Legends of the Buisness Company [Staplers Take Over the World]

[T-Bone]

If you have time to lean you have time to clean.

[T-Bone]

I am issuing challenge in
(expired on 2023-01-20 06:18:02)

Basically confirmed town.

[T-Bone]

T-bone is not included in that call-out

What no you better call me out

[T-Bone]

Quick OOC: Still on my honeymoon, I will be home on Sunday. Probably entirely unavailable Saturday. Don't worry my wife already married me, what's she gonna do if I occasionally pull out my phone to play Mafia???

[T-Bone]

Try hard Furtive though

[T-Bone]

Try hard Furtive though

Shall I go and get all the mod mentions. I think 2 of them were Aristeia so it might just be them lol

I don't know what this means?

[T-Bone]

If you're trying to dumbtell ngl it's working

[T-Bone]

I feel like ten people have mentioned firebringer because they are familiar with him and feel more open to including him in the conversation

If you mention He Who Must Not Be Mentioned it's basically a scum claim.

[T-Bone]

Team Single Braincell challenges Team Not Cheaters

me and pooky worked together to decide on this challenge

Come at the King best not miss.

[T-Bone]

I'm actually pretty insulted that you're challenging me but not 1v1ing me.

[T-Bone]

Team Single Braincell challenges Team Not Cheaters

me and pooky worked together to decide on this challenge

Come at the King best not miss.

bus your teammate and we wont double tap you immediately

I was just gonna treat Cakez as town because of our shared PT but I hadn't even gotten that far yet how dare you

[T-Bone]

Are we just power limming Cakez? I'm down to do it for the memes.

Game wise I don't have a read on Cakez or anyone really. There's between 1 and 13 players who have done things I am concerned about but I want to give them space to either continue to do so or not do so.

Plus I'm still shitposting anyway and will probably continue to do so for some time.

[T-Bone]

Gamma are you the one that convinced Pooky to challenge or the other way around? This is important.

No I did when I dared Gamma to call me out. Then she didn't what a coward.

[T-Bone]

Ok I'll say it: tbones reaction to this is ass.

You have the power to do something about it!

[T-Bone]

Gamma are you the one that convinced Pooky to challenge or the other way around? This is important.

No I did when I dared Gamma to call me out. Then she didn't what a coward.

I said I sussed Cakez, Pooky said he'd be down for it, and I acted

Sorry this was a joke, not meant to be relevant to your legitimate answer

[T-Bone]

Here's what bothers me with slight paranoia.

Enchant laid out a plan for coin use earlier. Whether it could have been done or not isn't relevant to this point I'm about to make.

Gamma was the one to point out the coin related flaw in the plan. I thought this was okay.

But it's weird to me that Gamma then makes a power play that conveniently grabs coins.

I say paranoia because I feel like scum wouldn't want to make the first challenge and risk accidentally getting themselves yeeted. So I'm like 25/75 here for the power play coin grab. I wanted to mention this in case I feel like I need to revisit Gamma later.

[T-Bone]

I am left in a spot where I lose my sounding board if Cakez is limmed so I'm not eager to do it. I find neighborhood PTs helpful for my scum hunting. That leaves me with limming Pooky perhaps.

[T-Bone]

Because I'm shading Pooky obviously

[T-Bone]

I mean at what point did I say I think Pooky is scum? You're trying to make a false equivalence of my posts and I don't like it.

[T-Bone]

I think Shirou is just scum. There's no reason to assume just because I explained why I think Gamma could be town or that I don't want to lim my PT partner that it has to make Pooky scum.

[T-Bone]

like fuck who does this shit even work on

shirou trying to incite a t-bone vote for me is pretty lulzy do you always openwolf so blatantly

Wow Pooky beat me to it

[T-Bone]

Ah...
Ok. I can see this line of thought coming from you as a villager and it's more helpful than just barking at me.

I would like to go back to my original concern though, I don't really get why your problem with shirou is a problem. Pressuring someone for not voting a suspect seems fine to me so like I don't see the problem?

You understand that I have one of three options, not one of thirteen, right? I didn't say I suspect Pooky, I was walking through my thoughts on what I should do. If I had the choice around the time I made that post I wouldn't have been voting any of Cakez, Gamma, or Pooky. But that's not the reality we live in. I can either vote one of those three or decline to vote.

For me discussing the possibility openly with other players had value. In this case the value ended up being Shirou outting themselves. There's no reason anyone should have said I suspected Pooky because all I literally did was a quick process of elimination about how I might vote.

[T-Bone]

I had to remove a bunch of quote nesting because lol more than 10 quoted so you make need to click on the post to see all the context

[T-Bone]

ngl I would absolutely bus cakez like this so I don't get why people are like "Gamma wouldn't do this as scum"

For what it's worth my comment was not about you specifically but just the in general feeling of scum likely not wanting to do what you did.

[T-Bone]

What the fuck am I coming back to?

With the caveat that I haven't read anything since my last post whoever did the challenge gets a few scumpoints from me. Going back now.

hi there I'm the challenge issuer

The presented reasoning in 299 is thin but has an internal consistency so I don't object on the substance yet.

I am left in a spot where I lose my sounding board if Cakez is limmed so I'm not eager to do it. I find neighborhood PTs helpful for my scum hunting. That leaves me with limming Pooky perhaps.

Has Cakez been useful in the neighborhood so far?

Conversely, I would like to ask Cakez about the impression he's gathered of T-Bone from the PT.

Pooky seems town.

I posted we aint cheaters, then Cakez said we're not cheating. Then I told him I would treat him as town because I find scumhunting the PT a very unfun way to play for reasons I can explain if you really want me to but aren't related to anyone's roles. That's the extent of our postings.

[T-Bone]

You could tell us what Penguin said. You have access to the same information.

[T-Bone]

Gamma, whatever. ok?

Put that on his tombstone if we flip him lolololol

[T-Bone]

What if Furtive being entertaining is a scumtell, because he wasn't at all entertaining in my last game with him? :Thinking face:

Big brain takes

[T-Bone]

i will literallt self vote and get myself elimmed if everyonenpromises me to kill shirou afterwards

I mean the first part is whatever to me but if nothing changes I'm in on the second part.

[T-Bone]

Felt like a combo of the last two to me ngl

[T-Bone]

I just need to ask a simple question. What were you expecting me to do?

[T-Bone]

Like here's my perspective. Selfishly I don't want to lim Cakez. It has nothing to do with what I think his alignment is, of which I really don't have any information to determine that anyway, it has to do with my comfort level of turning a PT into a potential hostile environment. You probably don't know this but I've had some uncomfortable experiences in PTs due to conflict over scumhunting or disagreements so I try to avoid them in PTs. I'd rather have conflict in the game thread because that feels like a better venue to me. It's also just less stressful and less distracting to treat my neighbor as town.

I just need to ask a simple question. What were you expecting me to do?

I was expecting you to vote

you still haven't voted

It is unlikely that I will. Now what?? You still haven't voted and frankly I don't think you have a good reason to be on me for not voting while also not voting.

At this point I think Shirou was looking for someone else to vote Pooky so that they'd have permission to do so. Why if Shirou feels so confidently about a Pooky vote that they are still demanding I do it...Shirou has yet to lay down the vote? Surely if Pooky is a scumread, even a light one...well Pooky is only one of four options. Am I a scumread? You have two potential scumreads out of 4 options and aren't voting? Why aren't you coming for me? I mean you're gonna miss if you do but the lack of conviction screams scum.

[T-Bone]

Enchant is the hero we don't deserve

[T-Bone]

I'm not going to be voting pooky this phase. I agree with two much of what he's saying.

I'm not voting gamma.

So that leaves me with tbone and cakez and neither of them seems to be really interested in making a compelling argument why they're town.

Bruh I won't be town casing myself so if that's your bar place your vote now. I'm very open with my thoughts so if you have specific questions please ask instead of randomly shading me about not seeming townie every so often. This is now the second time I can distinctly remember you doing this.

[T-Bone]

Ok I'll say it: tbones reaction to this is ass.

Here's the first one so I can say I have a receipt.

I get that Shea has to vote in a narrow window of players so please take my annoyance with the appropriate levity.

[T-Bone]

(note by compelling argument I don't mean literally town case themselves, I mean the aforementioned 'doing townie stuff.'

Why does no one in this game want to do townie stuff.

I'm sorry! Disregard the previous

[T-Bone]

To be clear I thought Shea was literally asking for a town case in which the way he phrased it.

[T-Bone]

What the fuck am I coming back to?

With the caveat that I haven't read anything since my last post whoever did the challenge gets a few scumpoints from me. Going back now.

i feel scum is more likely to make this post than town

I have in my mental notes that I am leaning Haschel as scum but not for this post. Was it his opener? I gotta go back and get the receipt.

[T-Bone]

HC is posting a bit in our point but has yet to post a real thing in this thread. Interesante.

Yep, I was waiting for people to get the spam bullshit out of their system.

I am a little curious why Fen would jump straight to wanting to challenge, but if he's going where I would go then I'm willing to not press him that.

Yeah it was this one. It almost seems like a post he was gonna put into a PT. Anyone else get that vibe?

It's not as damning since we have team PTs but it was weird to me.

[T-Bone]

Well I was both discussing it with you and then quoting the post so would then go back and grab the post I wanted

[T-Bone]

UNVOTE:
I'd like someone to swap Not Cheaters for Hyperpost Meta once the minigame ends
I'll do it myself if my team ranks the highest.

I haven't given an order yet cause lol mobile so assuming it's not against the rules of the mini game I will copy someone's list. Preferably Enchant but Gamma/Pooky/others is fine as long as I'm not copying Shirou?

[T-Bone]

UNVOTE:
I'd like someone to swap Not Cheaters for Hyperpost Meta once the minigame ends
I'll do it myself if my team ranks the highest.

I haven't given an order yet cause lol mobile so assuming it's not against the rules of the mini game I will copy someone's list. Preferably Enchant but Gamma/Pooky/others is fine as long as I'm not copying Shirou?

if the mod doesn't let you do a simple "I'll do this person's list" submission I'm willing to post mine in-thread for you to use

Yeah fuck it that's fine. Makes my life easier.

[T-Bone]

Can you translate those two posts with player names?

[T-Bone]

Ngl I thought without hydras I could avoid being in another game that set posting records so I feel you a little

[T-Bone]

if we want to stall for longer we can negate this challenge and do something vs. Board of Misdirectors
Technically Team Swap could also work but I'd like Single Braincell to be swapped instead of Not Cheaters in that case. The idea behind swapping out Not Cheaters was to allow the proper Pooky v. Shirou thunderdome, I'd rather keep T-bone and Cakez in the pool if someone from this challenge has to stay

Tbh if I were to stay in I'd want it to be against Shirou's team. Otherwise my preference would be to be swapped out.

[T-Bone]

T-Bone what do your reads look like

Roughly I have Enchant as clearly town, a few players I'm leaning town on like Gamma, Pooky, Cakez who I am treating as town, null for a lot of slots that I just haven't been able to interact with. Null lean for slots I may have interacted with but don't have an alignment impression on, like Shea, Furtive, you now. A lean scum on Haschel but like slightly, and then I think Shirou is clearly scum.

Unfortunately I develop my reads via interactions and I haven't had them as much as I would like so far. I'll be able to develop my reads better as the game goes on and the players in my null spaces become real players.

[T-Bone]

Yeah? I just understand Enchant as a player I think. Enchant posts a lot of nonsequiters that I think throws people off, but when Enchant doesn't do that there's a clear thought process in their posts.

[T-Bone]

I mean I don't really get your game and if not for you posting your town reads like 10 pages ago I'd have no idea where you stand. Like do you think Alisae is scum? The majority of your posts are interactions with them. And then I'd like to know generally what are you getting out of people when you're asking questions? With the exception of Alisae I can't recall any specific instances where you've asked a player something and then followed up on the question or made some sort of indication you were affected. If we strip out your Alisae interactions it looks like busy work tbh. I know who you think are town but I do t know who you think are scum.

Which to be fair is more information than most of the player list has offered.

[T-Bone]

T-Bone what do your reads look like

Hi Cakez!
Can you elaborate on both Freedom and Furtive?

Actually now you're strangely mirroring Shea what's happening????

[T-Bone]

The last 48 hours in this game are mostly a blur so it's not like a criticism it's more like a weird thing in my head of blended posting

[T-Bone]

I have null interactions with you cause as far as I know this is our first interaction.

[T-Bone]

I mentioned Furtive cause he was the only other player I could remember that I noticed did something.

[T-Bone]

I play Mafia like Schrodinger, a player isn't in the game until I notice them.

[T-Bone]

T-Bone what do your reads look like

Roughly I have Enchant as clearly town, a few players I'm leaning town on like Gamma, Pooky, Cakez who I am treating as town, null for a lot of slots that I just haven't been able to interact with. Null lean for slots I may have interacted with but don't have an alignment impression on, like Shea, Furtive, you now. A lean scum on Haschel but like slightly, and then I think Shirou is clearly scum.

Unfortunately I develop my reads via interactions and I haven't had them as much as I would like so far. I'll be able to develop my reads better as the game goes on and the players in my null spaces become real players.

Can you explain some reads like why you townread Enchant and more importantly why Shirou is "clearly scum"

There's no way you missed me doing both those things? The Shirou thing is well documented and if you scroll down from the post you quoted I'm pretty sure someone asked me to explain Enchant and I did.

[T-Bone]

I submitted what Gamma gave me yesterday.

[T-Bone]

I think I've made my thoughts on alisae very clear.

Yes I did know that

Well. Everyone's made their thoughts on everyone else extremely clear. Should we vote someone out? Nahhh. Just spam up the thread ad infinitum and eternally swap the teams of the challenges around while D1 exceeds 100 pages. Oh cool

At most two players can spend enough coins to swap teams so this fatalism makes no sense.

[T-Bone]

I mean I wanted to focus on your nonsensical take so yes that's all I have to say.

[T-Bone]

I don't know what that has to do with mech, why did you say that? Am I somehow speculating on the mech of the game right now???

[T-Bone]

Wow Furtive a little push back and you lose it.

[T-Bone]

I have literally not been here, but you know that. I've still produced more than you have. You can't receive votes but I can, do something about it. You're acting like caught scum trolololol

[T-Bone]

I've caused two scum to get tilted and lose it while barely being here trololololol

[T-Bone]

Furtive complains no one wants anything to happen, but won't vote me despite "doing nothing" and "not getting town points". You and Shirou are literally playing the same cowardly game.

[T-Bone]

Anyway I really fail to see why any of Furtive attacking me for not wanting to give myself money comes from town?
Like, I could imagine that might being perplexing but to imply that it's wolf indicative is just wild.

I think you rightly should have not wanted Shirou to get coins?

[T-Bone]

I've caused two scum to get tilted and lose it while barely being here trololololol

Well no

One at max (who?)

And yeah this game isn't Treestump Express you can't just call me scum and get away with it. The bill always comes due, like Mordo says

I'd trade my mislim for your scumflip but you're not willing to risk it so don't talk about bills coming due.

[T-Bone]

Let's recap, I asked Furtive why he was being fatalistic about everyone changing the teams when only two players can do it and he loses it and starts crying about how I'm not doing anything instead of answering what I thought was a pretty innocuous question.

[T-Bone]

Drunk posting got nothing on jetlagged posting suck it Pooky/Cakez/et al

[T-Bone]

Come at the King best don't miss.

[T-Bone]

My preference, not that we can enforce it...is to make Shirou spend coins first before Alisae does.

[T-Bone]

No you should definitely wait for Shirou. Like we make Shirou pick one of those two teams, because it's your choice, and if Shirou doesn't you pick your own team and we lim Shirou. I don't know how comfortable you or anyone else is with that, or if that makes sense.

[T-Bone]

I guess I am implicitly trusting Alisae now ftr, but I actually believe Alisae when they said they were trying not to get coins because of Shirou, because that admission came unprompted as far as I can tell.

[T-Bone]

Though Furtive's reaction to that brings a question to my mind. Did everyone else rank their own team as #1 (except presumably scum)?

[T-Bone]

Force challenge (750) put two teams into a challenge, without having to be one of them
Negate Challenge (800) cancels current challenge, current challenge cannot be re-enacted outside of ELo
Immunity (1000) cannot be voted out in current challenge
Team Swap (500) change one team in a current challenge for another
Double Voter (400) gain 1 extra vote, not stackable
Triple Voter (900) gain 2 extra votes, not stackable
Loved (400) take one more vote to lim
Messenger (200) send someone a message in private
Hated (700) make another player take 1 less vote to lim
Team Player (250) give an item you're currently holding to someone else
Scum Mystery Box (cost varies) usable by town only, let's scum pick an item and price for you

some details may be lacking but I was aiming for maximum brevity here

Spoiler:
All suck, but Messenger and Team Player suck deeper.

I have no idea, why you even could buy it. There's NO item worth sending to any teammate (no really, why) and messenger...
Eh. Like why...

I know I am a biased party atm but swapping teams in the challenges and forcing challenges sounds like pretty good utility for town.

[T-Bone]

Or we can not yolochallenges.

... Wow. Did i really write that

Scummiest thing you've ever said amirite???

[T-Bone]

I am pre-flipping a bit but I think the challenge has worked out fine even though I currently think all involved are town enough, because I feel like not being on the chopping block made some feel bold about their position in the game and revealed themselves as scum in a way they might not have if they were at risk. I'm thinking Shirou in particular if they end up scum, but potentially Furtive too if he ends up scum. I might be projecting on Furtive a bit, but I think what Shirou tried earlier in the phase with me was risky considering the situation.

[T-Bone]

Or we can not yolochallenges.

this is always written by a villlager btw.
Like we were all clear that the guy is a villager but if we weren't

this gets posted by a wolf like what, literally never? And Def not a Wolf!Enchant

This is specific to Enchant, referencing that Enchant likes to yolohammer. I think Enchant would post this no matter what tbh the take away here is the self awareness

[T-Bone]

Somebody talked about using the message function to force people to burn through their money but I can't remember who or where and searching is not helping. Does anybody else remember?

No idea but whoever that person is let me know and they're going into the townbin

Gamma I think

[T-Bone]

i'm so happy i can hard ignore pooky/gamma nonsense rn you've no idea

if i get scum today i want many town points from everyone

please and thank you

Great you can "get your town points" by spending your coins the way Alisae suggests, by swapping in one of the two teams they would prefer.

[T-Bone]

I am locked into Shirou right now so I don't get what you're referring to exactly. Can you provide examples of what you mean? You can wait until after Alisae answers if you feel that you need Alisae to answer for themselves first.

[T-Bone]

I like i just looked back and i see shirou was in the "possible 2 wolves here" pile but i guess i didn't clock it really because again it seems to me like they've been on the same side in most arguments so i am actually not sure why i didn't notice this at the time because that read feels weird too.

There are 13 other players and I've sorted at least half of them into a lean town or scum so that's a completely incorrect statement of my play Furtive and I feel like you should know better.

[T-Bone]

Weird mobile quote lololol strikes again

[T-Bone]

I guess I will say that I have been locked into that Shirou read that I definitely did just take Alisae at face value when they revealed they didn't want to give Shirou coins. I will go back and take a look at their progression overall though. I am very quick to just let people who say things I agree with be.

[T-Bone]

mobile quote feature strikes again

Real talk I'm glad it's not just me cause I feel like I suffer alone sometimes

[T-Bone]

Also I disagree that this game has been spammy or unreadable. There has been some things I glazed over but I think as a whole we've done a good job at not having multi.page back and forth fit fests. There has been only one time I've had to come back to a ton of pages personally.

[T-Bone]

Gonna do a bit of busy work real quick to see where I'm at and then what I need to change. I feel like I could have put everyone above Alisae into town lean (and they functionally are). When I wrote it out as all town it didn't feel right. If I'm wrong here it's likely on Cakez, because I feel biased, and I guess Alisae? If I'm missing any scum it's probably in the null section. I know I see STD and Norwee posting a lot more than Titus or Penguin but in my mind they've done nothing remarkable except that one random time Norwee decided not to read my posts. I have no idea where I could be wrong in the scum section because I don't think there's a lot going on between those three players. Anyone below Alisae I either wouldn't mind to or like to yeet but especially the last two in the perfect world where I controlled the challenge.

Spoiler: Reads List 1.0

Town Lean
Enchant
Gamma

Null Lean
Cakez
Pooky
Shea
Alisae

Null
STD
Norwee
PP
Titus

Scum Lean
Haschel
Furtive
Shirou

[T-Bone]

For full transparency nothing ground breaking is happening in our PT between me and Cakez for me to justify what I'm doing with his slot beyond my personal preference at the moment.

[T-Bone]

I know I see STD and Norwee posting a lot more than Titus or Penguin but in my mind they've done nothing remarkable except that one random time Norwee decided not to read my posts.

wowowowow

i've posted so many jokes and none of them have landed?

Subtweeting me more is the way to my heart <3

[T-Bone]

i guess my question for people saying i'm unremarkable or not worthwhile is what are you doing to sort me

I know zero of your reads so that's why you're in the unremarkable area for me. Like maybe that's on me personally, but the people I have sorted above town and even below scum I generally have a picture in my mind as to what they think about some players at least.

[T-Bone]

Not when I got to that post you didn't, I react to em as I see em.

I also don't literally mean you've never posted reads, I just mean in my minds eye nothing stands out to me as "oh that's a thing STD is working on".

There are two things about me in Mafia. I play stream of conscious and I have main character syndrome. The only notes I take are in thread lolol

[T-Bone]

Also, sometimes when my phone is in my pocket I play the mafia game in my head

[T-Bone]

I support your invocation of Monty hall freak the haters

[T-Bone]

T-bone why am i waiting to swap again

I mean I thought we should force Shirou to spend coins but I acknowledge we can't enforce it. You do you.

[T-Bone]

VOTE: Furtive

[T-Bone]

what are your reads, cakez?

enchant town
gamma town
alisae kinda town
t bone town
shirou town

haschel scummish? townish?
norwe idk

penguin kinda scummy
std scumzors
pooky scummish
furtive nullscumish
titus/freedom scummish

Is anyone not listed null?

p sure I listed everyone?

They are literally asking for reasons!

[T-Bone]

Holmes under the Hammer Challenges Hyperpost Meta

Team wolf pack challenges board of misdirectors

god ddamn it

Team wolf pack challenges board of misdirectors

god ddamn it

hahahahahahahah

Ahahahahahahaha

[T-Bone]

VOTE: Shirou

I'm gonna put this down. I don't think I'm wrong on Shirou in the same way I went wrong on Furtive. I'm gonna produce a 2.0 reads later.

[T-Bone]

Also I've never heard of DADV what does it mean and why is the term being used? I guess this is to Gamma.

[T-Bone]

I mean what does that phrase mean? Sorry I literally never heard it used.

[T-Bone]

It means a lack of activity suggests the current wagon is in town
I think it’s a fallacy tbf, there’s certainly reasons for scum to be paralyzed whilst one of their number is being wagoned.

Lack of activity? Overnight though?

Yeah that's kind of a weird call out.

[T-Bone]

i miss furtive already

Spoiler: signs i should have seen furtive as town

made you look

Scum claim XD

[T-Bone]

What?

[T-Bone]

Not at you, at before you

[T-Bone]

Don’t you wolfread me and Shirou?

...Yes, yes I do.

Vote: Alisae

[/quote]
Lol he had to be reminded of his scum reads.

[T-Bone]

Dammit I kept the broken quote!

[T-Bone]

After saying Enchant was the best vote and asking Shirou to switch. If anyone is tempted to say "well he's not keeping up" he knew enough that Shirou has the coins to change the challenge....but didn't know enough that he was scumreading Alisae and possibly Shirou?

[T-Bone]

You had Enchant at the top of your town list. So, like I get having tunnel vision for your top scumread. I don't get forgetting your top town read?

[T-Bone]

Sorry let me rephrase, Haschel didn't rank his town reads, I meant the top line of his readslist.

[T-Bone]

I am sceptical that all 4 players are town and wasting swaps d1 is kind of... Waste

Wasting is waste

Then why aren't you doing anything to figure out which of those four is scum, if any? I just looked back at your posts and while you are voting for Pooky you didn't give any reasoning and you haven't mentioned him at all since post 807. SirCakez doesn't get a mention after 1491. You have only addressed T-Bone a single time in 1721, and your last interactions with Gamma were a coinflip to see if you trusted her read and a reply in 1713 that was about a list Gamma posted but nothing about Gamma herself.

I'm presuming you mean this and then the next few in your ISO?

[T-Bone]

Does anyone else have 75+ posts in their hood? Cakez and I have like 15 posts.

[T-Bone]

Whoops sorry Shirou, Haschel and I beat you to it. Regardless of him forgetting his other scumreads the progression on Enchant is very clearly in the thread.

[T-Bone]

Okay I'd like to hear about that in some general terms.

[T-Bone]

Even if he disliked Enchant more from the recent convo it's kinda hard to buy he would dislike him the most out of [Alisae, Shirou, Enchant] so quickly

You're misrepresenting what I said; I said Enchant was the best vote out of [Enchant/Furtive/Cakez/T-Bone]

Ummmmmm this is Day 2 dawg

[T-Bone]

Even if he disliked Enchant more from the recent convo it's kinda hard to buy he would dislike him the most out of [Alisae, Shirou, Enchant] so quickly

You're misrepresenting what I said; I said Enchant was the best vote out of [Enchant/Furtive/Cakez/T-Bone]

Ummmmmm this is Day 2 dawg

Okay and?

The Enchant vote I was referring to was the one he made over Alisae and Shirou. Which Shirou was pointing out. Ugh I guess they can't be scum together huh

[T-Bone]

Of these options I'd rather

vote: Enchant

.

Holmes under the Hammer vs Not Cheaters 1.11

Enchant (1): Haschel Cedricson,

furtiveglance (7 - Elimination) : Alisae, Thestatusquo, PookytheMagicalBear, Titus, NorwegianboyEE, T-Bone, Save The Dragons

SirCakez (2) : Enchant, furtiveglance,
T-Bone (0) :

Not Voting (4): Gamma Emerald, Shirou, PenguinPower, SirCakez,


With 14 Alive, It Takes 7 to Eliminate.
Deadline for challenge is (expired on 2023-02-02 15:45:00)

Mod Notes: Searching for replacement for Penguinpower

Okay no that vote was in Day 1
What the fuck TBone?

Lol fuck me I don't know why I equated the post where Haschel said Enchant was the best vote as a revote this day phase. My bad.

[T-Bone]

I think that explains why I felt like we were talking past each other.

[T-Bone]

@Cakez, T-Bone, Enchant

- please posts your lists if you got them.
If I read correctly I don't think Cakez posted a list and T-Bone used Gamma's list?

Yeah I literally submitted Gamma's list cause I was still on vacation and just wanted it done. I can go back and copy and paste if you want though?

[T-Bone]

Ideally we either lim Shirou or force Shirou to use up the coins.

[T-Bone]

if we all just guard then theres no way scum can steal flags unless theres a scum-scum team. i dont see the point of doing anything different unless we all agree some team doesnt deserve points for w/e reason.

Did you read rule XIV?

Oh also
I did the math
someone is lying with their list

If we tally everything up we get (also assuming that my math isn't wrong because I did most of this before cakez posted his list)
Holmes 41
Hyperpost 42
Johnson 42
Braincell 43
Board 47
NC 59
Wolf Pack 61

I think whoever is a wolf had a NOTABLE gap between Hyperpost and Holmes. a VERY notable gap of probably at least 4+

Did you count me? Scum blocked my team.

[T-Bone]

Okay then it makes your numbers wrong lol

[T-Bone]

Well I don't see anyone else mentioning this in thread so how was I supposed to know?

[T-Bone]

I was just asking because I have no idea if you included us or not. Your post read to me very sarcastic with the elispes as if I was supposed to know this info already.

[T-Bone]

Did you read rule XIV?

Scum team can select one team per round to be blocked, the team blocked cannot defend for this round. This will not be publicly disclosed on what team cannot defend even to the team.


like this doesnt matter - even if the scum decide to make someone vulnerable no attack can happen on that vulnerable pair unless 2 people both decide to attack them and that doesnt happen unless there's a scum-scum pair

I must be misinterpreting then because I thought it only took one person to decide to do this.

[T-Bone]

I constantly find my reading comprehension in the toilet.

[T-Bone]

Complaining about the new forum look is scum indicative ngl

[T-Bone]

VOTE: Shirou

I'm surprised you kept yourself in ngl

[T-Bone]

Because I think Shirou is scum, and I expected self-perseveration?

[T-Bone]

Yeah maybe. I don't know. The Titus/psyche team feels like low hanging fruit atm since those slots have been mostly absent, so like even if swapping out Enchant is a net positive, swapping in the low hanging team doesn't do anything for me. Even if one of them are scum, I don't feel like we've gotten anything significant from either slot this game. I think I might have been more impressed if Shirou chose a team with a slot he was fighting with, like Shea. If Shirou is scum, Titus/psyche is the coward's move that makes sense from a scum perspective.

Did you two agree on this in your PT, or was it solely Shirou's decision?

[T-Bone]

I mean I thought Furtive was scum, and I think Shirou is scum? I'm a pretty active voter I think.

[T-Bone]

I will say tho T-Bone I am anxiously waiting for read list 2.0

I've been thinking about it. I wanted to mull over how I feel about slots in the middle some more.

[T-Bone]

I put some more thought into this list. Somehow I am less happy with this than I was with 1.0 lol. My feeling on Enchant and Gamma haven't changed. I reluctantly moved Shea up, the reason being that I think Shea is clearly playing on his own and I'm getting from him that he's trying to solve the game.

The rest of my reads are where they are because of Shirou. Not only do I think Shirou is scum, Shirou is like a keystone read for me. Shirou has had a lot of interactions with slots that I think his flip would help me bring clarity as to whether I am right or not. Now that's a selfish way to look at it if he flips town, so I've grouped my reads thusly and I'll explain them real quick. I have Pooky in null because I think if Shirou flips town then I have to have my doubts. But if Shirou flips scum than Pooky is town forever on every game on this site for the rest of time. I kept Alisae in null because of my initial reaction to Shirou swapping Enchant out for the LHF team. I've kept Cakez here to keep Cakez here. I've kept Norwee here because I put STD down as they feel unaligned, so if STD is scum Norwee is not and vise versa. I've kept Titus here as a slot that still hasn't produced anything.

I feel like my scumreads are bad, because I feel like if Shirou is scum he can't be scum with STD, Haschel, or Psyche. But if Shirou is town, then I almost think those three are the only scum possibilities. The confusion I had over what Haschel did and when, and how Shirou reacted to it (by piling on with my incorrect line of thinking), got me thinking. Because here were my top two scum reads clearly opposed to one another and not on the same page. So I don't think they can be scum together. Honestly my instinct after Psyche's last post was to do what Pooky just did. I was fine with Psyche's trolling, in fact I found it hilarious. It's just when I look at it Psyche could easily still be in my nulls but my gut says otherwise? I also don't think with the way Psyche is playing that he'd be aligned with Shirou. Because in my mind Shirou!scum would have tried to go after someone he was calling scum and not a team that isn't here. Shirou backing off of Alisae makes sense as scum. They are having private conversations and its clearly working on Alisae and if I'm honest Alisae is in Shirou's pocket. I have STD here partly as process of elimination, partly because I think STD makes sense specifically with Haschel and Psyche, and partly because StD more than anyone is really shopping for eliminations. I don't think STD and Shirou are scum together because if Shirou is scum I think he would have to engage StD more considering StD keeps voting for him. I think scum players know better than to ignore each other's slots too much. I don't know this is just a gut feeling thinking about their interactions.

What I really hate about what I've done is that I've eliminated a ton of potential teammates with Shirou!scum lol. I just feel very stuck in where I have people right now but I did need to get my thoughts out. I do feel pretty good about Cakez and above on my list I just don't like feeling like that if that makes sense. I also just feel very stuck on this Shirou read in a way I can't shake. I don't know why people are backing off Shirou, this argument and progression with Alisae doesn't look good to me. Alisae looks so pocketed to me right now its distressing.

Spoiler: Reads 2.0

Town Lean
Enchant
Gamma
Shea

Null Lean
Pooky
Alisae
Cakez
Norwee
Titus

Scum Lean
STD
Psyche
Haschel
Shirou

Spoiler: Reads List 1.0

Town Lean
Enchant
Gamma

Null Lean
Cakez
Pooky
Shea
Alisae

Null
STD
Norwee
PP
Titus

Scum Lean
Haschel
Furtive
Shirou

[T-Bone]

I listen to you all the time. What do you want to do?

[T-Bone]

I say that knowing how you just voted. I mean in general.

[T-Bone]

Okay well I thought he was scum and you were voting Cakez whom I didn't want to vote. How could you throw that fact in my face I thought we had something special?????? Facts don't care about my feelings

[T-Bone]

Why are you accusing psyche of allowing scum to steal from you when you weren't stolen from? Enchant took from Gamma/Pooky yeah?

[T-Bone]

Stealing from alisae/shirou is good, actually.

Oh I wanted to but there's no way they would leave themselves unguarded.

[T-Bone]

Stealing from alisae/shirou is good, actually.

Oh I wanted to but there's no way they would leave themselves unguarded.

True we're like

The Great Wall of MS

Please leave your gates open I am but a horse.

[T-Bone]

I realize that the fatal flaw of everyone guard every round is that no one can earn enough coins (except enchant now) to give themselves some agency and change the challenge if they wish.

[T-Bone]

Wow what a low blow Furtive was scum! You gonna take that Pooky?????

[T-Bone]

I'm always down to throw caution to the winds.

[T-Bone]

Is there anything I can do with 450 coins that I can't do with 350? That's like my only motivation to get off Shirou. That and the aforementioned caution to the wind. I feel like I need a flip to get my head around my reads.

[T-Bone]

Oh I could double vote how spicy. Had to move back to page 1 to find out!

[T-Bone]

I am already loved but thanks.

[T-Bone]

Good thing we don't have a lot of people running around MS who want to have intimate relations with that candy or they'd be offended!

[T-Bone]

I can assure you I would not be mechanically on top of anything as any alignment.

Funny thing I wrote up a rant about how we're all about to earn 750 coins so people can stop complaining about having no agency when in 24 hours it'll be time to go hogwild with challenges but then I accidentally refreshed my page and didn't want to type it out again.

What a fool I would have been!

[T-Bone]

I talked to t bone in the pt and he changed my mind on some things

Also you aren't my top suspect but I want to be on this wagon for now

I felt like I did that a week ago lol

[T-Bone]

I talked to t bone in the pt and he changed my mind on some things

Also you aren't my top suspect but I want to be on this wagon for now

I am really interested in the details of how this conversation played out

Okay we have to back up a bit. I had a theory prior to Furtive being limmed that explained a Furtive/Shirou scumteam. I think this is where I started talking to Cakez about my reads in more detail. I remember Furtive being so incredulous that anyone would not rank their own team first. And I thought that lined up well with why we got blocked, because I very openly was not ranking my team first. Like we know that Hyperpost was not first on everyone's list, so I thought the block on us was crucial to Hyperpost winning (and it still might have been we'll find out later). Anyway there may still be a chance that scum thought like Furtive.

Anyway after Furtive got flipped I asked Cakez if I was making a mistake on Shirou like I did Furtive or if I had a good reason to think Shirou town. Cakez said he thinks Shirou is town because Pooky is scum. Then I explained why I think Shirou is scum in short. Cakez offered that one of Shirou/Pooky had to be scum. He said he finds everything Pooky says scummy, then asks me to explain more on Shirou. I do, and then Cakez said he can get on board. Then I asked him to forget about Pooky and explain his Shirou town read. He said he liked some posts and thought Pooky's push was scummy making Shirou town. Basically a reiteration of one scum in Shirou/Pooky. Then FB posted the start of the flag mini game and we haven't spoken since.

If you're wondering about that, neither of us posted for round 1, Cakez posted guard round 2 and I said maybe we should steal from Shirou, and then neither of us responded so we also didn't submit for round 3. You are now all caught up on our PT.

I've also made my reads publicly known so its not like he or anyone could be confused by them. At least not more than I am lolol

[T-Bone]

Oh sorry! After Firebringer told us we won 250 coins each we both responded with "cool". Now you are all caught up.

Cool.

[T-Bone]

What?

[T-Bone]

i'll be honest that i don't believe much in the psyche wagon at this point because it was a bit of a random read from me for the fact PP contributed the least in the entire game before replacing out, but alisae/me have been sharing some interesting stuff in the PT as well and i think maybe it's worth sheeping her

VOTE: psyche

my heart doesn't necessarily scream this is scum at all but /shrug

it's the best i can do atm

open wolfing "oh poor is me I guess I just have to get on this wagon but its probably town"

Lol

[T-Bone]

i mean it feels like titus is just attacking people who attack her

I think thats a pretty uncharitable reading of whats been happening here, especially given the analysis of the last post.

I mean I don't know any of Titus' stances either so like this isn't unreasonable for StD to say?

[T-Bone]

Shea, you missed my request for a substantive reason to SR Shiro.

The stuff with Pooky and I on day 1 and then the bizarreness of today.

[T-Bone]

you don't know Titus stances? she just posted some of them

I was expecting to see some after I spied this post but I didn't. And that wasn't a criticism of Titus so much as a slight defense of StD because earlier I was thinking the push on psyche was a bit weird because it felt like psyche was being held to a higher standard than Titus. With psyche being your counterwagon that struck me as really odd.

[T-Bone]

Let me ask you Shirou. When you changed the team to Titus/psyche slot, which slot were you hoping to flip when that happened?

[T-Bone]

I was expecting to see some after I spied this post but I didn't

on hindsight it's been mostly about me/norwe/alisae/psyche

i'm not sure she shared much about other slots yeah

there's some hints though of her supposed reads with not wanting to vote together with StD and etc however

Honestly if people don't spell out their reads hinting doesn't really do anything for me. That's why I try to be explicit about my reads, even if my read on a player is "I don't know".

[T-Bone]

Are those the reads I was meant to see as I caught up on the last 6 or 7 pages Shirou? Cause those were half a game ago.

[T-Bone]

Anyway I don't want to go in circles but I feel like this supports what I said when I quoted StD and Shea.

[T-Bone]

norwee: doesn't post content
titus: look norwee isn't posting content
town: omg you're brilliant tr for days

RIP who even is posting content?

[T-Bone]

I'll hammer the Shirou counterwagons for coins but otherwise I'm staying put. We seem to not have enough for Shirou but we would if the Titus/psyche wagons were consolidated. If that doesn't convince I don't know what will.

[T-Bone]

even with the double vote i still need one more person to jump onboard

if i kick shirou out and put tr players next to titus and psyche, they have to pick one

If you commit your coins for it I'll hammer.

[T-Bone]

I'd rather you use it on Shirou but I'd respect someone putting their coins on the line for their read. If I had the coins to double vote I would.

[T-Bone]

Honestly if you do that I'll abstain from voting. I have a scumread on the table already and I don't want that taken off.

[T-Bone]

Especially if you're doing it for the express purpose of putting town reads against Titus/psyche...then you might as well put my team in.

[T-Bone]

are all 5 of the shirou wagoneers going to do that

I mean I'm literally offering you the vote you said you needed so unless you think I'm gonna go 'lol just wanted you to waste your coins ' I don't get why swapping is more bang for your buck but you do you.

[T-Bone]

Just seems like you want to protect Shirou for some reason.

[T-Bone]

i put him at e-1 without realizing it

do you really think that

You are the one who said you would swap in a team people won't vote for to prevent a counterwagon. So yeah kinda. It's a weird stance to take. I haven't given any indication I would try to get you to waste your coins. I would have followed through.

[T-Bone]

Im looking for someone to do something in pursuit of the reads they say they believe in. That's what town does and I thought for a second you were going to. Instead I had to offer up a theory about me for you to even say that!

You're right I had you in my scum PoE especially if Shirou flipped town. You proposed an opportunity to take an action I view as townie and so I was onboard. I didn't think that needed an explanation.

[T-Bone]

Wow I'm impressed. Wasting StD's coins now lol

[T-Bone]

VOTE: Titus

[T-Bone]

Smh I got baited and it wasn't the hammer lolol

I'm not even blaming StD I did it to myself

[T-Bone]

lets just blame the titus elim on furtiveglance and call it a dag

Lol

Which means it's really Firebringer's fault

[T-Bone]

VOTE: Shirou

Yikes

[T-Bone]

I kinda believe scum!StD doesn't do that now. I gotta think on it as Titus was a Shirou partner candidate for me. I guess reads 3.0 coming soon.

[T-Bone]

I'd hate to consider Cakez ugh. What if the people I think can't be scum together like psyche, Haschel, and Shirou just are?

[T-Bone]

I feel like I got baited but I think I did it in part to myself so good job.

[T-Bone]

I just don't like how we're not even reforming the Shirou wagon now?

[T-Bone]

Spoiler: Business expense

Also thank you for playing Mafia with me I sat in a salon chair for 3 and 1/2 hours with nothing else to do.

I will also be expensing it to the business company since 100% business Mafia occurred while doing this.

[T-Bone]

LOL

But did you find out???

[T-Bone]

should we deadsheep titus and yeet shirou so titus can do vca in the dead pt

ahahahahahahaha

[T-Bone]

challenging cakez is really what I probably should have just done but I feel the need to go after psyche first as sort of an answer check

I mean if you waited like one post I would have challenged you to get Shirou and you would have had Cakez, and I feel like you knew I would do that so what?

[T-Bone]

I may just buy a double vote to get it done.

[T-Bone]

I will just say I am frustrated at the sudden lack of agency we now have. I'm also frustrated with WWE so I might just vote out this slot. The outcome of the Royal Rumble will decide it for me.

[T-Bone]

RR outcome is bad but I won't do it.

[T-Bone]

Enchant, would you back me if I said lim all replacements? Worked for us in the last large LOLOLOLOL

[T-Bone]

Wow and they all come in lolololol

[T-Bone]

is there an iso it would be helpful for me to try to give an immediate opinion on, if not I'll just start trudging through from the start ig lmao

The current challenge means only psyche (previously PenguinPower), Dunnstral (previous Alisae), and Shirou (previously Lazy Shirou) are eligible for elimination. It might be helpful to start there.

[T-Bone]

Wow and they all come in lolololol

What is this supposed to mean?

laughing at the timing

[T-Bone]

Or at least as long as it took psyche to maybe post some reads

[T-Bone]

Looks like you've already decided between Psyche or Shirou today.

Really don't understand why you are saying you need to wait for me and Haschel to post.

I mean you have access to a PT with Shirou. What do you think??

[T-Bone]

I am legitimately starting to get more and more sus of gamma. I think it's been a very long time since she did something to substantively effect the outcome of the game.

Gamma is sick though I think her absence is understandable and not related to alignment.

[T-Bone]

no one is listening to me at all and town is going to lose this game because of it.

I relate.

[T-Bone]

no one is listening to me at all and town is going to lose this game because of it.

yes shea, the problem is that we didn't listen to you on alisae before so when people began to vote her she got so anxious and replaced out

if it wasn't for the replace out if you're town and she is as well as i think you would prob have mislimmed her and we would be getting into ELO right now, as we're again with your push on me

definitely what we need is to listen to you when it seems you were wrong on ali as well

this aint good faith.

I was gonna say, I don't think Shirou has ever voiced a scumread on Shea so this is just attacking the attackers.

[T-Bone]

Okay???

[T-Bone]

Wow got pre-posted to shit I was reacting to psyche lolol

[T-Bone]

THE FOLKS DEMAND BUISNESS VCs
I SHALL DELIVER UPON THE MASSES WHA THEY WISH

in 2 min

Huge self own

[T-Bone]

I'm considering voting psyche. I think if he wasn't the Shirou counterwagon I'd do so. Let me pull together my thoughts. This is my intent to hammer post if we get to that point.

[T-Bone]

Okay, I have moved some people around here. My Enchant and Shea town reads are staying, I haven't seen anything to suggest this is wrong. Maybe I'm feeling too familiar with Enchant, but I've seen nothing that even alarms me tbh. I think Shea's frustration with not being listened to is genuine and nothing has changed for me here. I swapped the position of Pooky and Gamma, and I just feel a little recency bias maybe? I didn't want them both in the town pile, but I won't be going for Gamma any time soon. I'd need to see a scumflip or something shady to even change this. I also swapped the position of StD and Dunnstral. I just think StD would have handled the Titus thing differently if he were scum. I really respected the move to spend coins to pursue the scumread on Titus StD said he had. And I just imagine him just handle things differently in general if he were scum. I can't discount the feeling that maybe StD is just playing a great scum game so I won't be moving StD higher. I moved Dunnstral down to scum lean because I feel like Dunnstral replaced into a slot that people largely town read, and has coasted on that. Dunnstral has yet to offer anything to the thread. I think if Shirou were to flip town Dunnstral would have to be scum. I've kept Sheep here because they replaced into a slot I thought could be scum and they hasn't done anything to change my view. I did want to call out Sheep for reading me as scum because he thinks I tried to get Pooky limmed even though I didn't, but if he really is reading the game I want to give a little grace there, that's a lot of game to read. Psyche is...well tbh I looked as his back and forth with Shirou and if I'm honest I think there are points Shirou is making that I see. So I am conflicted. I'm gonna quote a few things after this post to walk through my thoughts. I think if one flips town the other is scum is still true and vise versa. But I'll work on that in another post. Psyche/Sheep makes sense to me as a scum pairing. Shirou or Dunn flipping scum makes me less sure of their partners, so that's another point that weighs in favor of psyche/sheep actually being scum. But that we still can't get Shirou limmed bothers me. That has been frustrating me for like several weeks now or however long this game has gone.

Spoiler: Reads 3.0

Town Lean
Enchant
Shea
Pooky

Null Lean
Gamma
Cakez
Norwee
StD

Scum Lean
Dunnstral
Psyche
Sheep
Shirou

Spoiler: Reads 2.0

Town Lean
Enchant
Gamma
Shea

Null Lean
Pooky
Alisae
Cakez
Norwee
Titus

Scum Lean
STD
Psyche
Haschel
Shirou

[T-Bone]

it's not bullshit. why would i hang on reads even i understand have weak basis

i don't understand what you mean here

you had suspicious on titus and still seemed to dislike the wagon happening at all rather than *yours*

you talked like as if us flipping you would be better than flipping titus and that feels lamist to me

i think it's dumb to only be able to eliminate null reads in games w 150 pages
it means town sat around all that time and did nothing
so much has happened but everyone acts like bystanders in it all. pile blame on the limmed slot for not making content as if it those were their only options.

i don't think lamist is a real tell anyway. as if only scum could ever have motive to complain when a town is fucking up.

the sad thing imo is that when i flip you'll still think lamist is a real tell just like people are still riding on "no content" as a lim basis after titus flip. you'll just go on being like that. all failure, no growth

Like this is just not true! People thought the limmed players were scum. This reframing of 'well everyone is voting out their nulls' is just incorrect.

I CANNOT BELIEVE YOU'RE STILL ARGUING YOU WERE NULLREADING TITUS

again, so silly. why would i not? i clarified that it was a null read. you saying "nope" is supposed to change my mind?

And I feel like this is also reframing. I didn't quote the whole exchange so you can go back for it. But the readslist Shirou quoted regarding the Titus read. Yes Titus was listed as null, but Titus was also listed 3rd from the bottom. I don't think it would be unreasonable for a player to interpret that Titus being placed near the two explicit scum reads as also thinking Titus could be scum. At least compared with the rest of the reads list. Like between the 'people I think are scum' and 'people I could make an unsatisfying case for as scum' there were two players in each for a total of 4, I don't think it's unreasonable to interpret them all as scum reads. Psyche clarifying now that 'actually they were null' is one thing. But reframing as it was always communicated this way is misleading. I just in general don't like how psyche is trying to reframe the mislims as something that was pushed by people who didn't have scumreads, and reframing the communications of his own reads.

I think if psyche had this discussion with a player I implicitly town read, I'd feel more compelled by it. So can someone in the Enchant to Cakez range read through this and tell me what they think?

[T-Bone]

i think enough people r willing to flip psyche/shirou in some order that we should just bite the bullet and do it and if its a throw its a throw we should be proud of

I'm kinda at this point too

My intent to hammer remains but I can just move over if that will do it. I just want like no arguments if psyche is town about flipping Shirou. The stall I am feeling in the air is real.

I would like to pre-claim that challenge against Shirou though.

[T-Bone]

I guess it's a race.

[T-Bone]

Really I don't want another challenge against some other team basically

[T-Bone]

I was gonna vote psyche but if y'all wanna come over here instead I'll stay put