AI UPCIK PART II | Compromised

[NDMath]

My guess would be that the 2 Mastina's role pm has them start the game dead and they either affect the game from deadchat or come alive later on.

VOTE: KittyTacky
Ka-bam

[NDMath]

I have it on good authority (though NOT confirmed) that Dwlee is Town here.

I suspect they got the role I submitted, which would have been Town-aligned, so I trust 'em in lieu of anything wacky happening

I may be wrong, but my understanding is that our submissions were entered as a list and that our roles are what the AI decided to add to the list; meaning that it isn't a 1:1 submission to somebody's role.

[NDMath]

Are you sure you are the oldest person here? I think I might have you beat.

Show your hand..

A50 leantown from this post alone.

[NDMath]

VOTE: momrangal

I will sheep the water mouse.

[NDMath]

Bad move rubiks cube

I mean I wasn't exactly trying all that hard to make a good one.

So, for clarifications purposes : the way the setup was generated is that the roles you gave were fed to an AI, and it created a setup, hope it is clear like that

That was rather unclarifying.

[NDMath]

I mean I wasn't exactly trying all that hard to make a good one.

Isn't that kinda costly in the world of rubiks cubing?

It can be, I like to take risks sometimes though.



I do not think whether or not we had to submit an alignment with our role is particularly useful?

[NDMath]

I just read 4 pages and despite the vote changes I don't feel like anything actually happened??

Maybe I should restart reading the game. It feels so preliminary still tho

Do you have a better method of making something out of nothing than shifting around votes?

[NDMath]

Who would y'all dayvig if you had a compulsive one?

Kitty, but def wouldn't want to shoot now.


imo the unwnd/rat interaction looks good for unwnd and meh for rat.

[NDMath]

I think gamma's light defense of unwnd likely comes from town, just since I'm not sure scum!gamma would write it.

Scumlean on Titus; nothing in her iso catches my eye (which is abnormal even for this early) besides #366.

[NDMath]

I woke up sick today and haven't had the energy to try to concentrate on the game. Will probably be a similar situation tomorrow.

[NDMath]

I just read 4 pages and despite the vote changes I don't feel like anything actually happened??

Maybe I should restart reading the game. It feels so preliminary still tho

Do you have a better method of making something out of nothing than shifting around votes?

What do you mean by making something out of nothing? We have 15+ pages of conversation! If that's still nothing then like, we're all very bad at this game.

I've Iso'd the 3 slots I've seen the most suspicion about thus far.
Momrangal is a eeird wagkn. I have no idesla why she was deemed suspicious for the overreaction to mastina and mollie's death. There's no content and not much to parse. Null slot.

Rad Rat seems pretty towny. I think the way they post is townleaning and the linenof questioning as well as the adjustments as nee info comes to light are good at this stage in the game. They're pushing things along. Good stuff!

Dragon of the West seems scummy to me. Ither than the latest posts about unwnd everything has either been fluff or mechanical talk. That's an easy way for scum to float along, in a slow game especially. Id3like to see so.e pressure here today.

VOTE: DotW

I probably could've stated it clearer, but I think you understood.

I follow your reasoning on rat.
Also I don't like the "why me" response from DotW to your post.
VOTE: Dragon of the West

I think gamma's light defense of unwnd likely comes from town, just since I'm not sure scum!gamma would write it.

Scumlean on Titus; nothing in her iso catches my eye (which is abnormal even for this early) besides #366.

I agree it's unusual for Titus to not have much right now, but she was also V/LA and has been sick. I'm willing to give her another day before I start scum reading her.

Whoops. I don't really process V/LA's on this site because they often don't actually affect activity much.

[NDMath]

I agree that Skybird's scumread on dwlee is weird, but I don't see anything scum-indicative about it. Overall her activity/presence is strong and I townlean their more aggressive/direct approach.

[NDMath]

and Gamma's pretty obviously Town for me right now.

Can you explain this one? I've got gamma at a pretty solid null right now.

[NDMath]

hate 312 just seems like fluff

383 comes off as forced. being null on mom isn't controversial, and while being pro RR might be, i really dislike the DOTW vote justification (floating) when see 312.

I don't really townread ari currently, but to me 383 is his best post so it's weird that that's the one he's getting voted for. I also just don't get why the dotw vote and 312 are contradictory? Like 312 is saying no results are occurring from people tryna get the game moving and the vote is for a particular player barely trying to make stuff happen at that point in time.

[NDMath]

Meg should not be allowed to hammer.
Investigation immunity is a unique and verifiable property, and overriding that with Miller makes that claim unverifiable.

In Dwlee's case, however, if they're lying, they're scum anyway, so becoming a Miller would change nothing.

RR's beliefs towards dwlee's and Mega's claims are still rather eerie to me.

[NDMath]

I'm struggling with that Kop's posts are more, philosophical(?) than direct thoughts. I have to assume it's primarily a posting style thing, but it makes him seem fencesitty in most of his opinions.

[NDMath]

Alright, I'm understanding.
VOTE: Kop


"DAY"
I'm hypothesizing they can post indefinitely at night.

[NDMath]

should I just hammer this

it'd be funny

I'd laugh.

(this is not an endorsement)

[NDMath]

VOTE: RR
I definitely prefer this to A50.
This is probably the towniest A50 has been in my experience with him; he's been heavily advancing the game, his tone is well-intentioned, and the high activity is also a good sign for him.


@Gamma, What does 'some room' even mean this late into the day phase?

[NDMath]

Am feeling better about the Ari vote than I was earlier but still would prefer RR.

I'll be back a little before deadline in case nothing's hammered by then but the situation appears it'll be under control.

Dwlee who are you willing to compromise on?

maybe a50

It's like he's doing everything to tank my read on him

I think the RR push was bad. This DotW push is bad. Feels like he is just wagoning people to get claims out of them

What makes those pushes bad to you?

[NDMath]

VOTE: DotW

There you go.

[NDMath]

I'll need to read the Mastina/molly post again since that was nearly two weeks ago.

A50 is still my top townread, faking an inno there is ridiculous thing to do there as scum (barring an ari scumflip later) because it draws attention for no tangible purpose. Whereas I feel there does exist some small incentives for town in that position.

I haven't changed my opinion of Skybird being town from tone.

Am feeling better about Taroumaru despite their lackluster iso. I don't think they can be w/w with Yuki either.

Morning Tweet also has a very strong entrance.
Although I'm not following why you're townreading rat.

I almost want to say RR blatantly missing this and then proceeding to keep up the scumread on A50 (despite a locktown from mastinas) is towny for being not even remotely self conscious. Guess it could also be lazy but, does scum!RR realistically expect to get an A50 wagon going?

No, seriously, do they? I don't know how the thread receives A50. I'm under the impression he's townread somewhat well

If 'this' refers to what I'm understanding it to, I don't think it means anything on the basis that seemingly everyone besides you had interpreted it the way RR did.
Why does scum!RR care if they get an A50 wagon going day1?

[NDMath]

1. RadicalRat
2. Enchant
3. PookyTheMagicalBear
4. Yuki
5. Titus
6. Gamma Emerald
7. Aristophanes
8. Dwlee99
9. Taroumaru
10. Morning Tweet
11. Skybird
12. Almost50
13. NDMath

ive used this shit before its awesome

I'm inherently skeptical of gth lists from homesite experiences but probably will be interesting.

[NDMath]

My list is more similar to M&M's then I would like it to be, but there isn't a read I would want to change much at the moment. I have mostly different reasoning from them.

[NDMath]

Am feeling better about the Ari vote than I was earlier but still would prefer RR.

I'm confused by this statement ND. You were voting RR at the time, not Ari. But the statement almost sounds like your vote was on Ari. Can you talk about this?

the Ari vote as in the wagon occurring on Ari.
Still prefer RR as in I'm not switching my vote from RR to Ari.

[NDMath]

Get off my wagon. Seriously.

Do you think you're being pushed primarily by town or scum?

[NDMath]

I'm more confident on dwlee being town after reading their day2 again; it's very aimless (for lack of a better term) which I've found to be a town trait for them in prior games, as well as the general implications of agendalessness.

[NDMath]

Tarou and ND are both a little below nullscum for me since i found their stances sort of convenient for scum although i obviously only put as much stock in that as i can for a D2 in a game like this.

What do you mean by convenient for scum?

Am feeling better about the Ari vote than I was earlier but still would prefer RR.

I'll be back a little before deadline in case nothing's hammered by then but the situation appears it'll be under control.

it doesn't feel like you were particularly concerned which wagon died -- which fits with my idea that most or all were town. Which also makes sense with how most of the game is low impact, i expect scum could get away with leading wagons easier.

Hey we're to the fake Inno on Ari. Originally I was like "okay well scum followed the vote without caring, why?" -- I am thinking it's because there's scum in the voters and both wagons were town. I guess that's not an earth shattering conclusion though but it makes sense given it seems this game is super fucking slow and people can plausibly be like "Whatever we just need to get something thru" without questioning much

I think if there were more town on RR there'd be a "Bullshit no way" response. Or if Ari were town and RR!scum there'd also have been a bullshit no way. But.. there wasn't.

At that point in time it seemed like Ari was for sure gonna die, being at seven votes and deadline very soon. It didn't seem like an awful outcome I guess, and I'm just not someone capable of persuading half the game.

I'm not comprehending why "if there was more town on RR matters"? I also disagree with the town!Ari and scum!RR conclusion in that DotW was both the second largest wagon and the wagon people switched to.

votecount 1.13

Dragon Of The West (5) :

Aristophanes ; Titus ; Almost50 ; Skybird ; MegAzumaril

Radical Rat (4) :

Taroumatu ; Yuki Takeya ; Radical Rat ; NDmath

Almost50 (3) :

superbowl9 ; Radical Rat ; Gamma Emerald

Yuki Takeya (2) :

unwnd ; Dragon Of The West

Skybird (1) :

Kop

Not Voting (1) :

Dwlee99

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-10-03 10:06:01), it takes 9 votes to execute someone

@mod - you have Radical Rat listed twice, once on himself and once on Almost50. Is that correct?

nope, i'll correct when doing next VC, thanks for pointing it out

Am feeling better about the Ari vote than I was earlier but still would prefer RR.

I'm confused by this statement ND. You were voting RR at the time, not Ari. But the statement almost sounds like your vote was on Ari. Can you talk about this?

the Ari vote as in the wagon occurring on Ari.
Still prefer RR as in I'm not switching my vote from RR to Ari.

But at the time you made post 811, the Ari wagon was gone. Vote count 1.13 was posted 12 hours before your post and it shows there was no Ari wagon.

If I didn't know better I would consider this a malicious lie.

Spoiler: Votes

VOTE: Ari

i don't really like the alternatives

VOTE: Aristophanes

Fine with going back here.

VOTE: Ari

I'd REALLY rather do A50, but...

VOTE: Aristophanes

VOTE: Ari

Vote:Ari

Arf Arf

I still want ari dead

VOTE: Ari

VOTE: aristophanes
sighhh

[NDMath]

Tarou and ND are both a little below nullscum for me since i found their stances sort of convenient for scum although i obviously only put as much stock in that as i can for a D2 in a game like this.

What do you mean by convenient for scum?

Am feeling better about the Ari vote than I was earlier but still would prefer RR.

I'll be back a little before deadline in case nothing's hammered by then but the situation appears it'll be under control.

it doesn't feel like you were particularly concerned which wagon died -- which fits with my idea that most or all were town. Which also makes sense with how most of the game is low impact, i expect scum could get away with leading wagons easier.

Hey we're to the fake Inno on Ari. Originally I was like "okay well scum followed the vote without caring, why?" -- I am thinking it's because there's scum in the voters and both wagons were town. I guess that's not an earth shattering conclusion though but it makes sense given it seems this game is super fucking slow and people can plausibly be like "Whatever we just need to get something thru" without questioning much

I think if there were more town on RR there'd be a "Bullshit no way" response. Or if Ari were town and RR!scum there'd also have been a bullshit no way. But.. there wasn't.

At that point in time it seemed like Ari was for sure gonna die, being at seven votes and deadline very soon. It didn't seem like an awful outcome I guess, and I'm just not someone capable of persuading half the game.

I'm not comprehending why "if there was more town on RR matters"? I also disagree with the town!Ari and scum!RR conclusion in that DotW was both the second largest wagon and the wagon people switched to.

votecount 1.13

Dragon Of The West (5) :

Aristophanes ; Titus ; Almost50 ; Skybird ; MegAzumaril

Radical Rat (4) :

Taroumatu ; Yuki Takeya ; Radical Rat ; NDmath

Almost50 (3) :

superbowl9 ; Radical Rat ; Gamma Emerald

Yuki Takeya (2) :

unwnd ; Dragon Of The West

Skybird (1) :

Kop

Not Voting (1) :

Dwlee99

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-10-03 10:06:01), it takes 9 votes to execute someone

@mod - you have Radical Rat listed twice, once on himself and once on Almost50. Is that correct?

nope, i'll correct when doing next VC, thanks for pointing it out

Am feeling better about the Ari vote than I was earlier but still would prefer RR.

I'm confused by this statement ND. You were voting RR at the time, not Ari. But the statement almost sounds like your vote was on Ari. Can you talk about this?

the Ari vote as in the wagon occurring on Ari.
Still prefer RR as in I'm not switching my vote from RR to Ari.

But at the time you made post 811, the Ari wagon was gone. Vote count 1.13 was posted 12 hours before your post and it shows there was no Ari wagon.

If I didn't know better I would consider this a malicious lie.

Spoiler: Votes

VOTE: Ari

i don't really like the alternatives

VOTE: Aristophanes

Fine with going back here.

VOTE: Ari

I'd REALLY rather do A50, but...

VOTE: Aristophanes

VOTE: Ari

Vote:Ari

Arf Arf

I still want ari dead

VOTE: Ari

VOTE: aristophanes
sighhh

[NDMath]

Tarou and ND are both a little below nullscum for me since i found their stances sort of convenient for scum although i obviously only put as much stock in that as i can for a D2 in a game like this.

What do you mean by convenient for scum?

Am feeling better about the Ari vote than I was earlier but still would prefer RR.

I'll be back a little before deadline in case nothing's hammered by then but the situation appears it'll be under control.

it doesn't feel like you were particularly concerned which wagon died -- which fits with my idea that most or all were town. Which also makes sense with how most of the game is low impact, i expect scum could get away with leading wagons easier.

Hey we're to the fake Inno on Ari. Originally I was like "okay well scum followed the vote without caring, why?" -- I am thinking it's because there's scum in the voters and both wagons were town. I guess that's not an earth shattering conclusion though but it makes sense given it seems this game is super fucking slow and people can plausibly be like "Whatever we just need to get something thru" without questioning much

I think if there were more town on RR there'd be a "Bullshit no way" response. Or if Ari were town and RR!scum there'd also have been a bullshit no way. But.. there wasn't.

At that point in time it seemed like Ari was for sure gonna die, being at seven votes and deadline very soon. It didn't seem like an awful outcome I guess, and I'm just not someone capable of persuading half the game.

I'm not comprehending why "if there was more town on RR matters"? I also disagree with the town!Ari and scum!RR conclusion in that DotW was both the second largest wagon and the wagon people switched to.

votecount 1.13

Dragon Of The West (5) :

Aristophanes ; Titus ; Almost50 ; Skybird ; MegAzumaril

Radical Rat (4) :

Taroumatu ; Yuki Takeya ; Radical Rat ; NDmath

Almost50 (3) :

superbowl9 ; Radical Rat ; Gamma Emerald

Yuki Takeya (2) :

unwnd ; Dragon Of The West

Skybird (1) :

Kop

Not Voting (1) :

Dwlee99

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-10-03 10:06:01), it takes 9 votes to execute someone

@mod - you have Radical Rat listed twice, once on himself and once on Almost50. Is that correct?

nope, i'll correct when doing next VC, thanks for pointing it out

Am feeling better about the Ari vote than I was earlier but still would prefer RR.

I'm confused by this statement ND. You were voting RR at the time, not Ari. But the statement almost sounds like your vote was on Ari. Can you talk about this?

the Ari vote as in the wagon occurring on Ari.
Still prefer RR as in I'm not switching my vote from RR to Ari.

But at the time you made post 811, the Ari wagon was gone. Vote count 1.13 was posted 12 hours before your post and it shows there was no Ari wagon.

If I didn't know better I would consider this a malicious lie.

Spoiler: Votes

VOTE: Ari

i don't really like the alternatives

VOTE: Aristophanes

Fine with going back here.

VOTE: Ari

I'd REALLY rather do A50, but...

VOTE: Aristophanes

VOTE: Ari

Vote:Ari

Arf Arf

I still want ari dead

VOTE: Ari

VOTE: aristophanes
sighhh

[NDMath]

Whoops my internet was being bad

[NDMath]

Subscribing somewhat to Pooky's school of reading, if Skybird is scum that is hugely scummy for NDMath/Tarou, maybe a tad better for Enchant. It also makes me paranoid of the Gamma/Titus area of sky's reads since they're middling

I'm not understanding why scum!skybird does not put scum in her townreads?
And why would scum!skybird put scum!tarou and enchant at the bottom of their readlist when it would have been very easy to slot those two in at null?

[NDMath]

@A50, What's your read on Yuki? You've been voting with them a lot and I'm confused why you sheeped them here to vote Titus.

[NDMath]

@pooky, when you get to your list thing can you also elaborate on most of your reads? They're very different from those of most of this game (perhaps fresh set of eyes, etc).

[NDMath]

@Skybird, is your scumread on me for similar reasons as MT or is there something else?

[NDMath]

@A50, What's your read on Yuki? You've been voting with them a lot and I'm confused why you sheeped them here to vote Titus.

I am NOT sheeping anyone today (except the 2mastinas IF they show up). I saw yours as the leading wagon, and Titus was the runner up, so I made a choice based on my reads on both slots.

Now as for my read on Yuki, it's a very weak Town lean. Like very very weak. Just above Null by less than an inch

Okay, that is making more sense.

Subscribing somewhat to Pooky's school of reading, if Skybird is scum that is hugely scummy for NDMath/Tarou, maybe a tad better for Enchant. It also makes me paranoid of the Gamma/Titus area of sky's reads since they're middling

I'm not understanding why scum!skybird does not put scum in her townreads?
And why would scum!skybird put scum!tarou and enchant at the bottom of their readlist when it would have been very easy to slot those two in at null?

i think i was just saying that scum!sky would be more likely to put town at their #1 kill spot and be more likely to put scum towards the middle.

My main confusion was why Enchant > you/Tarou. I'm kinda past that now though and it doesnt matter unless Sky is scum anyway. What's your read on sky?

Very townie, although I don't agree with a decent portion of her reasonings. skybird has had a lot of good questions and tone/emotion behind posts consistently comes off as town. For example their Enchant thing was weird, but to me it reads as a townie following a weird rulebook over any scum motivation.

i mean are you all planning on sheeping the bottom of pooky's aggregate

We, or at least I, wanted something to be able to form an actual read on him with.
I am disappointed with the result.

[NDMath]

VOTE: Pooky
ISO is half a poor attempt at running a GtH with IioA on results, and most of the rest is fluff.

[NDMath]

what's a GtH?

Yeah Pooky is unreadable he could be scum but if not I heavily lean towards ND cause Pooky is plausible enough

i do kind of echo the sentiment that Pooky hasnt really added anything to the analysis, at least today. The most interesting thing he did was adjust his reads in order to counter scum!Skybird

Gun to Head is where you force everyone to call a small number of players scum and everyone else town, which is fundamentally very similar to what pooky did. It's followed up with an analysis of what the results, not just a list.
I think town!pooky would be more readable than he is right now.

VOTE: Pooky
ISO is half a poor attempt at running a GtH with IioA on results, and most of the rest is fluff.

I'd forget everything I said all game and vote YOU for this one.

Idk, I guess I'm just frustrated at this point. I also don't understand what the townreads on him are for.

[NDMath]

Ebwop: an analysis of what the results mean

[NDMath]

r u really giving me shit for not analyzing a survey that half the fucking game didnt even bother to fill out

When you put it that way you have a point.
-

I am a 'Purely Cleric'.
Each night I investigate if a player can use dark magic, defined as magic involving the dead, curses, or controlled by antitown.
N1 I checked Taroumaru because they seemed to be a universal nullread and got that they couldn't.

[NDMath]

i mean that sounds moderately believable i guedss

I don't really know how this game works. Would be willing to switch to Tarou if that claim is particularly good

did you submit the words "Purely Cleric"? I assume I'm allowed to ask why, if so. Reason being is i assume scum have fakeclaims in a setup like this

My submission was a normal role with no resemblance to "Purely Cleric".

Is that like, a cop check? Pretty handy if so

Probably closer to gunsmith.

I assumed it only worked on magic users

so it could target a necromancer townie for a false guilty, or a non-magic scum for a false inno

pedit: So if someone submitted, like "Battle Medic" the AI could mutate it to "Purely Cleric" and hand it to someone else randomly? Is that how this works?

How are the actual role abilities themselves determined? Is there any point to me trying to game this?

Ari's roleclaim would be a false guilty for me, and in that regard made me believe it more but that may be flawed reasoning.

To the pedit, the mod's clarifications on how the setup worked weren't useful to me, so I have no idea.

[NDMath]

r u really giving me shit for not analyzing a survey that half the fucking game didnt even bother to fill out

When you put it that way you have a point.
-

I am a 'Purely Cleric'.
Each night I investigate if a player can use dark magic, defined as magic involving the dead, curses, or controlled by antitown.
N1 I checked Taroumaru because they seemed to be a universal nullread and got that they couldn't.

I have a slight problem with this as I slightly conflict but with the two nerfs I have, I can't be sure I CC directly.

I'm not sure what you mean by conflict exactly. Your role implies NDMath's is a lie somehow? I assume by being too similar. but why would the mod give scum a fakeclaim that doesnt work

Yes, too similar. It's a gray area because of nerfs existing. There could be scum who don't use magic that bypass NDMath. People can be framed with mine once I get going.

I don't really know if they're incompatible but it makes me pause.

I'm assuming it's more specific than just role-investigative because between Dwlee's universal miller and Mega's can't be investigated we obviously have more than one role-investigative. I'm intrigued to what exactly you mean but waiting for it is probably best.

I think NDMath has a decent chance flipping scum despite the claim

He seems so nonchalant about everything idk

Been here done that, am yet to figure out how to consistently play better.


From MT's list (since I don't think it's very feasible to eliminate outside of it today):
I'm opposed to tarou lim because killing my inno just seems wrong.
I don't think Ari or Titus lims make sense as lims today.
Of Yuki and Enchant I prefer Yuki because I think Enchant has been alright today, whereas Yuki didn't leave much impression on me day1 and has a poor day2.
VOTE: Yuki

[NDMath]

I'm not seeing any reason for Tarou to not use their ability today. Since it pretty much would confirm them town and that's a big benefit right now.

If NDMath is telling the truth, then I can still easily see that being a scum PR, particularly if we are indeed playing multiball. It isn't useful to us as Town, because Town can potentially use dark magic, and scum can potentially not, but if there are two scumteams, one magic and one not, and you're on the non-magical team... A positive result would be either a powerful Town PR, or a member of the other scumteam, which would be worth killing/eliminating either way.

VOTE: NDMath

Assumption: if we are indeed playing multiball
Fallacy: isn't useful to us as town
Assumption: one magic and one not
Assumption: powerful town PR

I havent seen a single good reason to refute the "NDMath's claim doesnt help him cause prolly multiball so let's look at the rest of his play oh it's scummy lets lim there then" mindset

ND's claim is the only saving grace he has in my mind

I'm not sure what type of refution you're looking for?

[NDMath]

My targets were Mega/RR and Dwlee/Gamma btw.
Game plan was to get someone in the first group hung somehow and then fake a guilty on gamma.
Then MT replaced in and kinda crushed my motivation with them being the loudest voice and townreading everyone I was trying to kill well also pushing me.

I claimed an inno on Tarou since I knew I was planning to fake guilty gamma later and I was trying to shrink the poe, as well as get town cred. I also thought, "maybe the scum team won't have any magic users, realise I'm lying, and then not try to kill me", but the scumteam was entirely magic users lol.