![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
Will read this weekend.
Is that all? Defense, forthcoming or already posted?Albert B. Rampage wrote:I can live with that.StrangerCoug wrote:ABR are the two people I'd be happiest with killing.
That's all fine and dandy if you do not want people tunneling on Toogeloo, but there is a difference between encouraging discussion about someone else and forcing discussion about someone else. I'd be fine with your statements if you merely said you thought we had bigger fish to fry, but talking like he's not a lynch option is unsettling.Albert B. Rampage wrote:I think we should concentrate on scum that can still strike today. We can come back to the maggot if we think he's scum tomorrow.
Regardless of my alignment, your side is the one that is hurt by throwing in the towel. Let's look at the combinations from someone else's viewpoint:DrippingGoofball wrote:Moar opportunistic scum.StrangerCoug wrote:Ah, to hell with it. If she wants to die, then she can pay the price.
Strike: DrippingGoofball
I dislike the Wraith wagon in general. There are people I don't address; however, I wanted to focus on the people on the DrippingGoofball wagon since I think I'll be able to get more information about that than about the ABR/Toog pairing.Kublai Khan wrote:I don't see what's wrong with my push against Wraith. You can make the tired "playing games is fun!" argument, and many people have. But Wraith's "I'd prefer not to break the game, guys" just sounds so... whiny. To list a preference in Mafia is to say "I'd rather do this, but whatever you want guys". It's like he's a weather-vane, ready to point in whatever direction the majority of town wants.StrangerCoug wrote:Kublai Khan:His posts post-bandwagon look OK in ISO, but I have problems with his early game. What I hate the most about his play is his push on Wraith for being against breaking the game. ReaperCharlie is not an idiot and neither are his reviewers. You want to know why it's better to play in the spirit of the game? Because we probably have to. To give a different setup for simplicity's sake, it's kind of hard to break a 9:3 mountainous, isn't it?
So, why is my dislike of Wraith worse than anyone else?
I stated why.Kublai Khan wrote:WTF is with the rash of people who are quick to say shit like "I don't like his posts" but aren't actually following it up with why or try to ask me any questions for clarification? Nachomamma8, Albert B. Rampage, Kise, and now you StrangerCoug.. There's even a couple of votes on me from people testing the water to see if a wagon is possible.StrangerCoug wrote:His attack on Bunnylover is barely any better. That he attacks Bunnylover for thinking all votes are lynch votes and stating BL has never heard of pressure votes is weak. You vote someone outside of RVS, you had better be willing for that person to die.
I'm more inclined to go after ABR.Kublai Khan wrote:Actually, about that.. In your Albert B. Rampage/Toogeloo pairing conclusion, which of the two do you think is more likely to be scum?StrangerCoug wrote:I dislike the Wraith wagon in general. There are people I don't address; however, I wanted to focus on the people on the DrippingGoofball wagon since I think I'll be able to get more information about that than about the ABR/Toog pairing.
Not true. I was arguing with the semantics of your statement, not that having a preference for something is a tell.Kublai Khan wrote:Eh.. You know better than that, StrangerCoug. I thought his preference in context was scummy, you're arguing that preference as a hard rule isn't a good scum-tell.StrangerCoug wrote:I also disagree about what is meant by "preference" as I don't think the "whatever you want" part applies per se. For example, before the DGB pile-up, I said I wanted one of the people I suspect are buddies dead; however, I also said lynching Hrezs is fine. Did I have a preference? Obviously. Was I fine with drawing a random name out of a hat and then lynching that person? No, and nobody in this game ever was.
OK, this makes better sense.Kublai Khan wrote:Well if you're arguing semantics, then you're also wrong. Your described actions were a compromise. You were willing to lynch ABR/Toog, but compromised and settled for someone else who you didn't have any strong town feeling for. Your action resulted in a specific action towards a specific goal (Vote -> Strike -> Lynch)
What Wraith did was state a preference, without putting any strength or weigh behind it. Not the same.
Going after Friend.ThAdmiral wrote:@ everyone: kagelord or friend - pick a side.
Wait, am I all of a sudden on drugs? Last time I checked, IC stood for "inexperienced challenged". Not something I call myself, but the term has positive connotations, not negative. What's the vest all about, as well?Kast wrote:-If the DSK will help us out with a day kill (@DSK-go for StrangerCoug, he's very likely IC and I doubt he has the vest since he isn't under threat/suspicion)
See above.Kast wrote:-The jump to DGB fits with the IC read.
That may be, especially since it's true I think MagnaofIllusion is town, but my intent with the post was to state agreement with him. Agreeing with people is not a scumtell.Kast wrote:-Here StrangerCoug tries to buddy MoI.
Apparently, the nighttime serial killer being dead doesn't help you.ThAdmiral wrote:Furthermore I don't feel like much more discussion is going to help. This game is not going to become any clearer until at least one scum flips. I am getting pretty antsy to strike tbh.
I am male.Toogeloo wrote:This should not absolve StrangerCoug of any suspicion on her person that she may be DSK, member of the Skull-Crushers, or the Town Inner Circle member.
Quoted for truth. The plan seemed off before reading the response, and this explains why to me.Toogeloo wrote:Easily manipulable by a scum team if they want to get a mislynch against town (assuming we roleblock two town). Just don't send a kill in, and next thing you know we are mislynching town twice as we guess which of the two players we blocked were scum.camn wrote:A) Open blocking lets us know who is NOT the leaders of each scumteam.. that is, if 2 kills go though, we missed twice.
ONly 2 players can nightkill right now, right? So if we start to build a database of who those players ARE NOT, then that=win.
Of course, there are many reasons a kill could miss, so thats why we need point b.
VOTE: ThAdmiral. Starting a competing strike wagon for the sake of starting a competing strike wagon doesn't really help matters. Sorry. I'd strike if it were not for this from MagnaofIllusion:ThAdmiral wrote:/strike: kagelord
Competing strike wagons ftw.
I'm starting to get a little more weary of Albert B. Rampage. It seems like he thinks heMagnaofIllusion wrote:Since we have already breached a number of strikes I’d much prefer for people to continue to use votes to cast their suspicions. We still have the chance to make sure we have a kill everyone just doesn’t ‘settle’ for.
I prefer just going after the top suspect since I do not believe ThAdmiral and KageLord have the same alignment and I more strongly suspect ThAdmiral, but the Kublai Khan/KageLord split is decent too.Kast wrote:-I would like everyone who has not yet struck to EXPLICITLY state whether they think we should Block AND Lynch among KK/Kage OR whether it would be better to ignore that and just Lynch the top suspect.
Here's a hint: I have no reason to direct the DSK to players I think are town; therefore, Friend and Toogeloo are two of my suspects. I think Albert B. Rampage has tied himself closely to the latter as well.Lady Lambdadelta wrote:StrangerCoug wrote:I prefer just going after the top suspect since I do not believe ThAdmiral and KageLord have the same alignment and I more strongly suspect ThAdmiral, but the Kublai Khan/KageLord split is decent too.Kast wrote:-I would like everyone who has not yet struck to EXPLICITLY state whether they think we should Block AND Lynch among KK/Kage OR whether it would be better to ignore that and just Lynch the top suspect.
In my opinion, the DSK should kill either Friend or Toogeloo.
Jesus SC, still as passive as ever.
Tell me, beyond KK/Kage/Admiral, who is scum?
In other words, beyond the top three suspects and wagon threats today, who is scum and why?
So?Toogeloo wrote:Delicious irony of the current strike votals is that each of Magna, SC, and Nacho have expressed distaste in me...
Nice OMGUS, LadyLambdadelta. Toward the end of yesterday, I complained that ThAdmiral was being made into the new DrippingGoofball, implying that people were striking just to get somebody lynched with no real reasoning behind the strike. When I said that either scum is taking advantage of this or town is apathetic, you went from telling me that town is apathetic to both that and scum were piling on ThAdmiral. You've clearly stated that you just wanted a player dead; you can die yourself.Lady Lambdadelta wrote:StrangerCoug wrote:My reads haven't changed by much. Toogeloo and Albert B. Rampage are tied together and I feel more strongly about ABR-scum; Friend needs to get the hell in here and post decent, coherent cases; and my Lady Lambdadelta worries have strengthened with AlmasterGM's flipas I believe both of them struck just to get somebody lynched.
VOTE: Lady Lambdadelta andHoS: Albert B. Rampage
Because, you know,WE COULD TOTALLY STRIKE SOMEONE ELSE AT THAT POINT IN TIME?
You're SO scum.
What empirical evidence? If you mean a case, I still think that you blowing your Day 1 strike like you did is scummy, and I think Albert B. Rampage connected himself to you by telling people to ignore you for that. Hence the "quelching discussion" attack on him. If Albert B. Rampage flips town, then depending on your actions I may allow some slack, but if he flips scum and the possibility exists that he has a living partner, you're dead meat at this point. It takes more than that to throw me off you.Toogeloo wrote:StrangerCoug has made it his personal mission to try and either have me beaten to death or shot every day.
I would like to see this empirical evidence to support the notion though.
Lady Lambdadelta wrote:HOW FUCKING STUPID ARE YOU?
HOW AM I OMGUSing YOU, WHEN I CALLED YOU SCUM FIRST?
On April 4 at 4:59 PM MDT, StrangerCoug wrote:My town reads on AlmasterGM and Lady Lambdadelta have committed suicide.
Did you call me scum prior to April 4?On April 7 at 5:39 PM MDT, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:Toog/SC/KK is my most likely scum team.
I'm really sold on SC scum.
Try practicing what you preach. You effectively agreed with me that the game is going sour, then called me scummy? How does that work?Lady Lambdadelta wrote:Try NOT using false information next time, ok?
So I'm delusional. Regardless of my sanity, I don't buy the WIFOM defense of the connection.Lady Lambdadelta wrote:StrangerCoug wrote:Wake up and smell the coffee, Lady Lambdadelta. I was worried about you and AlmasterGM prior to ThAdmiral's death. AlmasterGM flipped scum and you weren't all that different from him at the end of Day 2, so I'm connecting the dots.
Tell me, Lady Lambdadelta, did you have aGENUINE REASONto want ThAdmiral lynched?
AGM was tunnelling the fuck out of me.
If you're connecting a scum team with he and I, you're delusional.
We have too much scum in the game for allowing a mislynch to happen to be good strategy. Counting the Inner Circle as part of that faction only, this game started as 13:3:3:3:1:1. We are now at 9:3:2:2:1. The next townie to die will put us at parity with the combined scum unless we hit them first.Lady Lambdadelta wrote:I could see some of the points that were brought up about ThAdmiral SC, but I wanted Friend lynched yesterday.
The fact is, if I had struck anyone else, it would have been adetrimentto town.
And you would be here telling me I was scum for striking who I thought was a better lynch.
Where did I say you could?Lady Lambdadelta wrote:Are you fucking stupid? You can't take back strikes.
This is a scum-heavy game. Sometimes not lynching is an acceptable alternative.Lady Lambdadelta wrote:So when 11 people have struck ThAd, and there are 4 voters left, NOT striking the leading wagon is BAD. It means potentially a no lynch could occur.
And at that point, ThAd was the only one who COULD be lynched.
So you're splitting up the Inner Circle into their nominal alignments. Fine, but I think you're missing a townie.Albert B. Rampage wrote:9:3:3:1StrangerCoug wrote:We have too much scum in the game for allowing a mislynch to happen to be good strategy. Counting the Inner Circle as part of that faction only, this game started as 13:3:3:3:1:1. We are now at 9:3:2:2:1. The next townie to die will put us at parity with the combined scum unless we hit them first.
Three mafia left (goon, RB, Framer). Two mafia are inner circle. One SK.
See post #925. My case on her is not having much of a good reason for striking ThAdmiral, which I called out before she made it clear she was suspecting me. AlmasterGM didn't have a good reason either and flipped scum.Kast wrote:His LLD *case* is hardly one. She is scummy, but he's clearly and obviously OMGUSing.
I yell at Lady Lambdadelta for her weak ThAdmiral strike and you do this? Are you insane?Toogeloo wrote:Day Killer is assuredly just making sure that whomever he kills isn't going to be lynched anyways. Counter-productive to kill someone who will die anyways. He could kill before strikes are made, but once strikes start flying he is better off waiting until a death almost assured.
I'm also gonna strike now...
Strike: Prince Albert B. Rampage in a Can
Toogeloo wrote:Here is where the "Must Strike" mentality fucks with town.
Who folds and decides to just strike those already struck? Does scum hunting end... etc.. etc... etc....
See, people are afraid that if they try to go any other direction, then no one will get lynched, and yet everyone bitches that (despite only a low number of strikes having been made thus far) one of the people struck must be the lynch for the day.
How do you know that lynching one Inner Circle member will automatically get rid of the other two? We asked the mod about this earlier and he refused to answer.Baby Spice wrote:MoI is IC, Toog is IC, ABR is possibly IC.
Lynch MoI or Toog, IC get removed then we can hunt the 'normal' scum using more 'normal' methods.
The possibility exists. So you think Baby Spice is bussing Toogeloo?Lady Lambdadelta wrote:I wonder...
Does anyone else get the feeling that Baby Spice is scum, and that she is pushing for a Toogaloo lynch because she suspects him of being the IC in her faction?
I hate this sentence. True or not (that's not how I interpreted Baby Spice's statement, so I'm inclined to believe no), Lady Lambdadelta is attacking Baby Spice for thinking we can only lynch two people after I attacked her for thinking we can only lynchLady Lambdadelta wrote:I'm not letting you slide through today on the false dichotomy that there can only be two wagons today.
Let's forget the end of yesterday for a brief moment and go into a hypothetical situation. I want your answer.Lady Lambdadelta wrote:Yet again, the situations are different.
Today, we have 11 people left to vote, so lots of possibilities are available.
When I voted yesterday, there were only 4 votes left, and thus, only 1 person who was within lynch threshold.
And lynching someone is always better than a no lynch. Always.
I'll save this for later.Lady Lambdadelta wrote:For someone who claims to understand the mechanics, your lack of understanding is shining through.
The yes/no part is the same for me. I still support the Toogeloo-Albert B. Rampage pair, but MagnaofIllusion and Baby Spice are not suspicious to me.KageLord wrote:Gd people. Slow it down.
Okay, how about everyone that hasn't struck yet says which lynch(es) they would be down for today before we do anything else?
ABR: Yes
MoI: No
Toog: Yes
BS: No
The main reason why I say no to MoI and BS is that we have 2 much better lynches open for today. I wouldn't be shocked if 3/4 of these were scum, but I would rather take out the ones I'm more sure of first. If DSK wants to shoot someone on this list that isn't going to be lynched though, that would be mutually beneficial.
Hint: Numbers.Lady Lambdadelta wrote:Why don't you answer it then SC?
Because I see what you're doing, and it's a very deliberately narrow view.
Counting the IC separately, ThAdmiral's death put us at a ratio of 9:3:3:3:1. That meant we lost the majority. (Fortunately, we've regained it for now.) Leaving ThAdmiral alive would have kept us at parity going into Night 2. As we would have had one additional townie left, there would have been fewer situations that would have cost the town the majority. If Lady Lambdadelta had made a decent attempt at a ThAdmiral case, I would have simply gone "OK, we were wrong," and this argument would not have happened. She made no such attempt, and neither did AlmasterGM, who has flipped scum.Kublai Khan wrote:@StrangerCoug: I would like you to take a minute to spell out the benefit of a Day 2 no-lynch you were talking to lady Lambdadelta about. It's probably very simple and feel free to berate me as an idiot that needs a grown-up's hand to cross the street, but I really haven't been following the logic of any of your reads. Either your scum trying to push bad logic, or I'm just not on the same page, so I'd like a point of common ground.
It may not be, but only having the plurality seems a bit suboptimal to me.Kublai Khan wrote:Okay, but I guess I'm failing to see how losing the majority is a major negative result since we'd still have the plurality of the votes...
Even if you're aware that that adds up to the number of players alive now, how did you get that?Albert B. Rampage wrote:9:3:3:1:1StrangerCoug wrote:Counting the IC separately, ThAdmiral's death put us at a ratio of 9:3:3:3:1. That meant we lost the majority.
Still have majority.
The Inner Circle cannot win with the town if I understand it correctly.Albert B. Rampage wrote:What I don't understand is why you would count the IC seperately. That doesn't make any sense. There are 9 players with town win conditions, and 8 with anti-town win conditions. Get it straight.
SuboptimalKublai Khan wrote:So in your attack on Lady Lambadelta, you're arguing that it was scummy of her not to pursue a no lynch because we could have been dropped to a plurality, which would be sub-optimal at worst..
Am I grasping the argument correctly? (again, yes I know I'm an idiot for needing such a high level of clarifty)
There was relevance—sometimes no-lynching is correct. If you think that striking somebody you really don't suspect that much for being the only viable lynch is correct, then I'd like to hear how this is so. Until I hear it, my case stands.Plum wrote:Yeah, I love the 'no-Lynch isn't always anti-Town' position as much as the next guy, but strawmanning someone to bolster your misrepping attack on her isn't showing it to its best effect. I mean, really - 'Let's forget the actual relevant scenario so I can attempt to sound less dumb by pointing out an obvious exception which has no relevance to my original point'. Let's not and say we did, eh?