Metropolis: Revisited [Game Over]

[Baby Spice]

Not voting(13): Baby Spice,

Awaiting Hydra activation. name: 'Gaby'

[Baby Spice]

Seems it will be me and not a hydra. (That's 0 for 2 for hydra attempts for me)

I hate seeing individual members of a hydra posting, and didn't want to do it. It makes it hard to find all the posts by a spot for starters.

I don't mind Toog's strike. It certainly got things moving. (One of his reasons iirc)

Tempted to strike Toogeloo for that strike. I'm of the thought that we should thoroughly discuss strikes before placing them, almost as if it were lylo-ish

The first part sounds like someone testing the waters. Kinda "I'll strike Toog if someone will jopin me". It doesn't exactly jell withthe second sentence.

iso #3 is just weird. I can't decide if he's setting up to town read Wraith for town points or town read him as some sort of budy.

iso #4, why discuss SK's faking vig. We know there's no vig.

Then there's some stuff to appear town, then some much better posts. A definate change in feel.
Do we know if it's a day talk or night talk only game, because the last half of Hrezs' iso sounds like something caused him to change posting.

vote Hrezs

preview edit

Lol ABR, I just got the pm from the mod saying it was me alone.

[Baby Spice]

What are your other individual reads BS?

Not sure what to make of Wraith. Iffy neutral comment on Toog's strike early on, the tone of the "game breaking" comments more than the comment, and has felt "softly softly". Kinda flaoting along "lets not upset town/oops I upset town lets smooth it over" Leaning scum. Though I loved the 'C' stuff I have to ask. Is that kind of joking/serious post normal for Wraith because it could have been a distraction thing.

ThAd. My gut says that ThAd is sheeping the general town sentiment. Leaning scum.

LLD softly softly again. Softly goes one way, softy goes back the other way. If Hrezs is scummy for wanting to strike Toog/subtly support Toog, then so is LLD for showing similar pattern.

CKD leaning town.

Toog. Leaning town.

ABR. Clearly scum
Actually, while I don't like "alliances" per se, I'm by nature paranoid about such things, everything else is appearing good and stuff so leaning town.

MoI: If anything seems a little too calm about the strike. I know it's a large, I know normally the first vote or two don't pressure that much, and really it's a long way from being lynched. But there's no take backs in this one with a variant voting system. Neutral.

KageLord, Nacho, KK, Magua. Willing to take stances, which is always a good sign to me, lean town. Especially Magua.

Rest I'm still looking at.

[Baby Spice]

I think Toogeloo's strike wasn't scummy. Acting impulsively is a null-tell. The people jumping all over him for it I find more scummy, CKD/Hresz/KageLord being prime examples.

Is that your entire case for Hrez being scum?

Also, I got asked for reads Friend. Just reads.

[Baby Spice]

B) What is scummy about wanting to setup multiple lynches. There are 10 scum in this game. We are nipple-deep in scum.

# Skull-Crushers (4* players)
# Night Riders (4* players)
# Day Serial Killer (1 player)
# Night Serial Killer (1 player)
# Inner Circle (3* players) 1 skull-crusher, 1 Night Rider,

1 town

That makes 11 scum by my count. Why did you forget one? Or is there a reason you don't considerthe inner circle scum.

Vote KK

[Baby Spice]

If the inner circle are scum, and as far as I'm concerned they are, then there's 11 scum.
If you think the IC are town then there's 10. Who here would think the IC are town? They have a non town win con for starters.

Ergo, someone thinks the IC aren't scum, and there for is a good chance to be one.

[Baby Spice]

Isn't mucking up the scum numbers a clasic scum tell?

Granted this is a complex set-up and it could be genuine, but KK should at least be questioned/pressured about it.

[Baby Spice]

I'm thinking that DGB is town, and being very clever.

[Baby Spice]

Last thing I did was call DGb clever. Ok perhaps she wasn't intentially clever, but it ended up that way.
After DGB's self strike, there was a rush of strikes, and I strongly believe that at least four of the six strikes that followed her were scum jumping on an easy target. Strangely the strikes slowed up slightly when DGB started pointing out the scummy that was happening.

---

DrippingGoofball [14] – Albert B. Rampage, Nachomamma8, DrippingGoofball, Kublai Khan, StrangerCoug, Plum, Bunnylover, camn, Friend, Hrezs, KageLord, Exe, Magua,

MagnaofIllusion

.

KK, SC, Plum, BL, Camn, Friend.

Six people who jumped on DGB very quickly.

SC, no real reason given.
Camn, some dodging around and then no reason given.
BunnyLover, no reason given.
Friend. Silly reason.

I think DGB set a trap, and the above mentioned four fell right in, and I'd be happy to vote/strike any of them. Actually, looking at KK's early posts, how empty they wer, combined with his iso#17 which reads like scum trying to back away from or discredit DGB's comments about the wagon on her.

Plum is the only one of those six who reads as town to me.

[Baby Spice]

ABR. Toss up.

KK's posting strikes me as suspicious (Lots of nothing), and I'm not sure of his reasoning with the vote, but at least he gave a reason.
SC. Again, posts lots of nothing or arguements with ABR over Toog. Strikes with no real reason. But that last post of his, after DGB starts calling the scummy on the wagon, that strikes me as town, unlike KK.
So I would say KK is the most scummy there, just pipping out SC.

Vote KK

Nice one KK, ask for why I stopped where I did despite me saying why I stopped where I did.

[Baby Spice]

@BS: I disagree with you on the list of people you posted. You totally ignored those first 4 strikes + the 2 votes that suddenly found their way onto DGB before a case was posted and right after (and I do mean right after like minutes after) of strikes following the first strike. I had said I agreed with ABR meta case. I find it more suspicious of those who tried to over justify their reason to join the wagon.

BL, you want to spell out which strikes you mean?

The strikes I ignored were ABR, and nacho. (Well and DGB too) But then the strikes I'm interested in, that I think are really really scumspect were the ones that followed so quickly on the DGB strike, but before she started pointing out the scummy. The ones that fall into the "Cool someone self voted easy lynch" scum mentality. (around #425)

The strikes from Hrez onwards are more normal and I don't think subject to such scummery. (Though no doubt there is some scum in there somewhere)

The votes are a different kettle of fish due to the non-removable nature of the strikes, and I think will be helpful for more subtle cases. (ie: for people other than me)

[Baby Spice]

@ everyone: kagelord or friend - pick a side.

Well either I suppose as KageLord seems scummy, but Friend is on my list of people that I think are super scummy.

But what I wanted to ask thAd is why? Isn't it a little early to be saying pick one or the other now?

[Baby Spice]

@BS-
If you have concerns about ThAd asking the question, then why encourage him by answering?

I nearly didn't. But the town does seem to be settling on a couple of people, I wanted my view out there, and I suspected I knew what the answer would be:

I am getting pretty antsy to strike tbh.

[Baby Spice]

has motivation to push scum lynches... and can get away with it without upsetting their own scumteam.

What do you mean? Push lynches on their own scumteam or on the other scumteam?

[Baby Spice]

Strike KK

Yeah ABR, I'm behind you here.

Plum, just quickly but of those six, you're the one that seemed to have a real reason, a real case. The others either didn't give anything or their reasons felt forced.
Hell you seemed to actually get into an arguement about/with DGB

[Baby Spice]

Well now that the kill + block plan is officially screwed...

No, it's not.

As long as KK and KL receive the strikes, and the DSK kills someone who has already struck, then it's viable. Given that on D1 the DSK held off until real late in the day it's still a chance.

[Baby Spice]

Of the three wagons, I like the idea of lynching ThAd the least. I think he's the least likely of the three to be scum.

But I agree with Toog, after striking there is the tendency to sit back and watch.

[Baby Spice]

Why do you think he's least likely to be scum? Blatant self-preservation isn't a scumtell for you?

Self preservation, no. Not in an interesting large. People want to play not be an early lynch.

ThAd seems a little more commited to stances, a little more willing to be noticed. KK seems to have said little and stood for little, and I have a read of KL.

KK and Kl are scum reads for me, ThAd is much more of a neutral one.

[Baby Spice]

#26, #27, #28

Lynch him NOW.

I'd prefer to not break the game, guys.

lol hi scumbag.

/confirm

I'd guess that Reaper hasn't left a fucking hole the size of Chicago in his set-up that would allow breaking Day 1 but feel free to test that theory.

Then hang Wraith.

When I started playing here the first time, I learned a tell from Amished.
When people express similar ideas really quickly like those three quotes, then chances are there's scum there.
With AGM's flip, I'm betting this is the case here.

So,

vote MoI.

(FriendScum appears to be flaking so he can be next.)

[Baby Spice]

Exe.

It's not just that they posted the same thought, that Wraith was scum for not wanting to break the game.
It's that it's a weird thought and they posted it so close together but not in a "me too" way.
That AGM turns out to be scum, and that Friend is fairly scummy makes it look real bad for MoI in my opinion.

Also, They've hardly mentioned each other. In fact the only real negative thing said about any of them by any of them is MoI about Friend, and that's so soft it's not funny.

I’m certainly not going to give [Toog] the “stupid Town” get-out-of-jail free card like Friend.

Normally that's a null thing, but in a game with traitors, and knowing that someone (with daytalk according to the wiki) has given your name out to others, I can see a scum team being wary of bussing. These three have gone out of their way to not attack each other.


Add in Toog's first day strike on MoI and ABR's reaction to it for some more weirdness.
Indeed, the IC are a more traditional scum group and are probably far more comfortable bussing each other, and Toog, MoI, and ABR do have goes at each other.

[Baby Spice]

MoI, Toog, ABR. Pretty bloody obvious IC bussing going on.

strike Toog

Would rather MoI but will accept Toog.

[Baby Spice]

We must decide, as a group, that we are only going to strike one of two people today.

Good. Everyone choose. Toog or Moi.
Case to follow. Must go to happy hour.

STRIKE : MAGNAOFILLUSION

I fully endorse this strike, but wish you had struck his IC buddy Toog instead.

[Baby Spice]

MoI is IC, Toog is IC, ABR is possibly IC.

Lynch MoI or Toog, IC get removed then we can hunt the 'normal' scum using more 'normal' methods.

Why do anything else this day?

[Baby Spice]

Because anything else is totally unbalanced.

This is not a bastard mod so I doubt anyone will suddenly change wincon, and there's nothing else to really stop any surviving IC's from just screwing with the game.

But to really be sure, lynch MoI or Toog.

[Baby Spice]

I'm pushing a Toog lynch because that strike on MoI looks super suspicious now that AGM has flipped scum and MoI looks incredi scum from post 27 and 28, the attacks on Wraith for not wanting to break a game.

I struck Toog because ABR did, because I'm not 100% sure that ABR is IC, and because two votes on Toog sure as hell beats one vote on Toog and one vote on MoI.

To sumerise, AGM and MoI's posts looked incredibly sus to me at the time, AGM fliped scum which makes me damn sure that MoI is scum.
Toog's strike on MoI looked funny. I think the idea was kindof good, but the targeting was 'funny'. MoI comming up scum due to AGM's flip makes it really look like Toog was bussing, and ABR's 'ignore the idot' stuff was also probably bussing.
The IC team can bus, they don't have toworry about traitors and have a good handle on what 6 of the other players are thinking (via scum chats)
AGM and MoI hardly mention each other at all, and the scum teams can't bus due to the worry of traitors as any bussing will look traitorus.

Ergo, AGM MoI scum buddies. MoI and Toog IC buddies.

and No LLD, I suspect Toog, strongly with an absolute certainty suspect MoI and Toog of being scum IC's

It pure logic and extrapolation.

[Baby Spice]

Ever heard of deductive reasoning? Going back and looking at people?

Hell, I wrote them into my notebook as IC's about a month ago.

Ever heard of things that stick out like dog balls?

and if you actually think I'm part of a scum faction outing an IC member, why haven't you struck?

[Baby Spice]

Hi Scum.

I assume you're scum since I struck on the first wagon of the day, Toog, whom I now assume is your scum budy given your defense of him, and that you think your scum IC is someone else.
I also assume your scum for automatically assuming I have insider info on Toog.
How about you just tell us who you suspect for that dubious honour?

Ok, for those out there who didn't see what you did there LLD.

If you think I'm part of a scum faction outing an IC member why haven't you struck yet? You know, the person you claim I am outing from insider knowledge? No mention there of starting a fourth wagon but you obviously thought to try scare tactics of some sort.

Strike Toog, Strike MoI. Lynch on of them, because by not doing so you are admitting you don't think I'm scum despite your claim to the contrary.

In Summary, LLD. Hi Scum.

[Baby Spice]

You want to chainsaw defend obv scum then you mark yourself as obv scum.

One little flip will reveal all.

Preview

Oh, thanks for the prrof LLD.

This is so cool. Two IC, possibly three found.
Now three scum found.

If you think that I'm Toogs scum buddy and that I'm outing him as an IC, then STRIKE TOOG.
It's win win isn't it? At worst it's one scum for one town if Toog flipps town, which he wont. At best the IC are cactus.
But yuo wont LLD because he's your scum buddy.

Now, please stop proving my supposition that the scum teams wont buss each other for fear of the traitor and strike your traiterous scum buddy that I went and found for you.

If you don't then strike the scum who became obvious scum when AGM flipped godfather, and that made Toog obv scum/IC, MoI.

[Baby Spice]

Also, I like how you misrep me.

How have I defended Toog? .

YOu have refused to strike him, and am attacking me who is striking him, to the point of suggestiing a wagon on me that would really screw up the Toog/MoI lynch.

[Baby Spice]

RC:

Missed strike

[Baby Spice]

Keep confirming yourself as Toog's scum buddy LLD, but do remember you can strike MoI as well and not your buddy. It's ok, he's IC and scum too.

[Baby Spice]

Hey cool, look at the IC go. Look at Toog's scum buddy go.

LLD, love how you say little about MoI copping it, but chainsaw defend Toog.

Wow. Cleverly done.

Can we please end this shit and have MoI Day vigged.

Hell, can we please have people read.

It may have been my logic and deduction, but logic and deduction it was. Elementry stuff. I found the scum and now they are attacking me.

But, please for the sake of those following along at home.

If I am scum, and well I'm not. But if I was, and I was seriously calling someone confirmed IC, wouldn't you think maybe they really have identified the IC via QT stuff.

Since you (LLD) are absolutely refusing to look at the scum IC I found, via means other than a scum QT, nor his IC buddy that I identified via interactions here, then clearly you are scum with one of them. Toog since that's who you are defending. Hell, you've claimed that I was Toog's scum buddy and that I thought he was the IC via scum QT, which again leads to why the hell wouldn't you strike him on the off chance I was both scum and right.

That MoI is refusing to look is a given.

MoI confirmed scum and IC.
LLD confirmed scum.
Toog Confirmed scum and IC.

Elementary.

[Baby Spice]

"I am not defending Toog. If WHEN you flip scum, Toog will be next. He is the same scum faction as you, and he is likely your IC mole."

Then why didn't you strike him? That is the entire basis for you confirming yourself as scum. If you honestly thought I was Toog's scum buddy you would have struck him and tried for an IC. You struck me, confirming that you know I am not Toog's scum buddy, and that you are.

But let me correct your misrep btw.

I would prefer a MoI lynch. He is dead cert, 100% IC scum and deserves everything he cops.
I struck Toog because two votes on Toog was better than starting a third wagon.
But then you started a fourth wagon LLD.

Preview edit. Oh and MoI, I'll await your apology

[Baby Spice]

Someone asked about Friend/Xalxe

I always try to give the replacements a chance to scum it up for themselves. Or shine.

I've replaced in a bit, sometimes to replace real idiots, and feel it's just fair. Not a free pass by a long shot, but a chance to speak for themselves.

My main scummy on Friend was the reasonless DGB strike, and the reasonless Wraith vote. (With AGM's following vote)
The lurkiness didn't help of course. But with Friend flaking, his reasonless/scummy strike/vote could just be bad play or lurkiness.

So Xalxe gets a little grace.

Besides with actual IC & scum found, Xalxe wont be today's lynch regardless of what happens, so he can wait.

[Baby Spice]

"Despite her actions, she says ABR is

Probable

IC. "

Fixed

Once MoI flips IC, Toog's and ABR's interaction D1 becomes hightly suspect. Toog far more so. Far more so.

[Baby Spice]

I am so stealing that for an avatar

[Baby Spice]

I would like to see this alleged notebook (or links to relevant posts because I'm too tired to get this done in a timely fashion myself).

Since I jump computers a bit, I use a quickchat (Which I don't give out) for keeping notes on games. After the game has finished, you can see it if you really want.

[Baby Spice]

ABR, why me and not Toog as well?

[Baby Spice]

No ABR, it's definately, 100% MoI, almost certainly Toog, and then most likely yourself for the IC's

[Baby Spice]

RC and I have been having a discussion about wincon's and claiming. Which has made me realise that I've let real life crap get into my head and that I haven't been playing to mine.

For the morbidly curious.

Chris is cheating on me with another woman and I'm wondering if 11 years of marriage is going down the drain.
What I didn't notice was me obsessing on traitors/betrayal because of this. Should have replaced out when I found out, instead of carrying on like nothing had happened. Too late now.

Yes AGM was my scum buddy. So is MoI.
Due to attitudes by both of the above, myself and #4 stopped posting in the QT in night 1. Neither of us posted in N2.
N2 however was dominated by MoI pushing for a CKD night kill. N1 MoI framed CKD. Hell, MoI bullied AGM into a last minute change of target to CKD.

Also, there really was a no bussing policy suggested, that bussing each other would make it easier for the IC's to get one of us lynched. In hindsight I think that was a mistake as it allowed the IC's to bus each other.

Which leads too:
With that certainty of MoI being IC, go look at Toog and ABR's interactions with MoI. Screams at least one IC there, probably both.

Oh, and the beauty of this is, you shouldn't lynch me because you run the risk of Moi/IC getting control of the night rider night kill. At least not without removeing MoI first. (Assuming I still get a say in the NK if role blocked)

Oh, mr. Dayvig. it was real obvious that MoI is IC from the QT, so I would suspect that he has the vest, just in case one of myself or #4 pushed hard on him. I doubt the other scum IC had to put themselves so much at risk.

I get to out/smack the traitors, big tme. Even if vicarious, it makes feel a little better to be honest.

[Baby Spice]

Firstly: Look at the nightrider QT and tell me I was wrong.

Secondly, IC's should flip as such, but should be able to win even with members down. (Perhaps by eliminating factions they loose their member from instead of controlling them)

Thirdly, perhaps add an IC.

But really knowing an IC was down would have changed everything.

Don't think it was unbalanced, but would like it a little less cut throat.

[Baby Spice]

Not at the result, at the decision.

One, with the IC's in the game, and the scum kill obvious and up for discussion, the nightriders couldn't win with the IC still in the team.

We couldn't win. To have a hope of winning, the IC had to be removed.
Why, because we had no control over the kill what so ever. There was a good 33% chance that the other team's RB was controlled by the IC, and if they had no idea who their IC was, that percentage climbed. Same, for them, with their kill.

So we (Nightriders) were screwed and all we could do was either hang around until we were dead or remove the IC and gain control of our faction back and gain a slight chance of winning.

With the IC's having to have all three members alive to win, it naturally followed that removing one of them would cause them all to loose, and since they knew so much and couldn't win, they'd have to be removed. Anything else is bastard mod, and I don't believe this game was advertised as such.

Secondly, look at the situation at the time, and has anyone posted the links to the QT yet?
http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/kYE3jDNXm47P
Both godfathers had just shot each other, and flipped not IC.
That said that both scum IC's had directed the shots, as anything else is unbelievable co-incidence. Added to MoI's insistance, indeed badgering, that AGM should target CKD, and it looked bloody certain that MoI was the IC. Then I was being struck all over the place and there was one option left for a Nightrider win. Remove the IC.

So I believe I did play to my wincon, as I saw it. That the IC was about to become the sole Nightrider left, and that for the Nightriders to win MoI had to be removed.

Again, the only problem I see with the set-up was the non-reveal of the IC's, though the recruit ability added later on probably didn't help much. The game was a bastard mod, without the warning.

Lets look at the situation of CKD had flipped as an IC.

MoI, damn near confirmed as non-IC, both other nightriders would have immediately handed control of the kill over to him, and both scum teams would have realised that they had a decent chance of winning.

[Baby Spice]

I still disagree that it was playing to your wincon, but, what is your solution?

Making it so that the IC need all three alive to win? Or having it so that they flip IC upon death, but that the faction remains alive?

Can't have both.

Flip's.

Making all three alive is kind of swingy with a probable 5 kills (including lynch) on D1/N1

[Baby Spice]

Personally, Bastard mod could be:
Changable wincon.
Untrustworthy flip info (includes non-flip but not delayed flip)
'Weird' interactions.
Hdden players



Haven't voted on the next game. Waiting for Harry Potter