Scummers Mafia: Greatest Bash? (Game Over, Scum wins?)

[ortolan]

Vote: Zazier

Zazier who would you kill n0 if you had a kill as town/scum?

[ortolan]

FoS: Papa Zito

for that votecount

[ortolan]

SpyreX is very likely town, so is SensFan, I know he takes silly policy positions like that as town.

FoS: MonkeyMan

also

[ortolan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Mh-Oi1oeoQ

[ortolan]

Why would he have different policy as scum? if it's his policy, and it were different, that'd be a pretty blatant meta.

You're right, he probably doesn't have a different policy as scum. Nevertheless I've seen him do something I know he has a propensity to do as town. If you assume people in this game have a roughly 75% chance of being town right off the bat, and you see a player do something that's not explicitly scummy and is leaning town, then it seems a fair conclusion that they are still "probably" town.

[ortolan]

Orto needs to explain how serious those FoSes were.

Always serious

(You played in The Ocarina of Time mafia from Tarhalindur, right?)

No I didn't, sadly.

Anyway, full claim please Zazie.

There may be bonafide town-motivation behind it, or someone of any alignment could feign being an investigator. But, what I'm thinking here is that mafia-ort' is setting himself up to look like a role with a night action

Talk about going off on a tangent. Anyways, I wouldn't think that would be particularly brilliant play as scum because it would just make one an attractive nk target if there are multiple scum factions, and also put more pressure on one to falsify results/maintain a narrative as to why one is not night-killed later in the game.

Ellipses are scummy, Fingers of Suspicion are scummy (especially in the RVS).

Agreed in Monkey's case but you can't call my FoSes scummy, I had to FoS because I was already voting someone and neither of my FoSes were random.

mask's case on ort is a bit far-stretched, but ort need to explain it sooner or later. i prefer later.

I would normally find this comment extremely scummy (there's not really anything in The Mask's case I can actually respond to, it's all baseless speculation), but something about manho's phrasing gives me the innocent newb vibe. manho might be someone to watch later on if he's an alt.

Just to remind you Zazie, we are waiting for you to claim, under penalty of death.

[ortolan]

Orto, I swear that you and I have been in a game together with manho.

Why do you think that he's an alt?

what game? I couldn't exclude the possibility to be honest, I don't recall every player I've ever played with.

I have good reason to ask Zazie to claim, let's put some pressure on him to claim now shall we? Asking me for a reason is unnecessary and potentially scummy.

[ortolan]

vote Zazier please

his reaction to me asking for a claim is v. scummy so I'm even more sure he's scum

Orto is scum, so I can see why he wants me to claim. What's your reason?

Scum (in a large game) asking for a claim day one really doesn't make any sense from almost any perspective.

REMINDER: Manho is sooooooo Orto's partner.

Where did you get this from, lol?

Zazier and Monkey ftl (for the lynch)

[ortolan]

hasdgfas could well be scum, his posts have largely ignored the most interesting parts of the game

[ortolan]

weeeeee

claim please Zaz

[ortolan]

lol simulpost

I investigated Orto N0 and the result I got is that he is scum.

LOL that's hilarious. Sorry to see you go Zazie Lynch immediately please.

[ortolan]

so Zazier you're essentially claiming that you just happened to investigate the same person to ask you to claim day one; and get a guilty on them*

*without breadcrumbing the guilty in any way

you also haven't explained the flavour for UncertainKitten supposedly having an investigative ability

once we've lynched Zazie, I would definitely look at the following players:

Monkey
hasdgfas (definitely gives me the scum aiming for self preservation rather than town trying to scumhunt vibe)
Papa Zito
possibly Diacria

also helpfully quite a few people have virtually proven themselves town day one so we have a lot to go on tomorrow

[ortolan]

Zazie obviously killed Hoopla which means the scum faction's first victim was Netopalis. Also hammer now please

[ortolan]

Although there is probably at least one scum in ort/Zazie, I still think that Monkey is the right play for today.

Scummy. Just lynch ZazieR please.

[ortolan]

what a complete clusterf***

hold off the votes for a while, I need to claim, funny thing is I'm actually town

I should have checked the sign-up thread where it says this game has some "bastard" elements but really this is going a bit far imo.

[ortolan]

full claim: PokerFace, slightly overeager mason dayvig (with Hoopla, any scum want to fake counterclaim? go right ahead). My ability is "night vigilante". I can shoot as long as Vi did not shoot the previous day. Passive abilities are "trigger-happy" (forced to use night vig on night 0) and "gun sharing" which is the fact I am a mason with Vi (Hoopla).

the "slightly racist" element of Hoopla's role was the fact that Vi hates cops, so she would automatically daykill any claimed cop (seriously, I'm not making this up)

I targetted Zazie n0 (not only because Hoops wanted me to but because I always kill Zazie n0 anyway, independent of my alignment). He didn't die and acted scummy when I put pressure on so I assumed he was an un-nkable SK. n1 I tried to kill hasdgfas because I wanted to take that wildcard out of the game, my other suspects (e.g. MonkeyMan) I saw as decently likely to get lynched (and I'm not all that sold on MonkeyMan anyhow).

So apparently my kill doesn't even work, which makes my role rather crap. If ani tracked me I assume he can confirm the claim (if not the mason part should be enough anyway).

[ortolan]

oh wait, my kill did work. I read that as the fact SpyreX had died, not the role SpyreX. So yes, I killed hasdgfas. Apparently I killed Hoopla night one as well. Uh, ye. Ok then. Either that was scripted by the mod or I got redirected to Hoops night one, I don't know what the case is.

Oh also either Zazie is insane (which makes the vanilla "cop" flip pretty spurious for a supposedly not totally bastardly game) or there is a mafia framer who happened to target me n0 (which would be amazingly fortuitous for the scum), or else somehow my roles investigates as guilty. Personally I'm opting for the first possibility (Zazie is insane), based on Hoopla's "kill all cops" role. If there's only other cop left in the game, chances are they are sane.

Anyway

Vote: MonkeyMan

[ortolan]

btw I would definitely in general read the people who believed my claim and went along with the Zazie wagon unquestioningly as town. Especially manho. I don't like Cuttlefish's behaviour on it, he can slot in with MonkeyMan and Papa Zito.

[ortolan]

vote: orto

read my reply please, I claimed mason with Hoopla, no-one will counterclaim

[ortolan]

In response to me scripting stuff: I do not control anyone's abilities in any way

then there is a redirector/bus driver role in the game.

[ortolan]

I still have no idea why my kill flavour is apparently "sledgehammered" when it clearly says in my role PM that I "shoot someone down". Unless my original theory was right and I don't in fact have a kill.

Anyway, clue up townies.

[ortolan]

The real mason should not counterclaim, this scumbag ortolan is trying to out all our power roles.

That's scummy. No-one will counterclaim, because there is noone to counterclaim.

Why didnt you assume he was an un-nkable mafia godfather? Oh, yer, because you are the mafia.

This response is a bit overdone, hence scummy. It was a fair inference he was an SK, which is why I asked him who he would kill n0. Of course if he was a mafia godfather we'd still be lynching scum so I'm not sure what the problem is.

Why didnt he die then? He wasnt particularly un-nkable.

As I said, I don't know.

But he was sledgehammerd as Hoopla was N1. But wait wasnt Hoopla your mason partner? Did you also kill Hoopla?

If I am the one with kill flavour "sledgehammered" (which doesn't make sense since my role PM says I shoot people) then, yes I did kill Hoopla n0, and hasdgfas n1. I targeted Zazie n0 though, so I'm assuming my kill was redirected.

What hurts me the most is that this insane cop speculation you are pulling out of your ass SHOULD have been analysed yesterday, not today when Zazie is already dead.

Where were you yesterday then? It looked a hell of a lot to me (and others) like Zazie was BS'ing. I admit I would draw the same conclusion if the same turn of events happened in a subsequent game.

Of course ortolan scumbag would first sheep the town to lynch the one with a guilty of him and then worry about insanity after the flip.

This is a misrep of events. I was the first to openly attack Zazie, not the other way round.

Also how the hell are you a dayvig with a night vigilante ability?

I have a night vig ability, Hoopla had a dayvig ability.

Pokerface doesnt even make sense as a vigilante.

You must be joking.

[ortolan]

he's obsessed with vigs and vigging n0, and he does/used to have in his sig "I like to vig n0" IIRC

[ortolan]

I'm not a dayvig, I wrote that wrong. My exact role is "Slightly Overeager Mason Nightvig". No eye for detail and all that. But obviously I kill at night, because that's what I claimed to do.

Why didnt you assume you were redirected day 1 to Neto that has shot as kill flavor instead of hunting Zazie for supposedly "not dying"?

Why would I assume I got redirected at all? If the person you target doesn't die n0 (and isn't an obvious doc protection target) then it's more likely they're unNKable. Think about the probability of a redirector/bus driver role firstly *existing* in the game, and secondly actually targetting the relevant players versus the person you targeted simply having immunity. There's also the other factors that: firstly, I wasn't paying attention to kill flavour at that point, and, secondly, that one mafia and one SK or two mafia with NKs is about right in this sort of game, so when my kill didn't resolve I just assumed the other two kills came from different sources. How likely is it that someone would bus drive Zaz and Netopalis anyhow, if a bus driver even existed to begin with?

[ortolan]

he's obsessed with vigs and vigging n0, and he does/used to have in his sig "I like to vig n0" IIRC

dramonic would have used the obvious vidge joke in the role PM.

lynch this scumbag plz.

He didn't, actually. He also failed to capitalise the "F" in "PokerFace"

[ortolan]

Its funny you would start hunting Zazier for not dying when the first thing you should have thought was that you were redirected to Netopalis.

Uh...no. And you're likely scum for your horribly contrived comment earlier that I should have considered the possibility that Zazier was a mafia godfather. That was obv mafia distancing from itself.

[ortolan]

BTW, if you actually are telling the truth, your Day 1 accusation of Zazie was terribad play. You

do not

act like you have a guilty result on a player when your role information has so many other reasonable explanations (Bulletproof Townie for instance). That play was just awful awful awful.

no, it was good play. that role is horribly unlikely. I would say less than 1%

[ortolan]

I shake my hands of more town-fail, you're just digging your hole deeper

I guess I will have to wait till after the game to find out what the fuck is going on with my kill flavour, with the redirection and with non-reveal of insane cops

[ortolan]

like it or not this would have happened regardless of whether I pressured Zazie at the start of day one, considering Zazie had a guilty on me anyway.

Anyway you definitely shouldn't lynch me based on the fact that no-one will counterclaim the masons thing, and the fact that my play day one wouldn't make sense as scum (unless we had a watcher who saw Zaz target me or something, which is incredibly low probability).

Considering I always target Zazie at the start of the game, it's a fair presumption that he would target me too. Seeing as he's an insane cop and I'm a vig whose kill got redirected (or doesn't exist) it was just an unfortunate role combination.

[ortolan]

What I don't get, orto, is why you weren't informed of your own kill flavor.

Well in my role PM it says I shoot people. Actually maybe I could just ask the mod if the sledgehammered flavour is mine

[ortolan]

vote:ortolan

diescumdie. Also, know we wait untill Hoopla, and MASONS ARE NOT ALWAYS CONFIRMED TOWN MASONS!

dramonic even told us in our quicktopic that his previous game also had a mason-vig pair

[ortolan]

ok dramonic instantly replied and he said my kill flavour is "shot". Wtf?

[ortolan]

So wait, your a mason-vig now?

Also, would you rather we lynch you or your mason buddy? We can't have 2 people claiming to be masons together but we can't keep them both becuase they may be scum buddies trying to stay alive.

lol

[ortolan]

dram says he doesn't randomise my kills

I'm assuming n0 I got redirected from ZazieR to Netopalis, n1 I got roleblocked (possibly by someone who thought I was scum after Zaz's flip)

[ortolan]

also, dram pointed me to rule 11 which says that if two kill methods target the same person, the more powerful one is displayed. When I asked if "sledgehammered" was more powerful than "shot", he didn't answer.

[ortolan]

@ortolan, why did you assume zazie is unnightkillable scum, instead of he being an unnightkillable town or a doc protected him or your kill got redirected or you got roleblocked or whatever?

Seemed an unlikely doc protection target tbh, also odds of a bulletproof townie role being in this game are incredibly low.

[ortolan]

and plus even if he was or claimed to be a bulletproof townie those sorts of roles can be very irritating to leave in the game if they turn out to be SKs

[ortolan]

do you really think an insane cop is more likely to be in this game than a bulletproof?

Well based on the fact a cop claimed a guilty on me when I know I'm town, I'd say the chances of that being due to the cop being insane are about 97%, with the only alternate explanation being that a framer happened to exist and target me.

and do you really think you being redirected is more likely than zazie being protected?

You are confusing two different positions here: what I thought at the start of the game when I started pressuring Zazie and what I think now. At the start of the game I jumped to the conclusion that Zazie was probably bulletproof SK, asking for a claim was perfectly reasonable and I interpreted his reaction as scummy. It wasn't even a case of going out all guns blazing, it was only after his reaction that I did so. Now that I know that my kill flavour is "shot", and having seen both night's actions it seems more likely that I was redirected to Netopalis n0 rather than there being another party in the game who also has the kill flavour "shot", as well as another party altogether who has the kill flavour "sledgehammered". Anyway it's all very complicated and I'm still not sure what to think exactly.

[ortolan]

I shake my hands of more town-fail, you're just digging your hole deeper

I guess I will have to wait till after the game to find out what the fuck is going on with my kill flavour, with the redirection and with non-reveal of insane cops

Can you explain why you think you are insane again?

Zazie was (highly likely to be) insane, unless there's a mafia framer in the game or some weird element where my role investigates as guilty, which wouldn't make sense considering I'm not aware of any obvious flavour justification between UncertainKitten/PokerFace for that being the case. I can't really say being "insane" doesn't fit the UK role either

wrt my role: Perhaps I got redirected to Hoops n0, and last night both I and the scum targeted hasdgfas. There are quite a few possibilities. I don't think I'm insane though, at least dramonic has pretty much guaranteed I'm not.

[ortolan]

why would you lynch me at this point? the mason thing never got counterclaimed.

anyway fail-role interactions are fail, as is fail-town. I have nothing more to say

[ortolan]

Touche'

Unvote, Vote: Ort

Although I am seriously tinfoil about how stupid yesterday was this somehow being town.

I am also, if that happened, going to be deadweight. Just an fyi.

If you're having a go at me my play wasn't stupid. It was a gamble, which I just happened to lose; but in an irrelevant way anyway. Even if I hadn't attacked Zazie he would have repeatedly tried to make cases against me and I would have called him out on whatever he was arguing, especially with my own result on him. So role interaction fail > anything else really.