KTaNE [game over!]

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

You’re either scum or being a baby pick 1.

go buy a mirror

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Get dead bear.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Fuckin bears’ messin with my vibes man.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Kill pooky. It’s clear he has nothing to offer but snark this game.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Please Kill fire with fire.
ttfn.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Andante is hard!town

she doesn't like bussing

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

VOTE: CSF

HEAL: VP Baltar
HEAL: Dwlee99

not really a fan of strangematter getting healed what's up with that one

dwlee probably most likely town in last night's group

like, feels like Mistyx knows VP maf and is trying to avoid really saying anything about him. I want mist to go first though of the 2

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i really find it hard to believe she double busses both teammates in one post

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

she likes talking with her team she's not going to yeet them out a window

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

she changes her mind and votes dwlee but i find chaotic changey play to be more often town!indicative than scum!indicative

bussing usually is single trajectory and very simple in my experience - I don't think she fakes waffly bus.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

VOTE: Bell

I don't even think he's scum I just don't like him

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

since we've decided to all lose our minds

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

being in this thread just makes me upset so i'm going to bounce for 48 hours and hopefully by the time I'm back I'm like dead or whatever.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

so according to mena

im scum cuz i caught vpb on d1 but no1 listened to me

i didnt solo blow vpb up in the n1 pt cuz literally everyone in the pt wanted him to live

and mena literally walked into the pt intent on saving vpb

so thats all my fault for listening to everyone else

also

according to him i shouldve pushed vpb on day 2

the day when everyone wanted to kill frogster

and

how does it even make sense for me to want to kill vpb on d2 when i literally just spared him on n1?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

cuz look how that whole lone ranger shit worked out for frogster when he decided to strike out on his own and listen to his own reads.

yup

frogster has to die cuz he wouldnt listen to everyone else

pooky has to die cuz he listened to the other 3 people in the pt

makes perfect sense

whatever u need to justify ur bad reads.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

HEAL: Pooky
HEAL: Titus
HEAL: Catboi
HEAL: Andante
HEAL: Frogster
HEAL: Greeting
HEAL: Praet

I am willing to be bribed for my last heal thing

What made you want to heal praet here?

koba has a history of being good at using pts as town and being able to obvtown in them. they also said they really wanted to be an expert.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

If you want to argue against me then you may want to read the very large post under the spoiler in order to argue against what I’m actually saying

I dont have the energy or time to write a rebuttal for every one of your points because its a giant wall of idiocy

also nobody is going to read a wall for wall response.

i read the first part and responded to them

if there are other things you find compelling i can respond to them one by one

using a laundry list is a sign that you dont actually have compelling reasoning just a lot of nonsense.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I believe somebody once said

“The goal of scum is to not look like you are scum - it is to survive for another day.

[...]

It's about whether [their] emotional responses make sense for the situation [they’re] in.“

I think that pooky today has been all about trying to survive for another day while trying to act cool/emotional alternately to that end

There was the very dramatic but rather brief self-vote yesterday, followed by him saying he’d take a break from thread to chill out and that he hoped he’d be dead by the time he game back

But now that he’s actually becoming a viable lim with two people voting him and GL maybe coming round in that direction, he’s back early and his focus is still on discrediting me and trying to survive — it’s not about finding scum and nailing them to the fucking wall, which is what pooky as town would be doing, it’s all about saying or doing whatever he needs to do to not be eliminated

If he was town, he should feel that, even if we’re wrong on him, we have a pretty good shot at winning and the goal is to help town navigate to that (see: what I’ve been doing all day). But it’s not, it’s survival

Why?

I am back early because i cooled off from being angry at you

but thanks for putting the wordt possible spin on it

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

oh yes the "hes not finding scum" "hes trying to defend himself against me" attack

truly stellar reasoning

i guess i must be mafia for trying to defend myself then rofl

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like i literally said to you;

hey i would like to reread the whole game when i have time on my computer when i have time next week because right now I am on mobile only.

but keep going off on how im not scum hunting cuz i defended myself by refuting the first part of your "case"

i already regret coming back to talk to you. you just treat everything in such bad faith.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

everything i argued against is what you actually said in your case

you blame me for not blowing him up in the n1 pt

despite you coming jnto the n1 pt and demanding we defuse the bomb for him

despite not a single person voting vpb with me on d1 at the end vote count

despite everyone in the pt solving their bomb parts for him

yes i went along with consensus and just solved

but its WHAT YOU FUCKING TOLD ME TO DO

so why r u being such a hypocrite!?!?!?



you blame for not pushing vPB on d2

how the fuck does it make sense for me to push him on d2 when i just let him live on n1?

like this is just nonsense.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i think he is extremely tunneled town who thinks everything i do is scum indicative because confbias

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like when i see scum do cases they r usually good cases because scum need to make their case make sense

its usually townies who have completely garbage cases that dont make any sense but think they solved fermats last theorem

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

that was a p good case tho

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

rofl

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like you see how theres faked nuance and thought and shit

its performative in the sense that hes trying to take you on a trip thru his view of the hood and make it look like he is guiding you thru his thought process. its also lvl one in that he is concluding the paranoia and curveballs are scum pocketing datisi rather than just how datisi/vpb always interact together - he should've at a baseline done meta research to see if their interactions are like this in the past.

his positioning is just unfortunate in that he has to push baltar there to save the game.

menas just putting up everything i did and claiming it proves im scum in a way thats completely nonsensical - cuz it makes sense to HIM because hes so confbiased that im scum that he thinks literally everything i do is scum indicative.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

what is your case?

i am addressing the first two things i read

which were

pooky is scum for not blowing up vpb in n1 pt

and

pooky is scum for not pushing vpb on d2

write your one sentence point and ill address it

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like why would you even write 4 paragraphs about how im misrepping your case

just write your most compelling point and i will read it and address it

im not refuting a 5000 word laundry list

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

what is your actual argument

one sentence

i am not refuting you quoting every post of mine with some bad faith commentary.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

dwlee what is menas actual case for me scum

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

see mena theres two of us who dont know what your actual point is

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

so lets say you are doing it for dwlee here instead of me ok?

whats your one sentence main point for me!scum

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

VOTE: mena

sure

your case is so amazing you cant even explain it to me

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i dont even think you're mafia i just think you are helping the mafia win

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

cant even do the basics of writing out what your actual point is

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

its actually amazing you can be this arrogant while being completely wrong

absolutely mindboggling to me

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

well according to you its cuz im scum so wouldnt actually be funny :3

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

it would be nice if i could talk about your actual main argument but you continue to refuse to even state it for me

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

well according to you its cuz im scum so wouldnt actually be funny :3

I mean yes, that is the subtext, well done. I think you used the selfvote and Bell votes as AtE plots and I think your claimed frustration with me is to justify trying to get the lim that you thought was in the bag coming into today and that you didn’t need to make any effort to try and secure

yes cuz hard defending you as town is the best way to secure your lim

its actually funny how delusional you are

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

ive been trying so hard to elim you by calling you town

yes youve caught on to my evil scheme mena

rofl

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

youve now written 5 posts stating that i should be able to read your case and know what your main point is

instead of just writing what your main point is

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i skimmed ur case and its basically a giant laundry list of quotes with bad faith interpretations on each one

i am not going to refute each point separately because nobody is going to read a long back and forth and it is a waste of time

if you actually have a real cogent main point i will address it.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

what is your case?

i am addressing the first two things i read

which were

pooky is scum for not blowing up vpb in n1 pt

and

pooky is scum for not pushing vpb on d2

write your one sentence point and ill address it

like why would you even write 4 paragraphs about how im misrepping your case

just write your most compelling point and i will read it and address it

im not refuting a 5000 word laundry list

Because I have already said multiple times what my argument is

It is, as far as I’m aware, clear to absolutely everybody who is not you

Whats more likely: you happen by sheer chance to be reading the same posts as everyone else yet the only one who doesn’t understand the argument actually being made? That you do understand but are pretending not to so as to engage with a much easier argument to defend yourself from? Or you’re not actually bothering to read my posts which would be a pretty weird thing to do from someone who actually needs to sort people?

Did you read this post? If so, do you understand it?

why do you continue to be a pompous ass instead of just writing out what your main point is

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I think it’s pretty clear and written in a simple vernacular for anybody to grasp, but you seem to be having trouble

then it shouldnt be hard for you to write it out one time instead of whining in 10 posts about me not getting it.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

why dont u just write out your main point instead of spamming

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

are you actually that dense

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

yes im the one being dumb because you wont write out what your main point is but youd rather write 20 posts about how im playing dumb

very helpful

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i think u might have a grudge dude

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

if i was like scum

i wouldve shot you like days ago

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I don't know.

I have to sit down and do my re-read of the game.

I've been busy all week and the weekend is packed so I'll probably get some time to actually re-read monday-wednesday.

we have 8 days of deadline there is no rush - let's not fumble at the 3 yard line cuz we happened to have 1 scum left.

It's actually amazing that I say this to Mena and his response is to rush his own elim thru to try to kamikaze bomb me and accuse me of not being solvy when I literally told him I would solve on the weekday cuz weekend is not good for me.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

It's truly some stellar play that I haven't seen since maybe 2005

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I think Bell was shot at N2

Why do you actually think this? Like what's the incentive to shoot Bell N2 instead of say N1.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

lmao Enchant you trickster you

He basically refused to give info the whole night and I was all set to die, and kinda had POE'd my way back to him, then he submitted his solve at the last second

Unless this is galaxy brain wifom stuff from a losing position (in which case we could still lim him tomorrow), I kinda feel like that points to Pooky?? Not gonna lie I'm really still feeling like no solve feels good or correct

Andante you think Enchant is just trying to stall the inevitable? What good does it do to troll all night and then save me at the last second?

um wouldn't the obvious answer be that he chickened out of blowing you up at the last second cuz he thinks he gets limmed very quickly if you blow up with your finger pointing at him?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

if you blow up he just goes today no?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

playing scum is just about surviving one day at a time

you don't actually need a master plan to go all the way to the end

I usually just wing it

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

It's not me

I'm too fun to be scum

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

also I would've totally defused like 7 bombs by now

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Maybe this is one of those games where you just flip the table over and flip the most townread person cuz that's where the deepest wolf is

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

who even is the most townread person atp

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I mean like actually townread not mechanically conftown

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

thanks :3

it's all bell's fault btw

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Firebringer bet me 2 months that town would win the last dance game and Bell crushed it p hard

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

actually Bell why do your reads this game suck so bad

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

have you liked pushed a baddie yet I can't remember

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I think Bell might be the last scum

It’s me the last scum. Good job, you caught me.

sick if true

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

so 3 scum most likely in:
[tweet, menalque]
[dwlee, strange]
[andres, mala, enchant]

and then like maybe 1 of:
[csf, bell]
[vp, andante]

an 11 person poe woohooo that's so useful

Well, this is a very strange list indeed.

brah maybe we should've listened to fireisredsir

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Bell on VPB D1:

Gotta go to work. Gunna run late.
Nvm on vp baltar scum.
Too wholesome. Must be town.

Bell on Tweetie D1:

My experience with MT has not resulted in me getting a read off of them yet. But my experience is that they’re pretty hedgy as town, so I don’t agree with GL.

<Context is GL is pushing Tweetie as scum D1 for being hedgie af>

Bell on Koba D1:

Koba is what I call a cutt throat. They are motivated to win and enjoy winning.
But they came in here as an alt so I don’t know what they were going for in this game, I also never learned if they stress more as scum or if they left this game specifically because of their alignment plist or something else.

If it had been Koba, No alt. I would’ve been scum reading them this game.

mmm

what are we actually townreading this dude for again someone talk to me

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

there's like 2 posts for each of the scum and 47 mentions of fire and 40 mentions of luke and most of them are about wanting to kill them

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

@Dwlee why is Bell near conftown to you again?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I'm off work now.
Ceprir, isn't that like, exactly what the scum team is hoping for if Baltar is town. Just keep playing up the paranoia until town can't ignore it anymore. There should be other solutions than "Oh they went three times, guess we gotta kill them just in case!"

@GL: I did not put Misty in that solution. As for the rest, I still just think your play is disappointing this game if you're town *shrug*

defending misty and vpb at the same time is this a mob lawyer

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

VOTE: mala

That was entertaining, let's lim scum now ty

Lolnope

Please halp if town.

Reading mala’s iso makes me sad.

this just feels weird to be posting in response to Mala being wagoned

its like he doesnt know what to do cuz it's awkward if he votes there and awkward if he doesn't?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Someone needs to explain why VP bal shouldn’t just be investigated before anyone makes the argument they should be eliminated instead.

mb the info the scum had was that town doesn't have any investigatives

that would make this make a lot of sense to me

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

HEAL: Titus

VOTE: Dwlee

Wtf is this post

Nah. You’re playing like scum.

what even was this sequence

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

How does town!bell come in here and heal TITUS, ignore any discussions about mala/vpb, and vote me. Real big thinker here. Maybe we aren't dealing with town!bell sad face

How does being condescending help you.
Also, I haven’t ignored either conversation and I’m confused why you think I have given the posts I’ve made this day phase.

If you’re mad because I healed Titus when you’ve inexplicably started pushing for a bomb advisor position, I dunno. You didn’t seem interested in it before.

actually I think he did ignore mala cuz i dont see much discussion of mala at all in the iso?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Wut do you mean why do my reads suck so bad. They always suck.

in that dance game that just ended you were right on Datisi/Cephrir scum

also um if you think your reads suck why are you so confident on me being scum?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

After thinking about it for 0.83 seconds I have decided that it was one of dwlee or SM.
And vp is town still.

like every take you have this game is wrong lol

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I just remember you being right on Datisi/Cephrir at the end

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Nope. Mala wasn’t trying. She basically died because she couldn’t be assed to try.
This would be like bragging that you caught enchant scum or Bell-Scum.

You don’t get points for that.

this is so weird

like he's saying mala is super easy to catch so no cred for catching her

but he also never said she was scum lol

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

You're fully assured that they're both town,
why?

this is bell shading our hood with Glion

which was

Ceph/Me/Glion/Titus

and 3 of those players are confirmed town via flip/mech and I know I'm town

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I vote we wait for a little more clarity on Titus' plan cause I don't think I understand what she was suggesting

but I also am fully reassured Ceph/Pooky are both town now

^

reference

I think Bell really didn't like that we had an all town hood and we all townread each other

explains the cephrir shot

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

actually explains why Titus/Glion were made bomb defusers too

he probably wanted both of them to blow up

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Andante.
I love you, but please do not try to clear dwlee if BP baltar flips scum or town

like what even is this

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

You know you’re town, do you?

i do happen to know the color of my own role pm yes

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Pooky I don't think the approach of pointing out everything wrong is likely to lead to an accurate approach in general even if it happens to be Bell this time

i mean he's just wrong on every scum flip and only pushed townies and tried to sow paranoia in a 4 player hood that happens to be all town.

i am open to people who want to say he's town for reasons if I see the reasons sure.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

But I mean, if that was the right play than I made the wrong play by sparing guiltylion. :X

i think it's fine to spare glion for you

it gives you someone who townreads you for sparing them and won't vote for you.

or if you get lucky and enchant blows him up you get a plausible push candidate for tomm.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Andante and enchant dragged me into sparing GL.
It was against my will. :< I’m weak to peer pressure.

didnt GL say enchant didnt say anything in the chat until the last minute to fuck with him

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

are you just making shit up atp

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

pagetop rekt

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

let's see

misyeet Pooky -> Blow up Andante

5 players alive

mislim enchant get experted -> 4 alive

shoot someone blow someone up -> win

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

actually i guess instead of blowing up andante you could just make yourself defuser

shoot CSF or Dwlee at night

then Andante helps you yeet enchant at 5p

4 -> 2 you just nightkill + blow up someone?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

you are pretty close to winning huh

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

lets see pooky gets limmed today

you elect GLion/Andante as Experts

You defuse a bomb and shoot Dwlee.

Tomm:

Glion/Andante/Bell/Enchant/CSF

You get Bell/CSF experts - > yeet Enchant since Andante is deathtunneled on the slot

go to night at 4p -> blow up someone + shoot someone game over?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Leaves: Enchant, Mena, pooky.

i mean this was the mislim group u were going for all along lol

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

VOTE: Bell

love you buddy.

I am your biggest fan and rooting for you to get this win

I will make some memes for you

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

This is a sequence that actually exists in this game rofl

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

@Glion check my math above

it literally doesn't even matter for Scum!Bell whether you live or not to today - the sequence for winning for him is the same. Opening D10 with 2 alive and 1 alive is literally the same thing

If we started at 6 -> lim pooky -> shoot someone -> 4 alive, he still needs enchant mislim here to win at 4P with 3 votes.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like 4P and 5P is the same thing for scum!Bell to win on mislimming enchant cuz 3 votes either way.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

are you ok dude

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

um the GL spare doesn't matter?

you mislim me today and tomm is elo regardless of whether GL is alive or not.

5p and 4p are the same thing in this setup.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

if anything it kind of helps you since he's willing to vote for me and if he's dead he can't vote for me

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I don't think Andante is easy to mislim

and I know you are using Mena's dead body to hard shove me.

Also I'm kind of surprised you think scum!me tries to shove town!you at this point in the game when you are basically UTR and by your own admission Andante/Enchant are "easy mislims" so it's kind of strange to me that you are now saying that me pushing you is a scumclaim.

What should I even be townreading from you atp?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Uh, I have a lot of off games.
So it’s just the standard now.

Uh you just got both scum correct in the dance game

here you have wrong reads on every scum and shoved three town deaths and I would make #4.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

not even wrong reads

you more or less avoid discussing any of the three scum slots in any detail

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

still kind of wild you can say andante/enchant are easy mislims and you also say you are hard to mislim as town and you seem to think scum me would push you here

like lol funnies

I'm p sure i just get yeeted here but maybe i will get deadsheeped let's see

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Was just thinking about the scum nightkill situation and I wanted to write this out.[Assuming Andante!Town - which from the dayplay, the bussing, the faked guilties, the rigged bomb spec probably is close to 100% atp]

We know scum started 1 NK, got 2 NKs from VPB defusals, and 1 NK from GLion/Andante then +.5 NK from Glion.

which puts us at 4 scum nightkills.

We have 1 used on Greeting and 1 used on Cephrir which means scum can have max 2 banked at beginning of the night.

If Bell/Enchant/Andante are scum, they can blow up GuiltyLion and shoot someone - that opens today with 5 players alive; mislim me, they go to 4 -> Blow up someone/shoot someone game over -> 2 Game over.

If scum is not in Bell/Enchant/Andante - for example Dwlee/CSF/Pooky - this is still the correct play to accelerate to elo today because there's no reason to expect Glion to survive - there is literally no reason to save the nightkill.

So the only reason scum don't pursue this line of play is if one of their nightkills was blocked somewhere along the way and they're actually sitting at [1.5] kills tonight and they need the extra mislim. (for example if Andy town then 4.5 kills -> .5 kills means they can't nightkill tonight)

Now take a look at when a kill might've actually been blocked;

N1: GuiltyLion(Mena) Pooky(Andres) Frogster(CSF)
N2: Bell(Andres) Bell(CSF)
N3: Greeting Killed
N4: Andante(CSF)
N5: Mena(CSF)
N6: Cephrir Killed


Bell says that I tried to kill him on N2 - but this theory makes very little sense if you actually think about scum strategy - why would any scum decide to SKIP shooting on N1 and shoot instead on N2?

It makes sense in exactly one scenario - if you are trying to frame the defuser on N1 - as in trying to make it look like the player who defused on N1 successfully is actually mafia then maybe you skip the n1 kill to pretend it got blocked and then shoot on n2.[We know scum didn't do this because VPB is mafia and it doesn't make sense to frame your own defuser - if anything scum definitely SKIP nightkilling on N2 because if you NK on N2 you make your own defuser look shady as fuck]

I think the reason the scum shot on N3 is to make it look like VPB defusing twice N1/2 gave them a NK and they used it on N3 -> which supports scum shooting on N1 on N1 and getting blocked somewhere.

There's little reason for scum to shoot either GLion or Frogster on N1 - ergo I was the target of being NKed on N1 or the scum nightkill on Andante(n4) was blocked.

I strongly believe now that I was the target on N1 because I don't think scum decide to not kill in that scenario[remember the ideal situation for scum is nightkills on N1/N3 that makes it look like VPB is town defuser and scum are following standard nk procedure]

Now why does scum decide to shoot me of all people on N1:

1) The top group of townreads is being set up with a rigged bomb - literally no reason to nightkill in that group.

2) I'm in the second group of townreads and I am the most skeptical person of all of them in terms of scumreading VPB.

3) I'm kind of a pain in the ass for them to deal with and VPB does not really want to continue keeping me at bay and he knows I can readflip on a dime if he fucks up anywhere down the line - this has the added bonus of freezing my reads in place on him.

4) It looks really really good for scum!VPB if I get shot after he convinces me to let him live because why would scum!VPB shoot town!pooky after town!pooky lets him live?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I vote we wait for a little more clarity on Titus' plan cause I don't think I understand what she was suggesting

but I also am fully reassured Ceph/Pooky are both town now

^

Read the sequence from this post.

Bell is very clearly "paranoid" about this turn of events from our hood where Titus gambited a fake investigation on VPB and it caused everyone in the hood to decide that this was an all town hood.

That's the worst possible scenario for Scum!Bell to see POE shrink like that.

Now I know for 100% certain this 4 player hood is all town [Ceph(nightkilled) Titus(blown up by Bell) GuiltyLion(Defused Twice) Me]

It makes sense for Bell to kill this hood because he doesn't

know

exactly what happened in this hood but he does know that he can't let the hood survive because he can get POE'd out.

Hence why the Ceph Nightkill and Titus getting Blown up. I suspect he might've wanted to kill GuiltyLion but maybe something GuiltyLion posted in the PT last night caused him to change his mind on whether he's better off with GL alive rather than dead.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Bell gave me some minor pings in the PT, he was asking a few busywork questions to Baltar about whether he prefers playing town/scum, how often VP Baltar posts as scum, which I thought could be fake solviness. I didn't understand why he was assuming the bomb defuse was likely to succeed, and he was expressing suspicion towards me which I thought might have been positioning to push me today when the bomb blew up. He did have one really townie feeling sentiment about being able to outpost me if I'm scum and I try to push him. But frankly the bomb defusing successfully I feel points to him being town again - I don't see why scum!Bell would swap misty into the hood and yet then give correct info and not sabotage the bomb.

uh this makes a lot of sense

VPB went again cuz (2/3) people in the bomb PT were his scum buddies

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

final bomb squad is:

experts:

• Bell
  
• Mistyx
  
• GuiltyLion

defuser:

• VP Baltar

the information for the defuser and experts will be going out shortly. night 2 starts now and ends in

(expired on 2022-04-04 20:35:00)

.

look at this bomb PT again and see if it makes more sense if you're the only town player in there and they're just doing some bullshit scum theatre

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

the swap where VPB -> defuser and Misty becomes an Expert is designed to make it look like scum are trying to kill VPB again - spared once, spare again.

Misty jumping into the open VPB spot maintains the scum influence in the PT at 2 experts and really they only have to convince GL to get VPB his second defuse

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Let's assume we have All-Town Expert Team d1, which are SANE. Yes i know it's hard to believe but look. Mafia then chooses someone Townie-Townie who town wants to save, they obviously do, but "Bam", he dies anyway. Everyone pissed on everyone, chaos. Town can't possible kill all four too fast. Others fill in Expert Niche, others will be defusers. Of course, mafia will never make previous experts defusers, they make self. And more likely they defuse than not.

It was possible for mafia to win, while town tried to shred in search of day 1 sabotour which never existed in first place.


Of course, this plan failed, because of hilarious reasons, but VP still managed get 2 defuses. When i voted him and suggested to "check" how much defuses we have, it didn't find almost none support. Then VP just takes and blows up Andres for hellwhat reason, blowing his cover, just blows how many defuses mafia have. Of course it was idiotic move, so i supported him, because i didn't expect he really act like that as scum.

Enchant do you remember writing this yesterday about how Andante can't be scum because scum tried to frame Andante with a rigged bomb on N1 ?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Who the fuck you call unstable.

You two! You two are very random and confusing and I never know what you’re going to do! It’s really hard to read or understand you two! I don’t understand your logic!

I don't think either Andante or Enchant are as random and enigmatic as Bell is making them out to be.

Also like it's pretty clear imo the scum kills are following a plan and not like random wild shots in the dark.

Do either scum!Andy or scum!Enchant skip a nightkill to hold it for 5P? I have my doubts they plan that far ahead.

killing Titus, Cephrir and having Glion "defuse" is not a coincidence.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

At pooky re: all the nightkill stuff, I believe I have shown that it's the case that saving excess kills is correct from a scum EV standpoint, especially with no clear PRs to kill. I might be wrong but I think you should look at that before assuming scum attempted to kill N1. It's also kinda likely scum didn't know this, however, so it's actually still possible they tried to kill N1 as a result

except scum do not know from the beginning how many nightkills they will get and when - they only know at the end whether the schedule accelerates.

Also in this game elo happens at 5 alive because they can go 4 -> doublekill -> 2 alive game over if one scum left.

if there are two scum elo happens at 7 alive -> 6 - > 4

Town wants to be on Evens for elims not odds because of the way doublekill works into parity.

That's why 7 alive is not necessarily better than 6 alive.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

have fun!

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

My one game related point I can make now is -Pooky, while you are right in a vacuum that scum could go from 4->2 and win which means 7 is not as much better than 6 as it is in a normal game, you're not really accounting for the fact that scum defuse is limited to only a subset of players, townies can safely defuse anybody who hasn't defused a bomb yet which is everyone other than Andante, and scum won't have an NK every single night unless they've still got one sitting around they haven't tried to use. So your argument is a little disingenous/misleading to downplay how 7 alive w/ conftown is still strictly better than 6 here.

Scum are at 1.5 nightkills(assuming andante town)

Assume I get mislimmed here(6 players)

Scum picks any townie to defuse tonight

either that townie will die or defuse.

if the townie dies and scum nightkill - they wake up at 4 alive - that's ELO tomm

if the townie defuses and scum nightkill - they wkae up at 5 alive and have 1 nightkill - that is also ELO tomm.

if the scum blows you up instead of letting you defuse - they still end up at elo tomm.

You living literally changes nothing except helping the scum if you are going to be voting for me.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

We know scum have 4.5 - 5 NKs (they have 4.5 if Andante is town and 5 if Andante is scum)

we have had 2 nightkills hit(Greeting, Cephrir)

So scum have either 1 nightkill saved up for tonight and they got blocked once OR they have 2 saved up OR they have been blocked twice.

I believe it doesn't make sense to save more than 1 NK because it doesn't help you get to elo any faster, look at the blocks - can you even find 2 potential nightkill blocks?

However it makes a lot of sense for scum to save exactly one nightkill because of the way they approach elo here.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

My point is that regardless of whether scum are at 6 or 7 alive -

their goal is to eliminate me today and win at elo tommorrow.

This is true regardless if GuiltyLion defuses or not in the PT.

If GuiltyLion is in the PT claiming that he will vote for Pooky - then scum in PT have no reason to blow GLion up.

It takes 4 votes to kill Pooky at 6P and 7P - why kill a potential Pooky voter when you can save them, make them indebted to you and get closer to killing Pooky and getting to Elo?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

it literally doesn't matter who gets experted anymore

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

you lim me

we go to 6p

scum nominate ANY DEFUSER

they shoot one person tonight

If the Defuser defuses correctly

tomm is 5P with 1 scum NK [ELO]

if the defuser does NOT defuse correctly

tomm is 4P with 0 scum NK[ELO]

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

what happens in the bomb PT is literally meaningless

either way tommorrow is elo and scum win by elimming a town at elo

they do not need to blow someone up in the PT

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Because game will end after your lim?

Winkwinkwinkwink

I'm not going to get mad at you refusing to read and think anymore I have just accepted that is how you are.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

no you can't

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i literally already wrote everything out what r u confused about

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i feel like i am the only person still playing every1 else just decided to be lazy and dial it in

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

you lim me

6 players left

scum nightkill someone

5 players left


Someone who is town gets nominated to be Defuser

they either

(A) Defuse Correctly -> We wake up at 5P and scum have 1 NK

or

(B) Get Blown up -> We wake up at 4P and scum have .5 NK

either way it is elo

what is hard to understand about this?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

5P with 1 NK is elo

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

you start at 5P:

you eliminate one person who is town

you go to night at 4P

scum nightkill someone, give someone else shitty bomb directions -> 2P game over

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Depends if scum makes it in expert team and will able to blow up.

the last scum is a switcher so pretty sure they can just switch themselves into the team even if they dont get voted in

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

2 more or 3 more votes I think?

i am at e-1

bell is trying to shut me up

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Why are we even talking about this?

why do you even want to stop me talking about it if you think i'm last scum?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Bell is just openwolfing atp

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

why would scum not save a switch for elo

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

seems kind of important to do

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

if the switching power is gated - it's probably limited shot usage, seems like common sense to save one shot for elo so scum can always join the expert team and blow up a town defuser at will.

if the switching power is ungated(imo too strong and unlikely to be the case) then scum have stopped using it in hopes that we forget about it.[long shot but I'm not sure when they would even want to use it]

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

UNVOTE: Bell

I'm having trouble sleeping so I just have to get this off my chest.

What are you all doing this game?

It feels like nobody wants to actually play or put in the time to solve this game.

I don't even know what I am doing here anymore.

We have 2 eliminations left to find one scum. It seems more or less decided that the first elimination will be used on me.

and then what?

What happens tommorrow?

Guiltylion will get shot in the face at night.

You will wake up with 5 alive and scum will be one elimination away from winning this game. [5 -> 4 (scum shoot one and blow one up) -> 2 alive parity)

5 alive with one scum is 20% odds for town and scum can quickhammer any town slot that gets to two votes.

What are you going to do at that point?

Turn your brains off and vote out Enchant and just hope he's scum?

This is page 251. We are all exhausted of this game but that doesn't mean we stop trying because if we do then what was the point of all this?

The first couple of scum have been easy and the last one is not. That's not a reason to stop trying to play the game and decide oh let's just kill Pooky/Enchant cuz ???.

Maybe you all think I'm wrong about Bell.

Talk to me - tell me where I'm wrong. Tell me I'm wrong about how the math works out. Tell me why you townread him. Tell me what you're actually thinking about this game.

I'm not going to be alive for much longer but while I'm alive I'd like to actually figure out who to eliminate after me because I still want to win.

I don't want everything we did to come to nothing just because everybody stopped caring for some reason right at the end.

Like it's hard for me to actually care sometimes but I still do and if this is how it ends then so be it but I'd like for us to actually try to win instead of deciding this game isn't worth playing.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

actually it is optimal to explode whoever is the defuser tonight because 5p and 4p are both elo tomm so there is no difference.

Playing elo with 4p is better than playing elo with 5p because there's one less slot to actually account for.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i just had a dream where catboi came back from the dead and called me an idiot for suspecting Bell

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Pooky I feel like I straight up have no actual leads besides you.

the problem with being a POE player is that when you misread one scumbag you just lose the game and in a large theme you're always going to misread at least one scumbag

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

because when you play by POE you push mislims for the scum who is in your townreads since you're operating on autopilot p much.

when you are actively hunting, the scum in your townreads also has to actively hunt to maintain appearances so there is a chance they slip up and fall out of your townreads.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like rn it feels like collective POE is just me/enchant

so if the collective POE is wrong - then we lose.

the scum literally doesn't have to do much work because they can just say "i agree with POE" and win via POE.

if entire town is lazy - scum can also be lazy.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Pooky making me "play the game" and "scum hunt" absolutely unbelievable

I mean what am i supposed to do

just accept being limmed and betting the game that Enchant is scum?

i dun like those odds ngl

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I'm not sure what to do with the idea though that anyone can be scum. Like I think if I really wanted to I could scum case anyone here except GL

like this is the 4th quarter of the game

we have like 250 pages of game we can reread for clues etc.

let's make the effort and talk it out. If you think I'm wrong about Bell make the case for it and let's talk it out.

End of the day if you still think its me at least we made the effort instead of lazy dialed it in.

I don't feel any shame about losing games where I try but feels kinda shit to lose cuz we didnt bother playing.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I don't really know how to read Enchant - usually I use associative reads because he's considered limbait and if I can find scum trying to push him when it's convenient and doesn't feel like a bus then he's probably just town.

I have badly misread him at elo before[stupid fucking dream about dolphins]

The main thing I used to use Bell is tonal because he has issues with confidence and feeling like a block of wood when he's scum;

I am worried that this read is wrong because Bell's accuracy is very bad this game and his posts are more along the one liners and jokes and it feels like he's just taking a POE and shoving it through a wood chipper instead of actually solving for scum.

I'm kind of basing the CSF read on her play in Pokemon being stilted and uncomfortable. Her dayplay/accuracy is solid and I don't think it makes sense for her to CC mena at the time she did when she did it.

I am not really worried about my Andante read being wrong - she's just very townie by mech and dayplay.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I am now more confused than I was before

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Except Pooky. No AMA's for that one.

are you actually sure I am scum or is this some bucket list thing for you?

because if you're town here, I'm really not sure you know what to do tomorrow and like I'm not going to be able to come back from the dead and bail you out ala Death Curse.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Here's the thing.

I can accept being eliminated today on the condition that you give me the full 7 days to figure out who to eliminate tomm and deadsheep me on it no questions asked tomorrow.

But I can't do this if everyone is going to be like "oh yea pooky is going to flip scum so idgaf and I'm not going to post or try"

or I guess if you all just want to lim me and not really care about what I have to say then yea I can accept that and que sera sera.

I won't be happy about it but I understand that maybe you really do need me to flip before you can start caring about this game.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Like I'm gonna give you the 7 days, I'm annoyed that Menalque decided to cut our time short, but also I haven't completely dipped off the face of the earth like your post implies everyone is doing.

I am not talking about you.

I don't think I am being unfair about many people not being here.

I feel a sense of urgency because I think I am not going to be here for very long so I have a somewhat limited time to discuss things. We've burned about half the day away and I don't think there's been substantive posting from more than half the table.

Most of the feeling I get is that people are fine with me being eliminated and don't even know tomorrow is elo.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

And you also kinda completely ignored what implications it has for bell and enchant's alignments but have just kinda moved to defending yourself more

??

I am town

we have two elims left.

I do not want to be one of them.

I've tried casing Bell and explaining why his play makes sense from scum!him.

I have gotten almost no feedback on it from any player here. If anyone wants to talk then I am here for that.

What do you want me to do?

I can't solve this game after I am dead.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like if people just want me to stop whining, shut up and accept the lim and they'll play the game tomm after I'm dead - I'll gladly stop posting and leave you all to it.

My play throughout the entirety of this game does not come from scum!me and I am happy to explain any stance, any post, any sequence I have done to the best of my ability if I can remember what I was thinking at the time.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

What do you think of day one heal analysis?

I think it's pretty clear scum tried to frame Andante's group of top townreads to create chain mislims.

I think it's obvious since I wanted to be in a group with Andante/Catboi/??? I forgot who else I wanted in the team, that means I'm not scum since it makes literally 0 sense to frame myself.

I think I was shot at N1 because I wasn't in the group that got framed and it's the only nightkill that night that makes sense given we know scum have a blocked shot somewhere.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like if Day 1 we had 8 people that were UTR and we all found 8 town - that is a very strong start for the town.

But the scum having a framing bomb to break that townblock explains why scum were ok with that townblock and did not try harder to fight their way into it and were ok being on the backfoot and did not try very hard to towntell.

They likely expected to be able to chain 4 mislims and not have to worry about actually being pressured on dayplay.

Frogster doing some wild shenanigans caught them completely by surprise and they couldn't transition to towntelling fast enough.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

actually it kind of fits with Bell being scum because Bell did not really try very hard to become UTR and become part of the expert team and I wouldn't expect that from town!Bell:

Andante [14]: Menalque, Malakittens, fireisredsir, Cephrir, Mistyx, GuiltyLion, VP Baltar, Cat Scratch Fever, StrangeMatter, Bell, Enchant, Titus, Andresvmb, Greeting
Greeting [11]: Cephrir, Mistyx, PookyTheMagicalBear, fireisredsir, GuiltyLion, Bell, VP Baltar, StrangeMatter, Enchant, Dwlee99, Andresvmb
catboi [11]: VP Baltar, PookyTheMagicalBear, Bell, fireisredsir, Cat Scratch Fever, Andante, Cephrir, Enchant, Andresvmb, Titus, Menalque
Frogsterking [8]: Titus, VP Baltar, Malakittens, PookyTheMagicalBear, Mistyx, Greeting, GuiltyLion, Enchant, Bell
Menalque [8]: GuiltyLion, Enchant, Bell, catboi, Andante, Greeting, Titus, Cephrir
PookyTheMagicalBear [7]: Andante, Cephrir, Cat Scratch Fever, fireisredsir, Enchant, Greeting, catboi
Cat Scratch Fever [6]: PookyTheMagicalBear, GuiltyLion, Frogsterking, Cephrir, Enchant, Bell
Cephrir [6]: Titus, Enchant, Dwlee99, Andante, Menalque, catboi
Dwlee99 [5]: VP Baltar, Titus, Cephrir, Enchant, Andresvmb
StrangeMatter [4]: Frogsterking, Greeting, Enchant, Andresvmb
Titus [4]: Malakittens, PookyTheMagicalBear, Enchant, Andresvmb
Malakittens [3]: Enchant, Menalque, PookyTheMagicalBear
GuiltyLion [3]: Malakittens, Enchant, Bell
Bell [3]: Enchant, Cephrir, VP Baltar
Mistyx [2]: Malakittens, Enchant
fireisredsir [2]: Enchant, Andresvmb
VP Baltar [2]: Enchant, Dwlee99
Enchant [2]: Dwlee99, Frogsterking
Andresvmb [1]: Enchant


this makes sense if scum!Bell doesn't want to be part of the top team because if you are in the top team you get framed

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

of the top 8 heal targets - 5 are flipped town, andante is almost certainly town since the frame had to have happened in that group, leaving just me/csf as unflipped.

I am fairly sure we are both town - meaning scum just didn't try to get townread on d1 because their plan was to be nowhere near that bomb

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i am fairly sure koba constructed this plan

i would bet on it

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Bell why do you even scumread me?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Bell why do you even scumread me?

You're scum reading me. You're not bad enough to misread me. Ergo, you're scum.

You scumread me before I ever scumread you so try again

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

What was your original reason for scumreading me

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Bell why do you even scumread me?

You're scum reading me. You're not bad enough to misread me. Ergo, you're scum.

I have misread you when I'm town in previous games

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

What was your original reason for scumreading me

Overwhelming negativity.

that's not a feature of my scum game

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

my scum game esp in large themes tends to be jokey and happy and mostly banter and memes

my negativity is mostly confined to my town game when I get fustrated

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Then CSF posted a thing, I acknowledged it and backed up a bit. Since you were super duper negative in that game.
Also, I'm perfectly happy to sheep Mena. My pet hypothesis is that the reason Misty slipped by their awareness/focus was simply because he found scum you instead.

Mena's literally been wrong about every read he's made this game so why would you be happy to sheep him?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Sure, but given Pokemon, you couldn't have been much more negative without eating a ban. The floor for scum and town you is the same.

I was negative in pokemon because you called me a trumpist gaslighter

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Sure, but given Pokemon, you couldn't have been much more negative without eating a ban. The floor for scum and town you is the same.

negativity is minus survival in almost all games because negative people tend to get elimmed

I usually do not use negativity when I am scum because it is useless except when you are at 1v1 elo and you need to flood the thread enough to neutralize opposing ate.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Then CSF posted a thing, I acknowledged it and backed up a bit. Since you were super duper negative in that game.
Also, I'm perfectly happy to sheep Mena. My pet hypothesis is that the reason Misty slipped by their awareness/focus was simply because he found scum you instead.

Mena's literally been wrong about every read he's made this game so why would you be happy to sheep him?

You said the same thing about Koba and the same thing about me.
and you're not a new player, you know this isn't scummy. You know it's not a reason to scum read someone. It's just you being a sophist. Which is a type of scum.

I am asking why you would bet the game on sheeping the reads of someone who has been wrong all game.

I can understand betting the game on sheeping Cabd's reads or RC's reads when they are on the ball and limming scum left and right

I do not understand why you are ok with betting the game on Mena's read when he hasn't been right about anything so far this game.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Sure, but given Pokemon, you couldn't have been much more negative without eating a ban. The floor for scum and town you is the same.

I was negative in pokemon because you called me a trumpist gaslighter

It's been too long since I played that game to remember when the negativity started but I'm pretty sure it started with Koba/wen people started pushing you and we both escalated from there. In general, people tend to remember things as they'd like to remember it rather than how things were. People includes me.

Koba pushed me solo and I matched Koba's tone/loudness because it was necessary to avoid the thread being controlled by them.

I'd rather not re-litigate how the negativity started spiraling but I have a distinct memory in my mind of mostly just trolling with you and having fun until you said that about me and I was offended and started actually rageposting because I am upset about being called something like that when I am simply playing a role that I am forced to play because that is the randomization I was dealt.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Well, I'm not betting the game on his read.
I'm betting the game on my read. Obviously and recently I've ignored players that cased people I thought were town. There are a lot of players I think are town this game, you're the least townie of them. It's never just one reason.

ok so explain your scum-read of me?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I don't think you pushed FireisRed or SM on POE

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

also betting the game on a POE scumread is p bad play

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like you haven't even given a single reason for me to be scum other than

"Pooky misread me therefore he's scum"

which could apply if I am always right on your alignment but that's not even true because the last game we played together we were T/T and I misread you as scum when you were town;

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=88783

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Why would any scum in the PT blow up GLion if it

(a) does not move them closer to elo [they still need 2 mislims]

(b) diverts attention from the pooky mislim tomm

(c) removes someone from the game who is likely to vote for pooky


I am stating basic strategy in endgame.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

It's a clear trajectory. I didn't even really fully realize that Andante and Enchant sparing GL would result in people's SR's weakening there, but instead of panicking about how I'm going to survive in the PoE, I'm just saying it's you.

Scum win by going one at a time instead of worrying where they are in the PoE.

If you try to maneuver for positioning you look informed that the elimination you are pushing does not end the game.

Surviving to the next day is the name of the game.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

It's a clear trajectory. I didn't even really fully realize that Andante and Enchant sparing GL would result in people's SR's weakening there, but instead of panicking about how I'm going to survive in the PoE, I'm just saying it's you.

Scum win by going one at a time instead of worrying where they are in the PoE.

If you try to maneuver for positioning you look informed that the elimination you are pushing does not end the game.

Surviving to the next day is the name of the game.

I agree which is why most of your posts are during this day phase.

if I was scum and my scum team was literally just VP Baltar who suicided in some comical fashion and 2 players who basically refused to play their scum role pms I would not even bother to play or commit 10% of the effort I am committing because frankly they don't deserve to win.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like look at the way I played pokemon when my scum team barely tried.

I literally just lolcatted with memes about attack submarines and claiming I was a deepwolf AWOOOOOOOO

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Scooby Dooby Doo, where are you?
We got some work to do now

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

But you're not fooling me, 'cause I can see
The way you shake and shiver

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i'll be honest im ready to die and then watch the full throw tomm because like

reading that frogster n1 pt will be worth it

im really not feeling like efforting if nobody cares

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i have issues with people not caring but I realize I'm in the minority and you all deserve to play the game you want to play

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Point about being able to lie about what GL said is true, but if I were in there I know I won't lie about it and so getting more time for conftown opinion seems good to me.

I've already said this but to be explicitly clear, I would not blow up anyone except Andante, mainly/primarily because she already has a defuse

so if I am an expert and die and somebody claims I decided to blow up the bomb in the PT, that is a lie

I think it makes sense to blow up the person tonight because Elo at 4/5 is exactly the same thing and at 4 you have more information than at 5.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Pooky, why are you townreading Enchant?

I am considering you town here but I don't vibe with the Bell scumread at all really. I'm going to keep doing my homework today but it feels like you pivoted to Bell when I and others indicated we thought Enchant defusing my bomb was a townie action. I would think if you are town Enchant would be the first person I'd flip so I want to understand what prompted you to rule him out

I didn't like how Bell said we should deadsheep Mena and eliminate Pooky->Enchant because it feels like playing on autopilot.

I find town that are looking for the last scum in a large theme often lose because of playing on autopilot and just going down the POE because they made a decision on someone's alignment too early and they stopped re-evaluating as the game went on.

Like in Death Curse - last scum was

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I didn't like how Bell said we should deadsheep Mena and eliminate Pooky->Enchant because it feels like playing on autopilot.

I find town that are looking for the last scum in a large theme often lose because of playing on autopilot and just going down the POE because they made a decision on someone's alignment too early and they stopped re-evaluating as the game went on.

Like in Death Curse - last scum was literally the top townread of the entire town for reasons that actually on re-examination were nonsensical.

And Bell also pushed me and killed me as the last elimination before ELO and we managed to turn things around by shaking out every slot and figuring out it was actually Noraa with a very high degree of certainty.

I am telling Bell the exact same thing here and he just doesn't care. Except this time there is no Pooky with a scroll that can save everyone cuz me dying is actually dying here. You guys are going to have to figure it out on your own tommorrow.

And like Bell just doesn't give a fuck. He recognizes what the game state is - he knows I'm probably getting eliminated today and he's not interested at all in hashing things out with me - he just wants to get my elimination over with.

I don't think Town!him treats me with that level of "idgaf" cuz like he's not actually good at reading me and he's not been right about a single thing this game so I don't get how he thinks it's ok to just turn off his thinking cap and plug away like flipping me is going to end the game.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I am not good at reading Enchant because Enchant doesn't really care and it's very hard for me to read intentionality of people who don't care.

Like even now he is saying he wants to eliminate me but he doesn't suspect me.??

that's just how he plays the game because he has a policy of not caring very much.

I guess I would like to be more like him and care less.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I am not a POE player because I think it doesn't make for meaningful conversations/games and I find it can fail many times if people subvert meta or try to shift their meta.

I constantly try to incorporate parts of my town game into my scum game because I think it's the ideal way to improve your scum game.

I am actively scumreading multiple actions Bell has undertaken this game and I'd love to talk to people about them or things you are town-reading Bell for.

these include:

(a) fluffy/nonexistent interactions with scum partners on D1[soft defenses etc]
(b) pushed multiple town elims with little re-evaluation
(c) tried to sow paranoia in an all town Cephrir-Titus-Pooky-GLion hood and then they started dying[Cephrir, Titus]
(d) did not try very hard to join the expert team on d1 (convenient because one of them was framed)
(e) not really being very solvy or showing any depth/nuance of thought - everything feels like a one dimensional caricature of a death tunnel [kill fire, kill SM, kill Pooky]

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Menalque, PookyTheMagicalBear, Cat Scratch Fever, Cephrir - group 2 bomb experts
VP Baltar - group 2 bomb defuser

Part of the reason I can't ever feel truly good about a Pooky townread is this

why would scum!VPB put himself in a hood with four townies one of whom has been scumreading and voting him all day

it just seems like it makes much more sense in the world where Pooky is scum and can decide to either:

1. blow up VPB and reap towncred for it all game
or
2. if consensus seems like they want to defuse, roll with consensus to make sure his buddy lives and gets a defuse

he used the wifom of "why would I give you a gun to shoot me" to make me re-evaluate on him.

he knew that if he didn't make me flip my read I would just hardpush him on D2 so he had to do something.

It was a gambit and it worked.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

dont deadsheep me tomm

blow up whoever gets nominated because that helps narrow poe

try to care tomm gl

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like you haven't even given a single reason for me to be scum other than

"Pooky misread me therefore he's scum"

which could apply if I am always right on your alignment but that's not even true because the last game we played together we were T/T and I misread you as scum when you were town;

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=88783

Who were you in this game?

stephen a smith

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like if people just want me to stop whining, shut up and accept the lim and they'll play the game tomm after I'm dead - I'll gladly stop posting and leave you all to it.

My play throughout the entirety of this game does not come from scum!me and I am happy to explain any stance, any post, any sequence I have done to the best of my ability if I can remember what I was thinking at the time.

Do you remember how you went from dwlee scum on day 3-4ish to vp scum on day 5?

I thought dwlee was mafia because their play in twilight felt openwolfy as in I thought they pushed mala-town dead and they were about to openwolf blow me up for lulz.

I re-evaluated on them after mala flipped scum and they became more townie than VPB for me.

It doesn't make a lot of sense to me that dwlee would be initial pusher on mala-scum to bus her down if they would then go and POE themselves in a 3 pool to blow up Andres.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

in that game I pushed Malcolm. he flipped scum. I got shot night one but I was added to a PT where I could talk with living people

you can see that I scumread Bell and wanted them to kill him in the PT:

viewtopic.php?t=88791&f=90&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

While I was rereading last night, I noticed that both VP Baltar and The Praetorian made the same incorrect assumption about the setup.

They both thought that we could nominate the bomb

defuser

during the day.

Spoiler: VP Baltar

wait so we have to lim AND defuse a bomb???? For some reason (read: not reading closely)

I thought the day play was just picking who defused the bomb.

well even if they were mandatory somehow, we'd just intentionally give bad info if we decide we want to fail all bombs by default

oh like use them as a double elim?

Spoiler: The Praetorian

Hi I'm not reading the first 7 pages

nom me for defuser ty

HEAL: the praetorian

also VOTE: catboi

mafia chooses the defuser each night. town votes to nominate the experts. there is no fully functional townkill because even if experts choose to detonate, they are only playing scum's wifom game.

Oh lol

I thought the system was eliminate + nominate defusers

and experts

> Why would they think we could nominate defusers during the day?
A: Initially, there was this incorrectly written rule that was later corrected. Cephrir pointed it out here.

once the execution vote has been hammered and the day is over, twilight starts.

the needed number of players who at that moment have the most nominations will be the night's bomb defusers.

i think this rule is supposed to say experts at the end

<snipped for brevity>

My working theory is that someone on the scumteam read the incorrect rule and was under the assumption that we (the town collective) could nominate defusers during the day. Then, what probably went down in the Scum PT is that they spent the pregame discussing strategies around who they should nominate as the

defuser

during the day.

> Why is this important?

Because MafiaScum's favorite bat (aka Mistyx slot) also made the same mistake.

i understand it's prolly not decided but

are we trying to put town or scum in the

defuser's

seat

catboi had to correct her in 132.

> Is it possible that Morning Tweet/Misty is just town who also misunderstood the rules?

I think it's very unlikely.

- catboi very clearly stated in 35 that scum choose the defusers. MT's first post was after that ---> I think MT came into the game with this preconceived notion that town can nom defusers due to talk in the Scum PT, and her brain automatically filtered out anything that was contrary.

- At best, Morning Tweet was not closely reading the game, which in a vacuum I'd say is lightly scummy.

- Even if the setup is confusing and not every townie understood the entire setup right away, the opening VC makes it very clear that you cannot nominate defusers, only experts.

- MT/Misty ISOs are also just scummy even if you don't think anything I'm writing here makes a lick of sense .

Just for fun, I went through everyone who has flipped town to see if they also explicitly made the same mistake about the setup. None of them did (although some were inconclusive):

• Lukewarm/fireisredsir - 71 (end of first line)
  
• catboi - 21 and again in 35
  
• Frogsterking - somewhat inconclusive, although I'd argue that he also understood how the setup worked from 54
  
• Andresvmb - inconclusive, his first post came way after setup confusion was cleared up
  
• Greeting - very top of 85 (in the bolded text)
  
• StrangeMatter - 55
  
• I can also add Titus to this list now - 36

---

btw, Menalque's opening post was:

i have a plan where we dont let any1 defuse any bombs because defusing bombs is boring

pooky obviously scum

also I wanna be bomb defuser

I originally wrote some stuff here where I wanted to lim Misty then Mena. But now I don't care, both can go

I really don't think CSF!mafia is capable of making this post.

Her scum!game is kind of on the awkward side of things engagement wise[from reading her iso in pokemon][yes i said i didn't read it but i lied sue me]

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

also like she has no reason to actually CC Mena when she did because he was going to die regardless of his claim really.

Instant CC there is just kind of silly to do if you're the deepwolf - esp to try to 1v1 down Mena.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

also I kind of doubt she makes up that story about jailkeeping you on night four immediately after you claim VT

that's like incredibly creative for a protective role that doesn't exist.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

also there's like no reason for scum!her to actually be asking me things?

she can just be like "oh i can't think of anything else i'll just vote for pooky cuz POE and put me at e-1 and enchant probably just hammers me" and she's almost all the way home

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I suck at reading Enchant

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

what's weird is we have this knot of people in the POE townreading eachother

Pooky seems convinced it's Bell, no suspicion of Enchant/Andante
Bell seems convinced it's Pooky, no suspicion of Enchant/Andante
Andante was pushing Enchant, TRs Pooky virtually no suspicion there
Enchant thinks ... ??

why is whoever is town in this group so convinced they have it right when I am finding decent reasons to doubt a scumread on everybody

I am not convinced it's bell

it's between bell/enchant for me with a tiny outside chance of dwlee-scum masterminding everything.

andante/CSF are the only people I'm like super sure are town.

My win condition is to convince everyone I'm town, lim in bell/enchant and hope to hell Dwlee is town too.

I recognize everyone suspects me for ???? reasons that I don't think have much to do with my play and just an overall fear of my scum game in general. [I think there are so many reasons why I have to be town that it should be kind of obvious for everyone - I am fairly sure I was shot at on N1 because it literally doesn't make sense for the shot to go anywhere else on that night that was protected. It also makes very little sense for me to try to get into the top townread bomb squad to chill with andante/catboi if I have a bomb rigger that I'm using to frame 4 people]

That's fine. Lim me today and make the decision between Bell/Enchant tomm if that's how it needs to go down. But don't let Bell keep getting away with deathtunneling cuz it's easy and comfortable for him to deathtunnel. Look at how hard I interrogate the shit out of Bell in Death Curse before I let him off the hook. Actually give a shit because you are not going to be happy if you end up losing to Bell!scum who decided to lol-cat shitpush only townies the entire game just because "tone-read". Tone can be faked it's not even that hard.

I'm not saying deadsheep me and yeet Bell for sure - I'm not that sure he's scum - I just think he's gotten a free pass for too long and this game might not be as easy as yeet Enchant auto-win.

But maybe I'm wrong and like it really is that easy - I dunno. DYODD.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I’ll listen if you’re town Pooky. Sorry for misreading you if I did.I don’t really think I’ve been lazy this game tho. I just tuned out after reaching my solve and took actions that reflect that solve. It’s not comparable to death curse because I just stopped solving when there were a bunch of question marks left because we needed a whole lot of misses to lose.
And still almost lost!

um what would you even be listening to me for

i flip town

you death tunnel enchant tomm[this is true regardless of your role pm]

there's nothing for you to listen to me for.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like it's fine if you're town and you misread me - like I misread you too so we're even I guess?

it's just a game just play for fun.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

isnt that even more evidence that a nightkill on me was blocked night one rofl

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like VPB fucking knows he shot me night one and it was blocked and he slipped it to andres and then tried to walk it back omg this is ridiculous atp

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i am locktown to andres BECAUSE he literally saved me from dying

this is scum TMI

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like r u seriously thinking that I'm scum because VPB tried to TR me when dude was obviopusly going down like wtf rofl what even is this

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Was just thinking about the scum nightkill situation and I wanted to write this out.[Assuming Andante!Town - which from the dayplay, the bussing, the faked guilties, the rigged bomb spec probably is close to 100% atp]

We know scum started 1 NK, got 2 NKs from VPB defusals, and 1 NK from GLion/Andante then +.5 NK from Glion.

which puts us at 4 scum nightkills.

We have 1 used on Greeting and 1 used on Cephrir which means scum can have max 2 banked at beginning of the night.

If Bell/Enchant/Andante are scum, they can blow up GuiltyLion and shoot someone - that opens today with 5 players alive; mislim me, they go to 4 -> Blow up someone/shoot someone game over -> 2 Game over.

If scum is not in Bell/Enchant/Andante - for example Dwlee/CSF/Pooky - this is still the correct play to accelerate to elo today because there's no reason to expect Glion to survive - there is literally no reason to save the nightkill.

So the only reason scum don't pursue this line of play is if one of their nightkills was blocked somewhere along the way and they're actually sitting at [1.5] kills tonight and they need the extra mislim. (for example if Andy town then 4.5 kills -> .5 kills means they can't nightkill tonight)

Now take a look at when a kill might've actually been blocked;

N1: GuiltyLion(Mena) Pooky(Andres) Frogster(CSF)
N2: Bell(Andres) Bell(CSF)
N3: Greeting Killed
N4: Andante(CSF)
N5: Mena(CSF)
N6: Cephrir Killed


Bell says that I tried to kill him on N2 - but this theory makes very little sense if you actually think about scum strategy - why would any scum decide to SKIP shooting on N1 and shoot instead on N2?

It makes sense in exactly one scenario - if you are trying to frame the defuser on N1 - as in trying to make it look like the player who defused on N1 successfully is actually mafia then maybe you skip the n1 kill to pretend it got blocked and then shoot on n2.[We know scum didn't do this because VPB is mafia and it doesn't make sense to frame your own defuser - if anything scum definitely SKIP nightkilling on N2 because if you NK on N2 you make your own defuser look shady as fuck]

I think the reason the scum shot on N3 is to make it look like VPB defusing twice N1/2 gave them a NK and they used it on N3 -> which supports scum shooting on N1 on N1 and getting blocked somewhere.

There's little reason for scum to shoot either GLion or Frogster on N1 - ergo I was the target of being NKed on N1 or the scum nightkill on Andante(n4) was blocked.

I strongly believe now that I was the target on N1 because I don't think scum decide to not kill in that scenario[remember the ideal situation for scum is nightkills on N1/N3 that makes it look like VPB is town defuser and scum are following standard nk procedure]

Now why does scum decide to shoot me of all people on N1:

1) The top group of townreads is being set up with a rigged bomb - literally no reason to nightkill in that group.

2) I'm in the second group of townreads and I am the most skeptical person of all of them in terms of scumreading VPB.

3) I'm kind of a pain in the ass for them to deal with and VPB does not really want to continue keeping me at bay and he knows I can readflip on a dime if he fucks up anywhere down the line - this has the added bonus of freezing my reads in place on him.

4) It looks really really good for scum!VPB if I get shot after he convinces me to let him live because why would scum!VPB shoot town!pooky after town!pooky lets him live?