partly so that it looks like I'm doing something and partly because I might forget what my thoughts are otherwise.
But here we go.
People I think are town:
LLD
Mognet
Pooky
Et Al
Koto
Church
Titus
DeathNote
samantha97
marry
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If you didn't make the cut, I'm sorry. But you still have between page 50 and 60 to make it onto my list so there's a chance!-
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Scum have rarely opposed total war in this setup and his reasoning was the reasoning many town players had when I first played this setupIn post 1507, The Church of Skitter wrote:
This take is extremely surface level dude.In post 1488, gorilla wrote:I don't scumread joqizahim but mognet picking at someone for hedging is a perfectly fine method of reading and his overall play is very town motivated
First off its not a fine method of reading it straight up isn't something that scum actually does and the logic behind it is ass. His play is town motivated if you aren't reading the game closely and you just see his posts on a glance and go "oh ya this is town ig" but to me it reads like he's doing everything to look town. I think his stance on total war comes from scum who wants to stand out in a playerlist where everyone just wants to get to the nukes. I think he's being anti-total war because if ur scum in this pl and you try to hard to actually want to play mafia, you're probably going to get townread by a bunch of people who just want to get to the nukes as quickly as possible. This also allows him to establish a platform or a "bloc" that he can invade to make sure he doesn't get nuked later. It's like the entire theme of his play.
Oh and also joq is probably town which means its more likely for the dude to be scum.
Bad logic doesn't always come from. I've seen townies vote off terrible logic. I think what he is saying is understandable for a town aligned player even if I don't agree with it, and I think scum often like to attack townies with bad/illogical reads-
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I think Titus seems like disconnected town. I wouldn't take that read to the bank but it's what my gut saysIn post 1516, Mognet wrote:
Yay! I have erected a house for you to come in for my block. Who else is in it gorilla?In post 1488, gorilla wrote:I think church is trying to string up mognet over an incorrect scumread and it's scummy. I don't scumread joqizahim but mognet picking at someone for hedging is a perfectly fine method of reading and his overall play is very town motivated
Also let Church do their thing. They’re trying to sort me. I am not sure if it’s a scum thing or not yet but it is weird. I think LLD/Church/Titus has at least one Russian but Titus’s response seems way more scummy than Church’s.-
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Regarding the block question, I think Bell is town because people who now him have insisted on it + he got up my butt about calling an early post of his scum and asked me about it later, like he didn't want to let go of it. marry made a post where they said they thought they had to submit a list of all the roles in order for the draft and i think that is much more likely to come from a town perspctive.In post 1521, gorilla wrote:
I think Titus seems like disconnected town. I wouldn't take that read to the bank but it's what my gut saysIn post 1516, Mognet wrote:
Yay! I have erected a house for you to come in for my block. Who else is in it gorilla?In post 1488, gorilla wrote:I think church is trying to string up mognet over an incorrect scumread and it's scummy. I don't scumread joqizahim but mognet picking at someone for hedging is a perfectly fine method of reading and his overall play is very town motivated
Also let Church do their thing. They’re trying to sort me. I am not sure if it’s a scum thing or not yet but it is weird. I think LLD/Church/Titus has at least one Russian but Titus’s response seems way more scummy than Church’s.
I understand why you dislike the hedginess of joqiza but he did make posts early where he pointed out the (bad) change to the draft system to be timing based and had wanted to try to exploit it in a protown fashion. Not locktown forever status maybe but I wouldn't want him irradiated early.
I had an early gutread on samantha based on her explanation surrounding voting against total war, didn't feel like something scum would lead off with. But that read is quite stale now, I haven't been paying attention to what she's said since then.-
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Why are you talking about "space to breathe" when most of the game has agreed to pile onto mastina and fall asleep otherwise? Who is mognet not allowing to breathe here?In post 1535, The Church of Skitter wrote:
No you can't because you can't understand how we got to this point in time w/o having read the game.In post 1530, Mognet wrote:
I can do both Kupo.In post 1519, The Church of Skitter wrote:
BRO YOU HAVEN'T EVEN BEEN CATCHING UP YOU'VE JUST BEEN PLAYING SHUT THE FUCK UPIn post 1517, Mognet wrote:
Limiting my catch-up time is scummy Kupo especially with no reads.In post 1492, joqiza wrote:I'll hammer when I get off work today, which should be around 6pm cst
IF YOU'RE GOING TO CATCH UP AND READ THE GAME, GO FUCKING READ THE GAME INSTEAD OF PLAY
Read while quiet and respond when I do.
These are not mutually exclusive
Most scum say this and never actually read-up.
I want you to shut up.
I want you to read.
I want you to give the thread some fucking space to breathe.
And when you're done, then play.
Because I feel like you're just saying this w/o actually reading up, and its fine to not read the game just be honest with yourself about it. You don't have to read every game you replace into, but saying you will when you're not at all doing that and then accusing someone of limiting your catch-up time is wack-
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I was hoping Church would further explain their read of you because it seemed spicy in my viewIn post 1603, The Entity wrote:What I find interesting is how Equinox reads you as town when you post shit like *this*.-
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Robert is very likely town.In post 1846, Robert M Hunter wrote:
Let's just say I am the town mirror version of this kind of thinking.In post 1842, joqiza wrote:her main utility to scum was served by confirming to them that there was no town eavesdropper.-
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So I have a little spiel: I went and looked at the previous DEFCON games, and in 3.0 and 4.0, the only ones to use this alignment distribution, there were actually very few group scum who tried to draft troops - in both games only 1 got a PR, and the rest were silos, although one in 4.0 tried to draft eavesdropper and missed out on it. The simple fact of the matter is that most of the PRs are simply not that useful to mafia compared to a silo. Take something like counterintelligence - while theoretically a framer/lawyer is beneficial to mafia, the likelihood of it ever coming into play is very very low - there's simply too many night action targets. A silo by comparison is much more practical. Especially given mastina's flip, I would bank on scum only having 1 more PR - the only ones with real appeal are espionage, battleship, and maybe fighter. Keep this in mind for when people start claiming.-
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Reading page 75, I still think samantha is town. I don't think mafia raises the possibility of a bus after their teammate got hardshoved, far more likely to hang back and stay out of the way. No utility to asking that question as scum. (I think LLD will sort herself at this point, though)
Anyway, I think the mastina wagon is probably filthy with scum - she was getting hardpushed and her role had absolutely no value. I think examining the votes there is likely to prove fruitful.
If there's a single scum at the top of her list it's the Prism slot, otherwise I think this list is likely town as I suspect mastona's a player who tries to be honest as mafia and only townread town.In post 136, mastina wrote:PookyTheMagicalBear
gorilla
Prism
Cephrir (fastest backtrack in the west: I thought his opener was scum but his posts since then make me think town)
samantha97
I also think mastina's vaxkiller scumread was mafia fosing a town, I don't think that was distancing.
Add Bell and joqiza as townreads and I think that's solid.-
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gorilla Mafia Scum
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gorilla Mafia Scum
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In post 1081, T3 wrote:There is only death!
VOTE: DeasVail
I don't particularly like mastina right now but I think this might be the better lim.In post 1085, T3 wrote:Silent vote from a player who hasn't done anything all game on to a townread of mine.
Hmm...To the end of looking for scum in mastina voters: I think this is a good place to start.
VOTE: T3-
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gorilla Mafia Scum
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I'm never going to townread someone who was making a defense of mafia on a day 1elim. It takes a gutsy sort of player to do that, but for all I know you could be some kind of don corleone playing on a secret alt.In post 1891, Mognet wrote:You realize gorilla Kupo that I received Prism’s missive right?
Therefore your argument does not make sense unless you are arguing I was bussing Mastina?
That does not follow.
But I'm not interested in voting you right now either. I just don't super townread you.-
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gorilla Mafia Scum
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mastina (13) - Vaxkiller, VFP, Lady Lambdadelta, The Church of Skitter, The Entity, Titus, PookyTheMagicalBear, marry, Nexus, T3, Cephrir, Toogeloo, samantha97
Vax doesn't make 284 teamed with mastina. I doubt they were bussing out the gate
VFP replaced deep-city-lights, and mastina agreed with my angleshooty suspicion there - I think that's townpoints for VFP, but the way he followed on to the vote and the comments he made around it don't inspire confidence. 1176 is very strange. I don't like him opening the day with an immediate vote for marry either, I think marry is overall town and just because she didn't understand the reasons for scumreading mastina doesn't make her scum.
LLD willsrt herself, like I said. No sense tinfoiling.
Funny thing: I totally thought Church and Entity were scum theatering yesterday. Now, meh. I'm content to leave them alone, will reread at some point but I sort of expect scum to be trying to hang in the background
I don't really think Titus sheeps that vote the way she did as scum. could be wrong, not a strong townread,
Pooky died a hero and should be buried in Arlington
marry is a townread for other reasons. I actually think mastina bantering with her about seattle in 769 is townpoints for them because scum bantering about non game related things is very pockety. 1192 doesn't look like a bus vote either.
Nexus I could see as a busser. Had some posts as tonally town but just kind of went with the wagon without a real sense of progression.
Cephrir I think is just town on play and mastina's reads etc
Toogeloo is faintly town but not someone I'd clear
samantha is very likely town.
so, T3, VFP, Nexus are the ones I'd look into in the immediate term-
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gorilla Mafia Scum
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gorilla Mafia Scum
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