Payola Mafia - Game Over

[Nightcow]

vote: draygn_mage

and VisMaior for considering random FoSing.

What is that supposed to achieve?

Search me

[Nightcow]

Interesting. I think it might be a good idea to force Nightcow to use some of his cash, because I don't think it's in the town's interest to have a big gulf between the rich and poor.

If someone whose alignment is undetermined starts building up a lot of cash, this will be a cause for concern. I think we are a long way from there now. Nightcow only has 13% of the wealth at the moment, which I don't see as a problem. 20% plus and I will start to worry.

It's very much in the

town's

interest to have a difference.

A financially poor mafia will be unable to fix results, a rich town can. That stands greatly in our favour. We should always put ourselves in a position to outpay the mafia (even if we don't outplay them )

I can prevent Mafia speed payments late on by outbidding them; and generally hoard cash so the town's will, rather than the mafia's, is exercised come lynch time.

[Nightcow]

How about we merge ideas a bit?

Suppose we set a standard payment, but make it quite large. Say £20-30, maybe even £50. That way we can bankrupt the mafia. And if we assume a 3-4 man mafia, then I could outpay them all.

I feel I need to make a couple of frank posts suggesting ideas and explaining a coule of things. Do you guys think I should?

[Nightcow]

I'm a mason, pablita got lucky.

[Nightcow]

Mod-confirmed innocence?

Yes.

[Nightcow]

Masons could easily be scumbags!

Not in this game, dude. We know each other to be town. We've been specifically told that there is no dirty work going on.

[Nightcow]

pay 40: Twomz

I'm not going down without a fight.

Is that a confession?

[Nightcow]

I'll refresh until deadline. There will be no more payments by townies.

[Nightcow]

EBWOP: Are you sure of your sanity, what with pablita being a cop too?

[Nightcow]

Each game day will last one week, with a deadline set at dawn. If a payment is made close to the deadline, the new deadline becomes 2 hours from the last payment. Whoever has the most money assigned to their name at the deadline is lynched. If there is a tie, whoever reached that dollar amount first is lynched.

[Nightcow]

So we get another 2 hours to talk about this

[Nightcow]

pay 60: Twomz

you're either scum playing stupidly or your naive and useless

Is a cop worth more than a jack-of-all-trades?

What is a jack-of-all-trades in mafia?

If he is insane/paranoid he can clarify by investigating me tonight.

[Nightcow]

I still think it would benefit the town if people pay more than just a few quid. We need as many mafia as possible on minimum wage at the end of every day.

[Nightcow]

Bah, big money on me.
Nothing I can say, I misread yesterday.

Is that all you can say?

Oh, apparently it is. If you are town you can (must) do better.

All townies should have their Wills on me. (ok, maybe pooky since dragyn cleared him). My Will is safely on a mason bud. We can't afford to lose any more money to lack of Will.

Should Twomz say who he's investigated? If Twomz found him scummy yesterday, there's a chance that he may be scum, even if Twomz can't prove it by investiagtion. If Twomz dies at night and he is revealed as insane we would have a cleared townie as well.

Thoughts?

[Nightcow]

Fritzler - how does your role work? Did you start the game with a list of all the cops with their sanities? Did you have to investigate Twomz to figure out his sanity?
Something sounds fishy about your claim to me.

sounds to me like you are scum fishing for info

Sounds to me as though you are in the wrong game again ¬_¬

I think we need to pay to lynch CES today.

[Nightcow]

pooky, sounds like a good idea to me.
Pay 200: help im a bug

Congratulations. You've just paid $200 to lynch a mason. I suggest we find an actual scum to pile the cash on.

Does anyone have any idea why Thoth is so quiet?

There's probably plenty of scum among guys like Vis, CES, Stoofer, logic and Inhim.

[Nightcow]

And Nightcow, can you objectively state that I've played any different from our previous two games?

Nope. You're always scum.

I like seeing unconfirmeds paying up huge wadges of cash. Should be fun.

[Nightcow]

Okay. Just checking whether you actually had a reason this time. So how often do I have to turn up pro-town before you change your point of view?

46. Give or take.

[Nightcow]

Hmm, still in the lead.
Pay 100: Mr. Stoofer

Hmm, this post is not good at all. I suggest someone pays some more to kill you.

This is the fourth game I've been in when someone has claimed doc. So far they have all indeed been townie docs. I suggest Mr Stoofer isn't killed today.

We need a cash/payment list. We need to see who can afford to pay the hangman to take care of Thoth.


Boticelli - Always scum.

[Nightcow]

Does anybody want to talk about this game? Or shall we just carry on discussing Nativity Mafia?

This day is over anyhow by now. I'll summarize for you:

I get lynched.
I'm revealed as protown
tss is scum
Stoofer is suspicious and claimed nonconfirmable, but could be genuine.
Claiming doc apparently still is a valid strategy as scum.

If we have a vig, don't shoot TSS.
We need to look at CES and Stoofer. I think it highly likely that one is a baddie.

[Nightcow]

GGs:
Fritz

Nightcow

<-----
Twomz
Pooky

BGs:
BabyJesus
Cogito Ergo Sum
inHimshallibe
logicticus
Mr Stoofer

Nightcow

<-----
the silent speaker
VisMaior

Interesting.

Ok, so there's 11 left. With probably 4 mafia.

That's 7 townies. We have identified some certs. Then we add probables. Then we go from there.

I suspect there are mafia hiding amongst Logicticus, CES, BJ and Inhim. Logic would be my choice for today.

Stoofer issue - Should we ask for a counterclaim? If someone comes forward as another doc we get a 1 for 1 at least. That would narrow down the options. No counterclaim and we assume the best of Stoofer.

@Fritz - How did you know Twomz was definitely paranoid?
@Inhim - Any reason why you were so supportive of Stoofer yesterday?

[Nightcow]

and it being not lynch-or-lose means we can afford to look elsewhere.

Remember, the scum have to keep our doctor alive if Stoofer is actually scum because if the doctor dies then Stooferscum is screwed!

There's no need to get stoofer now, we can get him later if a doc shows up dead.

Agreed.

[Nightcow]

but i'm confirmed and you guys aren't.
there's that super duper Pooky gurantee AND an investigation from a confirmed protown role that's more reliable than a regular cop.

I'll go by the investigation, thanks . Odd cop roles aren't usually insane/naive are they?

Jack of all trades gets a random nightaction between usually standard investigation, nightkill, roleblock, or doc protect usually.

How do you know? It was asked when Dargyn claimed, how come you didn't tell us then? I feel betrayed.

It wouldn't make too much sense for there to be another randomness factor built into the investigation.

True.

There's no reason these players should have more money than every1 else.

The money situation is fine.


Should Logic turn out indeed to be a bad guy, does his payment on Stoofer/Vaughn make us happier with Vaugn's allegiance, or does it not really mean anything? What if Logic defies sense and is actually a good guy?

[Nightcow]

I've got ninety thousand pounds in my pyjamas,
I've got forty thousand French francs in my fridge.

I've got lots of lovely lira,
Now the Deutschemark's getting dearer,
And my dollar bills would buy the Brooklyn Bridge.

There is nothing quite as wonderful as money (money, money),
There is nothing quite as beautiful as cash.
Some people say it's folly,
But I'd rather have the lolly,
With money you can ma-ake a splash.

There is nothing quite wonderful as money,
(money, money, money, money)
There is nothing like a newly minted pound,
(money, money, money, money)

Everyone must hanker for the butchness of a banker,
It's accountancy that makes the world go round (round, round, round).

You can keep your Marxist ways
For it's only just a phase.
For it's money money money makes the world go round.
(money, money, money, money, money, money, money, money,
moneeeeeeeeeeeyyyy)

[Nightcow]

Not yet. But he will be soon.

[Nightcow]

I suggest lots of money on CES to start with.

[Nightcow]

I'll admit that my play yesterday was perhaps not the smartest. But I'm still convinced that Vaughn is scum. Real docs don't tend to survive.

What good is our doc?
Our main cop died night 1, and our other one was apparently paranoid. So the doc is simply protecting the biggest earners, me or Pooky. Anyone else if fair game for the scum - most confirmed first. I'm perfectly Ok with Vaughn as townie doc. He hasn't yet been counterclaimed, so I suggest we consider him town, and you scum.

[Nightcow]

Hmmm, so what do we do?

Have him accept?
Ask for the offerer to come forward?
Both?
Have him decline?

I'm for both, but I can see reasons for keeping the money.


@Pooky - Were you asked for $400 as well, or a different sum?

[Nightcow]

yea it asked for $400 too

I didn't see any reason to trust the offer so I declined it.

So we should ask for whoever offered the deal to come forward and if no-one does, we assume it's a scum trick and ignore it, right?

[Nightcow]

yea, because we NEVER have scum masons, right?

Grow up.

pay CES: $20

just to keep things moving and so we don't lurk lynch by mistake.

Mod edit: This is a lead change.

[Nightcow]

What part of "suspicious, yes, but autolynching them plays into the mafia's hands just as much as autofreebieing them" has been giving you trouble?

[Nightcow]

Wait, there are three masons?

Yes.

and if you'll notice I also contributed largely to getting scum lynched yesterday.

By FoSing me when I first payed for CES?

If you are claiming mason, assuming nightcow backs you up

100%

Nightcow, did anyone offer you nightkill protection?

No.

wait a sec, nightcow was a mason with HIMB?

Yes.



What does a night watchman do?

When everyone has claimed we need to talk more about the offers. I suggest we hold off until everyone has claimed.

[Nightcow]

1) What InHim's choices were

Me too. Though I ask again what a Night Watchman does. Is he the guy that see who a player targets?

2) Why wasn't nightcow offered protection

I don't know. Maybe the offerer expected me to get Vaugn's protection? I guess we'll wait for full claims before we examine this further. My own suspicion (which I voiced to TSS last night) is that maybe the offerer was trying to frame TSS. I wonder if a cunning plan to get the unconfirmed-and-slightly-under-suspicion TSS miss-lynched was foiled by his being the last mason.

3) Why did nightcow's supposed mason partner find him scummy enough to pay for him to be lynched.

You'll note that TSS payed for HIAB on day 1 too.

OK at the start of the game we were "Searching Masons". We knew there were other masons out there, and that they were town. Each night we could investigate a player to see if they were masons with us. I breadcrumbed in my first post, but it seems HIAB (and maybe TSS) didn't spot it

What is that supposed to achieve?

Search me

When Pablita Willed his money to me I came up with the plan of claiming to meet up with my chums that night and to start the policy of having a rich town. When I outed HIAB (an error) I no doubt got him killed, so I kept as quiet as possible about TSS - asking a vig not to fire was pretty much all I did. It seemed that a 2 man masonry would be fine for a game this big, but a 3 man would be a touch large. I guess the searching part was to balance it.

So there you have it. Oh, and BJ, we still have mod-confirmed innocence.

[Nightcow]

Put me under pressure first.

What part of the mass claim idea fooled you?

Nightcow - Mason
TSS - Mason
Vaughn - Doc
BJ - Townie
Inhim - Watcher
Fritz -
Vis -


@Vis, Fritz - Claim. Now.
@Inhim - Choices. Now.

My wallet is bulging. The money is itching to pay for some of you guys to die.

[Nightcow]

Hold up, we're running up inhim because he's claimed watcher? Baby's claimed townie, isn't townie the safer lynch, or is there something about inhim's claim that makes it scummier than babyj's that I can't see?

We don;t go by "safe" lynch this late in game...

why the hell are you still alive?

Cos you killed my mate last night?

[Nightcow]

Sorry, I've been lazy. I'm not sure what to do. I've never reached a toght endgame before.

So If you'll forgive me, I think we need another 3 days.

pay £105:BJ

Mod edit: This is a lead change. Also, I'm assuming that one pound equals a dollar because I expect that is what Nightcow meant and I don't feel like looking up exchange rates.

[Nightcow]

Pay £10: Inhim

And that should say "tight" above. Not "toght". Stoopid forgetting to preview.

Mod edit: Another lead change.

[Nightcow]

OK, so we have the protection offer. We need a list of people who have been offered.

Fritz? <-I forget
Pooky
BJ
TSS

OK 2 confirmed by death townies, 1 probably townie and 1 that we're looking at today.

Is this a list of townies, or is there a goon in there (BJ) trying to fool us? That is the ultimate issue for today.

Let's take a look at everyone.

Nightcow - Mason. Town.
Fritzler - Commissioner. OK, so if Fritz is mafia would it have made sense to sacrifice Vis. surely he'd have just said "yes, there are 3 cops in the game" and had vis confirmed. Why did vis claim paranoid, when we already had Twomz as paranoid?

Im cop, either paranoid or insane. I only have guiltys so far.
pooky/fritz/Vaughn/twomz/BabyJesus

Now why not claim naive, so as to be different. It seems a bad claim all round, really.
However, Fritzler's waiting until vis claimed is interesting. Did he know vis would claim cop? Were there no better claims for Vis?
However, just the night before, I'd talked to TSS about how I thought vis was town. We need to see who ran the vis wagon and where the money came from. I can't help feeling that if Fritz was mafia and wanted a mis-lynch instead it would have been quite easy. I was thinking BJ myself. I don't really see why Fritz/vis would sell out vis for minimal gain. As we still had BJ and Inhim as possibles.

So I think fritz is town.

Vaughn - Doc. Why am I still alive? There was one night in this game where everyone else thought I was the last mason. Where was my money Willed?
So if Vaughn was a baddie, they could have killed me off. Vaughn could have claimed to be protecting Pooky. No trouble at all. So why am I alive? Because Vaughn is the doc and the mafia are assuming he will be protecting me? So as far as I am concerned Vaughn is OK.

Now that leaves us with 3 players I believe are town.

We need to look at BJ and Inhim, and take a look at what powers we have.

It may be worth BJ and Inhim preparing full defences.

[Nightcow]

Actually there were two nights when I was thought to be the lone mason. When Twomz and Pooky died. Even more reason to accept Vaughn, I feel

[Nightcow]

Nightcow, why do you suppose a claimed doc in Vaughn is still alive?

Because unlike in most games priotecting cops etc is less important than protecting the money (me)

So in order the mafia have offed...

pablito, cop, shot night 1 <---Luck

Tamuz, townie, shot night 2 <--- I'd have doc protection. CES certainly wanted to cast suspicion on the doc. Wouldn't surprise me if they wanted to keep him well alive for a while at least

help im a bug, mason, shot night 3 <---confirmed, and I'd be getting doc protect. Probably when the mafia tried the "is Pooky GF" trick.

Twomz, cop, shot night 4 <---Just in case he's insane. (Helps Fritzler's case. As if Fritz was mafia with cop knowledge they'd leave him alone. He didn't do much tin the game except get Dragyn killed.

PookyTheMagicalBear, townie, shot night 5 <---casting the "is Pooky GF" suspicion failed, so they offed him as confirmed.

the silent speaker, mason, shot night 6 <--- The last role confirmed

OK, so there really hasn't been any need for the mafia to kill the doc or me. We were essentially roleblocking ourselves to protect the money, as it were. The mafia would just off the most confirmed. It will be interesting to see who dies tonight. I assume if Vaughn is indeed townie doc, I won't be dying. The numbers in this game are such that the last 3 players could well be me, Vaughn + Inhim or Me, Vaughn + BJ. There hasn't been the mathematical need to make all the town's known power roles dead. If you see what I mean.

I would basically be the arbiter of the game's end. Do I trust a not-dead doc or an unconfirmed other. Tricky.

[Nightcow]

Mod edit: This is a lead change. Also, I'm assuming that one pound equals a dollar because I expect that is what Nightcow meant and I don't feel like looking up exchange rates.

Dang, you noticed. I was hoping to fool you all. Mua ha ha ha etc.


Oh, and by the way, I'm leaning towards BJ.

@Inhim - What have you to say of your actions in the game.?

I'm thinking that Night Watchman is a great not-likely-to-be-counter-claimed ability that doesn't actually need to gain results.


Town

3 slightly weak masons. Still powerful
1 true cop
1 paranoid cop
1 commissioner (who can catch a lie)
1 doc
1 Jack-of-all-trades.
3 townies

OK, so that's a nice bit of power there. The paranoid cop did his bit in securing 1 mis-lynch, the masons came together early.

Do we need a Nightwatchman?

We know the mafia has the "protection money" ability. A specific player with ability or a general mafia ability?

Thoughts?

Inhim the floor is all yours.

[Nightcow]

what im worried about is if vaughn isn't doc he can kill nightcow tonight and use his superious cash to avoid getting lynched

can he burn some money please?

TIA

Yes indeed.

@Vaughn - You will please pay an equal amount (between 75 and 100, I guess) on both Inhim and BJ.

[Nightcow]

Nightcow - I would STRONGLY suggest willing your money to either Fritzler or myself, whoever you trust more.

agreed.

[Nightcow]

One more point.

Vaughn - of you really are the doc, protect me again tonight.

If we wake up tomorrow with me vaughn and 1 of you guys alive. Then no-one should pay any money at all. We will go to no lynch and the mafia would be unable to win.

If Vaughn is nightkilled, I pay on the survivor the next day
If either of you dies, I pay on vaughn
If I die, then you guys (who'll get my will) pay for vaughn.
If no-one dies the game stalemates into "and they all lived happily ever after"



One more, final last point. Where be Inhim?

[Nightcow]

Pay: 5 BJ

Heh... just die already scum.

Why? did you not see what I wrote above. I may have got the mafia win condition wrong, but we could have asked or worked it out etc.

If we are paying money to lynch it makes sense that money is more important than vote numbers. I assumed that a 1 on 1 would be won with the guy who has more money, not the usual vote-locked mafia win.

So I think you just screwed up, Vaughn. Either way that payment is a certifiably awful move. If you're town you put us into lynch or lose right up as now there

will

be a lynch today, and if we get the one of you that is town, the mafia off me tonight and win. Capiche. If you are mafia you just lost, I feel.

@BJ feel free to pay up a little on Vaughn.
@Vaughn feel free to pay up a little on BJ.


We need this game to go on for another week, at least. I am on holiday in Cyprus and I only have internet access for a few minutes at a time. Keep paying each other bit by bit, put up your attacks and defences, and I'll drop the hammer when I'm ready.

pay Vaughn: $10

Mod edit: This is a lead change.

[Nightcow]

Thing is Vaughn, with the three of us alive, the town could not lose. That's what my post just before the Inhim lynch was about. If you disagreed with it, you should have said so, instead of ignoring my instruction.
We had plenty of time to determine whther we could or whether we wanted to No Lynch today. now we have no choice. What you did was awfully scummy.

Now I have to choose which one of you is the last goon. And I have no idea. Do I trust a claimed doc, or a claimed vanilla townie?

We have no dead doc, so that is in your favour. We have shadowy offers of protection, which isn't.

Do you not see what an awful position you put us in?

I was working on the assumption that I would be left with Fritz and BJ today, and I'd have to make a judgment call. I opnly thought you'd be alive if you were the last goon, and then you couldn't win anyway.



@BJ - If you get a chance can you take a look at the Stoofer/Vaughn wagon on day 2. I'd like your thoughts on it. Who pushed it what evidence etc? And when CES started his lynch doc stuff. I have CES's constant calls for Vaughn's demise as a good point in Vaughn's favour. Perhaps you could try persuading me otherwise.

@Vasughn - can you please take a look at the Logic/CES/Vis lynches. Who started them, what evidence etc. I have BJ's attacks on them as a plus point in his favour. Perhaps you could try persuading me otherwise.

Also can you both take a look at the minor spat between BJ and TSS. May be important. Did BJ think he could get an easy lynch on the unconfirmed TSS? Was it all hot air

Can you also have a look at how much money the night-killed people had. Was there any pattern to the deaths? second most money? most confirmed player?

These four issues, I feel, will decide the game.

@The townie of you. PLEASE MAKE YOUR ARGUMENTS GOOD. REALLY REALLY GOOD.

I'm leaning towards Vaughn's paymerny this morning as a MAJOR scum tell. (Just so you know which of you has the most work to do!!!!!)

[Nightcow]

Up to nightcow now.....

|Thanks. I really haven't a clue. You have both made excellent arguments. OK, I realy need this game to go on until I get back from hols. (Sunday) So I'm going to put up a placeholder payment change.

pay Vaughn 30

I'm still leaning towards Vaughn being the bad guy. So I may leave this as is.

@whoever of you is the bad guy. Grrrrr. I hate you. I have yet to wina game of Mafia and now I get 1 50/50 chance I haven't a clue. You've both done a good job of looking good.

Sorry to drag it out.

[Nightcow]

OK, back from hols. I'll give the thread a final once over some time today and make my decision.

Hmmmm.

pay 30: Vaughn

Mod edit: Lead change.

[Nightcow]

In a nutshell, I think Vaughn is the baddie. Going solely on today's performances Vaughn's posts have really rubbed me up the wrong way, and BJ's have been much more convincing.

I'll not add any more payments at this stage. Vaugn remains the payoff leader. I do ave an analysis on the go, but the final holes of the Masters will no doubt keep me from finishing until tomorrow.

[Nightcow]

I've written and rewritten so many posts my head is spinning.

However, I have changed my mind. I believe Vaughn and I think BJ is the baddie. In the chats I had with TSS and what I've felt all along, I have to go with Vaughn. When TSS mentioned the protection racket someone asked Vaughn about it. And his reply was confused rather than denial. I really think he knew nothing about the racket.

Whereas BJ mentioned that we have 95% chance of Doc backup. Unless he was referring to the already dead D_M, was he referring to the protection racket in the hope he could fake claim later. Frankly there are only 2 things about Vaughn that are troubling.
1)His payment eraly today.
2)His continued survival as claimed doc

1)Maybe he just screwed up. It happens. I just wish he'd apologised instead of defending it
2)So what. With this game being about money, rather than votes, he was essentially roleblocked every night. No chance to save better players than me etc. Why would the mafia kill Vaughn if they had a 100% kill on Pooky for example.

OK, my decision is made. We can finish this now.

pay 500: BJ

I won't go all in as I'd like to rush off to the airport and buy a ticket to the Cayman Islands incase I just screwed up.

[Nightcow]

sorry