ZOMBIES! - Zombies take over for the win!!!

[CryMeARiver]

Vote: Starbuck

I thought I just killed you? lol, same sides this time hopefully!

[CryMeARiver]

Prod Received: I'm here, just been busy as of late, will do a read through

[CryMeARiver]

Crap, I keep forgetting about this game and looks like a lot has gone on without me
I will attempt to stay in the game!

Just in case, I have a vote on someone

Unvote

[CryMeARiver]

Friday is my mafiascum day this week, expect much then

[CryMeARiver]

McGriddle = quite scummy

ISO 1 and 2:

votes without a reason just to blend in so he didn't get in any trouble for not voting anyone...Blending with town

ISO 7 and 8:

Admits only reading a few of the pages and FoS's the person (yos) who calls him out on it and asks him why he hasn't been reading

ISO 9:

Admits to be lazy town (which I haven't been lazy, I just haven't been on the site as a whole due to real life) - He's had about a day and a half with 10 posts yet he isn't reading the pages?

ISO 12, 13, 14, 16:

Posts without content and containing few words-asked if his laziness is a tactic and responds "could be" etc...

ISO 15:

This post is very revealing: "I see no reason to look back in the game as I have a good idea already who my 2 scum are." hmm...So you don't use the info given 2 you because you already know who the scum is? through your role pm? why don't u just out your buddies now...at least we know there are two of them

ISO 17 and 20:

9 completed games, 18 total, and "every game you've been in has had 2 scum"...find that hard to believe...did you not even read the rules? YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT A CULT GAME IS? Your in the game and you don't know the setup?

ISO 19

"wouldn't that be pro-town that I didn't know how many scum there were in this game?"...fishing for how to be pro-town...HINT: you don't need to ACT protown if you are indeed town...nor should you have to ask "wasn't that post I made protown?"...Hate this post

ISO 23

Says his top 2 scum candidates: kmd and morph...up to this point, the only person he has even ATTEMPTED to scumhunt at was Yos for "putting words in his mouth"...this comes out of nowhere with no reasoning at all

ISO 29

Votes Rex for saying his post was "modkillable"...Rex wasn't even on his "definite 2 scum" list and said nothing unwarranted...No it doesn't seem like he WANTS you modkilled, he is just saying that it is modkillable when based on the rules, it is

Then like sevenish more posts with no content and few words...also tried to attempt to play noob card earlier...

Vote: McGriddle

[CryMeARiver]

Mcgriddle: Respond to my ISO read of you and claim

[CryMeARiver]

CMAR, that's blatant rolefishing right there. McG is far from being a certain lynch.

HE IS AT L1
I AM NOT ROLEFISHING

[CryMeARiver]

CMAR, that's blatant rolefishing right there. McG is far from being a certain lynch.

HE IS AT L1
I AM NOT ROLEFISHING

OH...mixed it up with another game where it takes 7...my bad!

[CryMeARiver]

Holla!

I probably can't read this until tomorrow, but I will be getting up to speed shortly. Feel free to give me a tl;dr to help me along the way if you can think of anything important I need ot know.

My ISO 4 and the fact that tate refuses to answer questions and admits that he is being unhelpful to town...also, please understand the setup of the game before you start reading

[CryMeARiver]

Wait, it doesn't look like there's anything to understand about the setup...

Some people didn't and still don't understand that it is a cult setup

[CryMeARiver]

I'm surprised at how good people think my case was
I usually do huge mounds of text and figured I'd try something different, guess I'll stick with it!

[CryMeARiver]

I'm surprised at how good people think my case was

Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying anything about how good I think your case is.

awww...that makes me sad and embarrassed...

[CryMeARiver]

awww...that makes me sad and embarrassed...

At least you're making cases. *cough* bv310 *cough*

Is it that you don't agree with the case or should I build my cases differently?

[CryMeARiver]

On CryMeaRiver

Mcgriddle: Respond to my ISO read of you and claim

Umm, wtf? I don't even think the guy is anywhere near L-1.

What's with the blatant pressure and rolefishing?

Im pretty sure I already stated that I mixed it up with a game (Behind the Scenes Mafia) where it took 7 to lynch...

[CryMeARiver]

Antitownishness=not helpful

Vote: Tate

[CryMeARiver]

CMAR, you misspelled the word scummy.

Vote: Tate

Lol

[CryMeARiver]

Nah, I said the "reasoning given so far," referring to the fact that too many of the votes on there (bv310, CMAR and ani) were not backed up by good reasoning.

I'll provide reasoning later today if I must, but it's kinda ridiculous that you are defending him after his scumminess yesterday...

Reasons you are defending Tate

Lack of reasoning provided by people voted for him

Reasons you are voting iLord

...(see above?)

[CryMeARiver]

Since Tate did not necessarily seem as scummy as much as working against the town, I would like to get a handle on his replacement...

Unvote

[CryMeARiver]

Just checked and I have been prodded: Still gonna be V/LA till Sunday night at the earliest

[CryMeARiver]

It is true that you have played with me before, but my activity goes up on later days. Anyone who's played with me knows that. And just a question, what is Will doing that will make you group him with me? And who the hell is Will?

Reads on all the players in next post or ask for replacement. I don't care how far you are in the thread, just any type of content will suffice.

Still waiting for this before my next real analysis.

[CryMeARiver]

Mod: CryMeARiver was in another game that I am in and it was informed there that he is not allowed to be in any games due to him being banned by mith here

Wrong sir, I was not allowed to JOIN any other games from my probation. I was in this game long before my probation was put in place.

[CryMeARiver]

Mod: CryMeARiver was in another game that I am in and it was informed there that he is not allowed to be in any games due to him being banned by mith here

Wrong sir, I was not allowed to JOIN any other games from my probation. I was in this game long before my probation was put in place.

This is very true. I received the PM from mith myself. CMAR is allowed to continue in the games he's in but not to sign up for new game.

vote count

Albert R (1) xRECKONERx
bv310 (3) ODDin, Wolframnhart, iLord
iLord (1) manho
CoolDog (1) Starbuck
Yos2 (1) elvis_knits

manho (6) Pie_is_good, animorpherv1, bv310, CooLDoG, Diamondilium, Nobody Special

McSuave (2) Yosarian2, Albert B. Rampage

not voting:

evilsnail
MrSuave
CryMeARiver

With 18 players it takes 10 to lynch
Deadline is Sunday March 28th, 10:00am PST

Thank you sir

[CryMeARiver]

farside's a ma'am.

Thank ya ma'm

[CryMeARiver]

farside's a ma'am.

Thank ya ma'm

Mod: CryMeARiver was in another game that I am in and it was informed there that he is not allowed to be in any games due to him being banned by mith here

Wrong sir

, I was not allowed to JOIN any other games from my probation. I was in this game long before my probation was put in place.

Starbuck is also a she.

Yeah, but she is pissing me off

[CryMeARiver]

I don't want to wait until march 28th let's lynch manho.

Unvote, vote manjo

You might want to edit this as the vote may not count

[CryMeARiver]

Well I had thought I gave some thoughts in my last post. It was that I'm not sure about the manho lynch. My reason was his scummy way of playing. I was in a game with him before and I think I even got him lynched and was wrong. I get the se feeling from him in this game. I don't think this a good idea ATM. But that's just my thinking.

Please read the end of iLord's ISO 104

[CryMeARiver]

I largely don't agree with a manho lynch and would rather lynch someone like bv as pointed out by someone else. Scum in my opinion would not claim VT when at L2 as this does not save them. I'll read through manho's ISO again, but at first glance I did not find much there and I don't think I have yet to see a case in one place on him.

[CryMeARiver]

I still don't see it. He refers to an offsite game, all he talks about is Tate's reference to the role PM, and he doesn't scumhunt ouside of that. These things don't ring "scum" in my head as much as "lazy town" (gee, where have I heard that before? )

[CryMeARiver]

wolf and CMAR are, like,

really

boring.

Ugh, I hate that you call me out like this. I highly doubt the replacement will be caught up by the deadline anyway and I highly doubt that two people disagreeing with a wagon is likely to reverse a wagon. Therefore, though I don't completely agree with it, manhoe has largely tunneled tate the entire game and I do find it hard to believe that he can't provide a link for the offsite game he has spoken of. While it will anger a few that the hammer is coming this quick, the game is starting to lull off and town could use the information. Therefore, call me M C Hammer and start hammer time, because:

Vote: manho

[CryMeARiver]

The worst thing that can happen is that we wait until deadline to hammer and the replacement doesn't post an opinion.
Patience is a virtue.

Wow, wish I had seen these last two posts before my hammer

[CryMeARiver]

Seriously? What could I have done? The wagon was turning around no matter what I did. All that could have happened was the day would have lasted a bit longer, but the result would have been the same.
Also, I think it goes that a power role dies if attempted to be recruited. Therefore, only vanilla's can be recruited.

[CryMeARiver]

Where was that stated?

I didn't say it was in the rules, it was hypothetical. I clearly stated "I think". This is based off of the fact that power roles have died both nights.

[CryMeARiver]

Wait what? I remember that somewhere in this thread.

Too lazy to check though.

That's what I thought too. But I can't find it, so I thought maybe I had just made it up and used it as the truth in my head.

[CryMeARiver]

xReckonerx and Albert B. Rampage are __________ :
A) Married
B) Scum bussing each other very well
C) Going to get modkilled
D) All of the above

[CryMeARiver]

Definitely "D" all of the above

[CryMeARiver]

1) I really don't understand where I "scumslipped". The multiple choice question was clearly a joke. If you are referring to the power role/townie being recruited speculation:

I require at least one game played on MS if you want to sign up. I expect players to be active in the game. This is a cult game which means players become zombies or if they are a power role they will die.

2) The new turn-ups are very interesting and will result in me ISOing both evilsnail and Reck. It is clear that either of these will be our lynch for the day.

[CryMeARiver]

Evil was the one who was white knighting ABR yesterday. I am definitely feeling a link between evil and ABR now. This feels like an elaborate gambit.

white knighting?

http://encyclopediadramatica.com/White_Knighting
Could someone explain this "gambit" to me though? I'm not seeing it

[CryMeARiver]

There's just one thing that's bothering me about evilsnail. If he tracked Reckoner night 1, why didn't he try to get Reckoner lynched Day 2?

That was also my first thought when I saw his results, care to explain snail?

[CryMeARiver]

Nvm, wasn't the Wiki, but my point is that animo knows what "white knighting" is. He wanted to know where it occurred, not what it was.

Oh, lol, well so do I

[CryMeARiver]

@ABR: I never claimed to be a Tracker. I have a different type of ability.
@ODDin: This is the only useful info I have.

Also, I really think we need to be lynching xReck today. The reason I didn't keep this information to myself was that we're in a cult game and it pays to lynch scum as early as possible.

That was not the question. The question was why did you wait until now to tell us the information if you had the results yesterday?

[CryMeARiver]

I never said I had the results yesterday either. I'll elaborate, if necessary, but I'd prefer to say as little as possible about the details of my ability.

Unless you have knowledge that outting the specifics of your role would hurt either town or your role, I suggest you tell us.

[CryMeARiver]

evil, you didn't have to reveal your special ability yesterday in order to push for reck's lynch. You could push for his lynch legitimately, by bringing up arguments. Yet you didn't.

I believe that he is saying he just received the results last night?

[CryMeARiver]

Okay, fine. My ability allows me to determine who a player targetted the night before. That's why I don't have a useful N1 result and why I only found today that xReck targetted Kmd N2.

Does this ability have a flavor name?

[CryMeARiver]

Okay, fine. My ability allows me to determine who a player targetted the night before. That's why I don't have a useful N1 result and why I only found today that xReck targetted Kmd N2.

So you still have no idea whether or not he is scum, only who he targeted.

That's not good enough to lynch him for me.



Reck, who'd you target N2?

He already said that he targeted bv N1 and Oddin N2, so yes, this would make him scum indeed.

Vote: xReckx

[CryMeARiver]

evil, you didn't have to reveal your special ability yesterday in order to push for reck's lynch. You could push for his lynch legitimately, by bringing up arguments. Yet you didn't.

Yeah, I considered this, but, if convincing to lead to a lynch, it makes me a good NK target anyway. If it's not convincing, which is pretty likely, it risks scum targetting me because I'd make a good conversion (I'm on to one of them). So I waited for a bit, to see if a wagon would naturally develop on xReck. That way, I could have pushed for it relatively surreptitiously. But it didn't.

Wait a minute. You said you just got the results yesterday. Contradiction here?

[CryMeARiver]

evil, you didn't have to reveal your special ability yesterday in order to push for reck's lynch. You could push for his lynch legitimately, by bringing up arguments. Yet you didn't.

Yeah, I considered this, but, if convincing to lead to a lynch, it makes me a good NK target anyway. If it's not convincing, which is pretty likely, it risks scum targetting me because I'd make a good conversion (I'm on to one of them). So I waited for a bit, to see if a wagon would naturally develop on xReck. That way, I could have pushed for it relatively surreptitiously. But it didn't.

Wait a minute. You said you just got the results

yesterday

. Contradiction here?

EBWOP: I mean last night

[CryMeARiver]

Am I the only one who noticed that before CMAR?

Evisnails says:

So I waited for a bit, to see if a wagon would naturally develop on xReck. That way, I could have pushed for it relatively surreptitiously. But it didn't.

This is in reference to Oddin saying:

evil, you didn't have to reveal your special ability yesterday in order to push for reck's lynch.

Evil seems to be trying to explain why he didn't push a wagon on Reck yesterday, but he didn't have his results till last night according to him.

[CryMeARiver]

I'd make a good conversion (I'm on to one of them).

You just claimed yourself as a VT, but with an ability

called

Sheriff. ORLY?

I don't see where he claims VT here...

[CryMeARiver]

I'd make a good conversion (I'm on to one of them).

You just claimed yourself as a VT, but with an ability

called

Sheriff. ORLY?

I don't see where he claims VT here...

Because only Vanillas get converted to Zombies.

It seems that he was trying to breadcrumb that he was on to one of them, not that he was actually

able

to be converted.

[CryMeARiver]

Unvote

O.K. one claimed tracker and the other claimed cop. We should let this blow over and make the scum make the decision for us. If they don't NK one of them, we'll gain more info and when we do lynch one of them we will have a lot of information about the game.

If you had two cops counter claim each other in a game where there's only one cop, would you keep them both alive?

Yes, of course. We have plenty of time before endgame. One of them will turn up dead tonight and tomorrow we just lynch the other.

If they are both alive, they will have more info for us from the investigative abilities they perform at night.

I think this is the safest plan. But if I wanted to risk it, I'd go for Reckoner today and see what comes out of it.

This seems to be great discussion, though I don't necessarily agree with it. Opinions?

[CryMeARiver]

This conversation is one huge ninja fest.

I think I deserve the ninja award

[CryMeARiver]

I don't like it either. Scum will claim blocked, or an inno result on scum/guilty on town.

You think scum have RB's this game?

I don't know what you're talking about on the second part.

We do have to remember, this is a cult game, not a mafia game. Therefore, roles may be pure goon/gf roles. Also, I disagree with ani. Scum will not claim their mafia buddies innocent at risk of outting them, but there is much WIFOM here. I do not like the fact that Reck called for all of two votes off of bv though.

[CryMeARiver]

That's not what I meant (wow, you really are getting me wrong today)

I meant that scum will claim to be blocked, although not really blocked, so they didn't get a result.

Scum can't claim they got RB'd because it's extremely unlikely for the cult to have one.

Dang, first time I've been ninja'd

[CryMeARiver]

I swear to God there's something screwy going on here. I targeted ODDin last night,

not

Kmd. Actually, wait, what the fuck? Kmd was fucking

dead

by last night, what the hell is evilsnail talking about? Obviously a faked result, and obviously bullshit because "Oh hey I just got my results today lol".

Should've investigated you last night like I considered.

Vote: evilsnail

No, he said his result was from N1.

[CryMeARiver]

reck, now you're just playing it dumb. First of all, we're talking about N1, where you (supposedly) targeted bv.
Second, evilsnail obviously means you were scum, and thus you targeted kmd in order to kill him.

Also, explain why you investigated me.

Seriously? Back to back ninjas? lol

[CryMeARiver]

Okay, fine. My ability allows me to determine who a player targetted the night before. That's why I don't have a useful N1 result and why

I only found today that xReck targetted Kmd N2.

This is what evil originally said.



NIGHT 2, NOT NIGHT 1.

This was clearly read to me as "I only found out on N2 that Reck targetted Kmd"

[CryMeARiver]

I may be reading this wrong, but it feels to me that evil isn't really the Sheriff.

Again, this was clearly read to me as "I only found out on N2 that Reck targetted Kmd". Also, that is a deep gambit to risk killing one player. The only reason I can find for doing this instead of just waiting to kill him tonight would be that they feared he had a guilty result on one of thier buddies. But even this hardly makes sense.

[CryMeARiver]

1) @ Evilsnail: If it doesn't go without saying, I would not say whom you targeted last night as it may result in something bad (a NK) happening.
2) With the death of a deputy, it's mighty convenient for xReckx to claim cop. It would be a safe claim for mafia because there is a 100% chance of a cop in this setup now and because it would out the real cop for mafia to later kill. If xReckx is lying, I am curious as to what you would think of the real cop counterclaiming xReckx. And while it may sound like a softclaim, I am indeed not a cop.

[CryMeARiver]

WHOA! L-1?!?

Unvote

Whatever happened to the idea of Evilsnail suicide bombing? xReckx could still be cop technically speaking and I think this lynch is coming rather quickly.

[CryMeARiver]

If Reck flips town, strong FoS: CMAR. Smells like distancing.

The ES-is-suicide-bombing idea was mine and I abandoned it because it just isn't as likely as ES telling the truth. If Reck flips town, I will work on the theory that ES is a recruit.

Yes, it comes off as distancing myself from it. But no, I just really think we are going through this waaay too fast. Heck, I don't even think 3 or 4 players have talked today.

[CryMeARiver]

Uh, wolf, don't be retarded. I just copied the mod's list of active players and removed myself, ODDin, bv, and evilsnail.

So you took evilsnail out, the person saying he knows you are scum because you targetted KMD? Yea that makes no sense to me at all, clear buddying attempt.

No, it makes perfect sense. His and a few others idea the entire time has been that killing someone besides the investigative claims is the smart idea because that way town gets maximum information.

[CryMeARiver]

wolf, I must side with reck here, you should be paying more attention. He was behind ABR's plan of lynching neither himself nor evil today and waiting for tomorrow instead to see what happened during the night. His list was of people up to lynch today with this in mind.

I think I'm winning the ninja war

[CryMeARiver]

Aaand ODDin sniped me. Good God.

Whoa! I sniped both of you

[CryMeARiver]

After briefly looking through a Reck ISO, I notice a few things:
1) xReckx never even mentions bv310. Take this for what you will, but it makes me think that he wanted to not talk about wagoning bv310 for lurking because he knew he was innocent.
2) xReckx attacks ODDin a few times throughout D2. This provides reason enough to investigate him that night.
3) xReckx truly seems to passionately defend himself after being called guilty by evilsnail. While this may just be appeal to emotion... [WIFOM]
4) If you think about it, xReckx's claim makes WAY more sense than evilsnail's claim. The night actions of "sheriff" seem rather ridiculous and made up to me.

I highly disagree with a xReckx lynch as I tend to actually believe him more. But I also believe we should target someone else with our lynch today rather than evilsnail, xReckx, ODDin, or bv310.

[CryMeARiver]

After briefly looking through a Reck ISO, I notice a few things:
1) xReckx never even mentions bv310. Take this for what you will, but it makes me think that he wanted to not talk about wagoning bv310 for lurking because he knew he was innocent.
2) xReckx attacks ODDin a few times throughout D2. This provides reason enough to investigate him that night.
3) xReckx truly seems to passionately defend himself after being called guilty by evilsnail. While this may just be appeal to emotion... [WIFOM]
4) If you think about it, xReckx's claim makes WAY more sense than evilsnail's claim. The night actions of "sheriff" seem rather ridiculous and made up to me.

I highly disagree with a xReckx lynch as I tend to actually believe him more. But I also believe we should target someone else with our lynch today rather than evilsnail, xReckx, ODDin, or bv310.

You're analyzing the content of his posts, but you're not factoring motive.

Do you believe that the cult successfully recruited someone?

That's another good point. No I don't believe that the cult successfully recruited someone. They either attacked Yos last night or attempted to recruit whoever Yos was protecting.

[CryMeARiver]

What's your opinion about the talk of a potential vig?

This seems rather ridiculous as the two players that died did not really ping anyone's scumdar I don't believe. If a vig did happen to take out two of our power roles, I would hope he would claim now to take out any confusion. But if there is a

smart

vig (or no vig), he should not claim yet. Though I do request he shoots some of the players like MrSuave.

[CryMeARiver]

There's almost no way a vig wouldn't have gone for the many lurkers, rather than shoot at kmd and Yos2.

That's another good point. No I don't believe that the cult successfully recruited someone. They either attacked Yos last night or attempted to recruit whoever Yos was protecting.

So you believe that ES is a Zombie Lord trying to get towncopRECK lynched?

No, this also seems rather unlikely. We seem to agree that there is between 1-2, 3 at the most zombie lords. If we also agree that the zombie lords have killed both nights without the interference of a vig, then it seems rather stupid to risk one of your zombie lords to kill one other person. Therefore, I believe that either something interfered with evilsnail's results or that there is a possible SK who has done the killings and evilsnail is in fact a recruit. There is also the possibility of xReckx lying, but I still find that unlikely.

replying to a prod, I'll post more when I get back from work.

How many prods is that already? Surely we can get MrSuave replaced if there are any willing replacements. It's blatantly obvious that he's not giving any content and just posting to avoid getting replaced.

I seriously ask for you guys to look through an ISO of him. It's rather hilarious actually. I don't know about a replacement though since it is 70+ seven pages on D2. Unless we can get an active replacement, I ask he either be lynched, or, if there is a vig, shoot him tonight

[CryMeARiver]

-All the cool kids are voting for CMAR.
-If you vote for CMAR, you will be cool too.
-Therefore you should vote for CMAR.

Wait, so I'm cool now?

Vote: CMAR

JK lol

Unvote

[CryMeARiver]

No, this also seems rather unlikely. We seem to agree that there is between 1-2, 3 at the most zombie lords. If we also agree that the zombie lords have killed both nights without the interference of a vig, then it seems rather stupid to risk one of your zombie lords to kill one other person. Therefore, I believe that either something interfered with evilsnail's results or that there is a possible SK who has done the killings and evilsnail is in fact a recruit. There is also the possibility of xReckx lying, but I still find that unlikely.

1) You believe the behavioral evidence is strong enough to justify a "silent" redirector ("silent" as in his target is not notified of being redirected)? Don't redirectors and the such typically notify their target? And I can hardly imagine what type of framer would've been necessary to fool evilsnail's ability.

2) You posted not a few posts before that you didn't believe that the cult has successfully recruited. Now you're introducing the possibility of an SK permitting the cult to have successfully done so. Why the change of mind?

1) No, those are just possible thoughts because I still can't decide about xReckx. They are slim chances, but still possible.
2) That post was in regard to a vig because there was no way a vig would kill to rather protown players. It is still very possible that an SK would kill protown players and the scumteam is still recruiting. Therefore, evilsnail could be a recruit [ends WIFOM argument]
Mostly because I am unsure who is town and who is scum, I still think we should vote someone other than xReckx, evilsnail, bv310, and ODDin

[CryMeARiver]

The Rampage Address, 3rd March 2010

We have half the population resolute in lynching Reckoner, and the other half too scared to risk lynching a claimed cop with questionable usefulness. It seems that this latter half should come up with

a better candidate for lynching

, whose alignment isn't influenced by Reckoner's flip. When this half comes to the conclusion that they can't come to an agreement because of their inherent dissident nature, we will lynch Reckoner and subsequently obtain the pertinent information essential to find the zombie lords post-reck flip. Do not make this task more difficult than it is.

I'd like to

Elect: MrSuave

. I don't know who else realizes it, but it is definitely April 3rd, not March 3rd

Vote: MrSuave

[CryMeARiver]

Sly, CMAR and Reck are the only two lynchable players today. You need to choose one (which I presume will be CMAR, given that you've been a vocal defender of Reck thusfar).

Don't get ahead of yourself. Of course any wagon could shift in a matter of seconds. Course I must say as well that if it comes down to this, I will definitely have my vote on xReckx. Today, with the Reck-evilsnail cross, has been very rapid and I think we should come to a decision slowly and use the week we have. Earlier we almost killed Reck without even considering anything else (I believe he was at L1). Reck should not be killed because of his anger issues or what he suggested about the whole modkill thing, rather he should be killed if found SCUMMY.
I highly disagree with any wagon on me and I fail to see any logic behind it. I have been a lot more active than MrSuave and a few other lurkers and I have definitely provided a lot more food for thought and analysis. Other than that I don't see why I would be voted. MrSuave is a lot better wagon at this point in the game.

Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 10:00 am Post subject: 16 Reply with quote
replying to a prod, I'll post more when I get back from work.

Did not realize that some people work 24 hour shifts.

[CryMeARiver]

2) That post was in regard to a vig because there was no way a vig would kill to rather protown players. It is still very possible that an SK would kill protown players and the scumteam is still recruiting. Therefore, evilsnail could be a recruit [ends WIFOM argument]
Mostly because I am unsure who is town and who is scum, I still think we should vote someone other than xReckx, evilsnail, bv310, and ODDin

That post could not be in response to Starbuck did not introduce that topic until #1827. You posted "That's another good point. No I don't believe that the cult successfully recruited someone. They either attacked Yos last night or attempted to recruit whoever Yos was protecting." in #1826.

There's something fishy here.

Unvote, Vote: CMAR

CMAR - this?

Truth be told, I clealy don't know what the case is am I'm not quite sure what I even believe happened yesterday. All I for sure know is that I am not a good lynch canidate and I. Don't think reck is either, but if this is the only way to lynch possible scum today, then it must be done:

Vote: xReckx[\b]
PS I'm on my droid and its hard to tag on here

[CryMeARiver]

CMAR needs to not lurk till deadline and answer my point.

Seriously? I'm on sprimg break and at the beach. Maybe you should instead attack some of the actual lurkers like bv and mr suave...

[CryMeARiver]

2) That post was in regard to a vig because there was no way a vig would kill to rather protown players. It is still very possible that an SK would kill protown players and the scumteam is still recruiting. Therefore, evilsnail could be a recruit [ends WIFOM argument]
Mostly because I am unsure who is town and who is scum, I still think we should vote someone other than xReckx, evilsnail, bv310, and ODDin

That post could not be in response to Starbuck did not introduce that topic until #1827. You posted "That's another good point. No I don't believe that the cult successfully recruited someone. They either attacked Yos last night or attempted to recruit whoever Yos was protecting." in #1826.

There's something fishy here.

Unvote, Vote: CMAR

CMAR - this?

Truth be told, I clealy don't know what the case is am I'm not quite sure what I even believe happened yesterday. All I for sure know is that I am not a good lynch canidate and I. Don't think reck is either, but if this is the only way to lynch possible scum today, then it must be done:

Vote: xReckx[\b]
PS I'm on my droid and its hard to tag on here

This

[CryMeARiver]

On CryMeARiver

Reck should not be killed because of his anger issues or what he suggested about the whole modkill thing, rather he should be killed if found SCUMMY.

QFT on this.

Thank you

I highly disagree with any wagon on me and I fail to see any logic behind it. I have been a lot more active than MrSuave and a few other lurkers and I have definitely provided a lot more food for thought and analysis. Other than that I don't see why I would be voted. MrSuave is a lot better wagon at this point in the game.

Of course you would say the above about yourself. If you don't disagree with a wagon on you, then you are playing against your win con.


You don't feel Reck is scum, but you are voting for him? WTF. If you were pro-town, your vote would be on the person that you suspect the most.

1. I don't believe that anyone saw the reason behind those posts.
2. That is bullshit. I had my vote on MrSuave, and I still do technically, for the longest time. Apparently everyone thinks that voting either me or xReckx is the best choice at this point. So, the only reason I attempted (tag fail) to move my vote on to Reck is because I feel that lynching possible scum/possible cop is better than lynching what I know to be definite town.

Maybe you should instead attack some of the actual lurkers like bv and mr suave...

On spring break or not, maybe YOU should stop deflecting and answer the questions posed to you.

Maybe you should read that again. I answered his question and within the same minute he replied telling me to answer it because he failed to see that I already had. The above was telling him to calm down because he should be assured that I will answer it, but it will be slower since I am on Spring Break. In other words, READ THE THREAD before you ATTACK SOMEONE.

I would also not be against a MrSuave lynch, just to be rid of the distraction for later on. Especially since he's so vehemently against contributing.

I do believe you are the first person to finally address a MrSuave lynch after I've mentioned it quite a few times. Other opinions????

I have scumhunted, despite me posting some fun posts and some defensive posts. The fact is that I have been keeping up with the game and my strategy changes each game based on the setup, the rules, and my role.

[CryMeARiver]

Wait, CMAR, did you see this?:

I'll break it down:

Me, Post #1825: Do you believe the cult successfully recruited someone?
You, Post #1826: No
Starbuck, Post #1827: What do you think about a vig?
You, Post #1831: Not likely.
Me, Post #1832: You think that that ZombieLordevilsnail is trying to suicide against townRECK?
You, Post #1833: No, he must be a recruit.
Me, Post #1836: You said likely no recruit before. What gives?
You, Post #1842: I meant it in regard to a vig.

If you look above, you'll see that the topic of a vig was brought up, after you said you didn't believe the cult successfully recruited. My question is what changed your mind?

Yes, I must have missed this one: I think there is only one thing that could have changed my mind and that is the suggestion of an SK. When I said I didn't think they recruited the first time, I don't think an SK ran across my mind. At that point I think I was only thinking of the fact that they could recruit and kill.

[CryMeARiver]

Yes, I must have missed this one: I think there is only one thing that could have changed my mind and that is the suggestion of an SK. When I said I didn't think they recruited the first time, I don't think an SK ran across my mind. At that point I think I was only thinking of the fact that they could recruit and kill.

That's what I had thought - and that's why I take issue with this. This is not a townie mindset that you're using. A town player would look at the evidence and draw a conclusion. What you're doing here is the complete opposite - you first assumed that you wanted to argue that RECK was town, then after I explained why that's unlikely, you scrambled together arguments (Such as the SK one that you didn't consider before) to support your conclusion.

You did not change my mindset. I still think that Reck is possibly town as the evidence throughout the game goes well with his investigations. I scrambled together no arguments. When people questioned me and suggested new possibilities, I responded to them.

[CryMeARiver]

You think Reck is possibly town, but your vote is STILL on him.

My vote is on MrSuave, you fail

[CryMeARiver]

CMAR (5) animorpherv1, xRECKONERx, Pie_is_good, iLord, Starbuck
Recknor (6) evilsnail, MrSuave , elvis_knits, Albert B. Rampage, spyrex, Grimmy
ABR (1) SlySly

MrSuave (1) CryMeARiver

Not voting:

ODDin
Wolframnhart
bv310

Day 3 deadline is April 9th, 10:30am PST
With 16 alive it will take 9 to lynch

Received Morph's note and I have no issue with Clank posting.

My vote has yet to change due to a tag fail on xReckx. I never voted Pie.

[CryMeARiver]

Oh, wait. I totally just mistook Oddin's post for yours. My bad.

Accordingly, Fos: Oddin. Now would you like to vote for someone who actually stands to get lynched today?

Yeah, that was a bit confusing with the whole "@CMAR" thing. Anyone has a chance of being lynched today.
@ animorpherv1, xRECKONERx, Pie_is_good, Starbuck: Are you only on this bandwagon because you think it's the only one besides Reck that can work today or are you going to actually give me a chance to defend myself?

[CryMeARiver]

Oh, wait. I totally just mistook Oddin's post for yours. My bad.

Accordingly, Fos: Oddin. Now would you like to vote for someone who actually stands to get lynched today?

Yeah, that was a bit confusing with the whole "@CMAR" thing. Anyone has a chance of being lynched today.
@ animorpherv1, xRECKONERx, Pie_is_good, Starbuck: Are you only on this bandwagon because you think it's the only one besides Reck that can work today or are you going to actually give me a chance to defend myself?

It's the only one that actually makes sense.

Your reason is the worst of all

ITT CMAR is scumslips vote:CMAR

By saying D, he agrees that they are both scum. The only way to know 100% is to be scumbuddies with them.

He is referring to my joke:

xReckonerx and Albert B. Rampage are __________ :
A) Married
B) Scum bussing each other very well
C) Going to get modkilled
D) All of the above

Definitely "D" all of the above

[CryMeARiver]

Oh, wait. I totally just mistook Oddin's post for yours. My bad.

Accordingly, Fos: Oddin. Now would you like to vote for someone who actually stands to get lynched today?

Yeah, that was a bit confusing with the whole "@CMAR" thing. Anyone has a chance of being lynched today.
@ animorpherv1, xRECKONERx, Pie_is_good, Starbuck: Are you only on this bandwagon because you think it's the only one besides Reck that can work today or are you going to actually give me a chance to defend myself?

It's the only one that actually makes sense.

Your reason is the worst of all

ITT CMAR is scumslips vote:CMAR

By saying D, he agrees that they are both scum. The only way to know 100% is to be scumbuddies with them.

He is referring to my joke:

xReckonerx and Albert B. Rampage are __________ :
A) Married
B) Scum bussing each other very well
C) Going to get modkilled
D) All of the above

Definitely "D" all of the above

EBWOP

[CryMeARiver]

You have had plenty of time to defend yourself. So wtf are you talking about with us giving you a chance?

Defend myself from what?! iLord is the only one who has provided anything against me and I have defended myself from that. You all are just bwing me not because you find me scummy, but because you feel any other bandwagon besides xReckx is better. You found Pie scummy, but you vote me because:

If I have to choose between a claimed cop and someone else, I'll take someone else.

Unvote
Vote: CMAR

The game is based on lynching who we think are scum, not killing anyone just to avoid killing someone else.

[CryMeARiver]

@CMAR: You're right, and that's why you haven't seen me ask for claims arbitrarily (

I

haven't claimed PR/not PR, for example). The point I am making is that it's simply much less dangerous to out our PRs than usual, so if outing PRs gives us some sort of useful information we shouldn't hesitate to do so.

I'm not saying you were asking for a massclaim. I'm just saying that you discussed outing PRs as if it's a given fact that the mafia will kill revealed PRs, and that this is good for town, in this post, for instance. You seem to disregard the fact that outing a PR only gives scum the necessary info, meaning that if we actually do WANT our PRs to get nightkilled, then outing them is a good way to ensure they won't be NKed.

Either way, the main reason I'm voting you is tate's actions, which were very scummy, and your actions didn't give that player spot any town tells. Even if your actions didn't give your player spot a slightest towntell, I'd still be willing to vote you for you.

Accordingly, Fos: Oddin. Now would you like to vote for someone who actually stands to get lynched today?

I'm willing to switch for CMAR come deadline if nobody else appears as a real alternative to reck. I just think that 5 days before deadline is too early to say "there's nothing that can be done about it". You're closing the day way too early, there's still time. So, I'm voting for you. Why are you in such a hurry?

I agree with this as well and I think that most of us had forgotten about tate-Pie. I would be willing to vote Pie or MrSuave. The last part is really pissing me off because if I get ninja'd right before the deadline without a chance to claim or give a last defense I'm going to be pissed. Also what's pissing me off is Starbuck.

Starbuck's reason's for voting me

:arrow:

Most of his posts are fluff and spam. He rarely (if ever) contributes anything to scumhunting. To me, it feels like he's just posting so it looks like he's contributing and nothing else.

I highly disagree with this. I feel that I have contributed more than many of the players. His main reason for voting me: I have lurked and haven't contributed
:arrow:

His obsession with the lurkers also does bother me, especially after I read him in iso. He is the biggest active lurker here.

Wait. You are voting me because I am an "active lurker". Yet I am bad because I feel we should lynch MrSuave (aka MrLurker)? HUGE CONTRADICTION
:arrow:

On spring break or not, maybe YOU should stop deflecting and answer the questions posed to you.

I never deflected anything. I fully answered his question, he just did not see it. And you failed to read at all.

:arrow:

You don't feel Reck is scum, but you are voting for him? WTF. If you were pro-town, your vote would be on the person that you suspect the most.

My vote is on the person I suspect the most (MrSuave) and it was never on xReckx.
:arrow: [quote="Starbuck contradicting himself in the same post #2]I would also not be against a MrSuave lynch, just to be rid of the distraction for later on. Especially since he's so vehemently against contributing.[/quote]
Wow. I get chewed out for focusing on him. But you have no problem voting him? Seriously?

[CryMeARiver]

1. You obviously haven't read yourself in iso to see the amount of fluff that you have posted.

I have posted a few jokes and some things that would be considered fluff, but unlike some I have actually been useful and have started and been part of discussion. The fact that you want to lynch me for this reason, yet are mad that I want to lynch a lurker myself is stupid and contradictory.

2. How is that a huge contradiction when I've already said that I'd support a MrSuave lynch? You are "bad" (your word not mine) because you have no other suspects other than MrSuave.

It is contradictory for the reason above. I have other suspects as well, MrSuave and Pie are just the top 2.

3. You've been deflecting and taking forever to answer questions. If you are pro-town, there's no need for this.

1. No I haven't been deflecting or taking forever to answer questions. I have answered everything asked of me that I know of.
2. In the few hours between the question asked to me and the time I answer it, I have a life that I maintain. I suggest you get the same. Yet I still answer questions.

4. I do have no problem voting MrSuave, but I have other suspects besides the person who hasn't been here all game.

Such as? Also, provide reasoning for these suspects, not fluff that is not true like the above crap.

[CryMeARiver]

MrSuave has been targeted for breaking rule 10. I found bv310 not as bad but on warning that he could be next.

What happens to him?

[CryMeARiver]

Yes, I must have missed this one: I think there is only one thing that could have changed my mind and that is the suggestion of an SK. When I said I didn't think they recruited the first time, I don't think an SK ran across my mind. At that point I think I was only thinking of the fact that they could recruit and kill.

That's what I had thought - and that's why I take issue with this. This is not a townie mindset that you're using. A town player would look at the evidence and draw a conclusion. What you're doing here is the complete opposite - you first assumed that you wanted to argue that RECK was town, then after I explained why that's unlikely, you scrambled together arguments (Such as the SK one that you didn't consider before) to support your conclusion.

You did not change my mindset. I still think that Reck is possibly town as the evidence throughout the game goes well with his investigations. I scrambled together no arguments. When people questioned me and suggested new possibilities, I responded to them.

I'm not saying your mindset - I'm saying that you came up with a conclusion first, and then looked for arguments to support your conclusion. You were the one to introduce the possibility of an SK, not anyone else so don't try and blame it on others.

Maybe you weren't as certain about me as you tried to make it look.

That's admirable.

Pie wagon sucks, and no to massclaim.

So, when tomorrow comes around and both of them are alive and we get another innocent we get to do this again - with another cult more likely than not.

I'm totally stoked.

The cult's probably getting a recruit tonight regardless of who we lynch. I can assure you that we can find enough votes to lynch RECK tomorrow.

At this point, I can't decide whether to lynch CMAR or RECK. Up until CMAR's recent posts, I was almost definitely leaning towards RECK, but CMAR's not doing so hot right now under pressure. Farside's taking action on MrSuave so there's no need to do anything there, and I anticipate that bv may follow a similar route. pie may be a little eager, but he's likely correct in that there's likely not going to be enough support for a counterwagon unless people really think CMAR is town. Between CMAR and RECk, I can say that I'd be happy whichever way.

I believe I have done relatively well since I haven't looked up Starbuck's IP address and murdered him for stupidity. I seriously have defended myself against everything I have seen. I am relatively active, I have made cases against people, I have defended everything against me, and I have done nothing relatively scummy, unless not being sure of what happened with the whole xReckx-Evilsnail thing is considered scummy. I have no idea what else to do. Heck, I've even breadcrumbed the biggest reason I shouldn't be lynched, yet no one caught it.

[CryMeARiver]

Can I get a TLDR on why we haven't lynched reckoner?

We're lynching him tomorrow. Gives us more info and has no significant drawback.

More info if he's town... but what are the chances of that?

Look... he's a zombielord for crying out loud. There seems to be speculation that there is more than once zombielord out there... but we really don't know what we're dealing with and who has the power to recruit and whatnot. In a cult game, where the fuckers multiply, we need to lynch scum ASAP.

What are the possibilities where reck is town?
1)ES is scum
2)Scum busdriver

If ES is scum, let's find out now so that we know to lynch him tomorrow.

And I think a scum busdriver is extremely unlikely. I mean... zombie cult recruiter busdriver?? WTF. Probably not.

So let's lynch reckoner and dance on his grave.

I am slowly being convinced into an xReckx lynch. If elvis_knits turns zombie cult recruiter busdriver, I will laugh out loud. Then I will find him IP address and murder him

[CryMeARiver]

I believe I have done relatively well since I haven't looked up Starbuck's IP address and murdered him for stupidity. I seriously have defended myself against everything I have seen. I am relatively active, I have made cases against people, I have defended everything against me, and I have done nothing relatively scummy, unless not being sure of what happened with the whole xReckx-Evilsnail thing is considered scummy. I have no idea what else to do. Heck, I've even breadcrumbed the biggest reason I shouldn't be lynched, yet no one caught it.

None of this is remotely relevant, except for maybe the breacrumbing part, which I urge to you to spit out.

My point is that you came up with a conclusion, and then drew arguments together to try and support it, and not vice versa

, not that you're lurking or not contributing.

I was referring to Starbuck with the lurker part. I still don't understand that part. I first made arguments to why I thought xReckx is town because his investigations made sense. Then I made an argument about why I thought the cult had not recruited, but then I realized I hadn't thought of the possibility of an SK, so I included that. At the moment, I am slowly realizing that xReckx may have been scum who realized that he needed a big claim to save his ass and realized that bv310 and ODDin made sense as fake investigations. I still think that, especially with post restrictions, MrSuave would be the better lynch. He is a liability to the town and no one seems to actually be scumhunting per say.

[CryMeARiver]

wolf playing up another avenue? GET OUT OF TOWN.

Can you post content or at least address the current situation please? Thanks

[CryMeARiver]

Really?

Really?

No. I have never, ever made any of my stances on the current situation made clear even in the tiniest amount.

I like this guy.

I really have nothing to say until we get a CMAR claim.

No. I think it's ridiculous. I'm not "flailing" as I am positive I am right. I provided and pushed on McGriddle, I have started discussion with the entire xReckx-ES ordeal, and I have provided my honest opinion on the fact that either MrSuave, Pie, and now Spyrex should be lynched (Diamond was just as useless before him) before xReckx, ES, or me.

[CryMeARiver]

You're not being voted for lurking, stop posting your resume. I originally voted you as a Reck alternative, and now I'm voting you for responding terribly to pressure.

I was referring to Starbuck asking me where I've been useful. So yet, I am being voted for "lurking" and posting "fluff", thank you very much. iLord, that's ridiculous. If you think that Reck is scum, but you are unsure of me just because I am "tightening up" you should vote scum.

[CryMeARiver]

Pie: I'm voting you for X.
CMAR: NO YOU'RE NOT!!!

WOW, CAN YOU NOT READ?
Pie: I'm not voting you for X.
CMAR: I didn't say YOU were, I said Starbuck was.

[CryMeARiver]

I find it funny that he's all wrapped up about my vote on him, but no one else's.

I have defended myself against iLord and everyone else is voting me because I am "the only alternative to a xReckx lynch" which is absolutely ridiculous. MrSuave is a far better alternative.

[CryMeARiver]

And how about showing us where you dropped that breadcrumb? That is one question that I am referring to you that you DEFINITELY deflected.

This needs to be answered.

It is being deflected for a reason and I don't feel that needs to be answered at the moment at all. Despite me being rather active, I have not been as active as some people (iLord and E_K come to mind) for a reason. As everyone else does, I change strategy based on the setup and my specific role in each game.

@Starbuck: That's a load of crap. You yourself have said that you would lynch MrSuave as an alternative and anyone who doesn't see why he should be lynched has not been paying attention at all. He has been the biggest lurker of the game, has made unfulfilled promises for information, and now has a post restriction.

[CryMeARiver]

If you weren't prepared to show us your breadcrumb, why did you bring it up?

Yes, I said I wouldn't mind a MrSuave lynch. Just to be rid of the distraction. But we have deadline in what? 3 days?

I brought it up because I expected someone to find it.
Three people are voting me because they think I'm the only alternative to an xReckx lynch. If you/iLord shifted there, I don't think they'd have a problem shifting there.

[CryMeARiver]

@SpyreX and like-minded: You keep talking as though there's some huge payoff to lynching a ZL today. As I understand it, our working theory is that there are 2 or more ZLs on the same team, all with recruiting powers. This means that it doesn't matter when we lynch the first ZL - it matters when we lynch the last one.

Don't get me wrong - I think Reck is likely a ZL. But why do you keep saying "it's worth voting Reck simply because he has a decent chance of flipping Lord, and we cannot let him survive the night?"

I don't know if it's just me, but this post completely hit me the wrong way. What town motive is there behind this post? I don't see any. This makes me think of a clear xReckx-Pie scum team.

Unvote; Vote: Pie

I will vote xReckx if nothing happens.

So you breadcrumbed just to look cute? Either you want the people to know the information or you don't.

The feel I'm getting is that CMARscum genuinely believes that he has not screwed up, and is therefore frustrated by people "getting lucky" and accusing him for stupid reasons. He's right that he's been more active than some, and I have a healthy respect for fluff posts. That said, I don't like his overreaction, and in my experience "What-About-Him" defenses are typically orchestrated by scum (as CMAR's doing with his "Please guys? Can we lynch Suave? Please? Huh? Can we?" schitck).

Actually, I breadcrumbed mostly so either of the two would happen:
1) Someone would find it and try to get people off of me without outright saying the breadcrumb.
2) I could refer to it if I was ever about to be lynched.

No, I don't believe I screwed up. The first vote on me was from animorph that no one really understood since it was clearly a joke. Pie then votes me because there was already one vote on me and he is all of a sudden

on board with ABR's plan of lynching neither. Also willing to vote CoolDog if anyone is up for that.

Came across these amusingly:

I definitely don't want a CMAR lynch either.

Unvote: CMAR, Vote: Animorpherv

I Iso'd him. It feels like he's being cautious, and he first my earlier criteria of "didn't think the Yos wagon was going anywhere."

For the record, I'd still rather lynch CoolDog, and I'm about equally willing to lynch CMAR.

Now all I can do is wait for someone other than me and Sly to grow an opinion.

Next on me is xReckx with an astounding:

I think a good alternative lynch would be CMAR. Let's Vote: CMAR. Everyone! All together now!

Anyway, while I do absolutely feel I am the wrong lynch, I definitely don't think you got lucky. I think you got very unlucky. This is pure ridiculousness.

[CryMeARiver]

Check the sig, I will be rather gone till Sunday, but I should be able to pop in should I need to claim or vote xReckx. I will be able to briefly monitor it, but don't expect a lot.

[CryMeARiver]

Ugh, so I am checking in. Don't have time to read everything, but I noticed several people calling for me to claim. I am doctor. I protect a person from becoming infected that night. Of course I would act the way I did with the importance of my role. I breadcrumbed this in one of my posts by spelling out DOCTER with the first letter in each sentence. I also have the knowledge that I am not a weak doctor, but a strong doctor.

Unvote; Vote: xReckx

[CryMeARiver]

It really sucks doing this on a small phone on vacation. my role pm actually says that i will heal players. i questioned farside aboutthis and he sid that ifthe protected player is attacked by zombies that night, the targeted player will not be attacked. thereforei do not actuall y heal the player. this is where things go wrong. night 1 i completely forgot about the game. night 2, farside ended the night early while i was sending in my night action. it did not go thru, but he repaid me by assuring me that i was a strong doctor. no, it never used infected in the role pm, but i still though reck was real and tried to indicate this. i also lurked some because i did not wanna stick out and be a goid nightkill. farside, im on the worst phone, so can i please ask if the tag doesnt work, my vote still goes thru

unvote; vote: pie

[CryMeARiver]

Bah! OUT ALL POWER ROLES!!!!!! LOL GO TOWN



MMMM!!!

[CryMeARiver]

Why do I have the feeling that I would have been able to give town a lot better of a chance if I hadn't been the target of an RL? Seriously, I was chosen because everyone was like "Oh, we can't lynch one of Evil or Reck cuz we don't know which was a liar (which was started by Albert [scum] which was a very smart play)" and then someone was like "Well CMAR already has one vote on him (which was a random vote from ani who proceeded to go absent after voting me) so he's the only choice we have before the deadline." Hence why I was forced to claim. Wasn't good play exactly on my part (considering me being doctor and not wanting a lot of attention, it wasn't terrible until I started flailing to get them off me) but that was pretty ridiculous.
Thanks Farside! GREAT GAME!

[CryMeARiver]

Also, I wanted to SCREAM when people were suspecting SB. Did everyone just forget about him saying he vigged Sly and it didn't go thru. And then Evil said it didn't go thru because he had roleblocked him that night. He should have been confirmed from the point Evil flipped town.

[CryMeARiver]

I kinda think it also hurt the town that the doc didn't/wasn't able to protect anyone the first two game nights.

I wouldn't have been on KMD N1, and I don't think I would have been on Yos N2 either. Still, N2 WAS NOT my fault.

[CryMeARiver]

Hey i get that things happen, no worries mate.

Yeah, N1 I wasn't paying attention - my bad
N2, the mod ended the night early. That was NOT MY FAULT and the mod admitted to it which is the reason he withheld the info to me that I was not a weak doc, but a normal doc.