Supernatural mafia - Mafia team wins!!!!!

[LimMePls]

Hunt: Midnight's Sorrow

Because if my previous experience with him is any indication he is unlynchable.

[LimMePls]

I don't think I was hunting Hydrak, I think I was hunting MS. Not that it matters, its just RVS.

Unhunt
Hunt: skeith931

All my past experience with him he has been scum.

[LimMePls]

Do you think that all RVS votes have no worth to the rest of the game and are, in effect, pointless?

No, I just meant that it wasn't critical or anything. I had no reason to vote MS other RVS reasons, so seeing my vote miscounted doesn't seem like something to make a big deal about, that's all I was saying.

I think the hydras should have to disclose their account names as a rule, but if no such rule exists *shrug*. I don't rely on meta very much, so it doesn't seem like that big a deal to me.

[LimMePls]

As town we generally don't have a lot at our disposal. Information is our greatest tool and we'll need as much as possible. Resistance in this arena is scummy.

This is actually a really great point. This information could be useful to the town, so they should provide it.

[LimMePls]

As town we generally don't have a lot at our disposal. Information is our greatest tool and we'll need as much as possible. Resistance in this arena is scummy.

This is actually a really great point. This information could be useful to the town, so they should provide it.

You say "the town" like you aren't part of us.

igmeoy

That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

[LimMePls]

Oh, well, you know sarcasam and the interwebz... they are mortal enemies.

[LimMePls]

Hunt:KageLord

This is the second time you've voted him, and in another post you specifically call him scum. He only has two posts. Are you still in RVS? If not, what exactly do you find scummy?

[LimMePls]

You know, I'm more interested to find out which characters are here and what their role powers are. The quotes from the show so far have piqued my interest.

You are more interested in which characters the mod chose to turn into roles than in discussing information that may be relevant to hunting scum?

Unhunt
Hunt: KageLord

[LimMePls]

I didn't get that feeling. This feels to be like you are trying to put suspicion where there really is none.

I AM getting the same vibe, which is why I responded the way I did.

[LimMePls]

@ Starbuck + LMP: I've already stated that it was posted in sarcasm.

This is true. Doesn't mean it was any less interesting that you made the comment to begin with.

@LMP

I do believe KageLord answered himself

Quite right.

[LimMePls]

Wow... I thought people had more common sense than this. By "I'm more interested", I meant that I am more interested in that than in finding out who GH is. Thanks for the misrep though.

That's exactly my point, it isn't a misrep at all. Which accounts make up the two heads of the hydra is more important to the game than which characters got which powers. Dismissing that the identities of the two heads could be useful information while saying you are more interested in the fluff seems scummy to me.

[LimMePls]

Not really. I think it was scummy of LMP to do that, but I don't think it necessarily means anything about Starbuck. She was just late on the draw, and it's LMP that pinged my scumdar with that.

So I pinged your scumdar, but you were just being sarcastic? Which is it? Was I scummy or not? You claimed it was sarcasm, and I made a post saying that sarcasm and the interwebz do not mix. I didn't say that I believed your explanation. The fact that Starbuck saw what I did and commented on it only reaffirmed my read. Your attempt to twist my words as some sort of scum slip, and then backtracking when called out on it is scummy. Your attempt to paint SB and me as scum for pointing it out even doubly so.

Unhunt
Hunt: ReaperCharlie

[LimMePls]

@MOD: I think you missed my hunt change.

Not really. I think it was scummy of LMP to do that, but I don't think it necessarily means anything about Starbuck. She was just late on the draw, and it's LMP that pinged my scumdar with that.

So I pinged your scumdar, but you were just being sarcastic? Which is it? Was I scummy or not? You claimed it was sarcasm, and I made a post saying that sarcasm and the interwebz do not mix. I didn't say that I believed your explanation. The fact that Starbuck saw what I did and commented on it only reaffirmed my read. Your attempt to twist my words as some sort of scum slip, and then backtracking when called out on it is scummy. Your attempt to paint SB and me as scum for pointing it out even doubly so.

Unhunt
Hunt: ReaperCharlie

Fixed!

[LimMePls]

Still loving my vote.

[LimMePls]

^So we shouldn't policy lynch you, but we should lynch one of the RCs so that we don't have distraction about the abbreviation RC? *SIGH*

[LimMePls]

^So we shouldn't policy lynch you, but we should lynch one of the RCs so that we don't have distraction about the abbreviation RC? *SIGH*

They need an emoticon that sticks your head into your hands and sighs.

Saw this in another thread.



Not an emoticon, but I think it gets the idea across.

[LimMePls]

^ I agree with pretty much all of this.

But now it's probably time to stop with the facepalm pics and random side-chat.

[LimMePls]

I mean, I know I'm not the best

Scum

Demon

-hunter, but I'm still willing to take A Shot at it.

You know you just softclaimed 1-Shot Vig, right? Yeah, you pretty much fucked up now.

Why make it worse by pointing it out for any scum that may have missed the bread crumb?

This is actually a really great point. This information could be useful to the town, so they should provide it.

How?

By providing us with the ability to meta. I don't think this is information that should be held back. I stated earlier in the thread, I think hydras as a rule should be required to announce their two heads.

That being said, I think we've spent enough time on this, GH doesn't want to provide the info, and while we may think it's scummy, I don't think enough people want to lynch them over it. It is something to remember though.

[LimMePls]

Haaaaaaaaaaaaa stop pretending like you saw it first. lmao

I'm not saying I saw it first, I'm saying why point it out? If he is bread crumbing his role, what pro-town reason is there to yell it out to everyone? Is it normal for townies to see bread crumbs and then just point them out? If I saw a bread crumb I'd keep my mouth shut, and only point it out later if the player contradicts it.

My question still stands. @GT: Why did you feel the need to point it out?

In other news my vote is still awesome.

[LimMePls]

Did you read the end of my post? Or did you just Ctrl+F it for your name?

I'm not asking you, I'm asking GT. Also, you answering the question before he does is really frustrating.

[LimMePls]

unhunt: hunt: reapercharlie

I do not like your tone Sir. That and the squeekiest wheel gets the grease so there you go.

I heartily approve of this post.

[LimMePls]

Wow, that's easy.

Unvote
Vote: KageLord

[LimMePls]

Oops, thanks folks.

Unhunt
Hunt: KageLord

[LimMePls]

Your attempt to paint SB and me as scum for pointing it out even doubly so.

I didn't see Reaper say anything about me being scummy.

Could you or Magna show me where this is?

This is actually a really great point. This information could be useful to the town, so they should provide it.

You say "the town" like you aren't part of us.

I didn't get that feeling. This feels to be like you are trying to put suspicion where there really is none.

Then all of a sudden you think its oooOOOoooo! suspicious! once again.

Seems like you just made a halfway joking case about a joking comment I made, knowing it'd fall through, but then when someone else picked up the scent, you pretended you were serious the first time. Hmmmmm....

This is the post that made me say that. On second read, he may be addressing me here and not you, but I read it as addressing you because you are the one quoted.

[LimMePls]

Kill: KageLord

BOOYAA!

Hunt: Starbuck

For being an idiot. This is obviously her grasping at an opportunity to kill a town member with little to no reasoning.

WHAAA!?!?

Unhunt
Hunt: hydrak

[LimMePls]

FWIW I'm backing off my RC-scum thinking after this wall-o-catchup. This play seems different to me than previous experience I've seen out of scum RC. Perhaps he really was being sarcastic with me earlier.

Anxiously awaiting this hydrak claim.

[LimMePls]

More likely a cult recruiter. This role sounds extremely unlikely.

@Hydrak: You are saying that there definitely is a cult in this game, and you can undo the recruitment? Does it saying anything about what would happen when a recruited player reverts to town? Would they be stopped from telling us all the members of the cult? If not, wouldn't that be too powerful.

[LimMePls]

I really don't know what we're supposed to say. Is that 5 deaths with no flip? Vig + lynch plus 3 NKs?

@Mod: Will we ever get flips, or is that a game mechanic for this round?

[LimMePls]

Vote: Chronopie

Fake breadcrumbs 1-shot vig (aka Lying) and then wants us to believe he is a miller, although he has no abilities? Ya, I'm not buying what he's selling.

The tubby wagon seems forced to me, I think there are opportunistic scum there. TheLonging for one.

[LimMePls]

So any votes but Tubby votes are scummy RC? That is laughable.

[LimMePls]

The tubby wagon seems forced to me, I think there are opportunistic scum there. TheLonging for one.

Point out where I was opportunistic. Or where I was scum.

Clearly in the context of what I was saying, I think you were being scummy and opportunistic in your tubby vote.

@MOD: Whoops, thanks

Hunt: Chronopie

[LimMePls]

So any votes but Tubby votes are scummy RC? That is laughable.

Nope, but the way you said it slapped me in the face and I couldn't just ignore it, now, could I?

And don't twist my words. What I said was: YOUR vote was scummy. Nothing about 'any votes except tubby votes are scummy'.

Twist your words? Are you kidding??? Here are you words, bolded for emphasis:

And LMP, the feeling I get from your counter-vote

(i.e. not a Tubby vote)

is that of a scum member trying

to establish a viable counter-wagon

... i.e. NOT constructive.

How exactly did I twist your words? You yourself said that you had a problem with it because it was "not a Tubby vote" and that I was "trying to establish a viable counter-wagon". How does that mean anything other than you have a problem with non-Tubby votes? Why are non-Tubby votes "NOT constructive"?

But while we're still on this subject, do you not think tubby is a good wagon? Why or why not? What in the H377 is wrong with TL's post? What's wrong with mine? What's wrong with ANY of them?

You sound like you're dissenting for the sake of dissenting, throwing a mass-FOS at a block of us like that.

Consider this your two-and-a-half^th strike.

What are you talking about? I even called out TL by name, I wasn't "throwing a mass-FOS". And no, I don't think a tubby lynch is right, but you guys go ahead if it makes you happy. I tend to agree with his observation that lynching while we have 5 dead unknowns is risky. Think about it, except for the fact that there are fewer targets its like its still D1. We have little more info than we did. As for his "scum-slip", I don't think assuming cross kills in a game this size is scummy. If you all see it as a slip, well I can't fault you, but that's not the way it read to me at all.

"Strikes" from you don't scare me at all RC. As for your accusation of me throwing out FOS's:

HOS: ReaperCharlie

For claiming I misrep him when he CLEARLY said he didn't like my vote because it was non-Tubby.

My hunt on Chrono stays. His "fake breadcrumb" should be translated as "lie" and now he's claiming millar, only not millar. Seems really scummy to me.

[LimMePls]

The tubby wagon seems forced to me, I think there are opportunistic scum there. TheLonging for one.

Point out where I was opportunistic. Or where I was scum.

Clearly in the context of what I was saying, I think you were being scummy and opportunistic in your tubby vote.

So uh, you can't provide reasoning

It's really quite simple.

well we could always not hunt today and see if that forces the flips from yesterday. cause otherwise we are hunting blind and who knows what we will end up killing.

No that is a terrible idea. I'm sure there's a role that will reveal flips. I would much rather hunt someone today.

Hunt: tubby216

Your vote is almost completely void of reasoning. You vote him because he suggests we maybe shouldn't lynch with 5 dead unflipped players. Why exactly is this suggestion scummy? Did you suspect Tubby prior to this? Have you ever even mentioned Tubby this game so far? I'm thinking no. Remember this is before he makes the statement that others saw as scummy (about the scum cross-kill). Even if you disagreed with his suggestion that we shouldn't hunt, why does that mean he should be the one hunted?

I've put my entire role out there. So try finding some

Actual

scum. kthx.

Shhhhhh scum, I am.

[LimMePls]

You have yet to address your double standard. You completely skimmed over it the first time, and just did it again.

Kettle, there's a phone call for you. It's the pot.

You still haven't addressed 593. Hope it is going away?

It was a test Reaper ... didn't you divine that from the lack of cohesive case that usually accompanies votes from me that aren't based on information roles?

As to why you are scum it's simple and I'll just put it out there for everyone to see

You were Tracked last night to Molestargazer who quite convienantly is Waiting in the Wings.

I'd rather not pussy-foot around with you. You may begin to flail about now.

More Reaper votes people!!!!

BOOYAA! Time to die scum. Calling it since D1.

Unhunt
Hunt: ReaperCharlie

Looking at those 6 votes on Tubby is going to make this game retarded easy.

[LimMePls]

The tracking is icing on the cake, it isn't even required for a Reaper case. Look at his play. When I totally busted his ass in 593, he completely disengaged from our back and forth and went after Tubby some more. Then he has the gaul to say other people are disregarding things.

Reaper has been playing like scum since D1 with his weak ass "sarcasm" on me. Read him in ISO please. This isn't rocket science.

[LimMePls]

It's funny how you all say those things as if you know exactly what people flipped...

Have something you all need to tell the rest of the Town? *raises eyebrow*

How does any of these things have anything to do with what people flipped?

[LimMePls]

i don't know who killed mole but i sure as h311 didnt.

Saying this doesn't make it so.

And instead of ignoring when I caught you in a complete distortion, you could have owned up to it. The fact that you were unwilling to is even FURTHER proof of your consciousness of guilt. When you have nothing to hide and someone points out you're incorrect, you own up to it. Ignoring it shows you have something to hide.

Reaper couldn't be more guilty folks. He accuses people of scum for terribad reasons, and then immediately backtracks (claiming sarcasm), he says those who start wagons on anyone but Tubby are "NOT contributing" and implies it is scummy, when I point out he says it, he doesn't deny it, he just changes the subject. To top it all off he was tracked to a NK. Talk about a smoking gun!

I dont know if you caught a PR tell or what, but it seems like you've been trying to push a lynch on me since day 1 and are looking for the smallest possible reasons and riding other peoples thunder to accomplish your own ends.

This is called flailing for a defense. And failing.

Moar RC votes pls.

And we know if he Scum or Town by this claim ....because?

We don't. We know he is scum by his play. Why would we know this by his claim? The only reason he even admits he visited Mole is after the tracker claim. What do you expect him to do, throw his hands up and say "You caught me"?

[LimMePls]

P.S. I have seen scum trackers in games before, it's possible Magna is trying to just set me up because he knew there'd be nothing I could claim to get out of it.

Occam's Razor tells me the simplest explanation tends to be more likely. Take the sum of all your play, add it up and then put a nice big "you visited a player that ends up NK'd" cherry on top, and it equals a Reaper-Scum Sundae. Magna's play on the other hand has been anything but scummy.

In order for your suggestion to be true, Magna would not only have to target you with his track, his scum team would also have to HAPPEN to submit an NK on the person you happen to target. Presumably they wouldn't have the track results until after, so you are asking us to suppose that not only did they pick you for a track, they also happen to pick for an NK the same person you targeted that night.

I'm gonna have to go with my ol' buddy Occam on this one. The simplest explanation is that you are lying and you NK'ed Mole.

[LimMePls]

MS, you are literally making 0 sense.

[LimMePls]

I'm simply amazed. I was actually stunned D1 because I couldn't believe how many town vibes I was getting off MS. Then WHOOSH, along came D2 and all of that goes right out the window. When RC hangs and flips scum, MS is next. There is no townie explanation for his nonstop spamming of this conversation with useless drivel.

what is wrong with my claim. dont you believe me? would my claim not perfectly explain what magna saw? i dont know if it fits flavor or not but nobody seems to be saying anything about that so i'll take it that it does fit.

Check my last post. My buddy Occam says you are full of BS.

[LimMePls]

I never responded to this, as I had more important fish to fry. However, now that RC has tucked tail and left, I figured I'd go back and answer it.

It's really quite simple.

well we could always not hunt today and see if that forces the flips from yesterday. cause otherwise we are hunting blind and who knows what we will end up killing.

No that is a terrible idea. I'm sure there's a role that will reveal flips. I would much rather hunt someone today.

Hunt: tubby216

Your vote is almost completely void of reasoning. You vote him because he suggests we maybe shouldn't lynch with 5 dead unflipped players. Why exactly is this suggestion scummy? Did you suspect Tubby prior to this? Have you ever even mentioned Tubby this game so far? I'm thinking no. Remember this is before he makes the statement that others saw as scummy (about the scum cross-kill). Even if you disagreed with his suggestion that we shouldn't hunt, why does that mean he should be the one hunted?

Did you even READ my wall of text? Like, I mention tubby 3 - 5 times.

Yes I did. Did you even read my post you are quoting here? I asked "Did you suspect Tubby

prior to this

". Clearly that means prior to the post where you were attacking him. Mentioning him 3 - 5 times in that one post is not the same as mentioning him before then. I think you were looking for an easy target, Tubby looked like one, so then you wrote a wall to attack him.

[LimMePls]

MS. Try to follow along please.

RC admits to targeting Mole last night.
MoI claims to track RC to Mole last night.

If your roleblock worked, then how did MoI know that RC went to Mole? This is why Sawyer says your RB must have failed.

There are three possibilities: MS's RB failed somehow, MoI knew that RC visited Mole by some other means, or MS is lying.

MS: Do you not understand that RC admits he visited Mole? If RC admits to visiting Mole, then how would MoI know this if your RB stopped him?

[LimMePls]

Moar RC votes please. He is obv scum.

[LimMePls]

This head has fallen behind quite a bit at this point

To make night actions clear though:

Manga tracked RC to MSG ("died").
RC also claims tracker and that he tracked MSG nowhere
MS claims to have RBed Manga

Either there was some bus/redirect shennanigans. MS got blocked and Farside settles RB -> RB as latter fails, or someone is lying.

If it is someone lying, it probably is RC, since scum Manga would not want to outhimself in this position. RC also appears to somewhat be giving up at this point.

Two people though I think are somewhat scummy that are being ignored.

First is ani.

Day one he did nothing at all. Reading him individually, you do not even know why he voted hydrak. Literally the entire first day he did nothing along the lines of scumhunting. He only made one serious vote. A majority of his posts were about ReC/RoC.

Today at least he did a little, although it is scummy. He offers to hammer RC for wanting to be lynched and "no pro-town players die if he is a bomb". This just adds paranoia to the game (and argueable means ani views himself as anti-town or that he doesn't care if he dies which is sorta like his case on RC).

Since then he voted the claimed RB (who is also fairly obviously town). Has not rectified this.

Those who I think are scummy on a gut level:
Nero Cain
Snow_Bunny

FoS ani

MoI is not the tacker. MoI is claiming to be in a QT with the tracker, that is how he knows. Look at his early posts where he comes out with the tracking knowledge. He doesn't say "I tracked you" he says "I know you were tracked". Later he explains this in detail. ISO MoI, it explains everything.

Then vote RC.

[LimMePls]

I didn't necessarily mean you GH, just in general. Was trying to clear it up for everyone. There is pretty much no read of the situation that doesn't end in Reaper-scum.

[LimMePls]

People who are ignoring the multiple massive holes in RC's story are scummy as hell.

[LimMePls]

People who are ignoring the multiple massive holes in RC's story are scummy as hell.

Please point them out, since I MUST be the only one who can't spot anything wrong with the claim

It's NOT JUST THE CLAIM. It's his play PLUS his claim PLUS the fact that he was tracked to a NK'ed player. Here are some highlights illustrating these points:

First, read this whole post. His "non-Tubby votes are scummy" crap was incredibly scummy. When I point this out, he completely ignores it, and only addresses it later when I force him to, admitting that he had said it.

Then there are these quotes:

Reaper couldn't be more guilty folks. He accuses people of scum for terribad reasons, and then immediately backtracks (claiming sarcasm), he says those who start wagons on anyone but Tubby are "NOT contributing" and implies it is scummy, when I point out he says it, he doesn't deny it, he just changes the subject. To top it all off he was tracked to a NK. Talk about a smoking gun!

The only reason he even admits he visited Mole is after the tracker claim.

Occam's Razor tells me the simplest explanation tends to be more likely. Take the sum of all your play, add it up and then put a nice big "you visited a player that ends up NK'd" cherry on top, and it equals a Reaper-Scum Sundae. Magna's play on the other hand has been anything but scummy.

In order for your suggestion to be true, Magna would not only have to target you with his track, his scum team would also have to HAPPEN to submit an NK on the person you happen to target. Presumably they wouldn't have the track results until after, so you are asking us to suppose that not only did they pick you for a track, they also happen to pick for an NK the same person you targeted that night.

I'm gonna have to go with my ol' buddy Occam on this one. The simplest explanation is that you are lying and you NK'ed Mole.

If that isn't enough for you, I'm sure the others who get it can help point to more. I really don't understand how anyone can look at today's play and come to any conclusion other than scum-RC. The only way you could believe that is to think MoI and whoever is his partner are lying, but we if we lynch RC and he flips town, then we can deal with that.

Look at it this way: One of Magna or RC is lying. Whose play do you find more pro-town? If we lynch RC and he turns up town, we can deal with Magna's claim then. But, given all of RC's play both yesterday and today, plus his being tracked to an NK'ed player (something he doesn't deny) there is really no other logical play but to lynch RC and sort it out from there.

@TL: Please explain to me what about RC's play (nothing about his claim, just his play) is pro-town.

[LimMePls]

RC admitted he used a night action on Mole. Here's where the difference of opinion comes in. You think he's scum because he targeted Mole and now he's dead. I don't think it's scummy because he could've just claimed Vig instead (which you probably would have believed due to post 792). That's exactly why I think you're scummy for not believing it. Because he could've made up a lie that you would've believed, and you still suspect him based on a hypothetical.

@Sawyer: I'd like an answer to the following questions.

Do you agree that RC only admitted to targetting Mole after the track result? Do you admit that RC made a scummy play with his "non-Tubby votes are NOT contributive" statement? What in RC's play (not including the claim) makes you think he is pro-town? Do you have any reason to doubt MoI is pro-town? If you had to believe one of MoI or RC's claim, which would you believe? Have you ever played a game with multiple town Trackers?

[LimMePls]

If you can't believe Bobby Singer as a claim, then you can't believe the claim of Dean or semi claimed Sam to be true. It's not the case of one or the other. You either believe both or not at all. Decide now.~

That is the most absurd thing I've ever heard. Why couldn't Dean and Sam be true and Bobby be a scum fake claim? Clearly we can believe some claims and disbelieve others.

We don't believe him because he is scummy

AND

he was tracked to an NK, although he claims to not be the killer! I mean COME ON. What more do you want? If someone is tracked to an NK, and they can't PROVE they didn't commit the kill, I see no alternative but to lynch him. If he turns up exactly what he claims, we deal with it later.

It'd be like someone claiming cop with a guilty on another player. What would you do? You'd lynch said player, and if they didn't flip scum you'd then question the cop. The only reason you'd be more cautious is if you were in jeopardy of losing (LYLO), but we're nowhere near that.

@MS:

Do you deny that RC's play is scummy? If so, please show me evidence of his pro-town play.
If RC's play is scummy, AND he was tracked to a NK, then why would we not lynch him?

[LimMePls]

Do you agree that RC only admitted to targetting Mole after the track result?

I do agree, but I wouldn't expect him to admit to it beforehand. Why would he?

Do you admit that RC made a scummy play with his "non-Tubby votes are NOT contributive" statement?

I don't. I don't think he meant that exactly. When I read that, I read it as him saying your non tubby vote was scummy. I figured it was bad wording. Like when refers to someone else as town and people say "how do you know he's town?"

What in RC's play (not including the claim) makes you think he is pro-town?

I don't think he's necessarily pro-town, just not scummy.

Do you have any reason to doubt MoI is pro-town? If you had to believe one of MoI or RC's claim, which would you believe? Have you ever played a game with multiple town Trackers?

Not at the moment. If I had to believe only one, it would be MoI, because RC admitted to it. No, but I also don't know how often it happens.

Thanks for the answers. Sawyer you seem reasonable enough, and so I don't know how else to convince you. I just ISO'd you, and I saw that you were suspicious of MoI yesterday, but you seem to have left that behind. Does the "why can't they both be town" mean that you now think MoI is town?

You say you don't think he is necessarily pro-town, but not scummy. Please explain what this means.

We're in a situation here where we have to sort out this mess. I think the best way to sort out this mess is to lynch RC. Who do you propose we lynch if we don't lynch RC? Why should we leave a player who was tracked to an NK alive? Wouldn't it require amazingly strong evidence towards someone else's guilt? In other words, isn't the burden of proof required to build a case for someone else's lynch much higher since we KNOW RC visited Mole last night?

Who do you want lynched if not RC?

[LimMePls]

What more do I want?

How about more objectivity and thinking outside the very small box you seem to be living in?

That would be a nice touch.

Also.

Why can't it be the other way around?

MS, seriously, when I saw you were in this game, I almost didn't sign up. But then I thought everyone deserves a second chance. And then your play D1 made me smile, I thought "Wow, I'm actually glad I didn't let it keep me out of this game". And then D2 happened, and I am now going to intentionally avoid you, and if you do end up in my games, I'm going to recommend you for policy lynching. Your play when you disagree with people makes my eyes bleed. It's literally the forum equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and saying "LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU, I'M RIGHT AND YOU'RE WRONG".

[LimMePls]

Alright, Sawyer makes my scum list.

For the people who don't doubt RC's claim, you could prove to be a valuable lynch.

Personally I think a better lynch would be Benmage.

You basically wanna lynch anyone but RC, even though you admit he isn't reading pro-town and admit he was tracked to Mole. You suggest that maybe I should be the lynch, but then go on to say Benmage should be the lynch, but you don't vote either one of us. If RC flips scum, as much as I wanna lynch MS, I think you're next.

[LimMePls]

If I'm not mistaken, Sawyer is the definition of "Chainsaw defense".

[LimMePls]

Ok whose the best?

I'm thinking Tubby, at the moment. He's been lurking, and his suggestion that we don't lynch and saying that scum could have cross killed (what I find to be a scum slip) make him a better lynch then you. But I wouldn't be surprised if this RC issue went far enough that I'd think your lynch would be almost necessary due to the uncertainly of whats going on.

Sawyer is apparently gonna keep naming everyone he can in hopes that one of them will get some sympathy. We need RC to hang, and when he flips scum, Sawyer is next.

[LimMePls]

Back up the truck …. say what? You allow for no scenario that allows for us both the be telling the truth?

Given RC's play D1 plus his flailing under pressure plus all the "well, maybe the tracked me and they killed my target" bs? I'd be stunned if he was telling the truth. Absolutely stunned.

[LimMePls]

I want to address this because I want to be sure I’m clear on this. You seem hung up on the portion of Reaper’s claim that is Vig based.

1. We have one proven Vig (Day Variety in Starbuck)
2. We had three kills last night. Reaper has claimed not to be one of them. Unless you are buying into a multi-Scum team plus Serial Killer set-up one of those kills is likely also a Vig.

How many Vigs do you think the game is likely to support?

I didn't mean he was the one that killed Mole as a Vig. As of now, I believe Reapers claim entirely. And Ben suggested a Vig and I was referring to Reaper because he has a Vig ability.

You're not understanding his point. His point is that Starbuck is a confirmed day-vig, plus there were 3 kills last night (which means we're against 2 scum teams and we had a vig, or 1 scum team, 1 sk, and 1 vig). Either way, that means we've already got a night vig and a day vig, the likley hood that Reaper is ALSO a vig is incredibly unlikely. Add that to the fact that he claimed tracker when we already have another tracker AND his scummy play (you at least admit it's "not pro-town") and the only logical conclusion is that he is scum.

What more would it take to convince you?

[LimMePls]

Anyways, the POINT is, I learned that game how

scum in multiple scum games

will latch on like a bulldog to anything that they think might lead to a rival scum flip. Both because I did it, and because I saw my teammates do it. And once I knew who the other scum were for sure after flips/game end, I could TOTALLY see us ALL doing it. We were busting our balls trying to get the rival scum lynched and it showed.

But, the reason this reminds me of what Benmage is doing is because of one thing: I was dead wrong about a few of the guys I was trying to bulldog and get lynched; in fact, two of the people I was 99% sure were the enemy godfather were as innocent as could be. Incidentally, the first was farside (lol!), and the other was Scott Brosius. I was SO sure with Scott Brosius that I would have bet the ENTIRE GAME on it. And of course, I would have lost.

Didn't you say that Tubby mentioning multiple scum groups was a scum tell? And now you're talking like this game is a multiple scum group game.

HOW IS THIS GUY NOT DEAD YET. Seriously.

[LimMePls]

Grats on the baby Girl RC! What's her name? Size/weight? Momma and baby in good health?

Way to go Daddy!

[LimMePls]

I will never again be fooled by LynchMePls. For the last week or two, it was evident that he was the Empire Godfather in Star Wars Mafia, because somebody let it slip in the dead QT. But before that, I had a sparkling, shining uber-townie image in my mind. He was very, very good in that game. So good that he made it from a 7-1 town vs scum scenario ALL THE WAY to endgame, and WON. So good, in fact, that he decided to save his hidden voting power until the VERY LAST DAY, when it was MyLo 2v1 and he used his secret vote for the first time on DAY TEN, and hammered one of the final two townies.

Ok, glad that's off my chest. This is the reason I think LMP should be immediately policy lynched, and why I think Benmage is scum tunneling on who he thinks is rival scum. i.e. In what was each our first game, I made a newbie scum mistake like Benmage is making, and LMP masterfully played over 10 guys like his puppets and narrowed down the voting pool strategically until he could win definitively and decisively.

For more meta: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13889

Love,
ReaperCharlie

I have to be policy lynched cause I was too good in 1 game? Really? Compare that game to this one. You claim I've done lots of scummy things this game, and in that game where I was scum that I hid it really well. So wouldn't meta dictate that I'm not scum in this case?

Oh, also, RC earlier said something about how the case on him was SOLELY because of the track. That is baloney. His attack on me D1 for saying "the town", and his attack on me today for voting anyone else but Tubby were both scummy. The case on him is CERTAINLY not just the tracking. The tracking just makes the other stuff more damning.

@Spyrex: Your intro posts when replacing into other games (can't link folks, sorry) have given me warm fuzzies in the past. Your intro post to this game reads scummy to me. IGMEOY.

[LimMePls]

Hunting:

Tubby (6) ReaperCharlie, Sawyer, Chronopie, TheLonging, Snow_Bunny, Lowell

I'd be happy with the entire Tubby wagon being vaporized.

[LimMePls]

I've already answered this question about tubby. I've already stated that I want RC lynched about a million times.

Tubby may have a few scummy things, but nothing in comparison to RC. Tubby's suggestion of no-lynching when we had 5 unflipped dead players was a bad idea, but that doesn't make it scummy. His suggestion that there are two scum groups could be a scum-slip. But none of that compares to the mountain of evidence that RC is scum. Tubby's play is a null tell, as far as I can see this is how Tubby always plays.

I dunno how to be any more clear than I have been today. If you don't understand my position, ISO me. If that doesn't help, I dunno what to say.

[LimMePls]

IN A DELAYED FLIP GAME HOW IN THE NAME OF EVERYTHING HOLY DO YOU LYNCH A CLAIMED CULT UNRECRUITER?

How were we supposed to know this was a delayed flip game? The only thing I see about it from the mod prior to that lynch was this:

Note:

Some people will not die right away. Just a warning.

This is not the same as the mod telling us it was a delayed flip game. This is a case of you assuming we had knowledge D1 that we didn't have. We had every reason to believe that lynch would flip. If you know of a reason why this isn't true, please fill me in.

[LimMePls]

I just ISO'd Spyrex, and I think I understand the argument against lynching RC.

@SpyreX: You want us to not lynch RC, because tonight if more deaths turn up than there were last night, then we'll know he was telling the truth, but if the same turn up, we'll know he was lying, is this a correct explanation of what you mean?

Doesn't this open us up to all sorts of counter arguments? "I was blocked", "I targeted the same person scum did", "One of the kills last night must have been 1-shot", "My target must have been doc/bp/nk-immune gf".

How does letting him live another night prove anything?

[LimMePls]

<3 992. I'll reiterate that I'd love nothing more than the entire tubby wagon to be nuked. I'm thinking 2 scum minimum on that wagon, more likely 3, and 4 isn't out of the realm of possibility (although unlikely).

[LimMePls]

mountain of evidence == magna tracked me to a dead guy? i have a perfectly good explanation for that, which is: yes. i admit it.

i was tracked to a dead guy!

...what the heck do you expect me to say? i was tracking him myself, cause he looked like scum trying to fly under the radar. if the truth is not a good enough explanation... what is? you expect me to come up with some awesome story including robots and aliens?

This is like the 3rd or 4th time you've falsely claimed that the only case on you is the tracking.

@SpyreX: Am I taking crazy pills? Will you please at least acknowledge that he is intentionally twisting the case on him, and that there is one that involves more than the tracking?

[LimMePls]

I'm seriously at a loss for words. In the end game, when RC is known scum, I'm going to feel really vindicated. (Granted I'll feel like a fool if he's town, but w/e). Any way you look at it, RC is clearly not getting lynched today.

Unvote
Vote: ani

I'm backing SpyreX's play today. Tomorrow is another story.

I have no idea what else to say about this game. It's going around in mindless circles, so something needs to happen.

[LimMePls]

Unvote
Vote: ani

Sorry, this should have been

Unhunt
Hunt: ani

By the time I get it right, this game will be over.

[LimMePls]

unhunt hunt:reapercharlie

Sigh... I've been dying for more RC votes for like a week now. What exactly made you do this now? If ani flips scum, GT could be trying to fire up the RC wagon again in a last ditch attempt to save ani.

[LimMePls]

Woo almost missed the trees for the forest.

Unvote, Vote: ReaperCharlie

Well played but alas, you go now.

I am also a tracker, Magna. I tracked molestargazer because it looked like he was trying to lay low and stay off the radar yesterday. He went nowhere.

Molestargzer - Uriel - town doctor - Shot night 1

This is all I needed to see.

And all I need to say is: "I told you so".

[LimMePls]

EBWOP:

Hunt: RC

[LimMePls]

Oops, too late.

Well, my only regret is I didn't get on in time to get on this wagon. Bye bye scum.

[LimMePls]

3. Regarding ReaperCharlie - I f'n told you so!!!

Thank you!

Vote: Sawyer

Time to die scum.

[LimMePls]

Also, it bears mentioning that SpyreX chastised us for lynching a claimed "cult unrecruiter" in a delayed flip game in his intro post. However, when I questioned him about how we were supposed to know it was delayed flip, I don't think he ever answered. Anyways, I think it's possible SpyreX is in the cult, particularly considering his defense of RC as well.

@SpyreX if you answered my question about the delayed flip, and I didn't see it, please feel free to point me to the post with your answer.

[LimMePls]

Gah, supposed to hunt.

What is the L- count at? I'll hold off, we don't need another short day.

[LimMePls]

The case was that JMJ tried to hide behind Sawyer but still died.

If you try to hide behind scum you die. If you hide behind town, then whoever targeted you for a kill will kill who you hide behind instead. Since jmj hid behind Sawyer and died, that means Sawyer = scum.

What his hard to understand about this?

[LimMePls]

No, the hider uses there target as a shield basically. If you hide behind someone that isn't scum, then all NKs on hit the person you hide behind instead. At least, that's the way I understand a hider to work. If you both died, then why would you ever hide behind someone?

[LimMePls]

You hide behind someone so that YOU can't be targeted.

Exactly. So there are two possibilities:

1) He hid behind scum and he died.

2) He hid behind town. If he hid behind town, then how did he die? Wouldn't the person he hid behind die instead?

Are you saying that there is a variant that doesn't die if it hides behind town, it just fails to hide? If that isn't what you are saying, then I am completely confused.

Regardless, much like my D2 case on RC, the case on Sawyer doesn't need jmj's hiding evidence, it just makes it better.

[LimMePls]

Unhunt

I don't want the day to end until we're ready to end it. My vote is for all purposes on Sawyer.

[LimMePls]

It's Day 4, we have over 1,300 posts to analyze, and you still don't have a scum read? What happen to your scum read on tubby216? Especially considering that tubby216 is on the Sawyer's bandwagon?

This is an awesome question.

In other news, I'm still willing to hammer. I'll wait until we're done with the day.

[LimMePls]

Toss that ========[] anytime you like.

With pleasure.

Vote: Sawyer

[LimMePls]

GroupThink
Snow_Bunny
Chronopie
GenericHydra
Kmd4390
Lowell
LynchMePls

People we need more content from

Snow_Bunny
GenericHydra
Kmd4390
Chronopie

These are lurkers I will support a lynch of today. If we choose to LAL.

SSBF: I understand that, but yeah. See, SB hasn't done SHIT this entire fucking game. He wasn't even replaced once, so either he's a very successful prod dodger, or he can't provide content. Why would you want this guy near endgame? I do see your point in Chrono though, and like I said, I will support his lynch.

unhunt

Hunt: Chronopie

FoS: tubby, SB

Nero: understandable, I'm going to give him 1 or 2 more chances to actually catch up.

IF YOU HAVE A SERIOUS LURKING PROBLEM, OR HAVE NO MOTIVATION TO PLAY, OR ARE IN A VERY LONG V/LA, REPLACE OUT IF YOU DON'T WISH TO PLAY. This seriously is hurting town.

You're saying you need more content from me? Really? I spent hours on this game trying to get us to lynch scum RC, and I've been engaged in the game every step of the way.

That is bullshit.

[LimMePls]

@GroupThink: I asked to Ythan. I will also be asking you this:

What have I done that is scummy? You have absolutely no evidence of this and I want it immediately.

And SSBF pings the scum-dar for the first time this game.

[LimMePls]

OK, explain to me: Where are the flips and revives coming from? The mod? The numbers have changed frequently, and unless you think the mod revived someone purposefully, then no. Scum? Why would scum revive pro-town players? Tubby, you're full of shit.

Gonna say I have to agree.

[LimMePls]

I'm feeling this right now:

Hunt: GroupThink

We had more important things to do other days. This is long overdue.

[LimMePls]

2nd if we want to catch a role blocker then a watcher should watch you tonite and see who visits you. simply because if the unrecruiter is a true role the the cult have no choice but to try to block you tonite. so that being said either you'll have your "unrecruiter" back or we will find out who the rb is. how ever the down side to this is the watcher will have to claim tomorrow to out the rb so yah thats what i got.

Do we have any reason to even believe we have a watcher in this game? There have been multiple tracker claims, a cult unrecruiter, and a ressurector/flipper. Why on earth would we have a watcher too?

[LimMePls]

I've been going through and tinkering around with the cult mechanic, trying to make connections and speculate scumteams and what-not, and, I have to say, I'm not very good at it. What I did come up with, though, were a lot of different combinations, mostly pointless and a stretch, but all sharing one thing in common.

Spoiler: Cult Leader

Super Smash Bros. Fan, LynchMePls, Nero Cain, Ythan, Lowell

Spoiler: Cult #1

Chronopie, tubby216, TheLonging

Spoiler: Cult #2

Spyrex

It racks up to 15 combinations but they all have Spyrex in common so I'm voting Spyrex. It kind of seems like gambling to be honest, either take the 20%, 33%, or 100% chance of hitting your proposed target of scum so I chose the safest bet even if he's not the most important one.

Other than knowing I'm not CL, I think this is actually pretty interesting. I've had bad vibes from SpyreX since he replaced in, and I said so at the time. His defense of RC is telling considering RC's later cult flip. I'm buying SpyreX as cult.

Unhunt
Hunt: SpyreX

[LimMePls]

I'm feeling this right now:

Hunt: GroupThink

We had more important things to do other days. This is long overdue.

It is? I don't know what you're doing but you need to stop. You really are fond of bandwagons.

unhunt; hunt lynchmepls

I made that hunt 4 days ago, and I've since changed. Why do you feel the need to bring it up now? This is really bizarre. Add on top that it is OMGUS, and it creeps me out a bit. Just when I was starting to feel better about you too.

[LimMePls]

^^Gah!

@MOD: Can you fix those quote tags please? It should be a quote of GT quoting me. Thanks!

[LimMePls]

LynchMePls is another surprising person out of the Sawyer's bandwagon. He attacked Sawyer for a considerable amount of time Day 2 and declared that once ReaperCharlie flipped scum, he was next. The reason for not joining is understandable, thought, as he did want to make more out of Day 4.

Nice analysis. For the record I tried to throw the hammer and did a stupid Vote again instead of Hunt. Really annoying.

[LimMePls]

Chrono, please don't reply inside quote blocks, most people are gonna skip right over it.

[LimMePls]

This game is starting to make my head hurt. I think having both no flips and a cult is making the game really difficult to read. We don't know when we've lynched people what they are, and we can't be sure just because someone has appeared town that they still are. Frustrating.

I'll ISO S_B now.

[LimMePls]

Unhunt
Hunt: S_B

Yeah I'm on board. Based on the play this game could very well be the CL lurking away.

[LimMePls]

Now hunting:

Chronopie (2) SSBF, TheLonging
...
Chronopie (1) tubby

@MOD: VC has an error. Thanks!

Nothing new to comment on.

[LimMePls]

I don't believe the claim. The wagon is a go as far as I'm concerned. If someone has a better idea, I'm all ears.

[LimMePls]

^ LMP

just to humour us: You say sanity wasn't confirmed in your role PM? Or sanity wasn't mentioned at all? Really?

Is this question directed at me? I don't really understand what you are asking.

[LimMePls]

I'm calling teaparty on this whole thing. This last minute scramble is the best part.

**Puts on newbie hat** I don't understand what this means.

[LimMePls]

Wait, is it saying that Reaper Charlie was Lucifer (Cult Recruiter)? BOOYAA! Man, I wish people would listen to me. Maybe with the cult recruiter down this game will be less confusing to read.

[LimMePls]

[Spy, Nero, Lowell, GroupThink, Chro]

I'm partial to this list. In particular, I thinker Nero and GT are probably scum.

[LimMePls]

Massclaim is fine with me. Popcorn, or just everyone go?

[LimMePls]

Lmp can claim.

I am Anna Milton VT. I'm a fallen angel cast out of heaven for not listening and lack of emotions. I want to prove myself worthy. I have no powers that I am aware of and I win when all the evil in the world is vanquished.

I breadcrumbed here:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 4#p2361514

By capitalizing the AM in that sentence (Anna Milton).

I'd like GenericHydra's claim.

[LimMePls]

LynchMePls
- You're not allowed to view any angel quicktopics?

If such a thing exists I know nothing about it.

Does anyone know of a way to activate unknown abilities?

Nero Cain
- This is getting kind of boring. Why is it that KMD voted you, you expressed suspicion of KMD, but then voted me? On top of that, you've been voting me for a while without saying why.

Still reading, but I'll have more and a vote coming up soon.

[LimMePls]

@Ben: I'm not trying to be dense here, but this game has severely messed with my head. Could you please give me the "For Dummies" version of the case against Kmd?

[LimMePls]

Hunt: kmd

Alright, I'm on board.

[LimMePls]

@Benmage: What is your read of the Nero situation that they are talking about? I find it intriguing that Nero could be fake claiming VT.

[LimMePls]

I called SpyreX-scum from the moment he replaced in. I'd be really interested to see when he got turned.

[LimMePls]

But then why would he use it on you?

[LimMePls]

not to mention he has claimed the flips/revives and has proved it. That was a really bad post Lowell.

[LimMePls]

Hunt: Nero Cain

It might be time for tubby to go as well.

I agree that Lowell's post makes little sense, but what makes it scummy? This game is complicated, so it isn't out of the realm of possibility that he just got lost in all the hijinx. It looked like an actual attempt at contribution from Lowell, and we're gonna string him up over it? I don't like that wagon AT ALL.

[LimMePls]

i mean even i backed off of TL

What does this mean tubby? "even i"?

[LimMePls]

I thought we'd already dealt with this.

[LimMePls]

i mean even i backed off of TL

What does this mean tubby? "even i"?

bedause if you look back for days in a row i was the one beating the drum trying to get TL lynched. then jmj revieled his hide and I backed off.

now i have a fairely good meta read on lowell i have played alot with him and what he has shown me is that there is a better chance he is scum here then he is town thats i i decided its time for him to go.

This sudden meta find is really suspicious to me. What has he done recently that you can now see he is scum that he hasn't been doing all game? His play has been just like this the whole time.

I'm starting to think it's time for tubby to go.

[LimMePls]

@GH: Given that is his entire play, what do you make of Tubby's "I suddenly have meta reasons to think Lowell is scum that I didn't have before"? He's been playing this way all game.

[LimMePls]

I believe that was an L-1 vote everyone, just FYI.

Also Lowell wagon is terrible.

[LimMePls]

It's horrible because pretty much the entire case is that he is a lurker who isn't paying attention to the game. Well no shit, he's been that way all game. Why are we all the sudden lurker hunting? Don't we have enough information to go off to lynch people that are actually acting scummy and have scummy connections, not someone who just isn't paying attention?

Look, if you guys wanna "clean up town" by lynching a lurker who will be worthless in LYLO, I get it, but just recognize that is what you are doing. I guarantee you that scum have voted Lowell today. People were all to eager to leap on him for forgetting that TL is all but confirmed town. This doesn't make him scum though.

Tubby and Nero are the two that look bad to me. Combine it with the possibility that Nero is fake claiming VT, and I think he is a much better lynch. Tubby is pushing it though, his latest posts have been terrible.

@jmj: What do you make of Tubby's new found "meta" that says Lowell is scum? Lowell has been playing this game the same way the whole time, what exactly is Tubby basing this off of, and why didn't it apply previously to Lowell?

[LimMePls]

Go look at Open 203. He was town, and actually contributed and talked a lot more, and didn't just follow bandwagons. He attempted to scum hunt. Look at this game. He hasn't acted anything like he did in that game. After looking at more of his meta, I am fairly confident he is scum this time.

That's a fair point, but it isn't answering my question. First, I'm asking what you think of Tubby saying "I've found new meta" and second, why was that meta suddenly applicable now, when he has been playing like this the whole time?

I don't want to go too far into defending him, he could be scum. I'm just saying I think there are better lynches.

[LimMePls]

Why did you think GT's claim was legit? To me him and Lowells claims looked similar.

Cause mine is the same way. You're saying your a VT that doesn't have this wording?

[LimMePls]

Honestly, I don't know what to think, because I don't know what meta he found. As to why it suddenly applies now, he might have found it during the night or when the day started.

So we're to believe that Lowell has lurked the whole game away, and then now, all of a sudden when Lowell makes a strange statement about KL, Tubby suddenly got inspired to go meta-hunt him and found that his behavior this game is consistent with his scum meta? I don't buy it. Tubby doesn't seem that diligent to me at all. I find it much more likely that he is lying about the meta that he conveniently "found" right after Lowell's "KL may not be good for us" statement.

@Tubby: Produce said meta with an explanation for why you just now turned it up despite the fact that Lowell has been playing this way all game.

[LimMePls]

I'd much prefer a Nero Cain or tubby lynch to Lowell.

[LimMePls]

I think its awesome good posting for the most part.

Unvote
Vote: tubby

[LimMePls]

sigh... my biggest complaint with this game...

Unhunt
Hunt: tubby

[LimMePls]

I think Nero Cain is the order of the day. With so few left, I'm not throwing a vote out there yet.

[LimMePls]

Those are the only 2 players I'm ok with lynching.

[LimMePls]

SSBF: The case is simple. Of all the people who claimed VT, NC is the only one who says his role pm doesn't have words to the effect of "no abilities that you know of". Everyone else who claimed VT had words like that (paraphrasing of course), but NC doesn't. This suggests that NC isn't actually a VT like he claims. What is there not to understand? If you didn't understand this case, why not ask us to explain it yesterday when we were going over it again and again?

To be fair, one of the people pushing him on this issue was GT IIRC, who was actually a cultee, so it may mean nothing.

@Benmage: I fought the Lowell lynch yesterday because I believed there were better lynches. The fact that the game is still ongoing and the suspect pool is shrinking changes things. I'm ok with a Lowell lynch today. I'll get behind it if enough people in my "almost certainly town" pile agree to it.

As for tubby, I'm not convinced he won't flip scum. His "flip me don't revive me" could easily be a gambit. If he was scum the only chance he has is to get back into the game, so of course he'd try a gambit like that. There is no reason for scum to admit guilt in a delayed flip game, especially when there is the chance to be revived. Tubby should be flipped, and barring that, certainly not revived.

[LimMePls]

You know what guys, its time for Lowell to go. He'll lose us this game in LYLO if he is town.

Do we all agree that we could afford a mislynch now? If so, my vote is to lynch Lowell.

[LimMePls]

Hunt: Lowell

The fact that he is trying to push us to lynch TL tomorrow but is voting NC today (the only person that is a viable alternative) is massively scummy.

L-1

[LimMePls]

TL, arguing with him about it accomplishes what?

[LimMePls]

I want to forget this game every happened. GG scum team, thanks for modding farside!

I don't think I ever want to play in a delayed flip game again. Definitely not one with cult too. Way too complex. You don't get flips, and then when you do, you can't draw any conclusions because people could have their alignments change.

[LimMePls]

I kept wanting to yell at the game when I saw Benmage talk people into voting for someone else when they said the NC looked scummy.

No clue how NC didn't get lynched after he made that all VT error.

There are some players in this game who shall remain nameless who apparently have a hard time understanding simple things.

[LimMePls]

So I used my one vig shot on the person with the most votes day one because usually I don't last long in games. I wanted to aim for someone that the majority found suspicious rather than take a shot and risk killing a PR.

One of the few bright spots for town's play. I'd also say me/you calling out the cult recruiter D1 would count too, but being unable to convince people even after tracking to him to a NK makes it a big ball of fail.