Left 4 Dead Mafia - Day 6?

[jmj3000]

/confirm

[jmj3000]

Hey everyone, I am on my phone, which makes rereading hard. When I get home and on computer, I will weigh in.

[jmj3000]

Taking a V/LA for a couple of days to sort through some major life changes.

[jmj3000]

Mod: My V/LA will be ending the 13th.

[jmj3000]

Mod: I am ending my V/LA early.

Hey everyone, I am going to read over the past few pages and see what I can find.

[jmj3000]

@bv130: I am still rereading and making notes. My rereads go me reading the wholr topic at a glance, then reading it in detail, then isoing everyone, so it takes me a while.

[jmj3000]

@everyone: I have never been very good at going and pulling information from many pages of info, unless I have something specific to look for. So, ask me questions and I will answer them.

[jmj3000]

@jmj: Who's your top suspect?

I am always suspicious of lurkers, and I realize thats me in effect doing pot calling kettle black. Next, I am suspicious of all the people who speculated about the set-up. That does nothing except help scum by telling them what we do and don't have in town. Now, I'm going to weigh in on a couple of things that everyone else has already passed over.

Concerning DN asking for a sample Town PM:
I find it slightly suspicious that he would ask for a town PM. Its not enough to me to vote him, but it is enough for me to FoS him.

Concerning Charlie and his comment:
That had to be one of the stupidest comments to make. To me, that seems like a huge scum-slip.

I will post more thoughts after I wade through the multiple pages of set-p speculation that stagnated conversation.

[jmj3000]

Hey everyone, just checking in before catching the shuttle downtown to watch the St. Pats parade. I will post more of an analysis later today after I get done watching the parade and spending time downtown. Happy St. Pats Day.

[jmj3000]

@cmar: you can bold on a droid, you just have to manually type in the code. Also, welcome to the game (I'm posting from my g1)

[jmj3000]

@socrates: I haven't voted because I have felt confident enough that anyone is scum to vote: As to my suspects, thats also hard seeing as how we have had 5 replacements and a lot of inactive people, including me, but I would say you, due to starting the game off not by asking questions to us the players, but three posts full of questions to the mod about the set-up. My next suspect is DeathNote due to him asking for that sample PM, then taking far too long to respond to the accusations against him. The third is a toss-up between bv310, Charlie and Dizzy. they all have done things that are scummy, but nothing extremely serious. As I stated at the beginning of the post, I have not felt confident enough in my suspicions on anyone, and I still don't.

[jmj3000]

Accuse me of fencesitting all you want, but as I have stated before in not just this game, but my completed games, I won't vote unless I am 100% confident that the person I am voting for is scum. Does it tend to lead to me having some weird voes that don't go along with the crowd's votes sometimes? Yes. Does it end up with me joining a bandwagon sometimes? Yes. We are 14 pages into the game, I know, but as I stated, with the number of inactives and replacements we have had in this game, I'm not confident in voting anyone yet.

[jmj3000]

You vote without 100% certainty often and repeatedly in Newbie 878. Most obviously in the RVS, but then several times throughout the thread you vote while obviously not being completely sure of it.
You again vote for Zachrulez without 100% certainty in Open 196. You were clearly not 100% certain about this vote because you reread and retracted that vote a very short time later.
Both times you were a Vanilla Townie, and both times you cast votes without complete certainty.

Newbie 878: I was 100% confident in my votes at the time. Every single one of my votes was placed witch 100% confidence based on the evidence that was there at the time. If they provided a sufficient rebuttal of the evidence, then I retracted my vote and went back to who I was 100% sure was scum until endgame. The problem with people reading my meta in that game is that they know everyone's roles at the time and can see more in what was said while I had to go off what I had at the time and my own thought processes.

Open 196: When I placed the vote, I was 100% confident zach was scum based on what I had read up to that point. When I went back the next day after I had slept, I noticed my confidence was based on me misreading what zach had wrote, and I went and removed my vote while admitting my mistake.

Now, while confident and certain are similar, they do not mean the same thing. I was confident in my votes in those games, but I was not certain. There are only three ways to be certain of someone's alignment: be part of the scum team, upon their death, and upon the endgame. I vote with confidence, not certainty, and I am not confident in any of my suspicions at the moment.

[jmj3000]

No, but that was an RVS vote and I don't count those.All my other votes were with 100% confidence. ARe you ever 100% confident that your RVS vote is on scum?

[jmj3000]

@socrates: I haven't voted because I have felt confident enough that anyone is scum to vote:

As to my suspects, thats also hard seeing as how we have had 5 replacements and a lot of inactive people

, including me, but I would say you, due to starting the game off not by asking questions to us the players, but three posts full of questions to the mod about the set-up. My next suspect is DeathNote due to him asking for that sample PM, then taking far too long to respond to the accusations against him. The third is a toss-up between bv310, Charlie and Dizzy. They all have done things that are scummy, but nothing extremely serious. As I stated at the beginning of the post, I have not felt confident enough in my suspicions on anyone, and I still don't.

I am quoting that post and bolding the part that to me is relevant. By now we have had 6 replacements and too many people inactive. I want to know what the replacements think of thier predecessors actions and posts(if thier predecessor did anything or posted anything), I want more people to speak up, I want

information

from more than a handful of players before I go and make cases on anyone. Y'all know my suspects, y'all have the basics of my cases against them, most of the points in my cases against them have already been brought up and discussed by other players, and if I had more to add to those discussions I would. If you think me defending myself is a distraction, then why accuse me?

[jmj3000]

You will get cases from me as soon as the replacements comment on what they think their predecessors were thinking when they were posting.

[jmj3000]

Thank you dramonic. Any other replacements want to give their opinions on what they think their predecessors were thinking?

[jmj3000]

I am asking the replacements, based on their observations of their predecessors posts plus their role pms, what they think their predecessors were thinking. I never said they knew, I merely want their opinions.

[jmj3000]

Because I have some cases that involve the replacements.

[jmj3000]

@fuzzy: I'm not voting because I'm not confident enough in any of my suspicions to put a vote down yet. Also, what do you think Anon was thinking based his posts and your role PM? I want your opinion.

[jmj3000]

Alright DN, why vote almightybob then and not give any reasoning? As you said, deadline is in 3 days. In order to lynch correctly, we need discussion, not votes thrown on with no reasoning behind them. If you have posted a case against almightybob, link to it for us please.

[jmj3000]

I have stated multiple times, the reasons I am not giving any cases is because they have mostly been laid out by other people. Socrates has been pointed out as being scummy multiple times due to the set-up speculation and trying to get an item grabbing order set-up BEFORE Ifrinn had even said anything. I just asked one of my suspects for a case, that person being DN, after they vote without giving a reason, on top of them asking in the thread for a sample pm, in addition to refusing to answer a question from YOU Starbuck and one from Charlie. As for bv, he is quickly climbing my scum ladder due to his continued absence, even though people have posed questions to him and said they were suspicious of him. As for Charlie, he went and goes "I read my post to make sure it didn't sound scummy". Why does a townie need to worry about that. If you look too town, you are suspicious, should your posts should sound just a little scummy. As to Dizzy, when I said I was suspicious of her, that was when I hadn't fully reread the topic. After going back and rereading, I see she has scumhunted, and posted a lot more content, so I am going to remove my suspicion. There, happy Starbuck?

[jmj3000]

Ok DN, you answered my question, now how about answering Starbuck's and Charlie's? Or, if you have already answered them, why don't you link us to the answers? I don't think finding someone acummy for not answering three questions, and basing their vote off of OMGUS reasons when they could go back and add more content to their case is reaching.

[jmj3000]

Mod: Vote count please?

[jmj3000]

Wait, I'm being targeted for something that bv has also done and he gets a free pass? He sits there, gives a case amounting to saying his vote was a pressure vote, then comments that whenever he sees something scummy that DN has done, it's already under discussion, but he doesn't add to said discussion? At least Dizzy has given an excuse for not contributing to discussion, bv hasn't given one. He;s one of my suspects, though admittedly not one of my strongest, but since it seems everyone is giving DN and Socrates a free pass, and seems intent on lynching me, y'all will find some way to make this vote paint me scummier, but

vote: bv

.

[jmj3000]

The difference between me and bv, in my opinion, is that I presented cases using stuff that people were already discussing plus adding some of my own opinions in. bv just flat out hasn't added anything to the discussion, while I did put a little bit of my own opinions. Thats why I find bv scummy and not me.

[jmj3000]

Ok, bv, you need to quit worrying about your activity level and grabbing items and start answering and responding to the accusations against you. Out of the 3 items that have come up so far, you have grabbed for two of them.

I'll try and do a Player-by-player and an iso of someone tomorrow. It's a bit late to start reading now.

Also, what happened to you doing this? You said you were going to do that 2 weeks ago, and it never surfaced. You just seem to be trying to act like you are town. I've got a feeling you are scum grabbing the items so you can destroy them. I, as town, can't let that happen, so I'm going to be that last person to grab for it.

Grab: Dual Pistols

[jmj3000]

Starbuck, have you just not read my latest few posts? I have presented cases and contributed in post 402, post 405, post 417, and post 432. It's not a lot, but it's contributing and scumhunting and pressuring people to answer questions, along with my cases.

[jmj3000]

Starbuck, you are bound and determined to get me lynched, aren't you? I never refused to give cases, I actually gave you cases. Did you just see my long post that had my cases in it and go "Oh, thats just scum-filler, I'm not going to read that."? Here, let me give you the post number where I gave my cases, alright? Post 402 has my cases, and your refusal to acknowledge them is starting to seem very anti-town to me.

Fos: Starbuck

. Also, posts 417, 421, and 432 all have content. I'm not quoting those posts because that will make this post bigger than it needs to be.

[jmj3000]

Mod: can you fix that last URL tag please? Thank you.

[jmj3000]

Gut isn't good enough for me, Furry.

He is refusing to give cases.

He can write paragraphs about how he's not sure and he's not confident, but he's not adding anything to the game.

What's so townie about that?

Nice OMGUS, jmj.

I'm not refusing to acknowledge them.

You didn't post them until you were being pressured by almost everyone playing. Just because you posted them (after stalling for forever) DOES NOT get you off the hook with me.

The bolding is mine. I gave my cases before post 472, but you still said I was refusing to give cases. Not until after I posted references in post 489 did you acknowledge them. I posted cases, it shouldn't matter if I was under pressure or not, they are still valid cases.

[jmj3000]

I'm not going after them because, though they are lurking, they have contributed more than bv has. They all contributed in one way or another (though dramonic's lack of content this long after he replaced is disturbing), while bv hasn't. Therefore, me going after bv.

[jmj3000]

I'm voting bv and not dramonic using my logic because bv has been in this game since the beginning, dramonic just recently replaced in. I don't see any contribution by bv except him just going along with the flow of town and not voicing his own opinions. Also, I'm at L-2, your vote glork is the 8th on me going by the latest vote count.

[jmj3000]

Y'all aren't going to believe the claim, but I'm just a plain survivor. I've stated my suspicions, so if/when y'all lynch me and I come up town, maybe y'all will pay more attention to them.

[jmj3000]

Hello,

jmj3000

!

You are

Jimmy Gibbs, Jr.

,

Survivor

!



You are the best damn stock car racer of all time. You were to appear at a mall with your legendary car, but the outbreak kind of stopped all that.

As a survivor, you have no special abilities... yet. Of course, you have your voice and your vote... but you may also gain special abilities by trying to scoop up some items. Be warned, though... scum may also try to get an item, and if they do, they'll destroy it.

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

Game thread is here: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13603

And I have never played Left 4 Dead one or two extensively, just enough to know the survivor's names and the special zombies, but none of the supporting cast.

[jmj3000]

But has anyone noticed that since his claim, JMJ HAS NOT SHOWN BACK UP.

Let's see, I posted my claim at 9:30 pm on the 29th (its 1:00 am right now). I don't even remember falling asleep that night. Today, I spent as much time as I could with my girlfriend, seeing as I won't get to see her again for a couple of months at least. I got home read over all my threads, which I also did this morning, and checked the game I am modding off-site. I checked from my phone, but I wasn't going to post from there because as I said, I was with my girlfriend for the last time for 2 months. Now, I'm going to go and thoroughly read the thread from my claim on, then I will let y'all know what I think.

[jmj3000]

I didn't know I wasn't going to be around at all yesterday. I didn't even know my girlfriend was leaving until this morning. If I had known, I would have posted.

[jmj3000]

If you want to expand this to another tier we have a quoted PM. If he is scum and it was a fakeclaim, scum just burned one. In some games scum will get fewer then members of the team, so they would have just burned one.

If we work along the same line of this logic, a mass name claim would be beneficial to town, as there is a chance that scum would have to fabricate a claim.

Not an easy task I assure you.

But you're opposed to a mass nameclaim, hm?

On a slightly related note, did anyone notice the completed Portal Mafia game next door? The 3 scum (cores) were all given the same safeclaim (cubes). That's hilarious! But then again it is also sad. But then again it's hilarious!

Regarding jmj3000's claim, I don't trust that racecar driver. He might be infected!

Charlie, how do you know it's hard to fabricate a fake claim? Been trying to do it for yourself? If you're town, there is no need to try and fabricate a claim, so there should be no reason for you to know how hard it is. So Charlie, why do you know how hard or easy it is to fabricate a claim hmm?

unvote, Vote: Charlie

Let's hear some answers.

[jmj3000]

I won't be able to do much until around 3 EST this afternoon due to classes starting up today, but I will try to check in.

[jmj3000]

Alright, I have read over everything that has been posted today, but my brain is too tired to process it all. I'm going to do my homework and take a nap, and when I wake up, if I'm still alive, I will reread and try to process it all.

[jmj3000]

I find the timing of Furry and Socrates moves to Amished irritating. They've not expressed any opinion that Bob is town or any less scummy, in a situation where we're less than 24 hours from a deadline no lynch and they've effectively derailed the Bob wagon that appeared to be town's best chance to get a lynch.

Almost as if they don't want to lynch a scum buddy?

[jmj3000]

Grab: Medkit

Also, I am rereading from the start of day 2, I will post comments on what has happened so far afterwards.

[jmj3000]

And another thing: Whoever is still talking stuff along the lines of "maybe scum destroying items is a night action" please please stop. The correct assumption is scum destroy items AS SOON AS they manage to grab it. I stand by this 100%.

Charlie, how do you know this for a fact? How do YOU know that scum destroy items as soon as they grab them? Also, why are you pushing so hard for a nameclaim when everyone has already showed you how bad it is for town? I found you scummy on D1, and you haven't done anything to dissuade me from that feeling. In fact, you have just heaped more scummy feelings on top of my original ones. You constantly pushing for a nameclaim through 2 game days, even when people have shown you how it would hurt town, constantly specualtiong when it has been shown to you how it will hurt town, you have stated you reread your posts to make sure they don't seem scummy, and general anti-town behaivor.

Vote: Charlie

[jmj3000]

@Amished: You want to show me where the mod says items are destroyed immediately?

[jmj3000]

@Amished: I don't see the mods giving away set-up information like that to just anybody who asks.

[jmj3000]

Nameclaim is bad idea. I'm sure everyone went and researched L4D when they signed up for this game, so I am pretty sure everyone is on equal footing with theme and flavor knowledge.

@Crypto: Who is your strongest scum read?

@DocPotter and DN: Give us some of your insight on what's happened lately.

[jmj3000]

Charlie is one, thatguy is another, both because they seem to want to ignore everyone and continue to say that a nameclaim is a good idea, with minor suspicion on any other nameclaim supporters.

[jmj3000]

Grab: Shotgun

There, that should get discussion flowing again.

[jmj3000]

Vote shotgun furry?

[jmj3000]

Actually thatguy, neither reck nor kise are on, so we won't know who got it until one of them are on. Also, you have no rrom to talk thatguy. Way back on march 30th, you said this:

Hey guys, I've been kind of reading over, and I'll get something up tomorrow, just letting you all know, been busy last couple of days. I'm still around, and I'll be active tomorrow.

Yet that never showed. In fact, you didn't post again until the 5th, when Amished asked you what did you think of him then. The again, on april 8th, you say this:

@Pom

With Amished, I took a look at his ISO, and ones that stuck out to me as actively scum hunting would be, 7, 11, and 14, just to name a few. I'm a little crossed on the subject, because obviously he could either be scumhunting, or just a good scum player.

I looked at post 36 in his ISO quite a few times, trying to understand it better. But he makes a good point, a vig would have most likely killed him.

Now, I didn't get the pistols or destroy them. I went for em, but I wasn't the lucky one. I think that perhaps the pistols might not be a vig, which kind of makes me think Amished just might be town.

I've got more ISOing to do, so I'll have a post on who I think is suspect tomorrow.

Bolded part what I am referring to. Yet again, you never make a post stating your suspicions or anything like that. In fact, you again don't post for 4 days, the next one coming on the 12th, and that is to agree with Charlie that a nameclaim would be a good idea, even after half the players in this game have pointed out why it is a bad idea. Actually, looking at your posts, it seems you have been posting to avoid prodding and trying to look town to blend in.

unvote, Vote: Thatguy

[jmj3000]

Also, if I was to fakeclaim, do you really think I would choose someone who only shows up in game as an infected?

[jmj3000]

Surprise, surprise. DocPotter hasn't picked up his prods yet. Contacting potential replacements now.

Didn't see that crypto?

[jmj3000]

He is more pointing out the fact that you want to lynch me more on my role claim, which was discussed already.

[jmj3000]

DocPotter got replaced crypto. I would like to hear from his replacement though.

[jmj3000]

I do not, under any terms or conditions, support an Izzy lynch today.

Why do you not support an Izzy lynch today Amished?

[jmj3000]

Amished, you have had suspicion on you from day 1. Now, you are saying you don't support a lynch of someone everyone views as scummy. Time for an iso of you.

[jmj3000]

I just skimmed up to the current thing and I followed pretty much everything Dizzy said until this part

Socrates is easy.

There are a number of Socrates posts that indicate he may have had a power role that he turned out to have

, which a scum team could pick up on in order to decide he is a good kill. On the other hand, he was the first person to jump to the Amished wagon that prevented a lynch yesterday, which I assume would have attracted a Vig's attention attention. I know if I had vig powers,

I'd have probably killed Socrates last night.

Ok, this rubs be wrong for two reasons: you'd vig somebody that you thought hinted at a power role; and isn't the Soc kill getting mobbed/mauled or something? That doesn't sound like a vig at all. Kill flavor is one of the easiest things to keep from a video game to a MS game. Hopefully I can catch up more.

You were suspcious if Izzy then, now suddenly you don't want to lynch her? Why is that?

[jmj3000]

I can. If you have two people you think are scum, use the bile to redirect scum-suspect A's actions towards scum-suspect B.

[jmj3000]

Since no one seems to like when I pop in just to grab an item, I am letting this one pass me by.

[jmj3000]

Alright, since you asked nicely.

Grab: Defibrillator

[jmj3000]

Why what Amished?

[jmj3000]

It's actually 66.66% chance that the defibrillator will end up in town hands because I don't think ReaperCharlie's grab counts. I am thinking Starbuck included him in her calculations.

[jmj3000]

After going back, I don't even know why I said anything about ReaperCharlie. Now, as to deathnote: Why are you wanting to influence the decisions of people? If the defibrillator is a doctor protect, we shouldn't be trying to influence whoever gets it. My next post is going to have a partial analysis of your votes in iso.

[jmj3000]

So the item has already be taken then? Why are we not stating who has it?

Sounds like scum trying to figure out who has the item so he knows who to kill.

I am surprised that so many items have been up for grab no day 1. Do you think it will be this way for all days?

Also, I am for claiming who received items the next day phase, or who didn't for that matter.

Again, he advocates outing those who grabbed an item, almost as if he is trying to find targets to kill. He also wonders if the speed of items being dropped is going to stay the same.

Vote: Charlie

all the speculation is making me suspicious.

Votes for charlie with the only reason being charlie's speculation. His only other mention of charlie had been in his ISO 17, where he says he has no opinion of charlie. In that same post, he also says he will post his observations on the rest of the players in the game later, but never does. The only people he posts his observations and feelings on are me, Starbuck, Izzy, and Amished.

Yes, if you used your power... plz claim. I am not surprised at the kills, they were very helpful town.

His ISO 24 post. He wants to out anyone who used their item, knowing that if those people die, their items are gone forever. This is why item claiming in general is bad, and people claiming that they used their items even worse, so why suggest it unless you are looking for a way to handicap town?

For those reasons I have just posted, not to mention his poor excuse for asking the mod for a town role pm (which has already been discussed), I am going to

Vote: Deathnote

.

[jmj3000]

Forgive me if I sound naive, but I'm using the simplest explanation: Amished is scum and killed people who suspected him.

Along the same chain of thought, this also explains why I'm pushing so hard for a nameclaim even though I'm the minority (perhaps the only one, heh). On a slightly related note, the mafia theme game with the Greek letters has ended very recently, and the s

etup revealed that thematic flavor did match scummy roles and power roles.

So... anybody wants to nameclaim? Francis, Zoey, Nick, Ellis, Coach, Rochelle?

Bolding mine. Charlie, that right there shows why a nameclaim is bad.If thematic flavor can fit scummy roles and power roles, why do you want a nameclaim? Could it be to possibly be because you want to out power roles so you know who to kill at night? Continuing to advocate something that is so blatantly anti-town and scummy is scummy in itself, as is supporting this action. Therefore,

vote: Charlie

and

fos: bv

.

[jmj3000]

It was until I made my last post. Something screwed up in the tags after I posted.

[jmj3000]

It won't help catch scum. Scum were more than likely given safeclaims, so a nameclaim will do nothing but hurt town. We have told you why a nameclaim is bad, you have seen how a nameclaim is bad, and yet you keep pushing for one.

Vote: Charlie

Also, thank you for pointing that out, I think that is why my signature got messed up because my laptop touchpad is weird like that.

[jmj3000]

I apologize for my sudden V/LA, I had to make an unexpected trip to see family and had no access to a computer. I will read what's been posted since I lasted posted and post any observations I come up with.

[jmj3000]

I apologize for my sudden V/LA, I had to make an unexpected trip to see family and had no access to a computer. I will read what's been posted since I lasted posted and post any observations I come up with.

[jmj3000]

Uh, Mod, you might wanna check the original post. You are missing over half the rules, namely the mechanic specific rules.

[jmj3000]

Everyone is going "Oh, Dizzy got the pills, Dizzy must be town." Uh, no, she could still be scum who got the pills and destroyed them, and she is trying to set up a mislynch for tomorrow. To quote the mod:

Regarding Socrates' questions:

- The only person who will find out who won the item is the winner. No public announcement will be made.

- In the event a power role picks up an item, they can only use one ability per night.

[/b]- Scum will be told what the item does.[/b]

- There is no limit to the effects items could have.

Bolding done by me. Dizzy's "plan" isn't anywhere near foolproof. SPS wanting us to agree who Dizzy uses the pills on just reeks of scum helping set up a way their partner can get out of trouble. Starbuck, your comment about it being a risky gambit for scum to pull is just covered in WIFOM. Charlie did his little pill grab and nameclaim, which, lo and behold, is one of the 8 main survivors.

So, with SPS offering little scumhunting of his own (seeing as a majority of his case revolves around glork's suspicions), and wanting to just give scum a big glaring target for tonight, along with seeming to give Dizzy an out in case her "recipient" dies during the night, I am going to

unvote

and

vote: SPS

, with a minor

FoS: Dizzy and Charlie

.

[jmj3000]

... I fail at tags apparently.

[jmj3000]

Sure, but only after the loss of at least 3 survivors.

[jmj3000]

I'm assuming worst case scenario, so I should have said after 4 innocents die (1 from a mislynch today,two night kills, then a mislynch tomorrow). Also, I see a potentially fatal (bad choice of words, but I feel that it was theright word) flaw with your plan.

[jmj3000]

You really want it pointed out so scum can ruin your plan?

[jmj3000]

It relates to something Dizzy said about the pills. Go reread her post very carefully, then tell me if you see the fatal flaw in the plan.

[jmj3000]

Also, Dizzy getting lynched after two days isn't a bad worst case scenario? You are willing to sacrifice 6 survivors to catch just one scum SPS? Did you really just say something that scummy?

[jmj3000]

Really now? There are two flaws: One, the one I mentioned, but I still don't feel comfortable flat out saying, and 2) the scum can kill the person you would be giving the pills to. If y'all still can't see it in a little while, then I will go ahead and say it.

[jmj3000]

Anyone else see what I am talking about?

[jmj3000]

Dramonic, why are you sidestepping Dizzy's question?

[jmj3000]

I'm going to give everyone another day to study Dizzy's claim real clsoe, then I am pointing out the fatal flaw in her plan.

[jmj3000]

Yes, it canbe, once everyone realizes how flawed the plan is.

[jmj3000]

Actually, after looking at how much time we have left until deadline, I am going to point out the flaw I have been talking about, using Dizzy's own posts to reinforce it. The first time I noticed the flaw was in post 1319:

Incidently... I noticed upon re-reading the PM in order to ensure I was claiming them correctly that according to the role PM,

they can be used at the start of each day.

I have PMed the mod to see if this means I would have to wait until the next day would start, because if so, it would mean there would be no concern with town losing them if I die tonight.

The next time I noticed the glaring flaw in her plan was in here next post, post 1323:

Ugh, apparently I'm not allowed to use them on myself, but the mod has confirmed that they're

used at the start of the day

, thus ensuring that using my plan, the town gets the back if I die tonight. So really, there's no reason to not attempt to pull of my plan to clear myself.

The next time, and final time I have noticed the flaw, is in post 1354:

Really now? There are two flaws: One, the one I mentioned, but I still don't feel comfortable flat out saying, and 2) the scum can kill the person you would be giving the pills to. If y'all still can't see it in a little while, then I will go ahead and say it.

I don't give them the pills until *after* the night phase

, so if there's a shortlist generated that's long enough to ensure that at least one of them will survive scum night kills, it's fine.

Bolding in all three quotes done by me to emphasize what I have seen. Dizzy is assuming a lot that she is going to survive through the night, especially considering she could screw up a scum mislynch if she is really town and can toughen someone up enough where it takes an extra vote to lynch. All three of those posts say the pills are given after the night phase, so why claim you got them now and not wait until after you have given the pills? Sounds like scum throwing out an item claim to stop a lynch on them.

[jmj3000]

Discuss.

[jmj3000]

She has to survive through the night to give them at the start of the day, correct? The pills make it where it takes an extra vote to lynch someone, which would make it harder for scum to secure that mislynch. Yet, Dizzy doesn't seem too worried about dying tonight.

[jmj3000]

If she is scum, she would be told what that item does, so she could still fakeclaim getting the item if she was scum, and we wouldn't know.

[jmj3000]

You and Dizzy both have claimed to have gotten an item when you both are dangerously close to being lynched. You both have claimed to have delayed actions, and asking us to not lynch y'all today. You both are putting strong hope into surviving the night. SPS, your item claim doesn't make sense flavor wise, because in-game, the horde isn't distracted by a Molotov. Also, bob, while the pills may be an instant use item, many players save them until they are almost dead, then use them to give themselves that extra health to hold them until they find the safe room or a medkit, so I can see the pills as a delayed action.

[jmj3000]

bv, you stated yourself that the bile redirects night actions. We have already established that the pills happen after the night phase. Did you forget how your item works, or did you forget how you claimed it worked?

FoS: bv

[jmj3000]

Right, but unless I'm understanding something wrong, it makes somebody unlynchable. For us to test that: we'd have to get to a lynching majority, so if he's scum; we'd lynch whoever he told us he'd targeted giving his scum faction another day.

This same logic can be applied to the pills. In effect, we could have two potential mislynches led by scum who wanted us to give them a day to "prove their innocence". I just find it kinda odd, just like amished found it odd, that the two items up for grabs today seem to have delayed actions. The dual pistols I can somewhat understand having a delayed action, but the pills and molotov I can not.

[jmj3000]

V/LA until 5/18

[jmj3000]

Alright, I am back from my V/LA. I am going to read over everything from my V/LA post, then post.

[jmj3000]

BAH! Go town.

[jmj3000]

Hey reck, can we get the item pms for the items that weren't used?