Square Enix III: (Game over)

[Glork]

Hi, all. Just got my role PM, but it's like 4:30 am here and I have no idea why I'm still awake, so I'm going to post some random gibberish and go to bed.

Will read game tomorrow, in the meantime I will not object to having everyone tell me who the dirty scumbaggoes are.

[Glork]

UNVOTE, VOTE QUADZ

Unvote, Vote: Quadz

@Midnight, I'd probably get annoyed, then attempt to refute your arguments, leading to me looking worse and eventually getting mislynched.

VOTE: Quadz I'd say wtf you been smokin, but it's clearly scum-weed.

FoS, FoS, FoS. F'sho.

FYI, Blaze and Midnight are probably protown.

vote Chrono

for being wagony.

Why Chrono, specifically?

153-155 = Chrono/KDub conneciton.
(Lawl. Midnight is on the right track, but I think it applies more if Gandalf is town, not scum.)

Thing is, Kdub defending gandalf, by way of attacking the attacker (dram), is a chainsaw defence, thus scummy. So if gandalf flips scum, Kdub is his buddy for defending him in said manner. geddit?

Yeah, that's all fine and dandy, except that Dram's reasoning is in fact complete and utter garbage. Dram is strawmanning like a champ here, and clearly misrepresenting what Gandalf said. Gandalf made a snarky, yet

completely appropriate

, response to a silly question. There is no feasable chance that "everybody" else in the game "knows" Gandalf is scum at Page 2, so Gandalf's response of "I'd wtf at you all and be on my way" response is completely accurate.
(Lawl. Prana is on the right track. Plus points for him.)

Thing is, Kdub defending gandalf, by way of attacking the attacker (dram), is a chainsaw defence, thus scummy. So if gandalf flips scum, Kdub is his buddy for defending him in said manner. geddit?

Yeah, see, except that Dram's reasoning is in fact complete and utter garbage. Dram is strawmanning like a champ here, and clearly misrepresenting what Gandalf said. Gandalf made a snarky, yet

completely appropriate

, response to a silly question. There is no feasable chance that "everybody" else in the game "knows" Gandalf is scum at Page 2, so Gandalf's response of "I'd wtf at you all and be on my way" response is completely accurate.

A strawman would be something if I was actually misrepping what he said.
I don't believe I've misrepped him at all, so you can just stop launching the techspeak.

While you did not change the actual meaning of the words you posted, you took what was very clearly a JOKE of a response and tried to make it into a SERIOUS reason to find him scummy. Therein lies the strawman.

It's a "Hey, bv310 is blatantly bandwagoning and parroting a weak case, man that sure does look like a scum move" kind of deals.

:goodposting:

lrn2burdenofproof

Not applicable here. People have in fact brought on legitimate evidence that Dram is more likely to be scum than your average player.
Do you feel that Dramonic did not misrepresent Gandalf's tongue-in-cheek response to the "what if someone knew you were scum" question?
Even outside of your buttbuddy alliance, your defense of Dram seems questionable here.

Okay Reck, Dram pushed gandalf for absolutely nothing whatsoever. Was that a pro-town move?

Sounds more like "Oh shit I haven't caught up with this game yet... hmm that looks moderately scummy" and then putting a vote on it.
Regardless, it caused discussion.

X

This would be a reasonable response if Dram hadn't spent the better part of a page trying to defend said post. Try again, please.

@dram:

Prana, I am not pushing for nothing, I am pushing Gandalf for not doing anything, I suspect it is on purpose too.

Why is Gandalf the only one you're pushing, then? As Devo pointed out, he's not the only one.

This is :goodfuckingposting:, and not even something I had considered. However, much of the rest of his post is going on a lurkerhunt, which feels mostly like deflection to me.

So here's what I'm getting.

A bunch of people are actively lurking, and posting very little content. There are also a couple of people (Blaze, and my predecessor Vamp) who are inactive.
Dram picks out Gandalf and goes balls to the walls without really commenting on any of the other noncontributers.
Devo picks out Quadz and goes, uh... ovaries to the walls without really commenting on any of the other noncontributers.
Quadz responds to Devo by pointing out Dram's tunnel vision and then deflecting to a whole bunch of other noncontributers by asking for content.

However, Quadz made a good point about Dram's hypocrisy, and I really like his question to Prana.

Devo comes out looking bad here, because there are a bunch of people who have been lurking, but she goes after what was already the most popular wagon of the day. It's kind of a fuel on the fire thing to me.

Sadly, xReckx | Fate | Ellibereth (Half of Nautilius), are what is known as the "Screaming Death Clan." There are another couple of members not in this game.

They love to make everyone else's eyes bleed.

Tone of this post with the amount of information he has given is p. scummy.

--

How about a VC Kise?

And this looks like Appeal to Popularity.

The first is a commentary on site meta.

The second... Is asking for a votecount... so you're reaching just a

little

, there

--

OTOH: The content / commitments / reasoning in that post of yours is... absent.

inHim's point is, "Why the fuck aren't you talking about most of the players in the game." Don't be a MehPlusRawr here, Chrono.

Devo, Prana, and Fate feel pro-town. Midnight, Chrono, Kdub, dram, and bv need to be looked into.

I agree that quadz' "long" post that he gave after being called out by Devo was mostly fluff, and as such I too find him slightly suspicious. That said, I'm not quite ready to hop on the quadz wagon just yet.

SEE FENCE. SIT DOWN.

Devo looks p bad to me through page whatever this is (12?). Curious to know why you're getting protown vibes from her.

THE REST COMES LATER AKA

LET'S JUST LYNCH QUADZ I DUNNO IF DRAM IS SCUM WITH HIM YET.

I WAS JUST MAKING BASELESS STATEMENTS TO EASE THE TRANSITION BACK ONTO THE QUADZ WAGON.

Hi, can we lynch you now?

Fate's just Fate.

ofc that makes him either really pro-town, or scummy mcscummerson, depending on your outlook...

Hi, can you stop being Fate's scumbuddy now?


Zazie's post makes my panties wet. And considering Blaze is obviously protown, Zazie clearly needs doc protected or some bullshit like that. That said, I'm going to answer one thing on behalf of Nero, because I've effectively done the exact same thing.

Nero needs to explain his vote against Devo. Because it seems to me that it comes down to disagreement about mafia theory and Devo asking only one player a question. And to both I’d like to know why that makes Devo scummy.

Suppose Player X and Player Y commit the same "scumtell." Player A makes a case against Player X for the scumtell, and there is discussion about X and yadda yadda yadda, X eventually gets lynched as town. Both Player Y and his scumtell fall largely off the radar, especially as the game continues (especially since today's MS meta involves a lot of forgetting about past cases and events), and Y never really gets attacked or suspected for having commited the same scumtell, which is just as legitimate as the case that A used to get X lynched.
There is a strong A-Y scum connection here. Though Nero didn't identify who specifically he felt Devo was favoring (and I can't yet either -- there are a lot of scummish lurkers in this game), I would assume that Nero feels that Devo is going to shine the lurker light on "SUPER POPULAR BANDWAGON QUADZ," try to finish off an already popular lynch, then forget about the whole lurker thing. At least, that's how I personally feel about it.

Elli, I am super disappointed with your contributions so far. I want you to tell me who Fate's and Chrono's scumbuddies are. Thanks in advance.

Bill: Ugh. Quadz vote so bad.

RecK: Ugh. "Want to lynch for information" on D1 is fucking weaksauce, and you know it.

Bigtime FoS

. I'll tell you right now what the "information" is, and it's that Quadz is PROTOWN. Guarangoddamnedfuckingtee it. You are being lazy and flaily (new word) right now, and I don't like it. Get your head on straight, ignore your out-of-game wants, and lynch scums. Or die.

hmmmmm
QUADZ MAY BE TOWN
Need have some head to head talk sessions with the other head and stuff bout that.

unvote

vote: chrono

Thank you, Elli. That's what I was waiting for. Mega bonus plus points for you.

I'm SHEEPING my other head who said he/she/it's never seen you so POLITE AND BORING.
hypoquadztownminusallianceawesomepeopleminusmidnighttownisjustpuddingoncakeorwhateverthesayingismyspacebarisn'tbroken.

I'm always Polite and Boring.

And I'm pretty sure that one, if not both heads, have seen my flip both alignments, so my behaviour is a null-tell.

ELLIE BUILD THIS WAGON UP AND I'LL HOPE OVER.

ZAZIER'S POSTED LONGER THINGS THOUGH SO I GOTTA STICK WITH HIM.

Hi, can you stop being Chrono's scumbuddy now?


HERE IS A FUN EXERCISE.
Dram, please tell me the two people you find most scummy BESIDES GANDALF. Obviously, explanations are expected.

At the same time, I don't feel like bandwagon hopping. I'm not convinced to throw a vote in any direction.

Well that's just not nice. Now I have to decide whether the "I don't like this, but I'm not going to actually vote or do anything" attitude is an aspect of you in general, or whether it's consistent enough with Square Enix I to warrant killing you dead. "Bandwagon hopping" or not, would you care to tell us who your top few suspects are?

Mr. Kise Mod Sir:

Keep KDub.

Zazie, please explain why your antagonization of Bill about his name is a protown decision. If it's alpha-male bullshit, please swallow your massive ego like a hot load and call him Bill. Thanks in advance.



This concludes my massive wall of quotes and text and stuff like that. Vote forthcoming once I've had a couple of minutes to process. It will almost certainly drop on one of {Fate, Chrono, Devo, Dram, Reck} (in no particular order).

[Glork]

Unvote

if Vamp was voting.

I guess

Vote: Chronopie

, I like wagons that aren't Quadzwagons, and Chrono is probably a dirty scumbaggo.

[Glork]

FINE FINE FINE FINE FINE FINE.

I'll stop being so fucking flaily and ridiculous. I just hate D1.
I saw no explicit thoughts on bv310, Glork.

Slightly wagony, and his response to you and subsequent vote is pretty much bull. Above average chance of being scum, but certainly not on the level of Devo/Fate/Chrono.

[Glork]

Also:

Do you feel that Dramonic did not misrepresent Gandalf's tongue-in-cheek response to the "what if someone knew you were scum" question?

I've seen dram-scum before. He's better than that. This just reeks of dram being too busy to give a proper fuck about this game right now.
Scum-dram is smart and calculated and wouldn't push a weak ass case like that. I modded scum-dram in Left 4 Dead Mafia with you, Glork.

Fair 'nuff.

[Glork]

If Chrono flips scum, you like Fate for his scumbuddy?

Oh f'sho. I actually like each of them as scum individually, but Chrono's "Fate is being Fate, that makes him either super town or mega scum" is super DUPER duper :badposting:.

[Glork]

If Chrono flips scum, you like Fate for his scumbuddy?

Oh f'sho. I actually like each of them as scum individually, but Chrono's "Fate is being Fate, that makes him either super town or mega scum" is super DUPER duper :badposting:.

EBWODP: TO ELABORATE. What really gets me is that Chrono didn't bother to give his own thoughts or opinions on whether Fate is protown or scum. He wasn't willing to stick his neck out for his scumbuddy, but his post was of a "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" nature.

[Glork]

The more I read Bill's posts, the less I like him, especially his attitude towards Quadz.


Probably taking the rest of today (as in, Tuesday) off, I'm kind of having a migraine and only a triple dose of ibuprofen + Tylenol has me feeling well enough to look at a computer screen.

[Glork]

Bill: I believe I only went after Devo for singling Quadz out. If I implied otherwise, I don't think it was intended.

Devo: I was quoting and commenting on posts as I went along, so at the time I questioned your singling out Quadz, you hadn't given an explanation. That said, I still find it highly coincidental that you decided to analyze the only person who had a large, steam-powered wagon on him during the course of the day. Something does not resonate with your posts right now, and I'm trying to figure out what that is.

[Glork]

i demand that both Chrono and Dram full claim. Now.

[Glork]

Chrono doesn't see the need to fullclaim now.

Because if Dram comes in Thursday and claims a role that we absolutely will not lynch, you will certainly be the lynch of the day.


Plus, I want to see what kind of crazy fakeclaim you have concocted for us.

[Glork]

Devo: What do you think of the early Quadz wagon, the people on it, and the response after the wagon hit its peak? If you did it to get reponses, I expect a shit-ton of analysis of said responses.

[Glork]

Responding to prod. I've caught up what I'd missed, and I'd like to

Unvote, Vote: Chronopie

I feel like he is scummier than Dram so far.

+rep :goodposting:

---

Vote Count:

dramonic: 7

(KDub, vezokpiraka, Zazier, inHimshallbe, PranaDevil, Chronopie, Devotress)

Chronopie: 6

(Glork, xRECKONERx, Fate, Midnight's Sorrow, bill1148, bv310)

JPSalazar: 2

(Nautilius, Nero Cain)

Fate: 1

(quadz08)

gandalf5166: 1

(dramonic)

Not Voting:

JPSalazar

Lynch:

10 votes.

Deadline:

July 22nd - 11:30 PM EST

[Glork]

Dramonic: By my count, Dram has 7 votes and you have 6. And Dram will certainly switch to you to save his own skin.

So yeah, you need to claim. No stalling, scumbaggo.

[Glork]

Oh, 8-6. Still, it's effectively 8-7, and the lynch can swing either way.

[Glork]

I do love me some JP pressure.


But I'll

Vote: Fate

for now.

[Glork]

By the way, I think it's fairly likely that at least one of {Prana, Midnight} is scum.

---

Vote Count:

JPSalazar: 2

(vezokpiraka, xRECKONERx)

Fate: 1

(Glork)

Not Voting:

bill1148
bv310
Chronopie
Fate
inHimshallibe
JPSalazar
KDub
Midnight's Sorrow
Nero Cain
PranaDevil
quadz08
Zazier

Lynch:

8 votes.

Deadline:

August 8th - 3:00 PM EST

[Glork]

By the way, I think it's fairly likely that at least one of {Prana, Midnight} is scum.

Didn't you say that both were pro-town yesterday?

Midnight, sure. Prana, not so much. I believe I gave him plus points early in my readthrough, but was rather "meh" about him by the end of it.

[Glork]

By the way, I think it's fairly likely that at least one of {Prana, Midnight} is scum.

Care to 'splain?

Anybody in our QT should know that Elli was superduperduperprotown, which would have made him a VERY solid kill choice. It's not me or vezok (also due to QT interactions), and probably not KDub due to his continued absence. Process of elimination leaves Prana/Midnight.

[Glork]

Unvote, Vote: Prana

[Glork]

Okay, kids, slow down.

As far as I know, Vezok does not have any magical information. He is mostly following my lead from our QT. FYI, our QT is {Glork, KDub, Vezo, Midnight, Prana, and the late Nautilius}.

N1, he directly asked me how I felt about JP. I told him that JP's general apathy towards the game and unwillingness to vote were VERY consistent with Square Enix I, in which JP was scum. I told Vezok that we should put some pressure onto JP in order to force him to make attacks and take a stand for once. I said we can't let him slide by most of the game complaining about the town without voting, like he did in SE1.

So, right out of the gates D2, Vezok goes after JP, and Reck followed him. I didn't want three votes on JP in like four posts (for once), so I sent out my tendrils elsewhere, while saying I liked the JP pressure. Fate was (and still is) on my list, and the whole Elli death thing made me wonder about Prana/Midnight. I still wonder about Prana, but Midnight somewhat less so. I already stated this, but to the people who were going "OMG GLORKRORK FLIPFLOPPORZ" yesterday, I gave Prana "plus points" very early in my readthrough of the game, but by the end of my readthrough I was very neutral about him. I even said I liked Quadz line of questioning towards Prana.

Now, last night in the QuickTopic, we hit on a few things. Here's a basic summary of what we talked about:
1) Glork recognized that Jenova was lynched at exactly HALF the regular lynch threshold. There are three likely possibilities from this.
---1a) Jenova had a permanent "ability" that required a half-lynch threshold to be lynched.

If

this is the case, then Jenova's scumbuddies were definitely NOT on his bandwagon.
---1b) Somebody had an ability which allows certain days to have half-lynch-thresholds. This seemed fairly unlikely to me overnight, but given the mass roleblock, I think we have to consider it as a real possibility.
---1c) Somebody targeted JP specifically to have a half-lynch threshold, either for the duration of the game, or for one day. Also a reasonable possibility, I suppose.

2) KDub and I don't like inHim's play. All he's done is wagon people. I definitely think he's a good place to start looking.

3) I still don't like Fate, who, after ONE DAY was trying to use Burden of Proficiency to sluff suspicion onto me. (Technically, he used two days, but he was referring to himself as town, so that can't be taken at face value.) Fate's stance towards Quadz has been MEGABAD, his wagoning has been terribad, and his flagrant use of Burden of Proficiency on me is consistent with scums trying to take advantage of a poor start to the game to draw up suspicion on me.

4) I still don't like Bill, but my reasons for that are more gut-based than anything else. That said, I do want to ask about one of his posts just now:

Glork for suspecting Devo

I'll bite. Why does having been wrong about Devo make me necessary to "watch"?

[Glork]

Executioner sounds right. I'm guessing that it was probably antitown, as I don't see a protown player using it that early in D2.

[Glork]

Vote: Fate

, I like parity.

I'll read up on Prana and try to summarize my precise thoughts on him later, I honestly just don't feel like doing it right now.

[Glork]

I'm pretty sure a

Vote: Bv

works right about now.

Already told Chrono and Reck in the QT what I thought/cared about the lynch yesterday. Speculation is pretty fail lets just lynch scumzorz.

This man needs serious dead right now.

DOWN FOR A VEZOK WAGON ALSO

Explain, especially given Vezok's claim and behavior regarding his role.



Reck: CAPS LAWK aside, how do you feel about Fate's play so far?

Seriously, every post he has made has been terribad. Nonsensical wagoning, burden of proficiency, nonsensical attitude towards Vezok. His "suspicions" are completely fabricated.

[Glork]

And FYI, Chrono couldn't be more backwards in this game. 3/4 of his lynch pool is very obviously protown, and the strongman (if that's what we're calling the Executioner half-lynch thingy) is very much NOT town-aligned.

[Glork]

EBWOP: Mehhh, 2/3. I rounded too far up.

[Glork]

Also process of elimination. Chances are that there wasn't more than one scum per neighbourhood QT. Ours was JP. (Also why you made the town list. Initially.)

INCORRECT ASSUPMTION

Go read your the first post in your fucking neighbrhood QT, and you'll see that Kise clearly indicates that neighborhoods were RANDOMLY DETERMINED. The alignment of a dead person has ZERO bearing on how likely (or unlikely) the remaining people in your neighborhood are to be town or scum.

For a claimed mason, you are playing remarkably horribly. I don't often doubt mason claims, but you're damned sure doing your best here. Ugh. Get your shit in gear, Chrono, or you're going to lead the town in the completely wrong direction.

[Glork]

Town

Chrono
Reck
Fate
Quadz
Prana
Vezo

I'd be up for that. I guess. But the neighbourhood is going to get real quiet. wait, what am I saying, it has Reck and Fate.

UNVOTE: BV
VOTE: Quadz

---

Vote Count:

bv310: 2

(vezokpiraka, Midnight's Sorrow)

bill1148: 2

(Zazier, Fate)

PranaDevil: 1

(xRECKONERx)

inHimshallibe: 1

(KDub)

Fate: 1

(Glork)

Midnight's Sorrow: 1

(bill1148)

quadz08: 1

(Chronopie)

Not Voting:

bv310
inHimshallibe
PranaDevil
quadz08

Lynch:

7 votes.

Deadline:

August 11th - 3:00 AM EST

[Glork]

Oh, gotcha. I got my terminology mixed up.


Now please explain why you called Quadz protown, made a "lynch list" and said that nobody should be voting out of that list, and then

VOTED OUT OF THAT LIST FOUR POSTS LATER

.

[Glork]

^yes I know I had Quadz on my town list, then proceeded to vote him. Did you read the posts between?

Also, given how you're protesting that the Neighbourhoods are randomly assigned, it's plausible that Quadz is scum, seeing as the only reason he made the town list was because JP got ganked, and he shares my Neighbourhood. geddit?

No, I don't "geddit." You're trying to have your cake and eat it too.

"Quadz is on my protown list because he is in our neighborhood. Fate and Reck are on my town list because they're in my neighborhood, too. But I'm okay lynching Quadz even though he's on my protown list, but don't want people applying pressure to Fate."



As far as your "lynch list" goes, I really want more pressure on inHim, and have already stated that I'm not a fan of Bill so far. Beyond that, there are definitely better scum candidates than any of the other five people on your "lynch list."

[Glork]

Okay, I'm going to ask you point blank, and I want specific quotes from this thread and/or your QT.

What has Fate said and done to make you believe he is probaby protown?

[Glork]

ALSO THE BURDEN OF PROOF ALWAYS LIES ON THE PROSECUTOR. THIS AINT RUSSIA GLORK.

You're using Burden of Proof incorrectly.

If I ask Player X to prove that Player X himself is protown, then I'm guilty of Burden of Proof.
If Player Y says "Player X is definitely protown," I have every right to ask Player Y what evidence he sees that Player X is protown (especially when I have cited in-game evidence that points to Player X being less town).




Chrono, have you given ANY consideration to the potential overpoweredness of a sane cop in a mod-confirmed masonry?
How many people are in your masonry? Are all of them mod-confirmed to be innocent?
How far into "clearing this neighborhood" are you?

I have a masonry. My masonry has a cop. We started clearing one neighbourhood at a time. Do not ask who the cop is, I will not tell you.

I highly doubt Glork would be asking who the cop is, nor would anyone else, I mean there's role fishing and there's "sweet fucking christ you've just killed the town cop". But I honestly don't know why you revealed that info, has it benefitted anyone in the game outside of scum? Not really no. You've also announced that you have no clue, really, if anyone on your town list is actually town or not when you went and voted Quadz, so where the hell are you going with stuff?

So what is it Chrono? Are you scum trying to confuse the hell out of town, or are you a town mason who just threw together some random lists for the sake of it to try and get scum to kill from the wrong list? Because as it stands you're actions are getting a little jumpy for my liking.

This is :goodposting:.

Chrono has been very self-contradictory, and he's trying to shove "SHUT THE FUCK UP AND LISTEN TO ME" down our throats, when much of his posting doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. At best, he's just not thinking things through and jumping very readily to conclusions. At worst, he's misleading scum who gambited with a D1 mason claim.

Honestly, I'm starting to suspect the latter, but not enough to want to push Chrono off the bridge yet. Scum with a Scumbuddy Cop sounds pretty appropriate here.

[Glork]

Unvote, Vote: inHim

Get your sexy kester in here and find me some scums, inHim.

[Glork]

I've been told. in no uncertain terms, to STFU.

So don't expect any more from me today.

No, I believe you've been told to SATBYP. Stop And Think Before You Post.

Now, please answer my three questions to you.

[Glork]

What? How much someone talks in the neighborhood is irrelevant.

Strongly disagree.

Proeductive Neighborhood talk is a distinct protown sign, IMO. A town's best tool is daytalk, and nighttalk (even in a neighborhood) is merely an extension of that.

[Glork]

Okay, glancing over the game, there is one glaringly bad observation I've made that is going to cost us dearly if it continues.

A disturbingly high majority of the players in this game are way to wagony without sufficient reason.

When you vote, I expect you to explain why you are voting -- ESPECIALLY if you're going to pile onto a wagon. Later on today or tomorrow, I'm going to run through the thread and note every unreasoned ("yeah, he's scummy" does not suffice) bandwagon vote. I'd wager that the biggest tally = 90% likely to be scum.



I don't give a flying fuck about Chrono's mason's supposed innocent result on Fate, he has contributed ZERO to the benefit of the town and needs to die. STRONGLY suggest somebody vig his ass dead tonight. If Chrono is lying, or his "mason cop" isn't sane or Fate is a godfather, I'm going to look like a goddamned fucking genius. If Fate's protown, meh, he still hasn't contributed anything worthwhile, and that would probably cost us the game in endgame.
Plus, if Fate is regular scum, then it basically confirms that Chrono is a lying sack of shit.

You know what? Fuck vigging.

Unvote, Vote: Fate

[Glork]

EBWOP: Way TOO wagony. Stupid grammar.

[Glork]

Ugh. Fine.

Can you please tell Fate to stop being really terrible at this game, though? He might actually listen to you, because he seems to just ignore me.

Unvote

[Glork]

I'm going to refrain from voting for now, because I really want to take some time to look at these big, sweeping wagons. There are definitely slacker scums who are going around wagoning people, and they're the people I'd like to root out first.

As I've stated before, I'm a little undecided on Chrono. The strategist in me really WANTS to believe his mason claim, but I feel that his play has been inconsistent and overall kind of poor. Due to several recent games in which I've been pinpoint accurate but watched towns blow easily winnable games (L4D, AGTM, Umineko to name three off the top of my head), the buttface in me wants to say "no, give me the reigns." So I'm not sure.

---------------------------------

I do agree with you that, if we can decide on a few VERYOBVTOWN players, we can probably get some kind of forceful voting bloc. There are, however, two issues with this:
1) If there are two scumgroups, I wouldn't put much faith in "obvtown." Everybody who I feel HAS contributed so far (including both you and me, Reck) are easily capable of legitimately hunting the other team to make themselves look very protown.
2) If there's only one scumgroup, and we are all protown, we're basically telling the scums who to kill... which may or may not backfire.

I do think that, if we can get Fate to make legit contributions and actually look for scum himself, we can probably get a VERY good read on who else is "probable town" and who else is "probable scum." So with that respect, yes. I do like the idea of putting more weight on the "SUPER LIKELY PROTOWN" players, rather than the shameless bandwagoners who aren't doing jack shit.
Also, we need to add Vezo to the "No Lynch" list. He's very obviously protown.

----------------------------------

One thing I do believe:
If Chrono really is a mason, and he really does have a mod-confirmed masonbuddycop, then two things need to happen. First, Chrono and said cop need to breadcrumb hints about one another if they haven't already. Chrono needs to bury his buddy's name in some undetectable fashion, then tell his buddy tonight how to decipher it. His buddy should then do the same, so that we'll know that there isn't a scumbag just making up bullshit like "Chrono's idea was to do the first letter of the third word and the fourth letter of the seventh word and the last letter of the third word and...."

Secondly, Chrono should be claiming the cop's results daily, and the doctor(s) should be choosing protections among THOSE PEOPLE. This is a GREAT advantage over the traditional "cop claims his targets, but the doc has to protect the cop" pitfall. If the scums kill Chrono, then our cop is still active and can still investigate. The cop keeps their results close at hand, and continues business as usual.

[Glork]

Oh, and to answer your question about Quadz, I'm basically going to paraphrase what I said in my QT Night 1:
It's not so much that Quadz is oozing town, but his wagon was oozing opportunistic scum.

With two deaths N1 and the possibility of there being two scumgroups, Quadz is not nearly as high on my town list as he was before, although I still really hate most of the wagon that built up on him. I suppose I could be persuaded that he's scum, but my knee-jerk reaction to D1 was "wow, this is a terrible wagon with a butt-ton of scums."

[Glork]

Glork - what if Chrono outed his mason buddies to me, Fate, and quadz in our QT. Then, we can do a few things:

1) We know that if one of them turns up dead out of nowhere, that one of me/Fate/quadz is the reason.

2) Chrono cannot fakeclaim mason with his scumbuddies later on in the game and will be forced to stick with his claim from tonight onwards.

3) Sort of forms a semi-larger-mason group if the masoncop investigates/clears me/Fate/quadz, then we essentially have a six person mason group that scum will HAVE to get rid of, and there's no way they're going to kill SIX people before endgame.

Are Chrono, Fate, Reck, and Quadz the only people left in that neighborhood? If that's the case, then yes, that'd be fantastic.... ESPECIALLY if Fate and/or Quadz have been investigated innocent.

[Glork]

Yes, I absolutely stated that your play has been so horrendously awful that if there were a time to distrust an investigation, it would be in this specific instance. How it follows from that statement that I am scum is unclear.

I still maintain that a mod-confirmed sane cop in a masonry is EXTREMELY POWERFUL. Because it is. I am having a pretty difficult time believing what Chrono has said about his masonry. (In fact, I think it's more likely that Fate/Chrono are masonbuddies than Chrono is a masonbuddy with someone else who has an innocent investigation on Fate. In this instance, I do not believe that Fate would likely be a cop.)

I backed off of you this afternoon because I trust that Reck is decently likely to be protown, and I am 100% certain that his ability to read your alignment is far better than my own. So yeah, I wanted you dead but for like the second time, Reck was like "dude, Glork, he's seriously not the play." And I trust that, because I want to make sure we lynch scum, not just idiots. That is a natrual, logical, and very protown progression.

I would assume that Reck has a better read on me because he's actually familiar with my gameplay. When I have any remote success as scum (LRCM 2.0, Space Monkey, CT: 1), I am meticulous and planning, and often have focused attacks. I've stated before (currently ongoing game, but I died as protown) that a careless, sloppy, or flaily Glork is a protown Glork, and that meta has been shown to be accurate time and time again.

The reason for this is VERY simple, and it's something I've maintained throughout most of my mafia career: My posts in games are very heavily scrutinized -- ALL THE TIME. When I'm town, I typically do a pretty good job of pointing the town in the right direction (if not leading them to victory outright). When I'm scum, I can pretty much make towns fall into line by busing somebody, catching scum on the other team, outing the SK, pretty much whatever, because I know that I'm being scrutinized.

I am forced to be careful when scum, because I can't afford undue suspicion, but when I'm town, I am sometimes genuinely sloppy -- especially in early days.

So no, your insinuation that I've been sloppy and inconsistent actually

points to a Glorktown meta instead of a Glorkscum meta

Next, to address your "THEN HE UNVOTED WITHOUT VOTING ANYONE ELSE" point, I've already explained that. I want to take some time to examine the large wagons and see who is bullshitting their way through this game without trying to find scum. EVERY large game nowadays has at least one or two scumbags who pike through most of the game then make endgame a living hell for bad or inexperienced players. AND IT NEVER FUCKING CHANGES. Do you know why? Because lazy and stupid people would rather look at one glaring error and go "X IS OBVIOUSLY SCUM" or read someone else's posts and go "I'M TOO FUCKING LAZY TO DO ANY WORK SO I WILL JUST BANDWAGON" rather than rooting around in the shadows and actually doing any fucking LEGWORK to help win. I truly and deeply believe that mafia today is more of a crapshoot than it ever has been, but bad players seem to be okay with this, so it doesn't change.

Finally, I'm not really sure where you got "power role directing" from. I think the closest I got was saying "Chrono should claim his cop buddy's results" which still has no downside, because we get results and the cop's identity is still protected. (Incidentally, that's one of the main reasons WHY masoncopbuddies are overpowered.)

[Glork]

EBWOP: Oh, and I didn't vote inHim for lurking. In SE1, he made like maybe five posts in the entire two days he was alive, but I left him well alone because I could tell that he was protown. inHim not saying much has very little to do with why I pressured him, because I know that's par for the course. The reason I voted inHim is because, from what I

have

seen, I have a somewhat scummy read on him. If you'd been paying attention, Fate, you'd know that I already posted "KDub and I don't like inHim" from our QT discussion.

There, I think that covers anything.

[Glork]

Read what I said and try again. What I posted is BASIC MAFIA STRATEGY.

Masons should ALWAYS bury their buddies' names in a hidden but confirmable manner. That is the most fundamental advantage of masonhood.

Secondly, confirmation of multiple innocents is not a bad thing in this scenario, because the scums almost certainly cannot keep up with us. There are like four excellent kill targets already, and if the strongman is a protown vig, we're on the gravy train to victory by doing little more than strategically eliminating the people who are doing the least (aka, lurkers and bandwagoners). Don't even try to bullshit me with "claiming results is bad," because you probably know that the scums would target among Chrono, vezo, or Reck anyway. We already know that vezo has claimed power, and Chrono has claimed confirmed masons with a power role, so diluting the kill pool with additional unknown roles actually makes the scums' life more difficult.

[Glork]

Oh, the whole protect among those people. Yeah, that part was pretty retarded, and I take it back.

---

Vote Count:

bill1148: 5

(Zazier, Midnight's Sorrow, PranaDevil, inHimshallibe, vezokpiraka)

inHimshallibe: 2

(KDub, bv310)

PranaDevil: 1

(xRECKONERx)

Midnight's Sorrow: 1

(bill1148)

quadz08: 1

(Chronopie)

Glork: 1

(Fate)

Not Voting:

Glork
quadz08

Lynch:

7 votes.

Deadline:

August 11th - 3:00 AM EST

[Glork]

BTW the more time you take to read the game and find actual scum now that you can't lynch me the MOAR scummy you are.

STALLL

What exactly am I stalling for? I've contributed more than 90% of the people in this game as is, and you've done plenty to keep me occupied last night and this afternoon. I believe are less than 24 hours from when I said I wanted to read the thread. Your "let me make a focused case on Glork knowing that he will respond, and then accuse him of stalling" tactic won't work on me. Sorry, sport.

[Glork]

Okay, first to answer Vezo from our QT:
The reason I said that scums would not want to crosskill last night is extremely simple -- it's the numbers game. In three days, the town had lynched two scums. Even with two nightkills one night, that put us well head in the numbers game. Crosskilling last night would only have put the scums in an even DEEPER hole, because not only would scums be dead by lynch, but they'd be killing each other off while we just chilled the fuck out and picked out the last ones.

As things stand now, even with two protown deaths, there are probably 2 Geostigma, 2 Mitochondrial, and 6 town. 2 members of your own faction is not very much. But if you can get the town working on lynching one group while killing off spare townies, a scumgroup could feasibly win in two days, EVEN IF WE LYNCH SCUMS TODAY AND TOMORROW. (Incidentally, that's why I hate 2-scumgroup setups. Most of them are entirely too dependent upon when/if/howmany crosskills there are. No town should ever lynch four scums in 5 days and still lose.)



Now, wagon analysisisisisis.

First big wagon was on Quadz. It capped out at around 7 votes, I believe:

Fate

,

inHimshallibe

,

Nautilius

, bv310,

Devotress

, xRECKONERx, Midnight's Sorrow

This wagon is surprisingly town-driven, though inHim falls in at that key #3 spot (Reck was actually second on the wagon, but unvoted and revoted). BV, whose alignment is unknown (but who has basically skated by so far) is in at #5. Reck is probably protown, and Midnight... I'm not sure. I keep getting mixed signals from Midnight.

After that, we got hit with a Dram counterwagon. Prana was in a key position on this, as was BV. Possible Quadz/Prana or Quadz/BV connections noted. PRana/BV were #3 and #4 on the Dramwagon. Quick triplevote on BV from {Devo, Midnight, Fate} went nowhere, before Dram picked up steam again (courtesy of Fate and gandalf/Vezo).

Fate/Reck/Midnight/Chrono all move to Quadz, putting him ahead of Dram 7-4.

Zazie in for Blaze, and immediately goes after Dram. Then Midnight back to Dram (oh god the flipfloppery), Fate to Dram, Prana to Reck (because Reck was anti-Quadz and pro-Dram... VERY weird Post 293, Bill to Quadz. BV to Dram, inHim sheeps Zazie onto Dram (*major alarms*).


My own posting D1 was pretty shitty, except that I was right about a massive Chrono/Fate connection. Unfortunately, Fate was being retarded, and Chrono wasn't much better so I took it and ran in the COMPLETELY WRONG DIRECTION. :/
I will, however, readily answer any

Bill jumps from Quadz to Chrono.... then deadline approaches, and Dram takes the fall.

So, Quadz is kind of a questionmark in that he may very well be scum... but the end-of-day rival wagons were both on protown players. If Quadz is scum, then his scumbuddies will be found largely off-wagon (or in a late busing position) but readily willing to switch to Dram and/or Chrono. But I'm still not that convinced that Quadz is scum. IDK, I'd have to isolate his posts or something.

IF

Quadz is scum, then he's almost certainly on the OTHER team from inHim. inHim was in a prime "scum pile onto wagon" position. I could see any one of a few people being Quadz' scumbuddy, but Zazie stands out most. After a very reasonable entrance into the game, Zazie has been SUPERDUPERLURKERSCUM. Regardless of Quadz' alignment, I'd like to see buttloads of pressure on Zazie today.
Also, I could definitely see BV being scum (probably buddies with inHim) after D1. Bad place on the Quadzwagon, bad move onto Reck, and jumped to Chrono without a care in the world.


D2 coming up in just a bit.

[Glork]

Not much to say about D2.

Vezo tries to vote JP but fails miserably at reading/spelling comprehension
Reck onto JP
Glork supports JP pressure, but votes Fate
Bill onto BV
Nero and Quadz onto Fate. (Note that if Quadz is scum, it would almost certainly be buddies with JP... possible connection here.)
Glork, Reck, BV onto Prana (but Reck didn't unvote, so he's still on JP)
Chrono to Midngith, Fate to Quadz, Zazie to Bill
Vezo ACTUALLY votes JP.
inHim votes JP, uses execution, JP is lynched


UGH. There's almost NOTHING we can get out of here. Nobody on JP's group knew that he would be lynched so quickly, because inHim (OTHER scumgroup) was the Executioner. The only connection I could feasibly see would be that Quadz piled onto Fate after JP got some early pressure in the day. *MAYBE* BV following Glork/Reck onto Prana... but there's not much here. It's *POSSIBLE* that Vezo an inHim block-voted JP to get the quicklynch, but I highly doubt it (partly because it's a hideously obvious tactic, and partly because of Vezo's claimed role ability).

[Glork]

RECK: Was information shared (I don't want to know WHAT information, just a yes/no would be fine) in your QT that would lead you to believe that Quadz would definitely want to take out the entire rest of the QT? I feel like I should follow you, because you're acting like you understand something that the rest of us can't, but there are a few people I kind of want dead today.

---

Vote Count:

quadz08: 1

(xRECKONERx)

Not Voting:

bill1148
bv310
Glork
KDub
Midnight's Sorrow
PranaDevil
quadz08
vezokpiraka
ZazieR

Lynch:

6 votes.

Deadline:

August 17th - 11:30 PM EST

[Glork]

EBWOQP:

My own posting D1 was pretty shitty, except that I was right about a massive Chrono/Fate connection. Unfortunately, Fate was being retarded, and Chrono wasn't much better so I took it and ran in the COMPLETELY WRONG DIRECTION. :/
I will, however, readily answer any

questions about how I felt about Chrono/Fate

.

Added underlined. My habit of trying to post like 30 thoughts at once and then forgetting to finish a sentence continues.

[Glork]

Quadz bandwagon. YAY. It was supposed to happen sometime soon. Glad it happens now.

unvote
Vote Quadz

Why exactly are you suspicious of Quadz?

[Glork]

Meh. Quadz, go ahead and claim. You're at Lynch-2 right now.

[Glork]

It's just weird. He posts that which could easilly be a scum slip and Fate dies. Fate who had a big case on Glork. It's pretty obvious that Fate would have investigate Glork tonight.

Two things.

First, Fate had decided to follow Reck's lead and believe that I'm protown. Look at these two posts:

Fate, Glork isn't scum.

Reck he's tellin everyone who to protect and shit.

That shit ain't right.

Unvote:
Vote: Inhim

It just ain't fuckin right.

BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

After Gears of War mafia, lurkers get the rope.

What does this say to you, if not "Glork is playing shitty but fine, I'll take your word that he's not scum."

Secondly, Fate flipped JUGGERNAUT, not some kind of cop role. Fate was the strongarm Vigilante, genius. He didn't have an invesetigative role.



Now, as far as the alleged "scum slip." FUCKING GO BACK AND READ WHAT I POSTED

WITH FULL CONTEXT

.

I also don't like the way Quadz seemed to be licking my nuts at end of day. Truth be told, Fate is a little bit right to be upset with me, because I've said some short-sighted and hasty things. My play has not been very good from a strategic perspective, and while my inklings on inHim and JP were right, I never pushed either of them as hard as I probably should have.

I think that outside of people who know me well enough to meta me as town, there probably should be some reasonable doubt on my alignment. Meh, whatevs. It means I probably won't be nightkilled, because I don't think the scums want to crosskill at this time.

"It means I probably won't be nightkilled, because I don't think the scums want to crosskill at this time."-Glork

What the fuck is this Glork. You are admitting you are in a scum group?

Vezo: No, I'm saying that

if someone in a scumgroup thinks I'm scum, they won't be inclined to "crosskill" me.

That sentence was made in the context of "people seem to think that I'm decently scummy right now, so I'm probably a bad nightkill choice because scums wouldn't want to kill someone who they think is scum." The funky working was due to it being 3am.

I wasn't crystal clear articulate in the sentence you picked out and decide was a "slip," but if you look at the context, it should have been VERY clear that I was talking about "Glork is really suspect right now ---> Scums don't want to crosskill ---> Scums probably won't kill Glork." Learn some fucking READING COMPREHENSION before you decide what is or isn't a "slip."

[Glork]

I thought it was 9. Whoops.

[Glork]

Anywho, based on Reck's last post, I'd be content to lynch Quadz.

[Glork]

Glork, assuming we have a 3:3:12 setup, where does that put us with potential nightkills?

I can do a best case scenario, but I can't figure out all options from here.

BEST CASE SCENARIO, we lynch Scum A today, scum kill each other tonight, we lynch Scum B tomorrow, and scum kill each other off again N5.

Also, are we all content to agree that it's 3:3:12 because Kise wouldn't be stupid enough to make it 4:4:10?

It's almost certainly 3:3:12. Balance dictates that it is such. There seem to be a bunch of vanilla townies, with most (if not all) of the power condnesed into the masonry.

4:4:10, given we already have four dead Vanillas, would be completely unreasonable, IMO. 2:2:12 is possible, but less likely than 3:3:12.

So, if we assume 3:3:12, then right now we're looking at:
2:2:6

1) Supposing we lynch Mitochondrial (arbitrary) today, two nightkills on townies would put us at 2:1:4 tomorrow. Lynch the other Mito tomorrow, we could feasibly be at 3:2. Silly to think you're still in LyLo if you lynch 4 out of 5 days correctly, but that'd be the case.
2) Supposing we lynch Mitochondrial today and 2 nighktills on townies, tomorrow is 2:1:4. If we lynch Geostigma tomorrow, two nighktills on townies could put us in a 1:1:2 prisoner's dilemma. Again, that's 4 out of 5 correct lynches and we'd be in a practially unwinnable situation.
2) Supposing we MISLYNCH today, two nighktills on townies would put us at 2:2:3 tomorrow -- also practically unwinnable.

Basically, we have ZERO margin for error in this game unless the scums crosskill. And even then, the scums could still very well win if we lynch correctly.

Now, if we lynch a scum, the last remaining member of that faction basically HAS to try to crosskill to survive. So that might give us a tiny bit of wiggle room. Just like I said back in SquareEnix 1, the last thing that any scumgroup should want to do is wind up in that Prisoner's Dilemma, where the game is a complete crapshoot. Because two townies died last night, the scums have little margin for error as well. If they continue killing off townies, they'll end up in a "who shoots whom" situation, and scums can't really have much control over that kind of scenario, because they cannot predict who the other team will shoot.

Bottom line: We need to try to lynch scum today.
If we lynch scum today, the last scumbag of that faction MUST try to crosskill to survive.
If we lynch town today, BOTH scumgroups should be trying to crosskill to avoid a 2:2:3 crapshoot.

[Glork]

Also, I'm wondering if we even had a cop at all. Chrono claimed the masons cleared Fate via investigation, but he was a mason all along.

Yeah, that's one thing I don't get at all. Honestly, as poorly as I've played, the masons didn't play very well either. Chrono claimed that a confirmed masonbuddy of his investigated another confirmed masonbuddy of his as innocent, which makes ZERO sense.

As soon as I pointed out the obvious Fate/Chrono connection and voted Chrono, Reck joined me, and

FATE JUMPED THE WAGON ONTO HIS OWN MASONBUDDY

. Seriously,

who the fuck DOES that

?


What would REALLY piss me off is if I were about Chrono lying about his masonry. I obviously entertained the idea, as shown in the first two paragraphs of this post, but I couldn't bring myself to believe that "confirmed masons" would investigate each other, or that they would VOTE EACH OTHER.

Fate (since I know you're reading this from the green room)... you want to know why I thought you/Chrono were scum? Because you were fucking PLAYING LIKE IT, doing retarded shit that NO COMPETENT MASONS SHOULD EVER DO.



Rant off.

[Glork]

So, Reck, do you think there was a cop in the masongroup? Because I'm kind of starting to doubt it. The worst thing we could have is a scum popping in and fakeclaiming to be the MasonCop, and the only remaining member of the masonry.


That said, if last night QuadzScum

did

think that he would be investigated with Chrono revealing the result, then OF COURSE he would want to kill off Chrono. Quadz is definitely the play today, but I want

EVERYONE

to pop in and weigh in on a bunch of matters:

QUESTIONS THAT EVERYONE NEEDS TO PROVIDE INPUT ON:

1) What do you think of the masonry? Is there a Mason Cop out there? Could there be additional masons out there?
2) What do you think of Quadz? Specifically,

WHY

do you think he is town or scum?
3) What do you think of the numbers game? Are we at 2:2:6? 3:3:4? 1:1:8? Why do you think we have the current setup, and what do you think we need to do to bring home the victory?
4) Who are your top suspects at this exact moment? Which scumgroup do you think those players are in? Why do you suspect those players?

[Glork]

As to this question: "What does this say to you, if not 'Glork is playing shitty but fine, I'll take your word that he's not scum.'" Nowhere in there does Fate imply he thinks you're any less scummy than you were. In fact, he continues to say that what you were doing was "not fuckin' right." What it says to me is "I think Glork is scummy, but nobody else agrees, and I've had experience with lurkerscum before, so inHim seems to be a good vote, too."

Of course, Fate would have put in more CAPS LAWKE and cuss words, but you get my drift.

Context is important here. Fate had just finished making a very focused case on me, in which he said something like "This is fucking happening." He had his sights set very squarely on me. Reck came in and made one very simple statment: "Glork isn't scum," and Fate went "fffiiiiiiiine." I don't think Fate thought I was less

scummy

, but he definitely fell into line behind Reck, who asserted that I am not

scum

. Being scummy and being scum are EXTREMELY different things. In fact, it's exactly why most mislynches happen.

Third: How was I "licking your nuts," exactly? By saying you've been playing pro-town? My bad. Perhaps the rest of my post (inspired by this last post of yours) will put your mind at ease.

This post = sheepy sheep sheep into a fencsitting position. It's scumtasterrific.

The 2nd part is just a strange response. Why didn't you just tell him that we didn't know Fate was a mason, and therefore could not have guessed he was the supposed cop? His flip doesn't matter either way in this circumstance. Not scummy in and of itself, but it feels like his reasoning is off, and he's stretching for answers.

Huh? Vezo was all "GLORK KILLED FATE B/C FATE WAS A MASON COP." My response was a combination of "No, Fate took Reck's word that I'm probably not scum" and "he wasn't a mason cop anyway, he was a Mason Juggernaut."
I'm not going to lie and say that I didn't know Fate was a mason, because that was a possibility in the very back of my mind. (Like I said, I posted about that already, and just linked to that post a few minutes ago.) But in no way did I think that Fate was a cop. If Glorkscum were trying to kill a Cop, he would most certainly NOT have gone shot Fate.

[Glork]

Actually, something just occurred to me that I forgot about.
Vezo could uberblock everyone. With Fate's flip, I think it's pretty safe to say that he vigged Nero (?!?). So if we lynch scum today, and Vezo is able to massblock, we could actually go into tomorrow with 2:1:6, which would be much more bearable.
Still, we CANNOT control who the scums kill, only point out when they have to croskill to survive. Right now we have to focus entirely on lynching scums, and evidence points to Quadz trying to save his own ass.



I'm starting to get some of my swagger back. Looking back at some shit (mainly the whole Fate/Chrono thing), I feel like I'm not playing as poorly as I initially thought. Yeah, I was wrong on Devo. But I knew that something was wrong about Chrono/Fate, and as it turns out Chrono was probably lying out his ass about having a Mason Cop. I was right on JP, but never got a chance to jump that wagon because it ended via inHim. I was right about inHim, too, but never got to jump that wagon b/c I was out of the house and it ended very suddenly. Now that the Fate/Chrono issue is behind me, I think I've got a much clearer head and can probably kick this game's ass from here on out.

And yeah, we need some fucking modprods on bitches and hos. I believe Bill, Zazie, KDub, and BV have yet to post today. KDub is the least scummy of the four, IMO, but I could definitely see any of the other three being poopy dumbdumb lurkerscums.

[Glork]

Bill, Zazie, Quadz, and either Prana or BV.

Those are probably your four remaining scums. If Quadz flips scum, I will consider the outside possibilty that Reck is scum. Midnight seems ok enough, KDub is kind of a wild card. I don't strongly dislike any of his posts, but he has been REALLY quiet, which brings me back to SquareEnix 1 and makes me worry a bit.


KDub, if you're town, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE contriute more. I want to know who you think the scummmsssss are.

[Glork]

EBWOP: Sorry, if Quadz flips

TOWN

, I will consider the outside possibilty that Reck is scum. For fuck's sake, I need to start proofreading my posts.

[Glork]

Vote: Quadz

Claim please.

Unvote

to prevent "accidental" hammer. But Quadz, consider yourself at Lynch-1.

[Glork]

Actually, looking over your iso has convinced me more that you're scum than listening to Reck ever did.

It's funny how little you say about SO MANY PLAYERS in the game. From Day One through Day Three, the only people you actually express any firm opinion on are Reck, Fate, Dram, and Nero. Once you get called out for your lack of content, you do a bunch of deflection to a bunch of other lurkers, saying that

they

were unhelpful and need to post more.

Your contributions have been virtually nonexistent, and the few suspicions you've expressed are all complete garbage.

(Also, looking over your iso, this post is the other bit of "nut-licking" I didn't like about you. I don't think my play was very clean, but you're the only person aside from Reck who has labeled me "very protown," I believe.)

[Glork]

EBWOP: Eh, you all out Midnight a little bit, too. Too bad he's probably town as well.

[Glork]

Nope, I've convinced myself.

Vote: Quadz

[Glork]

vote quadz

I don't think I need a reason other than the claim.

Jesus fucking balls. Two people

HAND'T EVEN POSTED TODAY

and you dropped the fucking hammer?

Also, I've seen plenty of rolecops that were protown. They *usually* have some kind of restriction. Every-Other-Night works about as well as any other restriction, though it's not very creative.

I don't actually know whether he'll flip town or scum. I suspect probably scum, but either way, Vezo is a fucking dumbass.

[Glork]

EBWOP: Oh, and the obligatory question to Quadz:
Why Devo and why Reck?

[Glork]

He frickin choosed Devo on night 1.
He died. Seriously how obvious scum does quadz have to be to believe he is scum.
Also it's not his restisction. He couldn't do it on one night because I mass rb.

THE POINT IS NOT WHETHER HE IS SCUM OR NOT, IT'S THE FACT THAT YOU ENDED DAY SUPER EARLY YET AGAIN WITHOUT GIVING US A CHANCE TO EXTRACT INFORMATION FROM TWO SOMEWHAT-SUSPECTED PLAYERS, ZAZIE AND BV.

[Glork]

This town blows.

You won't find me arguing with this statement. Good god I hope Quadz is scum.

This is exactly why I wanted Quadz to claim at Lynch -2, not Lynch -1, but he had to be a stubborn bum and go "NUH UH, LOOKIT MY POSTS."

[Glork]

I don't see what your problem is bill...

you were on the wagon

But it's not

MY

responsibility to make sure that

SOMEBODY ELSE DOESN'T DROP A PREMATURE HAMMER

. I even did what I could, by voting/unvoting and asking for a claim, and I even posted:

Vote: Quadz

Claim please.

Unvote

to prevent "accidental" hammer. But Quadz, consider yourself at Lynch-1.

The point is, I made it VERY clear that I wanted Quadz to claim, but that I wanted the day to continue. Quadz didn't cooperate when I said "consider yourself at Lynch-1" so I put my vote BACK on him so that he would claim. Then, before I could remove it "for safety" again, fucking dumbshit Vezo over here dropped the hammer.


There is

ZERO

reason to end a day before everyone has had a chance to post and interact, unless you are a fucking scumbag who wants to protect his buddies. Vezo's either completely and utterly retarded, or he's scum.

[Glork]

I'm not going to buy Vezo scum at the moment, I honestly feel the mass RB ability is too poor for a scum team power. Unless the scum can only kill every other night (but I'm not thinking that's a possibility) as they'd be able to kill one night, RB the next etc. So I'm more going to assume Vezo is pro-town for the time being. Terrible for dropping the hammer, but the play of town so far (Dram/Reck on day one, Chrono/Fate all while they were alive, Vezo, and even my accidental hammer drop Day 3) has been fucking god awful.

Yeah, I should clarify.

I think Vezo is a complete fucking retard, not a scumbag. That's how I feel right now, anyway.

[Glork]

BTW, it's worth noting that Zazie has not posted on-site a tall in a full WEEK.


Dude needs serious replaced. And then serious lynched.

[Glork]

From QT:

Hey I have an idea. What if I don't roleblock tonight. The scums may be certain that I will block and kill nobody. And I can use again the next day?
What do you think of this guys?
Also I need the doc protect if this is the plan.

I think the scums would be stupid to not send in a night kill regardless.

I know damned sure if I was scum I'd be sending in a kill every night whether I knew you would be mass RB'ing or not, just in case you did decide otherwise.

The only difference would be if the ability was restricted in some form (every other night, only even/odd nights etc.)

You're also then of the assumption the doc is in this town, and if they're not (say it's Reck) then nobody could tell them to be 100% sure they protect you.

I say use the RB regardless, it moves us into day phase guarenteed. Hell, I'd only be suggesting your plan to you if I was scum with you, purely to screw with town, as it wont screw with scum.

Vezo, why would you not use it? The only one it wouldn't have worked on would have been Fate, but he's gone so your free to use it without anyone dying

....and thats a good thing yes? .-.

Block tonight. There is NO question about it. We cannot afford to risk losing anybody due to scumkills if you can in fact block everybody. If you do not block tonight, then I will assume that you are a One-Shot Scum Massblocker, and that you used your ability to try to "confirm" your alignment early on in the game. Do I make myself absolutely clear? You are not to be trusted with making ANY important decisions yourself for the rest of this game.

vezo, you should definitely mass roleblock tonight. Having effectively two day phases in a row is extremely valuable. We want that to happen as often as possible.

Still waiting on Vezo to confirm that he is going to massblock tonight.

Hi guys.
I hope I can use the mass roleblock. We will know after the day begins.

I call 100% bullshit on Vezo. We told him THROUGHOUT THE NIGHT, and he posted

A FULL DAY BEFORE THE THREAD OPENED

that he "hoped" he would be able to send in his ability.


Complete and utter bullshit.


There is

NO

doubt that Vezo is scum. He WILL be lynched today. But we're not going to fall into the same trap as we did yesterday. I want posts from Zazie and BV. I want each of them to name the last two scums for us, and I want each of them to give us FULL details on WHY those to players are the last two scums.

[Glork]

lolol.

You're certainly a fuckton more town than the rest of these people. Like I said, I was mostly only considering you for scum if Quadz had flipped town.



Also, I'm reasonably confident that Prana had an innocent on Bill. He was on Bill's wagon D3 before he jumped to inHim, then D4 completely ignored Bill, and last night even defended Bill when KDub and I were all "I don't like Bill very miuch." Bill and KDub had an intriguing exchange that I will let KDub repost, since he was the one involved with it and I just reposted like 6 "VEZO IS DUMBBUTT SCUM" posts.

[Glork]

BTW, if Vezo is from the OTHER scumgroup from Quadz/Buddy (which is likely), we could end up in a 3-1-1 tomorrow, WHICH IS STILL FUCKING LYLO.

Fucking RETARDED. This is why mods are bad at two-mafia games.

[Glork]

Zazie posted on the 8th in another game, so he's back. I'm giving him no more than 48 hours before I start going on a modprodfuckingrampage.

Can we agree to just not fucking vote at all until everyone has had some discussion? I know inHim's already dead, but even a couple of votes are making me skittish right now.

[Glork]

NO WAIT, I GO TTHAT BACKWARDS.


Prana supported me in not liking Bill. But it wasn't very certain. So he probably didn't investigate him?
KDub defended Bill.

Jesus balls, why the fuck don't I ever read anything before I post?

---

Vote Count:

vezokpiraka: 1

(xRECKONERx)

Not Voting:

bill1148
bv310
Glork
KDub
Midnight's Sorrow
vezokpiraka
ZazieR

Lynch:

5 votes.

Deadline:

August 24th - 5:00 AM EST

[Glork]

Fuck it, I don't know. I'm just going to repost the exchange and let you all decide what you think.

Seriously, everyone, go back and look at Zazie's posts. I was uberconvinced that he is scum, until I realized that he has been 100% offsite for over a week. Now I'm just "mostly sure." Either way, we need to put a lot of pressure onto Zazie/Replacement tomorrow. Get them to take firm stances and commit to suspicions. Same goes for BV, except I think he's more actively lurking than Zazie. Bill still feels wrong to me. I feel like his posts are of similar ilk to SE1... I'd love to see some input from you guys on Bill's posts (specifics) tonight.

Okay, working through Bill's posts.

I note that his ISO 6 says that Dram needs to be looked into, but then ISO 8 says Reck isn't scum with Dram, but it's "possible" he is only interested in keeping Dram around to play more with him... then suggests we should trust Reck (which I take to mean not lynching Dram), trying to keep appearing pro-town when Dram gets lynched?

Also, isn't it from there where the whole "Reck only wants Dram around to play more with him" began? I admit I continued pushing it too when Reck started screaming and shouting and providing zero reasoning, but even so... if that's where it began it's suspicious considering he's also suggested trusting Reck at that point.

ISO 17 has him saying if JPs ability was automatic then those on his wagon should get +town points. This was before we knew there was an executioner. So I'm actually suspicious of those he singled out as getting pro-town points there. An attempt to make his team mate(s) seem better by association with a scum lynch?

ISO 18 has him stating Vezo "is" town purely by claim alone. Now while I'm willing to currently give Vezo the benefit of the doubt, I honestly wouldn't suggest he's 100% town at this stage. Which to me suggests either Bill knows Vezo is town, or they banked on using the ability as a way of appearing pro-town. This increases my suspicion of a Vezo/Bill scum team there (which also suggests they're not with JP & Quadz, but instead are with InHim... who incidentally was on the JP wagon too, hmmm)

ISO 26 Bill only now comes out and talks about how poor the judgement was on a mass roleblocker revealing themselves... despite having made a few posts between the reveal and this post. Which smells of "Ooops, best make a comment on it".

ISO 28 he runs through everyone on his wagon and tries to state how all of their reasons are poor. Even so far as to point out I was completely absent day 2, despite the obvious fact I was V/LA, and despite his argument to the contrary, it was obviously placed there in an attempt to make me appear scummy.

Also that post shows InHim suggesting Bill was the executioner... possibly a chance to try and distance at the last minute? He even says InHim has reasons... but then dispells them as "shoddy reasoning".

ISO 42 Is suggesting that if there's a mason cop they should claim, blatant role fishing under the guise of revealing town players. Considering at this stage at best there would be 2 reveals (remember night 2 had the mass RB) that would be a pretty poor choice to reveal right there.

So actually looking more in depth at Bill, I'm finding him more likely to be scum, with it being slightly possible that Vezo is his scum buddy (guarenteed scum buddy if he doesn't mass RB tonight for that matter).

btw, Vezo, your ability, your PM, does it say you can only use it every other night, or does it say if you use it one night, you can't use it the following night? Just wondering.

That's a pretty weak case IMO:

Iso 6 - dram wasn't even the vote leader at the time. He did say he didn't want to vote quadz (who was at L-3), which is a bit concerning, but this is an argument for him being on JP/quadz's team, not inHim's team.

Iso 17 - A bit of a reach, but it's a fair point.

Iso 18 - In post 519 (iso 20), you AGREE with bill about vezo, now you are using it against him?

Iso 26 - This is a fair point, the timing is strange.

Iso 28 - But the thing is, all the reasons against him WERE poor. Can you look at the votes he responded to and honestly say there was a good case on him?

Iso 42 - Well, I had suggested the same, and I think there is merit to it, as long as the cop has at least one clear. Assuming it was 2:2:6 at the time, and assuming that we had two consecutive lynches, clearing 2-3 people right off the bat makes it much easier to hit scum, gives any doctors an idea of who to protect, and presents both scum teams with the problem that they need to kill each other and deal with a growing number of confirmed innocents. Since there was no claim, I am guessing that either there is no cop, or the cop had no results on players who were still living. I still think it was a reasonable idea if they did though.


I know I am defending bill quite a bit, but seriously, there is no case on him. When I look through your posts, I see almost no justification of your vote on him. You question him very briefly on him trusting Reck, but after that, you agree with him on vezo (which contradicts your case on him now), then you call him out in 563 (iso 22) for a post that he never actually made (vezo was the one who voted bv despite saying it was a bad wagon). You never admit to this mistake despite quadz pointing it out in the very next post, and you vote bill shortly after. From that point on, you never raise any new arguments against him despite repeatedly calling him scum.

So basically, I see you as reaching and contradicting yourself in an attempt to paint bill as scum.

ISO 6 - I'm more pointing out the curiousness in the changes of view, from saying Dram needs looking into, to saying Reck should be trusted when he says Dram is clear. Not wanting to vote Quadz also doesn't suggest he's not scum either. At that stage neither scum team are likely to have known there was a second team (unless Kise told them, but I doubt that), so Bill would have been unwilling to vote someone he thought would flip town, on the basis of appearing town.

ISO 18 - Viewpoints change once you look back on things, I'm sure you are aware of this. At the time it was different, looking back with other things in hand it stands out to me. Also I've never outright suggested Vezo is 100% town, I've always said is probable town, lately I've been a bit confused as to whether he is or not, and thus Bill's statement stands out more in my eyes.

ISO 28 - I agree some of the reasons weren't great, but outright discrediting them seemed a bit much, if they were that poor he could have just mentioned it in passing and moved on with scum hunting immediately. Also, what about his blatant attempt to paint me as scummy for not being around, despite my being on V/LA?

ISO 48 - It's still an exceptionally poor idea. At this stage of the game the cop would have, at most, 2 results. If they'd got a guilty they would have either announced it or gone after the person, if they've got 2 innocents, I could understand revealing. But just a single innocent? That would be rather foolish I find, especially if they have a shot at catching another scum.

Also, so far all town roles have been VTs, so what happens if the only pro-town power roles WERE in that mason group? The cop could be outing themselves for a free kill, that would be terrible cop play. So if there's a cop out there I'm glad they didn't reveal themselves as they'd be dead tonight unless Vezo uses his ability, even then they would be dead the next night before they had chance to reveal anything.

Regarding my calling out of bill's poor vote when it was Vezo, fair point, and the only reason I didn't say anything about it on return was because other stuff had happened in the meantime and it seemed pointless to retread something that was simply "my mistake, ignore this" when everyone else had already forgotten that.

But like I say, there's no contradictions when it comes to rereading and using information that has come to light to see links. What I said back then was done before any information came to light, what I'm saying now is after plenty of information has come out. Do you not see the difference?

If I accused person A of stealing something from Person C, and stated that Person B couldn't have done it, but then evidence came to light that person B was actually in the vicinity of it when I previously believed they weren't, would I be contradicting myself to say Person B now possibly did do the stealing? 'course not, it's just taking the information presented to you at any one time to work things out, which is what I'm doing.

What I have done though is state that I had a gut read on Bill, and reading through the ISO convinces me I'm likely correct as well.

What do you think, Reck? Guilty on Bill or not?

[Glork]

MS feels town to me. Call it gut, but he's the last person I'd want to lynch out of BV/Zazie/KDub/MS.

[Glork]

Mehhhh. I guess it just feels like forever because we've had LIKE THREE LYNCHES IN A FUCKING WEEK or some bullshit like that.

I'll be quite honest, I haven't even botehred to look at Bill's response to Prana's case. But Re: "Prana Voted Quadz D4," Quadz was very obviously the play that day, and going out of one's way to vote for Bill would have been :badcopping:.



And Reck, we are lynching Vezo today. This is not up for debate. You can vote for MS to prove a point for now, but I absolutely REFUSE to vote for anybody not named vezopiraka. We made it abundantly clear MULTIPLE TIMES that he had to block, and that failure to do so would result in him being Scum. He even said he hoped he could still block 22 hours BEFORE DAY STARTED, and then tried to post today that he FUCKING "FORGOT" TO BLOCK?

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?

Vezo is 100% the play. ZERO questions asked.


The main topics for debate are:
1) Which scumgroup is Vezo a part of? (Presonally, I say buddies w/inHim, makes MUCH more sense esp given his quickhammer yesterday.)
2) Who is Vezo/inHim's last scumbuddy?
3) Who is JP/Quadz' last scumbuddy?

[Glork]

Also, I'm reasonably confident that Prana had an innocent on Bill. He was on Bill's wagon D3 before he jumped to inHim, then D4 completely ignored Bill, and last night even defended Bill when KDub and I were all "I don't like Bill very miuch."

Not to put a damper on anything, or even ruin PArna's groove, but is it safe to assume that theres also a Mito Godfather like Geostigma had one? So one getting an innocent result shouldn't be instantly considered innocent, because the godfathers in this would likely come back innocent.

Doesn't matter, because I'm dumb as poop and got it backwards.

Last night Prana was all "DUDE YO BILL IS THE SCUMZ."
And KDub was chillin' like "FUCK NO MAN DUDE'S FUCKIN TOWN."

[Glork]

Also, I know that Vezo used his ability N2, and I do believe that Fate StrongarmVigged Nero.

SEVRAL people reported having been roleblocked N2. I was roleblocked as well, though I did not say anything at the time because I figured it was trivial.

[Glork]

Ah, I see... I suppose that might make sense. I had Nero squarely in my "neutral" category, so I don't know why Fate would have vigged him... but then again, I have no idea why scums would want to kill Nero either.

[Glork]

I am town.
I forgot to use the kill because I argued with my neighbours in the QT and forgot to send the block. I argued about that block that I forgot to send the block.
Anyway I promise I will use it tonight.
And why are we mod gaming Kise?

You didn't "argue." You said "I think I should not block," then ALL FOUR OTHER PEPOLE in the QT said "Yes you should" and you said "I hope I blocked."


I want to know one thing, straight up:

Why didn't you send in the kill at the time you posted this:

vezokpirakaPerson was signed in when posted 127
08-09-2010 03:56 AM ET (US)

Hi guys.
I hope I can use the mass roleblock. We will know after the day begins.

Seriously. What the fuck possessed you to say "okay, I hope I can use it" and then NOT SEND IN THE FUCKING KILL AT THAT TIME?


Are you fucking KIDDING ME? You are

NOT

going to talk your way out of this one. You haven't even bothered to offer any kind of explanation as to WHAT THE FUCK WAS GOING THROUGH YOUR HEAD DURING NIGHT, EITHER DURING OR AFTER THE POINT WHERE PRANA, MIDNIGHT, KDUB, AND I ALL FUCKING TOLD YOU THAT THE ONLY CORRECT PLAY WAS TO SEND IN THE KILL.

[Glork]

Er, send in the roleblock.

[Glork]

KDub's right. If, by some fluke of the imagination, Vezo does flip town, he will have best redeemed himself by giving us his absolute best analysis of the entire game.

[Glork]

Why would I do that?
Let me tell you what we do today.
We lynch scum and I use my ability tonight.
You can then lynch me tomorrow.

No seriously. If you are town, your only hope of surviving is to convince everyone else in the town that other players are better lynch candidates. So get fucking started, rather than saying "Let's lynch scum today" without any followup.

You're so bad at this, it's actually kind of funny.

[Glork]

...huh?

[Glork]

Heat? From what game (series)?

[Glork]

I absolutely do not, and I refuse to vote for anybdoy not named Vezo.


Also, this game is really fucking boring me and we need replacements for both Zazie and BV now.

[Glork]

and why not?

..and yeah....you can hear the crickets just chirping away in here

BECAUSE READ THE FUCKING QUICKTOPIC. HE STILL HAS NOT EXPLAINED WHY HE DIDN'T SEND IN THE BLOCK AT THE SAME TIME HE POSTED IN THE QT AFTER WE TOLD HIM TO SEND IT IN. YOU DON'T JUST "FORGET" SOMETHING THAT YOU ARE ACTIVELY TALKING ABOUT "HOPING IT WORKS."

[Glork]

oh my god, how is this difficult?

FoS: Midnight

[Glork]

Vezo: I want full claim. Name, game, role flavor, ability flavor. Everything. Just saying "btw I'm Heat" doesn't do a damned thing for me.


Midnight: Yes. It's called my "This is an obvious fucking case of 'scum wants to survive as long as possible and weasel out of doing the clearly optimal protown thing' but you're retarded and keep arguing that he could be town, so I don't really have much choice but to suspect you by association" nerve.

[Glork]

Talk is cheap in this case glork.

You have yet to vote vezo.

If he;s so scummy, why havent you?

There is

NO

doubt that Vezo is scum. He WILL be lynched today. But we're not going to fall into the same trap as we did yesterday. I want posts from Zazie and BV. I want each of them to name the last two scums for us, and I want each of them to give us FULL details on WHY those to players are the last two scums.

Can we agree to just not fucking vote at all until everyone has had some discussion? I know inHim's already dead, but even a couple of votes are making me skittish right now.

HERRPAFUCKINGDERRP

[Glork]

PS, I'm loving the sudden silence. It's louder than words..... as if Midnight is posting "oh fuck, Glork's got this shit down."

[Glork]

Ahahahaha.

[Glork]

There is

NO

doubt that Vezo is scum. He WILL be lynched today. But we're not going to fall into the same trap as we did yesterday.

I want posts from Zazie and BV. I want each of them to name the last two scums for us, and I want each of them to give us FULL details on WHY those to players are the last two scums.

Apparently these sentences weren't loud enough for you.

D2 was ended prematurely because of inHim's ability.
D3 was ended prematurely because retards were too wagony and accidentally hammered someone.
D4 was ended prematurely because VezoScum decided to hammer Quadz even though two people HADN'T FUCKING POSTED.

And now on D5, you're trying to ask me why I'm not voting, when those SAME TWO PEOPLE aren't here, one of them is already slated for replacement, and the other is almost certainly going to be replaced as well?

[Glork]

You know, you could save face by just going "Fine. You're right. We shouldn't be wagoning people because Vezo could self-hammer and we would lose a second day of getting info out of Zazie and BV."

But while you sit under that dunce cap being stubborn, I'm going to continue to bask in being correct.

[Glork]

I do believe I've already stated that I can't seem to wrap my mind around vezos ability being scum.

...but you've yet to explain how you can wrap your head around this:

BECAUSE READ THE FUCKING QUICKTOPIC. HE STILL HAS NOT EXPLAINED WHY HE DIDN'T SEND IN THE BLOCK AT THE SAME TIME HE POSTED IN THE QT AFTER WE TOLD HIM TO SEND IT IN. YOU DON'T JUST "FORGET" SOMETHING THAT YOU ARE ACTIVELY TALKING ABOUT "HOPING IT WORKS."

In fact, you completely DODGED the question by trying to ask why I wasn't voting, for which I have given a more-than-satisfactory response.

So, wrap your head around it. Better yet, wrap MY head around it if you're so certain that Vezo is protown.

[Glork]

And while you're working on that, I am going to explain exactly how Vezo could be a Scum Mass Roleblocker. (NOTE: I am assuming that his ability is one-shot, because I believe that multi-use would be hideously overpowered.)

Let's suppose that the Massblock blocks everything except for his own faction. Reaosnable, right? It's powerful (hence one-shot), and it allows his group to make a kill. It is also balanced somewhat in that there is one protown role (Juggernaut) which can bypass it anyway.
Now, the scums didn't know that there was a Juggernaut in the game. So from their perspective, they are blocking everything except their own kill (and possibly any other night actions).

So why didn't the scums kill anyone? Simple.

Nobody would believe Vezo was protown if he claimed to massblock and the same factional kill went through as N1.

That would SCREAM "This is a scum massblock of all other factions."
I think that the scums CONSCIOUSLY CHOSE NOT TO KILL N2 TO MAKE VEZO'S (protown) CLAIM MORE BELIEVABLE. And up until Vezo failed to send in a second block last night, DESPITE TELLING US THAT HE HOPED IT WOULD GO IN, then claiming to have FORGOTTEN to do so when he POSTED IN THE QUICKTOPIC THAT HE HOPED IT WORKED, the scums' "confirm Vezo" plan was working like a charm.



No. I am asking you: "Do you find it believable that Vezo would post "I hope I can use the mass roleblock" and then "forget" to send in the kill at the same time he was actively posting at night?"

[Glork]

Not really, but then again, I have had PRs before that I had forgotten to send in, like doctor protects and vig shots, thinking that I have. It honestly a null tell with me.

No, those are different contexts. You were not ACTIVELY READING AND TALKING ABOUT USING YOUR ABILITIES when you frogot it.


If you were a massblocker and had asked about your ability, and read four responses of "Yes, use it tonight" and posted "I hope I can use it," would

YOU

sent it in at that moment?
Do you think I would send it in at that moment? (PROTIP: The answer is "Yes, absolutely.")
Do you think Reck would sent it in at that mometn? (PROTIP: The answer is "Yes, absolutely.")
Do you think Bill, or the deceased Prana, or KDub would send it in at that moment? (PROTIP: "The answer is "Yes, absolutely.")

So now the question is: Why are you calling it a NULL TELL given the surrounding CONTEXT of Vezo's claim?
The issue is not whether Vezo could forget on any OTHER night. It is whether Vezo would forget TWO SECONDS AFTER POSTING "I HOPE I CAN USE IT."

[Glork]

EBWOP: Seriously, Midnight. I'm giving you like a billion chances to just shut up and bus your scumbuddy already, but every time you say "Nah, he's not lying about having fogotten" I really do find it more and more likely that you are his scumbuddy.

[Glork]

If he's SUCH caught scum, why arn''t we actually trying to find THE OTHER ONES?

Btw, I can't really bus, if I've never had partners in the first place Glorky

I am trying to find the others. Why do you think I'm waiting ot hear from Zazie/BV/Replacements? I can't magically grill them for information when they're not here.

[Glork]

Also, you still didn't answer my question.


Do you think he's lying about having "Forgotten" to send in the block two seconds after posting "I hope I can use the block"?

[Glork]

heres were I find a problem in your case Glork.

Your assuming with what YOU WOULD DO in that situation, and NOT VEZO.

Of course you would have probably have sent it in BEFORE you even talked in the QT

I would have sent it in the moment DP ended.

No. I'm assuming with what

ANY REASONABLE HUMAN BEING WOULD DO

.



You're

STILL

not answering my question.

Do you think Vezo is lying about having "forgotten" to send in the block two seconds after posting "I hope I can use the block"?
I'm going to keep asking this until you say "Yes" or "No."
If you think he's lying, then obviously he's scum.
If you think he's not lying, then you're basically saying "He is a complete fucking moron with zero common sense whatsoever."

It's your call, really. But I do expect an answer. This is NOT a rhetorical question.

[Glork]

Well I wouldn't say he's a 'complete fucking moron" but made lacking in the common sense department.

Seriously though, this is too much of a behavioral tell tbqh with you.

Soooo..... he's NOT lying about having forgotten to send the block two seconds after posting "I hope I can use this."

[Glork]

Meh.

You're getting lynched tomorrow.

[Glork]

'a not my fault you committed such heinous scumtells.

Protown players have no reason to dodge a simple question for the better part of two pages. You're very obviously scum.

[Glork]

So yeah, our last three scums:

Zazie is scum with Quadz/JP
Midnight and Vezo are scum with inHim.



I'd still like to hear from Zazie's replacement and BV's replacement, but I'm pretty content now. I'll probably do a cursory read over the game to make sure there aren't any glaring deficiencies in this theory, but otherwise... GG, all.

[Glork]

How many times must I say that:

BECAUSE READ THE FUCKING QUICKTOPIC. HE STILL HAS NOT EXPLAINED WHY HE DIDN'T SEND IN THE BLOCK AT THE SAME TIME HE POSTED IN THE QT AFTER WE TOLD HIM TO SEND IT IN. YOU DON'T JUST "FORGET" SOMETHING THAT YOU ARE ACTIVELY TALKING ABOUT "HOPING IT WORKS."

wasnt a question directed at me. Which is what you yourself refreed to when you said I was 'dodging' the question?

Semantics. I made my point EXTREMELY clear, and instead of responding to my point, you got accusatory and said "OH YEAH, WELL WHY AREN'T YOU VOTING FOR HIM?"
Then, when I explained the very obvious and in-game reason why I'm not voting for him, you rolled your eyes and huffed around and said "WELL THERE'S NOT MUCH DISCUSSION" instead of responding to the point.
Then when I re-iterated the point, you went 'BUT IT WASN'T A QUESTION."
Then, when I rephrased it as a question, you continued to dodge it.

[Glork]

What game is this from? (Posting from iPhone)

[Glork]

So, I've been promised money from Kise for getting back into this game, and dammit I'm going to earn my 50 cents. Catch up incoming.

I'M SORRY, NO
FUCK NO
THIS IS NOT OKAY

'OH HEY GUYS I LURKED 100% OF THE GAME BUT NOW SINCE THE MOD ASKED NICELY I'M GONNA SHOW UP AND PLAY INSTEAD OF LURKING LIKE A MOTHERFUCKER'

BV310 NEEDS ROPE ASAP KTHX
GLORK, GET ON IT

Vezo first, BV can go tomorrow.

[Glork]

Why vezo first? Scums is scums.

Because I have this nagging feeling about bv and it makes me want to punch a baby right in the junk. Part of me wishes that Vezo, bv, Zazie, Midnight, and Bill were all scums so I could just steamroll through them all but that is simply not the case, and I am more certain of Vezoscum than bvscum.

I mean, if your heart is really set on bv, fine maybe, but not lynching Vezoscum today goes agains like every principle in mafia.

[Glork]

Vezo, why exactly did you say "I hope I can use [the massblock]" in the QuickTopic? Your word choice confuses me, as it almost implies that you tried to send it in and were merely hoping that it would go through.

Please explain IN DETAIL what you were thinking A) When you read the "You definitely should block tonight" comments and B) When you made your "I hope" post.

[Glork]

I haven't seen the posts that were made while I was absent, but based on those a Vezok lynch is good, whereas a bv lynch is not. You'll hear it later if this has changed or not.

"Haven't seen the posts" but "based on THOSE [posts I haven't seen" = blatant self-contradiction.

Zazie's keeping an eye on the game, he's just scum stalling for time.

FYI.

[Glork]

GLORK.
WHY DO WE HAVE TO LYNCH VEZOK TODAY?
AND HOW IS IT POSSIBLE FOR VEZOK/BV310/ZAZIE TO ALL BE SCUM? EXPLAIN YO'SELF

Zazie = JP/Quadz scumbuddy
Vezo/BV = inHim's scumbuddies.

Although there's still the Midnight matter. ARGH. Fuck this shit.



Vezo has committed like a bajillion blatant, standard scumtells. Not lynching him immediately would make us terrible townspeople.
--> Claim ability to "confirm" alignment
--> SuperQuickHammer less than like 72 hours into day, when 20% of the living players HADNT EVEN FUCKING POSTED
--> All this bullshit about "forgetting" to send in a role that he was talking about
--> "GUYS JUST GIVE ME ONE MORE NIGHT" stalling tactic
--> General failure to help the town through any further scumhunting when it looked like he was going to be lynched today

I mean seriously, Reck. What the fuck more do you WANT for him to be the lynch today? I swear, if you're buddies with Vezo/inHim, I'm going to make sure you die. Do I make myself absolutely clear?

[Glork]

Vote: vezokpiraka

Less than 4 days = Money to mouth.

But seriously, Kise, replace fucking lurkers. This is bullshit, and completely unfair to the rest of us.

[Glork]

Don't forget to unvote. :V

[Glork]

Actually, I'm pretty sure I stated LAST NIGHT IN THE QUICKTOPIC that his hammer was superfuckingterribad. I then explicitly stated AT LEAST TWICE that if he did not send in the block, I would assume that he was a One-Shot Scum Massblocker.

Simply put, I don't believe his "I forgot" story, and I've made that VERY APPARENT. I've already stated multiple times that no remotely reasonable human being with half a SHRED of common sense would FORGET to send in a block WHILE THEY WERE POSTING THAT THEY HOPED IT WOULD GO THROUGH.

His failure to send in a block is COMPLETELY anti-town.
His explanation ("I forgot") doesn't make ANY sense and is not consistent with what he said overnight.

IT'S COMMON FUCKING SENSE.



Yes, his failure to send in the kill is the #1 reason he is scum. Because that is completely and utterly anti-town, and ONLY makes sense from a scumbag's perspective. The man has

ONE FUCKING JOB AND HAD NINETY-SIX HOURS TO DO THAT JOB

. He tried to weasel his way out of making a block (because he knows he can't do it), and when that didn't work, he conveniently posted to cover his ass but "forgot" to send it in?
No. Bullshit.

Yeah, I realize I'm sticking my neck out. You know why? BECAUSE I'M FUCKING RIGHT.

[Glork]

Should we massclaim

I had considered this, but I'm thinking, save for tomorrow. There is zero advantage to massclaiming during the night phase, and I don't think we'll even be able to get everyone in here before Vezo dies today.

[Glork]

What I meant with the hope was not hope but I was thinking about other stuff that could intervene and I forgot to send it.

That still doesn't explain why you didn't send it in

WHEN YOU MADE THE QUICKTOPIC POIST

. What possessed you to confirm "I should send in the block" and then NOT DO IT

IMMEDIATELY

?

That makes no sense. At all.

[Glork]

Okay
Someone hammer vezok please

Why don't you do it?

4 votes on him now: Glork, BV, KDub, Bill.

You're still on Midnight because you didn't unvote last page.

[Glork]

Pitting BVscum vs. Zaziescum tomorrow is going to be the uberlulz.

[Glork]

Kiefer, Vanilla Townie.


bvscum is next.

[Glork]

Vote: bv

[Glork]

I have no idea, Midnight. I never bothered to look up my character, becuase it never mattered to me.

If you care to look it up, you're more than welcome to do so.


BV: The rules explilcityl state that we can post the pictures. For reference, here's mine:

[Glork]

And BV, I want the pic from your role PM. Because I'm a nitpicky buttwipe.

[Glork]

Loving how you two are voting before kdub and bill have yet to claim,....when we're trying for a mass claim...especially when this is MyLo...

Impatient?

Glork and KDub are very obviously NOT scum, for the reasons I explained in the QT overnight. (It's worth noting that both Glork and KDub pushed the Quadzlynch, so not only does "Busing is a terrible idea" apply to yesterday's lynch, but it probably applies even MORE to the Quadzlynch because when Quadz was lynched, there were still TWO Mitos alive.)

Of the three remaining players, BV beats out Bill/Zazie because he has very obviously actively lurked throughout the game. He has popped up immediately AFTER lynches to post. He was very prompt heading into the massclaim today. But up until I actually put money-to-mouth and voted him, he hasn't bothered to do a lick of scumhunting. It is consistent with his play in Square Enix I, in which he was scum, and it's very representative of lurkerscum in general.

The only potential question is whether Bill or Zazie is the last scum. I'd rather get rid of the obvobvscum first and worry about getting a correct lynch tomorrow. Lynching bvscum today means that KDub and I can talk over who the last scum is overnight, meaning that no matter which of us is nightkilled, we will both be on the same page heading into tomorrow, and either one of us can make an educated conclusion. (It's worth noting that MS v2.0 cannot taint our QuickTopic tonight, which will help us keep an objective discussion.)

[Glork]

Actually, I changed my mind. BlazesRB/Zazie/Midnight2.0 is definitely, 100% scum:

/confirm

loving my role

Now brand new, Vanilla Townie will post this on role confirmation. Ever.


So yeah, it's BV/Midnight. But Midnight definitely goes first, because that's the 100% guarantee.

Unvote
Vote: Midnight's Sorrow

[Glork]

EBWOP: Okay, so technically, Blazez wasn't brand new. He'd been on site for a whopping two months when this game started. My point remains. Who the fuck posts "loving my role" when their role is the most stock/standard role in Mafia? I will concede that there is a TINY, TINY chance that he's referring to loving the character, but given how obscure it is (I had to look up the character name and game, and it sounds like Midnight didn't know who he was either), I find that to be extremely unlikely.

[Glork]

You really ought to know by now that it's far from the main reason, but it is the final nail in the coffin.

I've been calling Zazie scum for several days, and nothing else in that regard has changed.

[Glork]

Lazy. Plus, it's not like you can explain away Zazie's lurkerscummitude.

---

Vote Count:

Midnight's Sorrow: 1

(Glork)

bill1148: 1

(bv310)

Not Voting:

bill1148
KDub
Midnight's Sorrow

Lynch:

3 votes.

Deadline:

August 18th - 10:00 AM EST

[Glork]

The Riku claim is actually looking like a good Sephiroth safe claim from my PoV.

Why?

[Glork]

Hurr durr, both the scums are voting Bill.


Bill is basically confirmed innocent. Honestly, Bill/KDub, I don't even care which one you two want to lynch today. Just pick one, I'll go with it.

[Glork]

Silver hair, has a sword, with a kill flavor of 'slashed repeatedly' in the night scenes.

I find it weird (read: HIGHLY SUSPECT) that you're using "slashed repeatedly" as a connection between Riku and Sephiroth, when:
A) No scums have had fakeclaims
B) If someone were fakeclaiming, they would probably NOT use flavor related to either of the existing kill methods
C) Silver hair shouldn't have anything to do with anything

This theory. It is full of holes.

[Glork]

Unvote, Vote: bv

[Glork]

lol That should read "So is your vote bw."

Keep convincing yourself of that, because you're sure not going to convince me.

[Glork]

Honestly, Bill/KDub, I don't even care which one you two want to lynch today. Just pick one, I'll go with it.

]I prefer a bv lynch. His flip could potentially clear bill if he is Geo, which he is more likely to be than Mito IMO. If you guys want to go with MS, I'm fine with that as well.

Unvote, Vote: bv

Yes, so very interesting and strange indeed.

Protip: What I'm doing has nothing to do with you, MS.

[Glork]

Yeah, not buying it.

[Glork]

My my, This certainly caught my eye in a re-read.

Glork. Explain to me why you arn't dead after D-3 interactions with Fate. Especially after he said quite cleary he was going to NK you, and his opinion of you hadn't changed at all that day.

If you callin' me scum now's the time to do it while

Glork's

still alive

(I'm NKing him tonight btw, his tunneling is going to make me slip sooner or later)

I"VE GOT NOTHIN TO HIDE BABY

He is a Juggernaut, which is basically a vig who can bypass role-blocks and doctor protects. He was clearly your target, there should be no question about that, as he quite clearly said he thought you scum. There also should be no question that he would not have gotten a kill in, just because he died. He would have, because even if you die, if you have a kill target, it goes down with them as well. So how'd you do it I wonder?

Because Reck convinced Fate that I'm protown, because Reck knows me infinitely better than Fate does.

We've been over this already, this discussion is old hat.

[Glork]

It's also worth noting that, according to the mafiascum wiki, a Juggernaut bypasses bulletproofness. The wiki ALSO states, and I quote "in some cases, the kill cannot be used on consecutive nights," and Fate killed during the global roleblock N2, so there's a good chance he wouldn't have been able to vig me anyway.

I know you're trying to angle a "Glork is a bulletproof Godfather" thing, and it's just not happening.

[Glork]

No it doesn't stand, Godfathers arn't bulletproof son. There are night kill immune. This doesn't mean they are 'bullet-proof'.

They are functionally the exact same thing. I can't believe you're trying to split hairs on which word choice the Wiki uses and which one you want to use.

[Glork]

Godfathers

may be

night

kill immune.

If you're going to split hairs with words, I'm going to play the exact same game.

1) There's nothing that indicates that there's a Godfather on either side. Note that Jenova was the "Geostigma

LEADER

," not a GODFATHER.
2) Even if the last Mito were a "Godfather," there's nothing to point to them being NK-immune. There are no missing kills from either faction, aside from the Global-RB. There is ZERO in-game evidence to support the agenda you're trying to push. None whatsoever.

[Glork]

So MS, at this point, who is the last scum?

[Glork]

You first, champ.

[Glork]

If that's true, let's look at some numbers:

2 Town, 1 Mito, 1 Geo

Let's assume that MS is Geo, and that the other is unknown.

The Geo will definitely attempt to kill MS.
This would put MS in the unenviable position of determining whether to shoot the person he thinks is the other scum, or whether he tries to shoot a townie.

-- If he shoots town, the other scum wins.
-- If he shoots and kills the other scum, the town wins.
-- If he shoots but fails to kill the other scum, or if he elects not to make a kill, then we'll have 3 alive with 1 scum tomorrow.


And yes, this does presume that MS is scum. I'm pretty sure that KDub and Bill both legit believe that. If BV is indeed town, they're probably hoping that Midnight will try to kill, but accidentally kill a townperson, giving them an autowin.

MS, if you're scum, you CANNOT win. The only thing you can hope to do is nokill to give the town (

and your former life, remember

) a chance to win, unless you are 100% POSITIVE that you know who other scumbag is. I'm not interested in any of your pointless blathering or banter here. You can choose to agree with me that KDub/Glork/Bill all think you are scum and would try to crosskill you, or not. That doesn't matter to me in the slightest. But looking at the numbers, if you are scum, you are pretty much completely screwed (unless YOU are an NK-Immune godfather from Mito). Please take the time to think about the situation you're in, and what your options are. I really don't want you to blow this for both your former protown-self AND your current scum-self by being obtuse or short-sighted and hitting a townsperson tonight.

[Glork]

BV, do you still think that the last two scums are KDub/Bill? Why/why not? If you do think someone else is scum, who is it, and why?

[Glork]

Actually, I guess if MS's current life is also protown, there's no way he could win that either. I wonder if it's against the spirit of the game to play for your former life to win, if indeed MSv2.0 is scum. This is why I don't like necro-replacing people, but I'd be damned if I ever let myself lose twice in one game.

[Glork]

Are you admitting your the Mito leader Glork? Cause that's what I'm hearing from you sir

I think it's Kdub/bill myself as the last scum. Glork just has his head stuck far up his ass

Oh my god, Midnight, would you please shut up for a second rather than trying to get the last word.

I am not making an argument FOR or AGAINST you being scum right now. Just read these points and THINK for a few minutes before rolling your eyes and acting as though you know better.
1) Bill has definitively stated that he thinks you are scum
2) KDub has definitively stated that he thinks you are scum
3) Glork has definitively stated that he thinks you are scum

Now, with points 1-3 in mind, consider that if BV is town, and scum can crosskill to win, then it stands to reason that:
4) If BV is town, no matter which of Glork/KDub/Bill is scum, they will attempt to kill MSv2.0 tongiht.

Having said that, just take ten minutes to think about what your current options are, no matter what your alignment is. Once you've taken those ten minutes, read my next post.

[Glork]

Considering Points 1-4:

1) Bill has definitively stated that he thinks you are scum
2) KDub has definitively stated that he thinks you are scum
3) Glork has definitively stated that he thinks you are scum
4) If BV is town, no matter which of Glork/KDub/Bill is scum, they will attempt to kill MSv2.0 tongiht.

There are three possibilites for MSv2.0's role:
A) MSv2.0 is a vanilla townie
B) MSv2.0 is nightkill-vulnerable scum
C) MSv2.0 is nightkill-immune scum

(i) If MS v2.0 is vanilla townie, then BOTH scums would try to kill him, thinking they were crosskilling for the win. We will go into Day 7 with MSv2.0 dead and 2 scum among three townies. Classic prisoner's dilemma. The game will be entirely out of the town's hands.

(ii) If MSv2.0 is kill-vulnerable scum, then the other scum will try to kill him. MS v2.0 will die, and MSv2.0's faction will LOSE. Given this, MS v2.0 has three options
---> Make no attempt to kill. There will be 2 townies and 1 scum alive going into Day 7. Both factions will have a chance to win.
---> Attempt to kill the other scum. If successful, there will be 2 townies alive and 0 scum. The town will win.
---> Attempt to kill a townsperson. If successful, there will be 1 townie alive and 1 scum. The remaining scum will win.
Based on these options, and the fact that MSv2.0 does not KNOW who the last scum is (he seems to think it's me, but he also seems to think that I'm NK-immune), MS v2.0 cannot win. However, his original player slot, MS v1.0, can still win. I would argue that, based on this,

if MS v2.0 is kill-vulnerable scum, his best option is to no-kill and allow MS v1.0 a chance to win the game

.

(iii) If MS v2.0 is kill-immune scum, he can still win. The other scum will try to kill him but will fail. MS should try to kill a townie tonight, putting the game into a 1:1:1 situation in Day 7. The only option for the townie is to no-lynch, and then MS v2.0 simply kills and wins. The

only

way MS v2.0 can lose in scneario (iii) is if he kills the other scum tonight. That would lead to a 2:1 situation with both of the townies suspecting (and lynching) MS.

[Glork]

BV, do you still think that the last two scums are KDub/Bill? Why/why not? If you do think someone else is scum, who is it, and why?

I firmly do. I don't think MS is the last scum, and Bill's hammer seems really suspicious.

I guess we have about a week to kill now, waiting for Kise to come along and post the lynch scene.

Okay, thanks. Personally, if you're protown, I think it's MS/Bill right now, but I'd have to really go back and re-read large chunks of the game to figure out that second scum.

[Glork]

I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make with that post.

[Glork]

And actually, I had reverted to Zazie/BV as the last scums and stated that TWICE before the end of Day Five. After our lengthy argument yesterday, I decided that what we had going on was more townie arguing with townie. I even said "It'll be fun pitting Zaziescum against BVscum" after the hammer had been dropped on Vezo.

[Glork]

I'm not. I just listed every possible scenario for your alignment based on logical assumptions made from observing this thread.

[Glork]

Alright, I'll play ball with you.


Let's pretend that you are protown, and that I am nightkill-immune scum. Please describe to me how you think tonight's actions, and tomorrow's resulting lynch (or no-lynch) will play out.

[Glork]

This is true, because you have this annoying habit of not relaying what you're getting at.

[Glork]

I'm not concerned with your opinion on my slot, as you've already stated what you thought of it. I'm concerned about your thoughts on the other players. Made more so if your actually Town.

I already stated this.

The fact that I'm going through this appeal to you should say "Glork must think that BV might actually be protown, and he's trying to do some damage control."
I already told BV how I feel about the other players if in fact he is protown. I stated that I think the last two scums would be MS and Bill, although I'm not all that convinced that it's Bill, and would want to re-read much of the game (namely, the isos of both of those players and all known scum to date).

You're sitting here telling me that I'm suffering from confirmation bias, when I'm actually sitting at my computer going "Okay, if BV is scum, I'm pretty sure we have this in the bag. But if he isn't scum, which is a distinct possiblity, I have to A) Make sure we don't autolose by the scumkills, and B) Find out who that other scumbag is."



This is going to sound really arrogant, but I don't care at this point. I am WAY ahead of where you think I am. I've been on-site for over five full years now, and I'm widely considered one of the best players in MafiaScum's history. Not only do I find scum accurately, but I am an excellent strategist, a good spin doctor, and I have the capacity to consider a wide variety of possibilities at once and determine best strategies for any number of given scenarios. It won't stop me from trying to pound my opinions into others' heads, but I am more than capable of handling a BV-mislynch if indeed that's what this is.

[Glork]

I'll even tip my hand a little more.


Right now, I think it's 60-40 in favor of BV flipping scum. For that 60%, I don't really have to worry. If I live through tonight, I'll vote you tomorrow, and either win or lose by my own gameplay.

What I'm focusing on is that 40%. Like I said, if BV is town, I have two major jobs right now.
First and foremost, I have to make sure that I don't lose because one scum and one town get nightkilled. That is the entire point of everything I've posted towards you in this page. I am convinced that you are scum, but I need you to be my ally, at least for tonight. If you get nightkilled and kill off a townsperson, I lose. It's that simple. That is by far my biggest concern right now, so it's what I have put my entire focus on, in terms of posted content.
The secondary objective is to find the second scum. Bill has a leg up on KDub in that category for a few reasons. First, I feel that KDub was more active and instrumental in the lynch of the second Mito and the lynch of the second Geo. I've already explained why I think busing your last scumbuddy with another killing faction is a bad idea. It leaves you vulnerable to a loss entirely beyond your control. That alone is MAJOR plus points in KDub's favor. The second reason is that I feel that Bill has done less and less over the last day and a half or so to actively find scum. Bill's behavior is somewhat consistent with a scum who is observing the game and goes "Aha! The most prominent townies are zero-ing in on people other than me, so I'll look useful enough to not wind up like BV, but not so prominent that I become a nightkill candidate." He's VERY under-the-radar from my perspective, whereas KDub seems to be more of a "consequences be damned, I'm going to find scum" attitude. But like I said, I want to re-read Bill and KDub for interactions with known scum, and I want to revisit Bill's posts over the last two days to see if my "diminishing contributions" opinion is more than a general inkling.


So there you have it. That's my entire stance on the game. I'm still decently sure that BV is scum, and that there's nothing to worry about. But if that 40% chane of BV being town does come to pass, I know where I stand and how I'm going to approach this game to secure victory.

[Glork]

Why can't it be Kdubscum?

It absolutely can be KDubscum. I never said it couldn't, just that I

currently

believe

that Bill is more likely scum. Goodness, I'd think that somebody as wordy and nit-picky as you would have actually read what I posted.

[Glork]

Yeah, and I think we'll have to agree to disagree on the bus point.

Based on the flip of "Geostigma Leader," I don't think it's statistically likely that that role, or a potential corresponding Mito leadership role is going to be an NK-immune godfather. Even if that were the case, I don't think it would be sound play to bus Vezo at that particular moment. I would have angled to hold out on BV/Zazie much later into the day.

[Glork]

So Midnight, who do you think the scums are? I don't think I really have a straight answer from you right now. You said Bill/KDub earlier and voted Bill, but you really pulled back and went after me with that whole Fate quote. I'd like to know where you stand right now.

---

Vote Count:

bv310: 3

(KDub, Glork, bill1148)

bill1148: 2

(bv310, Midnight's Sorrow)

Not Voting:

*****

Lynch:

3 votes.

Deadline:

August 18th - 10:00 AM EST

[Glork]

Way to unlock the thread and not bring us to day. -_-

[Glork]

Oh, right at the end we were laughing at Glork, who looked fair to lose the game single-handedly. Scum x-kill ftw.

Eh?

[Glork]

EBWOP: Nevermind, found the graveyard QT.

[Glork]

I'm not really sure how I feel about this game.

I mean, on one hand it felt like a number of townspeople (myself included) played pretty poorly. But on the other hand, the town lynched 4 scum in 6 days, which usually means the town should win. That said, the JP lynch was somewhat of a fluke. About five people seemed willing to vote him, but he wasn't necessarily going to be lynched until he got Executed by inHim.

If this game illustrates one thing, I think it's that two-faction games are really hard to balance or control. It looked for a while that the town was in good position, but then with no crosskills happening, it became "WE LYNCHED FOUR SCUMS IN 5 DAYS AND ARE PROBABLY IN LYLO" and then we mislynched, but then they crosskilled each other and we lucked out. Kinda silly when you think about it. A town that lynches four scums in 5 days shouldn't have to rely on getting lucky to win. But that's what went down.

My eternal fatal flaw shone through again. As I posted in a postgame not too long ago, "In every 3+ person scumgroup, I always manage to decide that exactly one of them is very protown." In this case, despite some reservations about Bill, I managed to do that with BOTH scumgroups. Ugggghhhh. My D1 was terribad, my D2 (suspected JP, didn't get a chance to vote him) D3 (suspected inHim, didn't get a chance to vote him), D4 (quadz) and D5 (Vezok) were fine, but then D6 was just an abomination. I guess I feel like I played kinda okay but certainly not well enough to win. If there's one positive I can get out of this endgame, it's that I can now finally point to a game and say "Sometimes people keep Glork alive because he is the biggest fucking moron in the room."

[Glork]

Also, <33333 Reck.

[Glork]

Also, Kise, I promise to read your endgame flavor.

[Glork]

Nah, I'd have to give Player of the Game to Reck, by a mile. He was very clearly the most accurate, and did the best job of leading people in the right direction. His opinions were scattershot throughout, but at the end of days, he landed on the right people, all the time.

[Glork]

I get rowdy in game, but I really don't hold grudges, unless someone repeatedly (I'm talking like four or five games in a row) shows that they are incompetent and unwilling to do anything.


We're totally good, Fate.

[Glork]

I demand endgame flavor, Kise!