Teleportation Mafia Universe TWO (TOWN WINS)
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DeathRowKitty sheFrog
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DeathRowKitty sheFrogshe
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Well, that would require having a good idea of someone who's mafia, in which case we should be lynching that person instead of teleporting.
Then again, I can see the logic to that. Our goal is to win this game, not the other and as long as we can scumhunt more effectively than the town from the other universe, a trade like that would benefit us. It would also produce some healthy competition between the two towns and it would probably be more in the spirit of the game.
I'm really fine with either plan. We do have to get the other universe to agree to it though.-
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DeathRowKitty sheFrogshe
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I'm happy with leaving the decision on who to teleport to the teleporter. At the very least, not knowing who's going to be teleported makes it harder for the scum to decide on a NK.
For example, let's say the teleporter was going to teleport scum to the other universe. Scum might decide to NK him to avoid it. Or maybe one scum is already in the other universe and the teleporter is about to teleport another. Scum might decide to switch their focus to the other universe.
Plus, scum have the power to have a decent influence on a vote, without revealing too much information through voting patterns, since we won't know the alignment of teleported players until later on.
Basically, I think it's better we just let the teleporters do what they want.-
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DeathRowKitty sheFrogshe
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Quoted because mykonian said to quote it:
mykonian wrote:Healthy competition between universes is good? JC, capitalism in mafia games, and it rings no alarm with anyone.
Seriously, what you are thinking about will do no good. Teleporters are no vigs. Esspecially since both towns are probably about equal in strenght, the teleportation is unlikely to get all the mafia out of one universe into the other without the other universe sending them back.
Randomly, the teleportation will have very little effect. We send and they send, and both towns will not benefit. Screwing them over will just screw us over too. Because we will be screwed: using this tactic it forces the towns to reread the other universe, it kills arguments based on scum-interactions, and the new player coming into this universe is forced to reread the whole game. A lot of information is lost, and all the mechanic does is confuse.
Plum is right: scumhunting will win the game. Town, by definition, wins by helping each other, playing together. In this game this is no different, even across universes. Please someone quote this in the other universe.mykonian wrote:the strategy I propose: (for clarity)
no teleportation. In case the other universe sends a player, teleport him back next night, that way restoring the universes. That player sadly would not be able to post in the other universe, but he would not have to worry about splitting his attention.
Further, no universe would have to worry about the amount of scum and scumteams.
The teleporter=vig strategy only works during endgame, where it is the last action made (winning or losing the game afterwards).-
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DeathRowKitty sheFrogshe
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I disagree. 12-3 mountanous would favor mafia. Even with the mason, it's probably balaned in favor of mafia. The teleporter is meant to be a positive pro-town role. Not teleporting means we lose whatever advantage it was meant to give the town.mykonian wrote:extra information supporting this strategy:
if there is no teleportation, we have 4 mislynches. Added to this that there are 2 players that can be confirmed, the game seems to be balanced in favor of town: meaning that the mod expects something to work against the town. The mafia has no real powerrole that could cause this, so it must be the mechanic itself!
I don't support the no teleporting idea.-
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DeathRowKitty sheFrogshe
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Unvote, vote DocPotter
It looks to me like he's just trying to push his agenda with no regards for the points actually being made. The teleport scummy players option has grown less appealing since he joined in on it.
I think we have a better option though (and the other universe will hate me for suggesting it (actually farside hinted at it)). Our universe seems to be moving faster than the other universe. We can come to a concensus for a lynch faster and thus teleport more frequently. Ya get ma drift?
It would put us in constant competition with the other town, but it would also probably give us the best chance of winning.-
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DeathRowKitty sheFrogshe
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Also, I would like to point out before someone brings it up that lynching faster doesn't have to hurt us. We're posting frequently enough that we could arrive at a lynch more quickly without a drop-off in the quality of lynches.
[taunt]Besides, we're cooler than Universe 1. This is the perfect way to show it. [/taunt]-
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Originally, he seemed to me to be really trying to force the issue, moreso than simply trying to argue an alternative. TBH, I'd forgotten my vote was on him (I've been in an odd state of mind the past couple of days).Hudo wrote:I’m waiting to see if he’ll elaborate on his claim that Doc is the worst offender for pushing agenda and not regarding positives of other strategies.
Unvote. I no longer think he's scum. His more recent posts have been coming off to me as him genuinely arguing for an alternative he thinks is better.
I singled Elli out for the same reason I asked in the first place: this post. I figured that warranted an "Is your vote serious?" post.Hudo wrote:@DeathRowKitty: Why did you single out Ellibereth? What do you think of the rest of Maelyn’s wagon?
I think the Maelyn wagon was a good thing to have in this game out of the RVS, but it's not something to bring to a lynch or a claim. There's just no substance behind it.
I don't see anyone on the Maelyn wagon as particularly scummy, considering that, despite having almost 8 pages of posts, we've had little discussion from which to discern alignments. Basically, I'm of the philosophy that bandwagon=good. Heck, even Maelyn supported this one for a while.
Vote: Lowellfor this:
It looks to me like a subtle jab to try to take down a plan that was at the time viewed as the town's best option without actually expressing disagreement with the plan. Basically, an attempt to stop Kairyuu's plan without it seeming like he was the one trying to stop it.Lowell wrote:Honestly the biggest problem I see with kairyuus plan is the teleporter wont' WANT to do it. Being teleporter seems like it would be fun.-
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DeathRowKitty sheFrogshe
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How is that odd? My objection to your post isn't that you didn't want the teleporter to claim; it's that it seemed like you were trying to subtly derail Kairyuu's plan.Lowell wrote: 57- DRK doesn't want to direct the teleporter [-, odd, given his latest objection]
Based on the discussion going on at the time, directing the teleporter would have been bad.-
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DeathRowKitty sheFrog
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We don't need you to be "comfy" with your vote. You may as well have just said you're sitting on an early game vote for the hell of it.Elli wrote:And I'm still comfy with my vote, awating Hayle's better post.
This post, which is too long to quote without ruining the asthetics of this post, makes a lot of sense. [Obligatory "I'll get to it later" comment]I would definitely like to take a closer look at him.[/Obligatory "I'll get to it later" comment]
That post looks bad to me. It looks an awful lot like either a chainsaw defense of Elli-scum or an opportunistic attack on/cheap jab at Anon. The fact that he unvoted his RVS before it looks like he was trying way too hard to say, "Hey guys, I'm serious about this," as if he had a stronger motive in bringing it up than just to make a comment about someone's play.Ani wrote:unvote Because that vote was for lolz during the RVS.
I think Anon is looking for an easy target.
Yeah, this.Hudo wrote:What makes Elli an easy target? I see a legitimate case on him, even if it was easy to find.
@Lowell
When you come back, comment on this? Please?-
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@Lowell
Your comparingapples and orangesteleporters and masons.
I objected to your post on the basis that you were trying to take down Kairyuu's plan. My statement that we shouldn't direct the teleporter is when we were considering a completely different plan, where directing the teleporter would most likely be suboptimal.
I'm hot and bothered about this because your lack of comment on it clearly means you hate me.
I agree with Jahudo on pops. Pops is currently obv-scum.-
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[Frustrated with computer for eating two partially written posts]
You're at least the second person to say this (I think Elli said it earlier), but I don't get it. What makes Jack so obv-town?fgwdasflwefjalskdfjaelf wrote:On another (semi-related) note, I don't like the Jack wagon. He's obv town.
Talking to/scumhunting in the other universe - goodDP wrote:Because clearly we are not keeping up with the partner universes.
FOS Myk
Not getting someone's point - bad, but null
FoSing someone for a point as stupid as this - bad and probably scummy
FoSing someone in the other universe for a point as stupid as this - very bad and definitely scummy
It's as if he just wants to look like he's scumhunting and picked something directed at our universe to respond to. The fact that he nitpicked on something this small is really a stretch, regardless of whether or not he believes it. In addition, I find it scummy that by attacking Myk over this, he's practically trying to broadcast that he's reading the other thread, which just sounds like a ploy to look good.
Justifying what he did without being asked. He realized it looked bad. Also note that what he gave was a justification (a rationalization even) and not a valid reason.DP wrote:Ok, so fossing the other universe is a bit much. But if you take into account the chance that he could end up here in this one ...
Unvoting with a disclaimer. That always sets off an alarm with me. "I'm unvoting you, but you're still very scummy!" makes it very easy to hop right back on with a vote if a bandwagon forms on that person.Jack wrote:This makes sense, unvote:fhqwngads
Although I do find "we need to do this" statements are things scum like to say.
Not really game relevant, but it's bothering me. C is scummiest, hands down.Ani wrote:A first. If B is using something obvious (like your case) then B, because he's not actually scumhunting.
Anywayz,vote: DocPotter. Join the bandwagon!-
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DeathRowKitty sheFrogshe
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Posting this in All...2 of My Games
Sick today. Keeping up with the thread, but I don't really feel like posting. I'll have plenty of extra time to post tomorrow if I feel up to it. If I don't post tomorrow, consider this an announcement of LA.
@DP
I would never have guessed you were Annachie. Just wondering, did you intentionally change your playstyle?-
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I'm a firm believer in meta on players for which it applies. Normally, I would see DP's actions as scummy, but this isn't the meta I remember from Annachie-scum. Speaking of which, I'll get around to checking on that within the next hour.
Also, I'm a bit erratic with my vote from time to time. Live with it.-
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Brief meta complete. I'm now pretty confident on DP-town.
Annachie-scum was MUCH more submissive than DP is in this game. He was much more careful not to do anything that would create waves. The one time he did, he even posted in the QT (we were neighbors in that game) to say he might have gone too far.
He's been much more reckless this game. He was hardcore and relentless on Kairyuu for bringing up plans he felt were suboptimal, whereas he was more cautious going after Elli for suggesting a policy lynch in the other game.
Basically, I don't think we're dealing with Annachie-scum. (Besides, Annachie-scum was possibly female, whereas DocPotter is obv-male. Clearly not the same person.)-
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DeathRowKitty sheFrogshe
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Annachie was never labelled as a female. He was male, but everyone called him "she".
Either way though, how submissive or aggressive you are isn't something that gets changed easily unless you're specifically trying to screw with your meta, since it's very much a subconscious feature of your play. I highly doubt that DP was so intent on changing his meta that he intentionally decided to play more aggressively. It's just not that easy.-
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Lowell wrote: @jahudo- After reading 301 I actually think it's more likely DRK is trying to buddy up to DP-town than distancing from DP-scum. Something about that post makes it look like he's trying hard to win an ally and set himself up as indespensible if we end up lynching doc.
unvote, vote drk
Lowell, err, no, Jack, explain why you think my post sounds that way.Jack wrote:I'll go along with that.
unvote:dp, vote:drk
@Lowell
After Jack's given his reasons, I want to hear yours.
Also, has either of you actually bothered to read Annachie's scum meta?
Just a heads up, I have a fairly busy couple of days right now. I might be able to post tonight, but if not, I won't be able to until tomorrow evening.-
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This. Anyone voting Elmo hasn't been reading his posts. There's just no case on him besides lurking, which is true of half the game at this point.Also, these elmo votes are about the biggest bag of fail I've seen since Doc Potter.
There is, however, a nice case on Jack. I'll even take a page out of his book and make a case Jack-style:
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DeathRowKitty sheFrogshe
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Hello and welcome to this edition of Who's Da Scum! We have 3 lovely contestants today! And heeeeeeeeeeeeeeere they are!
Our first contestant votes haphazardly and without reason and he's STILL waiting for one to really stick. He disapproves of optimal town strategyand likes getting stuck in the rain. From Scummy McScummerville, Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack!
Our second contestant hails from a faraway universe in a dragon-guarded castle. Don't worry about that though; he thinks you're town! Please welcome Ellllllliiiiiiiiiiiiiii!
Our third contestant is a real active lurker. He's 95.7% noise, 4.3% half-hearted scumhunting, Aniiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!-
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DeathRowKitty
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Apparently that's only the 8th time someone's messed up my gender. I could have sworn it was more.Jack wrote: death row kittie: not much to swing me either way. Nothing jumps out. I'll putherhim in the townie pile.
Well, if you're going to be fair about this, another one of my posts contained a bit of reasoning. Plus, you claimed scum. What other reasoning could anyone possibly need???Jack wrote: I'm not going to claim with 6 votes on me day 2, when half of them are random bs votes.-
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How often have I see someone claim scum day 2? I'm not sure I'd seen it happen until today honestly.Jack wrote: This is like starbuck 2.0. Why don't you tell me how I misrepresented mykonian? How many confessions have you seen on day 2 with everything up in the air? At worst you could say I was wifoming.
Also, I don't get the WIFOM part.-
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My scum predictions from day 2
Sooo, ummmmm, yea. Apparently one of them was off. One dead, one gone, one left.Vote: animorpherv1
We can has ani wagon?-
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Well, Ani hasn't gotten any better since I made that post. Seriously, iso him. Very few of his posts have any relevance to scumhunting. Here's aNico wrote: DRK seems off to me. He is using his scumlist from yesterday to vote for Ani, but only because one of the people on his list was Elli. I didn't get why he put someone in the other universe on his scumlist yesterday, but now it just seems opportunistic, as it allows him to get by with only being suspicious of two people that matter instead of three. I could even see see his scumlist falling into the "1 in 3" rule, where Elli is the scum but since he's hidden in the other universe DRK can avoid attacking him outright.summaryscummary of those that do:- He calls Anon out on going after an easy target in Elli. His reasoning for this was very weak and looks to me like a chainsaw defense of Elli.
- He jumped on the DP wagon because it was the largest.
- He threatened to hammer Jack, but never actually joined the wagon. Reeks of scum not wanting to be part of the mislynch wagon.
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- If you agree your attack on Anon was weak, then why did you continue to go after him for several posts?
- "Im fine with either lynch, and ATM, I think DP has more votes."
- Yes you were
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I don't see how that's any better than Ani. His attacks (actually, attack, singular) was horrible and he admits he only went with it because he had nothing better (a.k.a. he's done no actual scumhunting, while trying to appear to be scumhunting). His defense is pretty meh and in iso, he just looks like he's active lurking. [Note: I haven't actually iso'd fhnoiwehfaew. I just can't see it being any worse based on what I've seen of Ani.]Lowell wrote: All of which is just an excuse to unvote, vote fhqw, which I've felt the urge to do for awhile now. His condescending defense posts are weak, he's put nothing into any of his attacks (all against basically easy or lurking targets), and in ISO he reads even worse.
@Ani
Okay, here's what I don't get: you make a post in which you threaten to hammer Jack if he doesn't claim in his next post. Jack is actively posting at the time. You then ignore this game, post elsewhere on the site, and leave?
You had no intention to hammer Jack. Your threat to hammer was completely empty. This just adds more weight to my accusation that you were trying to distance from a townie lynch. You threatened to hammer to look a part of it and then left to avoid being on the mislynch wagon. Scum.-
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Oh, wow, fawfawefasdklfa is at L-1. Right now, all I have on him is a weak gut scum read on him, whereas we have solid reasoning on ani. Then again, a weak anything read is more than I have on some people in this game.
Roughly my order of "I want to see this person lynched"
animorpherv1
fhqwhads
Kise
Nicodemus
Starbuck
Anon
FeFiFoFum
Lowell
Plum (if she's scum, she's likely to be dealt with by one of the scum teams)
Also, irrelevant, but there's a typo in the following rule:The Rules wrote: 7. There will be a quicktime for the dead.-
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He active lurked through all of day 1 and made one admittedly weak case that he really tried to stretch. Towards the end of day 1, he voted DP because he had the most votes of the main wagons and towards the end of day 2, he stayed off of the Jack mislynch wagon entirely, except for an empty threat to hammer.-
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Vote: ani. Definitely the best lynch candidate we have.
Ffff is quickly rising in scumminess though. Lowell's WIFOM aside, ffff has no joined two wagons with no reasoning and seems to have barely read the game, if at all. Bandwagoning people that look like they might be lynched without knowing what's going on=bad.
Starbuck did rise a notch or two in scumminess for her hammer, but I'm actually going to invoke Lowell's WIFOM here. Knowing fjaslkghasf would flip town, I would expect scum to at least make a hammer look good. Too scummy to look scummy, I guess? Meh, it was still scummy, but whatever.-
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66. Sounds like mafia teleporter to me. Because myko's sortie is really good actually. Emphaszing the good outcome of a power when it can be a mafia power= preparing confusion about teleport?+++Plus #66 was a really bad post I don't see either vanilla or town teleport making.
I'm almost not sure if you're serious about this one. Myko's idea was horrible and following it would be almost a definite loss.DRK, Post 66 wrote:
I disagree. 12-3 mountanous would favor mafia. Even with the mason, it's probably balaned in favor of mafia. The teleporter is meant to be a positive pro-town role. Not teleporting means we lose whatever advantage it was meant to give the town.mykonian wrote:extra information supporting this strategy:
if there is no teleportation, we have 4 mislynches. Added to this that there are 2 players that can be confirmed, the game seems to be balanced in favor of town: meaning that the mod expects something to work against the town. The mafia has no real powerrole that could cause this, so it must be the mechanic itself!
I don't support the no teleporting idea.
128. Probing other for sure footing? Do not like. +++
Once again, I don't get it.DRK, Post 128 wrote:@Elli
Do you find Maelyn scummmy? I don't really see anything she's done as worse than a null tell.
-Link because it's too long to quote without ruining the asthetics of this post-Once again, I don't get it.186. Do not like. Changing angle when attracting attention is scummy or lazy town. +++
Also,
...what?46. Changing of avatar. Noise post. +-
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1. But it was wrong. Just because it was pro-town motivated, I shouldn't have been arguing it?SL wrote: 1. Regardless of strategy, Myko's 'sortie' is protown motivated to me.
2. His plan is not as dramatically bad for town as you make it sounds like. Playing this game like a vanilla game is 3 mafia against 12 townies, with two confirmable townie. It is balanced, it would just be a vanilla game, less fun maybe, but playable. You are also ignoring the fact that playing this game with no teleportation allows for one confirmed townie any day.
At any rate, my point here is not to discuss strategy. I wouldn't like to play without teleportations, it would feel cheap. My point here is to highlight the fact that, out of nowhere, you felt the need (in the underlined paragraph) to point out that the teleportation is meant to give an advantage to town, without explaining why or thinking it through. This is what I call emphasizing the good outcome of a power when it can be a mafia power, and used to the mafia's advantage.
I think this is an unlikely position from either vanilla townie or town teleporter. It may be closer to a town teleporter's stance, wanting to play his role, but I have a better guess as to the town teleporter's identity.
2. It's still balanced in favor of mafia. Probabilities in Vanilla Setups. Whether or not those numbers are right, they're a good start. 12-3 vanilla is definitely not balanced. 10+mason+replacable confirmed townie-3 is closer, but what if the mason gets killed? It's bound to happen eventually. Just adding a confirmed townie into an unbalanced setup doesn't automatically balance it and it doesn't balance this setup.
Do you disagree the teleporter is a useful pro-town role? If you had been posting the same conclusion I did, what would you have said instead?
Haylen always does stuff like that early in the game and I seem to recall hearing that Maemuki does too. Maelyn wasn't scummy. I said so in my post. How was I "multiply[ing] cases and tension" with that post?SL wrote:At that point in time, Maelyn's position was weak due to repeated lurking and noise post, I consider your #128 as typical mafia approach to trying to multiply cases and tension without seeming to participate in it. And in this doing, trying to garner more possible mislynch target.
SL wrote: In post 186, what you are doing is changing your vote when it is starting to attract attention (from Jahudo if I remember correctly). This is either really lazy town who update their positions only when called to attention, or mafia's appeasing tactic. I think it is the later, because you were quite careful to keep activity up in meantime.
Unless you want to argue that I was lying about being in an odd state of mind, I don't see what you're trying to say here.I, Post 186 wrote:Originally, he seemed to me to be really trying to force the issue, moreso than simply trying to argue an alternative. TBH, I'd forgotten my vote was on him (I've been in an odd state of mind the past couple of days).
Unvote. I no longer think he's scum. His more recent posts have been coming off to me as him genuinely arguing for an alternative he thinks is better.
Socializing is scummy? I figured it was time I changed my avatar anyway.SL wrote:At that point in time, early in the game, your post was not only noise, it was super noisy due non scum-hunting motivated socializing. And changing your avatar because other people don't like is just bleh to me.
I only had around 5 minutes to respond to everything, so I picked the things with + signs next to them.SL wrote:Question here: why are you not replying to my remarks in chronological order? I trust that you are aware that early comments are bound to be less serious and damning argument.
Aaaand I'm out of time.-
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DeathRowKitty sheFrogshe
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Re: balance
Since you mentioned it, I just ran a simulation on my calculator. I assumed the following:
- Lynches are completely random. Well, except for rules two and three.
- If the mason was going to be the lynch, the mason claimed and someone else was lynched.
- I was too lazy to program in two people who would claim and not be lynched, so I excluded the possibility of the teleporter being considered as the day's lynch at all. Considering optimal play for scum may or may not be to wait to kill the teleporter until the night before lylo anyway, this shouldn't be too big of a deal.
- An outed mason was automatically NKed that same night.
- Scum have no teleporter. I was too lazy to program one in.
I brought it up because it was true. The teleporter helps town. That's why his plan was bad. Why should I not have brought that up?SL wrote:To your last question which is beside the point: my point is I think it is unlikely town would have wanted to put emphasis on the potentially good outcome of a power when it can be a mafia power.
You see, you still fail to provide an explanation on why you think teleportation is intrinsically good for the town, yet you are quick to defend the use of that power. And that is why I think you are likely the mafia teleporter.
I didn't explain why it was good because I thought it was obvious...the net effect of the teleporters is to trade scummy players that neither universe has to worry about and that could split up the scum teams and force them into competition.
Meh, the meta part was just part of my disorganized response to your question (a.k.a. something I should have put at the end of my response to you instead of the beginning). Maelyn's play was null even without any meta knowledge.SL wrote: Ok let assume your question was motivated by previous meta knowledge. Then let me ask you, did you expect Elli to have the same meta knowledge than you did? If so please evidence it by links.
Fine, if you want to call it lazy, then yes, I was lazy. I lost track of a lot of players around then and not just in this game. Yes, this includes the player I was voting.SL wrote:Are you saying that you were a lazy town at that point in time? Forgetting your vote on someone like that?
Sorry for talking about nonsense with people I'd recently been in games with? I laughed your argument off because it makes no sense.SL wrote:Yes, non scumhunting related socializing in early game is very scummy. As is laughing off arguments. Even more so.
That doesn't answer the question on why you did not answer my comments in chronological order.
SL wrote:
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