Square Enix III: (Game over)

[PranaDevil]

/confirm too.

vote: Reck

Just because it would be funny to consider him going first again .

[PranaDevil]

If you said I was scum, I'd likely argue against it, wind up botching a claim and end up lynched. Just like last time. Because I'm a tit.

[PranaDevil]

I've unfortunately been helping my sister move house, so not been as active as I'd have liked, thankfully I get a break until Wednesday now.

RVS is something I generally hate, and while I don't mind joking about a bit, I find it does nothing at all to actually help the game along.

Really unsure about the wagon on Quadz that came out of seemingly nowhere, so if it's not just wagonning for the sake of it, can someone show me why we're diving on him so quickly?

[PranaDevil]

Thing is Chrono, that I don't really see it in this instance. It was an obvious twist of what was actually said (which I took as a jokey line as opposed to what Dram put), and so Kdub had good reason to point it out. Even if gandalf is scum, I wouldn't assume KDub is too, I'd say it was rather pro-town to point out something deliberately re-written to make someone sound scummier.

[PranaDevil]

Still not hugely sure about the Quad wagon, but the fact he's admitted to keeping it in RVS because he's "making up creepy serial killer stories" sounds like he's not really worried about moving the game on and generating discussion, and the closest we've got is him asking Reck to explain the unvoting stuff. So my willingness to vote him has gone up somewhat through that.

[PranaDevil]

Except it was in response to the earlier question of "What would you say if I said you were scum right now?" Hence the answer, which I take i nthe same vein as most others... not really serious at all, the fact you're willing to create a strawman attack on gandalf based on that alone however is well and truly noted.

[PranaDevil]

Nero is actually confusing me here. I've played with him (ooer) a few times (and even been scum with him before), and he's modded games... so him saying looking at what people are saying doesn't help is... strange at least. I'm not really sure how I feel about it yet though.

and Dram, a Strawman attack is a strawman no matter what else happens. It's the person making the attack which causes it to be a strawman, not the person being attacked.

In fact... right now my top suspect is Dram through the Strawman pushing. It reads to me like he saw the chance at having an easy lynch purely through shining a negative light on gandalfs post, and has been called on it, and thus is having to back it up despite the lack of an actual case.

unvote
vote: Dramonic

[PranaDevil]

Reck seems awful eager to keep Dram alive here... To the point he's allowing Dram to create an exceptionally weak case on someone else, but when Dram's called on it and voted, he'll call that a weak case when someone else follows onto the wagon and vote them... Sorry, but what? Reck's play at this point isn't pro-town, and diving headlong onto the bv wagon is bad form for everyone else when there's been no solid reasoning to do so.

[PranaDevil]

Okay Reck, Dram pushed gandalf for absolutely nothing whatsoever. Was that a pro-town move?

[PranaDevil]

@quadz08

Not sure if they're scum together, but if they're not it really doesn't explain why Reck is so desperate to save Dram from being pushed to a lynch.

@Fate

I'd like you to answer Quadz question too, as I have no clue where you're going with that statement.

[PranaDevil]

Fate, you're screwing with my head here. I had thought you were town, but the fact you're pushing this Quadz wagon so damn hard over so damn little, despite the fact that the Dram one is much more logical based on his poor reasoning for trying to push a lynch earlier, it makes me think you may well be scum, especially with the admitting that you only said Quadz is scum with Dram to switch the lynch back over.

[PranaDevil]

What's with people defending others so strongly here? You know something we don't Reck? (And I mean actual, important, worthwhile stuff for this game. Not bollocks like alt's that I don't give a toss about).

[PranaDevil]

So you're defending Dram for absolutely zero reason, are pushing heavily for a Quadz wagon, again for absolutely no reason, and have just admitted to not paying attention?

unvote; vote: Reck

Scummy enough as it is, but even at the very worst, we're left with people who are paying attention.

[PranaDevil]

for the time being, I recommend trusting Reck.

For what reason? What has he done that means you should trust him when he's just admitted to not even paying attention? If he can't trust his own judgement through not paying attention, how can anyone else trust it is beyond me.

[PranaDevil]

That still makes no sense. Town should be paying attention to the game and finding information from what's being posted. The fact you're not paying attention means it's impossible to suggest you are "definite" town, unless he has some other outside influence...

[PranaDevil]

Dram’s vote against Gandalf is way too scummy. Obv misrep and he even keeps it going after it’s explained why it’s a misrep. In case you start again with the ‘I did not misrep’, this is what happened:
MS – What would you say if I’d accuse you as scum right now?
Gandalf – I’d wonder how you could have figured me out with one post >.<

And you’re stating:
MS – What would you say if I’d accuse you as scum right now?
Gandalf – You can’t accuse me as I’ve only one post.

Gandalf1's answer is you can't, thus Gandalf2. It's not misrep.

See the difference.
How is Gandalf’s vote OMGUS? He has a reason behind his vote. Just because he voted you, who is voting him, doesn’t OMGUS make. It’s all about the reason. And yes, your vote is scummy.

His reason?

Dram seems to be acting strange to me. He's still pushing a wagon on me for one post. And not even a really scummy one, at that. It was a joke, and I assumed his vote was, too. But I guess he's serious, so

unvote

vote:dram

His reason for voting me is because I'm pushing a wagon on him over a post he doesn't seem scummy. He's calling me scummy for calling him scummy. It IS OMGUS.[/quote]
Pardon?

The misrep is the blatant point that it was a joke response to the question, the same as pretty much everybody gave, you're taking it entirely out of it's actual context and giving it a completely new meaning. It's the smegging definition of a misrep.

His vote isn't OMGUS, it's, and I'm paraphrasing here "I didn't care when I thought he was joke voting me, but he's actually serious, with that weak reason? Town don't need to stretch to find issues". It damned sure ISN'T "Dram voted me, I'll vote him".

However, you're doing a beauty of a job at attempting to paint Gandalf as scummy when he's done nothing scummy thus far.

---

Vote Count:

dramonic: 5

(KDub, gandalf5166, Zazier, Fate, inHimshallbe)

quadz08: 5

(xRECKONERx, Devotress, Midnight's Sorrow, Chronopie, bill1148)

gandalf5166: 2

(Vamparific, dramonic)

xRECKONERx: 2

(PranaDevil, bv310)

Devotress: 1

(Nero Cain)

Fate: 1

(quadz08)

Chronopie: 1

(Nautilius)

Not Voting:

JPSalazar

Lynch:

10 votes.

Deadline:

July 22nd - 8:00 PM EST

[PranaDevil]

Well, being as I find Reck and Dram equally scummy, and feel they may be in it together...

unvote; vote: Dram

[PranaDevil]

PREPARING TO QUOTE ROLE PM TO GET MODKILLED TO SPARE MYSELF FROM THIS STUPID TOWN

Yes, because you obviously know more about Dram's alignment than everyone else.

The only way you would know about Dram's alignment is if you were either scum, or in some kind of mason alliance with him.

The fact Dram has failed to step up with any claim yet, and Chrono has, and yet you are willing to lynch a claimed mason over someone who has blatantly acted scummy for no reason outside of you wanting to play beyond day one of a game with him is smegging ridiculous.

Either play the pissing game or don't, but stop trying to keep someone alive for nothing more than wanting to play beyond day one with them. If they're scummy, they're sodding scummy. The reason for voting Dram is not "weak" in the slightest, but you've been pushing weak cases all damned day.

Dram is the scummier of the two, and due to the deadline looming we have to pick one or the other (Though the way you're playing I would be much happier with a Reck lynch, but I can't do that on my lonesome, and I'd rather lynch Dram now than risk a no-lynch, or risk someone who's not as scummy being lynched thanks to my actions), thus Dram should be our lynch.

[PranaDevil]

So you would rather try and deliberately fuck the game up because of a little pissy fit you wish to throw, as opposed to being an adult and playing the game as it's meant to be played? (Something you have failed to do since it started I might add).

[PranaDevil]

I like how Vezo comes in here and starts shooting off that I'm obv scum, ignores MS, and states Glork has said I'm scummy. When what he actually said was "from our QT" it was likely me or MS, and that he had previously had people claiming he said I was definitely town, when he hadn't said that either. He's basically saying he's not sure either way, as opposed to "Prana's scum". So may I ask you to please pay attention to the game vezo, especially when it's things where people have claimed parts of their role previously (such as Chrono claiming mason on day 1).

Incidentally, I'm not 100% on anyone left in our QT, Glork is strong as hell if he's town, but he's going to be even stronger a mafia if he can convince people to follow his lead. However thus far he's done nothing scummy so I have no reason to pursue anything in that sense. Vezo I've seen absolutely nothing pro-town, but the latest jump to conclusions is a bit iffy for me, but I'm also wary of diving on him purely because he's attacking me. Pushing people is good, jumping on someone just because they chose to pursue something they think might lead somewhere (rightly or wrongly) is bad.

MS and KDub I'm not really that sure on thus far, so don't want to make a call either way yet.

To be honest, right now I'm still concerned about how the hell we lynched JP like we did. Half the votes needed to lynch and he's gone, and I still doubt it was an active ability, which leads me to believe there's either two scum teams, or a third party out there. Especially with the amount of kills going round this game.

[PranaDevil]

Vezo is pro-town based on claim alone (same as Chrono). He can prove his ability and it can apparently block at least one of the night kills. If there are two scum teams, that pretty much nullifies that chance he is from Scum team A. WHY block everyone if it prevents your kill? If he is from the same scum team as the one that killed last night, that would be

extremely

over-powered, considering he said he can use it on even night phases. It's still possible that it's SK, but SK's are far more rare than two scum teams. As well, I've never heard of a mass-roleblocking + kill every night SK.

On the second part, it reads "I'm disappointed a scum leader died."

But a question on the second part about JP: You believe, then, that this was an ability used by another player, rather than a counter-productive ability that JP already had?

Point taken about vezo's claim, that does, indeed, confirm him. It would be ridiculous for a mafia to have that power and then fire it off when they could be killing. Unless... their mafia team can only kill once every other night. (Which is a possibility, as we know there is at least one role with that ability now, in vezo's own claim).

I'm really not sure if it's two scum teams, or an SK, but I really don't feel JP had an active ability that risked him being lynched purely through some day 1 pressure. It would make the game too swingy and I don't think Kise would put that in. It's something I don't wish to consider to be honest, and thus I'm more of the opinion somebody else used an ability that forced JP to be lynched early.

Which brings me to why I'm concerned about how we lynched JP. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that we got lucky, but I'm not going to ignore what is essentially staring us in the face, namely that it is unlikely to be an active ability, and that it's even more unlikely that a pro-town player used it on JP like that. I hadn't picked up on anything scummy JP had done when I returned and looked over the posts that happened while I was away, so it appeared to just be some pressure on him, and suddenly he's lynched.

Thus I see it as scum getting rid of someone else regardless of who it was, and it coincidentally being an opposing scum team. Hence my concern.

[PranaDevil]

Well I can use my ability like this.
I didn't use it night 1. I used it night 2. I can't use it again night 3. Night 4 I can use it.
It was to powerful if I could have used this every day. You know. Lynch, next lynch, lynch again.

I gathered as much vezo, I was just kind of thinking aloud about how if the mafia can only kill every other night then it might make sense to have a scum roleblocker who can only block once every other night, and thus try and protect the team on their "off" nights.

But at this stage it's too far fetched to really consider it, and so I'd rather look elsewhere for now anyways.

[PranaDevil]

I'm still not 100% convinced on Vezo's towniness, though willing to give him a pass for now.

But I will say that the list of possible lynches sounds about right. I'm not a big fan of that bv wagon in the slightest either, it seemed to grow rapidly out of nothing as far as I could tell (unless there's QT stuff I don't know about). I'm also wondering whether the bill wagon is drawing opportunistic scum into it. bill made a terrible post when he voted bv despite acknowledging it as a bad wagon, but the very fact he acknowledged it as such and then voted makes me wonder why he would try that as scum, he's not that bad of a player as proven in SE 1. So it would be stretching it to think he would pull a scum slip like that.

Now... what's the reason for the Quadz wagon again? I feel like I'm just watching a couple of people start wagons in various directions and everyone else is just going "yeah, that's good" and throws a bunch of votes onto it, what the smeg?

[PranaDevil]

I have a masonry. My masonry has a cop. We started clearing one neighbourhood at a time. Do not ask who the cop is, I will not tell you.

I highly doubt Glork would be asking who the cop is, nor would anyone else, I mean there's role fishing and there's "sweet fucking christ you've just killed the town cop". But I honestly don't know why you revealed that info, has it benefitted anyone in the game outside of scum? Not really no. You've also announced that you have no clue, really, if anyone on your town list is actually town or not when you went and voted Quadz, so where the hell are you going with stuff?

So what is it Chrono? Are you scum trying to confuse the hell out of town, or are you a town mason who just threw together some random lists for the sake of it to try and get scum to kill from the wrong list? Because as it stands you're actions are getting a little jumpy for my liking.

[PranaDevil]

Excellent, So if you're town you've either condemned your partners, or you're attempting to set up the scums, who would likely know if you are as they would likely be part of your random group of town, and thus the only people who don't know of your plan to set them up is the town.

If you're scum you're just confusing town and using mason stuff to cover your tracks. Argh!

I don't want to lynch a claimed mason, but christ on a bike you're making it hard Chrono. For the time I feel a Bill lynch may work for the best, but sort yourself out Chrono.

vote: Bill

[PranaDevil]

FYI: Prana was in the mid-wagon on dramonic. Was completely absent Day 2 during that JP escapade.

Way to go there Bill mah boy, if you'd also paid attention I went V/LA during night 1, and PM'd Kise about it (he states I'm V/LA in his post returning from night), and I'm still V/LA when the lynch happens. Ergo it's hardly surprising I was absent, I was nowhere near an internet connection for that period.

[PranaDevil]

To be honest, right now nobody is standing out to me as scum, and while you're not being obv. scum or anything, I do feel you've been the most inconsistant. You pulled me up over purely being concerned over JP's lynch, despite the fact I'd made my reasons obvious why I was concerned, you've also stated Vezo is pro-town after the claim, and then waited a while before saying that it was a terrible job for him to role claim, why did you feel the need to add that well after the claim had been said?

It just feels wrong to me, hence why I'm on your wagon and nobody elses.

[PranaDevil]

EBWOP.

Also, you may not have said I didn't V/LA, but you obviously chose not to mention it, and whether I'm V/LA and not posting, or supposedly active and not posting makes a huge difference.

It comes across, to me, as deliberately trying to point out to people that I wasn't discussing anything while JP was getting lynched, despite the fact I couldn't get online at the time anyway, but conveniently neglecting that part of the tale.

So that also now factors into my view of you, an obvious misrepresentation of what was going on at that point in the game.

---

Vote Count:

bill1148: 6

(Zazier, Fate, Midnight's Sorrow, PranaDevil, inHimshallibe, vezokpiraka)

inHimshallibe: 3

(KDub, bv310, Glork)

PranaDevil: 1

(xRECKONERx)

Midnight's Sorrow: 1

(bill1148)

quadz08: 1

(Chronopie)

Not Voting:

quadz08

Lynch:

7 votes.

Deadline:

August 11th - 3:00 AM EST

[PranaDevil]

I'd be against letting Chrono decide anything beyond what he's having for dinner at the moment (and even then if he's sharing it with anyone I'd suggest giving it the once over before he poisons someone with it).

We need someone who at least has some read on people deciding this one, and that person needs to be either pro-town, or have an agreement from a few people before we go anywhere. I'd suggest Glork for this one though, as he directed us right in SE 1, and I'm hoping he's able to steer us right this time too.

[PranaDevil]

To be honest, right now nobody is standing out to me as scum

Being that this is Day 3, I'd like to think that you have some idea who is scum. Here you are admitting that I do not "stand out as scum," yet you'll readily toss a wagon vote onto me?

That's the thing, the people who are acting most scummy, are also people I think are likely town, and I'm confused as fuck.

You pulled me up over purely being concerned over JP's lynch, despite the fact I'd made my reasons obvious why I was concerned,

I said how I felt you sounded. I did not make a 10 page report on how you sound

over the internet

makes you scum.

Purely pointing out why I have negative vibes towards you.

you've also stated Vezo is pro-town after the claim, and then waited a while before saying that it was a terrible job for him to role claim, why did you feel the need to add that well after the claim had been said?

Perhaps a misunderstanding, but I still fully believe veok is pro-town.

How

he plays is another story, and there is not denying that claiming a fairly powerful ability when he had no reason to is dumb. As for "waiting too long after the claim to mention it," it took me a while to come to the realization that vezok would be blocking our doctor while simulataneously [possibly] allowing himself to be killed by an un-blockable killer, hence my concern. Though I am surprised no one had come to that realization before I did.

Fair point on this one.

EBWOP.

Also, you may not have said I didn't V/LA, but you obviously chose not to mention it, and whether I'm V/LA and not posting, or supposedly active and not posting makes a huge difference.

I'll re-phrase:

I don't give a flying fuck that you were absent Day 2. It's something that doesn't help you nor hurt you. It was there mostly for the purpose of pointing out to anyone who was going to ask "who'd he wagon Day 2?"

But it didn't need pulling up, nor pointing out. The fact you chose to deliberately not state in your statement that I wasn't active Day 2 due to being V/LA does, as far as I'm concerned, make it seem like you are deliberately trying to make out that I chose not to post for the entire day, as opposed to not being able to. You say others were "absent" as well. No, they weren't, those others may not have posted at all, but they damned sure weren't V/LA, which is the big difference in what I'm getting at.

[PranaDevil]

Balls to it, Bill is still possibly scum, but I agree, we need to get rid of the lurker scums.

unvote; vote: InHim

[PranaDevil]

Actually a quick count up makes my vote number 8, Vezo was the official hammer (unless I've mis counted).

[PranaDevil]

Ah, I missed Glork unvoting InHim when I counted up.

[PranaDevil]

Of course we do Billscum.

[PranaDevil]

Nice to know you suddenly want to lynch lurkers in the same post that you hammer one without asking for a claim first. I also haven't forgotten that the JP quicklynch took off right around when you were starting to get some votes. If inHim flips scum on a different team than JP, you are probably inHim's partner.

Yeah, I went and asked my scum mates to kill off JP right around the time I was 25 miles away from home, at my mates house, with no internet connection and thus was V/LA... christ on a bike and the twelve disciples on a twelve seater tandem...

[PranaDevil]

FUCKING KNEW IT.
THANKS CHRONO
THANKS FOR NOT TELLING OUR QT WHO THE OTHER MASONS ARE
ARE YOU SHITTING ME?

Vote: quadz

Hate to point this out, but if Quadz is scummy to you, then surely that's a plus point? If Chrono had told your QT who the others are then Quadz could have taken them out?

So based on that logic, it would have been poor judgement to release the names. Hell, Glork even said about it in our QT asking if anyone was with them to make sure they didn't spill anything once we found out 100% there was two scum teams. I'd hope even with the piss poor logic Chrono was spouting in the last day phase that he wouldn't be stupid enough to go revealing stuff to unconfirmed players.

Based on that though, I'm actually rather suspect of Quadz, I'm not even really sure what, but something has been niggling at me for a while. So for now I'll put my vote in that direction.

Vote: Quadz

[PranaDevil]

He was the major wagon day 1 if IIRC. Then everybody switched to Dram.
Look where that led us to. I think the dram wagon was just a counter wagon for quadz.

Not so sure it was a "counter" wagon so much, as I feel Dram was acting scummy. However I do feel that scum possibly latched onto it quickly.

[PranaDevil]

It's 3:3:12, no way would it be 4:4:10, as town would have no chance way too quickly.

And while I was suspicious of Quadz before, Reck's statement makes me all the more positive that Quadz is scum.

I am, however concerned that Vezo has been all up for a Quadz lynch, and now suddenly switches to Glork. I admit there are times I've been a little suspect of Glork, but I put that down to me being more wary of everyone unless I have solid reasons to believe they are town, than to Glork actually being scum.

[PranaDevil]

1) What do you think of the masonry? Is there a Mason Cop out there? Could there be additional masons out there?

No idea about a cop, though it wouldn't shock me thus far being as we've had all Vanillas and town seems severely underpowered from where I'm sitting.

Thoughts on the masonry... they played fucking awful, Chrono especially, and I'm glad I wasn't with them as I'd be more pissed off than I currently am at Chrono fucking things up as much as he did for town.

To that end... is there more masons out there? Possibly, especially as already said Chrono was talking in plural for ages. No clue if they have a power or not, but if they do they would be overpowered (unless that was all of town's power, which I'm worrying about now)

2) What do you think of Quadz? Specifically,

WHY

do you think he is town or scum?

As I already said, this one just seems like gut, Reck's posting helps me confirm my gut feeling too though.

3) What do you think of the numbers game? Are we at 2:2:6? 3:3:4? 1:1:8? Why do you think we have the current setup, and what do you think we need to do to bring home the victory?

At worst it's 2:2:6, anything more than that is ridiculously overpowered and I wont consider it, it's possible it's less scum and more town, but I'd rather err on the side of caution and assume we're in potential LyLo as it might prevent fuck ups.

4) Who are your top suspects at this exact moment? Which scumgroup do you think those players are in? Why do you suspect those players?

Quadz as said above, I'd go with Bill too, and KDub rubs me up the wrong way and I have no clue why either. But that's on the back burner personally, Quadz is at the top for me now, and Bill just behind. I'm a little concerned Vezo could possibly be one of the scums, but that would make the ability even more overpowered, and unless the scums can only kill every other night or something it would make the ability pointless for scum.

[PranaDevil]

I think the doc should "consider" protecting you. But not outright do so. If we all 100% know the doc's target tonight then the scum know exactly where he's going and can easily avoid him. While if they're not sure it's more of a risk.

[PranaDevil]

No Reck, you weren't voting Quadz, however we have reached the lynch from what I can make out.

[PranaDevil]

MS, nobodies saying it was a bad wagon, people are pointing out the hammer was rushed. I hold my hands up on the previous one, I didn't realize I was casting the final vote. This time around it was blatantly known it was the last vote. We had a lot more discussion we could have got through, and it's been cut short by a deliberate early hammer, it's hardly surprising Bill's not happy with it.

[PranaDevil]

Not the point Vezo and you know it.

MS, I'm guessing that's what Bill and Glork mean though, the past three days have had speedy lynches, and that's what they're getting at.

[PranaDevil]

I'm not going to buy Vezo scum at the moment, I honestly feel the mass RB ability is too poor for a scum team power. Unless the scum can only kill every other night (but I'm not thinking that's a possibility) as they'd be able to kill one night, RB the next etc. So I'm more going to assume Vezo is pro-town for the time being. Terrible for dropping the hammer, but the play of town so far (Dram/Reck on day one, Chrono/Fate all while they were alive, Vezo, and even my accidental hammer drop Day 3) has been fucking god awful.

---

Vote Count:

quadz08: 6

(PranaDevil, KDub, Midnight's Sorrow, bill1148, Glork, vezokpiraka)

Not Voting:

bv310
quadz08
xRECKONERx
ZazieR

Lynch:

6 votes.

Deadline:

August 17th - 11:30 PM EST

[PranaDevil]

*rolls eyes* Reck, Dram was scummy as fuck. No two ways about it. Which is also why he was lynched. All you did was spend day one shouting, bitching and ranting about how people are fucking idiots etc. for pushing Dram's lynch.

[PranaDevil]

*ahem* Who called Bill as scum? I caught him midgame and no bugger bothered to see it. Had he been the lynch after Vezo town would have been in a stronger position.

But I agree with Glork, the balance was off, it was a great game by all accounts, but after a run of spot on lynches to have the town win come down to what was basically a prisoners dilemma thing meant it went out on a bit of a damp squib.

Also, anyone who has yet to slap Chrono... please do so now.