The Sopranos: A Deadly Game (GAME OVER!)

[elvis_knits]

I'm here! Party can start!

[elvis_knits]

When do I get to whack someone?

Vote:ZONEFACE

for being trigger happy

Vote: Millar13

for arguing against someone being triggerhappy in a Soprano's game...

So from this we can garner:

MonkeyMan576 is Tony Soprano *bows*.

ZONEACE is the goon of the family, obviously town.

Millar13 is obviously not a part of the family, thus, on the outside, and therefor, scum!

Vote: Millar13

Day 1s are never this easy. Thank you for helping out Millar13!

a clear end to the random phase, from the fact that you have percieved three very random votes for being

"Tells"

. Although, you really can't be accused of anything yet using the word

OBVIOUSLY

on the second page is a course for concern.

vote millar

obviously.

[elvis_knits]

you said,

the goon

of the family. this is not true.

so, you still voting me makes you an idiot and I'm liking everyone else's logic against you

vote al_ko

I said goon because of this post:

When do I get to whack someone?

We're a crime family, we send out goons to whack people. You want to whack someone. Vis a vis, you are a goon awaiting orders to whack somebody.

So you said goon in terms of the flavor, but not in terms of the the game of mafia (ie, a goon being scum)?

Don't you think that using the term goon is going to be a little confusing in this game, and it makes perfect sense for people to assume what they assumed you meant?

[elvis_knits]

I think the alko hate stems from a misunderstanding on his use of goon and family as it can be taken as either related to flavor or to the game of mafia in general. There's the mafia/mob and there's the mafia/game.

I still don't like millar. He's done more than one thing that bothers me.

1) Voted zoneface for being trigger happy. Maybe that was a joke vote, it was his first of the game, but seriously, this is sopranos mafia. Also, and more importantly, I don't see millar as that responsible. When he comes on and pretends to be the voice of reason, it doesn't make sense.

2) He says, "thank God for no OMGUS" because zoneface didn't vote him. Why was he so paranoid about getting omgused?

3) Strange attack on alko for using the word "obviously."

4) Strange attack on fuzzy, talking about fuzzy rereading his scum role pm, calling him scum but not voting him.

5) Says raj looks scummy, but he's not calling him scum. Doesn't vote raj

6) Jumps on alko bandwagon (not bad in itself, but considering all the other people he's recently called scum, it doesn't make much sense to me)

7) Foses inhim for voting alko, saying he's just jumping the bandwagon (which is pretty hypocritical considering millar just did the same thing.)

[elvis_knits]

Millar: Your thoughts on EK?

Empking: what are your thoughts on millar? or anyone?

[elvis_knits]

@elvis_knits: You always build cases on people this fast and this early?

Probably not, but I don't usually find so much that I dislike this early either. It all depends on the situation.

Is there something you don't like about my case on millar?

[elvis_knits]

zwet usually full claims. This is an improvement.

[elvis_knits]

I don't share hohum's opinion that kise reads like a ferret with ADHD. However, I don't like the OMGUS reaction from Kise. Hohum says kise isn't doing anything, and kise's reaction is: neither are you. 1) kise didn't defend himself by saying he is scum hunting. 2)kise accusing hohum of the same thing is not true.

I also don't like this (that hohum pointed out):

Just found this:

There are some mafia families who are trying to keep Tony Soprano in power for business reasons, and I'm assuming there are also usurper families. (this may or may not be a softclaim). Therefore, I think al is town.

Still, I don't see how Al is town, although I'm not saying that Al is scum.

Trying to have it both ways on Al.

Also, looking through his posts, his early presence on the empking wagon and then lecturing posts about how wagoning is bad. Seems insincere since he was on empking too.

unvote, vote kise

[elvis_knits]

However, I don't like the OMGUS reaction from Kise.

Someone makes a trivial case on me, and I automatically start digging in their ass. I went into Mastin-mode and was about to make a wall-of-text, but I kept making jokes out of hohum's posts and decided not to use it. I got it saved in notepad, and I'll probably pull that

bad boy

out if I feel warranted. Anywho!

So you admit it was OMGUS.

You're admitting you are attacking hohum precisely because you don't like his attack on you. You are not merely defending against his points or showing why he is wrong. You are making a counter attack. That is OMGUS.

Hohum says kise isn't doing anything, and kise's reaction is: neither are you.

I didn't use the word "neither," because I do not fall in the category that hohum wants to place me in. I flipped the script in a way to label him a hypocrite. He called my posts mere busy/activity) posts, but all he's been doing is asking people questions and not following up (nothing but gristle). So, in other words, he's the one who is making busy posts and

not going anywhere

with these questions.

I disagree. I think he's pressuring people he thinks might be scum in order to get a better read. But whatever, you might think that about hohum. But I sort of doubt it because you weren't complaining about hohum until he attacked you. Which makes the attack seem dishonest and OMGUS.

1) kise didn't defend himself by saying he is scum hunting.

Do you believe I was scumhunting?

Maybe sometimes. But you did post a lot of filler, which is akin to active lurking.

Do YOU believe you were scum hunting?

Trying to have it both ways on Al.

His mother took it both ways. I had the rear, Jr. took the mouth.

Lack of serious response means I'm right.

Also, looking through his posts, his early presence on the empking wagon and then lecturing posts about how wagoning is bad. Seems insincere since he was on empking too.

July Fools, anyone?
*smh*

See above.

[elvis_knits]

passive aggression will get you nowhere. well, besides the top of my list for the next policy lynch

And being a massive question-dodging tool will get you nowhere besides the top of my list for the next scum lynch.

that's not gonna go well for you when I flip town, and you are shown to have lead the cause against me.

Both of you seem like town to me and both of you seem to think the other is town (despite threatening to lynch each other), so if you would please stop trying to prove who has the bigger dick, that would be nice.

[elvis_knits]

elvis_knits, I know at first you focused on Millar, but now you are voting for Kise. Have you decided Millar isnt scummy anymore, or just not as scummy as Kise?

I still think millar is scummy. His recent contributions are not scum hunting despite some of his earlier too-serious lecturing.

But I'm going to pressure anyone I think is scummy, not just one person.

[elvis_knits]

Well I definitely don't think he thinks you're scum since he is suggesting a POLICY lynch on you.

[elvis_knits]

If you think he really wants to lynch you, yet thinks you're town, then you should assume he's scum.

If you think he's just being a confrontational pain, then he's probably town.

Neither of you should assume that just because you find the other annoying that means the other is scum.

[elvis_knits]

I'm not sure his allignment, but his combative attitude doesn't make me think he's scum, and I think you're getting caught up in his attitude and fighting just for the sake of fighting.

[elvis_knits]

I don't like zoneace talk of policy lynches, although I know people use them and it doesn't automatically make them scum. I tend to think it's lazy and favors scum, but I don't think anyone who agrees with policy lynches is necessarily scum. Mostly what I have seen from zoneace is him being confrontational and I know that's how he is, so I don't see anything odd about it.

What "wild assumptions" have I made? I'm trying to tell you that you're jumping off the deep end and getting too caught up in zoneace's bravado. I'm not decided what allignment zoneace is, but I think it's a distraction to get into a pissing contest with him. I would rather pressure peopl like kise or millar, or people I think are scummy independent of me being annoyed with them.

I still think millar is scummy. If you disagree, tell me why. And if you want me to respond to something connected to you voting me, then tell me what it is. It seemed like you disagreed with me about millar, and were voting me for it. I can't tell you anything if you don't tell me why you think millar is so town that you need to protect him.

I'm not trying to tell you how you feel about zoneace. If you think he needs pressure and you think he might be scum, go for it, but the posting you had going on with him was a pissing contest and not productive, and I was concerned that you both might be town that were getting carried away.

And how am I going for easy lynches? If I wanted to do that I would vote alko.

[elvis_knits]

I'm back, bitches. To be honest, I think Zone's dodginess was suspect as hell. Also, inHim has delivered nothing to this game. al is starting to leave no stone unturned (in other words, scumhunting his ass off). Looks good, so that wagon will not earn my vote. Instead...

Vote: inHim

Average scummers tend to shy away at the beginning of the game, so not to draw a cop investigation their way N1.

You're right about inhim not delivering anything this game. If you had stopped there I would be fine with it, but your last sentence there is bad inflammatory WIFOM.

[elvis_knits]

unvote; vote millar

Millar's comments on claiming contradict eachother and then he goes on to attack anyone who points it out. I also dislike how he is taking the tone of professor mafia to tell people what they are doing is "dangerous." I didn't realize he was serious or careful enough of a player to be able to take a teaching, chastising tone.

[elvis_knits]

It looks like he doesn't know what to fake claim since he's coming in here and asking if he's dead yet instead of defending himself or claiming, like a normal person would do.

[elvis_knits]

And what is the problem here?

[elvis_knits]

vote cjmiller

Was that just a joke vote on raj? Joke votes on D2 are scummy, in addition to the other reasons people have said -- 1) You're voting for the guy with a lower lynch threshhold with no explained reason; and 2) You're voting for a guy who we know didn't make a kill last night (not that it means he can't be scum, but I agree he's of less concern now, especially without other reason for voting him).

[elvis_knits]

I thought the listed earnings had to do with the jobs that were offered last night. And you have to forego your night action (if any) to do a job. Unless I am misunderstanding the special mechanics and earnings stuff, which is possible.

So like a person who did a job last night could technically be a goon who didn't do a kill. So it doesn't clear them completely but in the absence of other reasons for suspecting a person, it sort of speaks in their favor, IMO.

[elvis_knits]

Vote: rajrhcpfreak

You aren't making enough to please the Family. You must be whacked.

So you're voting for a player who chose to make money instead of kill somebody last night?

ooh good point.... but as much as i would love to clear myself, we can't eliminate the three of us that took jobs because only one person in a mafia group has to make a kill at night. but i would assume that the three of us were "blocked" from making kills for night 1. its some info and since there is 3 killers on the lose right now i would assume that targeting the 3 people that did jobs would be the least of the town's concern.

raj seems to say he did take a job last night

[elvis_knits]

elvis, at the risk of exposing myself, I didn't accept a job last night, but i made more money than raj did.

Actually, you're right, and I did too, but I guess I was thinking that the posted earners had to do with jobs, and not just the regular earnings that I think we all get.

But now that I think about it, I'm sure that the posted earnings are like a total amount, whether you did a job or not. Right?

Regardless, raj said he did a job last night.

[elvis_knits]

Raj suggest that because he made money last night, that he didn't kill someone. but if everyone who killed someone last night didn't make money THEY WOULD HAVE MADE LESS MONEY THAN RAJ and would have been announced as such.

Hmmm, so how did raj take a job last night if he made so little money?

[elvis_knits]

I find the whole special mechanics confusing.

But I guess we shouldn't assume anything about night actions vs. jobs based on earnings?

[elvis_knits]

Noticing something weird...

Alko

was the first one to say that raj took a job last night:

Vote: rajrhcpfreak

You aren't making enough to please the Family. You must be whacked.

So you're voting for a player who chose to make money instead of kill somebody last night?

And then raj confirmed it, but not before alko said it.

So, this is probably partly where the misunderstanding came from about earnings and jobs. I remember I just sort of assumed this was right because I didn't actually understand the earnings thing yet. (Yesterday I had several PM's with the mod trying to figure out how earning work... and am not even sure I understand all the special mechanics yet.)

The way I see it, there are two possibilities:

1)Alko thought listed earnings were only from jobs (which is what I assumed after reading his post and raj's confirming the job). Or some other misunderstanding which led him to think that raj took a job?

or

2)Alko

KNEW

raj did a job last night. If it's this -- how did alko know? This option naturally makes me suspicious of them. I guess there are roles besides scum that could communicate at night, but scum is a definite possibility.

ALKO -- please explain why you thought/knew raj did a job last night?

[elvis_knits]

Frankly? I don't believe that he took a job yesterday, with such low earnings -- I think he's backfilling.

Is it possible to earn money outside jobs?

Yes. I did not do a job and I earned money last night. zoneace has said he did also, and I think zwet did too. We all said we earned more than raj without doing a job.

[elvis_knits]

Is it possible raj did a job but had to kick up so much money because he's that low in the organization?

[elvis_knits]

personally i saw 3 people up there and i assumed we were the three people that were able to do the jobs. i didnt read or hear that everyone had jobs.

i also had an epiphany. i had to have done a job. if we are ranked and other people get your money, people higher than you, then i have to be the low man on the totem pole. so because most of my money is given to others then that confirms that i did the did a job. if i didnt do a job i would have 0 money.


FOS inhim

you vote for me because of somthing alko said? i can only assume that he was thinking like me because all i knew was that i had taken a job.

now there is somthing there, did you take a job alko?
i think alko just confessed to not taking a job.

raj... what are you saying... that you weren't sure whether you had done a job or not? How did you not know?

And why is not taking a job scummy?

[elvis_knits]

should we mass claim on who did a job last night?

I say no.

[elvis_knits]

We need everyone to comment on these issues:

1)Alko said raj took a job before raj admitted it.

2)Raj says he took a job, yet he is also the lowest earner.
(Is it possible he had to kick up so much money because of his place in the org?)

3)Raj suggests we claim if we did jobs last night.

[elvis_knits]

It's true about kicking up money, you can see it in the rules:

Based on a player's position within the organization, they will have to kick up a portion of their profits to their superiors.

But also, players earn a base amount:

Profit - In addition to profit from jobs, players also earn a base amount of money each night based on their position within the organization. After each night is resolved, players will be notified how much total profit they have made so far. The top two earners as well as the bottom earner will be listed publicly. The rest of the rankings will be unknown.

So even if raj is like the lowest guy possible, could he have gotten his base salary and done a job, and still only made 3,000, even if we figure that he had to kick up money and his base might be low?

[elvis_knits]

if i didnt do a job i would have 0 money.

On the one hand, raj's claim that he gets no income is provable -- just don't take a job tomorrow and you'll show up as having 0 income (and worst earner).

Profit - In addition to profit from jobs, players also earn a base amount of money each night based on their position within the organization.

Does this sound like a player could have a base amount of $0?

[elvis_knits]

I see that as possible, that he was just confused where his earnings came from and didn't know he had a base salary since he had done a job and figured his money came from a job. Although his whole explanation about not know he had a job is a bit weird. It's hard to tell definitively since the special mechanics are confusing, so I can understand people getting confused (I know I have been at different point, and maybe still am).

This is the weirdness for me:

personally i saw 3 people up there and i assumed we were the three people that were able to do the jobs. i didnt read or hear that everyone had jobs.

i also had an epiphany. i had to have done a job. if we are ranked and other people get your money, people higher than you, then i have to be the low man on the totem pole. so because most of my money is given to others then that confirms that i did the did a job. if i didnt do a job i would have 0 money.

1)Everyone didn't have jobs, so he's mistaken there.
2)Sounds like his low amount of money told him that a)he did a job, b)he's low on the totem pole, and c)if he didn't do a job he would have $0.

My problem with that is that it seems like he wasn't sure he did a job until he saw the money posted, which doesn't make sense, because I think you should know if you signed up for a job or not.

Also the $0 money thing, but I guess that's just him making assumptions not knowing that we earn a base amount.

ANYWAY, I also think we really need to hear from alko.

[elvis_knits]

Profit - In addition to profit from jobs,

players also earn a base amount of money each night based on their position within the organization.

After each night is resolved, players will be notified how much total profit they have made so far. The top two earners as well as the bottom earner will be listed publicly. The rest of the rankings will be unknown.


bolding mine.

this iws what is being referenced but I don't know. From the PM I received I feel like I'm pretty high in the organization, and I didn't get anything except for what i got from my action.

Zone, why couldnt a players base salary be zero? I dont necessarily think its likely, but I see no reason why someone's base salary couldnt be zero. Also, the rule you quoted says a player will be informed of total profit, not how much from which sources.

Point taken, i just looked at my pm again and it doesn't say whether my 14k all came from my action. and I realize a bae salary could be 0.

But if a base salary is $0... then it's really not a salary. It's nothing. A salary means money, and if you get no money, I don't know how it can be a salary.

[elvis_knits]

Why does everybody insist on saying that they know exactly how much money came from each source of income? We only know total income, correct?

I only know my

total

.

Looking at special mechanics there seems to be a few ways to make money -- base salary, kick ups, second earner gives 5% to somebody. I do not think we are notified what came from where -- I know I was not.

[elvis_knits]

Why are we talking about mechanics anyways?

Vote Alko

for starting up this whole discussion

^SSK is a GG.

Also, very much agreed with LL re: mneme.

GGs

SSK
zwet

BGs

mneme
alko/raj - would like this sorted out

vote: mneme

This whole post worries me.

As GG's he picks two players with anti-town play styles. I do not necessarily feel that they are scum this game (I feel neutral on them), but I would never put them down as my top two townies. For one thing, I don't know what they have done that is so pro-town, but also, it makes me worried that inhim is elevating these two players to town leaders.

Then the mneme thing is weird because it's just a straight agreement with lockelamora, with nothing else. No explanation or individual thought. and I think he's done that before this game (unless I am mixing up my memories of other game... we're in a few together right now).

Also, mneme comes out of nowhere as a suspect for me, so I don't really agree with it.

[elvis_knits]

Actually... revising thoughts on zwet. I don't like the OMGUS on zone.

Actively lurking. YOU MUST BE KIDDING ME!!!!!!!!! :evil

Unvote; Vote: ZONEACE

[elvis_knits]

What are the other reasons?

[elvis_knits]

Also zwet voting cjmiller at this point is just him hoping we'll all forget that he omgused zone and claimed to have other reasoning and then didn't provide it.

[elvis_knits]

First of all, I CANNOT BELIEVE A TRACKER WOULD FOREGO THEIR NIGHT ACTION TO DO A JOB AND EARN MONEY. As far as I can tell, earning money doesn't do that much us. I don't believe power roles would forego their night choices. And random.org is the stupidest thing ever in this situation.

i suggest this because CJ claims to have an ability, that while not 100% confirmable, can be collaborated, in theory, by the person he follows after his reveal tomorrow.

I guess we could do this, but what if he tracks someone who does nothing?

CJ, how does your ability work if you track someone who does a job? Are you told they went and did job 1 or 2 or whatever, or are you only told about persons who have a power role, who they visit?

Basically, I'm wondering how tracker would work in this game.

[elvis_knits]

So you set up random.org to pick a job for you 3/4 of the time, with only 1/4 chance of using your power?

Why did you even contemplate doing a job? What did you hope to accomplish, and why would that be better than using your tracking ability?

[elvis_knits]

And why did you choose not to have any control over it? Didn't you think it would be more helpful for you to use your ability?

[elvis_knits]

I was feeling bad for losing interest in this game and then I came back and started reading and there was like a whole page of zwet/kise/k7/mafiassk acting like beavis and butthead talking about erections inside jokes. It is sort of funny though when zoneace has to rein people in...

I still think CJ is lying about his night actions, but I guess giving him a chance to prove himself is okay, especially when we have other fine candidates.

unvote cj; vote zwetschenwasser

Also, I think someone asked me to look at mneme a long time ago. I do mean to do that when I get a chance.

[elvis_knits]

Zwet -

Also zwet voting cjmiller at this point is just him hoping we'll all forget that he omgused zone and claimed to have other reasoning and then didn't provide it.

[elvis_knits]

EK for buddying up to hohum in an attempt to divert hohum's suspicion of him (also neglecting to address my counter-points when he made a case on me)

This is completely untrue, Kise. Where did I buddy to hohum? I remember telling hohum and zone to stop flaming, but that's about it. Also, I did not neglect to address your points yesterday. I had several posts responding to you, some of them quite long.

[elvis_knits]

Also, we really need to lynch from this group: zwet, cj, ssk, kise, k7, emp.

This is WAY too many players that are unhelpful at best, scummy at worst (and a fair amount of them are already leaning scum).

My preference would be zwet, kise, or cj. CJ last in case he can prove himself, although I do not believe a tracker would take a job instead of his night action.

Also I am voting zwet, although the vote count does not reflect this.

unvote; vote zwet

for good measure.

[elvis_knits]

Okay people, Zwet needs to die. Kise may need to die also... his nightkill suspicions are fail. But zwet omgused zone and then when asked about it said he had other reasons, then couldn't provide other reasons and unvoted zone, voted cj and hoped we would just forget about his OMGUS and lying.

On top of all that, he softclaimed a PR on D1 and has not fullclaimed at all today, even though he has been the highest vote getter almost the whole time. IF YOU ARE A POWER ROLE, YOU OWE IT TO THE TOWN TO CLAIM. Everyone knows that. And considering I have seen zwet claim in other games for absolutely no reason, it is completely suspicious that he won't full claim now.

Zwet is scum. Otherwise he would have claimed.

I think the lynch will go through with half the lynch number, so we don't have to worry about no lynch.

[elvis_knits]

YOU HAVE THE MOST VOTES, IT IS HALF THE NUMBER NEEDED FOR A NORMAL LYNCH.

THAT MEANS YOU WILL BE LYNCHED AT DEADLINE.

CLAIM NOW OR DIE.

[elvis_knits]

That does not look like a full claim.

[elvis_knits]

This smells like scum scramble.

I'm not willing to let you off the hook without full claiming. I can't imagine why you wouldn't want to claim. I have seen you claim DURING CONFIRMATIONS, so I don't know why you would be so against claiming.

If we don't lynch you, we won't know if you're lying or not. If we lynch you and you don't die, you have atleast proved that part of your role. If we lynch you and you do die, you're scum and hoooray. That's win-win.

I'm willing to take the chance of no-lynch... the alternative of letting zwet go without proving himself or claiming os just so... against my grain.

[elvis_knits]

blowing your immujnity

Is that how a lynch immunity would work? Like a 1-shot?