Wheel of Time Mafia: Rip in the Pattern (GAME OVER)

[Shadow Knight]

<---- Confused. So we can vote, but its not considered an ability?

[Shadow Knight]

Hmm. I believe that making any assumptions about the differences and likenesses of the two games would be potentially damaging to the town. Based on the opening posts, I think the town's best bet for finding scum is to look for inconsistencies and lies, as Aes Sedai cannot lie. This is a game where LAL is not just a policy, but a necessity.

[Shadow Knight]

Are you saying that townies should lie?

[Shadow Knight]

EBWODP- also, see my sentence regarding assumptions.

[Shadow Knight]

Apply the sentence regarding assumptions to the first sentence of your post.

"If this game is anything like the last one Aes Sedai will be packing some pretty decent abilities." is an assumption. Don't assume. With that being said, the only people who would have to lie about their powers are the scum. That stands to reason, does it not?

[Shadow Knight]

@Bob- I do believe there are vanilla townies here. By definition, a vanilla townie shouldn't have to lie about abilities because they have none. So we have the Aes Sedai, who are most likely the only town power roles who *cannot* lie. We have the vanilla townies who don't *have* power roles to lie about. We have scum, who probably have powers and will probably lie about them (either lying about having them or lying about what they are/who they targeted). I'm saying that in this game, the easiest way to protect the power roles and catch scum is for the vanilla townies to NOT lie in any way, allowing LAL to basically become a guaranteed scum lynch.

[Shadow Knight]

whoops, sorry kinetic, i'll knock it off till everyone else gets here.

[Shadow Knight]

Mr. Flay, why do you think Shadow Knight is an Aes Sedai?

Seconded and

vote Mr. Flay

[Shadow Knight]

The only thing that asking the entire town to say a certain phrase will accomplish is to out any Aes Sedai that are here.

unvote, vote MacavityLock

This is not only a waste of the town's time, it can lead to outing town power roles while learning nothing about the scum. This is inherantly anti-town.

[Shadow Knight]

@Flay- In retrospect, the vote on you should have been a FOS (which I would have removed once you posted 89. My vote on Macavity is for the exact same reason you're FOSing him.

And just to play along. I have the town win condition and can't win any other way that I know of.

[Shadow Knight]

Its rather simple. Just because the sentence NOW doesn't out power roles or Aes Sedai, it doesn't mean that a sentence in the future won't. Starting down this path of "lets make everyone say the same thing" will only out the people who can't lie (Aes Sedai) later. How can you not see that?

[Shadow Knight]

Unless someone has the ability to detect lies, yes, its pointless. But I don't like that we're doing anything that could out/harm the Aes Sedai that are here.

@Seraphim- and you don't think it will be a little obvious when players start side-stepping questions?

[Shadow Knight]

I would have thought my intention was clear. I want the speculation about what we can ask people to stop. The best plan for the town to retain what are potentially powerful roles is to keep them hidden. I don't like Fabian's drunk defense and i also don't like fuzzy's play thus far.

[Shadow Knight]

Actually, I didn't know much about the theme either, but I found the wiki and google to be immensely helpful.

[Shadow Knight]

Can someone who knows the series ask him some flavor about his claim please?

[Shadow Knight]

Ok, my face hurts from the amount of times I've hit it on the desk. To get it straight, this is what happened, right? This is not rhetorical, I want to make sure I got it all.

1. Fabian can detect Saidar (the female half).

2. Spyre can use Sadin (the male half).

3. Someone unknown used Saidar (the female half).

4. Fabian detected it and told us. But also needs to find someone to teach him how to channel so he can develop his abilities.

5. Spyre, misread what Fabian can do and thought Fabian was detecting Spyre's power.

6. Spyre comes forward and claims he used Saidin (the male half) hoping to confirm Fabian. He also admits that his role PM has changed and that he is nucking futs.

So we have a claimed "almost Aes Sedai" healer who can get either more powerful or more abilities if he can find someone to teach him.

We also have a claimed "nutjob Saidin user" who may or may not turn into a SK.

Here is a question for all the people who are familiar with the books- What are the odds of Spyre being/remaining a townie? Did the crazy dudes from the book all turn homicidal or were some Saidin users just standard nutjobs?

[Shadow Knight]

I don't know if we have to kill him or not though. After reading the wiki and stuff, I thought that Aes Sedai could do something to take away his power. If they can do that, we don't necessarily have to lynch him, right?

[Shadow Knight]

Well, as harmless as any other townie. This is all assuming that he hasn't changed alignment yet.

[Shadow Knight]

I don't like ABR's posting. We don't *know* he's going to do anything. He would have gained a lot more by letting a townie die, than by trying to confirm him. That, at least leads me to believe he's a townie at this time. So, if ABR wants to lynch a townie, I don't think he is one himself.

unvote, vote Albert B Rampage

[Shadow Knight]

The whole point is that he gains more by keeping his mouth shut, not speaking up.

[Shadow Knight]

I don't agree. A live townie is a townie we need. I don't know how this theme is going to work with cops and such, but we can always check him later. Did insane people automatically become darkfriends?

[Shadow Knight]

Just because he's in bed with you doesn't mean he's scum. He might be a townie thinking that I'm scum, and wants to keep you alive to kill me because he thinks it will be harder to convince people that I am scum if you're gone.

What? This makes absolutely "no effing" sense. If he's already turned and is a SK then why would I continue to try and get you lynched? If he isn't turned then you just pushed for a townie's lynch and I shouldn't *need* to work to build a wagon on you. This post reeks of scum.

[Shadow Knight]

Is that question relevant to this game?

[Shadow Knight]

I haven't read the mini. Can someone answer whether all insane people became darkfriends? The point is that if he turns SK then we'll see extra kills. *Then* we can lynch him. I don't think he is scum at this point in time. Should that change, I'll gladly vote him.

[Shadow Knight]

I also think we should claim what room we're planning to sleep in. If Fabian has the ability to detect Saidar usage, others might have it too and this can help us narrow down what room nasty things came from.

[Shadow Knight]

What about that gentling thing? Wouldn't that effectively neuter him and confirm some people at the same time (if they were forced to claim)?

[Shadow Knight]

^Agreed

[Shadow Knight]

Um, actually, I called Jester in an ongoing game right now and sure enough, the player flipped Village Idiot.

[Shadow Knight]

I think that if he can be gentled, he should be gentled. He has already said that he shouldn't make it to the end game, which lends credence to Flay's argument that he could be a jester type role. If he is a Jester, I think he should just come forward and admit it and we can lynch him and get it over with.

[Shadow Knight]

So now my options for vote are ABR and MOS.

[Shadow Knight]

The more you push this, the more I think we'd be best off by lynching you and directing and and all Aes Sedai here to gentle spyre tonight.

[Shadow Knight]

Whoops, "you" is ABR, not KOC.

[Shadow Knight]

@Albert- now just prove you're not a darkfriend.

[Shadow Knight]

What is your partner's name? Not the player, but the character. That shouldn't out him/her at all.

[Shadow Knight]

Last question, then you've got my full backing.

What is the White Ajeh ability?

Yes, I'm ignoring you spyre. Deal with it.

[Shadow Knight]

@Albert-

Last question, then you've got my full backing.

What is the White Ajeh ability?

Yes, I'm ignoring you spyre. Deal with it.

Until tomorrow

unvote

[Shadow Knight]

@Albert- if you answer my question about the white ajeh, I may be able to hand over scum or confirm 2 people. Either way its good for us.

[Shadow Knight]

@Albert- if you answer my question about the white ajeh, I may be able to hand over scum or confirm 2 people. Either way its good for us.

OMG. Stop ignoring me and answer the effing question already. I would LOVE to be able to confirm a block of players or lynch scum day one.

[Shadow Knight]

Well since its so transparent and Albert is going to be stupid and not answer it, I am also Aes Sedai. My partner, who I will not divulge at this time is also White Ajeh. I want to compare my partner's claimed ability with Albert's partner. I would hope that Albert was smart enough to ask right off the bat otherwise I just outed myself for nothing.

So Albert, What. Is. Your. Partner. Claiming. His. White. Ajeh. Ability. Does?

[Shadow Knight]

Because alternatively, the Black Ajeh could be paired with true Aes Sedai which means that a mass claim would cripple them. "But Shadow," you ask, "why on Earth would a mod make the scum cripplable by a mass claim day one?" Because how often does a town claim on day one???

[Shadow Knight]

He explicitly told me to not claim his ability no matter what. I'll ask again.

So you're either lying and are Black Ajeh or your partner said something incredibly scummy sounding and you just believed it??

[Shadow Knight]

Actually- that is the perfect question for you Albert.

What was your initial thoughts on your partner not wishing you to reveal their ability?

[Shadow Knight]

You're acting like an idiot. (I can say that because I believe it, right?) I don't want your partner's name. If no one knows who they are, then it doesn't matter what power they have. I'm asking because the white ajeh I'm linked with has an ability that had me questioning it. If you're town you should be wondering why your partner wouldn't want you to be confirmed. If you can't produce a matching white ajeh power or at least something that matches flavor for white, then I'll be voting you as black ajeh.

[Shadow Knight]

I'm not confirming myself. I'm trying to confirm either both our unknown partners as well as Albert himself.

[Shadow Knight]

vote Albert B. Rampage

[Shadow Knight]

I don't care if he cares. A townie should do everything in his power to catch scum and/or prevent a mislynch. If you are unwilling or unable to save yourself by claiming something innoccuous that in no way reveals your partner or harms him in any way, then you deserve to be lynched.

[Shadow Knight]

Read what I'm asking for. I'm not outing anyone unless I think they're scum. I know that one of the FIRST things my partner and I did was trade role info, including abilities.

@Albert- Yes or no, do you know what your partner's ability is?

[Shadow Knight]

Yeah, I think we caught a liar. Because I don't see how you could get away with those answers.

[Shadow Knight]

I DO have the ability to detect Saidar. I was NOT notified that I felt the use of Saidar.

I feel that Albert is the better choice for lynch and that all Aes Sedai should gentle spyre tonight. I also feel that because AS can detect the use of Saidar, we should all claim which room we will be sleeping in to help detect the use and targets of Saidar powers.

As far as Albert's claim goes- I believe he is/was Aes Sedai and as such has the general Sedai powers (detect saidar, still, gentle). However, due to his anti-town play, I believe he is an excellent choice for lynch or stilling. I for one will be stilling him tonight if he refuses to comply with a plan that can confirm two players or catch a scum. If my partner is town, then they will also still him.

[Shadow Knight]

Oh. My. God.

Lets recap what it is I want and what that will accomplish. Then everyone who is voting me can feel properly stupid and unvote me.

1. I want ABR to claim his partner's ability.
2. ABR outed himself.
3. I do not want his partner's name.
4. Therefore I am not trying to out any other power role.
5. The way my Ajeh Ability is worded, it sounds as though each color has a specific ability.
6. If you notice, I have not shared mine, but should another Green Ajeh come forward later in the game, we can compare notes on our abilities.
7. My partner has claimed white Ajeh with an ability that I don't think is town aligned and I would like confirmation from ABR that his partner does or does not have the same ability.
8. I would be willing to accept a partial ability claim about this. (I.E.- what game mechanic the ability plays with, etc)
9. I am asking as much to confirm my hidden partner as to confirm ABR's hidden partner.
10. I feel that ABR's refusal, followed by his claim of not knowing is a lie, as I don't see any way around the truth with the wording he used. I will accept that I could be wrong if he is willing to comply with my attempt to clear 2 people who HAVE NOT BEEN OUTED (officially).

I'm more mystified about Fabian than I am worried. He may have been gambiting to try and find the AS who can train him.

[Shadow Knight]

Actually, the WAY my Detect Saidar works, is that if I'm in a room that is targetted by Saidar, I know what room it came from. If I'm in a room where Saidar is being unleashed, I know what room it is targetting. I was under the impression that it worked that way for everyone, meaning if we spread out the AS, then we can determine where One Power abilities are coming from and going to and map out some things.

[Shadow Knight]

unvote

Back to Fabian I go. How did you manage to detect Saidar when none of the Aes Sedai did? How *exactly* does your role work?

[Shadow Knight]

BTW- my idea works best if there are at least 3 people per room, with all the claimed AS in separate rooms. Work out with your partner if you'd rather be in the same room or different.

@Albert- now can you seriously tell me that it doesn't seem like a scum ability?

[Shadow Knight]

@Neji (I can't look at the avvy without calling you that)- I confirmed what I wanted to and I'm moving on. I suggest you do the same.

@Fabian- I don't really buy this. "Lesser Detect Saidar" works when "Detect Saidar" doesn't? Of the claims so far, your is the worst.

vote xxFabianxx

and I do believe that Spyre should be gentled tonight.

[Shadow Knight]

At this point, I believe that ABR is town and was acting in the interests of keeping his partner safe. That is why I was stressing that I didn't want to out WHO his partner was, just get an idea of WHAT they can do to compare with my partner who also happens to be white ajeh. By doing that, I can confirm (in my own mind at least) 4 players.

[Shadow Knight]

No he didn't, but I'll ask.

[Shadow Knight]

My partner says he did not use his ability.

[Shadow Knight]

So back to the idea of claiming sleeping arrangements...

[Shadow Knight]

Dude, seriously? The physical threat is not only childish, but also rather stupid as you're halfway around the world. Don't be an ass. If you disagree with something I say, argue with logic, not petty insults and empty threats.

[Shadow Knight]

WTF? Please tell me you mean that your blocking of Saidar/Saidin will start at daybreak and last until twilight, not that you are blocking abilities during the twilight until daybreak.

[Shadow Knight]

Bah. Go town! At least I helped get one.