Cultural Revolution is Over!

[Thok]

The Chairman wrote:"The enemy will not perish of himself!" And indeed, we must find and crush those who would bring disaster to our dream.

I see that many of you are well trained in the words of Mao.

I will vote

Shamrock

for clearly being Irish.

[Thok]

The Chairman wrote:"The enemy will not perish of himself!" And indeed, we must find and crush those who would bring disaster to our dream.

Only the first half of that is my posting restriction (everything up to the exclamation mark; the rest is just me adding flavor). I figure I should mention this in case people start trying to google these phrases to see if they give any useful information about our roles.

[Thok]

I'm going to

unvote, vote Twomz

-not because he didn't have a posting restriction, but because he felt like he needed to appear to have a posting restriction; he could be scum trying to hide his real identity. I'll

FOS thedocsalive

for defending Twomz.

I was required to post a certain sentence in my initial post.

[Thok]

I think we should start doing stuff that will get us closer to finding scum. The restrictions won't help until we have some deaths to guide ourselves by.
Figuring out how many mafiosos we have (7 or 8 would be my guess) could be a good start.

While I have some theories on possible scum groups, I'd prefer to know how many night kills we have before we try to figure out the type and size of scum groups. There is also the possibility of a Mao influenced cult (the term cult of personality comes up a lot in Wikipedia's articles about the Cultural Revolution). And our glorious moderators might have thrown in an SK just for fun.

Heck, I not yet sure if we are looking for specific historical figures as a source of scum, or if there are generic scum roles, or some combination of the two.

[Thok]

Y, I'm going to assume you don't know what a cult is (in the mafia sense).

Mafia=evil group that kills townies
Cult=evil group that converts townies into cultists.

[Thok]

So Thok is stating that we have possibly 3 groups here? It's probable, with a game this large.

Huh? I'm pretty sure I've said no such thing; I've suggested that there could be 3 possible types of groups, but I don't claim to know anything about their exact makeup.

[Thok]

Just posting to say that I need to make a reread of this thread-a more substantial post is coming tonight or tomorrow.

[Thok]

I did a reread and chamber caught my eye.

unvote Twomz, vote chamber

[Thok]

Bah, I've been not paying enough attention to this game. I second (third? fourth? whatever) the request for a vote count; I may just jump on Bacde to help push the day along.

[Thok]

Glork: I was looking for people who jumped on Twomz for the post-restriction thing (which chamber did); that combined with chamber's general lack of contribution struck me as interesting enough to place a vote.

I held back my reasons for a while because I wanted to see if there would be any reactions to my vote; at this point I don't see any further reactions happening, so I might as well spill my thoughts.

[Thok]

So, does anybody want to join me and Vaughn on the chamber wagon?

[Thok]

I can support a mlaker bandwagon; he had roughly the same reaction to the Twomz bandwagon as chamber did.

unvote chamber, vote mlaker

[Thok]

I'm supporting the mlaker bandwagon because he's been wishy-washy (and inconsistent) in his opinion on Twomz.

[Thok]

Yay! Bring on the post restrictions!

I'm psychiatrist, if you're sk, claim and I'll turn you

Yay!

[Thok]

Thok, you do know that a SK was lynched yesterday, correct? Or was that a posting restriction?

Posting restriction, which should be obvious to anybody's who has read Married to the Mob (Normal 43). Fritzler, I don't know who sent it, but there are obvious suspects.

[Thok]

I have no reason to believe that there is an SK out there. If it makes people feel better, I'll claim not psychiatrist. I was sent a pm that said my first post had to contain the faked words..

Fritz, are you claiming responsibility for these words? Given the player list, I suspect it's one of you, LML, BJ, or TSAGod, with an outside chance of it being Vismaior/SOS.

Glork, I gave my reasons for voting chamber; I was looking for people who jumped on Twomz for his post restriction (such as chamber) and I also noticed chamber's lack of contribution. Mlaker also jumped on Twomz for his post restriction, and also didn't contribute much day 1.

I will also mention that I can clear myself with a name claim if necessary.

[Thok]

Fritzler, it's conceivable to me that the mod didn't tell you that your post forced a post restriction.

As for our remaining scum group, I assume that we still have to deal with the Gang of Four, which strangely enough involves 6 people. We also have to worry about Lin Biao.

Twomz, I am very much not a Chinese peasant.

[Thok]

Curious. So we have the Red Guards to worry about, I assume.

I request that if any masons are forced to role claim, that you either do not reveal your age or that you strongly consider lieing about your age.

I am going to

vote chamber

, following up my instincts yesterday.

[Thok]

Mafia can see the town saying 5 mafiates, when there are in fact 6.
But what ploy could they make of it? I've never seen the town fail because they thought of a different number of roles.
You shouldn't worry about it too much.

unvote chamber, vote The Unwritten

, and thanks for letting us know that there are 5 people in your scum group.

[Thok]

Edion0, why did you post a vote count?

[Thok]

Twomz, nothing personal, but I'd like to hear edion0's explanation.

[Thok]

OK, that's 10, which is remarkable considering that we had difficulty getting 7 votes yesterday.

The Unwritten, you need to either defend yourself or claim.

[Thok]

A random name doesn't tell us anything.

[Thok]

unvote, vote Edion0

[Thok]

For voting TU after his ability was confirmed, mayhaps?

And for the vote count (posting merely for the sake of appearing to do something) and for flopping on his opinion of The Unwritten (he distinctly gave him advice before he claimed, then proceeded to vote him after he claimed).

@Glork-I didn't have any restrictions on calling a post restriction. I figured there was no reason to hide that fact, especialy because there was a lot of post restrictions day 1.

[Thok]

unvote edion0

vote Flavor of the week, I mean

vote Tamuz

Bandwagoning for the sake of bandwagoning.

[Thok]

BJ-The Unwritten's role (while weird) does fit in with these sentences in the opening post.

Then Mao blamed the sparrows for eating the rice, so that everyone was busy chasing and killing sparrows. Without the sparrows to eat them, the insects multiplied to eat every grain and seed.

I'm starting to get the feeling that Tamuz is being stupid rather than scummy, and that Glork, while a mason, has mislead us a little about the recruitables (or possibly has been mislead about them). I'm also trying to decide if we should just start lynching the recruitables as a safety measure.

unvote Tamuz

[Thok]

The camping thing is a reference to Mafiascum Mafia Mafia. Fritzler had a Upick role; one of the things he picked was a guy who asked people if they want to go camping for a not PG13 reason.

(Wonders how long it will take Twomz to start eprtending to be me, Disgrace to SK's everywhere)

I'm going back to edion0, I still think theere's something to be found there.

unvote, vote edion0

[Thok]

ok w/e I probably shouldn't be doing this cause I don't know my sanity yet but : I have a guilty of fritz, this game has slowed and I don't see it going anywhere else today.

Do you have other results to compare this to? This is the sort of theme where I wouldn't trust cop results this early unless you were specifically told your sanity.

[Thok]

Bah. I'll guess I'll support this bandwagon.

unvote edion0, vote Fritzler

[Thok]

I want Pug to name claim/role claim before I put my vote on him.

[Thok]

There are valid reasons. But I'm too lazy to repeat them. Trust the masons.

It's possible that rather than being masons, you and Glork are some of the Red Guard leaders faking a mason claim.

[Thok]

Given that we know that the Red Guard are a recruiting scum group, I'd think the mod would give them some knowledge of the type of groups they are recruiting.

Also, do you really think I'm Red Guard? I'll point out that both you and Fritz (a known Red Guard) jumped on me for claiming to have a post restriction day 2.

Finally, I'll repeat that I can clear myself instantaneously with a name claim.

[Thok]

From what I can tell of BJ's playstyle, he does seem slightly more protown then antitown (for him). I believe an antitown BJ at this point in the game would let himself get lynched to defend the remaining Red Guard/give them a chance to "clear" themselves. But that's just my assessment of him.

On the flip side, I'm pretty sure BJ's a safe lynch; I just think we can do better.

[Thok]

vote TSAGod

, lurker hunting.

[Thok]

I don't think that the BJ wagon is helpful in any way to the town. Twomz, you've been calling him out for his childish behavior, but examine the behavior of everyone on his wagon. Someone says, 'Hey, let's lynch BJ!" and 7 or 8 people just fall directly into line, INCLUDING the cop. In all probability, chamber got an innocent result. I just don't forsee him holding back a scum result, since, well, he hasn't once we 'confirmed' his sanity. These are the people we should be looking at for detrimental behavior.

Hi igota! You hadn't posted for over 10 days before this last post. Want to tell us what you've been up to?

[Thok]

unvote TSAGod, vote Y

, for using the word insinuating when it doesn't apply.

[Thok]

I believe that DGB is out of town on work, so she can't do a vote count. And I guess it's too much to ask stark to do a vote count for his own game.

Does somebody want to do one by hand?

[Thok]

Looking at flavor, it seems as if the Red Guards come in two flavors-Elite and Yunan. We've effectively slowed down the Yunan by killing of their recruiter (at least it seems like they can't kill anymore), so our main goal should be to find Elite Red Guard Recruiter.

I'll also note that the Red Guards seem to have an even/odd thing going on.

With nothing else better to do,

vote Y

[Thok]

Like I mentioned in my previous post, the flavor suggests that the Red Guard comes in two flavors; Elite and Yunan. Given Y's actions on the SOS bandwagon, he's probably Elite (if he's scum).

[Thok]

The obvious solution is to ask Shamrock to only submit his own name (assumming he can do that).

That said, I'd rather hunt the Elite Guard recruiter rather than a Red Guard recruit today-Y's more likely to be such a recruiter.

[Thok]

As a side note, has anybody gone back and tried to analyze the meaning of the day one post restrictions? I've been meaning to do that, but I haven't had much time.

[Thok]

Becuase I honestly think that we can find a better lynch today than Shamrock. (Red Guard Recruiter is better than Red Guard Recruitee). But hey, I could be wrong.

Do we want chamber to release his guilty anytime soon?

[Thok]

Ah, I misread chamber's earlier comment; he was in fact ambiguous about getting aguilty rather than merely holding back a guilty.

If nobody wants to try and analyze various people's play in order to hunt for the other recruiter, I'm willing to

unvote Y, vote Shamrock

. At least it will give us some insight into the Red Guard structure.

[Thok]

unvote, vote Y

[Thok]

Should we try to direct the Red Guard choices? Perhaps have Bacde and Shamrock target each other?

[Thok]

Glork-having them target each other could theoreticaly slow down any recruiting that happens.

Also, have I missed where chamber is cleared? A mafia cop isn't that unlikely in this setup (maybe 20% right now). Yes, he did give us Fritzler, but notice that Fritz is listed in the casualties as

unnamed

Red Guard rather than either Yunan or Elite; perhaps chamber just gave us a person who declined recruitment also?

(My really paranoid theory for the day is that chamber is the second recruiter and that's where he's getting his cop info from.)

[Thok]

Suggesting that two people that appear cleared for now would kill each other just to check something isn't such a good idea...
How will it slow down the recruiting?

Because it will force the recruiter to attempt to recruit people that are

already recruited

.

Of course he's a recruiter... He recruited Fritzler, Shamrock, Bacde and

both SKs

. That's a good one.

FoS Thok.

1. chamber didn't give us mlaker; we caught him as a deadline lynch before on day 1 before any night actions occured.

2. We've said there are two recruiters; I'd just need chamber to attempt to recruit his claimed investigation targets under this theory (Fritzler, Pug, and Bacde).

3. Usually recruiters can't recruit SK's; that's how I'd be envisioning chamber catching Pug; this is also consistent with his other two investigations being recruits.

Like I said, it's a paranoid theory (and I specifically gave it a low probability of happening), but it is viable. Your flippant dismissal of it (and craplogic interpretation of my theory) isn't convincing me to unvote you.

[Thok]

Mod: Can we get a replacement for TSAGod?

He just had a mini (Stages of Life) declared mod abandoned.

[Thok]

Actually, we didn't.
Accusations were thrown at me because of a random reason and before I had the chance to answer, chamber revealed his guilty and everybody changed their votes.

I voted for you yesterday for being overaggressive in attacking BJ and mistating his claims in a way that seemd scummy to me. (That's the comments I made about you claiming that BJ was "implying he was a townie"). I am keeping my vote on you since you've also straw-manned my thoughts on chamber in what seems like an attempt to make me look bad.

Finally, chamber revealled his investigation already; he investigated Bacde and got an innocent on him.

[Thok]

I am keeping my vote on you since you've also straw-manned my thoughts on chamber in what seems like an attempt to make me look bad.

Straw-manned? You were saying we shouldn't trust the cop after two guiltys, saying he might be a recruiter accusing his recruits after he identified a SK.

I have no problem with you saying that my theory is wrong. I would consider the above statement reasonable.

I do have a problem with you misstating my theory by extending it in a ridiculous way that I never intended. (That's what a Straw Man is, and that's what you clearly did.) You claimed that I was asking for chamber to be the sole recruiter, who attempted to recruit like 5 people, including both of the SK's. I never claimed that.

[Thok]

I reread the post and I know what you're talking about. That's called

cynicism

. Not only that, I never said that you said it. I posted it as a cynic theory to prove what you're saying, thus proving the opposite.

And in two sentences, you've given essentially the definition of what a strawman is. But keep arguing that you're not doing that.

(I'll remind you-you attacking me for my thoughts on chamber by itself isn't suspicious. The method by which you attacked me is suspicious.)
-------------------

I decided to look at some of Y's earlier posts to see what he was doing early game.

I found this comment earlier (post 107). (And yes, I realize that it was again in response to me speculating on the set-up).

There is also the possibility of a Mao influenced cult (the term cult of personality comes up a lot in Wikipedia's articles about the Cultural Revolution).

What do you mean by that? I really think a Mao influenced cult would represent the mafia. That's the flavor of this game. What you're saying is pretty obvious...

I'm trying to decide if this means anything, now that it seems like the remaining scum is in fact a Mao influenced group (the Red Guards) with cultlike properties.

Y was also the first person to start speculating on the size of scum groups (post 102), which he did because he claimed that analyzing the post restrictions wasn't going to be helpful. He also put out the "the night scenes imply there are 6 mafia" theory on day 2.

[Thok]

I'm a cynical person. Being cynical and straw-manning are two different things.

The sentence you quoted was before I knew the difference between "Cult" and "Mafia", IIRC. I thought you were talking about the game's flavour.

I was speculating about the size of the scum group. So what? It's my fist non-newb game and I didn't know how we can proceed.

1. Feel free to explain what you think is the difference between "cynical" and "strawmanning"; otherwise we will be stuck arguing all day.

2. You do notice that I specifically said I wasn't sure what your post 107 means? I could see it as an argument either way (for you being Red Guard or not being Red Guard); as much as anything I wanted to see your reaction to me bringing it up (and also other people's reactions).

[Thok]

In chambers's defense, a lot of our townie roles have had what appear to be fictional names. Not everybody can be a Mao Zedong or a Marshall Peng Dehuai.

It's a cameo appearance by Coron! Any thoughts Coron?

I think I'd rather continue with the Y bandwagon then push chamber/lynch bacde.

[Thok]

Give us flavor for your role-you've claimed a weak backup role, at the last minute and only when prompted.

Plus, Dingwei isn't a normal Chinese last name, as far as a good Google search tells me.

So yeah, I'm not really trusting your claim.

[Thok]

Curious. I looked at Y's posts at the beginning of day 3 (after the one known misdiagonsed death), and I trying to decide if they should be seen as being consistent with his claim roles.

unvote

to have a little time for discussion.

Y-do you know what the percentage of failure is? I'm trying to decide if we should ask the doc's to work as a vig rather than as a doc (basically target scum in an attempt to get a misdiagnosis, rather than targeting protown players hoping to avoid misdiagnosis).

[Thok]

If what Glork is said is true, than ether Y is cult, or will be culted soon. And from what I know I can believe his explanation of the flavor.

vote Y

[Thok]

Go town!

[Thok]

Hi. I am (as Shamrock claimed) a townie, who was offered a chance to recruited by the Red Guard, declined, was forcefully drafted by the Red Guard, but still wins with the town.

Just double checking claims

1. Vismaior-Mason with Glork/CES
2. BabyJesus-Barefoot doc
3. Vaughn-Mason with Abbey/Ameliaslay
4. Twomz-Townie
5. Thok (replacing Shamrock)-townie who was recruited by the Red Guard and declined.
6. Coron-Roleblocker
7. feuerdrache/AbbeyGargoyle-Mason with Vaughn/Ameliaslay

I'm willing to put the hammer on Coron-the only other option I could see for scum is if one of the mason kids were recruited. There's also a tiny chance Twomz was recruited-I can't see BJ being scum at all.

I'm going to submit my own name tonight to see what happens.

[Thok]

huh? townies submit names? huh?

So it's impossible that BJ could have been recruited you think? Why? I mean if it's voting patterns I've already covered that issue, and my voting patterns are as good if not better.

As a recruited player, I submit names. It's possible that it will do nothing depending on who has recruited me.

BJ's done some fairly protown things after the known recruiters were killed-he defended viper for example and tried to docprotect Glork. It's extremely unlikely in my mind that he's been recruited.

[Thok]

I know what the name submitting does. It's not a recruiting thing.

Specifically a red guard recruiter can only choose to kill targets from submitted names.

Coron-any reason why you seem to have exactly the same role as MMoD?

[Thok]

And before you ask, Shamrock never submitted a name.

[Thok]

I consider that a good argument that Coron is a roleblocker, but there's still the separate issue of whether he is scum. If he's not scum, then I'm tempted to look at Vismaior or Twomz. (You people should obviously include me in that group also).

[Thok]

*slams head on desk* once again. You guys fuck up. And before I die I give you a thing that shows you who the scum are. This time my vote.

Phail.

I admit I couldn't help being lynched dispite my Hella good voting record(which somewhat suprises me, I guess town messed that one up too...)

Seriously guys, we had this game so frickin won it's not funny.

I don't think your lynch was stupid. (Although in retrospect I should have pushed more on Twomz that day.)

I do think the BJ lynch was incredibly dumb, and I think that Lowell was way too hasty with his vote in a lynch or lose situation.

[Thok]

Yeah, honestly, if anything, i think the scum was overpowered. After several scum mistakes, including mine, the town lynched one of us almost every single day for quite a while. It required a lot of skill for Twomz to come back and win after all that, he played very well, but honestly, it was only possible for us scum to get that many of us lynched that early and still win becuase our kill/recruit powers were kind of crazy.

Given the theme, I don't mind that this game is unbalanced. I mean, it's not like the Cultural Revolution should be anything but a violent bloodbath.