Robot Chicken Mafia - Game Over

[LlamaFluff]

I think I got this but there is one thing that I am still trying to figure out. If player A has the most votes after 19 hours, but not a majority, he can not be lynched for the next 19 hours. Can he be lynched after that though or is it immunity for the entirety of day one?

Example -
after 19 hours player A has 6 votes
during the next 19 hours player B gets 5 votes
can player A be lynched in the following 19 hours?

[LlamaFluff]

ok got it... making sure this wasnt some wierd game where we make players safe each round.

vote zwet

[LlamaFluff]

Actually it may be best to discuss a little bit of the mechanics of the game while we are still in the early going. This seems to be a bit of "vote people to safety", although we more or less should ignore that for the most part untill we are reaching a point where we have decided on a lynch. If suspect gets put immune temporarily, it doesnt mean we need to stop asking questions by any means, we just cant vote them for a few hours.

The hardest part of this could actually be getting a lynch in the first few days, especially with some dice rolls that create days that last less then 24 hours. This is something we dont need to worry about yet, but some basic planning of what time periods we can even obtain a lynch in should be discussed.

So basically its a weird mechanic, but not one that should be effecting the way we play at all. If we want to lynch someone, they get lynched because there wont be enough players to vote any other way. If anyone sees something wrong with treating this as a primarily as a normal game, please correct me.

[LlamaFluff]

The hardest part of this could actually be getting a lynch in the first few days, especially with some dice rolls that create days that last more then 24 hours. This is something we dont need to worry about yet, but some basic planning of what time periods we can even obtain a lynch in should be discussed.

Does that mean a day could last one hour? That'd be hell...

Not "day" but "channel" or whatever its really called. If I have all the facts down after a random amount of time from 1 hour to 3 days, if a lynch has not been achieved, we can not lynch the player with the highest votes during the next time period. There is no night phase untill a lynch is achieved though.

Which I think means...
Lets say day two we start voting player A but no lynch occurs so he goes immune
During the second phase, a cop claims guilty on A, but we cant lynch him
During the third phase, we can lynch A

[LlamaFluff]

Two more questions on deadlines

1) What happens if there is a tie at the end of the X hours 'channel'?
2) What is the policy for a 'channel' that overlaps with a day deadline (ie deadline is 4PM and the 'channel' is supposed to end at 8PM?)?

[LlamaFluff]

Always something new... makes this game just that much more interesting. I actually have never seen a game where someone has asked to be lynched day one before though, just people who have claimed miller/PGO or things along that line.

I think there are better ways to work with zwet, but need to work some things out in my head before I start speculating too much.

[LlamaFluff]

Unless someone has time to keep a running FoS count, I would prefer to just stick with votes given that they are much more trackable and express a clear top suspect instead of leaving unknowns such as zazies post where which of her suspects if any is more suspicious.

The only time we need to watch our votes is when deadline is closer, given the 72 hour max thing, that really shouldnt be untill around the 25th I would say.

[LlamaFluff]

Unvote: Llama

Well, with what's coming out from these conversations, it won't be obvious to find something good...

What type of thing are you looking for?

I still think we should stick to votes since they are more trackable in the long run then FoSs and really reflect suspicion on a more concrete level. Later in the game, an FoS can be undersold or oversold with ease, while a vote is a vote. Its intention to lynch, FoS can be anything from "a feeling" to "im voting someone else now".

[LlamaFluff]

Anyway, Llama, if you're saying that my FoSes against hp and xRECK are scummy (because your post was difficult to follow for me) then state your reasons for it.

I dont entirely disagree with your suspicions, but what I dont like about multiple FoSs and no votes is there is no distinction over which one is more suspicious if any and why.

[LlamaFluff]

Unvote: Llama

Well, with what's coming out from these conversations, it won't be obvious to find something good...

What type of thing are you looking for?

[LlamaFluff]

Unvote: Llama

Well, with what's coming out from these conversations, it won't be obvious to find something good...

What type of thing are you looking for?

I said that because there was little conversation going on. It was basically just people posting to vote and with little talking going on.

Few followups then

1) Why did you unvote?
2) What would of been an example of something to 'go on'?

[LlamaFluff]

2) Something to go on? Some conversation, that's all. Like we're doing right now ^_^

I see it as your own resposibility to actually talk about something instead of letting someone else start it for you. Taking a back seat to what is talked about is argueably a scum tell as it puts others as the dominantly resposeable party for anything that happens that stems from that line of discussion.

Ultimately though, saying your unvote was given that "nothing was happening" just feels off. Unvoting will likely cause even less to happen in ways of discussion (yes I realize the confusingness of this statement in this post) since it does nothing really to poke at anything going on. Also I view unvoting as you finding something to unvote over.

I do agree with you here, Fos and Vote aren't the same thing.
But in this particular game, I think we need to show a little restraint.

I just dont like the idea of not having a more concrete thing to look back on since especially late in the game, what happened earlier on is highly important. Even if we do say that we are going to move from voting to using FoSs purely, then we hit more confusing areas which Zazie again already proved, which is using multiple FoSs. If we are limiting them to one, we basically are not even using them. When we get within 5 days of deadline, yes we need to be careful since unlucky dice can really mess us up. Untill then I am voting regularly. It makes the most sense to have well documented suspicions instead of more confusing ones that can be manipulated later in the game

vote xRECKONERx

You at this point have cast three different votes on wanting a bandwagon, wanting a bandwagon and unkown random reason. Now a personal pet peeve of mine is people changing votes early in the game saying that they are still random. When you finish with your random vote, its because you now view someone as scummy for an action they have taken. If you are continually just casting votes that have no meaning without adding anything to the game, you are just not helping anything at all.

Also why vote hp? He doesnt have the most votes so it doesnt follow the bandwagon train of thought from earlier in the game. What do you actually think about whats going on in the game right now? If you need some prompts... What do you think of the FoS vs vote discussion? What do you think of zwets claim?

[LlamaFluff]

You may as well start addressing zwet’s WIFOM now.

I lean to believing it just because that he is actually asking for us to kill him. I have not played with the guy before, but if he is scum that is really ballsy play, and I have to doubt that someone would actually try it. My basic plan is to treat zwet like any other miller claim and just vote him if I think he is scum.

Maybe I dont quite understand the question, but I dont see him as scum making this claim in a game with relatively short deadlines and then asking to be lynched instead of trying to just continue the game without even doing any attempts to distance/buddy for additional WIFOM.

[LlamaFluff]

1) No claim. If he genuinely wanted the town to do everything to lynch him, he’d claim fully. Not “I’m a death miller”, but “I’m <flavorrole> appearing as <flavored thing>”.

This is true and should be adressed

2) And if he were telling the truth, he would have a huge flavor-based clue as to the mafia’s identity. He could be asking for a flavorclaim to expose the mafia. He’s not. Instead, he’s only trying to establish his own alignment.

What? Flavor in Robot Chicken is random as hell, so I would be shocked if there is anything to be discerned from the flavor. At most role names can back up roleclaims, but I doubt we will see much linked together. Even if they are all somehow linked, there is things like the overwhelming ammount of characters that have appeared in the show that fakes should be easy to come up with.

3) He goes on and on about how he needs to be lynched immediately lest some catastrophic WIFOM occur- and yet goes and does precisely that, by voting LF without any reason! He’s not making no effort to expose suspicious players- he’s making an insincere effort. And that’s how he would win if town. Establishing his alignment one way or the other only helps him win if he’s mafia.

I dont understand what you are getting at here. He voted me without any reason after asking to die which is obviously not trying to help the town even though he is saying the best way to help the town is if he dies to establish alignment what now? Self-voting isnt allowed if thats what you are getting at.

Therefore, the death miller claim is a lie. It does make perfect sense as a bluff by mafia, allowing him to establish a superlatively unhelpful playstyle which if bought would mislead the town if he otherwise dies.

If he is going to refuse to play a game where he does try to do something helpful yes then I would back a lynch of him. It would be like trying to play a game with Nat or someone to that meta who should always be policy lynched untill they either stop playing or play seriously.

Most of my view on town-danger roles is to take them at face value and continue from that point in suspicions normally. Lynch them if they are scummy, dont if they look townish, just be aware of what they manipulate in role information.

Moreover, there will be no way for anyone to match how suspicious zwet’s behavior today. He is already lying about his role, not helping the town, and promising to not help the town in the future. I will not be voting anyone else today (with the possible exception of in a deadline situation).

I still think reckon is a good shot at being scum. With multiple votes that accomplish nothing and even dont line up well their suspicion requisites while avoiding main topics of conversation. Now the switch to zwet after your post, but there were changes of votes in between the claim from zwet and that change.

[LlamaFluff]

@Reck - Why do you think zwet is scum in your own words?

[LlamaFluff]

Does something there seem out of place to you? The question tomorrow will be, after zwet’s lynch [shockingly] reveals him as antitown: Why did zwet vote you. There were 2 possible answers:
He was hoping for the town to WIFOM you to be guilty, when you’re actually innocent.
He was hoping for the town to WIFOM you to be innocent, when you’re actually guilty.

There also is him just trying to be a dick and get lynched on those ground as well, but at this point you are only looking at him as being mafia which I disagree with and you seem to get on me for being one track minded about him being scum later on.

Actually it may be best to discuss a little bit of the mechanics of the game while we are still in the early going.
<snip>
So basically its a weird mechanic, but not one that should be effecting the way we play at all.
<snip>

Why did you prompt a discussion of game mechanics when you thought that it wouldn’t have any effect on play?

I do a lot of "thinking as I type" posts and this was one of them. It did need to be established though that even though the game did appear to have a different mechanich involved then we are used to playing, there is no reason to go around trying to change the way we play the game is it is not necessary to do so.

First you stall and then avoid zwet:

<snip>
I think there are better ways to work with zwet, but need to work some things out in my head before I start speculating too much.

Right here I am thinking vig killing him, or any other type of role somehow working with him to prove his alignment at night.

So, you except a claim despite the 3 problems I point about it. And you say you’re only going to vote him if “you think he is scum”. If you don’t think that about what zwet is doing now, when is is doing absolutely nothing to help the town- what will it take you to “think he is scum”? Why on earth would you expect him (if mafia) to start helping the town, if he won’t be lynched when he’s not? Yet you omit any evidence of zwet not refusing to do something helpful, with the best you can come up with something like “too-suspicious-to-be-suspicious”, and launch a defense of zwet:

I will think he is scum when enough stuff has happened for me to think that he is scum. Right now he is being a dick and just trying to get lynched due to his claim, yes it would be nice if he was trying to scumhunt or anything along those lines but guess what would be happening if he did? People would still be going "lets lynch him today". He would get lynched and there would be so much damn WIFOM around him that it would be easy to manipulate anything he did for scum for the rest of the game. There would be a higher chance of him not getting lynched if he did scumhunt, but I doubt he would of lived either way, and I think he knows that. A death miller claim is not going to last long in a game, especially if they are town.

1) No claim. If he genuinely wanted the town to do everything to lynch him, he’d claim fully. Not “I’m a death miller”, but “I’m <flavorrole> appearing as <flavored thing>”.

This is true and should be addressed

We are addressing it, by lynching zwet. What did you have in mind?

Zwet claiming flavor, his name, clip, why he is a miller those types of things.

2) And if he were telling the truth, he would have a huge flavor-based clue as to the mafia’s identity. He could be asking for a flavorclaim to expose the mafia. He’s not. Instead, he’s only trying to establish his own alignment.

What? Flavor in Robot Chicken is random as hell, so I would be shocked if there is anything to be discerned from the flavor. At most role names can back up roleclaims, but I doubt we will see much linked together. Even if they are all somehow linked, there is things like the overwhelming ammount of characters that have appeared in the show that fakes should be easy to come up with.

Why are you completely dismissingly even the possibility that the mafia have some common theme?
What flavor would you expect a [hypothetical] death miller to be, if not something which fits in with the mafia’s?

Its robot chicken! Do you know how difficult it is to link characters that dont appear in the same sketch? Give me some examples of large groups of linkable characters. Miller can be anything though from what I have seen. It can be as simple as "character with a gun" or "character that is an antagonist".

See my paraphrases of zwet’s posts at the beginning of the section.
Zwet made such a big deal of how he was so dangerous he couldn’t be kept alive because of what might happen to any action he did- and in the middle of his using that as justification for refusing to help the town, votes you without any reason, undermining even that weak justification.

I still think this is just him trying to get lynched, and its working. Again, I just dont see this as scum behavior since everything he does is something to try and get himself killed.

You are only considering “zwet is telling the truth and should be lynched” and “zwet is telling the truth and shouldn’t be lynched”. You’re avoiding the most likely: “zwet is lying”.

And you are avoiding "zwet is telling the truth". I just dont see scum-zwet doing this. He is asking to be lynched if he gets lynched then what? It doesnt help or hinder his facton at all since bussing wouldnt be points, defending him doesnt earn points, nothing really is benificial from it.

So you think it’s less likely that Reckon would behave that way as town, than zwet would act the way he is as mafia?

Maybe thats bad wording or maybe I dont get it. Reck made multiple random votes to bandwagon players, then decided to random vote someone who didnt have a lot of votes, then once you posted on zwet, decided to vote him. Zwet had claimed before some of her votes though, and reck had completely ignored his claim untill someone put up a case against him.

Now of course reck is claiming the vote on hp was for bandwagoning zwet, which all of her other votes were made with the intention of doing. Now he vote moves from hp to zwet once someone makes a case against zwet and he is close to a lynch. It just doesnt seem to follow a path of scumhunting to me.

[LlamaFluff]

I'm interested in knowing why everyone has completely ignored the fact that I DID flavor/ rolename claim.

I thought you were making a joke about talking a lot given the first part of the post. Why are you a death miller though? I have never seen any type of a miller role that doesnt give some reasoning, even in most normal games.

[LlamaFluff]

SRSLY, zwet needs to tell us what Ryan Seacrest is supposed to do in this mafia, because as far as my role goes I'm supposed to believe he is an alien...not human. Which would mean he is lying and is not Seacrest...

Wait... you have role information on zwet?

[LlamaFluff]

I thought I already hinted this...

*facepalm*

Im just confused over how you have any information about zwet day one.

[LlamaFluff]

@Santos - Do you think or know zwets is an alien?

@Zwet - What exactly do you reveal as when you flip?

[LlamaFluff]

Oh, my role believes in aliens. So i assume zwet is an alien.

How sure are you? Why zwet?

[LlamaFluff]

<snip>
And you are avoiding "zwet is telling the truth".

“Avoiding”? Try again. I started off by giving 3 reasons why zwet is not telling the truth.

I already have told you, more then once, that I believe his claim. I dont think he is scum because of how much he is trying to get himself killed. It was not a "im death miller, now lets not lynch me". It was "lynch me". Yes im buying into WIFOM, I know that I am at this point, but I am pretty sure that zwet is scum at this point. When I think someone is town, I sure as hell am going to defend them. The only doubt I have of zwet being town is what santos is pushing right now, which I still am not too sure of.

<snip>
I just dont see scum-zwet doing this. He is asking to be lynched if he gets lynched then what? It doesnt help or hinder his facton at all since bussing wouldnt be points, defending him doesnt earn points, nothing really is benificial from it.

Zwet is bluffing.

He is assuming that the town will believe his death miller claim, and therefore won’t actually lynch him. It’s literally WIFOM: he’s implying he put poison in his own glass, and trying to get the town to say “well, mafia isn’t the type of player to put poison in his own glass”. And once the town buys it and decides not to lynch him, then he gets to sit back and not be helpful.

I do not think he is bluffing

. There is a big difference in claiming an odd role and claiming it then asking to be lynched because of it. If he had just claimed death miller, then yes I would be looking at this differently, but if he is claiming death miller and ASKING to be lynched, and PLAYING like he wants to be lynched, then I do believe him. The biggest difference between us is you think he is lying about his claim, and I dont.

Now tell me what benefit town-zwet gets from doing this. Which, you still can’t. So, despite Zwet’s actions making sense if he’s mafia, and not if he’s town- you’re trying to push the conclusion that he’s town.

He believes that its the right move, that is why he is playing how he is. I do not think that this is the right way for him to play if he is town, but what can I do about it if thats the conclusion he comes to. I am not going to vote someone I think is town, if you have a problem with that, well so be it.

I’m pointing out how you can’t see any way that Reckon’s play could be of an innocent, yet bend over backwards to defend zwet without any reasoning besides WIFOM.

Zwet hasn’t followed *any* path of scumhunting

. (With, um, the exception of voting you?) So how is he less guilty than Reckon?

I believe zwet, I am not going to vote to lynch someone I think is town, I think that is going to be the answer to most of your questions here. Dont try and oversell my case on reck being some "holy crap obv scum guys" case. I do think reck is the scummiest in the game right now, so I am going to be pushing and asking questions. Which he still hasnt addressed the movement to hp and then zwet.

The worst part is how you’re expecting 1 or 2 or 8 others to vote Reckon when your argument against him consists of “moving a vote after someone makes a case on them” being a sign of guilt. (As if your attack on Reckon were legitimate, and not an attempt to try to stop others from listening to me about zwet.)

If you think that I would like reck lynched this page you either need to take a look at the fact we are on page 6, or that I still even havent had first questions answered, or that there really a case I am comfortable ending the day on. Yes I think that how he completely ignored zwet, broke his pattern of bandwagoning to vote hp

for wagoning

then moved his vote to who hp was wagoning (zwet) once you posted a case on him is scummy. It doesnt seem to follow a normal thought process, and I see scum deviate from a normal process much more often then town.

[LlamaFluff]

For the first time in the game I agree with Emp.

Tomorrow after my midterm I should have more stuff up

[LlamaFluff]

vote Santos

The claimed lyncher wagon is better then the claimed miller wagon

[LlamaFluff]

But you still are saying its your win condition to lynch zwet right? That falls under lyncher, which falls under anti-town, even though the fact that the supposed target claimed death miller and supposedly a character that he isnt just makes this all the more confusing.

Guarenteed anti-town lyncher lynch is the better one though.

[LlamaFluff]

You lynch him tomorrow. I'm your target right now.

Nope, absolutely refuse to lynch you before him. Lyncher is

anti-town

, we had someone claim

anti-town

and they should be lynched

today

[LlamaFluff]

@mod

- Is the vote count correct?

[LlamaFluff]

Why would i waste my time as scum to tell you about the entirety of my role? 'Lyncher townie' is a plausible role and cannot be proved anti-town until the mod says so.

No, unless you *know* beyond a doubt, that your target is scum aligned (which you obviously dont as that wasnt in your first post), lyncher is anti-town.

[LlamaFluff]

That being said...

FoS: Drench

until he shows up to explain himself.

Why is Drench scum? I didnt even understand the case from kmd on him, this is just you parroting again, this time something that I cant even figure out. More up later tonight or sometime tomorrow.

Vote Reck

[LlamaFluff]

I feel like I'm trying to follow whichever person's logic makes the most sense without reading back over 9 pages worth of stuff, which is why I jumped on Drench, because I completely saw the logic behind it. *shrug*

Why do you think drench is scum. In your own words, not buy quoting other players.

Also why are we talking about what kill is a vig kill and what isnt. That cant be a productive line of discussion.

@kmd - can you clarify the drench suspicions for me?
@EM - Did you think santos was lyncher or mafia?

[LlamaFluff]

Leaning quite a bit to a slicey or reck vote right now. Have to go to work in about 20 minutes so will hopefully get a more solid choice started tonight after I get back.

People still need to shut up about what type of faction is making what type of kill. It only can help anti-town.

[LlamaFluff]

People still need to shut up about what type of faction is making what type of kill. It only can help anti-town.

I'm not buying this. Probably since I've seen your play as anti-town pretending to be town. Duh. What harm does it do for townies to try to figure out what factions are operating against us? None. What harm does it do to scum factions for there to be discussion about you/them? I don't know, but it doesn't hurt town.

No, by having quite a few people comment on what they think is what type of factional kill, scum can usually get a little bit of insight into who can and who cant be certain role that are a threat to them. Talking about what type of role resulted in what kill will only end badly.

[LlamaFluff]

Slicey has been relatively quiet in this game, and has managed to stay out of the way of main topics of conversation, or even taking any definitive stance on anyone for the most part of the game. Even at this game I have a hard time pinning down where his suspicions lie.

If zwet's actually scum, thats good.

If we find out he isn't, well then it's not a huge loss. Death Miller is not a town power role. But still....I'm not sure.

ugh, the WIFOM is killing me. >_>

Whole lot of nothing right here, comes up with no real stance on zwets alignment, just more comments on the already obvious scenarios that could happen with a zwet lynch. This continues and is expanded with the next post;

Recokner is acting the exact same way I did in my first game here. I was town that game. I have a feeling he's town right now.

As for Santos, well, I'm not really sure right now. I played two games with him (both are ongoing.) In one he contributed little, lynched and was scum. In another one, again contributed very little and was town this time. I'd be willing to bet he's scum.

Ugh zwet, I just don't know what to do with you. >___>

Gives a town read on reck here (wow that’s a first), nothing too much backing it up though. The read on santos is interesting though as there is just a little bit of pressure forming on him at this point. Slicey pulls out a meta that has no definitive alignment, in fact one that is proven to hold no merit in itself, and decides that he is scum, yet still isn’t voting him? Also the stall on zwet seems a little off given that this is in the exact middle of the debate between me and et, also that zwet is now very near to a lynch. There are no comments to suggest zwet as town or scum at this point from him.

One santos starts falling apart slicey appears on the wagon pretty quickly, but more interesting is the sudden intrest in having zwet get vigged, which he had never even started to hint an alignment guess of before this post.

Opening the day slicey starts showing interest in reck, who had been regarded as pro-town earlier given that he “played similar when he started”. This time there is no clear initial alignment. When receiving pressure for defending reck he again starts trying to play both sides. The fact that the way reck plays fits the “newb town” meta is brought up, while at the same time post 196 is brought up which slicey alludes to thoughts of reck being scum. 196 also occurred before his initial day two post which put reck down at no specific alignment.

Vote Slicey

[LlamaFluff]

@Slicey - Its your timing of the suspicion on reck that is not adding up right now. Let me walk you through the way this "progressed".

In 178, near the end of D1 you say that reck is town.
In 203, you seem to start wondering if he is scum for the same reasons I was suspicious of him for (ironically that was parroting).
In 245, you say that reck was scum for post 196. But 196 had already passed by the time 203 rolled around. My post you commented on in 203 even directly refrenced 196. There was no "additonal reasoning" that you refrenced in this post.

So why is reck scum? Why havent you voted reck? Why did you only respond to about half a paragraph of my case?

[LlamaFluff]

@mod

Can you prod Slicey?

I just realized we have a deadline in about four days, so whatever happens it needs to happen sometime soon. As stated before, I would prefer a Slicey lynch today, but would be willing to go back to a reck lynch if people would rather go for him.

@Emp - Go back and read my case on Slicey. Not a whole lot of it is "scum with reck". Regardless of Recks alignment, I still think the way Slicey has moved around his suspicion of him for very weak reasoning, and it usually follows change in a view of him or reck.

@All: This is the time we need to be careful with our votes. With about 100 hours to deadline a few bad dice roles can take away a prefered lynch. So I would prefer to stick to FoS and things of that nature right now.

FoS Slicey

- Would be voting except for the above stated reasons

[LlamaFluff]

Vote Slicey

[LlamaFluff]

Actually

unvote

forgetting what I talked about last night. Whoever has the most votes at the end of this period has a high chance of not being touchable.

[LlamaFluff]

One of my biggest problems with how Slicey changed was it was ONLY over 196. He claims he was going back to reread the early part of the game that had him conived that reck was town but NOTHING except 196 was mentioned as reasoning for an opinion change. He seems to push a bit against him in that post as being scum, which is where that opinion came from even though I missed him calling him town later in it.

---

My biggest problem is how he reaches convineant conclusions on some odd evidence the best example is his early opinon on Santos.

As for Santos, well, I'm not really sure right now. I played two games with him (both are ongoing.) In one he contributed little, lynched and was scum. In another one, again contributed very little and was town this time. I'd be willing to bet he's scum.

He pulls up meta on Santos where he is useless regardless of alignment, and calls him scum for.... no reasoning. As far as I can tell he just picked one. This came not too long after Santos recieved a little pressure from hp, drench and jazz.

[LlamaFluff]

and I’m very close to being done with this game.

Ive thought the same thing a few times, lurkfest + early zwet arguement has just left me flustered and not real into the game.

I almost don’t know what to say. According to you, *he* is guilty because *you* didn’t read his post?

I already said, I missed that. His entire post seemed to be building to a reck vote, so I just either didnt catch that. I am not holding it against him anymore. I just have this gut feeling about him though from the santos scum read.

Given that I have been misreading a post that I based about half my case on, I would prefer a reck lynch today, and if the next voting window is large enough, will be persuing it.

[LlamaFluff]

I would prefer to get a lynch in this period, as it is going to be the longest available one we will have before deadline.

Vote Reck

@mod

- will day still deadline if replacements are needed?

[LlamaFluff]

He's the scummiest player by far. Day 1, he goes after lixyl and reck, both new players and easy targets. Jumps all over them with ridiculously weak 'cases' in an effort to intimidate them and to influence others with his aggressive posts directed to the newbs.

First I pressured lixyl, I never made a case on him. Cases from me are accompanied by votes and usually a lot of back and forth. Why can you not make a case on a new player though? Most players in this game fall under the "newb" definition, does that mean they are all of limits.

Way too "sure" that zwets was "town" and trying way too hard to keep a claimed death miller alive - for what purpose? Especially when it's a completely useless player like zwets? Only scum wants to keep a town aligned zwets around at the best of times, never mind when he claims to be a death miller.

I believe miller claims unless there is something that suggest otherwise, I have done this in the past, and will keep doing it in the future. A claim is a claim, if I dont think its BS, I am not going to lynch it. Also zwet-town is a town player. All town players count as one town player.

"Absolutely refuses" to lynch zwets before Santos. Refuses to even consider the possibility that Santos might be telling the truth about his role (which he was) while simultaneously "absolutely refusing" to consider that zwets might be lying. Bizarre.

Please, point me to any game where a lyncher is town aligned (and before someone does it, Crush open is not town aligned lyncher). Also that basically backed up everything I had been thinking that zwet was town, since I have never heard of a lyncher that has an anti-town target. I was fishing for reasons of zwet lying before santos claimed lyncher.

Out of nowhere, says he is "leaning quite a bit to a Slicey or Reck vote" at a point in time that he hadn't said a single thing about Slicey. Later posts a case on Slicey and has the audacity to include in that 'case' the fact that Slicey wasn't voting for zwets - when Llama had been doing his utmost darnedest to dissuade others from voting for zwets.

I reread days during the night phase since opinions of players change after seeing one players alignment. Slicey came off suspicious to me during that read. Also you arent understanding why Slicey not voting zwet is a tell. Slicey refused to take any stance on zwet, just kept coming up with "I dunno" posts.

An "oops" moment, perhaps, when Llama claimed in the same post where he made his weak case against Slicey that "once Santos starts falling apart..." - huh? When did Santos "start falling apart"? He was a townie, remember?

Town is allowed to crash and burn, I have seen it before quite a few times. It was obvious santos was doomed once he claimed lyncher, it wasnt untill this slicey voted him, even though he thought meta put santos leaning scum.

Add to this the fact that, as I alluded to previously, Llama was lying through his teeth in another game (which was ongoing at the time but has since ended) about the reasons for his lurking like mad in that thread while simultaneously posting up a storm in this thread, and the fact that he played the same way in that game as anti-town as he started out in this game - yeah, meta, I know, but there you have it - and I am quite convinced that Llama is scum.

I actually have a pretty consistant meta as town and scum, but besides the point. If you are calling me scum because im active, yeah then you will probably be calling me scum in every game you see me in. Unless I get really detached from a game, or its in my best intrest to hold back, im usually one of the more active posters in each game.

[LlamaFluff]

I dont really like how the new hp wagon has three of my top five picks on it.

Vote Kieraen

will try and get something up before night happens, I just got back to campus right now so it might be hard.

[LlamaFluff]

First vote from Keriean, (KI from here on out) sit poorly with me as its based on activity and lack of contribution. After naming fabin, EM, drench, slicey and hp as the lurkers who need to contribute more to the game, his vote lands on fabin without any real mentioning of why he is disregarding the other players as suspects.

Later he reasserts the fact that this vote is due to lack of contribution, while still ignoring the fact that there are others who are commiting the same offense, or really giving any reasoning to why fabin was chosen.

Then he goes on to talk about how there are no cases, and he likes to interrogate people and whatnot. However he has not made any cases, or really interrogated anyone beyond "Who is suspicious?". To be complaining over the lack of these things, while not taking any steps to start a case or interrogate a suspect just sits poorly.

2:59 PM timestamp im posting just incase I cant quite finish

[LlamaFluff]

KI finally votes hp with a post that basically translates to "OMG lurker, OMG flaker, I agree with kmd, vote". When he completely ignored hp earlier in the game while acknowlaging everything that he had done, yet only attaches himself to the wagon when a deadline lynch on him is looming, I just get the feeling of trying to railroad a player who is in obvious need of replacement, and hoping for a PR hit.

[LlamaFluff]

vote kerien

tomorrow when not drinkgin I respongd. I am niot voting for someone I think is town thoguh

[LlamaFluff]

@Jazz - Apart from the fact that somehow my vote got added to the wagon yesterday when I never put it there, my vote still would not of been a lynching one.

Also if someone I have been more or less neutral on the entire game suddenly gets hardcore wagoned by three of my top five scum picks. I am not going to be voting them. I dont vote for someone I dont think is scum.

----

A lot of what I said yesterday still holds very true for keiren. He has been bouncing around between lurkers and popular targets, without providing any concrete reasoning, or distinguishing between the lurkers who are basically called scum for just lurking.

[LlamaFluff]

@mod

- Was the end of day votecount correct?

Yes

[LlamaFluff]

I came in, read the game, didn't find any huge suspects, tried to pressure vote you and was y bit lazy, then night came and with no lynch, i feel as unpowered as before. With the day 1 going as it did, and a no lynch on day 2, this whole situation feels RVS/day oney to me. I'm gonna role along onj the reckoner thing til´I reread the thread.

How do you claim that you really have no idea what is going on and are just going to roll with the reck vote?

Yesterday you wanted a fabin lynch when you replaced in, you eventually changed to a hp lynch. There was reasoning behind each of these, even though it was very weak reasoning. Today you have no real idea what is going on and are just "rolling along", despite both players you voted for yesterday still being alive. Why did you abandon both of those cases for the reck one?

You also never answered why you singled out fabin from your "lurker group" yesterday as your inital vote.

[LlamaFluff]

LF:
You really have a problem with consistently overlooking the [other] most suspicious players in this game. (With the interesting exception of Reckoner.)

I got flustered early in this game that has had me a bit on tilt since then. Biggest thing I see going against Jazz is what seems like constant mentioning of two scum groups as opposed to what I figured would be SK-mafia doing kills.

Apart from that, I still like the Kierian lynch who came in and puts a lurker at his top suspect for reasons that do not well seperate him from other lurkers. When a different lurker becomes a viable target, he joins the wagon, with the person he was just pushing out the gate today.

[LlamaFluff]

still like kerian lynch. I really have next to no time to play though right now. Finals are starting next week, and I really need to shift attention to a few classes. I dont think I need to be replaced, but if a majority of players would prefer it, I would be fine with stepping down.

[LlamaFluff]

Ok, so most likely lynches are: Reck, Jazz, hp, Llama, Kieraen

I think Jazz is town. I think Kie is town. I am neutral on Llama. Leaning town on Reck, but he could be a decent lynch. Hp would be our best lynch today.

Also, gotta take care of something. Almost forgot. Ignore these quotes:

Not V/LA until Thursday for Finals. Won't try to peek in if I can.

still don't like kerian lynch. I really have time to play though right now. Finals aren't starting next week, and I really don't need to shift attention to any classes. I think I need to be replaced, and if a majority of players would prefer it, I wouldn't be fine with stepping down.

Wait what? You do know you added a "dont" into my quote right? I already have had someone messing with my vote, dont need them messing with my quotes too

[LlamaFluff]

ok then... yeah still happy with my vote

[LlamaFluff]

vote kieraen

[LlamaFluff]

LF/Fabian:
Kieraen is a great choice for today’s lynch. So why did you try to start his bandwagon when there were less than 3 hours available?

Not realizing that it was only a three hour period mainly

[LlamaFluff]

I read the 3 as 30, thats enough time to get a lynch so I voted.

Also how is me getting him immune for one period (of 72 hours max) when the day has about what... 300ish hours in it left, a scum tell? Its not like he is immune for the rest of the day, and I plan on moving my vote back as soon as I can (assuming +24 hour period). Me making the vote for self preservation too is even more confusing to me. How does me making another player immune make less people look at me?

[LlamaFluff]

I plan on moving my vote back as soon as I can (assuming +24 hour period).

Eh, what? You plan on moving your vote "back" to whom? Why vote for someone that you don't think is scummy in the first place, if your intent is to move your vote "back" to someone else? Please explain.

Ok... when I can vote keirean next I am voting him assuming its a 24+ hour period. Hence moving my vote "back" to him, since the channel change moved it off.

[LlamaFluff]

You are messing names up. I didnt want hp lynched, I thought he was town so didnt vote him at D2 deadline, in fact I kept my vote on kierian.

Right now I was voting kierian, who I have been calling scum since D2. And will revote him once its allowed

[LlamaFluff]

LF:
Who do you think is mafia with Kieraen?

Probably Drench, up untill recently looker (rep EM). kmd and you to a lesser extent as well. How the wagon forms will hopefully be a bit more telling though.

Also I still dont see how my reading too quick and seeing 3 as 30 has anything to do with alignment. I did not eliminate Kerian from lynching for the rest of the day by doing so, or forced to town to lynch in the next block, or anything along those lines.

[LlamaFluff]

Ok, I will humor this

LF:
Do you really need this spelled out?
1) You put a vote on Kieraen, harmlessly, because he can’t get lynched in under 3 hours.

Harmlessly, because voting him will in no way put attention on him, infact the vote will move attention away from him instead of making people more interested on him. Of course.

2) Kieraen becomes immune, people have to vote elsewhere, they vote someone else.

Of course, because we are required to lynch someone next period, instead of waiting around for the right lynch to become an option we have to vote someone completely different. Also having kerian immune means we are no longer allowed to talk about him as scum. That much has been obvious the entire time.

3a) Either suspicion sticks to Kieraen (maybe perhaps because something happened to the mafiakill he was supposed to perform?) and you can say “hey look I was there at the beginning with my vote” even though your vote actually hindered his lynch.

Yes yes, of course, I pushed my scumbuddy since day two. Hell this would be a lose/lose regarldess of alignment, if he is scum I bussed, if he is town, guess what llama is scum again durr.

3b) Or suspicion doesn’t, and you’ve indeed shielded Kieraen longer.

Again, I am putting my vote back as soon as he can be lynched again, I have said this multiple times.

4) And finally, when someone accuses you of this you gasp and say how farfetched that is.

Because its damn retarded. At this point you are going to say im scum no matter what the hell I do. I lynch scum, despite anything I have done, I must be scum, or at very least SK. Do you have any clue how stupid that is? No matter what the hell I do you want me lynched. I can put up a case on every anti-town player in a row and you would want me lynched. It was fairly obvious hp was town, really. If you are town im surprised you did not see the signs of a town wagon going on there.

Hell I dont even really know why people are calling me scum (maybe thats partially due to alchohol), but everyone is agreeing with me on my basic suspciions at this point. You still havent explained how me voting kerian and publicly saying, many times, that I would move my vote back to him when I can get him lynched, is a scum tell, when you agree with me about his alignment. I mean damn really dude?

[LlamaFluff]

Vote Kierean

[LlamaFluff]

Bump to try and give people less of a reason for missing this phase. Drench posting without adding a vote is noted though.

[LlamaFluff]

I feel so strongly that EmpTyger is an egregiously arrogant, obnoxious, and scummy jerk that my vote is likely to stay on him until either he's dead or I am.

So the fact that keirean is not trying to defend himself, or call anyone scummy, or build a case on anyone, but just try and link himself to people is not enough for you to think he is scum and vote him?

[LlamaFluff]

I defend people who I think are town, mostly because I tend to do better at picking out town then scum. hp hit quite a few of my smaller town tells, had just about everyone who I think is scum vote him, a bandwagon pop up at the last second, and then also the VT claim which in his position, made him really obv town to me. I dont vote for people I think are town.

Interestingly enough, you are using some of the same logic that I used yesterday and the day before when I didnt vote for hp today as a reason not to vote for keir.

@Drench - Voting someone doesnt take more then about a minute. Especially when you dont back it up with anything, like you just did.

[LlamaFluff]

Write post sans vote - 30 seconds
Read through thread - 2 minutes
Make educated vote - 15 seconds
Submit - 10 seconds
2 minutes 55 seconds total

Well your vote still has given me no reason to belive "read thread". Also I had midterms in dynamics and differential equations friday, yet I got a vote in.

Am I right though that the only people against a kier lynch are jazz and... well... kier I guess even though he almost seems for it.

@Grim + kmd - Kier thoughts?

[LlamaFluff]

1) who have you defended because you think they're town?

In this game or other games?

2) why do you say you're better at picking out town than scum?

Im much more consistant in being able to say "this person is definantly town" and having them be town. Im not bad with scum reads, but I am much more accurate with town reads, especially strong ones.

3) what "town tells" did hp[leaves] hit for you?

First his suspicions were dead on consistant, even when it would of been optimal for scum to switch or give thier top suspect. Apart from that town tell, there are really no big scum tells from him. At this stage in the game, no big scum tells is basically a town tell.

4) who are the players that you think are scum who were voting for him?

Kierian, drench are my top two picks, and you, emp, kmd are in my next few. When just about the entire wagon I would be ok with vigging, there is no way I want that lynch.

5) what do you mean about a bandwagon "popping up at the last second"? Are you surprised that the town would prefer a lynch over a no-lynch at the time and in the circumstances?

Last second wagons are very easy to kill as scum by either not posting, or just making a stalling post of wanting more information, a claim etc. I have seen one quick wagon that led to a scum lynch.

6) what was it about hp[leaves]' VT claim that "made him really obv town to you"? I don't see anything in his posts that would lead anyone to think he was "obvtown". If he was "obvtown" to you, it seems that it was because you are scum and therefore knew his alignment. I recall you calling me "obvtown" repeatedly in a previous game, when I was indeed town and you were scum. So, your words ring false in this game in light of your actions, your prior posts, and hp[leaves]' prior posts, unless you can point out some compelling evidence that he was "obvtown" based on his posts, rather than based on inside (scum) knowledge. I don't see it. Please elucidate.

One of my basic beliefs in this game is that a VT claim, when someone is guarenteed to be the lynch due to deadline is near certaintly a town claim. Scum can claim about anything and the wagon will usually stall enough for the day to just end. I have used this before when I had a town read on someone getting wagoned, and have been right when I have used it before.

Also if you are going to try and use a meta on me, at least go read some games I was town in. I have a very consistant meta, and only know one small thing that sets my play apart in different alignments. Also, you were really obv town in that game, someone would of needed to be blind not to see it.

Still, yes or no, is Kierian scum?

[LlamaFluff]

channel change go!

kierian claim now

[LlamaFluff]

Vote Kierean

[LlamaFluff]

This was definantly not a good game for me. I got really flustered day one when I was more getting attacked for personal beliefs instead of anything that I viewed as concrete. I dont think I have seen zwet as scum, but I really saw no way he was going to be scum after claiming death miller and asking to be lynched.

Then most of the players I was looking forward to playing with getting killed N1 with another getting killed the second night just sapped some of my will to play.

I am actually surprised people kept trying to lynch Reck. I was completely serious when I turned around on that stance. Also was completely right about hp being town. That wagon was really really scummy that came up on him. Again more or less showing that I do better with town then scum reads.

But yeah, I played like shit in this one. Most of the time the scum were in my neutral reads while town just kept doing really wierd shit to get lynched (santos claims lyncher, kerian gives up, people try and lynch jazz after the doc claim etc etc).

[LlamaFluff]

Hey just a question, if we RB KMD AND shoot him what happens?

Should be a boom. You cant RB passive abilities