Wheel of Time Mafia: Rip in the Pattern (GAME OVER)

[Benmage]

Completeness, for analysis.

And those that never sent one in and would have been randomized, and the possibility of scum lying... eh i think this is a non-issue minute thing at best.

[Benmage]

Inactivity???

Yes, you’ve been a much less active player. Who do you think is scum? You helped in other lynches?

We're up to day five. When is it a good time to get rid of him, would you say?

1. When we have no concrete scum target.

I slept in the stables Night 2. I hope this is going somewhere soon, because ABR needs a lynch, like, now.

Have you even looked at the ML/MBL case?

Also, I don't understand why Benmage wouldn't have been able to bond KoC 1. He was ta'veren, and all the ta'veren in the books are perfectly bondable. Especially with as many AS as there seems to be, I would definitely think his role would have been bondable.

Seraphim/ NEW KoC.

This over twilight 4.

My scenarios no longer need to apply, as MBL has claimed responsibility for the non-detection issue. How did you miss that?

I didn't accept it as a proper excuse.

[Benmage]

My scenarios no longer need to apply, as MBL has claimed responsibility for the non-detection issue. How did you miss that?

I didn't accept it as a proper excuse.

What about "false dilemma" don't you understand? Also, why did you answer this question when I asked it to Satael?

I'm just saying that he may have read it and just not accepted it, because thats the feeling I have. Basically MBL needs to give more information than just, 'oh ML is cleared.'

@KoC Well said . But I'd like more information out of MBL to get a better grasp on ML/MBL before i turn to ABR, who I do still have my suspicions about. (Like living this long as a claimed AS)(Which is starting to give me pause about MoS, especially considering his poorer play of late.)

[Benmage]

I understand. Who else wants ABR lynched. Or as I think Sajin or Setael asked(not recalling atm) who doesn't think he's lying?

MoS hasn't claimed AS, is leaning against it imo, has crazy game speculations, couldn't be bonded, is still

alive

for "leading the cause against (what are you claiming now, all 3-4??)...we'll go with many anti-town people"... And is as I've said playing poorly.

[Benmage]

@Mort, the defense i think ML is referring to, and i'm sure i could find the MBL post, it isn't that far back, but basically he excuses the oddity of the sleep locations/detections but doesn't explain it at all.

[Benmage]

Let's me make the same exact argument clearer: Benmage says that all menu items at McDonald's are hamburgers. I point out that there are also fries, chicken sandwiches, and filet o' fishes on the menu, thus disproving Benmage's point. MBL comes up to the counter and orders a salad. That does not mean that my points were invalid, nor does it mean that MBL won't get his salad because it's not on the menu. Benmage's argument remains a false dilemma.

The problem is you're in McDonalds eating a pizza and MBL is saying he made it special just for you.

[Benmage]

I think Macavity's instinct is sound here. He was about to get lynched if I remained silent. I told the truth about what happened. You guys followed a lead and it didn't pan out. Time to pursue other avenues.

No you're trying to give him an alibi with out explaining it. I'm not accepting it without you explaining more. You've been less than helpful this game. Everything you're keeping to yourself only hinders the town.

[Benmage]

The problem is you're in McDonalds eating a pizza and MBL is saying he made it special just for you.

Good comeback. Lrn2logic please.

I count this as you yielding.

[Benmage]

The problem is you're in McDonalds eating a pizza and MBL is saying he made it special just for you.

Good comeback. Lrn2logic please.

I count this as you yielding.

Yielding to what? I provided counterexamples. Any counterexample disproves a hypothesis. That I did not immediately provide what has turned out to likely be the actual case doesn't mean that your hypothesis is valid in any way. You're wrong. Live with it.

Your counter examples are weak, your switch to ‘lrn2logic’ shows you couldn’t continue the debate, hence the yielding.

* MacavityLock and MBL, scumpartners, get in trouble. The town "knows" that one is lying because of detects.
* MacavityLock gets run up by town. He claims. They're ready to crucify him anyway.
* MBL says "no, folks, I don't know why MacavityLock claimed to target poor innocent me last night."
* MacavityLock is lynched as murderous scum who just tried to gank MBL and got caught.
* MBL eats cake for the rest of the game.

Where is the convincing part that is supposed to get me to swear?? Maybe one of you are scum, maybe both are. I’m down to find out.

Agree with Sajin, MBL seems quite scummy. And MBL you haven’t explained your alibi on the detections. Soooo

unvote vote MBL

[Benmage]

Your counter examples are weak, your switch to ‘lrn2logic’ shows you couldn’t continue the debate, hence the yielding.

You tried to turn it in to "it is guaranteed that either MBL or ML is lying." I showed that that isn't true. I don't care how weak you think the counterexamples are, they're still counterexamples. If you want to make a case on either of us, that's fine. I haven't

proven

that neither of us is lying, nor did I ever claim to. All I showed was that you provided a false dilemma, and that "either MBL or ML is lying" is false. I don't know how many times I can keep explaining this.

That’s the thing, I didn’t find your counterexamples plausible.

I swear, Benmage, you are the laziest, most impulsive player I've ever come across on this site, and that's saying a lot. Since he's matured as a player, Albert's discipline puts yours to shame.

I love stuff like this. You yell and point and mock me, when what did I do?? Agree with anothers opinion. My god I have to control myself over here cause its comical how people blatantly ignore others and only pursue those who rouse them.

And all I agreed with Sajin is you seem scummy as he listed you in top scummy. AS you can see I listed why I voted. You are ignoring, and continuing to ignore the questions as to how you can just excuse ML’s “lie” at this point, until you prove otherwise, about the detections. You can just say ‘oh he’s good’ and expect us to go along with it. Let me spell it out for you. I. W.A.N.T M.O.R.E. dumbass, keep up the side mocking I love it.

[Benmage]

That’s the thing, I didn’t find your counterexamples plausible.

Why aren't they plausible, Benmage? It looks perfectly sounds to me, to be honest.

Because no one claimed they got roleblocked.

[Benmage]

What did I do?? Agree with anothers opinion.

Your mason partner, who you trust completely, just accused me of being Black Ajah. You followed up that post by nodding in agreement like a Dane Cook bobblehead doll. His argument has just been decimated, as it's beyond comprehension that I could possibly be Ajah, and yet you soldier on.

Wrong, god you are dense. I agreed that you are SCUMMY

.

I gave my reasoning and it is because of you ignoring my questions and being altogether unhelpful this game.

Make your case. Be specific. Use your limited powers of deduction the best you can.

God you are frustrating. I have stated a million times now. I don’t accept you simply saying ML’s detections/OP use on you checks out. I WANT TO KNOW Why/How you can make these bold statements. I’m tired of you thinking you alone are excluded and don’t have to relay information to the town. YOU ALONE ARE NOT THE GODSENT Savior everyone thinks they are the fucking best its disgusting. You alone aren’t going to win this game. You intolerance is ruining this game.

My vote remains until you answer how you can excuse ML’s LIE.

So, yeah, I still think Benmage is scum with Flay; I think his claim stinks, especally the part about "making warders" or whatever but not having any idea what that actually means (I think everyone esle who claimed so far has been pretty knowlegable about what their role abilities do, haven't they?)

This is just bad play/reasoning.

[Benmage]

What did I do?? Agree with anothers opinion.

Your mason partner, who you trust completely, just accused me of being Black Ajah. You followed up that post by nodding in agreement like a Dane Cook bobblehead doll. His argument has just been decimated, as it's beyond comprehension that I could possibly be Ajah, and yet you soldier on.

Wrong, god you are dense. I agreed that you are SCUMMY

.

I gave my reasoning and it is because of you ignoring my questions and being altogether unhelpful this game.

Make your case. Be specific. Use your limited powers of deduction the best you can.

God you are frustrating. I have stated a million times now. I don’t accept you simply saying ML’s detections/OP use on you checks out. I WANT TO KNOW Why/How you can make these bold statements. I’m tired of you thinking you alone are excluded and don’t have to relay information to the town. YOU ALONE ARE NOT THE GODSENT Savior everyone thinks they are the fucking best its disgusting. You alone aren’t going to win this game. You intolerance is ruining this game.

My vote remains until you answer how you can excuse ML’s LIE.

So, yeah, I still think Benmage is scum with Flay; I think his claim stinks, especally the part about "making warders" or whatever but not having any idea what that actually means (I think everyone esle who claimed so far has been pretty knowlegable about what their role abilities do, haven't they?)

This is just bad play/reasoning.

@Spryex the failed bonds concern me as well, obvious we know why faraday failed. A mass claim may give us further insight.

[Benmage]

My claim was the most complete/best for its time. I didn't defend scum, I was hesitant.

Regardless there has been a ton of information since than. That led to my claim. You're hung up on old arguments. There has been a plethora of information and scum leaks since than and you are clearly ignoring them. Hence bad play.

[Benmage]

Man, my gut says it'll be bad to keep SpryeX alive till the end...but his posts are the most logical here....I doubt I live after tonight <<real AS. I don't think a claimed AS could live some 4-5 days, oh hey ABR whatsup.

[Benmage]

Man I feel awesome.

I: Suspicions

1. MacavityLock

If you’re not scum, you’re a retard. I’m hoping its just that you’re scum.

So true.

2. julienvonwolfe

IF jvw turns out to be scum (which may happen).

Wow, aren’t we digging deep here.

3. ABR

ABR could be listed here too (as likely town), but there have been a few sketchy things I’m not sure about. Though for now he can go under town for me.

i just get a subtle eerie feeling. Maybe ABR is black.

Second roleblock claim, him or ABR is deff scum.

Vote ABR has seemed more and more scummy over the last few days. No way a 'confirmed' AS D1 lived this long.

Damn I am good at this game.

4.SpyreX

He hasn’t been playing town the way I’ve seen him (in my limited experience). So he’s definitely a possibility.

I guess I should add that neither I nor my partner tried to gentle Spryex, could be the cause for the shadow vote.

That’s it, there had to be more suspicion posts about SpryeX.

5. Kaiyruu

The whole interaction that took place between Kairyuu, Issac and Issac's final claim in addition to kairyuu's continual play has left a sour feeling for me and makes him/her my main candidate. I agree with that sentiment slicey on Kairyuu with the Issac flip SK.... his play since has just been poor, and i don't have many stronger leads and wanted to answer my own question, though i clearly need to revisit the flay debate.

GEEEEZE we got this outta the archives. Before Flay died…wow… Impressive, old news who cares.

6. Yosarian2

I see most scum simply ignore attacks on their partners, and we have a lot of inactivity. So again, why are you not attacking them?

This quote sucks, you started strong…you’re slipping…

Questions like these make me feel you’re terribly scum, because there is nothing more I can do to prove it and you know this. Fuckina. ML/KoC have me severely questioning their allegiance. Definitely more scummy people/worse claims out there. The only thing I can think of is scum.

Ah yeah, forgot about this… points for me.

8. Moratorium

Mort is a possibility because of that RB thing and is rather lacking input in the game.

^^^ This, Morts cruiser style sucks.

9. MoS

MoS hasn't claimed AS, is leaning against it imo, has crazy game speculations, couldn't be bonded, is still alive for "leading the cause against (what are you claiming now, all 3-4??)...we'll go with many anti-town people"... And is as I've said playing poorly.

^^ I approve this message.

@MBL that quote about you blows. You’re missing the strongest argument/suspicion yet. The one where I ask you the same question now and you continue to ignore it…think ya can guess the question???

II. Rolefishing/outing:

1. MoS

You believe him to be scum, or you know him to be scum? I think it is a waste to out a cop role, but this seems like what your claiming.

@MoS What about you dude. It seemed like you did some sort of investigation thing that outted/confirmed Flay. Who else can you confirm. You'd think scum would aim at these confirmed town PR's?? Especially this cop-like one. So before you die MoS, how about sharing other leads.

You only nailed Flay. With some weird post that suggested you knew about his role, I still don’t know exactly what you were hinting at but it suggested you as cop-like, and it worked because he was scum.

But why haven't you confirmed anyone else? You seem to have half-claimed/outted yourself....why haven't you delivered more information?

2. MBL

Now I want a full claim from MBL.

Personally I'd say I'd like to hear of all of ABR's detections and his partners

3. Macavity

You know what ML will claim... i don't lets see it because I think he's scum.

4. Sajin

I don’t think it outted you as badly as you’re saying Did everyone else auto assume it was Sajin just due to detections?

5. ABR

Look at it this way, ME-Sajin are town. Let’s suppose for a second ABR and his partner are town. KoC and Mos could be town too. MoS has acted town, I couldn’t bond him, nor could I KoC. That’s 6 people we could seriously confirm town. With sleep locations and other detections we could seriously narrow down some others.

6. Setael/KoC

I failed to bond Seraphim/Knight of Cydonia.

7. Benmage

(outed himself)

Hypothesis A:
Only a terrible player would do this as scum OR as town.

Mmmmm….Gonna go with good job me, for trying to get information for the town. Every and all information is beneficial, thanks for making me look good MBL.

2. Moratorium

1. For who I think could be town are Faraday, and Moratorium. Moratorium has been even more on the ball, though I wish he was more active of late. He was a forerunner against Fabian, put pressure on Kairyuu and Issac and helped out Issac.

Honestly Mort you're on my list after ABR and ML so I expect as much.

Inactivity sucks, Mort could step it up, not of disappeared in the past and of been one damn convincing town person. The activity level and later game play made this point of view lessen.

Inconsistent scumpartner pairs drawn:

ZzzZZz @this whole section.

Fishing for dirt on people/confirmed town:

1. on Slicey

@Kairyuu what is your argument against Slicey again?

2. on Setael and JVW

Now can you seriously stop just saying to lynch JFW, and now Setael simply for asking you to answer questions? At least give more cause as to why lynch these two.

Good as question there on Kaiyruu and look…Slicey was town. I am good.

Setael and JVW are confirmed town?? W.t.f?? this quote questioned ABR, you calling ABR confirmed town now…come on MBL You’re slipping badddd buddy…sad really.

I should've hammered myself outta spite, but doubt an AS could do that

Don't you KNOW whether or not a protown AS can do that? Isn't it in your role PM?

This is the only last minor possibility, but I think Sajin being alive alone clears this greatly.

Then why do you keep accusing Macavity, ABR, MoS, etc. of being Black AS if/when their partners are alive?

I accused MoS of being Black AS?? Couldn’t of been in conjunction with ML and ABR, but you only really see what you wanna see aye… Macavity and ABR could both be scum.

I could enlighten you as to why you failed to bond me, but I have no intention of doing so. Suffice to say I have a good reason not to do so, and I suspect MoS has a similar reason.

Of course not KoC, why say your scum?

I'm not scum, Benmage.

You're making the amazing assumption that all three people you failed to bond are scum? Faraday came up town, and your bond failed on him. So your accusation here makes ZERO sense.

Your quoting here is comically atrocious. If you weren’t so dense. You’d see in plenty of other posts by me I say Faraday couldn’t be bonded because he was AS. My accusations make perfect sense, maybe you are simply as confused as the way you quote. I do not know all the reasons why a bond fails, as in Faraday’s case I will REPEAT that it is obvious because he was AS. I do not know why KoC and MoS bonds failed, but the idea of scum, should not be overlooked (as big or minor as it may be).


Conclusion:

I feel bad for MBL, how much time do you think he wasted in finding all those useless quotes?? Does anyone feel better now that he did this?? All the above posts show is that I have been active.

@MBL This whole post just verifies you ignoring obvious questions, and trying to stray everyone else on side meaningless tangents. Explain How you can excuse ML’s non-detected use off the OP. State where you’ve slept. Take the stick outta your ass you aren’t going to win the town this game. You’ve done a fine job as scum so far. How the other townies don’t notice you sidetracking is beyond me.

[Benmage]

I'm thinking a partial massclaim might be useful. At this point, is anyone against claiming AS/not-AS? It would resolve the numbers issue and help us figure out approximately how many Black Ajah we're looking for. Some people seem to think 1 is a good number, and that's going to get us in a lot of trouble. Once this claim has been made, I have some conclusions I think we can make that will help the town.

I like this claim AS/not claim AS idea. Give us an idea on AS numbers/black ajah, but I’d be more for a total claim.

Whatever Black Ajah we have, they probably exist *instead* of protown AS colors, because all Black Ajah in the books had a former color before they defected, and they probably have been given colors as safe claims. It makes no sense for the Black Ajah to exist outside of the color distribution.

This.


Intruth a mass claim would be awesome, knock MBL off that high horse of his. Do we want simply roles, like AS/RB Red as to describe ABR's claim or do we want full and total claims?

[Benmage]

No, I don't think that this partial claim should include colors.

Example:

Person X: I am Aes Sedai.
Person Y: I am also Aes Sedai.
Person Z: I am not Aes Sedai.

Simple as that, no color or ability information necessary.

MmmMMmm I don't know...It might help us pin point AS, but scum can lie and say they are AS when they aren't ruining this idea.

I think I'm more for a full total mass claim, than this vague one.

[Benmage]

Ever gonna answer my question about your declaration ben?

Which was this again?

[Benmage]

I'm flexible. Town loses a little utility from me claiming but not a ton, and might gain information.

I assume there are about 4 scum remaining, and perhaps a few protown power roles. If seven say no to the claim, I say we nix it, because that means that a few protown power roles see it as detrimental.

I'd like to see you claim.

[Benmage]

Eating a nightkill would be a win.

All that being said, I do find it odd that MacavityLock claimed to try and still me all by himself. I suggest this for a few reasons:

1) If his partner is ABR, why didn't they ask anyone else to help still me? I read in thread it takes more than one.. so why would Mac piss his night action away if there was like 0% chance of it working? Why wouldn't Albert invoke the usual "My partner has a request" and actually get the job done ???
2) Why still MBL when it's obvious from the thread that I'm not Aes Sedai?

Is it possible that Macavity tried to fry me last night and failed? Does that make more sense than him trying to still me?

Macavity, last chance to admit you did anything besides stilling, because I don't particularly buy that that's what you tried to do to me.

Let bygones be bygones enough tit-for-tat mocking posts…this post is pretty good. You’re looking at different arguments.

I doubt you’re going to get a reverse admitting out of ML, it would mean instant-death.

“Eating a nightkill would be a win” Caught my eye…why have you been so abstinent in the past, if you dying alone benefits us?

TSS statement about the 3rd dismemberment, something about OP immunity seems farfetched, but it did get me thinking about peculiar roles/abilities. You saying he failed to fry you last night means what… you have the foxhead medallion?

I totally agree, his stilling attempt made 0 sense and seemed like a horrible move, I’m sure I mentioned this before .

[Benmage]

@MOD messed up quote in post 2508.

Can you delete the silent speaker wrote aspect, the whole quote is MBL's.

[Benmage]

I think someone detected One Power and SpyreX claimed it? I don't believe anyone specifically tied him to the action.

Hence my continued doubt. With a mass claim we could at least discover if he was gentled or not. (I think ML is the only one to claim to attempted gentling SpryeX d1)

The only redeeming aspect here is SpryeX agrees to not live to see this game end, and I for one am still for this.

@ML did you get any response from Kinetic saying you successfully gentled SpryeX? Or one saying you failed to still MBL??

To much vagueness for my liking.

[Benmage]

I did not receive any sort of message about the efficacy of the Gentle.

Woops

[Benmage]

But still any different message from the gentle attempt to the stilling attempt?

I know i specifically got

I failed to bond xxx

. Maybe you can ask ABR if it tells him whether or not he was successful.... Although judging by the fact that Issac's kills went through and he thought he roleblocked him, i doubt this...

@ML why didn't you hypothetically give executioner to ABR and decided the scummiest person on the QT?

[Benmage]

What? If this is true, are you saying that we should assume that if Sajin's target stayed at the Barn, then no one needed to have been roleblocked for the results as given to have occurred?

So when MBL gave you an out that directly conflicted with the number of detections from the Blacksmith that you claimed to have, why did you not discount it immediately?

Didn’t I ask something along these lines…

MBL has claimed that if he's targeted by saidar, no detection location results will occur. This is consistent with there being 3 saidar actions at the Blacksmith last night, but only 2 detections from the Blacksmith.

Which is so bizarre how do you so readily accept this?

Again, why am I the only one grilled about this? Sajin still hasn't said whether or not he targeted someone at the Barn last night.

Because you’re questionings can stand alone without know Sajin’s information…we can analyze him once we grasp yours. If we do this one at a time there’s less room to get sidetracked...which is failing because MBL is still ignoring questions…
Yours stand alone as followed:
ABR claims to RB JVW to stayed Silo. (We can accept this because of a detection to Silo)
ML claims to still MBL (MBL didn’t stay barn…only detections to barn and silo, hence if ABR isn’t lying you are lying, and visa versa either way one of you two are lying)

@MBL please stop ignoring questions. DID you stay at Silo Twilight 4…Can you elaborate on how MBL’s ability would not turn up on detections.

This is becoming increasingly frustrating and useless. We have a claimed "Aes Sedai" in ABR who has obviously lied several times, and yet appears to have no lost his powers. By that logic, ABR is either lying about being AS, or is black AS. EIther way, he's scum, unless you want to invoke some terrible anti-town WIFOM about him being town lying about being AS for kicks.

It stinks when you think you’ve found an obvious scum, or some inarguable piece of information and no one else sees it or barely talks about it….Like the questions I’ve continuously been asking of MBL.

@Benmage:

Post yours like Kai did for day 1 AND day 4 again (or all of em but those are the two I am most interested in)

Awww do I have to..its all in my claim, surely you could do it the same.

Weak.

You've got to be kidding.

I thought it was rather revealing.

Also go after Kairyuu, he's so scummy its unbelievable.

One minute he says he doesn't believe in black ajah, then the next he goes after me despite the enormous evidence of me being AS.

ZzzZZzz there was a funny post by MBL on people I called scummy. I wish he’d make a funny one about all the people you’ve said ‘go after obvious scum’.

MBL can you put the chain saw away?

Can more people give their opinions on ABR and or the massclaim?

I’d prefer a full mass claim over the simple AS/not AS claim, but would accept either obviously, as I am already outted.

I think ABR has danced the line of truth to much and could definitely be scummy.

I don’t think the mod would stress the 3 oaths and put it into the roles if he didn’t want it followed to an extent. I’ve seen plenty of WoT-themed games that didn’t bind AS to the three oaths as we are only human and playing that way is extremely difficult.

[Benmage]

Apparently goat, simply AS/not AS

@MBL you've been defending ML from my attacks.

[Benmage]

Can you please not answer questions for your partner, who you suspect might be scum? I asked him who I'm chainsawing to "defend" MacavityLock. (who I just attacked--remember complimenting me?)

Indeed and it was good, but you could simply finally be trying to draw some sort of separation, because your defense of him and constant tangent and dragging out with me was getting ridiculous on both our parts.

The point is you were definitely defending him from my attacks.

AND CAN YOU ANSWER!!! please ..we can do this one at a time... here's and easy one...did you sleep Silo twilight 4?

[Benmage]

I've asked ML questions... i'm waiting on MBL whom i've asked continuously the same few questions only to be ignored.

ML..bad player much?

[Benmage]

@MBL

can you just acknowledge that you are ignoring the question --if you slept silo twilight 4?

[Benmage]

I don't want to be replaced btw. Lynch me, go ahead, gogogo. I don't like you, you don't like me, who cares about the game, let's just kill each other and have fun with it.

...just asked to me replaced wtf?

[Benmage]

All right. I don't want to play anymore. Vote me please.

You gave up on this game a while ago, didn't you?

I gave up on some players, not the game itself.

You dont think other people have felt frustrated this game?

[Benmage]

I'd also like to say that IMO macavity's idea to target someone for stilling who was almost certainly not AS in order to see if they told the truth about where they slept is brilliant and I wish I had thought of it.

Except MBL hasn't claimed where he slept...

So many AS, good job MoS

[Benmage]

Pfft, and you said I was playing bad today. Y'all just wouldn't listen to me. Trust in me, and this game would be much easier for everyone. Except the scum, of course.

Pfft you were voting for me at one time…

Now I'll give you your I told you so and raise you:

With FIVE WHOLE ROLES not out, shouldn't we just fullclaim?

For this full claim too.

[Benmage]

I'm pissed, shoulda just made me a VT...to many AS who was i suppose to bond...

[Benmage]

Anyway, now that I'm claimed...one thing that disturbes me is that there actaully is a line in the Aes Sedi role PM, I'm not going to quote it directly right here, but it basically says that you aren't allowed to state that you know someone is scum if you don't know that or else you're breaking the first oath' all of you Aes Sedi know what I'm talking about. Didn't Albert quite specifically do that?

Actually it is the exact same in the mini..so everyone can read it. The part you are referring to is the claiming god exists example. If the AS believed it, it isn't a lie. In ABR's case if he truly believed 100% xxx was scum he did not break any rules/oaths.

What Kairyuu pointed out about mod-formation in regards to scum is much more revealing, and I don’t see this ever specifically mentioned…feel free to all look at mini (I think it’s the exact same statements about the oaths)

[Benmage]

^^I agree with this.

[Benmage]

Odd KoC, but I think since its heal you only would have used it if Goat was attacked. Thus you didn't use the OP... so no saidair 'to' detections... Now i'm curious Twilight one, you didn't see your own detection to where SpryeX was?

[Benmage]

Benmage, if you have all your partner's detects confirmed and you're willing to vouch for them, I'll answer that question. I don't want him weaseling out of anything based on my answer. (Or anyone else, for that matter, but meh, seems like we have plenty of Aes Sedai to confirm detects.)

Yes I have all of his twilight actions/detections confirmed and willing to vouch for.

So did you sleep Silo twilight 4??

[Benmage]

So did you sleep Silo twilight 4??

Quit being a douche. Asking the same question over and over won't get it answered.

I thought you said if i could vouch for his detections/actions you would finally answer...

[Benmage]

Oh, nevermind, it's early and I forgot I promised to answer that if you could vouch. I'm the douche, albeit a sleepy one.

No, I didn't sleep at the Silo twilight 4.

No problem, thank you for answering...So willing to elaborate on how ML's OP usage wasn't detected on you, because right now in my book...this is condemning him.

[Benmage]

Oh, when you claimed to be missing detections I was worried...i agree lets wait for all claims/roles/color/abilites and than detections.

[Benmage]

Macavity, last chance to admit you did anything besides stilling, because I don't particularly buy that that's what you tried to do to me.

Nope, I attempted to Still you. Before twi 4, I made ABR aware of the fact that I would be attempting to Still an in-thread liar, but I did not tell him which one. I did not expect, nor did I want, him to Still anybody along with me. My desired purpose was detection results only, and I did not expect to succeed in Stilling you, as I don't think you're AS.

Any opinion on this MBL?

[Benmage]

I don't recall previously claiming Aes Sedai, but yes, I am one. Bonus info: I targeted MBL last night. It appears from things that have been said that my action did

not

resolve and was

not

blocked, and it did not appear on the list of detected saidar. In my opinion the blacksmith saidar conundrum has been explained to my satisfaction. I still, however, believe that MBL is scum; Isacc claimed Power-proof too, remember.

If we fullclaim, and I'm with MacLock that we should avoid one if we can, Goatrevolt should go next. There's a thing that troubles me, but I'll wait until after Goat claims to go into greater detail.

Unvote,

we’ll see how things continue to develop…

Ohh gee TSS is AS. What a surprise.

Personally, I'd rather have the MBL claim BEFORE the rest of it.

And MoS to answer my little question before we delve further.

I’d like an MBL full claim too.

Ohh, and before I forget:

@Ben, ABR, Goat:

If I missed it: Night 2 sleeping locations.

I never got twilight two resolutions from Kinetic.

Assuming the doubling effect of AS AND the fact that a DOC just came out, thats not really gonna fly.

Isn't it a little suspicious that a doctor offered to come out first and so willingly? Use your brain, man...

Why aren't you pursuing further, you've seemed to decided on what you think of that claim..

There's only 8 colors if you include Black Ajah. Thats part of the issue here.

And yea its a little suspicious HOWEVER with the bevy of power roles I wouldn't be surprised if its just a gamble.

Some scum who aren't AS may have claimed AS...idno probably they are simply black...I dont see the setup being forced into have equal numbers of all ajah.

If you're going to push a massclaim that could endanger the more valuable power roles, you'd better examine the pros and cons more carefully.

What are you worried about? Didn’t you not state that your death alone is benefit to the town…Do you still feel this way? I mean I’d die before the doctor role…

I also find it sketchy that a non One Power user who supposedly can't night talk with One Power users, seems to have enough information to know for certain that it's win-win for all One Power users to fully reveal.

I’m for it.

4.) The fact we've got 16 AS (I'm thinkin we got ballsy scum)

This.

@MOD I was surprised.. i didn't have an active vote, i unvoted just to be sure.

[Benmage]

What are you worried about? Didn’t you not state that your death alone is benefit to the town…Do you still feel this way? I mean I’d die before the doctor role…

I'm so tired of you. I can't imagine I'm the first.

...

[Benmage]

Claiming partners should probably be done first.. in order from sketchiest person to least sketchy.

Agree

[Benmage]

Yes, I'm Yos' partner.

I'm pissed, shoulda just made me a VT...to many AS who was i suppose to bond...

Why can you not bond Aes Sedai? Spoilers might follow, but:

Elayne bonded Aviendha in the books, so women channelers can bond women channelers.

Asha'man bonded Aes Sedai in the books, so Aes Sedai can be bonded.

Anything I'm missing?

I'm starting to think your claim is a bit fishy.

Interesting point...i just doubt it in this scenario because of the three fails and all three being AS.

@KoC/MoS did you get any message about me trying to bond you, because it said the bondee could choose not to bond (KoC you might have to double check with mod)

[Benmage]

Nope, didn't get a message.
I'm also seriously wondering about Benmage's claim now... I found it most interesting that as soon as I said I had an idea about why he might not have bonded me, but I didn't want to claim at that point, he jumped on me as scum rather than accepting that - kinda like, oh, I dunno, scum pushing to out an important PR?

This is a lie…my first response was neutral at best. All you claimed was you had reasoning for why I probably failed to bond, and that you were sure MoS had his own ideas. At best I stated the reasoning could have been scum, but I certainly didn’t run with these accusations.

I think the next step is for people to reveal whether or not they used an ability each night.

You realize that this will right away tell the scum who has a useful ability and who does not, right?

Does it.. i mean we all have still/gentle...i'm sure we all have one of our own ajah powers as well... scum won't know what we're using... If scum are lying about abilities this might help catch them.

Maybe I’m missing it… explain how this is more beneficial to the scum?

Btw I don’t really agree with MoS that it should be the next step…just don’t see it telling the scum much. (I just woke up, maybe I am missing it too)

[Benmage]

@Mort. You got new detection results from the Mod.... i got nothing, who else had things change for them?

[Benmage]

But he still tried to still.

[Benmage]

Maybe I’m missing it… explain how this is more beneficial to the scum?

(shrug)

Person A claims he used an ability every single night.

Person B claims he has never used an ability at any point in the game.

You're scum. Who would you guess has an ability that's likely to be more of a threat to them? Out of player A and player B, which one is likely to be a cop, or a doctor, or a roleblocker, or some other key pro-town role? Who would you choose to kill?

Assuming that some people have used abilities more then other people, this helps scum figure out who to kill. (and if not, of course, it's useless anyway).

So a bunch of useless abilities were handed out?? I don’t think that’s what ML was implying. Suppose some are more like Old-KoC, a one time super power use.

Also I’m sure some others participated in gentling or different things that can be detected. The Doc has already been claimed and all he did was protect his partner. The roleblocker has already claimed (and guess what he lived claimed for a long ass time now…scummy??) I used abilities every night and if you didn’t know it was bond attempts you wouldn’t know what I was. So all there is, is a possible cop role, and I’m sure some varying flavor roles, who knows…I don’t see it as a major issue here.

@benmage: if your target can choose to not be bonded, why didn't you say so when you first full claimed? Your claim was certainly thorough, so it is odd that you left that out.

It is a One Power – Active – Green ability. I attempt to bond a warder during the twilight. First, I target a player. If this player can be bonded as a warder, they will be bonded to me.

A player can voluntarily choose not to be bonded to me

, however once bonded only I can break the bond. A bonded player gains new abilities, as the bond strengthens them and I will be able to communicate privately with them.

How did you interpret that ^^^^?

Also, because that is so completely opposite how it happens in the book, (Rand was bonded against his will by what's-her-name sedai) I'm very skeptical of your claim.

As good as Kinetic has done, this setup is by no means 100% bookish.

[Benmage]

Benmage: Uh, I'd rather not go into a great deal of speculation on what roles might be in the game, that seems unhelpful. I would say that, with 16 Aes Sedi, it's not possible that they ALL had real power roles, or else the game could not possibly be balanced. I think any farther talk on roles, or unneeded claims, or abulity claims, only helps the scum at this moment.

Of course it'll be balanced some of those 16 AS clearly aren't AS or are Black Ajah.

With Doc claimed Rb claimed…MoS who now claimed AS did some tricky cop-like stuff in finding Flay….sooo… getting further claims can in my opinion only help the ‘puzzle’.

To clarify, the results of these stilling attempts (which are actually tracking abilities when used this way) would NOT be posted in thread unless they prove someone scum or Black Ajah. Otherwise, we'd unncessarily out power as anyone who attempted to track (still) will obviously be the less powerful roles.

As for organization, it could work something like this:

If either TSS or Setael could be most helpful to town by tracking (targeting with still) they will attempt to still Benmage. NO ONE else is to attempt to still benmage. The most benmage woul possibly get targeted with is 2 so if he's protown he's safe. If a 3rd attempt is made we know it was done by scum.

This would be specified for each AS so no one can possibly be targeted for stilling by more than 2.

We could maybe even give a choice between 2... For example:

If macavity and sajin can best help the town by tracking/ still targeting, they will target setael or ABR Etc.

This would ensure everyone is truthful about where they sleep which would help immensely with the usefulness of detections and notes.

Opinions?

First, like I said even those doing less deemed power moves doesn’t mean they don’t have some sort of very powerful role as we saw with Old KoC(this is drastic speculation so take it as it is)

And 2nd!!!Why do I gotta be stilled?!?!

[Benmage]

Idno, a roleblocker lived for a long ass time, and not many people have a problem with that...

[Benmage]

I think MBL brought up good points about Benmage, though I don't think he answered my question that I asked him.

I don’t recall not answering any questions…which were these?

Sajin, have you, already as of this post, received your AS partner's recounting of his detected saidar (from your partner, obv, you've not gotten it from the mod)? If so, please post it in-thread. If not, no need to ask him now; I can assume he hasn't lied or you would likely have been up in arms already.

I feel safe asking this because I'm fairly sure I recall a list being posted on

your

behalf, so I am interested in seeing reciprocity.

Are you talking about T4 or T1, T3? I can post them if need be but I am not seeing the need to post all detections atm. Also: What is up with the order for claiming? Why that order?

Am I not following this correctly? I already in a sense claimed all Sajin’s detections.

[Benmage]

My updated (due to corruption) twilight 1 detections are:

2 from windmill
1 from silo
1 from barn
1 from river

can someone now clue me in as to what is going on?

your twilight

one

was recently edited....

[Benmage]

KoC: Does your heal use the one power?

Yes.

Then I think you're lying when you say you protected me last night, because it's not on my detect Saidar.

Unvote, Vote KoC

I believe that for Heal it would only go into effect if said person was attacked. If not no need for the ability to go off/need for detections. In this same respect I’m also assuming Heal has to be a daybreak action. Feel free to ask more about this as I am only speculating.

Due to my own error, several players have received a PM.

My twilight 4 detections have changed.

Still a SHADOW VOTE on ME!?!?!? Or does ML have two votes on me? As ML was claiming some sort of voting powers…

**Can we get everyone voting on me to vote for someone with no votes and see which (if any) turns up with two votes?

Claiming targets for me is going to force me to full claim probably. I do not wish to.

All TSS is asking you to do is claim what your partner detected for Twilight 4, right? Did I read his posts wrong somewhere?

I think he wants Sajin to claim targets not detections.

I meant, MBL hasn't answered.

Nor does he answer mine, but gives flippant responses and no one else seems to care.

Well, I can't explain this, but I don't seem to have several detects either from various nights. I have from Night 4:
Detect Saidar:
From the Barn: 2 from Windmill, 1 from Blacksmith, 1 from River, 1 to Silo, 1 to Windmill

Huh.. that’s a shit ton of detects for twilight 4.

BTW I noticed, everyone is simply claiming twil 4 detects…not the whole game any reasoning that I missed??

If anyone from the blacksmith or windmill targeted the barn and can say so without claiming, that would help narrow it down.

I was at the windmill and tried to bond Seraphim/KoC who slept barn.

@KoC/Mod any new pms occurred here or need occur here about twilight 4 detections?

[Benmage]

Who was keeping twilight 4 sleep locations together so I can look at them in iso, or if someone can repost those sleeping barn twilight 4.

I ask this, because mine and KoC detections do not match up. I want to essentially get information from the person KoC claims to have detected targeting the windmill...have them comfoward with who they targeted. (Maybe if possible what they did)

[Benmage]

They look blank to me...

[Benmage]

Wow weird...mafia beach bash.

[Benmage]

I can think of other reasons why ABR might have guessed it, but I'll let ABR defend himself. More importantly, Yos2, who did you target Night 1, and what ability did you use?

Didn't he just state no target night one?

[Benmage]

How did KoC's action not show up... Maybe i overread. KoC doc'd Goat right? Slept barn...was Goat with me at the windmill?

(Still needs to view twilight 4 locations again so I don't have to ask these lookupable questions)

[Benmage]

Yes....this makes sense! Unvote me quickly!

Get inline jerk!

I will not be voting either way on the KoC/JVW issue until my other theory is resolved. I may have a better person to vote for after that.

Drum roll…I hope you have a doctor, because a better person than a scum…scum can’t be liking you. All I’m getting at is at least don’t leave us in the dark if you know someone else to be scum if by chance you die tonight.

[Benmage]

I'm Yellow Ajah. I healed him that night. As it turns out, he died anyway, which means that at least two people tried to kill him.

This isn't 100% now is? I thought I've heard of games where a doc protection blocks all attacks...JVW does yours specifically state it blocked only one attack?

I'm Yellow Ajah. I healed him that night. As it turns out, he died anyway, which means that at least two people tried to kill him.

This suggests

5

kill attempts over Twi 1. Color me incredulous.

Hmmm..maybe dismemberment was unblockable.

Yeah, we were both at Windmill. My detect Saidar didn't have anyone targeting the windmill, thus it looked like KoC was lying about targeting me.

Kinetic sent me a corrected twilight 4 detect that included 1 from the barn to the mill, which would match KoC's claimed actions and throws my KoC is obviously lying scum theory down the trash.

Ah yes, I received the PM and read it wrong…I thought it replaced my original pm, not added to it.

So my twilight for detections are as follows:
2 from the windmill to the barn.
1 from the barn to the windmill.

1 from the barn.

Yes, well done, I was sleeping in the barn. That detect is me, you bloody idiot.
Thank you for making me feel very paranoid.
Since Goat has had his amendment, I feel more secure about him as pro-town for now - most of my worry was centred on what looked like a deliberate fake-detect from him to try and dump me in it. But, seeing as that was Kinetic's fault... meh. THe reaction worries me, in that my action, and by extension my role, has been almost entirely confirmed by his new detects and yet he still finds me more scummy than JVW-obvscum is... odd.

I was making this same detect mistake.

[Benmage]

In fact, SpyreX could be gentled male forsaken that is now killing through mundane methods because he lost the use of the One Power.

Cool perspective/idea to use with a mad MC in one of these games.

[Benmage]

I assumed the stables and silo were eliminated as a function of how many players are alive. Is there something in the flavor that makes this a scum-driven action versus a simple reduction to keep the usefulness of town powers in check?

I too saw it as a mod move.

I agree with MoS, when I saw the number of locations decrease, I thought "the mod is doing that to maintain a game-relevant locations-to-players ratio".

Now where in his theory did he give cause for any of the killing factions to use a night to eliminate sleeping locations instead of killing? Didn’t he rule out needing to sleep in same location to kill?

I think one of them

I

generated by a town power role and maybe the 2nd one is generated by scum meant to deceive.

huh is that I suppose to be an is?

I agree one note is obviously some sort of fake.

[Benmage]

I think that TSS's long post contains way too many assumptions to be all that useful.

I've just had a thought about Isacc being a Gholam: the OP doesn't affect Gholams. That might be why my protect failed, if Isacc did indeed dismember Shadow Knight.

But you were ostensibly healing

SK

, so it doesn't particularly make sense that your power would've failed due to Isacc. Anyway,

unvote. Vote: JVW.

This works for me too.

Unvote Vote JVW

[Benmage]

I would like to point out, Shadow Knight was killed twice over, so JVW is probalby full of shit anyways.

unvote, vote: MoS

B.S.

Can those of you with detects please boldly fill in our sleeping chart with where Shadow Knight slept N1?

Oh, whoops, I mistook Shadow Knight for Knight of Cydonia. Goddamn similar names.

Ah crap i made the same mistake.

Unvote

[Benmage]

Well, I don't think it changes the fact that JVW is probably scum, but it *does* change my claim that the person he claims to have targeted was killed twice.

Precisely i jumped a little bit with my vote, missing the name thing. I'm still considering the other arguments, do find him scummy and may reput my vote back.

[Benmage]

Also, where did ShadowKnight (and the other dead people) sleep? C'mon, magic weirdos, use your voodoo.

Hmm...

Here's a thought...I find an anomaly..KoC knows where old KoC slept...

If there is some sort of connection amongst sleep locations and killing we could use all twilight one detections to find out if incinerated was generated by the OP could we not? Moreover we could probably discover if the killer resided in the same room. Even if we didn't openly know it, KoC might simply because of information/detection we provide.

The crux is if KoC is Black Ajah/scum. He could have inside information and leading us down a spirraling different path/tangent. If sameroom killing is a requirement (hinted to by issac a killing role) that would also help explain the mods reduction in rooms.

Setting up information in which KoC gains some sort of advantage for being put back into the game is not something I am obviously advocating. I am suggesting that KoC in my opinion must have more game knowledge than the rest of us. The additional knowledge seems too threatening. In my opinion I think KoC replaced back in and is scum.

I don't mean to try and derail the puzzle path we are on, but I just thought of this and found it interesting. A vote on KoC at this point seems worthless so I won't. But personally I think his additional knowlegde makes him a threat to the town, and we should consider lynching, if not today soon.

[Benmage]

Alright bad rant by me...

anywhos

vote JVW

[Benmage]

Again, for the 12th time, if you think finding scum in this game is as easy as seeing which players resist the 8 billion Saidar uses in this game, you're retarded.

Counterargument: Isacc.

sexy

[Benmage]

mmmm alright i'm in

[Benmage]

My targets:

N1: Mr. Flay
N2: Didn't submit in time
N3: Benmage
N4: Albert B. Rampage

Wait...mort you RB right?

[Benmage]

forgive me, you haven't claim yet?

[Benmage]

So everyone see the shadow vote on JVW...

[Benmage]

The shadow vote is likely an aes sedai action and they could probably remove it if they wanted to.

I am willing to vote JVW. There is a lot of claiming that needs to happen first though.

I'm assuming it is ML's because he said something alone the lines of vote manipulation.

However we should never assume SpryeX was 100% gentled and should be wary. He himself admits it would be an error for the town to have him go to the end of this game.

[Benmage]

And by the way, aren't all you magic fools supposed to be claiming

tonight's

targets, not previous nights' targets?

I thought we were claiming sleeping locations..not targets...

i thought the targets claiming was done after first claiming AS, than partners, than detects..and now targets..i think next is abilities idno

[Benmage]

The timeline works for both Gholams and Forsaken.

[Benmage]

I still can't believe that, JVW aside, MBL is skating another day without claiming his business. That's just pro.

It has been quite impressive. The other two non AS have full claimed, and he floats by. I don't understand how other people aren't annoyed at this... Isn't this what led to my claim, because I demanded a full claim due to being tired of his secrecy/above the rest of us when it came to claiming things...everyone jumped all over me, terrible...And yet no one has turned back to put pressure on him...its disgusting. It just writes off him and ML and no one cares.

[Benmage]

@MBL

, do me a favor and in your next post unvote. In that same post, you can reapply your vote if you like.

Wtf…somebody’s doing something o.O

I think it is a detection error that is leading to JVW’s suspicion. I agree though, town sacrifice for finding scum is 100% worth it. (save being in lylo…but in our games position totally worth it)

And that apparently pisses off a few scum in this crew badly, including the scumlikely JVW.

Than replace the vote?

OK, MBL please vote for whoever you like, though please make it not on JVW for now. I'd like to get this out of the way today.

Oh nm…this is weird.

I'm changing to koc for a few reasons.

unvote, vote: KoC

This seems like a waste perhaps to sidetrack us. If JVW flips town, KoC is the next logical lynch. I know that isn’t the best answer, but 1 town for 1 scum is all checks in my book.

FoS Setael

[Benmage]

Someone should claim all Silo Twi 1 detections.

Huh?

The timeline works for both Gholams and Forsaken.

Not really.

Night Three, I healed Kison. Detects: 1 to river, 1 to barn, 2 from silo, 2 to silo

I confess that I don't understand these results - can somebody else clarify? It seems that I got some specific results and some less specific detects. Either that or the '2 from silo' and '2 to silo' were made by people

in

the silo.


Night four, I healed MoS. However, ABR roleblocked me, so I don't think I have any saidar actions on the radar. However, my detects were: 1 to blacksmith, 1 from barn, one from blacksmith

JVW specifically said he wasn't roleblocked, so his Saidar use should have been detected, even if it failed.

If I did, I didn't mean to. I was definitely roleblocked.

I don't think I can say much more. I've made my point about MBL as best I can. Thus:

unvote, vote: KoC

And be done with it.

All I was saying was that the gholams and forsaken have both already been shown to exist. The game is obviously not following step by step the books as I believe I mention it not being 100% bookish beforehand.

Night 3, I am assuming you must have slept Silo. That is why you have those detects. You detect where the OP goes from the room you stay in and you detect when the OP is used on your room.

How do you know you were definitely roleblocked? Didn’t others who claimed to be roleblocked not announce that it was obvious, or were uncertain if they were or were not roleblocked. (I still didn’t understand not knowing if one was RB or not)..this might shed light on the Yos2 ABR/Mort detections or lack there of with RB’s…

Julienvonwolfe, did you tell your original partner Tenchi (who Yosarian2 replaced) that you were a Yellow Ajah doctor? Because he was at River and could have roleblocked you if he knew you were going to protect ShadowKnight.

Yos2 claims Tenchi did nothing, but that's not necessarily true, as Tenchi could have put the order in any time before lynch.

Also, did you get a message from the mod saying that you were roleblocked?

Tenchi knew that I was Yellow Ajah, though I didn't tell him the exact details of my role.

I did get a message saying that my heal was, to paraphrase, forestalled/stopped/whatever, when I tried to heal MoS. I didn't on night one when I tried to heal Shadow Knight.

Could that mean he just wasn’t attacked?

Your detects now match up with KoC, I believe, meaning KoC's neck isn't on the line if you come up town.

What changed?

Thanks Kinetic. Please note that in the vote count, MBL is not listed as voting even though he obviously just voted for me. I claim responsibility for this. This is proof that he is not immune to the One Power, and thus not a Gholam. MBL, in about 24 hours, you will be able to vote again as per normal. That concludes this test of the Emergency Gholam Detection System.

Has this been done before? I’m curious because would we receive OP detects from the day room. Fabian hinted at this day one, but he was claiming the male, not female detection…I’m just curious if we would detect this usage (assuming it is done with the OP)

[Benmage]

Has this been done before? I’m curious because would we receive OP detects from the day room. Fabian hinted at this day one, but he was claiming the male, not female detection…I’m just curious if we would detect this usage (assuming it is done with the OP)

Yes, I have used it on at least Days 3 and 5, including a Day 5 use before this one on MBL. I forget if I used it during other days.

So you get day and night actions.

[Benmage]

@MoS

I'm almost certain those N1 detections are my own despite failing, because I've recieved obvious detections that all appear my own for everynight, and I've failed each time .

[Benmage]

I disagree with Setael, is Setael claiming the first two notes are his? Is he also claiming this last note that all 4 people are innocent is his??

Sajin has told me the locations he planned on targeting with his ability before he did so in our QT. I think Setael took a gamble here and failed. Setael has to be scum imo. I'd rather swing votes to him

Unvote

I was auto'd Windmill and don't plan on changing it, however what if we all reside in one location get a note and know exactly how many scum we're dealing with.

One of you yellows better freaking protect Sajin tonight.

[Benmage]

Sajin, why didn't you mention the discrepancy between the notes until just now when you roleclaimed? I would think you'd have been excited to out the 2nd Brown since the start of this game day, knowing they're almost certainly scum.

What was Setael's N1 action again? (was is gentle spryex?)

[Benmage]

Sajin said nothing til Setael claimed.

And Setael already said his actions N123 were none, none, roleblocked.

This can't be right.. Setael what were your night actions this game?

[Benmage]

I have received detection results for N1, N3 & N4 but the only time my action was successful was N4 and even then it's debatable since I didn't know which note was mine and I therefore didn't know which one was true.

Interesting....

Mufasa RB...as his gambler thing doesn't make a lot of since imo.

That makes Yos, and ABR RB's and mufasa...seems a bit much.

[Benmage]

He told the truth about his role as far as I can see. I thought he was lying and was a scum roleblocker. Since he came up gambler, I see no reason to disbelieve he was a RB and "sent me a hooker" or whatever like he said.

Ya alright...still odd the notes are different. Think its possible to get wrong results from a note? Or one to be idno...'niave' or something... I think we should let you both live for now. Each should claim to target different locations so we can get two notes.

Lets go back to the JVW-KoC 1-1 thing for now.

Vote JVW

[Benmage]

Whose iso has the n4 sleep locations again?

[Benmage]

I like the idea of having only one person sleep at a location to see if they're scum or not...however what about if we have everyone else stay at a single location to see how many scum we are dealing with.

[Benmage]

I like the idea of having only one person sleep at a location to see if they're scum or not...however what about if we have everyone else stay at a single location to see how many scum we are dealing with.

Sounds like a waste of the ability to find scum.

How so?

[Benmage]

My proposal is that I research the River and we require KoC to sleep there. Everyone else stay at one of the other three locations, which sajin will research.

If not enough people want to just know how many antitown players we have, we could instead have sajin research one person as well (one person alone stays at the windmill or somewhere that sajin will search.

Opinions?

Please no one else vote JVW until this is decided, as once the lynch is reached it will be too late to orchestrate where everyone sleeps.

This isn't a good plan. KoC's alignment is tied to JVW's, so testing him alone would be kind of a waste if we plan to lynch JVW anyway.

I think testing people individually is a weak use of the role. I'd much rather test groups of roughly 3 players. It will serve much more useful in the long run. It won't tell us immediately what someone's alignment is, but it'll be far more effective in clearing people a few days down the line.

I would rather have Yos2 stay at a location by himself and have Setael get a note for that location than do it for KoC. We will know based on JVW's death whether or not to lynch KoC. Yos2 is a much better option for this plan. As for the other three locations, the notes are only useful if we claim locations beforehand, and nothing really prevents the scum from lying anyway.

I still think we should all stay in one location and have a note check us all. This way we know exactly how many scum/anti town roles are left. If scum doesn't choose to be in the room, we'll see the missing numbers and know scum lied/chose not to stay in the room and still know how many anti-town roles are remianing.

[Benmage]

I'd rather use the note givers in a more productive fashion. Knowing how many scum are left is inferior to attempting to pinpoint those scum.

I yield this, plus Sajins detections thing..you're right we'll probably gather more information spread out claiming targets than detections ect ect..it seems to be helping right now. Following Sajins last post looks like this'll turn into a 1-1 atm now as well, and yeah I'd rather not mislynch the doc...soo...

unvote vote Setael

[Benmage]

But if the roles are "exact" and I don't know if we can fully test this..it is odd that two interpretations of the same role exist especially with both claiming town, and the obvious differing notes. At this point its this case or JVW-KoC one...i'm assuming you prefer the other one.

[Benmage]

Also, would people PLEASE stop claiming where you plan to sleep? All you are doing is handing scum the means to frame you. Your Aes Sedai partner can tell us where you slept if you die.

Not if the partner is Black and lies about it.

[Benmage]

Sincerely,
The Neighborhood Gholam

Doucheeeebaggg string him up!

[Benmage]

(ABR says he hit Isacc, then says he hit Kairyuu, but it could have been SK)

What does this mean?

[Benmage]

Oh nm, explained.

[Benmage]

There is no role conflict when one roleblocker targets another one. That roleblocker loses their action, obviously.

In this game, MOS, that is simply wrong. I checked with the mod.

If two roleblockers have the same ability that happens in the same "phase" (in this case, twilight), then they both happen at the same time, which means that one roleblocker simply can not roleblock another one.

If you don't believe me, ask the mod yourself.

This is terrible.
Does this mean Roleblock can’t block any twilight actions? Wouldn’t that be the next logical step?

I agree with MBL's reasoning here. After we lynch JVW, I think we need to look hard at ABR/Mora.

Morat doesn’t scream scum to me tho. Abr ehhh kinda does.

[Benmage]

@all: Please note that deadline is Sunday. We need to get to lynching ASAP. Setael's "naive" idea is quite scummy in my view, and I think we should lynch him.

^This... Although since deadline is rapdily approaching if the JVW wagon looks more favorable I am willing to switch as thats a 1-1 and this is a 1-1.

[Benmage]

Kai said he only motivates daybreak actions. This was shown when he claimed to of motivated ABR and got nothing changed. This was than believed that all killing actions are daybreak actions.

@MBL yes those are my twilight one detections.

[Benmage]

BTW my OP/bond action is a twilight action. I stated this in my claim.

[Benmage]

It is a possible theory and would explain three kills instead of 4, seeing as if he had the 2 kill as a standard power and got motivated one would think he'd kill 4, not 3.

[Benmage]

IDK, this seems really loose. The part that rings wrong with me is GR trying to use the "Its too stupid to be a lie" defense.

Indeed Kinetic stressed the complexity of this game is going to be incedibly difficult. I'm down for this 1-1 thing, but we may also want to consider who just believe to be ole fashion scummy.

[Benmage]

Having a twilight kill as a SK makes sense in this game for balance AND it is the Razor in regards to the missing events.

You recognize that this means Issac had a twilight kill and a daybreak kill for only the daybreak action could have been motivated.

[Benmage]

Although Forsaken at this time were predominately at this time female some could be male and thus using an undetected One Power.

[Benmage]

This is still the end of the war of power. Most of the initial converts were female AS, which became the Forsaken.

[Benmage]

That part where we had to pull teeth to get ABR to comment on Fabians detections when SK did it so quickly and only than did ABR comment is a real stinger for me...ABR for scumminess is a good target imo.

[Benmage]

Time is running out, need 2 more for set.

[Benmage]

That's L-1 right. Any last words we wanna hear from Setael?

[Benmage]

I have no idea what is going on.

You haven't caught up on 130 pages yet? You've had plenty of time...

You can't be serious.. give the guy a break...

[Benmage]

Daybreak actions are due by 5/7, 11:59 PM

Uhh what month are you on?

[Benmage]

bah meant to pm

[Benmage]

Goat after the first day or so..after a few post this becomes you’re activity.
Posts: May 14--May 16--May 21--May 29/29--June 4--June 9--June 14

Basically you played half the beginning of this game inactive. Stop being a douchebag the guy just replaced in, 130 pages…over the holiday weekend… if he does it in a week I’ll be happy.

He's probably from a country that uses the day/month/year format.

That makes sense, I might have been breaking a rule with that post
.

[Benmage]

Ugh, the pressure of the deadline over a holiday weekend stunk.

[Benmage]

Actually, we're pretty sure Mr. Flay was the incineration kill from Twilight 1. Why are you ignoring that?

In addition, I believe that one of the kill methods (probably strangling) is a result of the Forsaken losing Mr. Flay and needing someone else to perform their kills. This is why I believe SpyreX is a good candidate for gentled Forsaken, since the current kill methods do not use the One Power, most likely.

This is a peculair assumtion.

[Benmage]

IMO if you were using good old fashioned scumhunting, you'd take a really good look at benmage. He pushed my lynch from the beginning and now is trying to jump on the "deadline made me do it" excuse. If he really thought I was scum he would be glad the deadline pressure helped lynch me and he clearly is not. Because he knows I'm going to flip town.

No, I had simply forgotten that you were away. Lynching someone whose away sucks, and we did so because of the deadline. It’s our own fault as town for dragging the day as long as we did.

[Benmage]

I call BS.

[Benmage]

Is anyone else bothered by the fact that MoS apparently did not use Saidar N1?

Didn't notice, this is true MoS?

[Benmage]

Is anyone else bothered by the fact that MoS apparently did not use Saidar N1?

heh. Unlike you, I can confirm myself at any time, should it become necessary. However, that would require revealing the full details of my role, which only helps scum. My partner, Moratorium, can confirm that there is a good reason why I was not detected using Saidar N1.

But you did do an actions...you weren't just passive, correct?

[Benmage]

I wasn't being serious.

Mybad

I think you should lynch benmage.

[Benmage]

I targerted SpryeX huzzah.

[Benmage]

Interesting MoS/Arm.

We should not ignore the 0 deaths with Mort being blocked once more.

@charter who did you RB?

[Benmage]

So what are we suggesting now...everyone claims their color?

[Benmage]

2) MoS continues to play shadily. No one claim a color until Mort does.

4) Curious to know the results of Benmage's night action eventually.

The winks didn't give it away....

How can you call someone else's play shady. Yours is the shadiest!

[Benmage]

MoS is deliberately trying to get the other player with similar abilities to claim their Ajah colour before Moratorium does. I can't help but suspect that they have scummy motives for doing this.

Alrighty than, let's have Mort claim first.

@Goat ...curious what you did/discovered.

[Benmage]

@Goat ...curious what you did/discovered.

I won't go into the dirty specifics of exactly what I did, but my discovery was that you like to prance around in women's underwear. Do you deny?

Damn, i plead the 5th.

[Benmage]

Morat did already claim tracker. If MoS knows Morat's color, I'm willing to allow this other tracker to claim their color first.

[Benmage]

Damn me spam posting, but I'm guessing its going to be...blue?

[Benmage]

Damn me spam posting, but I'm guessing its going to be...blue?

Why would you guess this? Why would you guess at all? This is ridiculously scummy.

How.. the green bonds, the red roleblocks, the brown drops notes, the white vote manipulates, the yellow protects..he claimed tracker w.t.f. is left, blue!

Go home.

[Benmage]

Damn me spam posting, but I'm guessing its going to be...blue?

Why would you guess this? Why would you guess at all? This is ridiculously scummy.

How.. the green bonds, the red roleblocks, the brown drops notes, the white vote manipulates, the yellow protects..he claimed tracker w.t.f. is left, blue!

Go home.

Gray. Learn to count.

Right well explain how it was scummy.

[Benmage]

You answered a question directed at others, asked in such a manner so as to hopefully catch scum if answered wrong.

Pfft it was a just a simple statement. It took me 1/2 a second to think of the other possible ajahs, maybe if i waited for a whole second I would've remembered grey as well. Not like it was gonna change. MoS knew the color beforehand.

You think both MoS and Mort are scum?
I don't think it so "ridiculously" scummy.
The only scum possibilty aspect, that is so farfetched would be me being scum with Mort and knowing he was blue...but w.t.f would I make that statement than. To farfetched.

You jumping on me and thinking it so scummy is much more telling of a scum action...especially since where the hell have you been as of late?

[Benmage]

And now you've gone and fucked it up. Thanks, Benmage.
That was done so inelegantly, it's almost impossible to believe that wasn't intentional.

geeze... worst trap ever

[Benmage]

lets get a color from tss, or arm next imo.

[Benmage]

:Headdesk:

Good job, benmage. Now we get no information from Mort's claim, and we get no infromation if another blue claims. The whole idea was to test Mort's claim by asking him what color he was, or else to test the hypothetical other blue's claim by getting that guy to claim first; either way we might have gotten something. So why would you speculate on what color he was first rather then see that?

*Stare* it was the worst trap ever...geeze

[Benmage]

:Headdesk:

Good job, benmage. Now we get no information from Mort's claim, and we get no infromation if another blue claims. The whole idea was to test Mort's claim by asking him what color he was, or else to test the hypothetical other blue's claim by getting that guy to claim first; either way we might have gotten something. So why would you speculate on what color he was first rather then see that?

*Stare* it was the worst trap ever...geeze

No, we should have had the other Blue claim before revealing Moratorium's color. It was idiocy to do otherwise. But then, that's par for the course for you, isn't it?

Pfft everyone else but you was pushing for Mort to claim first….setting up this magnificent trap…lol…I saved us all some time.

Wait, why are people suddenly claiming colors? What happened to the targeting claims? I realize that the people who haven't target-claimed yet need prods (beside MBL, who needs death, but his target-claim wouldn't help us as much anyway) but what good does color-claiming do? Even the Black Ajah would presumably have 'original' colors they could claim.

Again, I’d like tss or arm to claim color next.

This is interesting.

Red Ajah.

Wait…how many roleblockers do we have now…

ACtually, TSS had a good poitn.

Why is everyone claiming color now?

Because some people will have to triple up on colors, and those people are probably scum.

Agree.

V/LA till Sunday.

[Benmage]

Also, I'd be pretty happy lynching charter today; Albert's been high on my list of suspects for a long time, and I don't get why he'd block the motivator.

This

Apparently, I am not a Red Ajah. I am of the Amyrlin Seat, whatever that means, and I do not have a official color. I do have a red ability, hence my assumption. The only night I used it however was the night of the mass RB, partly due to the name being misleading and partly due to worrying about possible implications of chain RB's on KC at that point. I have used other abilities every other night.

…

I would like to hear armlx explain what abilities, passive or otherwise, he gains from being Amyrlin Seat.

Me too

And that is everyone. Next we all claim locations and detections. Order first four=Yos, Benmage, charter, MOS.

Lol, fuck no. You and Arm go first.

It would help me judge whether I think you are protown or not.

It would help scum judge whether or not I should die tonight as well.

Take your pick. I really don't see your point as a valid reason to publicly claim.

I do, yours is the off-beat claim. That’s how we caught Fabian and Mufasa, the claims didn’t make sense.

[Benmage]

My Ajah color and abilities have been confirmed in thread. The fact that I am not explicitly claiming them doesn't change anything. It only helps scum to know the exact details of my role.

I don’t know about this. And your whole “catch” was really Morats tracking.

I didn't really have a problem with you defending benmage, MOS, but I find it odd you're now denying it.

Everyone was mad at me because they wanted Mort to claim first. MoS was mad at me because he wanted the other blue to go first. We would’ve sat in an endless circle with both sides waiting for the other, and so what I threw a random shot in the dark. It was such a god awful trap, play better. I’ve been so town this game it hurts.

Does anyone even notice how much JVW has fallen off the radar?

All our suspects always seem to go away. Truth or scum tactic? Now charter is V/La too...lol, this game is realllly going places.

[Benmage]

Armlx, can you give us something more about your role. It sounds like one of those farfetched ones we've already strung up.

[Benmage]

Either way, we might have gotten some information. You made absolutly sure we got none. Why, exactally, did you "throw a random shot in the dark"? Do you understand it's bad to be speculating about other people's roles like that, right?

Unless he was the biggest retard in the world unable to figure out the two missing ajah we weren’t gaining any information. It was so idiotic I honestly didn’t realize it was a trap, because of how deplorable it was.

Random shot = me guessing his ajah color.
It meant nothing it was me being lighthearted and humorous in a serious game. Because quite frankly I play these as a game for fun so relax.

MoS KNEW HIS AJAH before hand anyways. So there was no lying to be done…. Do you believe both to be scum?

It was such a god awful trap, play better.

Who was this directed at?

It’s at whoever realistically is mad at me, or thinks anything could’ve been achieved. As if any outcome would have been different if I didn’t say blue and Mort gave his claim beforehand. WOULD anything be different had that been the case??? NO.

I’ve been so town this game it hurts.

:eyebrow:

I’ve been so town this game it hurts.

[Benmage]

Armlx, can you give us something more about your role. It sounds like one of those farfetched ones we've already strung up.

This fish is not hungry for your worm on a hook.

Vote Armlx

Than do something in this game. Looking at you in iso, you have done nothing. You haven't contributed your posts are useless so why are you even bothering.

You gave a bizarre claim. In the past the bizarre claims have been scum. That plus you doing nothing to benefit this game warrants my vote.

[Benmage]

As if any outcome would have been different if I didn’t say blue and Mort gave his claim beforehand. WOULD anything be different had that been the case??? NO.

What if you didn't say help him out with his claim and Mort said the wrong color?

Or what if we got the other tracker to claim first (not necessarally today), and he claimed the wrong color?

Because the intelligence level of an infant could of deduced which color to say. I didn’t even think twice about it or realize it was a trap because it was so moronic.
-Other tracker claimed wrong color?? Doesn’t work if Mort already claimed, as I suggested if I didn’t say Blue and only Mort did.

Lol. So, you're going to stick with the same "I'm town" defense MOS was just using, huh?

The defense has been my play. I could retell you everything I’ve done. But hopefully you’ve been following the game. If not read me in iso.

MoS KNEW HIS AJAH before hand anyways. So there was no lying to be done…. Do you believe both to be scum?

I don't know. I don't think it's especally likely.

Hey guys Yos is scum.

Because there is no way Moratorium could have changed his claim based on what anyone else has claimed. He claimed his role info to me on Day 1

I don’t know how the scum PM’s work YoS. But I was told my partners Ajah in my role PM.

[Benmage]

He pulled something stupid that made absolutely no sense, and yet he actually believe it was the right thing to do.

Mmm pardon the semantics, but it wasn’t I thought it was “the right thing to do” it’s just I didn’t think twice about, nor think it was a bad thing. (still don’t think it was bad)

Um...THERE WERE TWO COLORS LEFT. How could anyone "with the intellegence level of an infant" have figure out if the tracker role would be blue or grey, or perhaps something else like Amyrilian Seat, based on the information we had? Explain this to me, please. You seem to have arrived at the conclusion just by forgetting about an entire color...

Right, I said that ages ago, Benmage. So if Moretoriam lies about his Ajah and MOS backs him up, we know they're scum together. Which is what Knight was trying to figure out.

You still fail to acknowledge that MoS knew the color beforehand. Are you suggesting that they are both scum? Do you believe them both to be scum? Yes or no.

So yea, I guess I don't see any logic behind KoC's attack on Benmage for "ruining" his trap, because the only way Benmage could have ruined it is if he himself was protown and had just helped scum.

Therefore, KoC *should* be concluding that Benmage is protown, not scum.

I’ve been so town this game it hurts.

charter, how do you feel about Sajin, considering that Setael is now confirmed protown?

Related to charter, but also asked to us all. Let me hold on for second. Quick question did everyone claim who they targeted before we went onto this color claim?

And why the fuck should I claim anything just because you say so? And has no-one noticed that MoS seems to have a shitload of abilities while the rest of us generally have one, plus the AS-wide powers of detect, still and gentle? He's claimed some kind of psuedo-cop bullcrap in the past which got Flay(and that early in the game, in a Large, bussing is entirely possible), now he's got a ghost-vote too? With all due respect, MoS, you can take your town-leading, scummy as hell bullcrap, and stick it so far up your ass you choke on it.

I did notice this, but kinda wrote it off when Mort brought forth the idea that he tracked him, and that’s how MoS did the cop-thing. I don’t know if we can cite MoS for lying, I’ll look into his iso, but I doubt it. I was concerned as why Mort himself didn’t take up the case, but rather MoS “lead” it.

[Benmage]

Do you know all aspects of arm's claim, via your QT?

[Benmage]

My Ajah claim can be verified. TSS should claim his first.

I'm ok with this, especially since TSS seems to be afraid to tell us his ajah color.

I'd like this as well.

[Benmage]

Oh yeah, and has all of our targets been listed for last night?

[Benmage]

Fine. Just to bullet. You agree it was testing an issue you didn't even believe to be true. Using a trap you agree was a poor setup. That said I blundered "rushing-headlong" and posting early.

[Benmage]

Oh yeah, and has all of our targets been listed for last night?

If this is true, does anyone have a copy of it, or should I start sorting it out myself. I ask this because I think It can lead to a scum-find for today.

[Benmage]

if you didn't like the trap, you could have just supported MOS's plan instead.

I didn't see the trap at first

[Benmage]

Benmage, I listed the targets already. All you have to add is MOS's.

Ahh thanks, i'll look it up in your iso.

My location was unchanged since that end of day not end of day fiasco. Where I was randomed Windmill. My detections match the other Windmillers.

I'm awaiting your color.

[Benmage]

None of these read like someone who "didn't see the trap."

The "geeze" "stares" etc was all because I couldn't believe people felt so strongly this was a realistic 'good' trap. Regardless stop dwelling on this. Its been over. Continue.

[Benmage]

I think it's pretty obvious that there will be no surprises in the final color claims. I don't know why you guys are making fusses about it. Let's just hunt scum.

I agree, although I'd still like the color claims.

Who are your top scum/town suspects. Who do you think is our best lynch target?

[Benmage]

I have already given my detections stating I resided in my auto-assigned Windmill and that they match other windmill claims.

[Benmage]

You don't use your QT much do you..

[Benmage]

You aren't first on my list for scum, but the person who is first on my list for scum (among the Power roles) has already claimed, so that's okay.

If, by this time tomorrow, MOS has not claimed, my offer of a color claim as a good-faith showing will be rescinded. It is information you don't need and it will not benefit the town to have, so rescindment does not reflect badly on me, but MOS's continued intransigence on claiming detections -- which we

do

need -- reflects very badly indeed on him. JVW should also go immediately-type soon, but the one who is here and posting is avoiding the question harder.

I very much intend to claim my color/location/detections today, but I'm not going to go first, because I see no good reason to offer up that information for free. You and Goat give me your color claims, and I'll tell you what you want to know.

Is this where I guess the obvious and save us all an additional headache of useless loops.

[Benmage]

I was clearly being sarcastic. I'm all in favor of wasting time so we can speed lynch at the deadline again...(more sarcasm)

[Benmage]

Alright well if this is a lie we lynch TSS.

vote Yosarian2

[Benmage]

I am Grey Ajah, obviously.

Phew, glad I didn't ruin that. I was gonna say orange.

[Benmage]

I'm pretty sure those fall under opinions, so they aren't lies.

Armlx, there was one very specific part of the role PM I am talking about. One specific line, in talking about the first oath, where it quite specifically says that you can't say you know someone is scum if you don't. Again, just go back and read your role PM, and then read what I typed up there, right after I first claimed Aes Sedi. It should be clear to any pro-town Aes Sedi that I have the same three oaths as everyone else does.

Because noone has access to the mini...oh wait.

[Benmage]

Yos, i don't understand you even complaining here. If you die and are town we'll kill TSS an obvious scum if you’re innocent. The only conclusion is your scum trying to fight to stay alive....not gonna happen.

[Benmage]

Target claims so far:

KOC II: Goat
JVW: MOS
Yos: Moratorium
armlx: Setael
tss: Yosarian
Ben: SpyreX
Sajin: River
Moratorium: SpyreX
charter: Kairyuu
Goat: Benmage
MacLock: Sajin

Kairyuu: Sajin
SpyreX: none
MBL: who knows?

There is something terribly wrong here...

[Benmage]

Who has were everyone slept last night?

[Benmage]

@Mort What was the reasoning behind tracking SpryeX?

[Benmage]

I know, and I also know that people have obviously lied about who they targeted. (more to come shortly)

Everyone listed where they slept last night correct? Do we have that in someones iso?

[Benmage]

He didn't go anywhere did he?

[Benmage]

I have no clue, I appear to have been roleblocked.

So your tracker ability is not a twilight action?

[Benmage]

No, it is Daybreak.

That seems so illogical, no? Not saying i don't believe you. But how would one explain tracking a twilight action, when you don't track till daybreak.

Curious
@Goat, did you see me visit SpryeX last night, as Bond is twilight, and you're tracker ability is daybreak.

[Benmage]

I don't know what just happened... but I got a new pm:

Windmill
2 from Windmill
1 from Blacksmith
1 from Barn
1 to Barn
1 to Blacksmth
2 to Windmill
1 to River

[Benmage]

No, it is Daybreak.

That seems so illogical, no? Not saying i don't believe you. But how would one explain tracking a twilight action, when you don't track till daybreak.

Curious
@Goat, did you see me visit SpryeX last night, as Bond is twilight, and you're tracker ability is daybreak.

I know, and I also know that people have obviously lied about who they targeted. (more to come shortly)

Everyone listed where they slept last night correct? Do we have that in someones iso?

I apparently lied or deceived in one of these two posts and lost my powers. Some help in where I did this.

[Benmage]

Thats what I figured..but based on my QT, that's something I truly believe...

[Benmage]

Well let me repharse in hopes of gaining back my powers...

I don't know if people have lied about who they targeted.

[Benmage]

Fun game thanks Kinetic.

I gotta say I really was disappointed I got modkilled for jackassery. I was utterly confused that I lost my powers. It was because of purposeful lying/deceptions...but this clearly wasn't the case.

Apparenlty I lied to everyone saying bond was a twilight action. It was indeed a Daybreak action...but when reading my role I believed it to be a twilight:

Bond Warder – One Power - Active - Green – You may attempt to bond a warder during the

twilight.

Target a player. If this player can be bonded as a warder, they will be bonded to you. A player may voluntarily choose not to be bonded to you, however once bonded only you can break the bond. A bonded player gains new abilities, as the bond strengthens them and you will be able to communicate privately with them.


I had started to doubt Sajin and think that I and SpryeX could've done some beneficial town moves. My modkilled handed them the game and ruined the integrity of the game. I wasn't being malicious in my moves to warrant the modkill in my opinion. The overall goal is fun....oh well. No hard feelings.

[Benmage]

I could not determine if it was a mistake or not.

We had 4 or so pm's back and fourth where I was utterly lost...it's why i turned to the public for help..