Hollow Knight Mafia [game over]

[ActionDan]

Hi friends!

About to head in to work, read a tiny bit a while ago but cant do much until tonight.

If there's something pressing, or something that you want me to look at feel free to make me aware.

My plan is to read 10 pages and I guess cakes iso since they are leading wagon.

[ActionDan]

Gimli:

Posts 38 and 42 raise an eyebrow as Furtive's response to the "stupid question" is perfectly fine and not particularly rigid as ice as described.
I like posts 152 and 153

Firebringer:

My visceral reaction to post 45 is to murder it.
92 and 93 lean in to the "I'm clearly making this all up" and if this were all a joke I don't see where the pressure would be as town to deviate from the simple powerplay scum persona.
None of posts 114, 129, or 130 feel remotely town, and they aren't jokes anymore.

Aristeia:

Re: 73 and 74, my thoughts exactly, though they play 2nd fiddle to the primary "I rolled scum".
Although I disagree about MT's post 110 being performative or scummy in any way I like post 126

Klick:

Re: 81, Red's 76 looks nothing like a bus to me rendering this pairing thoughtless.

Red:

Of the trio of posts, 85-87, 85 is fine on its own but the next two feel a tinge scummy.

Asri Teroka:

All 4 of the reads in post 99 do not objectively make any sense, and I don't mean paired together - none of them individually look valid.

Black:

I have thought Black's posts prior to 139 were just NAI fluff but this post and post 150 are towny.
I'm so confused by post 176. Why are you detailing a case Red never made? Why attribute what clearly have to be your own thoughts to another?

Petapan:

Re: Post 155, besides the point is it not? What matters is not time but signal to noise, and that value is low.

---

Stopped at page 10. This style isn't working for me as well as I thought it might. I don't feel its worth the effort/time to be comprehensive. Ah well.

Not mentioned in the above: While VP Baltar's questions here and there are generally fine, especially the absolutely necessary one to Asri in post 108, none of them have yet to be converted into anything substantive. I would expect Petapan to be doing a bit more than just floating around at this point. MT's vote in post 198 is disappointing considering Firebringer to me when throwing the kitchen sink at klick is less solving more railroading / gaslighting in my eyes.

VOTE: Firebringer

I haven't read Cakez yet please do not push through the game day with a flip until I do that at least. And even then I would like some time even if I only get chunks of it rarely.

[ActionDan]

Thanks Shea, that was heartwarming.

Perhaps I was spoiled by Fate Grand Order Mafia but this is my third game on site after a while and it really feels like I'm scarfing down my third helping of dirt.

If I'm going to get elimmed I'd rather it be properly done and not through this collective exercise in abdication of responsibility to say nothing of scum manipulation. I also don't buy for a second that whatever name wins the lottery would always equitably get elimmed - nor should it. The choices left right now are me and Misty. As of post 1789 the vote count looked like this:

VOTE COUNT 1.13

WITH 17 VOTES IN PLAY, IT TAKES 9 TO MAKE A DECISION. DAY 1 ENDS IN (expired on 2023-02-17 17:05:00).

execution

ACTIONDAN [5]:

Morning Tweet, petapan, Cat Scratch Fever, Aristeia, Gimli

REDFF [3]:

furtiveglance, Mistyx, Firebringer

SIRCAKEZ [3]:

Klick, Alisae, Asri Teroka

GIMLI [2]:

SirCakez, redFF

MORNING TWEET [1]:

fireisredsir

ALISAE [1]:

Black

ASRI TEROKA [1]:

Thestatusquo

FIREBRINGER [1]:

ActionDan

NOT VOTING [0]:

mod notes

All vote counters have been borked by the newest update, so please let me know if there are mistakes in the VC.
This is a mod note.

Would any of you participants feel particularly good flipping Misty if my name gets crossed off? The Wagon differential here is 5 - 0; I know I wouldn't. And I'd be very curious to know how many of you would commit to pretend otherwise which so far seems to be zero.

The only thing I can garner out of this is a couple of reactions:

Both 1861 and 1869 from Red I find distasteful after having their name crossed off.

1833 and 1834 are slightly towny

and I interpret 1815 together with 1851 to suggest that Petapan taking this seriously but not so seriously as to avoid sabotaging the process.

I don't care about page count.
Want Fireisred's worldview
want Dan's worldview
want more from cakez

VOTE: actiondan
lets hope you're right then fire

Did Firebringer remove your backbone or something? Why so quick to fold?

Segueing into my "world view"; I wanted to try a very wide comprehensive read through but it takes time which I clearly cannot expend as much as the average player here and the sheer amount of negative feedback I'm getting from it this game alone already from a single post is pretty disheartening let me tell you. Even so, we have more than 8 days left. I at least plan to make use of them.

[ActionDan]

TSQ's 1958 high points are close to what I was thinking during those same ten pages minus the weight of the FB-Ari connection.

[ActionDan]

@Fire Is Red Sir ("FIRS"?), Hi.

Spoiler: Form, Substance, Time Management

I'm doing that too right now though and you saw me do the same thing as town in pictures.

I do agree that without any amount of real time component its very easy to get lost in the sauce but I guess its hard for me to say that scum do this more than town when replacing into large games.

there is a difference between wallposting a full catchup all at once and then jumping into real time interaction like you did in pictures, and starting one and then only getting like 12% of the way through the game. the latter part is specifically what reminded me of me seeing scum do that in the past

in this game you were making immediate efforts to talk to people who were around while you were catching up and trying to engage with the game as it is now, even while reading back

to me that is a significant difference. i think in both cases my read on your slots is still primarily based on the previous holder of it, but his is definitely something that i think he would perceive to be a "safe" way to enter as scum

i agree tho it's mostly an approach thing, i just wanted to explain to him why the approach gets the reaction that it does since if he's town he might genuinely feel an obligation to read and respond to everything, and id rather he didn't feel that was necessary. id rather he get into the game as it is now

also my main point wasn't that im reading him off form rather than substance

my point was that his form makes his substance less meaningful and not really significant enough to read off of. and i think if he's town he's more likely to produce substance that allows people to find him if he goes for a different form

Segueing into my "world view"; I wanted to try a very wide comprehensive read through but it takes time which I clearly cannot expend as much as the average player here and the sheer amount of negative feedback I'm getting from it this game alone already from a single post is pretty disheartening let me tell you. Even so, we have more than 8 days left. I at least plan to make use of them.

i think ive just seen that be a scum approach to replacing in too many times. specifically the starting from the beginning of the thread and responding to things as if you were there live and slowly working your way through, usually only making it a small percentage of the way before pausing and resuming again later. i can recall multiple instances of scum doing this and dragging out the "catch up" to last like over a week

imo its a really easy thing to do as scum, and it's kind of tempting to try to create that base level of Good Content that you missed out on making due to not being here the whole time. like, "look at me, i am responding to all these things in the way town would!". while also dodging really ever talking to people live very much

i don't think its at all impossible that town would choose that approach, that might just be your preference, but i scumread the slot previously and what you've done hasn't done much to improve my read

personally i would prefer primary focus on current events and maybe a summary of points that stand out to you most as you read back if you have time to do so

i think responding to stuff that happened at the start of the game in such a comprehensive way is just not a super productive use of your limited time and that makes it feel like it could be busy work. i like that you seem to have identified this yourself by saying it feels like it's not worth the effort/time, i just would like to see more of the follow up to that

You seem like a reasonable person so my counter argument on the form part of this is that talking to people "Live" in my experience is as easy to do as scum than as town. If the argument is that for some reason scum like to dodge that aspect of play because it creates some sort of burden for them I'd tend to disagree. Is it really that hard quote a post throwout a town read / scum read or 2 and then talk about anime for 10 pages inbetween? I don't think so. I have other negative things to say about this style of play but I'll suppress them. At the end of the day is about whatever gets the job done so I'll see if I can adapt and adopt some of your suggestions.

In any case I do at least appreciate that you use some qualifiers to your position unlike MT's 2119 revote attributing their behavior to rate mine as scummy.

@MT please link your last significantly developed town game you replaced into and your last scum game you replaced into.

[ActionDan]

I thought you liked twitter posting Fire.

I'm working from home today and I've only read this page but Alisae's posts align entirely with my thoughts (see 1988)

[ActionDan]

I think the only reason why I'm not buying into that is because I don't have flips to really tell me otherwise. If he's a wolf, who are his teammates in his towncore? It's controlly ya but I fail to see the bigger picture here.

The result will always boil down to my elim. It always felt designed that way and its clear he wants me dead. This was always just a convenient way of getting there

pedit:

You see the cheese. Its in the posts! Alisae quotes a post then comments. It's just not done in a wall post all at once.

[ActionDan]

But actually what have Alisae's jumps been? Cakez to me is something more than one person is guilty of. And Alisae's vote on me was not because they thought I was strongly scum afaik. Why isn't this reevaluation that's going on in real time just not normal?

pedit: Well I "get it" in so much as the opinions on this page is concerned that Alisae has expressed, I happen to like them. Is there a specific one you don't get? or is it all of them so far? (I mean one concerns you so I'll chalk that up to self-interest)

[ActionDan]

I can whisper that one too.

I have to actually work as well.

[ActionDan]

So petapan is just scum

Peta just hiding out waiting for the day to end doesn't feel right. And he's willing to just vote for whoever just to end it? What

Is this normal townPeta behavior?

at times, yes

i think the game has gotten shitty and dull and i don't like talking with most of the people in it, we've reached the stage of endlessly rehashing the same arguments while people loudly shield every major attempt at a wagon so nothing gets done

we are less than halfway to the allotted deadline and are already over 100 pages. we're on pace to have 150, possibly 200. absolutely no one is going to want to reread the colossal pile of shit we have generated, and that is a wildly pro-scum gamestate

scum are already winning this day phase, and potentially the rest of the game with it


the game does not need more "content", it needs less, and it needs it yesterday. it needs someone to actively be flipped.

this is maybe contrary to popular opinion where "we still have so much time to discuss" is the constant refrain, as though the optimal game state is to milk every last second of the clock available with the idea you will somehow come to an optimal decision, but having playing way too many games over the past few years i don't believe that to be the case. i think lengthy, idle day 1s are antitown.

This is such hypocritical bullshit; My man over here diverted to vote Gimli and simmered in the background the last 30 pages. His vote and Red's and Fire's were ALWAYS coming home to roost. Was anyone in this thread under any other impression?

He's right about one thing. Scum is winning this game, I'm flipping town and when I do I just know that the next day will feature wrung hands and scratched heads.

Btw @Black, nothing goes on in the QT. Klick and Cakez are more MIA than I am.

VOTE: Petapan

When Day 2 comes around the questions to ask are how and why Fire's wagon got extinguished and just how justified were MT's Peta's and CSF's early votes on Lycan were. Actually that latter question is something I'm going to explore in a few hours after work.

[ActionDan]

And?

[ActionDan]

I have been gifted with such prescience as to clearly foresee my own miselim. And in this quite probable reality the scum are winning. Do you want to know why?

[ActionDan]

that's just objectively false Fire.

But before I do go I do want to say I appreciate the daylight you give me.

[ActionDan]

Dan if you think you are flipping today can you give a few thoughts about each slot in the game?

also you should claim.

VOTE: ActionDan

I reiterate that you should claim.

After work. Claim I can do; Rolestopper; all actions targetting my target fail (including the NK).

[ActionDan]

3 shot actually.

[ActionDan]

I forgot I was until Alisae's question prompted me to look back to double check

[ActionDan]

Are you serious right now

[ActionDan]

This line of thought isn't worthy of a response but I'll give one anyway. Order of events: Replace in see rolestopper with 3 shots; over time forget the 3 shot part. claim rolestopper, recheck role; add in 3 shot. the difference between 3 shot and infinite is practically 0 which is likely why I forgot in the first place unlike if it were 1 shot or maybe even 2. I'm not going to presume to explain my subconscious beyond that. And if that doesn't satisfy you I don't care.

[ActionDan]

Congrats on your future scummy gimli!