Battle Mafia: Game Over

[SpyreX]

There is only one true criminal here.

The one who stole my illustrious spot by having a whole new number put in for them.

Charter, you have been judged.

You have been found wanting.

24 shall exist no more.

Vote: Charter

[SpyreX]

Who are you justifying your thieving ways to Charter?

Is it me?

Is it... you?

Apologize to thine self. Wash away your crimes.

Rise, like the phoneix, new.

But, to rise, you must die first.

Alas, it is known.

[SpyreX]

If I was quoting something it was subconscious. What is that from Tubby?

The miller claim is slightly-town, overall. It will be dealt with before lylo and there is no reason to push for a lynch based on that alone. Now, if he turns into scumbolina well.

@BC: Is that a real vote?

[SpyreX]

Yo BC, volkan vote: Serious or Not?

You be the judge!

[SpyreX]

@Nik:

Do you see anything that would be not-RVS worthy so far in this game?

Would you jump votes not in the RVS for reactions?

[SpyreX]

Oi. First game back and already my brain wants to curl up in a corner and cry.

I think I missed the reasoning for the wagons on BloodCovenent and Haylen. Anyone care to enlighten me?

Why just those two and not Volkan? Are you saying there's a reason for his?

[SpyreX]

... Grrrr.

You win this round with your "sense" and "correcting yourself without coming off scummy as all getout".

[SpyreX]

I'd still really like BC to answer the question I asked him.

[SpyreX]

Well looks like I missed...something.

Not surprisingly I still want BC to explain his vote. The whole scumgate doesn't rankle my feathers in and of itself. The fact it was said, then nothing really since when he was moving at a clip does.

[SpyreX]

I've missed you Volkan.

Although I will admit it always raises an eye when A attacks B and C, who has been quiet, then attacks A for attacking B.

Unless, of course, the case is a load of bull.

[SpyreX]

^ Yes. Which means cries of Chainsaw mean nothing without the analysis that is rarely seen.

FoS:Spyrex

To forgiving. Mild coaching. Trying to give a player an excuse.

This is a question?

I'm not trying to give him an excuse. I want him to answer it.

Yea its a little forgiving because I'm a nice and friendly fellow for the first few ot pages. Then the horns come out.

So...?

[SpyreX]

If you are every post on a page you are doing it wrong.

@BC:

So, that's a real vote? Give a clear reason why.

Actually, let me help:

Unvote, Vote BC

I'm seein molehills and not mountains against Tubby. However, I'm seeing adrunk, drunk mole come out of those holes.

[SpyreX]

A true flurry of posts.

Badger's aggressive responses this early in the game read more actual 'affronted town' then 'panicking scum'.

BC even with all of those posts hasn't managed to come down and SAY anything.

Surprisingly, I have neutral-leaning town feelings on the 3k+ group universally. Normally I'd expect one of the actives to leap out at me but not yet.

Charter - any reason for your vote?

[SpyreX]

@Vi:

What reads fake about my 255? Although this latest tryst of GIEFF-Vi-Tubby is pretty killer.

Although, that really pales to I think my first honest to god scumslip:

Unvote, Vote Tubby

[SpyreX]

Soo....

Tubby wasn't scum.
Volkan is (OR BETTER BE) a non-town kill.
Haylen was drugged, but not like IH's noticable one.
Then Tubby retaliatory killed Gieff, who is scum.

Awesome.

@Vi:

The only thing you said in 255 that was worth posting was your read on ElectricBadger. Everything else was just awkwardly standing aboot and being about as irrelevant as you can get without saying literally nothing.

Your immediate attempt to chain lynches here is just about as bad.

Nope, I haven't said much in this. However, the active players didn't stand out as pushing a scum agenda.

Which I was apparently wrong about.

What chain lynches are you talking about? The exchange between you and gieff regarding tubby was interesting. And gieff was scum. Fancy that.

My vote was on BC until Tubby claimed scum and was lying about it.

Now there's some BC votes floating around that I want to look at before I go back to it.

Which I probably will.

Although charter intrigues me.

[SpyreX]

Vote: Randomlunatic

The hell?

[SpyreX]

...

I am confused.

Gieff flipping scum and tubby flipping neighbor makes me all but convinced YOU are town Vi.

I'm not sure what you read into what I said?

[SpyreX]

I wasn't convinced of you being town until AFTER they both flipped.

The way that argument was going did not seem like a town-town affair. And it wasn't.

Nor does it make sense for scum-scum.

So, you are pretty solid town.

[SpyreX]

Unvote, Vote: Mariyta.

That seems pretty straight forward.

[SpyreX]

Pure madness. Charter has evidence of Maryita performing the poisoning. However, this makes him a lyncher - maybe.

[SpyreX]

Needless to say I see very little loss and huge gain from testing this claim.

A lyncher I really am not buying.

[SpyreX]

Well, yes its a claim.

However, its not even like a cop-claim where he could pretend to have a sanity issue. He either saw you do it or something REALLY funny (yea, REALLY) is going on.

He's either telling the truth or is a lyncher (or, I suppose a bus, but that seems really odd at this juncture). I find the lyncher idea to be very minimal.

You've also already claimed and for some odd reason 'roleblocker' sure doesn't get the town-tears a' gushin.

So.

[SpyreX]

Ok, this game.

We've either got timed kills OR something absolutely nuts is going on.

EB hating all over charter and flips Doctor?

CKD, hammer this piggy home.

[SpyreX]

* Mafia Doctor.

[SpyreX]

Pretty sure Mairyta is going to flip scum.

Can't decide if EB was protecting or we hit two separate scumgroups.

Would love to see the filibustering stop so we can't get the lynch done.

Nothing else is going to be dealt with until the giant monster squid is no longer a hat detracting from the smaller needles.

[SpyreX]

No, seriously, why is this still not done?

"This lynch is good. TOO GOOD."

[SpyreX]

Hahah are you kidding me?

Vote: DTMaster

Silver Rule in effect.

[SpyreX]

The Silver Rule is simple: If they asked to be lynched, you lynch them.

I'll give you that coming out and condemning yourself is inspired. I'm not buying it though.

[SpyreX]

I'm absolutely confused by a.) charters declaration against me and b.) his flip considering how yesterday went down and the fact he said I wasn't scum but is a paranoid cop - which implies that either he was a.) making it all up or b.) doubted his own result but had some kinda "mysterious reasons" for me being bad to vig but ok to lynch?

Needless to say as far as I know the world wouldn't collapse if I was vigged. And I'm not scum. So...

Teach me to be gone for a day I guess?

[SpyreX]

Going out to the movies with the wife.

You will get an actual synopsis tomorrow / tonight depending.

Further, Charter's flip and what has happened do NOT make sense. I am not scum. Even more importantly I am not some kinda voodoo role that bad things happen if I'm dayvig'd.

His statements do NOT mesh with a cop flip and this needs to be figured out.

So don't do anything awesome like, ya know, hang me in the interm.

[SpyreX]

You know whats awesome?

Coming back after saying don't hang me in the interm and being at L-1 based on a paranoid cop's claim that

does not make sense

.

I am a Psychic Townie.

Each night I send in a player and a role (role AND alignment). If I am right I get "powers" for the next night.

Now, I

assumed

that this meant something only if I got it "totally" right but that isn't true.

N0 - I picked Volkan, Vanilla Townie. I got the ability yesterday to hide last night.

This means either charter didn't target me last night or I got a fake power.

N1 - I himmed and hawed between going for an easy mark (Kai / Miller Townie), justifying a read (Vi / Vanilla Townie) or being helpful ( DTM / Mafia Goon). I opted with the latterest. I, again, got a power - this time I can watch someone and see if they are targeted.

Now, since that seems more useful I am assuming that this time I got it all right. However, if Goon = Vanilla then I hit half of it hence my power.

I have no idea if, at this point, this means I'm useful OR if it means that I'm getting "bad" gifts.

However, none of this lends to "mysterious powers" or anything that happens if I were to be shot.

However, I am now going to dissect what the hell is going on with this wagon and give you some actual for reallies reads. Maybe, just maybe, you guys can manage to NOT LYNCH me until that happens?

[SpyreX]

So, lets look at this wagon - thar' be scums up ins.

So, lets break this apart:

GUYS! NEW PLAN! LYNCH SPYREX NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!

UNVOTE, VOTE SPYREX

DO NOT QUESTION THIS. WE ARE SPEEDLYNCHING SPYREX! GOGOGOGOG

IF ANYONE VOTES FOR DTMASTER FROM NOW ON, YOU ARE SCUMMIER THAN HE IS.

Good enough for me.

Unvote, Vote SpyreX

(Tajo, my suspects were DTM and Nikanor... any more than that, I'll have to reread.)

Now, this is soso, but the following actually asking wtf is going on in 602 gets some town:

Wait, charter, SpyreX is CONFIRMED scum, right? Absolutely, positively?

Further, after Charter's flip. Crazy's 622 is pretty awesome.

Ugh, now I wish charter had given us more information while he was alive.

Given that he was paranoid, it seems that Mariyta was telling the truth and it ended up being a fluke that she was scum.

I'm pretty sure charter's death nulls any case on SpyreX, but DTM and Nikanor are still scummy.

Unvote
Vote DTMaster

Very well,
unvote:
Vote: SpyreX
Last time this worked very well.

I presume there is going to be some kill/poison/what not that spyre is going to do? If we don't lynch him fast enough?

604, blah. 605. Ok. Alone, leaning town. With the earlier play, still leaning scum. However, not our winner.

But DTMaster is also very likely scum.

Why dont we let Spyrex to our lovely vig?

Also, why did you target Spyrex?

Not a voter. However, with the reactions (such as this) I'm putting tajo in my "super awesome town" category along with Vi. I wish there were more there.

vote: SpyreX

From what I can gather, charter is an information role of some sort?

/hasn't had a chance to read yet, but has been semi-following along.

This is from the Miller. Wait, the miller that dies if investigated yet somehow that wasn't brought up in the initial claim. Swoosh.

I'm calling shenanigans here. Chances are high on neutral, decent on scum.

I have a hunch that charter wasn't a normal "paranoid cop". If he was, then what was all that stuff about how Marytia poisoned someone? He wouldn't have gotten information that specific from a normal cop investigation. Plus, his turn on SpyreX was really, really sudden;

if it was based on an investigation, it would have had to be a day investigation.

Plus, I don't really think charter-cop would investigate SpyreX there, he had several bigger suspectects.

This being a bastard mod game and all, I think charter was very likely some other kind of information role that just happened to have the role name "paranoid cop".

Unvote Vote:SpyreX

Although I still wouldn't mind a DT lynch today either.

This one really bothers me:

1.) Says Charter is not a normal "paranoid cop" - which I suppose could be true but considering distorter != poisioner the argument could be made there was a n0 investigation and he tried to limit his powers. But, fine.
2.) Says it would have had to be a day investigation.
3.) Says, further, I am not a cop investigation target which means something else...

but nothing else has happened today.

The logic he used to prove this does not add up. I really, really don't like that.

I double dont like it when it appeared votes were going to start to shift back to DTM.

This is furthered by:

If charter had not been daykilled, I'm pretty sure Spyrex lynch would have been inevitable anyway.

Think about this. You're scum. You see one person who's not in your scum group and who you think is pro-town claim a guilty on someone else who's not in your scum group and you think is pro-town. What do you do?

Personally, I'd let the town follow the claimed info role into a mislynch, then use that mislynch to go after the claimed info role the next day.

Neah. Only way I think the charter kill makes sense is either if A: it was scum who knew Charter was right and a pro-town info role and just wanted him dead dead dead right away before he could investigate again, or B: if it was made by a SK or someone in a different scumgroup who was just assuming Charter was right and a pro-town info role and therefore wanted him dead dead dead.

Now, it isn't verifyable but I sure wasn't around today. Lets take that aside.

If I'm scum, short of a miracle (like him being paranoid) -

killing charter would have been a deathwish

.

Now, considering I'm not scum - scum killing charter is,

normally

, a wet dream. If he had flipped any kind of real investigative role I would then be a power lynch. Further, they get to kill the cop during the day AND have a patsy for it.

Yet, that isn't how it went down.

Honestly if this goes wrong just quick lynch me tomorrow. I'm trusting charter here since he's displayed more information then a normal cop would ever get. Or you can do me now and do Spyrex tomorrow. Either way works.

Unvote
Vote: SpyreX BTW. L-3

... Yea.

Then crazy comes back on. Still think town, but sad.

Then, this awesome one:

Explain, please.

About charter's death, I cannot think of anyone else who had anything at all to gain from it than SpyreX. Non-SpyreX scum? Possible, but it would make more sense for them to wait for SpyreX's lynch before killing charter. Pro-town killing roles? Again, possible, but severely unlikely, considering we lynched scum yesterday with his investigation. The only conclusion I can come up with is that SpyreX is scum. Vote: SpyreX.
L-1 ahoy.

You know, except for the fact I get nothing to gain from it and the actual scum (who were decimated day 1) get to kill a PR to swing a mislynch.

This happens when I'm not around and said I wouldn't be to put a wagon at L-1 just begging for a power hammer.

Yes. This one be mad scum, yo.

So, to summarize (I know that one is hard to read I'm tired but GOOD LORD):

Super Town:
Vi
Tajo

Town:
Crazy

Maybe scum:
Yos
BC

Betting on NOT TOWN:
Kai

Scum:
Nikanor
DTM

So, to be clear.

I think Paranoid Cop meant just that. Charter got a hit day 1 and wanted to downplay his PR to not get humped. Then hit got me and the actual scum (who hadn't used their kill yet versus day 1) opted to kill him to frame the shit out of me for it.

Killing him would have in all scenarios but this one

guaranteed

my death. That makes no sense.

[SpyreX]

I dont know if I get it but are you claiming a guilty result on DTMaster?

Also, I dont understand. You get the power the same night or you get the power the next night?

Sorry, tired.

I put it in at night, get the power at daybreakish (he's not the most precise) to, apparently, use the next night.

I put in Vanilla Town on Volkan and got the ability to hide.
I put in Mafia Goon on DTM on got the ability to watch.

As Volkan wasn't Vanilla Town either I'm getting a weaker power OR I'm getting fake ass powers. I'm assuming because I got half of it right I got something?

So, with DTM either: 1.) I got it all right and watching is somehow better than hiding? or 2.) I got half of it right and thats why I got something or 3.) There is no rhyme or reason that I understand on how this works.

I'll have more in the morningish

[SpyreX]

Huzzah more catchup.

But what does this mean:

What it says. I hid behind Vi, thus, I should have been untargettable.

Which means A.) Charter didn't target me at night or B.) I'm getting given fake powers because I'm not "right" with my picks.

I have no idea.

so Spy are you saying you used your ability AND hid last night? you targetted two people last night? who did you hide behind?

Yes I used my ability and got to use my power.

I'm -assuming- I targeted DTM and Vi - I sent in Hide: Vi and DTM: Mafia Goon. Soo...

I think that was a deliberate act. Which implies that charter knew that his role title was "Paranoid Cop"... which implies that unless BM decided to deliberately give someone an Idiot Townie role (investigate someone as long as you will stay convinced that that person is scum OMG *mod note: lol, paranoid investigation*), Paranoid reflects his post restriction and not his sanity.

Sans the fact I'm not scum it still doesn't add up. If charter thought he was a cop day 1 with a guilty in this bizarro setup playing it like some kind of poison-tracker makes sense because it makes his role appear to be less than it is.

The same follows through with the "follow my lead until I lynch not-scum".

I think I've mentioned Crazy 622 before; it looks terrible.
Could you explain why that post makes tajo Town?
I'm not sure where Yos2's first argument falls apart - somewhere around your 3). Could you explain that again?
I disagree that killing charter would have been a death wish for scum and/or you. They couldn't do it any other time once he became a demonstrated information role and therefore warranted protection. Killing charter was effectively scum's only recourse.
I have no idea how Crazy wound up on your Town list, but I'd like to know.
How does DTMaster's jump on the SpyreX wagon ring scum? He's asking so nicely to be quicklynched if he's wrong~

1.) Why? After seeing a paranoid flip it makes more sense to me to assume that it was a lucky shot and the scum was telling the truth than paranoid != paranoid.

2.) Tajo, rightfully, called for a vig shot which makes more sense in all scenarios aside from us being scum-partners (which isn't true) or me being a bomb (which also isn't true). Further, without fishing about the role he asked about the reasons because based on charters own list targetting me made little sense.

3.) Yos starts out with this paranoid != paranoid AND cop != cop (implying that his role was something else entirely). Then, from his assumption (and my action) it is said that charter "did" me during the day. However, since nothing has happened AND based on his logic charter isn't actually a cop what could he have seen?

4.) If I was scum and charter nailed me I would have to assume he is a true investigative role. Thus, killing him would guarantee that I got lynched (unless you are arguing that if he flipped "Cop" instead of "Paranoid Cop" I wouldn't have been strung up before I would have been able to reply.
Instead, like I am saying. If I am town and the scum watch someone who just nailed the shit out of a buddy the day before scream I am scum what are you going to do? Kill him, because, like above you are going to assume he is going to flip "Cop" and I am an instant-kill at that point.

5.) See 1. I can get into it in more detail but I'm gettin serious town-vibes off him.

6.) The guy who was all but busted day 1, starts out day 2 with a self-vote

and a case on himself

then goes "well, if they lynch him they're not lynching me today" and votes? Yea. Scum. Survival.

Next post is more. This one is big enough.

[SpyreX]

I don't like this list of yours. Why? Because it agree's with the general consensus with the town. Most of the town thought that Nik and DTM were scum, based on their day 1 play. And where you say that your betting Kai is NOT TOWN, is retarded, especially if he claimed miller, because he's obviously not going to show up as town. Even if scum were to claim miller, they would flip scum. Very rarely (i'm being presumptuous) do claimed millers flip town.

-Crazy unvoted you, and resumed a case on DTM, How does that make him scummy? He also said that charters case on you is null, considering charters alignment. If you flip scum, i would lynch Crazy next.

-Kai claimed miller correct? So obviously, why would you say that you are betting on him not being town, when if in fact he is a miller, he shouldn't flip town. Unless BM did some bastard modding, like when Mastin thought he was going to be a death miller, when he wasnt. Also, where is mastin Sad would have been fun to play with him again, i guess =/

where are you certain that Nik is scum? Same goes for DTM. You're just saying that stuff because charter I believe stated that, and others as well.

All in all, I'm keeping my vote on Spyre for the moment. And I didn't really like his claim. Just doesn't sit well with me. I mean, what the hell does Hide mean? Is it like roleblocking anyone that targets you?

Spyre, what would happen if you were incorrect?

Also, noted that the people you investigated were already dead before you claimed. <-- doesn't sit well with me.

Now this pile of awesome. Note: I'll say it now. If DTM is scum there's quite the high chance that BC is scum with him.

But, into the fray.

1.) Show me this "general consensus". I was fairly sure about Vi day 1 AND hid there so thats easy. Tajo actually was weighing the case out instead of power-bandwagoning.

2.) Millers, if actually millers, are still going to be Town Millers. I was saying (and shock and awe I was right) that he was lying about being a miller. Further, and we know I loves me some meta fights, show me this "rarely do claimed millers flip town." Because I'm pretty sure that is objectively false.

3.) I said Crazy was scummy? I'm pretty sure I said he was town.

4.) We have a setup where daykills (which adjust the lynch number) have been present. I say "hold up I'll explain." Nik puts me at L-1 with a shady vote which NOT ONLY invites a power-hammer that is a great scum-push for the next day but could, in fact, be setup for a kill to shift the lynch to lynched.

5.) Wiki it. That one is fairly normal.

6.) I have no idea. I assumed, wrongly, that I was "right" and got my powers. That wasn't the case with volkan soo.. I'm betting that if I am totally "wrong" I either get nothing or somehow get screwed.

7.) Yea DTM is totally dead now isn't he? Preview edit - I see you corrected this but seriously.

Decent, but wrong, justification for trying to lynch me is ok.
Weak justification is bad.
WRONG justification is scummy.

Calling it now. Scum with DTM.

Am I the only one here that thinks charter was indeed a paranoid cop and not some crap about postrestricted cop or cop with another approach? How do you explain his result on Spyrex? Did he catch him poisoning someone? How do you explain Maryita flipping distorter (possible roleblocker) and not poisoner, and she defending against she wasnt the one poisoning IH but not defending she wasnt scum?

Hi! <3. I think that is the Razor in this scenario and the various forms of words don't actually mean what they say confuses me.

SpyreX, did you breadcrumb your role at all?

No. The only thing I can look back is the fact I instantly believed Volkan and was surprised at the Doc flip (as up until that happened I thought he was VT).

There, caught up mostly.

[SpyreX]

There's a lot of assumation with whats going on.

I learned a got an ability when I'm not "right" because:

N0 - Volkan / Vanilla Townie
D1.1 - Get "hide" ability
D1.2 - Volkan flips Doctor.

So, yea. I got something and I wasn't right. As I got something when I wasn't "right" I have to assume being totally right would be something better? Or I've added in a step that doesn't exist and I wont know exists until I am right.

Sorry if I wasn't clear. Everything, so far, is 1-shot. I am led to believe that everything, period, will be 1-shot but I also thought that I'd only get something if I was right so..

[SpyreX]

I was -hoping- to get a hit on scum more than gain sweet powers (or both in the perfect world). If DTM had said he was a town PR I would have known, for sure, he was lying. Which is awesome.

I can watch tonight.

Out for a while today.

[SpyreX]

how would you know if you got a hit or not?

From getting a power (and I was hoping that the power itself would be a gauge).

It helps a little even with a partial though. DTM is either: Vanilla, Mafia or a Mafia Goon and watching > hiding. He is NOT a Town PR.

I don't see where it's not adding up. Say it a little more slowly?

Charter's play day 1 makes the most sense as a cop who hits scum but wants to keep a lower profile. By masking it as "poison viewer" or whatever he generates a much lower high-target response from scum.

Why not all three of the above?

Why would you?

I'm not seeing anything thats happened that would lend one to think that Paranoid Cop with the normal reasoning wouldn't fit.

(Note: I misread his 618 earlier (I thought he was saying I wasn't scum but he was saying DTM is scum) so my 630/645 are retarded - Paranoid Cop makes perfect sense).

@4. Let me explain it like this. Since charter was likely under... well, maybe not Doc protection, but probably some kind of alteration overnight, there was no choice but to kill charter during the Day.
Why charter was given enough time to get another result is anyone's guess; however, one can observe that he was breathing rather well until his turnabout onto you.

The chances are high (or should be) that he had some kind of protection last night. However, if I was scum, and let me know if you do not think this is true - killing him guarantees my lynch under normal "if I am scum" circumstances.

Please.

I'll go into it in more detail tomorrow, promise. The taster is looking at going along with information that is given from, at that point, someone you have no reason to doubt WHILE still questioning the wagon and its speed AND switching when evidence makes it makes sense to.

You know who I really want to see ITT? Benmage.

Truth. Actually, there's quite a few floating through this that need to speak up.

I tend to trust Charter here. He was clearly some kind of information role, plus SpyreX hasn't really done anything pro-town all game, plus I don't think scum would have daykilled chareter if he was wrong.

I'm still not getting how the scum wouldn't have motivation to kill someone they thought was a legitimate role (like cop) that had an illegitimate target. Two birds with one stone.

It is funny that you bring up my not being "pro-town" without quantifying it when in my reread after the Kai flip I am getting the sinking suspicion he had a N0 recruit. And his name be Yos.

However, with no recruiter that can wait until DTScum becomes one with the Matrix.

[SpyreX]

If you're not scum, and the scum know you're not in their group, why would they kill Charter before he got you lynched? Why not wait until after, and get a free mislynch, and then lynch him the next day? There was absolutely no doubt before Charter's death that you were about to be speedlynched. And he was basically saying "lynch me if I'm wrong" early in the day, so if he was wrong he's have problems tomorrow. 2 free mislynches, especally if the scum group gets a daykill and a nightkill every day (and it's pretty damn obvious that whoever killed charter is scum), would be huge. That would be two birds with no stone, and would let the scum kill someone else besides.

Neah, I don't buy that. Either you're scum, or the killer was a SK or someone who didn't know your alignment.

Because charter would have to be killed the next day on the chance he hit another one of them? Even if they managed to get the "you were wrong, thus lynch" through that wouldn't change the fact the assumption is he would flip cop and had a chance to target them?

As for the conjecture on who that could be the easiest piece would be charters list which points at Nik and RL (cicero & EB being dead). They'd have serious reason to believe even if for whatever reason he was wrong about me that he'd investigate them and if that happened before they killed the next day and his flip was what they expected then its a scum loss...versus doing it today.

It COULD be an SK. They'd have just as much benefit from this situation as scum. No matter how you cut it whomever put that kill in assumed it would be a Cop flip and that would mean I would be dead to rights.

There might be one cult recruit, but if there is he's basically a survivor and wouldn't actually care who gets lynched right now. You accusing me of "being a cult recruit" to try to discredit my suspicion of you is really scummy.

No, your suspicion of me was the nebulous "he's not pro-town" which is doubly funny considering the buddy-buddy you were with the recruiter.

Not to mention that I called out the logic in 631 before any of this happened. If you are saying I'm trying to discredit your suspicions I am there. This is icing, pure sweet icing.

You are right that the recruit is lower priority than the killstravaganza. Thus, DTM gets lynched. That does not free you from needing to go though.

And, finding links that show you to be a more-than-average chance to be not town has everything to do with, well, everything.

That said, bedtime is fast approaching. I'll be around more tomorrow.

[SpyreX]

Huh?

First of all, why would the recruiter recruit someone he was "buddy buddy" with? The smart thing for a recruiter to do would be to recruit someone who wanted to lynch the recruiter, in order to eliminate them as a threat and get them on your side.

Especally considering the situation, this just sounds like a way for you to try to discredit me because I'm attacking you.

... He recruited you, or so it appears, before you were buddy buddy. And it was related to his miller claim, so...

I dont know what to think about DTM and Spy's claim. Looking at his claim, I find myself thinking, "what would I do" I dont udnerstand why he targetted DTM last night...I dont understand how he knew that he would get a better power if he nailed scum correctly, versus nailing anyone correctly. The claim has left himself a ton of room to manuver given a bunch of results. If this was any other mod or the situation was any different, Spy, you would have my vote right now.

No.

I am not saying I get "better" powers if I target scum. Ultimately, "better" powers is just conjecture based on the fact I got a power already when I was "wrong" about my guess.

I gussed for scum because in that scenario if I am right a.) we have found a scum AND b.) I get a power. That is a better use of this voodoo imo.

Okay, the things I dislike most about SpyreX's claim are that he claims to have used his power on vollkan N0 and predicted that he was a Town Vanilla. He got a power, but didn't know if it was fake or not. He hypothesizes that if he is half right, that half being the 'town' part, that he would get a power. Then, he claims to have investigated DTM N1 as Mafia Goon. Now, he says that he thinks he can be half right and still get a power. That means that either a) DTM is mafia, not goon, and SpyreX's claim is unrefuted, or b) DTM is vanilla, not mafia, and SpyreX's claim is unrefuted. It is a very safe claim for him to make. I also don't like how he chose 'mafia goon' as an investigation. It is my understanding that there are very rarely mafia goons in a setup such as this. So why would SpyreX choose to guess Mafia Goon on DTM? It makes no sense. Care to explain this to me, SpyreX?

I put in Volkan as Vanilla Town. I got a power.
Volkan was Town Doc, not Vanilla Town.
Thus, I am "half" right.
That, when combined with the fact I got a power means a.) either the power is fake or b.) I got a power when I wasn't right.

As for the latter. Why wouldn't there be simple goons? What the hell else would I guess?

Um...that was an ATTACK I was making on SpyreX, not a defense. And calling it WIFOM is silly; it's simply a fact that scum have more reason to kill a sane investigative role then one they know is paranoid and useless.

Except that they wouldn't know he is useless? In fact, the evidence pointed to him being sane. So, he gets a hit on someone that he shouldn't - great time to kill him and then get a free mislynch.

No, not two; we've only had one "real" night so far, right? So only 1 cult recruit.

Only way there could be two is if he was a day cult recruiter (which wouldn't really surprise me, considering).

Any reason why n0 wouldn't be able to recruit and that you're already dismissing that?

[SpyreX]

I am a Psychic Townie.

Each night I send in a player and a role. If I am right I get powers for the next night.

[SpyreX]

*blink*

You're ignoring the possibility that the power was fake, which earlier you clearly said was a possibility.

And even though logic says you should keep claimed power roles alive, I just can't believe you any more. There's just too much confusion with your claim. A town power role isn't going to give so much room for all those conjectures.

Unvote, Vote SpyreX

I'm trying to follow the process through. I got "something" and from my information I would assume that, fake or not, that means I got a hit.

Again, I would assume that if I was totally wrong I would get NOTHING. So when I say Mafia Goon + Power = NOT town PR that makes sense to me?

All of this is secondary to the fact that I wanted to lynch DTM regardless of this due to his connections with los scum AND the way he came out today.

If you got a power why are we having this debate on scum me or not.... the whole point of the conjecture was you gain a power on your guess but you don't know if you can confirm it.

Explain now because we have scum here if you quick lynch me. You shouldn't have a power from me since I'm VT, not Mafia Goon. If I die now then you can confirm that Spyrex is wrong and lying.

Take a step back.

I expect you to flip mafia. Maybe even mafia goon and watch is totally legit.

In the case that I am wrong and you are what you say

, then I have to assume Goon = Vanilla OR this role just flat out doesn't make sense OR I'm missing something entirely.

[SpyreX]

I'll try again:

There you acknowledged the possibility of your power being fake because your investigation was wrong, yes?

Yes.

Because, I was "half" right. Not totally wrong. And I got something for it. From the PM I would assume I got

nothing

if I was totally wrong.

So, my getting

something

from DTM means either a.) I am right or b.) I am half right.

I'm not seeing this glaring discrepancy. I got

something

that I don't know if actually worked. I, again, got

something

that I wont know until tonight if it actually works. And, even then, I can't verify this one myself.

If i flip VT you are dead because "you got a power from me". Read your role PM one last time and summarize it the best you can, you said if you were right you should gain a power . Crazy outlines that you either get half a power from a half right response from Volken's flip.

This is why I wanted to make sure you can watch someone. If it's fake I'm not mafia. I'm either townie or third party. If you can watch someone successfully then I am some form of mafia.

This verifies your claim.

Do you object to this because if I get lynched today, we cannot verify your claim.

1.) I doubt you're going to flip VT, but even if that were true and goon = vanilla then I would be half right.

2.) I have the ability to watch someone tonight. How in the name of everything would I be able to presciently say if its "fake" or not now?

I'm not re-explaining this for a third time. If you have questions go back to it. Nothing mystical is changing.

[SpyreX]

I already HAVE the watch ability from targeting you last night.

So, for "ignoring" this plan my issues are thus:

1.) I think DTM is scum and would be voting for him thus if none of this had happened.
2.) Not seeing a scum RB flip screams "do this, block SpyreX and then be doing this exact same dance tomorrow after we get our daykill again."
3.) I don't really think I need more than 1 or 2 ffs.

I'm still shaking my head at the "Yea, as scum he killed the cop hoping he'd flip cop to lynch himself."

And if I'm spreading vagueness about my PM its because it is vague. I'm giving conjecture because as I initially read it I SHOULD NOT have got the hide ability to begin with.

[SpyreX]

Read Cass's quote from my previous post. Try again.

I really don't buy this claim, considering neither of your received abilities are confirmable, your claim doesn't even make sense to you, and you're inviting yourself to be roleblocked.

Sorry "Yea, as scum his buddies threw him under the bus by killing the cop to get him lynched." the end result is the same though and thats the part I'm shaking my head at.

Inviting myself to be roleblocked? You mean assuming that the scum aren't functionally retarded, right?

No, it doesn't make sense to me as it sits - unless DTM does flip Mafia like I expect.

Well, there wasn't a real nightkill night zero, there was a fake flavor kill. I would doubt there was a cult recruit, either.

But hey, you're the scum. Why don't you tell us if scum got to act night zero?

Kill != Recruit.

I'm not exactly sure why you're saying I was "buddy buddy" with him; I actually said the miller claim made him slightly more likely to be scum.

Then got all over EB for "saving him for a mislynch" which would imply that you believed the claim, no?

After saying that you'd claimed miller day 1 (implying that it is a null, not scum tell).

Silly me.

[SpyreX]

Yea, since my role PM with what happened didn't make sense from my interpretation I was forced to assume.

But, you know what, fine.

Lynch DTM today. If he doesn't flip mafia then tomorrow lynch me. Hell, I'll even vote for myself.

That way after my lynch you have another day of results after I flip.

[SpyreX]

Woo hoo back late.

Did you ask the mod anything about your role, SpyreX?

Just clarification on what I needed to send in as a "role".

I want you to clarify, now. Do you or do you not have the ability to watch. Are you certain about this: that is are you certain that you can watch someone at night or do you only know you were granted the ability to watch

.. I'm not sure what you are getting at. I have the ability to watch tonight.

As for if it "works" correctly I can't easily verify that myself. Thats the nature of the watch.

Something more common in these types of games. Roleblocker or Busdriver or something like that.
Or, if you thought your power gave you abilities when you were only half right, you could have guessed something like Mafia Batmobile. That way, you could have used your ability as an alignment cop would use his.
Or you could test your sanity by using Billy Mays on BM, since everyone knows that BM's initials actually stand for Billy Mays, not Battle Mage, like he would have you believe.
Any way I spin it, your claimed role just has way too many grey areas to be useful. We don't know if your powers are even real. You could even be getting insane watching abilities for guessing wrongly on DTM, if both of you be truthful.
I think this grey area was a plan of yours as scum to be able to get DTM lynched without having any responsibility for whatever he may flip.
Vote: SpyreX.

Except for the fact that Goon should be more common than Busdriver in any setup.

And, you know, the fact I said go ahead and lynch me tomorrow if he's not a mafia goon. That way I get one more guess tonight and the use of my watch. Or, the chuckleheads kill me and I'm dead and not a wasted lynch.

[SpyreX]

I'm not sure how you got I was saying Goon = Townie. My theory was Goon = Vanilla as in both are powerless. But, who knows.

And as for DTM keeping me alive - well, he's dead to rights if I get killed today so.

Regardless, I've laid it out. Lynch DTM and if he's not scum then rope me tomorrow. I get one more night to try a test (and I'll do some version of the Lamborghini test) and try to use my watch.

There ya go.

[SpyreX]

... what?

No, I meant dead to rights.

I get killed, flip Psychic between my investigation and your play you're dead tomorrow. Period.

Nothing about you being town. I've been pretty clear about that.

[SpyreX]

Sure I'll bite Vi:

SpyreX's claim is bad in at least two different directions, but at the same time if he's telling the truth there's quite a bit more to gain from lynching DTMaster now even if they're both Town.

I'm not understanding this explaining the vote switch.

[SpyreX]

Ohh hay stuff here.

Your claim makes no sense in the first place and is in no way confirmable. Both of these are traits I would expect from a scumclaim. In addition, I still think charter's result on you is valid.

As fun as it is rehashing old ground I wont. However, this has been your stance for a while and what changed from me to DTM to me again?

Or are you saying DTM is town and I'm scum?

But, well lets deal with the larger more bizarre fish.

Why do you say this? Is it because I am pressuring you, and not him? Do you think that I wouldn't vote him?

Maybe the rest of that post would be why. Its not the "pressure" its the fact that its based on this fabulous pile of, well, lies. As for the vote.. have you voted him? Why would I think you would?

I was more-so talking about who you put as scum. Also, you didn't list everyone in the game, I believe.

No, on the wagon analysis around charter and the push on me that I called as such I, in fact, didn't list everyone in the game. Nor did I claim to.

And you're saying the "general consensus" at that point was: Nik, DTM, the claimed miller, yos and you were scum?

I know, and I want to know how you got that

Pretty sure I covered this at least once but: Crazy

looked

at what was going on and wanted clarification instead of jumping willy nilly on. Further, and this is important, when the flip said Paranoid he went "Ohh, paranoid means paranoid."

Don't like this response. You are either right, and you get powers, or if you are wrong, you get nothing or some how get screwed. What does that last part mean? Somehow get screwed? Like modkilled? Night killed? What? How do you get screwed?

If I knew the answers I would have given them. I've freely admitted that a huge chunk of this is conjecture because, get this, what I thought happened with my role (in regards to Volkan) didn't happen.

What I really don't like about this is, according to you, you will get a power up no matter how he flips. At least, that's what it looks like to me. It just feels like you're adding and adding to your claim.

Let me be clear. Again. For the last time.

I have already got my power for targeting DTM.

This lynch has nothing to do with GETTING powers from it.

Also because Charter got a guilty on him. <--- original reason.
And I do not like his claim at all. It just seems like a big clusterfuck that he keeps adding to.

If DTM is not scum, lynch me tomorrow. That is my plan.

What have I added? Go ahead and show what I've added. I'd like to see it.

And, I swear my eyes are going to pop out of their sockets at paranoid != paranoid.

[SpyreX]

Wait, what?

I submitted DTM as a Goon last night. Pretty sure there wasn't a claim until today.

As Maritya flipped Mafia and DTM was a huge apologist in that mess I sure as hell assumed he'd be Mafia.

So, no, not prescient.

[SpyreX]

I think he's mafia. My investigation supports that.

I've said that if he doesn't flip mafia goon go ahead and lynch me tomorrow.

That should clear that up right nice.

[SpyreX]

It wasn't a loophole - Volkan flipping Doc and me getting a power from it made no sense from my understanding of said role and I was explaining what happened.

As for DTM?

1.) The business yesterday with Mariyta.
2.) Coming out today and BUILDING A CASE ON HIMSELF.... then:
3.) Jumping wagons for survival.... then:
4.) Trying to keep me alive because, get this, when I die he's going up the tree.

Thats the gist in a nice small bulleted list

[SpyreX]

So, I just want to make sure I've got this process clear.

I made up a role that doesn't work the way I thought it would and had to make a myriad of assumptions on how it might work to save myself by attempting to mislynch a claimed Vanilla Townie with no vote for the rest of the game who was in bed with scum yesterday AND built a case on himself today and opted to give myself no wiggle room because if its a mislynch I'll vote myself tomorrow?

Which all happened because I was getting steam-wagoned by a paranoid cop that got shot after he started wagoning me?

That about sum up what you said there?

[SpyreX]

Sorry missed that one CKD. No breadcrumbs.

At least we are clear on how things stand even if it makes my teeth itch.

[SpyreX]

Ohh hoss no. Play first.

[SpyreX]

L-1. Awesome.

This wasn't a bunch of moving parts role. It was very simple - UNTIL Volkan flipped Doc. The rest of that was conjecture based on that fact.

The fact that the poeple on my wagon are saying DTM is town because I am scum and, ultimately, not focusing on the play are awesome.

The fact I am now in lynch range after offering myself up if I am wrong is awesome.

The fact that some of the self-same people have said that DTM must be lynched before lylo because he has no vote AND has tied himself to a flipped scum is also awesome.

The wall of awesome is crushing. My breath leaves.

[SpyreX]

I'm at l-1 with the other major wagon not voting for me. I don't have time to even begin with that dissection.

I am more than willing to gamble that he is mafia because I thought he was mafia before this whole cluster went down. The role is just simply support.

I am "forcing" this into me versus him because it IS me versus him right now.

[SpyreX]

God in heaven I forgot about that in my blinding rage at this wagon.

I will do said analysis tonight, or you can lynch me. Deal?

[SpyreX]

Alright lets actually look at this wagon:

BloodCovenant, Crazy, Yosarian2, Nikanor, Vi, curiouskarmadog

Lets take a step by step analysis.

1.) BC:

Very well,

unvote:
Vote: SpyreX
Last time this worked very well.

I presume there is going to be some kill/poison/what not that spyre is going to do? If we don't lynch him fast enough?

Charter flips, I give my analysis (calling him out as a probable DTM partner) then:

On my iPod here, got a post coming real shortly, i'm just going to class shortly, I should have it up in 2-3 hours. Around 1:30 est. Time. I'm not a big fan of spyre's analysis, there is something fishy about it IMHO.

Then we get post 38 - which I wont quote because its a large one but I have already picked that one apart for the serious :headdesk: in it.

Then nothing substantial for a while (6 days) when he comes back in from lurking to say he was lurking. Then we get post 45. Which we'll illustrate again to be nice and clear:

Also because Charter got a guilty on him. <--- original reason.
And I do not like his claim at all. It just seems like a big clusterfuck that he keeps adding to.
Agreed. Why would scum spyre investigate team mate DTM scum?

Note that its the paranoid cop somehow isn't paranoid + my claim + DTM isn't scum if I am. This is going to crop up a lot.

2.) Crazy

Good enough for me.

Unvote, Vote SpyreX

(Tajo, my suspects

were DTM

and Nikanor... any more than that, I'll have to reread.)

Wait, charter, SpyreX is CONFIRMED scum, right? Absolutely, positively?

Ugh, now I wish charter had given us more information while he was alive.

Given that he was paranoid, it seems that Mariyta was telling the truth and it ended up being a fluke that she was scum.

I'm pretty sure charter's death nulls any case on SpyreX, but DTM and Nikanor are still scummy.

Unvote
Vote DTMaster

This is fine. Then, we get into woofland:

Yos has a point... Charter's role was obviously not a normal "Paranoid Cop," so the paranoid could mean something else, since this is a somewhat bastardly game.

I'll take a gamble that Charter did actually know SpyreX was scum.

Unvote
Vote SpyreX

So, now we see part one of the triumvrate - the illustrious Paraniod Cop != Paranoid Cop.

(I wonder if the other two will pop up? Lets press on!).

SpyreX's claim is very hard to believe for me, but I don't see any downside to keeping him alive for now, since he could further prove his claim, and we can always lynch him later.

Unvote
Vote DTM

So he believes me at this point - or, at minimum sees DTM as a better lynch.

SpyreX is either a town power role or scum.
DTM is either a vanilla townie or scum.

They're both likely to be scum, but there's less risk involved with lynching DTM.

Still same sentiment.

*blink*

You're ignoring the possibility that the power was fake, which earlier you clearly said was a possibility.

And even though logic says you should keep claimed power roles alive, I just can't believe you any more. There's just too much confusion with your claim. A town power role isn't going to give so much room for all those conjectures.

Unvote, Vote SpyreX

Now its the claim.

Yes to the first question. I find it very unlikely that someone other than SpyreX or DTM is going to be lynched today.

Now I don't think the lynches are of equal value. I think SpyreX has about a 98% chance of being scum, which means

that DTM is probably just freaked town

(unless if SpyreX is from another faction not associated with Mariyta).

SpyreX's claim just has too many holes in it. Fake abilities, half-right investigations, and abilities being "better" than others; these are all things that he just ASSUMED, that didn't actually come from his role PM. What kind of townie is going to assume all that crap instead of just using Occam's Razor?

Ohh look around the horn!

I'd rather lynch SpyreX first and only lynch DTM if SpyreX was town. (And just assume that Goon =/= Vanilla.)

The reasoning is that I'm almost positive that SpyreX is scum, but I'm leaning town for DTM.

And then we get leaning town on DTM (not just as a function from my "bad claim" one would assume.)

At least its not like we're back at Charter not being what he flipped again too....

I meant I'd prefer that rather than DTM lynched first and the SpyreX lynched if DTM was town, since DTM is far more likely to be town than SpyreX.

I said that because I'm almost completely positive that SpyreX is scum. Keeping him alive for one more day just seems pointless. Charter the not-a-typical-paranoid-cop got a guilty on him, and his role claim makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. He's scum.

OHH there it is.

God, this is depressing.

3.) Yos2

Lets do another.

Yeah, I wasn't planning on quicklynching DT today either. But then he claimed vanilla for absolulty no reason. Lol.

Vote:DT Master

This is before Chartergate but since he wasn't around for it we need a starting point. That being that DTM is play scummy.

I have a hunch that charter wasn't a normal "paranoid cop". If he was, then what was all that stuff about how Marytia poisoned someone? He wouldn't have gotten information that specific from a normal cop investigation. Plus, his turn on SpyreX was really, really sudden; if it was based on an investigation, it would have had to be a day investigation. Plus, I don't really think charter-cop would investigate SpyreX there, he had several bigger suspectects.

This being a bastard mod game and all, I think charter was very likely some other kind of information role that just happened to have the role name "paranoid cop".

Unvote Vote:SpyreX

Although I still wouldn't mind a DT lynch today either.

Ahh, here it is again.

DT: What I would like to hear is some kind of explanation for why you claimed vanilla townie under no pressure, for no reason, and then voted yourself.

If you're town, claiming like that is incredibly bad for the town, for pretty obvious reasons, and I'm pretty sure you know that, so it makes me think you're scum.

Also, it makes you an even better lynch.

And, vote still on me, but.

ALl caught up now. Not really buying this Spyrex claim, it dosn't make much sense, but I'll wait a bit and see.

Also, geez, a cult recruiter? That was a stroke of luck. There might be a cult recruit somewhere in the game, who got recruited last night...not a high priority to find now, but something to think about.

Anyway, Vote:DTMaster for now

Italics are important. Just remember that. And, the claim comes into play.

My three biggest suspects yesterday were mari, electricbadger, and dtmaster. It seemed to me that electircbadger and DTmaster were both scum who were trying to first fish for Charter's role and trying to defend their scum buddy Mari in really, really scummy looking ways. I was right about Mari and DTmaster.

And then, of course, DTmaster claimed vanilla for no reason, which pretty much means he needs to die today.

I would guess that both DTmaster and SpyreX are scum here, but since SpyreX claimed what could be a useful power role I'm willing to give him a little time and see what happens.

Play reasons for DTM being scum? Check.
Rationalizing DTM lynch before me? Check.

(then the Cult Conjecture which I'm not dealing with right now)

Post 29 - a giant case on lynching DTM.

Meh.

Unvote:DT
Vote:SpyreX

I'd still like to see them both die today, if any dayvigs are willing to make that happen, but I'm now more convinced that SpyreX is scum. DT is still PROBABLY scum, and defiantly someone we can do without no matter what now that he dosn't even have a vote, but there's a chance he's town

Ahh, the shoe drops. At least this one is we're both still scum. I can appreciate that more than the others.

Still, we've got Charter + Claim again though.

4.) Nikanor

Keep in mind he was all over DTM day 1. But, like with the others, lets get to the point.

Explain, please.

About charter's death, I cannot think of anyone else who had anything at all to gain from it than SpyreX. Non-SpyreX scum? Possible, but it would make more sense for them to wait for SpyreX's lynch before killing charter. Pro-town killing roles? Again, possible, but severely unlikely, considering we lynched scum yesterday with his investigation. The only conclusion I can come up with is that SpyreX is scum. Vote: SpyreX.
L-1 ahoy.

The (explain) is asking about how paranoid is a Post Restriction and not part of his role.

This one actually hurts less than the others because its not based around Charter being somehow not paranoid. But.

Okay, the things I dislike most about SpyreX's claim are that he claims to have used his power on vollkan N0 and predicted that he was a Town Vanilla. He got a power, but didn't know if it was fake or not. He hypothesizes that if he is half right, that half being the 'town' part, that he would get a power. Then, he claims to have investigated DTM N1 as Mafia Goon. Now, he says that he thinks he can be half right and still get a power. That means that either a) DTM is mafia, not goon, and SpyreX's claim is unrefuted, or b) DTM is vanilla, not mafia, and SpyreX's claim is unrefuted. It is a very safe claim for him to make. I also don't like how he chose 'mafia goon' as an investigation. It is my understanding that there are very rarely mafia goons in a setup such as this. So why would SpyreX choose to guess Mafia Goon on DTM? It makes no sense. Care to explain this to me, SpyreX?

This is new. Confusing, but new.

Something more common in these types of games. Roleblocker or Busdriver or something like that.
Or, if you thought your power gave you abilities when you were only half right, you could have guessed something like Mafia Batmobile. That way, you could have used your ability as an alignment cop would use his.
Or you could test your sanity by using Billy Mays on BM, since everyone knows that BM's initials actually stand for Billy Mays, not Battle Mage, like he would have you believe.
Any way I spin it, your claimed role just has way too many grey areas to be useful. We don't know if your powers are even real. You could even be getting insane watching abilities for guessing wrongly on DTM, if both of you be truthful.
I think this grey area was a plan of yours as scum to be able to get DTM lynched without having any responsibility for whatever he may flip.
Vote: SpyreX.

A good way to use the ability but still... what happened to the in-game reasons for DTM?

5.) Vi

Coming out voting Nik (which is new and I approve of).

Of course, ultimately I blame Vi for all of this for this one:

...Wait, now it all makes sense! Idea
Paranoid wasn't necessarily his sanity, it was a post restriction!

Crazy, why did you immediately jump off SpyreX after charter's death? I'm still trying to find out why people are in such a hurry to discredit charter. How does a nonrandom Cop get a "fluke" investigation? See Yos2 637.

Well, not totally because of the reference for Yos but this is one of those tipping point style setups where the parrots got some strength.

Then there is a lot of discussion (which is in large posts so) which I approve of.

Yea, his claim stinketh,
And of they who were opposed to charter, DTMaster seems most genuine.
Lo, DTMaster has already been rendered voteless and is only a threat if he is a Serial Killer or the last Mafioso, both possibilities I can scarce believe at this hour.

I also believe charter, though it has been said that my eyes art as glassed as the rays of the moon for such thoughts.

One of the few pro-DTM players which is interesting but I have reasons stated to believe Vi isn't scum with DTM so I've gotta run with just being wrong on this one.

Not any more.

I'm really torn on this lynch.
SpyreX's claim is bad in at least two different directions, but at the same time if he's telling the truth there's quite a bit more to gain from lynching DTMaster now even if they're both Town.

Why are people lurking through this game?

Then this one that still confuses me with the next post where Vi switches FROM DTM to me... but this one:

Your claim makes no sense in the first place and is in no way confirmable. Both of these are traits I would expect from a scumclaim. In addition,

I still think charter's result on you is valid.

Bolded for .

So, we're at, once again Claim + Charter although we don't have DTM is town because of it which is good. DTM was just town for being genuine in protecting a flipped scum.

And, finally:

6.) CKD

charter's dead? Paranoid. I bet he thought he was hot shit getting two scum results back to back.

however, it should be noted that someone was scared of him...he is dead.

==

ok anyway..DTM, what the fuck? WHy again are you claiming? What was the point of that?

nope, given this wagon, i dont think Spy is scum

DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT A DISTORTER DOES? If you dont can you please say you dont.

I actually I dont like either lynch today.

dont get me wrong, I didnt like DTM yesterday, and his claim and self vote/"I am at -1 tread lightly" crap seems silly....but he seems like he is actively trying to help town today (after his 1st couple of posts).

I think Spy's claim is utterly silly....but this is BM modding..(looks at the PR) silly shit is going to happen. I also dont think spy is a day killing role. in reference to his claim, if he was scum, there would be numerous other targets to claim hitting that would have given him an easier time today....that being said, it is hard to swallow that he didnt try to target a claimed role today to gauge his power....I also dont like how quickly Spy's wagon grew even after seeing that charter was paranoid.

if a gun was pointed to my head and I had to pick one of the two.....I guess it would be Spy.

however, there is no gun to my head.

vote randomlunatic

didnt like his play or votes yesterday...dont like his play or questions today. I dont think he has done anything that is remotely protown.

I see where DTM is coming from.

on the other hand BM is a bastard mod..so if "you get it right you get powers", could mean "if you get it wrong you get powers that dont do anything but I wont tell you that"....but that is a stretch

vote Spy

not so much for what DTM said, but the fact that you had a claim that you didnt check your power against....I dont believe you didnt try to test your power on something that looked confirmable(claimed miller). not to mention that your first "power" you were given is totally unconfirmable. Also, the role seems flawed, because lets say you find one person that you are correct about you can keep targetting them every night...seems silly.

Wow, no mention of Charter! Still the claim itself but woo! And an actual analysis of DTM even if the result is town!

So, lets look at this in short form now:

I'm ran up here because of a.) A paranoid cops investigation and b.) A claim that "doesn't make sense" which, to at least a good portion of said wagon leads to c.) DTM isn't scum.

Yet, oddly enough, before this happened the selfsame people were all over DTM with good reason. But, this evaporated even when in some cases, again, they said lynching DTM first makes sense.

It doesn't add up. It never did.

So, my thoughts on this wagon:

BC - Scum with DTM. Seriously.
Crazy - Started out strong then whoof. If there weren't a million scumflips already I'd be thinkin scum but I'll go with town barely.
Yos2 - Cult.
Nik - Scum, but I don't think with DTM. I'd put money that he had something to do with the Charter shot.
Vi - Town. Play is solid. I hid and am not dead (whoo).
CKD - Town. I'm not stoked but at least what he's saying makes a ton more sense than some of the others.

There.

[SpyreX]

God I forgot to address that because, well, its an unwinnable situation but here you go:

Today after I started getting ran up I did ask a question.

And my response was unhelpful and impossible to paraphrase.

So.

And Nik you're still scum for the L-1 vote on me after I said I was going to claim / setup for a death-lynch.

[SpyreX]

Its far more general than that and made it clear I wasn't getting anything more than what my PM actually had in it.

Lets leave it at that - I'm not getting modkilled.

[SpyreX]

What did you really expect? I mean, seriously.

That I would get this elaborate game-altering explanation and there would be a party?

No, its a loaded question regardless and the fact that I'm getting strung up for this is so amazingly irritating I can't put it into words.

[SpyreX]

My bad for trying to make sense of what information I had.

I think its moot though and the "hit" was on the Mafia part as this goes on.

But, choo choo.

[SpyreX]

Explaning what appears to be some kind of bastardization in detail at this point wouldn't alter the game?

[SpyreX]

I love how this is a bus now.

In what world, considering the fact that ohh, half of you even if DTM is scum would STILL want to lynch me tomorrow would this bus even make the slightest bit of sense? Especially when some of the selfsame people think that if I was scum that would free DTM.

In fact, I'm extra bothered by Crazy's implication that DTM should never be lynched.

Yos calling me scum for saying he's cult is standard procedure though.

And Vi:

1.) Is there a case, has there ever been a case, for me actually being scummy? That is news to me. It's been, like I illustrated: charter + claim. Always that.
3.) 100% confirmable? No. However, we haven't even seen if I am right about THIS one much less what happens tomorrow.

Which is another awesome kick in the shins at me that if I am RIGHT that I'm still scum.

[SpyreX]

Not a formal one, but do you really need more than charter + claim to find scum?
You need to join the circle of Cop haters. The claim is either your own fault or Battle Mage's fault, so.

Yes. God yes. Especially since this is the faultless wagon: when I flip everyone gets to go "Ohh, welp I guess WORDS MEAN WHAT WORDS ARE" and "Ohh, I guess he was telling the truth about the conjecture."

At least a freaking case has back and forth you can look at for geniune attacks versus the wagoners. This? Nothing.

And I do hate cops. However, I'm even more baffled

at the flipped Paranoid Cop

having rationale here.

And yes I do hate BM a little. I was stoked about it until Volkan flipped Doc and not Vanilla and then I had no idea WTF.

(A side note: I did ask another question and DID get a result that is useful (while not surprising): I can not target the same person twice).

--NOTHING-- about what you have said

so far

is confirmable - the claim itself, your speculation about the claim, your alleged Hider result (which is accurate at least, but not confirmable), or your alleged Watch (oops, didn't see anything/got roleblocked).
Your claim would START to have credence if DTMaster flipped Mafia Anything. Which brings up the question of how much faith I should expect to have in your claim in the first place and whether that would make it worth testing, loop to beginning of argument.

So far is the important part. As for the watch if I say I saw nothing and someone DID go there welp there you go. Or, vica versa.

And, gods forbid, I actually GET a confirmable power. Then the world would implode.

[SpyreX]

So just for restating what's already been restated, the case on DTMaster is:
*hating on charter vs. Mariyta
*OMGfalling apart at beginning of D2
*suddenly pulling self together when SpyreX became a valid wagon
?
I'm really not going along with this.

Wouldn't your previous notOMGUS analysis suggest that you can find genuine attacks versus the wagoners?

Speaking bluntly, why should we take you at your word?

Hating on charter is bothersome. The fact it oozed DTM wanting Mariyta, a scum PR, to survive is far more important.

Not to mention the OMGFalling apart wasn't your simple "fuck this, vote: myself" -

he built a case on himself

. I mean, seriously.

And, again, the key is suddenly. #2 makes even

less

sense, if possible, as town if it 180's directly into survival at the first opportunity.

I found genuine attacks - CKD and you, respectively. However, in team parrot tomorrow would be the inverse of today as far as chartergate.

@DTM:

I hate cops in general in setups. This may come as a surprise, but games like to shut off their brain far, far too much when a cop comes into play. Thats not a -this game- sentiment.

Kudos on trying to call it out that way!

Maybe Crazy your new bff will pick up on it too!

[SpyreX]

Vi you are killing me here.

You seem to agree with almost everything I'm saying except for, of course, where your vote is.

Regardless of what happens at this juncture we are doing this dance tomorrow barring a vig killing whichever one of us doesn't get lynched today (as thusly stated by team BUS if I am right or the fact I'm willing to lynch/get shot/explode if I am wrong).

I'm not sure what else we're going to get.

[SpyreX]

Not really "almost everything"...
It would be closer to the truth to say that we don't contest the details leading to my decision that you're more likely scum.

No, not that.

About Yos, Nik, et all. About everything I'm saying regarding the game as a whole except for me .

And for DTM and why I keep hammering the case he built on himself:

A townie giving up is one thing. A townie that is able to parse his play, build a case on himself

as scum

and vote for himself requires a level of cognitive dissonance that just doesn't add up.

[SpyreX]

So you're saying that building a case on yourself being scum makes perfect sense as town?

Awesome.

Doubly so considering your flip on DTM.

[SpyreX]

Welll, hells bells.

Time to come clean I guess.

I AM a Psychic. Just, well, not a town one.

I win if I successfully pick the lynch target three times. In the greatest piece of guesswork ever n0 I DID pick Maryita to get lynched (a total guess).

Needless to say, I have picked DTM today for the lynch. Which means, shock and awe, if I pick myself tomorrow I win and vaminos.

So, yes, I was lying because I didn't think for a second you'd actually HELP me get a third party win. No, I'm not scum.

Aside from that -tiny- white lie everything else I've said today is true:

1.) Paranoid DOES mean paranoid.
2.) Vi is town. CKD is town.
3.) Nik is scum. DTM is scum. Yos is probably the cult recruit.
4.) Crazy's 180 on DTM based on his projections of me is very, VERY bothersome.

So, there you go. I'm not so hot with third parties it seems. I THOUGHT my claim was good but I sure didn't think through the specifics (although someday I think I want to use it in a setup ).

[SpyreX]

No, I have no "facts". That's just me reading the game.

My actual role is simply if I correctly pick the lynch three times I win.

[SpyreX]

No I am not pro-town. However, I'm not ANTI-town either.

My winning does NOTHING to your winning.

I still think DTM is scum and your weird relationship throughout this day is extremely telling so.

I'm saying, lynch DTM and tomorrow I'll pick myself and then you get to lynch me and I get to be lynched and we all win.

And yes, this means that if I win the game continues.

And I'm extremely miffed that through a stroke of luck I am THIS close to winning and yet Paranoid Cop is going to screw it up.

[SpyreX]

.... Yea, Mariya, DTM and tomorrow myself makes 3.

Awesome hammer.

[SpyreX]

Fun game.

Although my claim was bad I still want to see the night actions and role PM's. Nothing like getting nailed by a paranoid cop that flips paranoid cop and STILL getting lynched for it!

FTR it was NOT my mafia group that killed charter.

[SpyreX]

I was mafia with Ben and Poro

[SpyreX]

I'm still waiting patiently for BM to lay out the setup. Hmmph.

[SpyreX]

My world for a setup

[SpyreX]

I STILL am going to post here so that it doesn't die and BM gives us the setup.

[SpyreX]

WE DEMAND RELEASE

[SpyreX]

I'm pretty sure my role and stuff was in the QT but I was a bookie with Benmage and Poro.

Each night I picked a target and if they got lynched we got an NK on top of the Day shot.

I picked Maryita n0 (GO GO RANDOM GUESS)
I picked DTM n1
IF I could have weasled out I was going to pick myself n2.

The real issue I want is who killed charter, you giant damnits.

[SpyreX]

We were screwing with flips quite a bit.

I'm -pretty- sure my teammates didn't throw me under the bus so I want to know WHO DID IT.

There was two scum teams, for sho'. The OTHERS may have done it but I'm not even sure who all they were: GIEFF, Nikanor and ?

[SpyreX]

Maryita... thats right we didn't screw with that flip.

[SpyreX]

Ohh duh, Nik claimed the kill.

NIKKKKK

I was on cloud nine until that happened.
Then I was happy until I realized that even paranoid you jerks were gonna lynch me.
Then I cried because this game was a hoot and a half.

[SpyreX]

Charter gets some props for hitting two scum back to back while, of course, being paranoid but because of the ^ no one believing he was paranoid.

So it goes.