TT; Book 1: Bible Verse Mafia - Game over!
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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- Location: Somerville, MA
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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Right, found some time.
Armlx's comment doesn't strike me as particularly scummy to be honest. I'd rather judge his intentions by his actions than by an off-hand comment on his suspicions.
RoadBird doesn't stick out in his bandwagon jumping and I'm a bit weary of voting people based on issue posts at this point. There are too many people who have hardly contributed.
I don't see what the Coron wagon was based on.
VisMaior is still the only one who seems to have done something remotely scummy. His inconsistency indicates an ulterior motive. I'll stick with my vote on him for now.
Some other things that struck me on the re-read:
I was surprised by how fast the Coron wagon took off and how many people blindly followed mith. It also makes me slightly suspicious of mith, because he almost seemed to be directing the chaotic bandwagon voting.
Commodore Amazing, this is all you've posted in-game:vote: Flying DutchmanFlying Dutchman dead yet?
Why?We're not. We're lynching Flying Dutchman.-
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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Thanks.VisMaior wrote:
No posts or few posts with no content.And why?
Roadbird, this post started the Coron wagon:
Also, the assignment-thing seemed to get way too much attention.mith wrote:Fair enough.
Vote: Coron
The Coron bandwagon is now boarding. Please proceed to gate 107 for departure. Thank you.
I am just suspicious of people who take control so easily and early in the game. But maybe mith is a good enough player to warrant blind following. I don't know, because I haven't played with him before.[/quote]-
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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Well I want to give him the chance to provide more content than simply "the current play is not me." Comments like that really get on my nerves. It's right up there with "seriously, I'm a bad lynch" and "you guys don't want to make me claim."
Kerplunk has been more lurkish and less productive in my eyes. Also, he promised content yesterday and then simply bandwagoned RoadBird without providing any justification. I think he's scummier.
As far as LML's sanity goes, I think it's unlikely we can deduce anything from the actual text. The context seems more important. In this case, the addressee is King Solomon. Based on that, I think we can trust his results for now.-
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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Pooky, I'm not entirely content with the bandwagon on you as I've said earlier, but your response is not justified.
How much have you honestly contributed to finding scum? Also, ranting about what the lack of productivity brings about is strange, because you have mostly only contributed to that atmosphere.-
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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Pooky, calm down. Swearing and shouting isn't going to help nor is it going to make people listen.
You can't contribute in this environment? That is an excuse for a vicious circle of complete inactivity. There is always room for an attempt at productivity.
I don't like the dichotonous attitude, but DP is not the only one guilty of that as far as I can see.-
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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Could you please show me where you used to gentle logic to bring us around? Especially where you did over a period of three weeks.PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:I guess ur suggesting that I calmly fold my hands and sit down and try to use gentle logic to bring you guys around so that we can actually get a game going instead of shouting at the top of my lungs in fustration at the screen?
Oh wait, that's what I was doing for the last three weeks before I got angry and started ranting! As I remember, you guys just nodded alot and said vote: Pooky without actuaylly giving any reasons or logic.
Shoot that path sure turned out to be a winner no?
For the record, my suggestion is that you stop ranting and play the game. Yes, the atmosphere isn't the epitomy of productivity. Well, let's try to change that by getting rid of some of this unnecessary hostility and actually looking for scum. This discussion isn't getting us anywhere.
Simply ranting is not waking the town up. Productivity is waking the town up.Pooky wrote:If you want me to stop trying to wake the town up? You want the town to keep stumbling towards its grave in some sort of lethargic trance?
IF you don't, then post something more than a 3 lines which talks about productivity(which you haven't shown), telling me to quiet down(when really the problem is you being too quiet), and telling us DP isn't the only one guilty(duh we know, you're guilty of it too).
My statement about DP was meant to indicate that I don't think we can pin the dichotonous thinking on him when it is a prevailing attitude. Also, where have I shown it?
I don't like how you say "the problem is you being too quiet." It's a valid point about my productivity, but it is unrelated to the case against you.
InHim, could you outline some of your conclusions more clearly? I'm not sure I follow all of them.-
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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Eh? That's a blatant mischaracterisation of my actions. Where have I gone after you? I responded to your ranting because I didn't feel it was justified. I've never stated you were the most unproductive person in the game nor have I voted you for unproductivity. Why would DP need to be involved? I have not singled you out. I went into a discussion with you because I thought your position and attitude were unjustified and potentially harmful to the town.PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:I've also found VitaminR slightly suspicous but I haven't played with him enough to conclude anything definite on him. I find it very odd that it's so clear that if you compare post-by-post between me and DP that our posting history can be so similar with his being clearly worse than mine yet you've decided to go after me instead of him based on reasoning that is MUCH more applicable to him than me.
It's a separation effect that I believe could be very useful later in the game.
Also, why me? Why not, say Glork (or even DP who is voting you for unproductivity when he is less productive)? Hehasvoted you over DP for unproductivity. He has even declined to discuss it with you directly.
Unvote: Kerplunk
Vote: Pooky
For mischaracterisation and ignoring the actions of others to single me out unfairly.-
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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Fair enough. Could you explain why you are suspicious of me then?PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:That 2nd sentence in the quote isn't even about you, I'm addressing Glork in the post and that 2nd sentence is referring to HIM.
Only the first sentence is referring to you and I've certainly not mischaracterized you in that first sentence.
I'd also like to see you respond to DP's question about the townie PM.
I'm not sure what to think of DP's claim. I'm beginning to think people completely missed my remark that my verse is similar to RoadBird's. I don't see a good reason to reveal the exact number at this point, although it should be obvious it is another 107. Weak masons make sense in that regard. And, might I add, the kind of creative use of the theme I would expect from our mod.-
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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Job 14:14 seems like an odd verse for scum. No mention of sin at all. I'm inclined to go with Glork's interpretation. After all, the "renewal" mentioned can't apply to EnderX, because he'd simply be lynched if resurrected. A connection there seems obvious.
Fritzler's "miscount" does make me uneasy. It's an easy excuse. I agree with Glork that CA's comment there is strange and that sort of implicit defence is suspicious.
I think we're in a good position. Looking at the players alive:
Ameliaslay (replacing Coron)
Commodore Amazing
Dragon Phoenix (replacing Mastermind of Sin) - claimed Townie
Fritzler
Glork (replacing Kerplunk)
inHimshallibe - cleared by LML
LoudmouthLee (replacing Iammars) - claimed cop
mith - 107 verse/cleared by LML
RoadBird - 107 verse
the silent speaker - Job 14:13 - resurrected night 4
VisMaior - claimed power role/cleared by LML
I'm inclined to trust DP, because there was no pressure to claim (though I still feel it was ill-advised) which leaves four players for the moment. I'm hoping LML's result will help further.-
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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Mackay, a mason recruiter and a four-person "weak" mason group does strike me as odd, but I find it hard to believe that a cult recruiter would reveal his recruitment in-game. Especially with his willingness to out last night's recruit. That was, however, gut feeling.
I'm still inclined to think Fritz is at least not aware of his cult leader status if he is cult, but CA's claim does present solid evidence that is hard to get around.
His role just doesn't make sense if there's not something fishy there. Especially with the ambiguity in his verse I don't believe he had an ability that could possibly be detrimental to the town. That leads me to the conclusion that bringing LML out of the "masonship" was good for the town.
Vote: Fritzler-
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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This confused me yesterday. Who did you investigate whom you were was scum? And if it gives you certainty, where does the 90% come from?LoudmouthLee wrote:Because I was able to be recruited to Fritz's Masonry, I MUST be a naive cop. Rationale: Vis was a doc and he was UNRECRUITABLE. I investigated someone whom I was sure was scum last night, and they came innocent.
#2) I am a naive cop. (90% sure)
LML, could you clarify?-
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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Mith is lying. I am the final cultist. He turned up unrecruitable last night. LML specifically stated it wasn't mith was so that we could attempt to recruit mith and mith wouldn't be able to counterclaim me the next day. That way, if mith turns out town, cult has a majority and if mith turns up scum, he can't counterclaim. A win either way.
Mith is our last killer.
Vote: mith-
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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Addressed? Why would LML say that? Shielding is nonsense, there was no need to shield. Think about this CA and Amelia, why would LML make that comment? Why make a future claim more difficult if mith was his cult buddy?mith wrote:I've already addressed LML's comment, and it's motivation. The two of us were so pissed off at Fritz that we had agreed to attempt to survive the game together and draw. He was trying to keep me alive (and got himself killed for it).Crossing out mith in thread and attempting to recruit him guarantees a win.
A simple matter? An easy way of fitting in far-fetched speculation. Interesting also how you discounted RoadBird picking up on your role hints in your claim then, yet now find it likely that I did. You're twisting the perspective to fit your interpretation.mith wrote:1. How would SK mith be able to come up with such a claim as a same-verse mason *before* one of the other masons came out? Not I only would I have to come up with the idea for verse-confirming masons on day 1 (otherwise, why choose that verse to plant?), I'd have to *find* verses like that, get quite lucky in them actually turning up in the game, and get even more lucky in not claiming one that someone else actually has. All so I could come out and save Roadbird at the last moment. Yeah, that makes sense...
Once Roadbird had claimed though, it would be a simple matter for VitaminRscum to look at the chapter, notice how there's 4 verses the same, and start hinting at being one of them (not ever actually claiming which). I pinned myself to one from the start, before I could have even known about them. This should be plenty on its own.
This puzzled me too, until I noticed you gave it away yourself in your claim:
[quote="mith]"Psalm 107:31. There's four identical verses in Psalm 107; I think it might be some sort of weakened mason type role. I wouldn't put it past Cadmium to have left one asa safe scum claim, though I'm not sure how this would've been done considering all anyone was sent was a verse and whether they needed to send a choice. Even so, I see no reason to lynch Roadbird today. I expect to die tonight for this, but a clever scum probably would've picked up on what I was hinting at anyway.[/quote]
And honestly, how does your role-hinting make sense otherwise? Why would a townie want to breadcrumb his verse? It makes perfect sense for scum setting up a claim.
That's a weak argument. I couldn't have claimed earlier, I wasn't on.mith wrote:2. The first point was "I claimed first", and the second is like it: I claimed cultist first.
Let's say I'm the SK, and I want to come out as the last cultist to try to get the real cultist (or anyone, for that matter; the SK wouldn't care) lynched. I have three choices I can go after. But if I pick the wrong one, the real cultist comes out, and I get lynched. That didn't happen. Either I got pretty lucky... or I really am the cultist.
VitaminR on the other hand, claimed after me. He knew who the real cultist was, and his only option (well, other than the ones I mentioned at the start, which were to him equally futile, and did not have the plus of casting doubt on my cult claim) was to go after me. There's no chance involved here; after my claim, he already knows who tried to recruit him, and doesn't have to guess.
You had three choices to go after? That's just misrepresentation. CA was confirmed by LML. 50% chance. The point is, mith, you had no other option. LML's comment prevents an effective counter-claim. The only way you would appear believable was if you guessed and claimed first. Gutsy, but ultimately the only viable option.
Now this is really cheap. You have been around long enough to know the rules about outside and inside thread communication. Purposefully naively pretending in order to score credit points.mith wrote:3. And the third reason... I have chat logs with LML. It seems unsporting to actually use them, but if the mod approves and the town insists, I will.-
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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Psalm 107:21.Commodore Amazing wrote:Hi, I'm here. I'm going to do a reread, but before I make the final vote I want a couple of things clarified.
VitaminR, if you haven't claimed your original role (can't remember), please do so.
VitaminR, what night were you recruited? Who else was part of the cult?
I was recruited night 5. I was told I could communicate with Fritz and LML.-
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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I have decided to cut the quotes in order to address everything in a clearer structure. Hope the clarity is preserved.
LML's comment
Mith, I know you already put forth shielding as a justificiation, but it doesn't make sense. Why would LML need to protect you? Give me one clear reason. What specific action does it prevent? The cult buddy getting night-killed is an advantage to the cult because it leaves LML, confirmed and trusted by the town, alive.
Claiming/breadcrumbs
I had the line in my head, not the verse number. That's why I didn't see the similarity until I saw the content of the verse.
You're assuming I looked up RoadBird's verse, somehow knew that there were identical psalms (how would I know this?) and decided to gamble on a weak mason interpretation. Then why didn't I bring it up? Why would I hold back information? Also, if I was setting up a fake claim, wouldn't I take care not to look hesitant?
Your interpretation seems to rely on unbelievable ingenuity on my part, yet hinge on my hesitancy in it.
Safe claim
I don't see how you can exclude safe claims based on the rules. This is a fallacy, because you're leaping to a conclusion that is not supported by the warrant properly. You have not provided a reason why it should be stated in the rules. You have also overlooked the perfectly reasonable explanation that the SK was given a mason safe claim to gain an edge.
Math
I really can't follow your numbers. It is based on several assumptions that have no evidence for them and it present a skewed perspective.
Similarly, you could look at the situation before you claimed and list this:
1. CA SK, VitaminR Cult. 1/12
2. CA SK, mith Cult. 1/12
3. CA SK, Amelia Cult. 1/12 etc.
Or after you claimed:
1. mith SK, VitaminR Cult. 1/2
2. VitaminR SK, mith Cult. 1/2
The numbers are in your favour in your example, because you choose a perspective that allows you to draw in other possibilities concerning my claim but not concerning yours. It does not establish anything other than the fact that you claimed first.
I will build my case against mith in the following post, also for clarity reasons.-
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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Ameliaslay and CA, ask yourself these questions:
1) Why would LML rule out mith? What purpose does this comment have? It obstructs mith's claim for a reason. Because it was intended to do so.
2) Why did mith claim so early? If he is cult, he knows the SK (because of LML's comment) has a false idea of who the remaining cultist is. If he waits, the SK will slip up in the claim and out themselves. He claimed early because he had to claim. As SK, taking the gamble was his only shot.
3) Why is mith leaping to poorly supported conclusions, drawing in skewed probability scenarios and trying to muddle the factual evidence by offering to invent paraphrases of night conversations?
The only answer that fits these all these questions is the simple truth:
Mith is the SK.
LML and I set it up so well and I feel I'm screwing it up, but it's still possible it won't cost us.-
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LML's comment
Why would he have that assurance with you? You say he needed you alive, but there still isn't an action you're preventing. My point was, why would scum night-kill LML's cult buddy?
Claiming/breadcrumbs
It is a possibility that someone would set up like that, but it doesn't fit my later behaviour. Coming out with a hesitant claim and waiting for someone else to give it the weak mason interpretation is a huge risk. Also, how would I know there were similar verses out there?
Math
The assumptions do not matter. It is the fact that you choose to depict a situation where the numbers suit you above situations where the numbers are equal for no good reason.-
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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I think I'll start a thread. It didn't really affect this game.mith wrote:
Start a thread, I was going to start one myself anyway, just haven't gotten to it. I'll start a thread on playing for secondary goals, as well, since that came up too.Should I bring that up here or start a thread in the mafia discussion forum?
It didn't matter here, of course. CA could've offered his deal without knowing for sure which of us was the SK, and I would've done the same thing from there.
Oh, btw. Were you a Psalm verse, VR, or something else?
I had a psalm verse safe claim. Nowhere near as ingenuitive as you made me out to be, so I think most of the praise I'm getting is a bit unjustified (though thanks, Mackay. Great avatar, btw!).
I'll post some comments and explain my choices later.-
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I was convinced Amelia was the cultist. I thought the argument I used about LML's comment actually applied and that he made it to recruit you and foil a potential counterclaim. Also, if Fritz tried to use his role investigatively, Amelia is a logical choice.mith wrote:LML could have revealed me as the cultist in hopes that I would get killed and fail in my recruit; I don't know if VitaminR was unsure who the cultist was or what, maybe he would've killed LML anyway, but maybe not.
He also could have sold me out and gotten me lynched, while pointing out Mackay as one scum and shooting for some variation of a Prisoner's Dilemma, but that would've been risky.
I considered night-killing Amelia because of that (with you being recruited as I presumed I would lose anyway so my only chance was to stop the recruitment), but decided in the end that the recruitment probably wouldn't be stopped and that my best shot was hoping that I was wrong and counter-claiming.
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