Not Quite Normal Multiball II (Game Over)

[Flavor Leaf]

Catboi had the scummiest vote out of everyone too, so i'm happy to force this hand.

[Flavor Leaf]

Get your sweet towncred while it’s hot

lol, even if they're scum, they arent getting town cred.

[Flavor Leaf]

But Catboi would be way more dangerous than Bnuuy.

Limming people day 1 because they're more dangerous as scum is a great way to throw games. As it is I've been pushed on more or less nonsense.

You're minimizing Norwegian's reasons for voting you.

[Flavor Leaf]

when I joined this game I didn't want any drama to happen, now it has and I'm feeling down
if y'all want to vote me out then be my guest tbh but that's at least why I haven't been engaged recently
I'll add that cassowary doesn't really feel like she did when I saw her as scum before so that's probably a good sign

Aww, this is town.

Bnuuy, I think you should just claim.

[Flavor Leaf]

We got to 8 votes on Bnuuy so fast.

[Flavor Leaf]

Bnuuy could be the Malefactor.

[Flavor Leaf]

when I joined this game I didn't want any drama to happen, now it has and I'm feeling down
if y'all want to vote me out then be my guest tbh but that's at least why I haven't been engaged recently
I'll add that cassowary doesn't really feel like she did when I saw her as scum before so that's probably a good sign

This wagon formed in 5 seconds, how come it is the reason you haven't been engaged recently?

ohhhh, the TB drama.

They were actively popping in and out during that time yesterday too, I remember speaking with Bnuuy and they asked why I was town reading them, but then I realized I was mixing Bnuuy and Butterchurn's posts in my memory, so I kind of dropped Bnuuy as a town read at the time.

[Flavor Leaf]

But Catboi would be way more dangerous than Bnuuy.

Limming people day 1 because they're more dangerous as scum is a great way to throw games. As it is I've been pushed on more or less nonsense.

You're minimizing Norwegian's reasons for voting you.

Norwee hasn't had reasons for voting me. Except for not liking my suggestion he could be scum, but he was pushing me well before that without explanation.


And to be honest, I didn't really want to bring this up in-game but I kind of think he has a grudge against me or something. Don't get it, I don't have anything against him.

Okay, Norwegian has reasons for voting you, even if they weren't specifically said, you can see it in the way they post.

You also keep minimizing them.

[Flavor Leaf]

Bnuuy was here yesterday posting and popping in during the TB drama, I believe they're being genuine right now because of that.

[Flavor Leaf]

Norwegian and I in the same game is proof they don't carry grudges, tbh

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Catboi

Bnuuy wagon is boring.

[Flavor Leaf]

Bnuuy wagon can’t be boring yet, we didn’t get to 10 votes

thats why it got boring. Bnuuy came in here and town'd it up. If it got 10 votes faster, it'd been exciting.

I was in on the excitement for a minute, but we expected it to moon, and we only got to the stars, still fun.

[Flavor Leaf]

Bnuuy wagon can’t be boring yet, we didn’t get to 10 votes

I also have to get back to Catboi to not let it fully dissipate. It's becoming more and more clear we're not ending this day on Bnuuy.

[Flavor Leaf]

Bnuuy came in here and town'd it up.

Gameshow buzzer noise thingy again

Means nothing to me on Day 1.

Catboi is scum whether you like it or not.

[Flavor Leaf]

Bnuuy came in here and town'd it up.

Gameshow buzzer noise thingy again

Means nothing to me on Day 1.

Catboi is scum whether you like it or not.

We can keep making noises at each other but I think we both know deep down that neither is selling the other on changing their mind today

Maybe post flips depending on how they shake out, but we’re mostly just dancing to dance, right FL?

I'm not dancing.

You keep trying to get me on the floor is all, and I might tap my foot to the beat, but I aint dancing.

[Flavor Leaf]

Bnuuy's over.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Menalque - the more you do this the more it makes me feel Catboi is scum and you're pocketed.

[Flavor Leaf]

I won't have to unrail it.

It's gonna happen by itself.

[Flavor Leaf]

And Catboi won't go up against me, and STD has cold feet.

[Flavor Leaf]

Doubtful

You’re trying very hard to unrail it as it stands, up to and including your old vote-then-unvote trick which I have seen before, even if others may not have

I stated that was a main reason for me doing it, but I will say, I was on board to power fade them if it got to that point right there. Then they started posting, and their reason for the drama and cowering away makes sense to me. They were actively popping up yesterday with TB, I even talked to them a little bit directly yesterday.

Also, Catboi's vote onto Bnuuy was scummy in itself.

[Flavor Leaf]

So either catboi or wallflower is the correct elim for today.

Am I gonna have to go back to using the big red “X”s instead of saying buzzer noise

yo, you're so pocketed.

[Flavor Leaf]

Interested in Catboi's take on Nashville considering that's one of their other big defenders.

[Flavor Leaf]

Catboi Cover Crew:

Menalque
Butterchurn
Nashville

i feel like there was one more....

[Flavor Leaf]

Interested in Catboi's take on Nashville considering that's one of their other big defenders.

Titus felt off but Mala had more energy than I'd expect from her as scum, haven't seen any of their more recent posts (at work and tabbing in and out).

Mala's a former DC, why do you think she can't adapt to that? feel free to answer later, ofc.

[Flavor Leaf]

just voting someone because they "could" be scum to spark discussion?

this is totally fine to do on Day 1.

I've been trying to stay out of Norwee vs Catboi, but my main thing right now is I believe Catboi's taking advantage of Norwegian having a gut scum read on Catboi, and Norwegian can't explain it because it's a gut read.

Norwegian clearly brought up they'd be willing to vote Catboi earlier after I did, then did, which I felt was pretty natural and automatically showed that Norwegian had a least some suspicion on Catboi, and Catboi keeps minimizing Norwegian's responses and grabbing things like that, and pinpointing them.

[Flavor Leaf]

Catboi Cover Crew:

Menalque
Butterchurn
Nashville

i feel like there was one more....

You are scum reading them?

Nah, I'd actually say the majority of them are town, or at least not aligned with Cat, but I don't think all of them are town.

One is probably a Catboi partner, but I do need to find the fourth one that I'm forgetting.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don't find that bnuuy's latest posts are out of the range of what I would expect them to do if they were scum here. The wagon feels like it fell apart a little quickly. Maybe just because I was raised in the mafia of an earlier time, but I tend to have more inertia than is typical on this site these days. It takes me longer to turn towards scumreading or voting someone, and once I do, it takes me longer to turn away. These sorts of speed wagons rising up and falling away are not really something that's familiar to me. It feels closer to chat mafia at times. Which is not always a bad thing, but it may mean that I should be relying a bit more on gut reads. I agree with Menalque, though, that there's no point in wagoning for pressure if the pressure drops away at the slightest hint of a towny response. This makes me feel like some of the people riding the wave of the wagon didn't genuinely want it to go through, and were just waiting for an excuse to jump back off.

I think the wagon was super scummy. Makes bnuuy lock town and catboi or wallflower likely scum.

I think Menalque just lives in Catboi's pocket, and did what he could to get pressure off of catboi. I think Menalque jumped in by themselves, for the most part.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don't find that bnuuy's latest posts are out of the range of what I would expect them to do if they were scum here. The wagon feels like it fell apart a little quickly. Maybe just because I was raised in the mafia of an earlier time, but I tend to have more inertia than is typical on this site these days. It takes me longer to turn towards scumreading or voting someone, and once I do, it takes me longer to turn away. These sorts of speed wagons rising up and falling away are not really something that's familiar to me. It feels closer to chat mafia at times. Which is not always a bad thing, but it may mean that I should be relying a bit more on gut reads. I agree with Menalque, though, that there's no point in wagoning for pressure if the pressure drops away at the slightest hint of a towny response. This makes me feel like some of the people riding the wave of the wagon didn't genuinely want it to go through, and were just waiting for an excuse to jump back off.

I think the wagon was super scummy. Makes bnuuy lock town and catboi or wallflower likely scum.

I think Menalque just lives in Catboi's pocket, and did what he could to get pressure off of catboi. I think Menalque jumped in by themselves, for the most part.

Menalque's see my towngame and my scumgame, and this isn't my scumgame.

how many times has he caught scum you?

[Flavor Leaf]

how many times has he town read scum you?

[Flavor Leaf]

Spoiler:

Why are people complaining about the number of pages (and also complaining about people complaining about the number of pages) and not the fact that there seems to be a number of posts dedicated to arguing what “mafia miller” means?

Does it get any better?

I have to say I did not expect anyone to answer my question in good faith. Y’all are the best. <3

Now I’m up to the BP stuff and it seems like we’re still talking about it but I’m probably going to be with Menalque on this one.

That was a different page

I keep trying to read through the last 10 or so pages but right now my eyes glaze over and I keep forgetting what it is I'm even doing (I am quite tired rn!!) I do have some thoughts, such as being okay with the Malcolm wagon, but also that Malcolm's response to it will be telling. I also agree with catboi re: the MonkeyMan wagon whilst also remaining suspicious of catboi (yes, I cannot seem to just let it go) so that's probably going to need some sorting out at some point, but right right now that's just too complex a thought so it will just be staying there as mafia soup in my mind.

I think Malcolm is town

do you actually know that or is this just a hypothetical of if you told me that?

The first.

okay second question: is this like

knowing

knowledge, or "I really don't think it sounds like koba" knowledge?

I think Malcolm is town

yeah, malc is old news, you should hop on the hot new bnuuy wagon!

I was indeed a bit disappointed when I caught up and realised that my opinion was not that ~different~ anymore.

I still think catboi is scum though. I have a theory regarding their play that I want to sit a bit on before talking about because I need more of a sample size, but it reassures me that Tracer appears to be thinking similarly.

VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

bad feeling bad feeling!

Can you elaborate

gut read, but I have nothing to trust except my gut this game

why is that specific to this game?

my scum list currently is:

Catboi
Mena
Flavor Leaf

I had 3 other scumreads but I forgot them because shit for memory

probably means they weren't worth remembering

I like those three though. Catboi is the only real scumread for me but Mena and FL are explicitly not-townreads.

I would say Wallflower’s last comment is scummier than TB, though, for the piggyback adding momentum to a townie.

If either of them were scum, I’d base it more on luck than TB actually catching them, though

What if I'm the townie and Tracer is just sheeping me, huh?

but Mena and FL are explicitly not-townreads.

oh, cool, could you expand pls?

What is there to expand on? I don't think anything you've done so far is particularly town-indicative. Do you disagree?

saying that papa leaf is not good at scum is just

sort of baffling

this post is odd given the not-so-serious manner of Tracer's post

but Mena and FL are explicitly not-townreads.

oh, cool, could you expand pls?

What is there to expand on? I don't think anything you've done so far is particularly town-indicative. Do you disagree?

I mean, a bit, given that you and I have never played before

I think I'm being fairly pro-active about pushing the game forward so far having led/banded together support for not one but two wagons, and taken a hand in steering it away from boring-as-shit mechtalk

plus people who have never played with me before tend to townlean me at least when I'm being mostly clear about why I think what I think and not deliberately and arse-ily evasive so it was kinda weird to see you call me out as an "explicit non-townread"

That sort of stuff all seems like things you would do as scum in an effort to be read as town though?

I do want to make clear that even though I don't townread you, I have enjoyed your posts and I agree that it feels like you have had a positive impact on the gamestate. But I'm not really sure that you would play differently as scum.

and he should've jumped you for it

but he didn't

so probly scum together

Do you think Menalque's posting re: you having a problem with him was +town?

I agree that Catboi's play has been very ~off~, but I'm not as sure that they're scum together.

Flavor Leaf is more interested in talking about how he's scum!god than actually catching scum in this game.

Therefore

Flavor Leaf is scum

I don't think this is alignment-indicative tbh

lol

I am not sure on Tracer's alignment here, but a few of us were in a Micro Normal where I know at least in my case I let a negative perception of Tracer wrongly influence a scumread there.

I am seeing some similarities in read leaps and responses here which make me hesitant to see Tracer as scum, especially since there are not enough people here who played the micro game for playing in the same way to be worth it.

PEdit: I've changed my mind. I have a cautious townread on Tracer.

I can't wait for Town Paragon Flavor Leaf to show up on Day 4 with the solution

Day 3?

I think you’re all good as town and as scum.

Meanwhile I have a 0% win rate on this site and I think you should sheep me on catboi

Okay, this is clearly personal, and regardless of your alignment, I think you should stop.

I pushed mena/catboi as a team and voted catboi

mena's been trying to make this shit personal for ???? reasons

I've been trying to get him to explain his townread of catboi

he continues not to.

so like lol sure

keep pretending we're the same

we're not.

I think if you come back to the thread later and read your own posts with a level head you will see that you were the one taking shots at people and making things personal and generally being antagonistic. But you probably already know that, and this was probably intentional to cause chaos and rile things up, so it probably doesn't matter what I say anyway.

I think it’s a tempting idea to think that someone is intentionally causing chaos like this, but I have wrongly thought this about Tracer before.

well that was a fun series of posts to catch up on

I don't really see the case on Malcolm as scum, I think he looks pretty townie to me for now.

No real opinion on any of these meta reads, these do nothing for me, I know none of you. I'm sure you're all very cool and good at mafia. However I do think looking over Flavor Leaf's iso, a lot of his posting has been kind of reactive and/or meta discussion, which is pinging me a little bit.

I kind of see the point on monkeyman that he's acting

weird

but not necessarily scummy. Not sure he's my top suspicion at the moment.

pedit: originally I moved my vote to flavor leaf here but then he made a couple nice posts with detailed reasoning and now I'm conflicted again.

I'm not really sure I see the case on catboi as scum, to be honest. I suppose it's possible but

nothing about their posts is really particularly sticking out to me.

Honestly, you'll have to forgive me for being a bit all-over-the-place at the moment, this is the first time I've played a multiball game

or

a hydra game, so it's a bit tricky to read people in ways I'm used to and it's kind of a lot to deal with, haha. I'm sure I'll get the hang of it with time though.

One game town with the same exact role, two games I played poorly as mafia, and one

fantastic

role madness game as a serial killer.

Just to be clear, you're claiming you've rolled vanilla townie in this game?

And herein lies one of the issues

Does it look like this person actually cares about trying to solve the game? half her poosts are throwaway filler responses to other people, she's just riding off other people's reads, there's no evidence to show she has any thoughts on the game that are her own.

Hmm.
This kinda makes me townread catboi.

this is one of the posts I scum read the most. They went after WallFlower because it was the best one on their wagon to make a case against.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don't find that bnuuy's latest posts are out of the range of what I would expect them to do if they were scum here. The wagon feels like it fell apart a little quickly. Maybe just because I was raised in the mafia of an earlier time, but I tend to have more inertia than is typical on this site these days. It takes me longer to turn towards scumreading or voting someone, and once I do, it takes me longer to turn away. These sorts of speed wagons rising up and falling away are not really something that's familiar to me. It feels closer to chat mafia at times. Which is not always a bad thing, but it may mean that I should be relying a bit more on gut reads. I agree with Menalque, though, that there's no point in wagoning for pressure if the pressure drops away at the slightest hint of a towny response. This makes me feel like some of the people riding the wave of the wagon didn't genuinely want it to go through, and were just waiting for an excuse to jump back off.

I think the wagon was super scummy. Makes bnuuy lock town and catboi or wallflower likely scum.

I think Menalque just lives in Catboi's pocket, and did what he could to get pressure off of catboi. I think Menalque jumped in by themselves, for the most part.

Menalque's see my towngame and my scumgame, and this isn't my scumgame.

how many times has he caught scum you?

Like you wouldn't say that as scum.

im more calling out the type of meta and assurance in Menalque Catboi's using when they're omitting other aspects to go in their favor.

That line has come directly out of my mouth before as scum who's got a townie in their pocket.

Defense against that? ^ "We're not the same."

sure, doesn't mean that there aren't some general scum defenses, it's about how the tool is used that can be different there.

[Flavor Leaf]

It's possible cat and flower are scum.l

Yeah, I did talk about the potential of a MvW scenario.

[Flavor Leaf]

To expand: I think catboi is scumhunting generally in 1208, using tactics that specifically don't work because this game is multiball. Catboi doesn't seem fully conscious of the fact that scum are trying to scumhunt in this game, and that's consistent with his lack of care to other aspects of the setup. I think this is a really weird mindset for catboi!scum to be in.

i think it's a mindset they're in because they're scum.

Catboi town would be more conscious of it.

Klick, if you're coming from a town perspective here, you're very aware of that tactic and whatnot, correct?

That's the difference here.

Catboi is not coming from that town pov here.

[Flavor Leaf]

I would've been primed to go the distance if he hadn't

re-evaluated

on me

right there.

Implying that Menalque has town read Catboi before, and had to re-evaluate.

So by Catboi's definition, Menalque has town read Catboi early, but reevaluated later in the game specifically, so this is NOT the same thing as Catboi pushing that Menalque has played with and should know both when theyve literally town read scum Catboi in almost this exact situation.

The way Catboi framed it is why Catboi is defending themselves (well, I might add) as scum, and not defending themselves as town.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm leaving now and have a long drive, so I want to say:

Enchant is in this game. Absolutely do not put me or anyone else at E-1 or he will hammer. If someone pushes for votes to get a wagon through it's a scumclaim.

OH MY GOD ENCHANT WE CAN QUICKHAMMER AT E-2

[Flavor Leaf]

Any other hammerers out here?

Make it an E-3?

[Flavor Leaf]

Menalque can take the brunt and blame here if Bnuuy's town.

yeah nope I don't like this

Bunny, I saved your wagon.

You just dont like my ego, and I understand. I get it, that one's on me.

[Flavor Leaf]

@leaf not the case
your entire mindset here doesn't feel like what I'd expect town's mindset to be. Your post about "saving townies" earlier felt sus af because there's a degree of extrinsic motivation to it. You're not doing it because it's the right thing to do, but for some reward. Also, I feel like your focus should be finding scum vs. saving town.

I understand. We have a clash in philosophy.

I disagree.

Day 1 I always find saving town more beneficial, and you can see that I play that way in past games, if meta is your thing.

I have a very different MaFilosophy than most people, I understand, but I have been focused on finding scum as well, and if you look at the way I play the game, it's very gamestate based, and finding these townies are the very reason I can find scum.

I also don't 100% believe all of my town reads to be correct, so by actively stating the town read on them, it lets me the see how the gamestate evolves with that in mind.

[Flavor Leaf]

Menalque can take the brunt and blame here if Bnuuy's town.

yeah nope I don't like this

Bunny, I saved your wagon.

You just dont like my ego, and I understand. I get it, that one's on me.

I actually agree with bnuuy here, I'm not a fan of "if X person flips town we go after Y person" type reasoning since it feels very exploitable by scum

Sure it is, I'm more just nudging at Menalque more than anything.

I've called Menalque town multiple times this game.

[Flavor Leaf]

Noting Catboi's town read on Casso followed by the pressure of Casso onto me for ISO.

[Flavor Leaf]

reasoning since it feels very exploitable by scum

being something that is exploitable as scum does not make it scum, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

sure, but it's not something i dont think isn't capable of scum, it's very possible you're town. im just more noting Catboi's action, not yours.

Because I didnt get that ping from your post, i didnt get the scum ping either.

But i did expect there to be someone to start coming towards me based on ScumCatboi's choice towards me.

So I've been waiting for someone like you, which is why it was important to me to note.

[Flavor Leaf]

so now it's me needing to decide if i think youre town who stumbled onto me, or scum with a purpose.

[Flavor Leaf]

Well Done has majorly fell off.

I wanna see their take on me
That’s one of very few slots that should know who I am already

We have discussed this among ourselves and come to the conclusion that we don't know what you are talking about.

hmm...

[Flavor Leaf]

sure, but it's not something i dont think isn't capable of scum, it's very possible you're town. im just more noting Catboi's action, not yours.

Because I didnt get that ping from your post, i didnt get the scum ping either.

But i did expect there to be someone to start coming towards me based on ScumCatboi's choice towards me.

So I've been waiting for someone like you, which is why it was important to me to note.

Also maybe I'm an idiot (ok, ok. . . I'm definitely an idiot) but I've read this post like 5 times and I can't make sense of what it means. Can you rephrase this in different words?

It's not something you don't think scum isn't capable of => it's something you think scum isn't capable of? or... it's not something you think

only

scum are capable of? or, what? Also what does "it" refer to? Agreeing with bnuuy? What does catboi have to do with this other than having said earlier that a different post of mine looked townie? I'm confused

it's more about Catboi than you, because I expected some interest or pushing towards me by a Catboi partner.

So the fact Catboi town read you, then the small pushing onto me piggybacking on Bnuuy's posts is what gave me pause.

The post itself that Catboi town read you for didnt ping me either way.

If you're town, yes, you just came across this all naturally. if you're scum, you did it with intent.

It's too early for me to tell which is which.

[Flavor Leaf]

Well Done has majorly fell off.

I wanna see their take on me
That’s one of very few slots that should know who I am already

We have discussed this among ourselves and come to the conclusion that we don't know what you are talking about.

hmm...

You're free to explain it for us if you've got something to say

i was half teasing you since you made a hmm post earlier, and half trying to show that i think that is a little bit off by Bnuuy.

[Flavor Leaf]

Never fails for Mastina to call me scum when I’m town.

I don’t believe there’s ever been a time she hasn’t called me scum, except when I was scum against their town.

[Flavor Leaf]

Mastina also trying really hard to make ToogelooScum a thing

The claim means it’s not really worth pushing Mastina today, but there’s some icky stuff there.

[Flavor Leaf]

Tictac I believe voted Catboi with an 'Ahem', meaning something pinged them to get them there.

i wanted my question answered, so a light vote. didn't love the immediate omgus tho.
seems a pettern w him to omgus the most recent push/vote on him actually.
kinda funny since ur push makes him this mastermind.

He never pushed me.

[Flavor Leaf]

he's alrdy slipping that I'm right by saying i'm right by luck rather than skill
if you like actually read his comment and think about what it means lol

For the record I hard-agree with this sentiment on FL being scum for the reasons given, too.

(Also, I realize that there's a

lot

of pages to read and I won't be able to read them all tonight, unfortunately. But, I figure that the pages are commentary-worthy-lite, as in, they won't have much that I need to actually comment on, and even-lighter-changes-in-reads-containing, as in, the content won't affect my reads in any significant way by and large.

I still DO need to read it tho, just in case there's content within which

does

shift my reads. I just can't do it tonight because it's 5 am.)

It’s also interesting you choose to backup the misrep.

I specifically stated “if” he’s right, he’s right by luck, which is something I heard someone else say on site, and just liked (although I think that Might be ongoing, don’t remember where from exactly)


Also! To believe that it was a slip from my perspective requires me to be TMI’ing and thus making Catboi already scum.

Now the only possible way I could know Catboi is scum here is if them and I are partners.

So this “slip” reasonings only works if you believe Catboi and I are scum together, something you actively chose not to bring up.

I could be wrong, but you barely talked about Catboi, but you scum read Toogs and I? 2 people on the Catboi wagon.

[Flavor Leaf]

Scumreading butterchurn is unironically the towniest thing mastina has posted

Why?

Butterchurn is in the Catboi Cover Crew pool where there is 100% at least 1 scum regardless of your alignment.

Mastina also joins that crew for targeting 2 on your wagon in Toogs and I.

[Flavor Leaf]

i wanna join the CCC

Eh, you don’t have a ticket or name tag, but you might be able to sneak in

[Flavor Leaf]

The claim means it’s not really worth pushing Mastina today, but there’s some icky stuff there.

It seems like the claim protects her from people ever wanting to push her, correct? Even past the first Day. In later Days a Beloved Princess death may be even more harmful.

Yeah, if she’s a Scum Beloved Princess, she’d have claimed it.

Can’t say I have a clue on how to deal with that claim, but she is backed up and defended by her claim.

[Flavor Leaf]

Like to me, Mastina’s catch up looks like damage control.

[Flavor Leaf]

damage control for what

Probably a Catboi partner

[Flavor Leaf]

There’s definitely scum in the people that are defending/town reading Catboi. At least 1, even if Catboi ends up being town

[Flavor Leaf]

Another reason I’m leaning a Catboi-Mastina is because Mastina knew I’d respond to that ridiculous slip reasoning, and now my focus is going towards her rather than Catboi which splits the vote if I push further + her claim is defense.

[Flavor Leaf]

Caught up on the past day or so.

I've not read Bnuuy's ISO, and hadn't had too many thoughts on the slot so far, but I don't like how that wagon developed and then faded away again so quickly.

I don't think Menalque was particularly scummy for pushing it. Their belief in the slot being scum was genuine and consistent, as was their initial insistence afterwards.

Not keen on how eagerly Flavor went from viewing the vote as a compromise to being willing to join the wagon, to then backing off again pretty quickly. I think it's perfectly possible they did actually think Bnuuy's response was frustrated townie (I did too) and felt like a continued push there wouldn't be a good idea. But I find their joining the wagon interesting given they criticised Catboi pushing Wallflower on the basis it might be an "easy" elimination/push. Could Flavor's approach here not be seen as quite similar?

By the same token though, I wasn't too keen on Catboi's equal willingness to join the wagon before then backing off again. Felt quite opportunistic and was a useful way to get the heat on them to die down a bit, while perhaps agreeing a bit more with players they'd clashed with a bit.

Mastina's suggestion that Butterchurn is mafia masking as town well was interesting and as someone who's TR'd Butterchurn, I'm aware I can easily be drawn in by level-headed players with a very clean and analytical style because that's generally how I like to approach the game (albeit I don't tend to do it all that well). But until Mastina posts any evidence of this I feel like their accusations are quite vague and not fully-formed enough. I've certainly not seen it so far. I also think Mastina's push could potentially be a clever scum tactic insofar as Butter doesn't necessarily look like the sort of push mafia would make given they won't get eliminated this turn...but there's also inherently nothing wrong with going there either because Butter's not been cleared and if Mastina is scum, it allows them to appear as if they're coming up with independent and original thoughts.

I also think Monkey is very townie at this point. I disagree with plenty they say but I feel like they don't give a shit about how their reads/progressions look in a way that's much more likely to come from town than scum, especially in a larger game where it's technically easier for scum to appear townie by genuinely suspecting other mafia.

@Malcolm - are you referring to my Bnuuy vote?

I did that to get the Bnuuy wagon to stop. Menalque and I had a conversation about that, and I specifically stated that if Norwegian and I were to join the wagon, it would slow down because of the speed it grew.

[Flavor Leaf]

Didn’t mean to quote full thing

[Flavor Leaf]

i mean there's 9 scum you can be like there's definitely scum in any 4 people and probably hit

there are 6 mafiats tops

Original post says 4 on each team + Malefactor.

This is like the 4th time we’ve brought this up.

It’s confirmed 9 scum

[Flavor Leaf]

@Malcolm

Doubtful

You’re trying very hard to unrail it as it stands, up to and including your old vote-then-unvote trick which I have seen before, even if others may not have

Doubtful

You’re trying very hard to unrail it as it stands, up to and including your old vote-then-unvote trick which I have seen before, even if others may not have

I stated that was a main reason for me doing it, but I will say, I was on board to power fade them if it got to that point right there. Then they started posting, and their reason for the drama and cowering away makes sense to me. They were actively popping up yesterday with TB, I even talked to them a little bit directly yesterday.

Also, Catboi's vote onto Bnuuy was scummy in itself.

[Flavor Leaf]

Honestly, if we vote Bnuuy, Norwegian, then the Bnuuy wagon is gonna be seen as being built up super fast.

[Flavor Leaf]

Honestly, if we vote Bnuuy, Norwegian, then the Bnuuy wagon is gonna be seen as being built up super fast.

Cheers for context. I dunno, I found the progression odd and it's not as if Bnuuy was exactly on the verge of going out given the size of the game. But I'm also unsure where you'd have particularly benefited from jumping onto the wagon and then jumping off it quickly if you were scum too.

There’s definitely some scum motivation i could see people pushing, and it’s the same motivation I had as town for it.

The Bnuuy wagon was gonna happen due to Menalques push for it being as strong as they did, it started to grow, and I knew it would distract from the Catboi wagon, so I wanted the Bnuuy wagon to end as fast as possible. If it had gone all the way to the end, I’d probably have let it fade, tbh, but Bnuuy came in like a townie little bunny, and made it alright. Then went back to Catboi

[Flavor Leaf]

@MonkeyMan - who are you scum reading?

[Flavor Leaf]

Right, I remember you saying that now. Getting in the zone where I'm just ready to get to Day 2 and on. Want some flips.

[Flavor Leaf]

Part of me wants to try to go for the Beloved Princess, and then just have a double night before scum get any info, and then just have a double night.

[Flavor Leaf]

but might be biased. I think it's possible Mastina comes from a town perspective, but i think all their scum reads and reasons were super weak, but idk if theyre that weak if scum, but targeting 2 on catboi wagon, then 1 in the catboi cover crew is also heebie jeebie worthy.

[Flavor Leaf]

+ Beloved Princess claim wifom.

[Flavor Leaf]

So that's where I'm at, would prefer Catboi, but will go Mastina.

[Flavor Leaf]

Cassowary has a little scum equity for me too, but I didnt hate when we interacted directly.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm not sure what you're referring to.

[Flavor Leaf]

Anyone else feeling Nashville Dreams? I'll give you a cookie :3

oh yeah, I forgot about them. They're lean scum for me too right now, but eh, lower than the others, and i feel im more likely to be wrong there.

[Flavor Leaf]

Part of me wants to try to go for the Beloved Princess, and then just have a double night before scum get any info, and then just have a double night.

if you're referring to this MonkeyMan, I clearly stated "before scum get any info", so idk if you're implying that was meant for a scum PT when it's clearly not.

[Flavor Leaf]

Part of me wants to try to go for the Beloved Princess, and then just have a double night before scum get any info, and then just have a double night.

Yeah this does not read like something posted for here unless I'm missing something? Why would say in advance you "might" try and claim something?

well, i would say in advance that I might try and claim something, but yeah, not what I was saying here.

Really just in addition to thinking Mastina is a strong candidate for a Catboi partner, the Beloved Princess claim is just something I dont really wanna deal with/think it could be scum motivated.

my cases against scumMastina are that her reasons for scum reading people have no meat on the bone, but said matter of factly, and i think mastina just would have better reasons if she was scum. Not a strong reason especially if it was done by Mastina to position well and defend Catboi indirectly by pushing 2 of the ones on the Catboi wagon/then offering up a butterchurn which can get people from both sides of the Catboi debate onto butterchurn.

[Flavor Leaf]

Yeah, I read that as him saying that Day 1 could actually be the most beneficial time to eliminate a Beloved Princess, because there are the maximum amount of town role actions available. So, I guess the risk is mitigated if she is a town Beloved Princess, and there's also a good chance of her just being scum. I'm not really sure how accurate that is, but I did have a thought along those lines as well.

there's also little to no other claims out there, so scum can't PR snipe well, so it's just mowing down people.

Scum can also choose not to kill because they only to kill 2 times in each 3 phases.

[Flavor Leaf]

Yeah, I read that as him saying that Day 1 could actually be the most beneficial time to eliminate a Beloved Princess, because there are the maximum amount of town role actions available. So, I guess the risk is mitigated if she is a town Beloved Princess, and there's also a good chance of her just being scum. I'm not really sure how accurate that is, but I did have a thought along those lines as well.

there's also little to no other claims out there, so scum can't PR snipe well, so it's just mowing down people.

Scum can also choose not to kill because they only to kill 2 times in each 3 phases.

On this, do we reckon all scum teams kill tonight? I'd initially expect so since it's D1 and the game is still big enough that you can probably eliminate someone as scum and get away with it without people making obvious associatives. But then it obviously gets trickier further down the line once role player are perhaps revealed - if you don't have a kill, you risk them being able to live another day.

i agree. going Mastina, if they are actually town BP, opens up a lot of bloodshed, but it's more of a matter of does the bloodshed matter. scum can hit possible scum anyways. And if Mastina is scum, they're just scum.

The double night is always gonna feel drastic, though, but there's also the possibility that scum kill Mastina if she's on the right track ever, but not looking likely based on her weak reasonings, so either way.

Catboi still my preferred.

[Flavor Leaf]

I would think it would be more beneficial for scum to wait to kill until they know more about the setup, but that's just me.

that's why this is a thing. Because they would essentially be forced to make at least 1 kill because they only get 2 kills in 3 phases.

So I'm assuming scum could kill N2, N3, N4, N5, but not N1, N6.

so there would be blood. And the different scum teams can make different decisions, of course.

And if they wait, it's even better for town in that scenario, because PR's get double actions, so it's dangerous for scum to do that.

This only matters if Mastina is a BP, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

Odds on Mastina's alignment:
Town(70%)
Scum(30%)

I just realized Mastina can't be a jester because the setup is pre-revealed. And while Mastina could be scum I am against eliminating her and find the idea of doing so scummy in general, but not as scummy as the bnuuy wagon.

30% is an insanely strong scum read on Day 1, btw.

[Flavor Leaf]

Yeah, you're right. Normally that'd be an insanely strong scum read, but there's a lot of total scum here, so 37.5% of being scum is the neutral for this game.

[Flavor Leaf]

and neutral scum reading isn't strong at all because it's just gambler's fallacy.

[Flavor Leaf]

9/23 with malefactor

[Flavor Leaf]

It doesn't feel like he is focused on finding and killing scum so much as trying to push narratives today and trying to get people to think about the game in certain ways.

ive already found scum, so dont know what you're talking about.

majority of my play has been pushing Catboi.

[Flavor Leaf]

We think that Flavor Leaf is scum and has taken great efforts to establish narratives this game to control the flow of the game. Setting up strong ideas that it is this person vs that person, or that this other person is pocketing people, that scum are covering for Catboi and that mastina is a good elimination (she's not). They feel like they're talking past us and setting up their own version of events for this game. It doesn't feel like he is focused on finding and killing scum so much as trying to push narratives today and trying to get people to think about the game in certain ways.

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

Also, I do this as town, and scum need to find other scum too, so this doesn't really have much base.

I've been waiting to get pushed for a while.

My thoughts on that are it's very possible that both scum teams thought it was possible that i was scum on the other, so this looks probably like scum who's finally trying to stop any momentum I have going.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Well Done - You wanna act like this is anything different when I know for a fact Dunnstral knows I play this exact way as town. Catboi is doing the same exact thing with the "pushing whoever pushes them" but you chose to ignore it.


Here's where I stand right now.

If you want to act like I haven't given my thoughts on nearly every single slot on the game bar a few, like The Keeper or your slot, it's because I was still needing something more concrete for the both of you.

I would say this is your first major point of action during this.

The fact that it came after my Mastina push and not my Catboi one makes me think there's merit in Mastina/Well Done being on one scum team, then Catboi/Cassowary on the other.

The rest is probably somewhere in my town reads because I don't expect to be correct on Day 1 with all my town reads, i fall in pockets early, and that's okay.

Sword of Ducks
Save The Dragons
Tracer Bullet
MonkeyMan576
Bnuuy

Malcolm
WallFlower
Menalque
Norwegian
Cat Scratch Fever

Toogeloo
MegaZumarill
Enchant
Butterchurn
Tictac
Klick

The Keeper
Well Done
Nashville Dreams

Mastina
cassowary

catboi

[Flavor Leaf]

Keeper should have been in a tier of their own in between those two tiers, i made it pink by accident.

[Flavor Leaf]

Flavor Leaf calls anybody who pushes him scum.

There's also only been like 3 people, and Catboi has done the same thing with Tictac, Wallflower, and Norwegian with their post, as well as jumping on Bnuuy to get themselves free.

[Flavor Leaf]

And I'm not even necessarily calling you scum with confidence, just more acknowledging the baseless push, it's why you're pink.

You said I'm scum reading everyone who's called me scum, correct?

Name those people, Well Done.

[Flavor Leaf]

Flavor Leaf calls anybody who pushes him scum.

I have 2 things for this.

Who other than Mastina and yourself have I done this for?

And do you believe this is something I wouldn't do as town?

[Flavor Leaf]

If this is Lukewarm talking, it's scum who is acting like it's both of their reads, when Dunnstral has played way too many games to use that as a reason for ever scum reading me. This is the main reason I got pinged. The reasoning, not the straight up scum read in itself, because I don't believe that to be genuine.

[Flavor Leaf]

Sword of Ducks
Save The Dragons
Tracer Bullet
MonkeyMan576
Bnuuy

Malcolm
WallFlower
Menalque
Norwegian
Cat Scratch Fever

Toogeloo
MegaZumarill
Enchant
Butterchurn
Tictac
Klick

The Keeper

Well Done
Nashville Dreams

Mastina
cassowary

catboi

Well Done says I'm not looking for scum, but I believe I have the most layered reads out of anyone in this game, and have been looking for scum MORE than the majority of players, frankly because I got way too invested like always.

And even if I were scum, why wouldn't I be looking for scum?

Well Done/Mastina team, Catboi/Cassowarry. Nashville probably town then, and then the rest are somewhere in my town reads.

[Flavor Leaf]

And I'm not even necessarily calling you scum with confidence, just more acknowledging the baseless push, it's why you're pink.

You said I'm scum reading everyone who's called me scum, correct?

Name those people, Well Done.

mastina, Nashville dreams, ourself

Show me where Nashville scum read me.

[Flavor Leaf]

If this is Lukewarm talking, it's scum who is acting like it's both of their reads, when Dunnstral has played way too many games to use that as a reason for ever scum reading me. This is the main reason I got pinged. The reasoning, not the straight up scum read in itself, because I don't believe that to be genuine.

This is untrue.

Disagree

[Flavor Leaf]

Taking out Well Done from the "list of people I've scum read who scum read me" since they likely came in ready to say that, then it's literally just Mastina.

Of course I'm going to fight against people trying to push me, I whole heartedly believe I am correct in ScumCatboi, someone who Well Done is also apparently suspicious of, and has ACTUALLY been doing that same thing of pushing anyone who scum reads them other than me.

I'm probably wrong with my pairings in my reads list due to adrenaline, but yeah.

[Flavor Leaf]

And do you believe this is something I wouldn't do as town?

Yep

You're being manipulative and that makes you more likely to be scum

yeah, I don't believe for an instant this is a Dunnstral take. That's just a playstyle quirk.

And there's a reason it's especially concerning coming from you considering a post you made way back when that you said you probably shouldn't talk about.

[Flavor Leaf]

i think hounding monkeyman over the blurred line of what is 'null' and what is 'needs more info' is nitpicking a little

Incorrect. Separating null from lack of info indicates that there's enough to form coherent thoughts. Yet here Monkey can't give even flimsy reasons why there's null versus lack of info, which suggests it's forced/fabricated.

VOTE: Monkey

This was Nashville's last vote.

Nashville wasn't responding negatively to me at all, if anything I think they were responding positively in the sense that they think I'm caught in a tunnel, and trying to help me get out of it.


Defending Catboi does not equal scum reading.

You are actively twisting the narrative here.

[Flavor Leaf]

And there's a reason it's especially concerning coming from you considering a post you made way back when that you said you probably shouldn't talk about.

I don't believe that this exists.

Hmm, interesting.

Hey, STD. Is it time?

[Flavor Leaf]

And there's a reason it's especially concerning coming from you considering a post you made way back when that you said you probably shouldn't talk about.

I don't believe that this exists.

Hmm, interesting.

Hey, STD. Is it time?

No it isn't time. But this at least directly ties me to a player that would make it so if I'm lying would mean we'd both have to be scum.

We can move past this part now, and back to your baseless pushes.

[Flavor Leaf]

i don't know what post is being referred to

You should now.

[Flavor Leaf]

Meh, I'll just claim it.

STD and I are in a neighborhood together. For reasons, we're not gonna bring this up further.

Well Done already was aware of this possibility since them and I had a moment way earlier in the game.

This is another reason I believe it's higher possibility of Well Done scum here since they're pushing to possibly get me to out more information.

[Flavor Leaf]

There's a total of 3 of us, the third will remain unnamed until later day phases.

[Flavor Leaf]

Part of me wants to try to go for the Beloved Princess, and then just have a double night before scum get any info, and then just have a double night.

I'd 100% support this lol.

Toogeloo personality wanted me to rank them higher on my town list, but I couldn't since content wise, it's not certain at all, but do like them on Catboi, so if they're scum, i dont believe it's with Catboi.

[Flavor Leaf]

I never pushed you to reveal a neighborhood, but you will have to explain what you are talking about with what you actually said

That's the reason you did, if you are scum. I guess I could be wrong, and maybe you just didn't think much of it. But you were actively the one to notice, and it feels like you're using weak reasoning because you wanted to get that out of me to be sure because you were still confused.

I am town. Based on how I've been playing, scum are actively going to try to steer me to either misfade someone or stop momentum. This aint my first time at the rodeo. I'm a magnet, and it's one of the best ways I catch scum by bringing them to push me.

[Flavor Leaf]

Actually, if there's a Mafia Miller, they should claim.

Multiball games generally have semi symmetrical setups, not exact, of course, and if there's a Werewolf Miller claim, then there should be a Miller. If there isn't, I say we power tunnel Well Done.

getting it on the new page so it doesnt get lost at the bottom.

I have been on the look out for the mafia miller claim as well, but wasn't going to say anything until everyone had checked in. Will share thoughts on the implication of no miller claim if no one has claimed it by the time everyone has checked in

This is probably an all scum hood. Sigh.

I have 3 PT's. None of them are the scum ones, and now that I know the randomization of it all, i'm so paranoid of this game

Given the mechanics of the last game, I am surprised that there are 3.

Also curious if this works out as an IC claim for you?

Flavor Leaf, do the hood mechanics make you mod proven not Mafia to 1 group of players, and mod proven not werewolf to another group of players?

Thinking about it while cleaning my kitchen, and I think that I probably should not have asked my prior question. Disregard

lol

Hey Malcom!

Apparently this game also has a lot of hoods. Try not to slip again

Well Done was actively aware of something deeper I was doing here, and now they're digging.

[Flavor Leaf]

i think hounding monkeyman over the blurred line of what is 'null' and what is 'needs more info' is nitpicking a little

Incorrect. Separating null from lack of info indicates that there's enough to form coherent thoughts. Yet here Monkey can't give even flimsy reasons why there's null versus lack of info, which suggests it's forced/fabricated.

VOTE: Monkey

This was Nashville's last vote.

Nashville wasn't responding negatively to me at all, if anything I think they were responding positively in the sense that they think I'm caught in a tunnel, and trying to help me get out of it.


Defending Catboi does not equal scum reading.

You are actively twisting the narrative here.

They did in 1328 and 1330

They aren't calling me scum for it anywhere in those posts.

[Flavor Leaf]

i think hounding monkeyman over the blurred line of what is 'null' and what is 'needs more info' is nitpicking a little

Incorrect. Separating null from lack of info indicates that there's enough to form coherent thoughts. Yet here Monkey can't give even flimsy reasons why there's null versus lack of info, which suggests it's forced/fabricated.

VOTE: Monkey

This was Nashville's last vote.

Nashville wasn't responding negatively to me at all, if anything I think they were responding positively in the sense that they think I'm caught in a tunnel, and trying to help me get out of it.


Defending Catboi does not equal scum reading.

You are actively twisting the narrative here.

They did in 1328 and 1330

They aren't calling me scum for it anywhere in those posts.

I don't see that as negative towards me, that looks like they're trying to break me out of a tunnel, which is something townier by them.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm slightly confused here...players from any alignment can typically be in a neighbourhood no? Well Done could hypothetically read you as scum while also knowing you're in a neighbourhood with someone else, STD or otherwise, unless I've read the rules wrong.

It's probably best we move on from that.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don't see that as negative towards me, that looks like they're trying to break me out of a tunnel, which is something townier by them.

But you said you think they're scum, so which is it?

They could be scum, but if you check my reads list I actively said differently, and they're only in my Pink tier.

Catboi's not even lock lock scum for me, and he's red tier.

I was saying Catboi/Cass and Mastina/Well Done pretty clearly.

And people have been actively trying to get Nashville wagon going, and I've stayed away from it.

[Flavor Leaf]

If I was in a neighborhood, would y'all wanna know, or would it be best to hold off on that for now

Also, Well Done said it was in response to this, when this was already said in the game

They're actively twisting the narrative.

[Flavor Leaf]

And do you believe this is something I wouldn't do as town?

Yep

You're being manipulative and that makes you more likely to be scum

yeah, I don't believe for an instant this is a Dunnstral take. That's just a playstyle quirk.

And there's a reason it's especially concerning coming from you considering a post you made way back when that you said you probably shouldn't talk about.

This post is a lie

It's a lie that Dunnstral and I have been playing in games for years, and he's time and time again seen me manipulate town as town, and still is pushing it as scum?

Where's the lie?

[Flavor Leaf]

Flavor Leaf (1) | Well Done

Wait, didn't Well Done try to use the "Nashville is Voting You" line

[Flavor Leaf]

Well Done is probably scum who thinks I'm the other scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

We assumed you were in a neighborhood in those posts because you heavily implied that you were in a neighborhood. I don't see what the scum narrative is supposed to be in 2002, or how 2013 changes things.

Not my fault you choose not to see it because you don't like it.

[Flavor Leaf]

Acting like I have some overly strong scum read on Nashville.

I feel like I actively stated I wouldn't fade them on Day 1 even.

[Flavor Leaf]

k i don't really think either of you are scum

but i bet we'll spend pages arguing about it

You need to explain if 1977 is FL misinterpreting something or if they are outright lying or trying to fit a square into a round hole or what.

And explain how 2002 and subsequent posts on the topic can come from town

What am I misinterpreting?

Those are MY thoughts. Dunnstral has a huge amount of meta on me, and I don't believe he thought that coming from a town POV. I can see them using that to push me as scum, sure, but it's not like I don't know how Dunnstral plays.

[Flavor Leaf]

Dunnstral will have to come in here and vouch for it, of course, since you're in too deep.

You acting like 2002 doesnt make sense is just a straight up twisting of the narrative.

I feel it makes perfect sense. You also actively timestamped yourself trying to prove that a later post than the one I had already done is what got you, when that's just factually incorrect.

Scum look for those exact softs that I did, that was one of my MAIN reasons for posting like that early was to eventually catch someone out. I didn't think it was ever gonna bite, but you coming in right after I pushed Mastina is the kicker.

You were waiting to do that, you had the ammunition, you thought, but your pushes are just built upon incorrect.

The majority of players in this game damn well know I'm a manipulative controlling player by personality, and Dunnstral, someone who's played many games with me over the years, is going to use that of all the things they likely could use to try and push me? No, I believe Lukewarm pushed that thinking it was a good reason, using Dunnstral aggreeance to make it seem better. Dunnstral now will have to come in here acting like he agrees because Well Done is caught.

VOTE: Well Done

I convinced myself you're scummier than Catboi is now, but eh, thats probably because Catboi hasn't been posting much today.

[Flavor Leaf]

Acting like I have some overly strong scum read on Nashville.

I'm not actually.

I said you were scumreading people who scumread you and provided evidence to support my argument

All this stuff about the strength of your scumread is your own argument

nashville isn't scum reading me, so it's not evidence that supports you at all.

Mastina's the only one that's been the case for other than now you.

Your entire case is fabricated.

I believe you are coming after me for going after Mastina, and considering that.

[Flavor Leaf]

Flavor Leaf calls anybody who pushes him scum.

So you, Dunnstral, used this as a reasoning to push me?

Without realizing that this has only happened once this game, with Mastina, a player that essentially calls me scum in any game we've played together besides when I actually was scum that one time, and out of everything, you were going with this + controlling/manipulative?

[Flavor Leaf]

Without realizing that this has only happened once this game,

You immediately swapped your read on us to scum as well. I already discussed Nashville dreams, too.

Swapped my read?

[Flavor Leaf]

I don't believe I ever was town reading you? Maybe for the section, but it's been days since then.

[Flavor Leaf]

Actually, if there's a Mafia Miller, they should claim.

Multiball games generally have semi symmetrical setups, not exact, of course, and if there's a Werewolf Miller claim, then there should be a Miller. If there isn't, I say we power tunnel Well Done.

i even said this earlier.

[Flavor Leaf]

My power tunnel on Well Done if no Miller claim is gone now, btw.

Would be down to do a Not Miller/Miller type thing in the case there is a Scum Miller it forces them to claim it or chance getting rolecop guiltied.

Not Miller, obvi.

but I did say this right after finding out it was random.

[Flavor Leaf]

Menalque being underestimated just gives them the power to come back harder, and being presented at the mountain top is only good for ego, and it sucks for actually playing the game.

When you can't hear the good, you can't hear the bad. best way to play it.

I think Bnuuy, Sword, and Wallflower are all townie. TB is townie. Menalque is townie.

Wallflower/Menalque are my towniest reads, I would say right now.

Wallflower turned me from my initial call out on them real fast.

this was my town list from a while back.
I don't see Well Done anywhere on here, so no clue what they're saying by "Swapped my read" on them.

[Flavor Leaf]

Here's the thing, they're right in the sense I'm controlling, but I feel it's clearly in the sense that I'm protecting my town reads. I'm not being 'manipulative' because frankly, I feel like I'm wearing all my thoughts and emotions right on my sleeves.

[Flavor Leaf]

I haven't even been telling people where to vote all game, just been saying my thoughts on gamestate/my reads/things that ping me when they come up.

[Flavor Leaf]

it's just how they play and while they will sometimes miss it can be helpful if they are town.

I really just want you to see the difference in my town game late into the game

I'm much stronger town late into the game. But I do have a tendency to get warlocked by scum.

But like Knuckles in Sonic 3 and Knuckles, i'll eventually punch the Eggman.

[Flavor Leaf]

But I do have a tendency to get warlocked by scum.

*early game^

[Flavor Leaf]

Flavor is unlikely to be eliminated D1 I'd say and it very much puts Well Done in the spotlight.

I don't think they pushed me with the intent to fade me, not that they wouldnt if it was possible.

I feel like at the least I've hit a scum or two, but what really makes me ping with Well Done is that this happened after I had settled a bit with Catboi, and started looking into Mastina as an option.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm now in a situation where if Mastina-Catboi-Well Done were to all push me, then it would have some merit, so that's another thing that sprang to my mind with Well Done. Like they saw an opportunity in the gamestate to turn momentum onto me.

[Flavor Leaf]

it's just how they play and while they will sometimes miss it can be helpful if they are town.

I really just want you to see the difference in my town game late into the game

I'm much stronger town late into the game. But I do have a tendency to get warlocked by scum.

But like Knuckles in Sonic 3 and Knuckles, i'll eventually punch the Eggman.

As I say I'm far from fully convinced you are town, it's just "Flavor is manipulating the gamestate" feels like a bit of a weak read from Well Done insofar as it's not just what you do, but what I'd argue any player who is posting more than everyone else ends up doing to some degree presuming they are posting actual content. The goal of mafia is to some degree manipulation in that even town spend their time trying to get other people to agree with them on something they generally inherently can't be certain about.

I don't need you to town read me Day 1. I need you to town read me later in the game if you are town.


I was more talking in general, i dont expect to make it that late into this game.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm now in a situation where if Mastina-Catboi-Well Done were to all push me, then it would have some merit, so that's another thing that sprang to my mind with Well Done. Like they saw an opportunity in the gamestate to turn momentum onto me.

Bnuuy, Cassowary would likely also join, then probably some stragglers.

This is something I do to see where the scum are around me.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Catboi

I'm going to go back here.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Well done

I'm so salty right now....

[Flavor Leaf]

Him pre-positioning that certain players could not be eliminated day 1, preemtively commenting a couple times that catboi can

Misrep.

I've actively stated I don't believe that Catboi is likely to be faded.

In fact, I've said multiple times that he gets run up, claims a PR, and relieves pressure.

[Flavor Leaf]

And then, last night, I read his scum guide. And that is when it clicked that he was focused on setting up "GameFics" as he called it in his guide. That that was his focus OVER being focused on scum hunting. I sent my thoughts to Dunn, and he agreed, and then he has been the one pushing it because I have not been on.

This one's not a bad reasoning.

But like, it's multiball, this just isn't the case for scum in Multiball.

And I have actively been scum hunting, you just are choosing to act like I haven't been.

[Flavor Leaf]

Like, they went from making post 911 saying they were not going to hyperpost, to becoming the number 1 top poster in the thread over the course of 12 hours.

In regards to this, yeah I really wanted to lurk.

Just not possible for me if I'm playing a game nowadays.

[Flavor Leaf]

2077 is a fine post, but it's just not really a case to why I'm scum, it's just an analysis on how I'm playing, and then a link to why.

The Catboi Cover Crew is the exact same thing I did in my last finished town game that I called the Froggy Protection Posse, in which I was correct with STD being scum within the Froggy Protection Posse.

Change a few words, but take the same situations, and it's a Flavor Town case.

[Flavor Leaf]

And then, last night, I read his scum guide. And that is when it clicked that he was focused on setting up "GameFics" as he called it in his guide. That that was his focus OVER being focused on scum hunting. I sent my thoughts to Dunn, and he agreed, and then he has been the one pushing it because I have not been on.

This is the best reasoning I see, besides the bad "over focusing on scum hunting" line, but that looks just to try to push down the work I've actively been putting in doing on developing my reads in addition to just not being true in multiball.

[Flavor Leaf]

viewtopic.php?p=13309361#p13309361

Here's a post to me on my alt April Ludgate that is my last finished town game, only finished town game in a year and a half.

Pretty much proves that it's a playstyle.

Yes, I repeat stuff.

Yes, I use gamestate analysis hunting over direct scum casing.

Yes, I create buzz lines, such as my "LAST NIGHT TOMORROW!!!!" large reads list.

It's how I play. I'm essentially all Charisma and Gamestate, and like to use catchphrases.

I'm an actor/writer, and I play the game like an actor/writer.

[Flavor Leaf]

Your last town game was a year and a half ago on an alt, but earlier you argued that Dunnstral should "know" you are town based on meta. Huh.

last town game before that game, dont misrep.

[Flavor Leaf]

Your last town game was a year and a half ago on an alt, but earlier you argued that Dunnstral should "know" you are town based on meta. Huh.

this proves you chose to discredit before even looking at the post, because that was March 26th.

Dunnstral has been playing here for years, and the case was controlling game and being manipulative?

That's just describing me as a person.

[Flavor Leaf]

Your case just feels like fluff because you need to find reasons to push me.

[Flavor Leaf]

Your case just feels like fluff because you need to find reasons to push me.

This is true even if you truly do believe I am scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

Your last town game was a year and a half ago on an alt, but earlier you argued that Dunnstral should "know" you are town based on meta. Huh.

last town game before that game, dont misrep.

I wasn't in "that game"

Nobody said you were.

You've been in plenty of games with me, Dunnstral, idk why you're trying to act like this is some first time we've played together.

That game link was specifically for the Catboi Cover Crew comment because in that game I stated Froggy Protection Posse.

You are actively trying to twist things.

[Flavor Leaf]

Look, I'm not saying Dunnstral's some savant at reading me by any means, but I feel like there's definitely double digits amount of games played, and controlling gamestate/manipulative, catch phrasing repeating things is just come on level of that I'm starting to think there's no way scum would be this dense about it.

[Flavor Leaf]

My main reason for the turn on Well Done was I just really don't believe someone could play in 10+ games with me over the years, and not know that about my personality.

Maybe it's just me being self-centered or what have you, but even if I am I still think that's a stretch.

That 10+ games is me being conservative about it.

[Flavor Leaf]

Do you ever think that being self centered might be anti-productive to town if you are town, Flavor Leaf?

Yes and no. There's definitely pros and cons.

[Flavor Leaf]

And just because I talk myself up doesn't mean I'm not gonna talk other people up as well.

I'm a big fan of self admiration and positive thinking about oneself.

[Flavor Leaf]

For instance, you have good gut scum reads.

Titus has one of the best analytical and out of the box solving out there.

Catboi's incredibly calm and smooth.

Enchant's trolly, but genuine, and late game has the ability to get super obv townie.

Malcolm's ability level of analysis on scenarios are wild.

Mastina's perfected her playstyle to an extreme with a very powerful MaFilosophy.

Menalque's ability to defend and rally momentum against a main wagon while coming across as town is great. Hard to 1v1.

Norwegian's one of the hardest players I've ever had to 1v1.


I could say things about personality, of course, but we'd be here all day.

[Flavor Leaf]

I gotta look into The Keeper/Cass a little more.

[Flavor Leaf]

Yeah, past pushing you at this point, Well Done.

[Flavor Leaf]

I was gonna call out your linking of like the only 4-5 games I've played in 2 years, but saw you say it's partially true.

But frankly, I played more games on alts leading up to 2020, but have essentially been playing games with Dunn since like 2016 on and off.

I wasn't even counting those 4, didn't know Dunnstral was in those games, but if Dunnstral was in those in any way, then that's even moreso.

[Flavor Leaf]

well enough to have a good read on their alignment.

this is a misrep.

I believe I said they would know at the very least controlling a gamestate/manipulating/repeating/catchphrase is personality. People know that off of like 1, 2 games let alone the many I've played with Dunn.

I wasn't like hidden on most of my alts, and even if I was, I always outed.

[Flavor Leaf]

Look, I'm not saying Dunnstral's some savant at reading me by any means, but I feel like there's definitely double digits amount of games played, and controlling gamestate/manipulative, catch phrasing repeating things is just come on level of that I'm starting to think there's no way scum would be this dense about it.

Like I said it right here.

You're just misrepping and twisting again, kinda saying the same thing.

[Flavor Leaf]

They don't have a real reason to think that we think that they are in a neighborhood, or that we are fishing for info.

Your opinion, not my opinion.

[Flavor Leaf]

Your bottom part regarding the neighborhood thing is also misguided, because the Klick/Enchant Neighborhood post I never said I was in.

I actively said I was "definitely not in a neighborhood with Klick/Enchant". they were the first 2 that posted after I asked about it, and 163 and 171 only connection is the neighborhood. You put a joke claim connection to 163, which is like, fine, I guess.

But me actively clearing up I wasn't in a neighborhood with those 2, when I specifically said I wasn't early, doesn't just straight up omit the first post I made.

[Flavor Leaf]

You connected 1284 and 171 to 163 like it was the same thing, when that's just not the case.


171 stemmed from 163, but I clearly stated I was definitely not in it.

1284 I'm making sure people knew that if I was in neighborhoods, it was not with Klick/Enchant.

You are pushing like I was taking back not being in the hood at all, and that's just not true at all.

Not even something I can fake at this point, unless you think STD/Myself are both scum on the same side, and not even on the same page reads wise, but playing this up.

I specifically wanted it known that there's a 3rd member in there so people know it can later be confirmed.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm starting to get the feeling Well Done's just wrong town who thinks they found something because the hydra heads had a shared feeling, and didn't know what else to do right now.

[Flavor Leaf]

I wasn't pushing Dunnstral for having a scum read on me, it was the reasoning.

I understand why people would scum read me as town, that's fine.

[Flavor Leaf]

April Ludgate
Pretentious
Rick Dalton
Morality
Boonskiies
Comical

are my other alts you can look at if you eventually do a deep dive to look for how many games I've played with Dunn, Well Done.

[Flavor Leaf]

See, everything you say in that post is true, I'm just doing it as town, though.

I do 1937 in essentially every single game I'm town in, so I just don't know what to tell ya

[Flavor Leaf]

And based on that thought, us suspecting him looks like scum turning on him.

Another twisting of the narrative.

I've stated multiple times it's not the damn turn.

God damn. Read the fucking posts.

You're densely skipping things that make it more convenient for your case to exist when I've said like 5 fucking times I SUSPECTED YOUR FOR THE FUCKING REASON.

Fucking surface level player.

[Flavor Leaf]

And if he is not saying it to sway mena, why is he saying it?

You're sitting here acting like I'm not fully fucking TRYING to sway Mena.

Like that's literally my fucking purpose in posting that shit, too sway Menalque.

Everything you are saying is literally what I'm doing.

Of fucking course I'm going to try to get Menalque to stop defending my scum read and get on board, that's literally how you play the game.


It's not like I wasn't giving my thoughts on reasons on why he should.

I'm not TRICKING him into going on Catboi, I was trying to convince him to because I believe he was pocketed by Catboi.

[Flavor Leaf]

And if he is not saying it to sway mena, why is he saying it?
1) It keeps forcing the catboi vs flavor leaf narrative like before.
2) it discredits Mena's read on catboi

Like, I am actively trying to do that.

I believe his read on Catboi is wrong.

Catboi vs Flavor Leaf is also not a thing.

I'm pushing Catboi. I am not fighting with Catboi.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm very aware Well Done is likely just actively throwing NAI cases out there to annoy me. I'll try to contain myself a bit more.

[Flavor Leaf]

What part of this logic precludes town from thinking that he is scum here? What reason would scum be thinking that he is scum here, but town wouldn't be? It doesn't exist. But, he does not seem to think about that, because he is not trying to sort us here, his immediate reaction is to discredit a push. He started with the idea to call us scum for pushing him, then came up with a reason - that scum would think he was scum.

this is why Well Done's entire push is garbage because they keep insisting I was pushing them for that reason when I've stated multiple times it wasn't.

It just doesn't fit as cleanly for them otherwise.

[Flavor Leaf]

And based on that thought, us suspecting him looks like scum turning on him.

Another twisting of the narrative.

I've stated multiple times it's not the damn turn.

God damn. Read the fucking posts.

You're densely skipping things that make it more convenient for your case to exist when I've said like 5 fucking times I SUSPECTED YOUR FOR THE FUCKING REASON.

Fucking surface level player.

I wasn't pushing Dunnstral for having a scum read on me, it was the reasoning.

I understand why people would scum read me as town, that's fine.

Look, I'm not saying Dunnstral's some savant at reading me by any means, but I feel like there's definitely double digits amount of games played, and controlling gamestate/manipulative, catch phrasing repeating things is just come on level of that I'm starting to think there's no way scum would be this dense about it.

Like I said it right here.

You're just misrepping and twisting again, kinda saying the same thing.

well enough to have a good read on their alignment.

this is a misrep.

I believe I said they would know at the very least controlling a gamestate/manipulating/repeating/catchphrase is personality. People know that off of like 1, 2 games let alone the many I've played with Dunn.

I wasn't like hidden on most of my alts, and even if I was, I always outed.

Look, I'm not saying Dunnstral's some savant at reading me by any means, but I feel like there's definitely double digits amount of games played, and controlling gamestate/manipulative, catch phrasing repeating things is just come on level of that I'm starting to think there's no way scum would be this dense about it.

Your last town game was a year and a half ago on an alt, but earlier you argued that Dunnstral should "know" you are town based on meta. Huh.

this proves you chose to discredit before even looking at the post, because that was March 26th.

Dunnstral has been playing here for years, and the case was controlling game and being manipulative?

That's just describing me as a person.

Here's the thing, they're right in the sense I'm controlling, but I feel it's clearly in the sense that I'm protecting my town reads. I'm not being 'manipulative' because frankly, I feel like I'm wearing all my thoughts and emotions right on my sleeves.

Flavor Leaf calls anybody who pushes him scum.

So you, Dunnstral, used this as a reasoning to push me?

Without realizing that this has only happened once this game, with Mastina, a player that essentially calls me scum in any game we've played together besides when I actually was scum that one time, and out of everything, you were going with this + controlling/manipulative?

Dunnstral will have to come in here and vouch for it, of course, since you're in too deep.

You acting like 2002 doesnt make sense is just a straight up twisting of the narrative.

I feel it makes perfect sense. You also actively timestamped yourself trying to prove that a later post than the one I had already done is what got you, when that's just factually incorrect.

Scum look for those exact softs that I did, that was one of my MAIN reasons for posting like that early was to eventually catch someone out. I didn't think it was ever gonna bite, but you coming in right after I pushed Mastina is the kicker.

You were waiting to do that, you had the ammunition, you thought, but your pushes are just built upon incorrect.

The majority of players in this game damn well know I'm a manipulative controlling player by personality, and Dunnstral, someone who's played many games with me over the years, is going to use that of all the things they likely could use to try and push me? No, I believe Lukewarm pushed that thinking it was a good reason, using Dunnstral aggreeance to make it seem better. Dunnstral now will have to come in here acting like he agrees because Well Done is caught.

VOTE: Well Done

I convinced myself you're scummier than Catboi is now, but eh, thats probably because Catboi hasn't been posting much today.

k i don't really think either of you are scum

but i bet we'll spend pages arguing about it

You need to explain if 1977 is FL misinterpreting something or if they are outright lying or trying to fit a square into a round hole or what.

And explain how 2002 and subsequent posts on the topic can come from town

What am I misinterpreting?

Those are MY thoughts. Dunnstral has a huge amount of meta on me, and I don't believe he thought that coming from a town POV. I can see them using that to push me as scum, sure, but it's not like I don't know how Dunnstral plays.

And do you believe this is something I wouldn't do as town?

Yep

You're being manipulative and that makes you more likely to be scum

yeah, I don't believe for an instant this is a Dunnstral take. That's just a playstyle quirk.

And there's a reason it's especially concerning coming from you considering a post you made way back when that you said you probably shouldn't talk about.

This post is a lie

It's a lie that Dunnstral and I have been playing in games for years, and he's time and time again seen me manipulate town as town, and still is pushing it as scum?

Where's the lie?

All these are times I've stated that it's not the READ it's the REASONING

and Well Done has actively just ignored it and pushed like it's the read itself, the push itself.

They have ignored anything that doesn't go on their path.

Like the Froggy Protection Posse.

Misrep and twisting, and then pushing NAI personality things acting like I'm trying to hide it.

[Flavor Leaf]

The first quote was after their last one, but the rest were before, and there was probably more, I just stopped after finding that many.

It's literally been said multiple times.

[Flavor Leaf]

What part of this logic precludes town from thinking that he is scum here? What reason would scum be thinking that he is scum here, but town wouldn't be? It doesn't exist. But, he does not seem to think about that, because he is not trying to sort us here,

his immediate reaction is to discredit a push

. He started with the idea to call us scum for pushing him, then came up with a reason - that scum would think he was scum.

this is why Well Done's entire push is garbage because they keep insisting I was pushing them for that reason when I've stated multiple times it wasn't.

It just doesn't fit as cleanly for them otherwise.

I am aware that you have since then shifted to a different angle. I'm specifically talking about your first post upon seeing our vote.

OH YOU MEAN THE POST YOU GAVE THE REASONING INTO?!??!!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?

The EXACT reasoning I said I was suspecting.

[Flavor Leaf]

Catboi vs Flavor Leaf is also not a thing.

I'm pushing Catboi. I am not fighting with Catboi.

I did not mean it as fighting. I meant it in terms of this, from your guide on how you play scum:

Spoiler:

Mastina takes action by actively pushing Votato, and starts coming across as one of the main people pushing him, which will help her when he flips Red, setting her up for some major Town Clout

Gamefic 1: Mastina’s main Red push all game was Votato, who flipped Red.

With it being multiball, I am aware that that could come from you genuinely think that he is scum, and still wanting the same effect.

Gamefic isn't scum exclusive.

And you have the THEORY that I'm setting up Gamefic, not that I'm actually doing it.

Dunnstral was in that game that I referenced with the Gamefic, by the way. He was final 3 with me.

What town clout am I setting up here?

[Flavor Leaf]

Explain to me what town clout gamefic I'm setting up.

You say I'm setting gamefic up. What gamefic benefits me that I'm setting up today that would help scumMe later?

[Flavor Leaf]

You know those Gamefic you are quoting, Mastina, Votato, and I were scum partners there.

Tell me, where am I doing that this game?

[Flavor Leaf]

I want you to make a sentence that would be the Gamefic that would help spew me as town as scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

What Gamefic Narration am I creating?

I see you been posting Catboi/Menalque stuff most of the time, but flipping Catboi, if Catboi ended up being town, does absolutely nothing for me. Flipping Catboi, and them flipping scum doesn't even really do much for me.

So what Gamefic Theory line do you believe I am setting up for later to townspew me?

[Flavor Leaf]

Gamefic 3: April Ludgate and Mastina with Chemist were in a death tunnel, and Mastina and Chemist both flipped red.
Gamefic 4: April Ludgate used their pre existing claim of JOAT, in which there were multiple, and got an accurate result.

These are the other Gamefic moments.

Mastina, April (Me), Chemist, and Votato are the scum team there.

[Flavor Leaf]

Our accusation, is that Flavor Leaf is approaching this game with a primary mindset of manipulation, and setting up narratives. And that seems more important in his approach to this game, then scum hunting/eliminating scum.

I have clearly transparent developed reads on the majority of players in this game.

I am a GAME STATE analyzer, and spent hours on end the other day pushing my main scum read.

[Flavor Leaf]

That's what I thought, you disappear when you can't give a line of Gamefic that you've been pushing that I was attempting to push on the game.

VOTE: Well Done

Fade this, and let's go to Day 2.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm not even sure if they're scum, parts of me think they're town.

But I keep going back to the timing of it happening right after I started suspicion on Mastina, which is why I believe it was on their mind that I was pushing those that scum read me.

Well Done/Mastina scum team.

[Flavor Leaf]

Lukewarm pushing those personality traits as scum, fine.

Dunnstral only having that as reasons, no.

[Flavor Leaf]

Literally... the exact gamefic thing that I quoted, but with you and catboi swapped in.

If you are scum, and catboi is not on your team, then you could genuinely be scum reading him. (I am also still entertaining the idea of the two of you as scum together, but not interested in that discussion currently because I don't think that anyone will like my thinking on it lmao -- but that would be a 1 for 1 swap)

You then have set up the CCC who you think must have scum in it, to then turn to if and when catboi flips red.

Like, that is why I quoted those specifics examples about mastina, because they were what I was pointing at
~~~~

And then the narratives you built around wallflower, bnuuy, and the others as the person saving them would be serving as pocket attempts.

Okay, and where does that spew me as town?

[Flavor Leaf]

There's no gamefic in that quote of yours.

Give me a sentence like the ones in the example if you're pushing that I'm setting up a gamefic.

[Flavor Leaf]

Gamefic is in absolutes, not If's

[Flavor Leaf]

@Everyone

Look at 2152

and then compare it to the GameFic in viewtopic.php?p=12068127#p12068127 this thread.

They are using the GameFic line to try and push a buzzword, but they're not saying any actual line of Gamefic.

[Flavor Leaf]

You then have set up the CCC who you think must have scum in it, to then turn to if and when catboi flips red.

Just like with the Froggy Protection Posse, right?

This is a theory by you, not a case, you acting like it's absolute when the only other time I've done it I was town, yet that was something you ignored and wanted to twist.


So you're saying if Catboi flips Red, it's scummy for me to go after the ones that were defending them.

[Flavor Leaf]

You then have set up the CCC who you think must have scum in it, to then turn to if and when catboi flips red.

So you're saying if Catboi flips Red, it's scummy for me to go after the ones that were defending them.

The 4 are Nashville, Malcolm, Menalque, and Butter.

That's the CCC.

Yeah, all 4 of those are people I would spend my time with analyzing each and every one of them individually, probably flip flopping multiple times.

But yeah, if Catboi flips scum, in what world would I not think there is scum defending them?

[Flavor Leaf]

Is gamefic another way of saying 'weaving a narrative'?

Kind of.

Gamefic is a line of narrative.

My guide says for scum to create gamefic.


Like say you got a guilty on Well Done.

The gamefic would be:

Cat Scratch guiltied Well Done, and they flipped scum.




Simple line. I'm a writer so I see all games as heavy narrative, which is why I called it GameFic. All lines of GameFic are true lines. But scum can abuse that to help get town read.

They're saying I'm manipulating and creating GameFic, but there's literally nothing that I've done in this game that would town spew me in later days after some of these flips.

But I hope to show that with my play that I am town.

[Flavor Leaf]

Like, maybe I am not using your terms the way that you would use your terms. But, I don't actually care. I think you are scum.

That's fine. Don't try and create some fake narrative, and act like you're 100% right on Day 1.

I don't even care if you think you're like 75% correct, that's fine.

I know for a fact you are wrong. It's okay to be wrong on Day 1.


You have a gut scum read, and have theories that you believe are true. You keep just taking anything and everything I'm doing and pushing it as scum manipulating the game as if I would never do it as town.

You thinking that town SHOULDN'T do something as scum, is not the same.

[Flavor Leaf]

So like say Catboi and I were scum together.

GF 1: Flavor Leaf pushed Catboi heavily all of Day 1.
GF 2: Catboi was flipped Day 2. Flipped Mafia.

I specifically stated Mafia here because in this scenario, as MafiaFlavor and MafiaCatboi, this would spew Flavor as not Mafia, not as not scum.

Does this make sense?

[Flavor Leaf]

You not trusting me does not make scum.

You are posting nothing but theories, which is fine, it's Day 1. But even if you think I'm scum, you have no choice but to accept they are theories.

My play will speak for itself, and I am a player who is good at obv towning myself in later days.

[Flavor Leaf]

So your theory is that Catboi and I are scum together?

[Flavor Leaf]

See, I've been here with you for pages now, Well Done.

If you are town, what can I do to get you to see that I'm town?

I know it seemed like we were in a heavy 1v1, but I've been doing my best to try and get you to see where the holes are in your case, and explain them as best as I can as to why it's happening.

If you think I'm scum, fine, but there's 7 more group scum, and 1 Malefactor to find as well.


1 vote on me is not dangerous to me if I was scum, especially considering I would have partners.


I didn't go about it the best way, but my posts towards you are there to help you trust me, and see where I'm coming from with all of it.

If you are town, what do you need from me to help you see that I am town?

[Flavor Leaf]

I spotted manipulative looking posts that I didn't trust. And I spotted posts that looked like they were buddying.

like yeah, I try to rally and convince people to join me on the wagon I'm pushing, and to try to get them to town read me. The ladder is how I play town specifically.

My #1 goal is to try and eventually make a connection with every single player, and try to get them to town read me.

Now I'm going to do it with you.

I understand your scum read, it is mostly gut with theories.

I can work with that.

Now, even if you think I'm scum, like I said, there's 7 more group scum, and another team. What are your other reads?

[Flavor Leaf]

You are posting nothing but theories, which is fine, it's Day 1. But even if you think I'm scum, you have no choice but to accept they are theories.

The game of mafia is built on theories. Known information is the exception, not the rule for this game.

For anyone wondering, yes, you can tack on the words "I am theorizing" "I think" "My guess" etc, etc, can be tacked on to the beginning of every post that I have made.

But, Flavor Leaf being scum is my most confident theory about this game at this moment, and therefore, is the person I most want to kill, and therefore I presented it.

And are you at least at a level of play that you're able to work with people, even ones you think are scum?

it's fine, but because I can see you have a gut scum read on me now, I can work with that much better. Before you were acting like I've done this, this, and this so that makes me scum.

If I'm town, should I not be trying to get you to town read me here?

[Flavor Leaf]

I didn't go about it the best way, but my posts towards you are there to help you trust me, and see where I'm coming from with all of it.

If you are town, what do you need from me to help you see that I am town?

Gonna be real, your reaction to our push did nothing but make me believe you to be scum even more.

(from the OMGUS, to feeling like you were misrepping the basis of our scum read, to you trying to prove you were not even town reading us before, trying to frame it that this read is never one that Dunn would have)

I'm gonna go try once again to sleep, and look at this again later.

That's not what I asked.

[Flavor Leaf]

I guess it's hopeless. Time to move on.

UNVOTE: Well Done

I'm like 50/50 on Well Done, but frankly, I'm tired of this back and forth. I tried. I didn't do it the best, but at this point, this is one of those, they'll have to see it later down the line if they're town.

[Flavor Leaf]

post 0, Flavor Leaf"]

Mastina

Flavor Leaf takes action by actively pushing

Votato

catboi, and starts coming across as one of the main people pushing him, which will help her when he flips Red, setting her up for some major Town Clout

Gamefic 1:

Mastina

Flavor Leaf’s main Red push all game was

Votato

catboi, who flipped Red.

~~~~~~

But like, I don't even think of the game in the terms that you do. I don't know that I can map out what you are asking in the terms that you are asking them

I read your posts, and they felt slimy like a used car sales man, and I didn't trust you. I spotted an apparent mindset shift when approaching the game that I did not trust. I spotted manipulative looking posts that I didn't trust. And I spotted posts that looked like they were buddying. And I didn't trust any of them either.

And then I read your guide, and I felt like I was reading an explanation for each of the things that I felt about your play

So your theory is that Catboi and I are scum together?

Also

[Flavor Leaf]

let's just try our luck with the beloved princess and see what crazy stuff happens over night.

VOTE: Mastina

[Flavor Leaf]

Best Case Scenario it's a Scum Beloved Princess.

[Flavor Leaf]

Flavor, did you see the 1705 about Nashville Dreams?

Yeah, I saw it.

Nashville could be scum, they're in my Pink tier, but part of me thinks they could just be town not in the game fully. I likely wont be one of the main ones pushing Nashville myself, but I do town read most of the people pushing them.

Idk. I feel like I'd be able to read them with a much higher certainty a little bit later in the game, and it's holding me back from wanting to go there.

I get the case, I just don't know if it makes them scum, is where I'm at.

[Flavor Leaf]

let's just try our luck with the beloved princess and see what crazy stuff happens over night.

VOTE: Mastina

I meant over night as in I wake up tomorrow morning and see what the response is, not game night, but yeah, that too.

[Flavor Leaf]

Figures Catboi turns now.

Oh what timing