Square Enix Mafia Gaiden: The Outsiders (Game Over)

[PranaDevil]

vote: Katsuki

Because... well, why not?

[PranaDevil]

Awesome speedy wagon a go-go!

unvote
vote: Ender

Also, howdy bristep, forgot you were joining us in this one

[PranaDevil]

ender is likely town.

bill is likely scum. Looks to be trying to just find a reason to hop on the Jedo wagon for my money.

unvote
vote: bill

[PranaDevil]

Yep, bill's scum. He's pretending not to understand the difference between searching for a reason to hop on a wagon, and hopping on a wagon to get reactions.

[PranaDevil]

Why is Jedo likely town? Because you, bill, are searching for a way to appear pro-town by hopping onto a popular wagon. I don't believe your reasons are genuine, instead I believe you saw the Jedo wagon picking up steam, and wanted to get on it a.s.a.p. but had to come up with some reason to appear like it deserved your vote.

Your post where you voted him, for instance, only had him mentioned in regards to him jumping on a wagon for reactions. That much is obvious based on his post. It was only after that where you decided you had better put more to it. Hence quoting his other post and making some comments on that. Why not do it when voting him? Why not show good solid reasons why you are voting him if you are going to be quoting stuff anyway?

Answer - Because you were making it up as you went along.

[PranaDevil]

ender wagon was obviously full of people aiming for reactions. Would have been a dangerous wagon to get onto that late for scum if they actually planned to get a lynch from it.

[PranaDevil]

I don't believe your reasons are genuine, instead I believe you saw the Jedo wagon picking up steam, and wanted to get on it a.s.a.p. but had to come up with some reason to appear like it deserved your vote.

My first post of the game and I looked through the posts and picked what I felt was the scummiest among them. If you don't agree with me, kindly explain WHY you don't agree with me and tell me who you find scummier, rather than spinning this into a "lol you fourth on the wagon you scum."

Never said "lol you fourth on the wagon you scum" or anything of the sort. Stop attempting to deflect my argument by claiming it's something it's not.

Your post where you voted him, for instance, only had him mentioned in regards to him jumping on a wagon for reactions. That much is obvious based on his post.

Um, no. It obviously isn't obvious. I didn't vote for him because he wagoned randomly, I voted for him because his post read like he was admitting that he didn't think ender was scum and that he doesn't care who dies Day 1.

He didn't vote randomly, he deliberately voted ender to gauge reactions. I even said that in the part of my post you are quoting. So why are we pretending he voted randomly now? Or are we once again pretending the issue is something entirely different from what it actually is, in an attempt to deflect the wagon?

Here's a hint: The issue is that he was fishing for reactions on the ender wagon. Hence why he voted someone he didn't believe to be scum so early. Same reason I voted ender so early. Same reason a lot of others did as well.

It was only after that where you decided you had better put more to it. Hence quoting his other post and making some comments on that.

In my first post, I voted Jedo based on his first post (I had yet to read his second post). I found what he said to be scummier than any of the other posts I had read at that time.

Either you need to re-learn how to play (I don't believe that for the record) or you are lying scum. Town should be taking note of everything said, not voting based on half of the information available thus far. Yet that's what you just admitted doing. I expect less experienced players to screw up by making actions before fully reading the thread, not an experienced player. Hence why you quite clearly needed to attempt to bolster your argument. Because your original one was non-existant.

[PranaDevil]

Did anyone understand the Prana/GW interaction about bill?

Go read bill's posts. Then tell me does it look like a legitimate vote on a wagon, or does it look someone trying to search for reasons to get on a moving wagon?

Personally I find it's number 2.

[PranaDevil]

Huge difference between "you're fourth on the wagon and so scum" and "you're just stretching for reasons to get on a budding wagon".

And so what if he thought ender was town when he voted? If the point is to get reactions, then it doesn't matter if you think they're town or not.

Of course not everyone on the ender wagon is town, some are scum sliding onto it for the sake of it. Jedo obviously wasn't that what with the whole admitting that he didn't think ender was scum at that point and all.

Never said to quote every post in the game. I DO expect you to READ the entire thread before hopping on a wagon, and you can be damned sure I expect you to do more than vote someone based on a single post, and then attempt to make up more reasons afterwards. Which is exactly what you did.

All you've done so far is try a deflecting tactic on what I've said against you. Also as far as me being a dunce is concerned... do you not remember SEIII, where I was the one, and only, person to actually catch you as scum?

[PranaDevil]

Hmm, guess I should post.

Bill's still scum.

DRK appears to be following the pack while pretending not to. So possibly scum.

Vezok looks like he might be trying to buddy with me from my exchange with bill. Almost nobody thinks I'm town day 1. I don't trust people who seem that sure of my towniness day 1.

I'm not seeing the cases on Jedo (who is coming across as town wording things exceptionally badly to me. Scum would be suicidal to be saying what he's saying), nor on ender, nor on diddin at this stage.

[PranaDevil]

@Prana-What do you think of Fritz?

Just checked him in ISO. I'm not liking that at all. Initial buddying with Jedo, then insults everyone for wagoning Jedo, then states he wont lynch Jedo day 1 period. Only to talk bollocks about Buffy at the end for no apparent reason.

Next post sees him say he would happily lynch Jedo day 2, despite the fact if he seems scummy on day 1, we should be lynching him then. Then would only lynch him with something like a day cop result (which is admitting he wont care if Jedo makes a slip that everyone else picks up on and he didn't, if indeed Jedo is scum), anti-town at the best of times there, and now has answered a question posed at myself and Merns, seemingly to just pop his head in.

So, so far his entire game has been to say how he likes Jedo personally and refuses to lynch him. Either really terrible scum buddies, or Fritz is scum and Jedo is either town, or opposing scum.

I prefer the bill vote though. But I'd be happy to lose fritz today after that.

Also, I'm V/LA from now until Monday at about 6pm GMT

Acknowledged.

[PranaDevil]

Dry, right now, it likely wont, and it likely wont stick because another direction has opened since I've been away it would appear. But I'd rather my vote was somewhere, and showing my top suspect at a time, than sitting on nobody at all.

Nero, you asked specifically which ISO # it was. That to me would suggest you knew about the ISO numbers and how ISO 0 is their first post, ISO 1 is their second etc. So I'm not buying any of what you're selling here.

unvote
vote: Nero Cain

I mean, not only was it a really terrible argument to begin with, but you have the guy who ran the game in here as well, which makes me wonder why you thought lying about what was said in the game would be a good idea. (Unless you remembered me not paying much attention in the old RK games from about a year ago).

[PranaDevil]

Why is it irrelevant? If you have valid scumspects what purpose does an unvote without a different vote serve?

Analyzing the game better, dunno. Fact is, a lot of people do this. A lot of people get

lynched

for doing this. And I find it stupid and sad.

Even if it was a valid tell on this site (which it isn't) it's not on bristep as he's come here from another forum that we play Mafia on, where, for some inexplicable reason, everyone thinks it's anti-town to not have your vote doing something at all points in the game, preferring instead to not vote at all until they actually want to lynch someone. Leading to rushed lynches at the last minute as nobody knows where anyone elses vote may be going, no ability to read wagons, and no chance for players to claim their role and perhaps judge things based off that. As by that point it's too late.

Now, that being said, he could still be scum, but his unvote isn't a reason to suspect him at this stage.

[PranaDevil]

ITT bill fails to understand reading comprehension.

[PranaDevil]

How's about the post I made immediately before you came in talking bollocks? That might be a great place to start.

[PranaDevil]

About where I showed WHY it's not a valid tell, because it's the way everyone plays on the site he originates from? That reasoning as to why it's not a tell? The logical and understandable one? That bit you mean?

Yep, that's the bit I mean. No shock you weren't paying attention to it of course and pretending to just gloss over it what with you being scum and all of course.

[PranaDevil]

Have fun - http://ukff.com/index.php?showtopic=124285

I'll note that by page 10, and the first vote count, only 9 people actually have votes placed. But feel free to have fun reading the entire game. Or search for any other Mafia games on the site, they all pretty much pan out in a similar way outside of a small handful who keep their votes in play most of the time.

[PranaDevil]

Not

everyone

was fence-sitting. My point. But I disgress. I'll withhold my vindication for the time being, since this may be a common practice for bristep.

Still, my main emphasis (and I think you misread this) was not so much on bristep specifically as it was on the fact that you said that fence-sitting was not a valid tell on THIS SITE, which is completely inaccurate.

Agreed, not everyone fence sits. Myself (Mike Castle) and Nexus rarely have a wandering vote. But a lot of the others do nothing at all with their votes for much of the game.

Also, it ISN'T a valid tell, for a variety of reasons:
1 - Player is new to this site and could be used to playing that way.
2 - Player is new to mafia in general and thinks it would be wrong to vote too often.
3 - Player is a bit dim and has yet to learn that voting is good information on this site.
4 - Player unvoted and is in the process of checking his thoughts/the current votes to see if s/he should vote.

That's just off the top of my head. Obviously if you know a player's style well enough and know they only unvote without re-voting when they're scum, then it's a valid tell. It's automatically not valid for any game thereafter the second anyone points out why it's a tell, because that player also now knows to avoid doing it. So really, it's not all that valid to begin with.

[PranaDevil]

Much as I want to return to bill, and he definitely needs a lynching. ender is obviously today's lynch. Bill can wait on the back burner for tomorrow.

vote: ender

And Fate's blatant town right now.

[PranaDevil]

Glork replaces Untrod Tripod.

Thank fuck for that.

I was worried I may wind up hating this game entirely as it was beginning to feel like it was dragging (ender should have been lynched by now for christ sake).

I at least propose we wait for a hammer until Glork's made a good go over of things and given us his initial thoughts.

[PranaDevil]

Not sure if you've played in a game with Glork before, but in the past SE games he's been in, without him around town would have lost. Plain and simple. We've started well, but (and I include myself in this) I feel that the majority are no longer moving forward, and are just following others (in some cases being blatant about it). Glork's likely to step in and shake some shit up. Which is desperately needed at this stage.

[PranaDevil]

No, it's "Glork's going to kickstart the game into gear and hopefully we can all move forward and start working again", seriously, since we returned from night we had a solid lead on ender, and bill's been obv. scum. Either one should have been lynched by now, and instead we're still meandering through aimlessly with people just going "hey, I'll sheep Fate now".

[PranaDevil]

So Fate, are you going to tell me that when Chrono handed our group over to the scum and destroyed all the town PR's singlehandedly, that Glork didn't play a blinder in managing to convince the final two scums that they each had to kill the other, without making it obvious what he was doing to them?

What about the fact that it was him that pretty much won SE 1 for us?

I'd say that's much more evidence for him than "he mislynched once when Dramonic was acting scummy as fuck" wouldn't you?

And LMP, you can say they're phony all you want. I know they're not. And yes, the game has been floundering. But go on then, this day phase, tell me what we've gained beyond "ender is scum" and "more people are realizing bill is scum, something I spotted day one".

[PranaDevil]

Glork, sorry, but bill is blatantly scum.

[PranaDevil]

2 red dead, 1 purple dead. Therefore I'm prioritizing Purple, or else we could end up with something like a 1-1-2 scenario.

We're less likely to end up with a 1-1-2 scenario if we concentrate on wiping out a single scum team first. Alternating between them is going to leave more scum open to killing us off. Anyone who's on the ball at the moment (that leaves me out) in regards to spotting which team the scum are on, should aim for red scum, not purple scum. Once we wipe them out entirely there will only be one scum kill a night, not two.

And now I want to vote bill, but can't because some prat will hammer overly quickly if we're not careful. But for the record, that's where my vote should be right now, and will be later on.

[PranaDevil]

Are you really not paying attention, or are you suggesting that it is BETTER for town to have TWO scum teams killing at the same time, rather than destroying one entirely first, and THEN going after the other? I expect an answer.

[PranaDevil]

That's not the question, try answering it. Are you suggesting we should leave TWO scum teams for as long as possible?

That's the only possible way you can get that me suggesting to reduce the amount of town deaths each night relates to me being scum there.

[PranaDevil]

Nono, stop talking bollocks. You're saying I claimed the colour of my scumteam. That means you are claiming I'm purple scum based on my previous suggestion to help town, and it's quite clearly evident you are out and out making shit up as you go along here because you're changing what you say each time. You've also given no reasoning as to why I'm scum, merely stated I have said which colour I am because I suggested we do what is best for the town.

[PranaDevil]

10 scum in a 26 man game?

Well ReaperCharlie apparently did review this setup, but I call shenanigans

Goddamn it, someone hammer. We're scumhunting, and he's like 'lets do setup speculation with my BFF PranaDevil!'

You're an idiot, but yes, a hammer is needed.

vote: bill1148

[PranaDevil]

Back from my V/LA earlier than expected.

Mod, can we have a vote count?

Diddin needs lynched. GreyICE likely does too.

[PranaDevil]

I've pored over his posts and can't find anything indicating that he breadcrumbed Doctor.

If he did, he's lying.

[PranaDevil]

GreyICE seems insistant on trying to get me lynched. I see no town reason to his tunnelling, and have found plenty of what he's said suspect (I'd go searching, but with being away all weekend I have other stuff to do tonight, so don't have enough time to search the entire thread, but I'll do so either Tuesday or Wednesday if people wish to give me a heads up in case I forget).

Diddin because I don't trust his claim, and damned sure don't like the "I fake-claimed doc to draw a scum kill when I'm actually BP". I highly, highly doubt we have a town BP and a town doc in this game. But I am pretty certain we have a roleblocker somewhere around here.

[PranaDevil]

Well, being as I seem to be the chosen target of the vig kill, I guess I may as well treat it as L-1 and claim, so that the vig can actually direct his kill in a better direction.

Kill me and you kill the town doc. Now the vig can direct the kill where it should be going (GreyICE would be a beauty of a kill at this stage), and scum can take me out tonight instead. (Or be stupid and leave me alive to protect people again tomorrow night).

In case anyone wants to know, my night actions:
N1 - Ghostwriter
N2 - Fate
N3 - Fate

The N3 one means I must have been roleblocked somehow, what with Fate still biting a bullet.

[PranaDevil]

So there's absolutely no chance of a scum roleblocker, right? Because town had one, that means it's the only one in the game. Dear christ, how the hell have you two survived playing the game this long?

[PranaDevil]

Ghostwriter gave me a feeling of town day 1. I'm not sure if I just got lucky or if bill was lucky with his roleblock, but it appears somewhere we prevented a kill.

Fate was protected the following two nights as he just came across as obv-town, and so I wanted to make sure he survived as he had been steering us relatively well, and night 3 I considered trying to protect someone else, but then realized I didn't have enough solid town reads to make it worthwhile, so went for Fate again.

[PranaDevil]

Two things. One, I never trust Fate 100% too early, I see what he's doing first. Two, if Fate appears pro-town, scum are inclined to believe he'd be protected early anyway as he's an asset to the town. Ghostwriter seemed to be playing a solid pro-town game but also seemed to be a bit more under the radar compared to some. Thus he was a better choice for my protection than pretty much everyone else.

[PranaDevil]

Incidentally, I'd like to point out your beautiful twisting of what I said from "Fate came across as obv-town" into "Fate was obv-town from the start" which isn't what I said in the slightest. So top marks for either badly twisting my words, or forgetting english.

[PranaDevil]

Oh look, there was a scum Jailkeeper... which would have roleblocked the fuck out of my role the other night. Happy Kat?

vote: GreyICE

[PranaDevil]

Go on then smartarse. Tell me how the kill was prevented if the TOWN DOC didn't do it.

[PranaDevil]

Glork, something you need to know. GreyICE and Katsuki are terrible players. GreyICE is still likely scum, Katsuki may be useless town instead of scum which wouldn't shock me. She hates being wrong and so refuses to acknowledge that fact, and as Fate's not here she can't just sheep him and pretend it's his reads that she's got.

GreyICE however looks very, VERY much like he was beginning this day phase in the hope that everyone was going to mindlessly follow him. As soon as Glork said he wouldn't, he's been lost and confused. I think GreyICE may well be red scum at the moment.

And Jakalope. Wrong. If the scum believe that I will be tomorrow's lynch automatically just because I didn't get killed last night, they wouldn't actually kill me overnight. They would let town do it the next day because it helps them so much more to do it that way. Sounds almost like you are trying to put the idea that I am either today's lynch, or tomorrow's lynch, in everyone's minds.

[PranaDevil]

Yeah, I don't know if I was Jailkept, someone else suggested that my "buddy" jailkept me, lol.

I actually protected Katsuki last night, useless as she is, I'm getting a town vibe from her, and I half guessed that scum would attempt to take her out to frame me, so on the hope that was their idea, I went for that.

One thing that IS worth considering is that the town vig may still have gone for me. Purple scum may, indeed, have jailkept me for the basis of me being an easy lynch today. While the town vig did attempt to take me out over night, only to be blocked because I was jailkept.

Either way, either I was targetted and saved thanks to scum wanting me to be an easy mislynch. Or scum chose not to jailkeep me in favour of someone else, and my protect on Katsuki worked. Personally, unless scum believe they know there's a cop out there, and who it is (doubtful as it would make town overly powerful), I'd be shocked if they didn't jailkeep me in the first place ready to leave me for an easy mislynch today.

[PranaDevil]

Yep, me assuming the vig may have targetted me is me trying to out the vig.

I'll tell you what it does mean, if pops is right about the purple scum kill flavour being the beam of energy, that's the kill flavour which was blocked last night.

That also means Katsuki cannot be Purple scum, as that's the kill that must have been prevented.

Also, thinking about it, I can't have been jailkept last night. Not unless Red can jailkeep in their JOAT stuff, because the purple Jailkeeper was killed. Thus proving that a kill was prevented.

Purple Scum targetted Katsuki, and failed.

[PranaDevil]

pops' sarcasm detector has failed.

[PranaDevil]

Can we please lynch GreyICE now? It's getting pretty damned blatant that he's scum and is ignoring absolutely everything in favour of "let's lynch Prana". Including ignoring anything that shows that his argument fails.

Also, my brain's obviously rattled. Jailkeeper died last night, not previously. Derp. So yeah, I could have been jailkept last night by purple scum still. But it's still Purple scum's kill that we are missing from last night. So GreyICE, tell me why we are missing a purple scum kill if they jailkept me and shot elsewhere? Where did this mystery shot disappear to?

[PranaDevil]

unstoppable beam of energy is purple kill flavor. Let me see if anything else can be deduced..

^
Yep, inside information, namely "pops claimed it in thread"

Why are you saying something, then forgetting it pops?

And no Glork, it was in regards to how Fate still died despite my protecting him.

[PranaDevil]

Bunny, how many players were in the Gorrad game? With 26 players in this one I can see 2 teams of 4. Though you are right, it's plausible red team is gone entirely. But we wont know that for sure until we either lynch Purple and win, or we lynch another red, or we return from night and find 3 kills again. (Or return from night to find the final red scum dead).

I'm also not sure what you're getting at from the second paragraph. If you're saying that because Glork believes I'm the doctor, Glork should be dead, then you're wrong, as Glork initially said I should be vigged yesterday, it was only when we returned to day that he said I was town.

[PranaDevil]

So GreyICE's entire reasoning comes from making up numbers, and choosing that there's only one route for things to happen, and everything outside of it is impossible to happen. Like it's impossible for scum to think "Prana will save Glork, Glork wants Prana vigged anyway, so we'll jailkeep someone else and shoot someone else too". Surely that would be a logical scum tactic? In which case it wouldn't surprise me to find that scum targetted Katsuki and I prevented her dying. I banked on the scums thinking I would protect Glork (and not jailkeeping me, obviously) to prevent them shooting at him, that much appears to have worked.

I'm not ruling out that Glork could be scum, but his play this game has been solidly town.

Basically, at this stage, there's a single claimed doc, GreyICE is simply out to lynch it. Ignore absolutely everything else in game and focus solely on removing the claimed town doc, twisting absolutely everything to get it done if need be, and lie if that's not working. When that doesn't work and someone doesn't agree with him, they're automatically "Prana's buddy" in an attempt to threaten everyone into agreeing with his way of thinking for fear of getting accused.

But anyone who believes lynching an uncounter claimed doc is good town play needs a good slap.

[PranaDevil]

Bunny, none of what you just said made any sense whatsoever.

I didn't know there was a scum jailkeeper prior to the flip, which means speculation now about what may have happened last night in regards to roles that don't involve me is thrown out of the window unless I knew there was a scum jailkeeper? What? That makes zero sense. I know I protected Katsuki last night, that's ALL I know 100%, everything else is me saying what could have happened. I have no clue what land you're on that means what I say now only counts if I knew there was a Jailkeeper last day phase.

Also, your final bit stands out as bollocks for a simple sentence:

Game over for Glork

Yep, Game Over for Glork, but unless scum got really lucky and Glork is the damned vig as well, that vig still lives. That vig is one of scum's biggest problems, so why the hell would scum target Glork who is, maybe, scum's second biggest problem? Possible even third biggest behind me due to the fact I may be able to prevent a kill going through at all?

Glork just explained why the scums are overlooking him, the vig is playing a blinder. So tell me again Bunny, why would scum block me and target Glork, if Glork's not their biggest worry right now?

[PranaDevil]

Well yeah, that's said in hindsight knowing that it was a jailkeeper we were dealing with. Prior to the jailkeeper flip I knew I had been roleblocked due to Fate getting nobbled night 3. Had I said "and not roleblocking me, obviously" it would have been damned stupid, because we know now it's a jailkeeper and not a roleblocker (Unless it was red scum that roleblocked me).

Also, why would they shoot at Katsuki? Here's a few:
To frame me and make my lynch easier.
They're hunting the Vig and may have tried taking out Katsuki.

And you SERIOUSLY cannot see the logic in hunting an accurate vig over shooting Glork? SERIOUSLY?!

[PranaDevil]

What's your point?

Night 3, I protected Fate and was obviously blocked, otherwise Fate would still be here.

Night 4 is speculation. But you're right, the simple fact though is that Bunny is arguing why they would shoot anywhere but Glork. The answer has been explained by both me and Glork (and Glork explained it better). The Jailkeeper thing of course is bleeding obvious too, and shouldn't take longer than half a second's thought.

[PranaDevil]

GreyICE, are you suggesting town have NO doc, and purple scum have a Jailkeeper AND a Doctor on their side? lol

And your explanation boils down to "scum chose to no-kill last night" lol whut? In a game where there are TWO scum teams, one of them held back from shooting for the sole reason of trying to make out one of their players was town? That's your ENTIRE argument as to what happened last night and why I must be scum...

And I'm the one flailing apparently? Sweet jesus.

[PranaDevil]

What prevented the kill? You said it yourself, you'd most likely be jailkept if you were the town doctor. So who shot what?

Well, let's see... vig didn't go for me, which means if I was jailkept, red scum tried to kill me. If I wasn't jailkept, then one of the scum teams went for Katsuki.

Chronopie
Bunnylover
PranaDevil
bristep123
Katsuki
TheJakalope
popsofctown
Jedo the Jedi
GreyICE mothrax
LynchMePls
Glork
scotmany12

Three people on this list are scum. Do you have ANY ideas on who they are?

You, because you're blatantly scum. Jakalope could easily be scum thanks to his sly attempt at helping my wagon along (potentially purple scum with you in fact), and... I'm wary of bristep at the moment. He's normally much more active, and he's taken a very lurky stance this game. Like he's happy to sit back and watch events unfold. Which isn't like him from my previous games with him, he's usually much more active in pushing people. Bunny worries me too, a lot of what I say seems to get twisted by her, and I don't like that.

From this point on, I'll be ignoring GreyICE, as he's obvscum, and needs lynching, and no other lynch should be entertained this day phase.

Bunny, I have no idea if Katsuki is the vig. I never said as much, and I don't like the blatant rolefishing that may as well say "You think Katsuki's the vig? Tell me why so I can check!" I protected Kat because I needed to protect someone other than the obv-target of Glork, as that's where everyone would assume I would have protected last night, therefore I protected elsewhere gambling on the scums thinking the same. There was, of course, the chance of them attempting to jailkeep (or, at the time, roleblock as I believed. Before you try twisting that one again) me and kill Glork anyway, but if that were the case it wouldn't have made a difference anyway.

And yes, Katsuki was pushing for my lynch yesterday, thankfully I'm used to Katsuki as useless town now and so that was quite blatantly her playing to her usual terrible standards. Thus, as she was most likely town, and also a lovely target for scum to shoot and potential frame me for it, she made a great protection target as well.

[PranaDevil]

LMP, when you want to back up your argument, I'll listen. But you're normally a much better player than this. Stop ignoring the bleeding obvious and pay attention to what has been said, and get your vote over to GreyICE.

[PranaDevil]

Yep, because my experience with Katsuki being useless town branches right back to just this game. It couldn't possibly be that I've played in multiple games with her, and she's shown herself as utterly useless in every single one could it?

I'm ignoring you because you've proven to ignore logic, common sense, and have no intention of actually having an intelligent discussion on any point whatsoever, and therefore this will be the last time I entertain you. You're scum and somehow you've got LMP on side, and his lack of actually giving any information makes me believe he could well be scum too.

[PranaDevil]

bristep, while I agree my attitude in this game isn't as good as it normally is in games, it's nothing to do with not being able to deal with a wagon on me, but more to do with me being frustrated at people who look at logic, and toss it right out of the window. Along with a past history with Katsuki (The only game I've played with her where she accepted me as town was a PYP game where she had to reluctantly accept me as town because I was clearing people as the cop. First game I played with her, on my lynch/nk (can't remember now, the game was shit) she PM'd me to bitch about the fact I'm a shit player, rather than, y'know, the fact she just clearly had a false read. Of course, you would think by now that Katsuki has learnt that she can't read me for shit, but her pushing for my lynch/vig shows otherwise).

Also, lol at GreyICE suddenly putting bristep as potential scum now he's voting for him. Same with Glork earlier actually. the OMGUS is strong in this one.

[PranaDevil]

Right... GreyICE, are you saying that, now we have the benefit of hindsight, that anything said before that has to tally with everything we know now? First two quotes you pulled up don't need a response.

3rd one has you making zero sense in response to it.

4th... because I said Fate is town that means I'm scum? lol

5th, well... I'd actually go back and show where you've said suspect stuff, but it would appear you're saying it on a post by post basis.

Flailing? I never said I WAS or WASN'T jailkept last night, I was just suggesting various scenarios. The night before I KNOW I was jailkept because, hey, Fate died.

Why did I protect Katsuki? I'll say this again, slowly, because you're either an idiot or you are deliberately refusing to pay attention to it because it doesn't fit for you:
Katsuki is town who is/was (dunno, she's not popped up again since voting me) playing badly by pushing for my lynch. Doesn't change that scum would assume I would target Glork and they might, therefore, fire elsewhere if they were hunting the vig. Which meant they may also skip out on jailkeeping me if they knew where my protect was going to go. Make sense yet?

I'll break it down for you:
Scum assumes I will protect Glork
Scum don't have Glork as their main concern
Scum use the jailkeep on someone other than Prana
Scum shoot someone other than Glork while hunting the vig
Prana assumes scum will believe he will protect Glork
Prana therefore protects someone other than Glork

Simple.

But hey, remember guys. I'm the one flailing here, apparently. Rather than the guy who is randomly pulling up stuff and claiming that town wouldn't say it, despite offering no reasoning, and no argument as to why that would be the case.

[PranaDevil]

NO ONE seems to have a solid candidate whose not Prana.

lol

Anyone else aboard the train for ignorance city?

Let's see... two major wagons are:
PranaDevil (4) - GreyICE, Katsuki, TheJakalope, LynchMePls
and
GreyICE (5) - PranaDevil, Bunnylover, popsofctown, scotmany12, bristep123

Yep, nobody has any suspicions outside of me... other than of course the fact more people are currently voting for GreyICE, and those voting for me include a player who has spent half the game going after me and refuses to accept anything that's said that doesn't end with "Prana is scum" even if what is said is logical. A player who has never been able to read me, and has since vanished. And then two players who have failed to give any actual reasons for their vote on me, but are just seemingly happy to lynch a doctor that hasn't had a counter claim.

I'm actually still waiting on LMP's reasons for why I'm scum, as he's still yet to provide them. So come on LMP, where are they? Or are you scum just trying to slide onto a wagon that might have chance of a lynch?

[PranaDevil]

I'm up for a Jakalope lynch, I said I found his earlier actions scummy.

Also, much as I hate to say it, thinking over the arguments between me and GreyICE, outside of what happened early game that made me suspect him, the more recent stuff stinks highly of us both getting under each others skin in a non-game related way which has clouded my judgement of him since the start of this day phase. Not saying he's town by any means, but I need to recheck my stance on the guy later on. I do think, 100%, we both need to reign ourselves in and stop with the insults. So I'll apologize to both Katsuki and GreyICE for the previous comments, they were uncalled for and weren't said with a clear head.

So, that being said.

unvote;
vote: Jakalope

[PranaDevil]

Either Katsuki is lying. OR we have two docs in this game just like has happened in a previous SE game.

As it stands, we're looking at the following:

Town lynch me.
Glork is one of those killed overnight
Katsuki is lynched tomorrow.

And I've got a feeling Katsuki may actually be telling the truth, which would mean we're as good as handing the game to scum if we head that way.

Incidentally, LMP is scum.

Jakalope is also still scum.

[PranaDevil]

And for anyone wondering about the two doc scenario:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... =3&t=13890

[PranaDevil]

I'm Doc, from Chrono Cross apparently. Never played the game.

[PranaDevil]

Sorry man, but I was putting your attitude down to you being you, but the one thing I've never seen you do as town in previous games is apologise. That is the most scummy thing I've seen from you yet. Counter-claim included it's time to lynch liar-scum.

You say that like you're surprised you would see me apologize? When you consider that I'm trying to stamp out insults and such on the UKFF? It was you calling me on it here that made me step back and re-asses how I was doing things, and today realized I needed to step back from the insults myself.

However, one thing I have seen you do as scum is twist the knife whenever you get a chance.

So guys, I'm likely lynched later, but I would like to propose my views on the final scum:

Purple:
bristep123
Jakalope

Red:
LMP

Although in theory you could switch Jak and LMP round. But I'm not seeing them as scum together, not the way they were both heavily on my lynch. I figure bristep was playing the guy waiting to be convinced, and potentially aligning himself with me so if I survived he could buddy up to me.

[PranaDevil]

I'm afraid I'm still not scum.

But when I flip town doc, I don't want everyone turning on Katsuki tomorrow either. She's not likely scum at this stage (it would be foolhardy scum to counterclaim like that, knowing that they would be lynched tomorrow), meaning she's honest about it, and we've lost both town docs at this point it would seem.

Glork isn't scum either, he could have easily glided onto my lynch to begin the phase and nobody would have batted an eyelid.

GreyICE is unlikely scum because looking over at his posts, he's argued constantly, even in the face of mounting evidence, because he thought he had a read. Okay he argued badly, but looking over it with a clear head it looks like town sided arguing.

None of those three should be considered for lynching tomorrow.

Katsuki, protect one of those two, but don't announce it in thread. (Or if you can self protect, consider that too, hopefully scum will cock it up royally).

Vig, wherever you are, aim for LMP or Jakalope. One of them is red scum and if you shoot right it will wipe out that group for us. (Although it would benefit purple scum to do so as well in actual fact, because then they have one less kill each night to worry about hitting them, which with so few members is important for them right now, so Jak, LMP, whichever of you is purple scum, please kill the other, town will be extremely pleased).

[PranaDevil]

What's your reasons for me being scum, other than the fact that I gave you the benefit of the doubt, which was later rescinded when a counterclaim came in?

You lurked until you were called on it (You weren't lurking on the PYP game on the UKFF I'll note), which looks to me like you were holding back, hedging your bets to see who went where.

You tried befriending me when you placed your vote. Something we know from history on the UKFF (Thanks Chris B) is normally something that means I give people a free pass. In a game not too long ago I actually managed to play that to my advantage and catch scum with it.

As soon as Katsuki made his claim you dived right back in with a vote. No stopping to look over things at all, and tried twisting the knife as you did it by claiming that me apologizing was a scum sign (Did I do that as scum on the UKFF when I was in the cult? Nope. Thus not a scum tell for me).

Throw in that when you're town you push, and push, and push heavily, you get right in there, while this game you've stayed well out of it, and avoided much confrontation to the point I actually forgot you were in the game for a period until I checked the list of living players. It all adds up to a very non-town behaving bristep.

[PranaDevil]

bristep, one other thing (so what if I'm hammered?), youre ISO shows that all you've done all game is go after the easy targets and wagons. It's playing very safe, and I do think you would be good to be lynched tomorrow.

[PranaDevil]

I love it when people go "oh I protected X but he died due to shenanigans PLZDONTSHOOTZME"

Okay, maybe my read of Katsuki is kind of off... What with the fact that suddenly we're being told she protected Fate the same night I did... and yet somehow claims that me protecting him and him dying cannot be... yet she's claimed the same.

Katsuki might be a good vig target too, as bristep can hang no issue, Katsuki might be trickier.

[PranaDevil]

Considering you, who thinks I am the most useless player to have ever played the game, claimed to protect me N4 is laughable.

PD would NEVER EVER protect me, ESPECIALLY CONSIDERING HOW D4 WENT DOWN. AND COMBINED WITH MY ISO.

GIVEN OUR HISTORY, THERE IS NO WAY YOU POSSIBLY WOULD HAVE PROTECTED ME LAST NIGHT.

You do realize I've been lynched and we're merely awaiting the flip that shows I am, indeed, Doc right?

[PranaDevil]

Sorry for not posting much.
I am reading the thread, just don't find anything to comment on.
I think Ender should claim since he is at L-1 and been their for awhile, so I'm wondering why he hasn't claimed yet.

I haven't claimed yet because Fate hasn't answered me. But i will seems you have asked.

My name is Irvine Kinneas

. My ability is to track someone then kill them the next night. I tracked Fate, he targeted Merensial. I have not voted him because he has not killed Merensial. Because of this, i'm not going to kill you tonight.

I am Irvine Kinneas

from FFVIII. I am a sex cop. Every night I have sex with someone, and I can tell if they are a female or not. I got female for bristep. He claimed a dude. Glork, do you want my choices?

[PranaDevil]

It's not just Magic The Gathering. It's any Trading Card Game. Yu Gi Oh, Pokemon, Neopets... whatever floats your boat really.

[PranaDevil]

Neopets?...

o.O

My ex was a huge Neopets fan. When I went to visit her for a month (she was in Atlanta, I was in the UK... she had a few screws loose, likely why we got on so well actually... anyway), while there I found some Neopets trading cards. Figuring I liked both the Magic TCG, and the WWF Attitude online TCG, we might be able to find the best of both worlds with the Neopets one.

In all honesty, it wasn't a bad game for a piss about, but it had no long lasting appeal.