Yggdrasil - Stratum FINAL -

[jjh927]

Damn I didn't think this through; if I'm gonna engage with the game I probably have to post in RVS

[jjh927]

Hmm, I agree with the maths and I was considering dropping a vote on TSQ anyway

VOTE: TSQ

[jjh927]

This playerlist is fantastic, especially for a large

[jjh927]

This playerlist is fantastic, especially for a large

you can't just buddy the whole playerlist like that you have to go one by one wrestler

Watch me

[jjh927]

My vote was not serious in that did not signify a desire to elim, but it was serious in that it serves purpose

[jjh927]

FISH AT THE POND

[jjh927]

Legitimately, I think we should leave LLD to be solved by scum. There's likely a SK which means she's probably not going to endgame and even if she is scum getting that lim is going to be a gigantic PITA. If we just assume she's town that should save me a lot of effort.

If we look to elim LLD in D1, it's probably not gonna be above chance no matter what.

[jjh927]

Legitimately, I think we should leave LLD to be solved by scum. There's likely a SK which means she's probably not going to endgame and even if she is scum getting that lim is going to be a gigantic PITA. If we just assume she's town that should save me a lot of effort.

If we look to elim LLD in D1, it's probably not gonna be above chance no matter what.

The astute may note that this is a slightly more advanced take of the lazy ass one I had in team mafia regarding LLD ("If LLD is scum, there is no way that she is the easiest scum to find so we're better off looking elsewhere", however I didn't even stick to it there and I will be sticking to this one

[jjh927]

Legitimately, I think we should leave LLD to be solved by scum. There's likely a SK which means she's probably not going to endgame and even if she is scum getting that lim is going to be a gigantic PITA. If we just assume she's town that should save me a lot of effort.

If we look to elim LLD in D1, it's probably not gonna be above chance no matter what.

This wasn't a D1 strategy. This is a until we flip a third party strategy. I'm saying we completely ignore the possibility that LLD is scum on the premise that there is probably someone with a gun in the game who will shoot her for us if she is.

I don't think we should commit to anything beyond day 1 on day 1

[jjh927]

Currently the person with the most posts is unwnd, so if we just balance ourselves out enough and keep getting unwnd to do votecounts by changing votes repeatedly then LLD will be forced to kill the mod

VOTE: White Fire

[jjh927]

Chara, play pikmin again

Pikmin is the greatest game series of all time

Did you know it's pikmin's 20th anniversary in october? And that pikmin 3 deluxe is the best selling game in the franchise?

Do nintendo know I would pay full price for ports of pikmin 1 and 2 on the switch?

[jjh927]

I don't know why I townread jjh's brand of shitposting but I do.

Probably because it serves a purpose

I'm trying to get myself engaged with the game and the players in it from the get go

[jjh927]

Chara, play pikmin again

Pikmin is the greatest game series of all time

Did you know it's pikmin's 20th anniversary in october? And that pikmin 3 deluxe is the best selling game in the franchise?

Do nintendo know I would pay full price for ports of pikmin 1 and 2 on the switch?

i've been pocketed by jjh.

but i don't need ports, i have a wii u. all it does is play wind waker and pikmin 3. i love my wii u.

I also have a wii u but I still want ports and also pikmin 4 please

[jjh927]

VOTE: Guillotina

[jjh927]

I replaced out in order to debate whether the modkill was justifiable fwiw and will post more when I am at my computer

[jjh927]

I'm not engaging in that conversation, either of you.

You wanna be right? Be right. I don't fucking care. Don't sign up for my games in the determined future. That's your freedom and I will not take that from you.

I think the conversation is worth having since I think the listmod involved who approved the modkill also did not properly understand or react proportionately to the rule in question. One game is no big deal, but I'm more concerned about the matter of consistency across games on site, as this is a higher level misunderstanding. This is completely independent of arguments regarding the quality of Mastina's paraphrasing, although I'm quite prepared to argue in that arena as well. I don't appreciate that you're hiding your head in the sand over a possible error of judgment when this is something you could learn from.


It is a site rule- "Do not quote communications with the moderator (in particular, your role PM). Paraphrasing is usually ok."
I believe that to 'quote' requires attribution or to be presented in such a way as for a person to assume that the words stated belonged to someone else, in this case the moderator.

Consider the following scenario:
In a theme game, a player aligned with the mafia claims to have the exact same role as a dead town player who had already publicly flipped, even though they do not have such a role. They then proceed to use that role PM as a base, change the player name, image, and any flavour names in the flipped role PM to suit themselves, and then they post it, claiming that it is the role PM they received from the mod.

I believe that player would certainly be modkilled under this rule as quoting private communications from the moderator. However, they would not have actually copy pasted any private communication from the moderator- everything copy pasted would have been public knowledge, as well as not being something that they received. This would be because to quote the moderator requires attribution- and it does not require the content to be truthfully the words used by the moderator. Therefore, the words used in themself do not actually matter. The way that the 'quote' is presented is absolutely key, both in terms of how much damage is caused to the game, and in terms of whether the rule has been broken. I believe that as Mastina did not attribute any words to the moderator, there was no damage to the gamestate. I would also note that no players suddenly believed Mastina's claim

as a result of the way it was presented

, which is the only form of damage to the gamestate that a transgression against this rule could possibly cause. As a game moderator, you do not modkill when there is no damage to the gamestate. A modkill is a last ditch damage control when there is no other option available.

[jjh927]

Honestly, an acknowledgment that you made a mistake and an apology recognising that the modkill did in fact damage the game in a way that Mastina's post did not would go a long way

[jjh927]

Those who agree with the modkill-

What damage to the game did Mastina cause?

[jjh927]

But the bar for what constitutes paraphrasing is anything but consistent, as it would vary dramatically from moderator to moderator

The exact scenarios for when game damage is caused by a transgression of that rule, on the other hand, are extremely consistent. The player must present information in a way that is either directly attributed or appears to be attributed to the moderator

[jjh927]

If you looked at Mastina's post without knowledge of role PMs, could you tell if a single phrase was from unwnd and not from Mastina paraphrasing? That's an easy litmus test that could be carried about by a listmod in response to this kind of thing before they authorise a modkill

[jjh927]

You are making two different arguments right now jjh. You are saying that this mod kill was in error, and you are also that the bar for paraphrasing role pms should be changed

If you think that the bar should be changed, that is a fair discussion to have for future cases, but it doesn't have bearing on this game. The bar is back there in a place you don't agree with, and you can't get mad at all three of the people who agreed with where the bar was, just because you think it should be in a different place. These are different conversations. Basically, you can say that the Mastina kill shouldn't have happened because you don't agree with the rules, but you can't say that the ruling was applied incorrectly.

That's my take, I didn't want Mastina to have been modkilled either.

I don't think they're mutually exclusive- I think the mod kill was in error and that the rule regarding paraphrasing role PMs needs to be more clearly clarified for the sake of consistency and avoiding unnecessary modkills

As far as I'm aware, this wasn't ran by all the listmods, just one

[jjh927]

I don't think people understand what "quote" means in "Do not quote communications with the moderator"