Square Enix III: (Game over)
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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Hi, all. Just got my role PM, but it's like 4:30 am here and I have no idea why I'm still awake, so I'm going to post some random gibberish and go to bed.
Will read game tomorrow, in the meantime I will not object to having everyone tell me who the dirty scumbaggoes are.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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Nautilius wrote:UNVOTE, VOTE QUADZbv310 wrote:Unvote, Vote: Quadz
@Midnight, I'd probably get annoyed, then attempt to refute your arguments, leading to me looking worse and eventually getting mislynched.
FoS, FoS, FoS. F'sho.Chronopie wrote:VOTE: Quadz I'd say wtf you been smokin, but it's clearly scum-weed.
FYI, Blaze and Midnight are probably protown.
Why Chrono, specifically?bill1148 wrote:vote Chronofor being wagony.
153-155 = Chrono/KDub conneciton.
(Lawl. Midnight is on the right track, but I think it applies more if Gandalf is town, not scum.)
Yeah, that's all fine and dandy, except that Dram's reasoning is in fact complete and utter garbage. Dram is strawmanning like a champ here, and clearly misrepresenting what Gandalf said. Gandalf made a snarky, yetChronopie wrote:Thing is, Kdub defending gandalf, by way of attacking the attacker (dram), is a chainsaw defence, thus scummy. So if gandalf flips scum, Kdub is his buddy for defending him in said manner. geddit?completely appropriate, response to a silly question. There is no feasable chance that "everybody" else in the game "knows" Gandalf is scum at Page 2, so Gandalf's response of "I'd wtf at you all and be on my way" response is completely accurate.
(Lawl. Prana is on the right track. Plus points for him.)
Yeah, see, except that Dram's reasoning is in fact complete and utter garbage. Dram is strawmanning like a champ here, and clearly misrepresenting what Gandalf said. Gandalf made a snarky, yetChronopie wrote:Thing is, Kdub defending gandalf, by way of attacking the attacker (dram), is a chainsaw defence, thus scummy. So if gandalf flips scum, Kdub is his buddy for defending him in said manner. geddit?completely appropriate, response to a silly question. There is no feasable chance that "everybody" else in the game "knows" Gandalf is scum at Page 2, so Gandalf's response of "I'd wtf at you all and be on my way" response is completely accurate.
While you did not change the actual meaning of the words you posted, you took what was very clearly a JOKE of a response and tried to make it into a SERIOUS reason to find him scummy. Therein lies the strawman.dramonic wrote:A strawman would be something if I was actually misrepping what he said.
I don't believe I've misrepped him at all, so you can just stop launching the techspeak.
:goodposting:xRECKONERx wrote:It's a "Hey, bv310 is blatantly bandwagoning and parroting a weak case, man that sure does look like a scum move" kind of deals.
Not applicable here. People have in fact brought on legitimate evidence that Dram is more likely to be scum than your average player.xRECKONERx wrote:lrn2burdenofproof
Do you feel that Dramonic did not misrepresent Gandalf's tongue-in-cheek response to the "what if someone knew you were scum" question?
Even outside of your buttbuddy alliance, your defense of Dram seems questionable here.
xRECKONERx wrote:
Sounds more like "Oh shit I haven't caught up with this game yet... hmm that looks moderately scummy" and then putting a vote on it.PranaDevil wrote:Okay Reck, Dram pushed gandalf for absolutely nothing whatsoever. Was that a pro-town move?
Regardless, it caused discussion.X
This would be a reasonable response if Dram hadn't spent the better part of a page trying to defend said post. Try again, please.
This is :goodfuckingposting:, and not even something I had considered. However, much of the rest of his post is going on a lurkerhunt, which feels mostly like deflection to me.quadz08 wrote:@dram:
Why is Gandalf the only one you're pushing, then? As Devo pointed out, he's not the only one.dram wrote:Prana, I am not pushing for nothing, I am pushing Gandalf for not doing anything, I suspect it is on purpose too.
So here's what I'm getting.
A bunch of people are actively lurking, and posting very little content. There are also a couple of people (Blaze, and my predecessor Vamp) who are inactive.
Dram picks out Gandalf and goes balls to the walls without really commenting on any of the other noncontributers.
Devo picks out Quadz and goes, uh... ovaries to the walls without really commenting on any of the other noncontributers.
Quadz responds to Devo by pointing out Dram's tunnel vision and then deflecting to a whole bunch of other noncontributers by asking for content.
However, Quadz made a good point about Dram's hypocrisy, and I really like his question to Prana.
Devo comes out looking bad here, because there are a bunch of people who have been lurking, but she goes after what was already the most popular wagon of the day. It's kind of a fuel on the fire thing to me.
inHim's point is, "Why the fuck aren't you talking about most of the players in the game." Don't be a MehPlusRawr here, Chrono.Chronopie wrote:
The first is a commentary on site meta.inHimshallibe wrote:
Tone of this post with the amount of information he has given is p. scummy.Chronopie wrote:Sadly, xReckx | Fate | Ellibereth (Half of Nautilius), are what is known as the "Screaming Death Clan." There are another couple of members not in this game.
They love to make everyone else's eyes bleed.
And this looks like Appeal to Popularity.--
How about a VC Kise?
The second... Is asking for a votecount... so you're reaching just alittle, there
--
OTOH: The content / commitments / reasoning in that post of yours is... absent.
SEE FENCE. SIT DOWN.bill1148 wrote:Devo, Prana, and Fate feel pro-town. Midnight, Chrono, Kdub, dram, and bv need to be looked into.
I agree that quadz' "long" post that he gave after being called out by Devo was mostly fluff, and as such I too find him slightly suspicious. That said, I'm not quite ready to hop on the quadz wagon just yet.
Devo looks p bad to me through page whatever this is (12?). Curious to know why you're getting protown vibes from her.
Hi, can we lynch you now?Fate wrote:THE REST COMES LATER AKA
LET'S JUST LYNCH QUADZ I DUNNO IF DRAM IS SCUM WITH HIM YET.
I WAS JUST MAKING BASELESS STATEMENTS TO EASE THE TRANSITION BACK ONTO THE QUADZ WAGON.
Hi, can you stop being Fate's scumbuddy now?Chronopie wrote:Fate's just Fate.
ofc that makes him either really pro-town, or scummy mcscummerson, depending on your outlook...
Zazie's post makes my panties wet. And considering Blaze is obviously protown, Zazie clearly needs doc protected or some bullshit like that. That said, I'm going to answer one thing on behalf of Nero, because I've effectively done the exact same thing.
Suppose Player X and Player Y commit the same "scumtell." Player A makes a case against Player X for the scumtell, and there is discussion about X and yadda yadda yadda, X eventually gets lynched as town. Both Player Y and his scumtell fall largely off the radar, especially as the game continues (especially since today's MS meta involves a lot of forgetting about past cases and events), and Y never really gets attacked or suspected for having commited the same scumtell, which is just as legitimate as the case that A used to get X lynched.Zazie wrote:Nero needs to explain his vote against Devo. Because it seems to me that it comes down to disagreement about mafia theory and Devo asking only one player a question. And to both I’d like to know why that makes Devo scummy.
There is a strong A-Y scum connection here. Though Nero didn't identify who specifically he felt Devo was favoring (and I can't yet either -- there are a lot of scummish lurkers in this game), I would assume that Nero feels that Devo is going to shine the lurker light on "SUPER POPULAR BANDWAGON QUADZ," try to finish off an already popular lynch, then forget about the whole lurker thing. At least, that's how I personally feel about it.
Elli, I am super disappointed with your contributions so far. I want you to tell me who Fate's and Chrono's scumbuddies are. Thanks in advance.
Bill: Ugh. Quadz vote so bad.
RecK: Ugh. "Want to lynch for information" on D1 is fucking weaksauce, and you know it.Bigtime FoS. I'll tell you right now what the "information" is, and it's that Quadz is PROTOWN. Guarangoddamnedfuckingtee it. You are being lazy and flaily (new word) right now, and I don't like it. Get your head on straight, ignore your out-of-game wants, and lynch scums. Or die.
Nautilius wrote:hmmmmm
QUADZ MAY BE TOWN
Need have some head to head talk sessions with the other head and stuff bout that.
unvote
Thank you, Elli. That's what I was waiting for. Mega bonus plus points for you.Nautilius wrote:vote: chrono
Hi, can you stop being Chrono's scumbuddy now?Fate wrote:
ELLIE BUILD THIS WAGON UP AND I'LL HOPE OVER.Chronopie wrote:
I'm always Polite and Boring.Nautilius wrote:I'm SHEEPING my other head who said he/she/it's never seen you so POLITE AND BORING.
hypoquadztownminusallianceawesomepeopleminusmidnighttownisjustpuddingoncakeorwhateverthesayingismyspacebarisn'tbroken.
And I'm pretty sure that one, if not both heads, have seen my flip both alignments, so my behaviour is a null-tell.
ZAZIER'S POSTED LONGER THINGS THOUGH SO I GOTTA STICK WITH HIM.
HERE IS A FUN EXERCISE.
Dram, please tell me the two people you find most scummy BESIDES GANDALF. Obviously, explanations are expected.
Well that's just not nice. Now I have to decide whether the "I don't like this, but I'm not going to actually vote or do anything" attitude is an aspect of you in general, or whether it's consistent enough with Square Enix I to warrant killing you dead. "Bandwagon hopping" or not, would you care to tell us who your top few suspects are?JPSalazar wrote:At the same time, I don't feel like bandwagon hopping. I'm not convinced to throw a vote in any direction.
Mr. Kise Mod Sir:Keep KDub.
Zazie, please explain why your antagonization of Bill about his name is a protown decision. If it's alpha-male bullshit, please swallow your massive ego like a hot load and call him Bill. Thanks in advance.
This concludes my massive wall of quotes and text and stuff like that. Vote forthcoming once I've had a couple of minutes to process. It will almost certainly drop on one of {Fate, Chrono, Devo, Dram, Reck} (in no particular order).-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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Unvoteif Vamp was voting.
I guessVote: Chronopie, I like wagons that aren't Quadzwagons, and Chrono is probably a dirty scumbaggo.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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Slightly wagony, and his response to you and subsequent vote is pretty much bull. Above average chance of being scum, but certainly not on the level of Devo/Fate/Chrono.xRECKONERx wrote:FINE FINE FINE FINE FINE FINE.
I'll stop being so fucking flaily and ridiculous. I just hate D1.
I saw no explicit thoughts on bv310, Glork.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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Fair 'nuff.xRECKONERx wrote:Also:
I've seen dram-scum before. He's better than that. This just reeks of dram being too busy to give a proper fuck about this game right now.Glork wrote:Do you feel that Dramonic did not misrepresent Gandalf's tongue-in-cheek response to the "what if someone knew you were scum" question?
Scum-dram is smart and calculated and wouldn't push a weak ass case like that. I modded scum-dram in Left 4 Dead Mafia with you, Glork.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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Oh f'sho. I actually like each of them as scum individually, but Chrono's "Fate is being Fate, that makes him either super town or mega scum" is super DUPER duper :badposting:.xRECKONERx wrote:If Chrono flips scum, you like Fate for his scumbuddy?-
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EBWODP: TO ELABORATE. What really gets me is that Chrono didn't bother to give his own thoughts or opinions on whether Fate is protown or scum. He wasn't willing to stick his neck out for his scumbuddy, but his post was of a "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" nature.Glork wrote:
Oh f'sho. I actually like each of them as scum individually, but Chrono's "Fate is being Fate, that makes him either super town or mega scum" is super DUPER duper :badposting:.xRECKONERx wrote:If Chrono flips scum, you like Fate for his scumbuddy?-
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The more I read Bill's posts, the less I like him, especially his attitude towards Quadz.
Probably taking the rest of today (as in, Tuesday) off, I'm kind of having a migraine and only a triple dose of ibuprofen + Tylenol has me feeling well enough to look at a computer screen.-
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Bill: I believe I only went after Devo for singling Quadz out. If I implied otherwise, I don't think it was intended.
Devo: I was quoting and commenting on posts as I went along, so at the time I questioned your singling out Quadz, you hadn't given an explanation. That said, I still find it highly coincidental that you decided to analyze the only person who had a large, steam-powered wagon on him during the course of the day. Something does not resonate with your posts right now, and I'm trying to figure out what that is.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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Because if Dram comes in Thursday and claims a role that we absolutely will not lynch, you will certainly be the lynch of the day.Chronopie wrote:Chrono doesn't see the need to fullclaim now.
Plus, I want to see what kind of crazy fakeclaim you have concocted for us.-
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Devo: What do you think of the early Quadz wagon, the people on it, and the response after the wagon hit its peak? If you did it to get reponses, I expect a shit-ton of analysis of said responses.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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+rep :goodposting:bv310 wrote:Responding to prod. I've caught up what I'd missed, and I'd like toUnvote, Vote: Chronopie
I feel like he is scummier than Dram so far.
Vote Count:
dramonic: 7(KDub, vezokpiraka, Zazier, inHimshallbe, PranaDevil, Chronopie, Devotress)
Chronopie: 6(Glork, xRECKONERx, Fate, Midnight's Sorrow, bill1148, bv310)
JPSalazar: 2(Nautilius, Nero Cain)
Fate: 1(quadz08)
gandalf5166: 1(dramonic)
Not Voting:
JPSalazar
Lynch:
10 votes.
Deadline:
July 22nd - 11:30 PM EST
Last edited by Kise on Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:21 pm, edited 5 times in total.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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Dramonic: By my count, Dram has 7 votes and you have 6. And Dram will certainly switch to you to save his own skin.
So yeah, you need to claim. No stalling, scumbaggo.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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Oh, 8-6. Still, it's effectively 8-7, and the lynch can swing either way.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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I do love me some JP pressure.
But I'llVote: Fatefor now.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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By the way, I think it's fairly likely that at least one of {Prana, Midnight} is scum.
Vote Count:
JPSalazar: 2(vezokpiraka, xRECKONERx)
Fate: 1(Glork)
Not Voting:
bill1148
bv310
Chronopie
Fate
inHimshallibe
JPSalazar
KDub
Midnight's Sorrow
Nero Cain
PranaDevil
quadz08
Zazier
Lynch:
8 votes.
Deadline:
August 8th - 3:00 PM ESTLast edited by Kise on Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:38 am, edited 1 time in total.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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Midnight, sure. Prana, not so much. I believe I gave him plus points early in my readthrough, but was rather "meh" about him by the end of it.bill1148 wrote:
Didn't you say that both were pro-town yesterday?Glork wrote:By the way, I think it's fairly likely that at least one of {Prana, Midnight} is scum.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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Anybody in our QT should know that Elli was superduperduperprotown, which would have made him a VERY solid kill choice. It's not me or vezok (also due to QT interactions), and probably not KDub due to his continued absence. Process of elimination leaves Prana/Midnight.quadz08 wrote:
Care to 'splain?Glork wrote: By the way, I think it's fairly likely that at least one of {Prana, Midnight} is scum.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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Okay, kids, slow down.
As far as I know, Vezok does not have any magical information. He is mostly following my lead from our QT. FYI, our QT is {Glork, KDub, Vezo, Midnight, Prana, and the late Nautilius}.
N1, he directly asked me how I felt about JP. I told him that JP's general apathy towards the game and unwillingness to vote were VERY consistent with Square Enix I, in which JP was scum. I told Vezok that we should put some pressure onto JP in order to force him to make attacks and take a stand for once. I said we can't let him slide by most of the game complaining about the town without voting, like he did in SE1.
So, right out of the gates D2, Vezok goes after JP, and Reck followed him. I didn't want three votes on JP in like four posts (for once), so I sent out my tendrils elsewhere, while saying I liked the JP pressure. Fate was (and still is) on my list, and the whole Elli death thing made me wonder about Prana/Midnight. I still wonder about Prana, but Midnight somewhat less so. I already stated this, but to the people who were going "OMG GLORKRORK FLIPFLOPPORZ" yesterday, I gave Prana "plus points" very early in my readthrough of the game, but by the end of my readthrough I was very neutral about him. I even said I liked Quadz line of questioning towards Prana.
Now, last night in the QuickTopic, we hit on a few things. Here's a basic summary of what we talked about:
1) Glork recognized that Jenova was lynched at exactly HALF the regular lynch threshold. There are three likely possibilities from this.
---1a) Jenova had a permanent "ability" that required a half-lynch threshold to be lynched.Ifthis is the case, then Jenova's scumbuddies were definitely NOT on his bandwagon.
---1b) Somebody had an ability which allows certain days to have half-lynch-thresholds. This seemed fairly unlikely to me overnight, but given the mass roleblock, I think we have to consider it as a real possibility.
---1c) Somebody targeted JP specifically to have a half-lynch threshold, either for the duration of the game, or for one day. Also a reasonable possibility, I suppose.
2) KDub and I don't like inHim's play. All he's done is wagon people. I definitely think he's a good place to start looking.
3) I still don't like Fate, who, after ONE DAY was trying to use Burden of Proficiency to sluff suspicion onto me. (Technically, he used two days, but he was referring to himself as town, so that can't be taken at face value.) Fate's stance towards Quadz has been MEGABAD, his wagoning has been terribad, and his flagrant use of Burden of Proficiency on me is consistent with scums trying to take advantage of a poor start to the game to draw up suspicion on me.
4) I still don't like Bill, but my reasons for that are more gut-based than anything else. That said, I do want to ask about one of his posts just now:
I'll bite. Why does having been wrong about Devo make me necessary to "watch"?Bill wrote:Glork for suspecting Devo-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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Executioner sounds right. I'm guessing that it was probably antitown, as I don't see a protown player using it that early in D2.-
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Vote: Fate, I like parity.
I'll read up on Prana and try to summarize my precise thoughts on him later, I honestly just don't feel like doing it right now.-
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This man needs serious dead right now.Fate wrote:I'm pretty sure a
Vote: Bvworks right about now.
Already told Chrono and Reck in the QT what I thought/cared about the lynch yesterday. Speculation is pretty fail lets just lynch scumzorz.
Explain, especially given Vezok's claim and behavior regarding his role.Fate wrote:DOWN FOR A VEZOK WAGON ALSO
Reck: CAPS LAWK aside, how do you feel about Fate's play so far?
Seriously, every post he has made has been terribad. Nonsensical wagoning, burden of proficiency, nonsensical attitude towards Vezok. His "suspicions" are completely fabricated.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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And FYI, Chrono couldn't be more backwards in this game. 3/4 of his lynch pool is very obviously protown, and the strongman (if that's what we're calling the Executioner half-lynch thingy) is very much NOT town-aligned.-
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Chronopie wrote:Also process of elimination. Chances are that there wasn't more than one scum per neighbourhood QT. Ours was JP. (Also why you made the town list. Initially.)INCORRECT ASSUPMTION
Go read your the first post in your fucking neighbrhood QT, and you'll see that Kise clearly indicates that neighborhoods were RANDOMLY DETERMINED. The alignment of a dead person has ZERO bearing on how likely (or unlikely) the remaining people in your neighborhood are to be town or scum.
For a claimed mason, you are playing remarkably horribly. I don't often doubt mason claims, but you're damned sure doing your best here. Ugh. Get your shit in gear, Chrono, or you're going to lead the town in the completely wrong direction.-
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Chronopie wrote:Town
Chrono
Reck
Fate
Quadz
Prana
VezoChronopie wrote:I'd be up for that. I guess. But the neighbourhood is going to get real quiet. wait, what am I saying, it has Reck and Fate.
UNVOTE: BV
VOTE: Quadz
Vote Count:
bv310: 2(vezokpiraka, Midnight's Sorrow)
bill1148: 2(Zazier, Fate)
PranaDevil: 1(xRECKONERx)
inHimshallibe: 1(KDub)
Fate: 1(Glork)
Midnight's Sorrow: 1(bill1148)
quadz08: 1(Chronopie)
Not Voting:
bv310
inHimshallibe
PranaDevil
quadz08
Lynch:
7 votes.
Deadline:
August 11th - 3:00 AM ESTLast edited by Kise on Thu Jul 29, 2010 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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Oh, gotcha. I got my terminology mixed up.
Now please explain why you called Quadz protown, made a "lynch list" and said that nobody should be voting out of that list, and thenVOTED OUT OF THAT LIST FOUR POSTS LATER.-
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No, I don't "geddit." You're trying to have your cake and eat it too.Chronopie wrote:^yes I know I had Quadz on my town list, then proceeded to vote him. Did you read the posts between?
Also, given how you're protesting that the Neighbourhoods are randomly assigned, it's plausible that Quadz is scum, seeing as the only reason he made the town list was because JP got ganked, and he shares my Neighbourhood. geddit?
"Quadz is on my protown list because he is in our neighborhood. Fate and Reck are on my town list because they're in my neighborhood, too. But I'm okay lynching Quadz even though he's on my protown list, but don't want people applying pressure to Fate."
As far as your "lynch list" goes, I really want more pressure on inHim, and have already stated that I'm not a fan of Bill so far. Beyond that, there are definitely better scum candidates than any of the other five people on your "lynch list."-
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Okay, I'm going to ask you point blank, and I want specific quotes from this thread and/or your QT.
What has Fate said and done to make you believe he is probaby protown?-
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You're using Burden of Proof incorrectly.Fate wrote:ALSO THE BURDEN OF PROOF ALWAYS LIES ON THE PROSECUTOR. THIS AINT RUSSIA GLORK.
If I ask Player X to prove that Player X himself is protown, then I'm guilty of Burden of Proof.
If Player Y says "Player X is definitely protown," I have every right to ask Player Y what evidence he sees that Player X is protown (especially when I have cited in-game evidence that points to Player X being less town).
Chrono, have you given ANY consideration to the potential overpoweredness of a sane cop in a mod-confirmed masonry?
How many people are in your masonry? Are all of them mod-confirmed to be innocent?
How far into "clearing this neighborhood" are you?
This is :goodposting:.PranaDevil wrote:
I highly doubt Glork would be asking who the cop is, nor would anyone else, I mean there's role fishing and there's "sweet fucking christ you've just killed the town cop". But I honestly don't know why you revealed that info, has it benefitted anyone in the game outside of scum? Not really no. You've also announced that you have no clue, really, if anyone on your town list is actually town or not when you went and voted Quadz, so where the hell are you going with stuff?Chronopie wrote:I have a masonry. My masonry has a cop. We started clearing one neighbourhood at a time. Do not ask who the cop is, I will not tell you.
So what is it Chrono? Are you scum trying to confuse the hell out of town, or are you a town mason who just threw together some random lists for the sake of it to try and get scum to kill from the wrong list? Because as it stands you're actions are getting a little jumpy for my liking.
Chrono has been very self-contradictory, and he's trying to shove "SHUT THE FUCK UP AND LISTEN TO ME" down our throats, when much of his posting doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. At best, he's just not thinking things through and jumping very readily to conclusions. At worst, he's misleading scum who gambited with a D1 mason claim.
Honestly, I'm starting to suspect the latter, but not enough to want to push Chrono off the bridge yet. Scum with a Scumbuddy Cop sounds pretty appropriate here.-
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Unvote, Vote: inHim
Get your sexy kester in here and find me some scums, inHim.-
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No, I believe you've been told to SATBYP. Stop And Think Before You Post.Chronopie wrote:I've been told. in no uncertain terms, to STFU.
So don't expect any more from me today.
Now, please answer my three questions to you.-
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Strongly disagree.bill1148 wrote:What? How much someone talks in the neighborhood is irrelevant.
Proeductive Neighborhood talk is a distinct protown sign, IMO. A town's best tool is daytalk, and nighttalk (even in a neighborhood) is merely an extension of that.-
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Okay, glancing over the game, there is one glaringly bad observation I've made that is going to cost us dearly if it continues.
A disturbingly high majority of the players in this game are way to wagony without sufficient reason.
When you vote, I expect you to explain why you are voting -- ESPECIALLY if you're going to pile onto a wagon. Later on today or tomorrow, I'm going to run through the thread and note every unreasoned ("yeah, he's scummy" does not suffice) bandwagon vote. I'd wager that the biggest tally = 90% likely to be scum.
I don't give a flying fuck about Chrono's mason's supposed innocent result on Fate, he has contributed ZERO to the benefit of the town and needs to die. STRONGLY suggest somebody vig his ass dead tonight. If Chrono is lying, or his "mason cop" isn't sane or Fate is a godfather, I'm going to look like a goddamned fucking genius. If Fate's protown, meh, he still hasn't contributed anything worthwhile, and that would probably cost us the game in endgame.
Plus, if Fate is regular scum, then it basically confirms that Chrono is a lying sack of shit.
You know what? Fuck vigging.Unvote, Vote: Fate-
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Ugh. Fine.
Can you please tell Fate to stop being really terrible at this game, though? He might actually listen to you, because he seems to just ignore me.
Unvote-
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I'm going to refrain from voting for now, because I really want to take some time to look at these big, sweeping wagons. There are definitely slacker scums who are going around wagoning people, and they're the people I'd like to root out first.
As I've stated before, I'm a little undecided on Chrono. The strategist in me really WANTS to believe his mason claim, but I feel that his play has been inconsistent and overall kind of poor. Due to several recent games in which I've been pinpoint accurate but watched towns blow easily winnable games (L4D, AGTM, Umineko to name three off the top of my head), the buttface in me wants to say "no, give me the reigns." So I'm not sure.
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I do agree with you that, if we can decide on a few VERYOBVTOWN players, we can probably get some kind of forceful voting bloc. There are, however, two issues with this:
1) If there are two scumgroups, I wouldn't put much faith in "obvtown." Everybody who I feel HAS contributed so far (including both you and me, Reck) are easily capable of legitimately hunting the other team to make themselves look very protown.
2) If there's only one scumgroup, and we are all protown, we're basically telling the scums who to kill... which may or may not backfire.
I do think that, if we can get Fate to make legit contributions and actually look for scum himself, we can probably get a VERY good read on who else is "probable town" and who else is "probable scum." So with that respect, yes. I do like the idea of putting more weight on the "SUPER LIKELY PROTOWN" players, rather than the shameless bandwagoners who aren't doing jack shit.
Also, we need to add Vezo to the "No Lynch" list. He's very obviously protown.
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One thing I do believe:
If Chrono really is a mason, and he really does have a mod-confirmed masonbuddycop, then two things need to happen. First, Chrono and said cop need to breadcrumb hints about one another if they haven't already. Chrono needs to bury his buddy's name in some undetectable fashion, then tell his buddy tonight how to decipher it. His buddy should then do the same, so that we'll know that there isn't a scumbag just making up bullshit like "Chrono's idea was to do the first letter of the third word and the fourth letter of the seventh word and the last letter of the third word and...."
Secondly, Chrono should be claiming the cop's results daily, and the doctor(s) should be choosing protections among THOSE PEOPLE. This is a GREAT advantage over the traditional "cop claims his targets, but the doc has to protect the cop" pitfall. If the scums kill Chrono, then our cop is still active and can still investigate. The cop keeps their results close at hand, and continues business as usual.-
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Oh, and to answer your question about Quadz, I'm basically going to paraphrase what I said in my QT Night 1:
It's not so much that Quadz is oozing town, but his wagon was oozing opportunistic scum.
With two deaths N1 and the possibility of there being two scumgroups, Quadz is not nearly as high on my town list as he was before, although I still really hate most of the wagon that built up on him. I suppose I could be persuaded that he's scum, but my knee-jerk reaction to D1 was "wow, this is a terrible wagon with a butt-ton of scums."-
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Are Chrono, Fate, Reck, and Quadz the only people left in that neighborhood? If that's the case, then yes, that'd be fantastic.... ESPECIALLY if Fate and/or Quadz have been investigated innocent.xRECKONERx wrote:Glork - what if Chrono outed his mason buddies to me, Fate, and quadz in our QT. Then, we can do a few things:
1) We know that if one of them turns up dead out of nowhere, that one of me/Fate/quadz is the reason.
2) Chrono cannot fakeclaim mason with his scumbuddies later on in the game and will be forced to stick with his claim from tonight onwards.
3) Sort of forms a semi-larger-mason group if the masoncop investigates/clears me/Fate/quadz, then we essentially have a six person mason group that scum will HAVE to get rid of, and there's no way they're going to kill SIX people before endgame.-
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Yes, I absolutely stated that your play has been so horrendously awful that if there were a time to distrust an investigation, it would be in this specific instance. How it follows from that statement that I am scum is unclear.
I still maintain that a mod-confirmed sane cop in a masonry is EXTREMELY POWERFUL. Because it is. I am having a pretty difficult time believing what Chrono has said about his masonry. (In fact, I think it's more likely that Fate/Chrono are masonbuddies than Chrono is a masonbuddy with someone else who has an innocent investigation on Fate. In this instance, I do not believe that Fate would likely be a cop.)
I backed off of you this afternoon because I trust that Reck is decently likely to be protown, and I am 100% certain that his ability to read your alignment is far better than my own. So yeah, I wanted you dead but for like the second time, Reck was like "dude, Glork, he's seriously not the play." And I trust that, because I want to make sure we lynch scum, not just idiots. That is a natrual, logical, and very protown progression.
I would assume that Reck has a better read on me because he's actually familiar with my gameplay. When I have any remote success as scum (LRCM 2.0, Space Monkey, CT: 1), I am meticulous and planning, and often have focused attacks. I've stated before (currently ongoing game, but I died as protown) that a careless, sloppy, or flaily Glork is a protown Glork, and that meta has been shown to be accurate time and time again.
The reason for this is VERY simple, and it's something I've maintained throughout most of my mafia career: My posts in games are very heavily scrutinized -- ALL THE TIME. When I'm town, I typically do a pretty good job of pointing the town in the right direction (if not leading them to victory outright). When I'm scum, I can pretty much make towns fall into line by busing somebody, catching scum on the other team, outing the SK, pretty much whatever, because I know that I'm being scrutinized.I am forced to be careful when scum, because I can't afford undue suspicion, but when I'm town, I am sometimes genuinely sloppy -- especially in early days.
So no, your insinuation that I've been sloppy and inconsistent actuallypoints to a Glorktown meta instead of a Glorkscum meta
Next, to address your "THEN HE UNVOTED WITHOUT VOTING ANYONE ELSE" point, I've already explained that. I want to take some time to examine the large wagons and see who is bullshitting their way through this game without trying to find scum. EVERY large game nowadays has at least one or two scumbags who pike through most of the game then make endgame a living hell for bad or inexperienced players. AND IT NEVER FUCKING CHANGES. Do you know why? Because lazy and stupid people would rather look at one glaring error and go "X IS OBVIOUSLY SCUM" or read someone else's posts and go "I'M TOO FUCKING LAZY TO DO ANY WORK SO I WILL JUST BANDWAGON" rather than rooting around in the shadows and actually doing any fucking LEGWORK to help win. I truly and deeply believe that mafia today is more of a crapshoot than it ever has been, but bad players seem to be okay with this, so it doesn't change.
Finally, I'm not really sure where you got "power role directing" from. I think the closest I got was saying "Chrono should claim his cop buddy's results" which still has no downside, because we get results and the cop's identity is still protected. (Incidentally, that's one of the main reasons WHY masoncopbuddies are overpowered.)-
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EBWOP: Oh, and I didn't vote inHim for lurking. In SE1, he made like maybe five posts in the entire two days he was alive, but I left him well alone because I could tell that he was protown. inHim not saying much has very little to do with why I pressured him, because I know that's par for the course. The reason I voted inHim is because, from what Ihaveseen, I have a somewhat scummy read on him. If you'd been paying attention, Fate, you'd know that I already posted "KDub and I don't like inHim" from our QT discussion.
There, I think that covers anything.-
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Read what I said and try again. What I posted is BASIC MAFIA STRATEGY.
Masons should ALWAYS bury their buddies' names in a hidden but confirmable manner. That is the most fundamental advantage of masonhood.
Secondly, confirmation of multiple innocents is not a bad thing in this scenario, because the scums almost certainly cannot keep up with us. There are like four excellent kill targets already, and if the strongman is a protown vig, we're on the gravy train to victory by doing little more than strategically eliminating the people who are doing the least (aka, lurkers and bandwagoners). Don't even try to bullshit me with "claiming results is bad," because you probably know that the scums would target among Chrono, vezo, or Reck anyway. We already know that vezo has claimed power, and Chrono has claimed confirmed masons with a power role, so diluting the kill pool with additional unknown roles actually makes the scums' life more difficult.-
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Oh, the whole protect among those people. Yeah, that part was pretty retarded, and I take it back.
Vote Count:
bill1148: 5(Zazier, Midnight's Sorrow, PranaDevil, inHimshallibe, vezokpiraka)
inHimshallibe: 2(KDub, bv310)
PranaDevil: 1(xRECKONERx)
Midnight's Sorrow: 1(bill1148)
quadz08: 1(Chronopie)
Glork: 1(Fate)
Not Voting:
Glork
quadz08
Lynch:
7 votes.
Deadline:
August 11th - 3:00 AM ESTLast edited by Kise on Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.-
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What exactly am I stalling for? I've contributed more than 90% of the people in this game as is, and you've done plenty to keep me occupied last night and this afternoon. I believe are less than 24 hours from when I said I wanted to read the thread. Your "let me make a focused case on Glork knowing that he will respond, and then accuse him of stalling" tactic won't work on me. Sorry, sport.Fate wrote:BTW the more time you take to read the game and find actual scum now that you can't lynch me the MOAR scummy you are.
STALLL-
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Okay, first to answer Vezo from our QT:
The reason I said that scums would not want to crosskill last night is extremely simple -- it's the numbers game. In three days, the town had lynched two scums. Even with two nightkills one night, that put us well head in the numbers game. Crosskilling last night would only have put the scums in an even DEEPER hole, because not only would scums be dead by lynch, but they'd be killing each other off while we just chilled the fuck out and picked out the last ones.
As things stand now, even with two protown deaths, there are probably 2 Geostigma, 2 Mitochondrial, and 6 town. 2 members of your own faction is not very much. But if you can get the town working on lynching one group while killing off spare townies, a scumgroup could feasibly win in two days, EVEN IF WE LYNCH SCUMS TODAY AND TOMORROW. (Incidentally, that's why I hate 2-scumgroup setups. Most of them are entirely too dependent upon when/if/howmany crosskills there are. No town should ever lynch four scums in 5 days and still lose.)
Now, wagon analysisisisisis.
First big wagon was on Quadz. It capped out at around 7 votes, I believe:
Fate,inHimshallibe,Nautilius, bv310,Devotress, xRECKONERx, Midnight's Sorrow
This wagon is surprisingly town-driven, though inHim falls in at that key #3 spot (Reck was actually second on the wagon, but unvoted and revoted). BV, whose alignment is unknown (but who has basically skated by so far) is in at #5. Reck is probably protown, and Midnight... I'm not sure. I keep getting mixed signals from Midnight.
After that, we got hit with a Dram counterwagon. Prana was in a key position on this, as was BV. Possible Quadz/Prana or Quadz/BV connections noted. PRana/BV were #3 and #4 on the Dramwagon. Quick triplevote on BV from {Devo, Midnight, Fate} went nowhere, before Dram picked up steam again (courtesy of Fate and gandalf/Vezo).
Fate/Reck/Midnight/Chrono all move to Quadz, putting him ahead of Dram 7-4.
Zazie in for Blaze, and immediately goes after Dram. Then Midnight back to Dram (oh god the flipfloppery), Fate to Dram, Prana to Reck (because Reck was anti-Quadz and pro-Dram... VERY weird Post 293, Bill to Quadz. BV to Dram, inHim sheeps Zazie onto Dram (*major alarms*).
My own posting D1 was pretty shitty, except that I was right about a massive Chrono/Fate connection. Unfortunately, Fate was being retarded, and Chrono wasn't much better so I took it and ran in the COMPLETELY WRONG DIRECTION. :/
I will, however, readily answer any
Bill jumps from Quadz to Chrono.... then deadline approaches, and Dram takes the fall.
So, Quadz is kind of a questionmark in that he may very well be scum... but the end-of-day rival wagons were both on protown players. If Quadz is scum, then his scumbuddies will be found largely off-wagon (or in a late busing position) but readily willing to switch to Dram and/or Chrono. But I'm still not that convinced that Quadz is scum. IDK, I'd have to isolate his posts or something.
IFQuadz is scum, then he's almost certainly on the OTHER team from inHim. inHim was in a prime "scum pile onto wagon" position. I could see any one of a few people being Quadz' scumbuddy, but Zazie stands out most. After a very reasonable entrance into the game, Zazie has been SUPERDUPERLURKERSCUM. Regardless of Quadz' alignment, I'd like to see buttloads of pressure on Zazie today.
Also, I could definitely see BV being scum (probably buddies with inHim) after D1. Bad place on the Quadzwagon, bad move onto Reck, and jumped to Chrono without a care in the world.
D2 coming up in just a bit.-
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Not much to say about D2.
Vezo tries to vote JP but fails miserably at reading/spelling comprehension
Reck onto JP
Glork supports JP pressure, but votes Fate
Bill onto BV
Nero and Quadz onto Fate. (Note that if Quadz is scum, it would almost certainly be buddies with JP... possible connection here.)
Glork, Reck, BV onto Prana (but Reck didn't unvote, so he's still on JP)
Chrono to Midngith, Fate to Quadz, Zazie to Bill
Vezo ACTUALLY votes JP.
inHim votes JP, uses execution, JP is lynched
UGH. There's almost NOTHING we can get out of here. Nobody on JP's group knew that he would be lynched so quickly, because inHim (OTHER scumgroup) was the Executioner. The only connection I could feasibly see would be that Quadz piled onto Fate after JP got some early pressure in the day. *MAYBE* BV following Glork/Reck onto Prana... but there's not much here. It's *POSSIBLE* that Vezo an inHim block-voted JP to get the quicklynch, but I highly doubt it (partly because it's a hideously obvious tactic, and partly because of Vezo's claimed role ability).-
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RECK: Was information shared (I don't want to know WHAT information, just a yes/no would be fine) in your QT that would lead you to believe that Quadz would definitely want to take out the entire rest of the QT? I feel like I should follow you, because you're acting like you understand something that the rest of us can't, but there are a few people I kind of want dead today.
Vote Count:
quadz08: 1(xRECKONERx)
Not Voting:
bill1148
bv310
Glork
KDub
Midnight's Sorrow
PranaDevil
quadz08
vezokpiraka
ZazieR
Lynch:
6 votes.
Deadline:
August 17th - 11:30 PM ESTLast edited by Kise on Tue Aug 03, 2010 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.-
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EBWOQP:
Added underlined. My habit of trying to post like 30 thoughts at once and then forgetting to finish a sentence continues.Glork wrote:My own posting D1 was pretty shitty, except that I was right about a massive Chrono/Fate connection. Unfortunately, Fate was being retarded, and Chrono wasn't much better so I took it and ran in the COMPLETELY WRONG DIRECTION. :/
I will, however, readily answer anyquestions about how I felt about Chrono/Fate.-
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Why exactly are you suspicious of Quadz?vezokpiraka wrote:Quadz bandwagon. YAY. It was supposed to happen sometime soon. Glad it happens now.
unvote
Vote Quadz-
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Meh. Quadz, go ahead and claim. You're at Lynch-2 right now.-
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Two things.vezokpiraka wrote:It's just weird. He posts that which could easilly be a scum slip and Fate dies. Fate who had a big case on Glork. It's pretty obvious that Fate would have investigate Glork tonight.
First, Fate had decided to follow Reck's lead and believe that I'm protown. Look at these two posts:xRECKONERx wrote:Fate, Glork isn't scum.
What does this say to you, if not "Glork is playing shitty but fine, I'll take your word that he's not scum."Fate wrote:Reck he's tellin everyone who to protect and shit.
That shit ain't right.
Unvote:
Vote: Inhim
It just ain't fuckin right.
BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
After Gears of War mafia, lurkers get the rope.
Secondly, Fate flipped JUGGERNAUT, not some kind of cop role. Fate was the strongarm Vigilante, genius. He didn't have an invesetigative role.
Now, as far as the alleged "scum slip." FUCKING GO BACK AND READ WHAT I POSTEDWITH FULL CONTEXT.
Glork in QT wrote:I also don't like the way Quadz seemed to be licking my nuts at end of day. Truth be told, Fate is a little bit right to be upset with me, because I've said some short-sighted and hasty things. My play has not been very good from a strategic perspective, and while my inklings on inHim and JP were right, I never pushed either of them as hard as I probably should have.
I think that outside of people who know me well enough to meta me as town, there probably should be some reasonable doubt on my alignment. Meh, whatevs. It means I probably won't be nightkilled, because I don't think the scums want to crosskill at this time.Vezo in QT wrote:"It means I probably won't be nightkilled, because I don't think the scums want to crosskill at this time."-Glork
What the fuck is this Glork. You are admitting you are in a scum group?
I wasn't crystal clear articulate in the sentence you picked out and decide was a "slip," but if you look at the context, it should have been VERY clear that I was talking about "Glork is really suspect right now ---> Scums don't want to crosskill ---> Scums probably won't kill Glork." Learn some fucking READING COMPREHENSION before you decide what is or isn't a "slip."Glork in QT wrote:Vezo: No, I'm saying thatif someone in a scumgroup thinks I'm scum, they won't be inclined to "crosskill" me.That sentence was made in the context of "people seem to think that I'm decently scummy right now, so I'm probably a bad nightkill choice because scums wouldn't want to kill someone who they think is scum." The funky working was due to it being 3am.-
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Anywho, based on Reck's last post, I'd be content to lynch Quadz.-
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It's almost certainly 3:3:12. Balance dictates that it is such. There seem to be a bunch of vanilla townies, with most (if not all) of the power condnesed into the masonry.xRECKONERx wrote:Glork, assuming we have a 3:3:12 setup, where does that put us with potential nightkills?
I can do a best case scenario, but I can't figure out all options from here.
BEST CASE SCENARIO, we lynch Scum A today, scum kill each other tonight, we lynch Scum B tomorrow, and scum kill each other off again N5.
Also, are we all content to agree that it's 3:3:12 because Kise wouldn't be stupid enough to make it 4:4:10?
4:4:10, given we already have four dead Vanillas, would be completely unreasonable, IMO. 2:2:12 is possible, but less likely than 3:3:12.
So, if we assume 3:3:12, then right now we're looking at:
2:2:6
1) Supposing we lynch Mitochondrial (arbitrary) today, two nightkills on townies would put us at 2:1:4 tomorrow. Lynch the other Mito tomorrow, we could feasibly be at 3:2. Silly to think you're still in LyLo if you lynch 4 out of 5 days correctly, but that'd be the case.
2) Supposing we lynch Mitochondrial today and 2 nighktills on townies, tomorrow is 2:1:4. If we lynch Geostigma tomorrow, two nighktills on townies could put us in a 1:1:2 prisoner's dilemma. Again, that's 4 out of 5 correct lynches and we'd be in a practially unwinnable situation.
2) Supposing we MISLYNCH today, two nighktills on townies would put us at 2:2:3 tomorrow -- also practically unwinnable.
Basically, we have ZERO margin for error in this game unless the scums crosskill. And even then, the scums could still very well win if we lynch correctly.
Now, if we lynch a scum, the last remaining member of that faction basically HAS to try to crosskill to survive. So that might give us a tiny bit of wiggle room. Just like I said back in SquareEnix 1, the last thing that any scumgroup should want to do is wind up in that Prisoner's Dilemma, where the game is a complete crapshoot. Because two townies died last night, the scums have little margin for error as well. If they continue killing off townies, they'll end up in a "who shoots whom" situation, and scums can't really have much control over that kind of scenario, because they cannot predict who the other team will shoot.
Bottom line: We need to try to lynch scum today.
If we lynch scum today, the last scumbag of that faction MUST try to crosskill to survive.
If we lynch town today, BOTH scumgroups should be trying to crosskill to avoid a 2:2:3 crapshoot.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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Yeah, that's one thing I don't get at all. Honestly, as poorly as I've played, the masons didn't play very well either. Chrono claimed that a confirmed masonbuddy of his investigated another confirmed masonbuddy of his as innocent, which makes ZERO sense.xRECKONERx wrote:Also, I'm wondering if we even had a cop at all. Chrono claimed the masons cleared Fate via investigation, but he was a mason all along.
As soon as I pointed out the obvious Fate/Chrono connection and voted Chrono, Reck joined me, andFATE JUMPED THE WAGON ONTO HIS OWN MASONBUDDY. Seriously,who the fuck DOES that?
What would REALLY piss me off is if I were about Chrono lying about his masonry. I obviously entertained the idea, as shown in the first two paragraphs of this post, but I couldn't bring myself to believe that "confirmed masons" would investigate each other, or that they would VOTE EACH OTHER.
Fate (since I know you're reading this from the green room)... you want to know why I thought you/Chrono were scum? Because you were fucking PLAYING LIKE IT, doing retarded shit that NO COMPETENT MASONS SHOULD EVER DO.
Rant off.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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So, Reck, do you think there was a cop in the masongroup? Because I'm kind of starting to doubt it. The worst thing we could have is a scum popping in and fakeclaiming to be the MasonCop, and the only remaining member of the masonry.
That said, if last night QuadzScumdidthink that he would be investigated with Chrono revealing the result, then OF COURSE he would want to kill off Chrono. Quadz is definitely the play today, but I wantEVERYONEto pop in and weigh in on a bunch of matters:
QUESTIONS THAT EVERYONE NEEDS TO PROVIDE INPUT ON:
1) What do you think of the masonry? Is there a Mason Cop out there? Could there be additional masons out there?
2) What do you think of Quadz? Specifically,WHYdo you think he is town or scum?
3) What do you think of the numbers game? Are we at 2:2:6? 3:3:4? 1:1:8? Why do you think we have the current setup, and what do you think we need to do to bring home the victory?
4) Who are your top suspects at this exact moment? Which scumgroup do you think those players are in? Why do you suspect those players?-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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Context is important here. Fate had just finished making a very focused case on me, in which he said something like "This is fucking happening." He had his sights set very squarely on me. Reck came in and made one very simple statment: "Glork isn't scum," and Fate went "fffiiiiiiiine." I don't think Fate thought I was lessquadz08 wrote:As to this question: "What does this say to you, if not 'Glork is playing shitty but fine, I'll take your word that he's not scum.'" Nowhere in there does Fate imply he thinks you're any less scummy than you were. In fact, he continues to say that what you were doing was "not fuckin' right." What it says to me is "I think Glork is scummy, but nobody else agrees, and I've had experience with lurkerscum before, so inHim seems to be a good vote, too."
Of course, Fate would have put in more CAPS LAWKE and cuss words, but you get my drift.scummy, but he definitely fell into line behind Reck, who asserted that I am notscum. Being scummy and being scum are EXTREMELY different things. In fact, it's exactly why most mislynches happen.
This post = sheepy sheep sheep into a fencsitting position. It's scumtasterrific.Quadz wrote:Third: How was I "licking your nuts," exactly? By saying you've been playing pro-town? My bad. Perhaps the rest of my post (inspired by this last post of yours) will put your mind at ease.
Huh? Vezo was all "GLORK KILLED FATE B/C FATE WAS A MASON COP." My response was a combination of "No, Fate took Reck's word that I'm probably not scum" and "he wasn't a mason cop anyway, he was a Mason Juggernaut."Quadz wrote:The 2nd part is just a strange response. Why didn't you just tell him that we didn't know Fate was a mason, and therefore could not have guessed he was the supposed cop? His flip doesn't matter either way in this circumstance. Not scummy in and of itself, but it feels like his reasoning is off, and he's stretching for answers.
I'm not going to lie and say that I didn't know Fate was a mason, because that was a possibility in the very back of my mind. (Like I said, I posted about that already, and just linked to that post a few minutes ago.) But in no way did I think that Fate was a cop. If Glorkscum were trying to kill a Cop, he would most certainly NOT have gone shot Fate.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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Actually, something just occurred to me that I forgot about.
Vezo could uberblock everyone. With Fate's flip, I think it's pretty safe to say that he vigged Nero (?!?). So if we lynch scum today, and Vezo is able to massblock, we could actually go into tomorrow with 2:1:6, which would be much more bearable.
Still, we CANNOT control who the scums kill, only point out when they have to croskill to survive. Right now we have to focus entirely on lynching scums, and evidence points to Quadz trying to save his own ass.
I'm starting to get some of my swagger back. Looking back at some shit (mainly the whole Fate/Chrono thing), I feel like I'm not playing as poorly as I initially thought. Yeah, I was wrong on Devo. But I knew that something was wrong about Chrono/Fate, and as it turns out Chrono was probably lying out his ass about having a Mason Cop. I was right on JP, but never got a chance to jump that wagon because it ended via inHim. I was right about inHim, too, but never got to jump that wagon b/c I was out of the house and it ended very suddenly. Now that the Fate/Chrono issue is behind me, I think I've got a much clearer head and can probably kick this game's ass from here on out.
And yeah, we need some fucking modprods on bitches and hos. I believe Bill, Zazie, KDub, and BV have yet to post today. KDub is the least scummy of the four, IMO, but I could definitely see any of the other three being poopy dumbdumb lurkerscums.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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Bill, Zazie, Quadz, and either Prana or BV.
Those are probably your four remaining scums. If Quadz flips scum, I will consider the outside possibilty that Reck is scum. Midnight seems ok enough, KDub is kind of a wild card. I don't strongly dislike any of his posts, but he has been REALLY quiet, which brings me back to SquareEnix 1 and makes me worry a bit.
KDub, if you're town, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE contriute more. I want to know who you think the scummmsssss are.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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