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Post #693 (isolation #9) » Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:40 pm
Postby Seacore »
DeityKabuto wrote:
elvis_knits wrote:lol
So this is how you chose to defend yourself?
The word 'defend' here implies that your attack was effective in any way.
Basically you've aimed your bow and arrow at ek and then fired in the opposite direction, into an ocean, and missed all the fish.
And now you're questioning why EK hasn't raised a shield.
predicted response: oh, now I've caught 3 scum buddies!
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Post #701 (isolation #10) » Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:16 pm
Postby Seacore »
Has anybody voted for you today DK? no. We just think your case is dumb and do not support it.
And this is the last word I'll say on your case:
Town do not know whether something will be a mislynch or not. So couldn't EK just have been town, supporting what many of us thought would be a scum lynch?
If we followed you, and voted EK, lynched her and then she flipped town, would you be proven scum? No, you were just proven wrong.
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Post #745 (isolation #12) » Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:40 pm
Postby Seacore »
Did Snarky just pre-emptively defend himself with NK speculation? Or is it a response to something in Hez's Wall that I'm not going to read?
Because if it isn't, it really stands out as odd. Like he's quietly standing in a corner and then starts shouting "don't look at me, they're all trying to make you look at me"
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Post #977 (isolation #21) » Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:33 pm
Postby Seacore »
Hey look, I'm main wagon and it's Day 3, that sounds about right. It always happens, and I'm always town.
Look, I look bad because I've been skimming this game. This is a combination of post explosions and me being useless in early game during large games.
I chose CKD over Hez because we had a claimed cop and a claimed carnivore. It seemed an easy choice to me.
Yeah, I didn't mention Hez much, but go back and look at how many players I do mention, very few, again, because I've been skimming.
Also, I'm so sick of people saying "don't hunt for an SK when town is losing". Sure, that would be fine, we should be looking for scum over an SK. But when an SK lands in our lap we should kill him.
However, I've thought a bit over it and the fact that he can only kill lurkers and I'm guessing he can only kill them during the day, makes him fairly easy to leash.
So as long as CKD says he will not kill any more lurkers unless he asks permission, then that's fine by me.
You'll get some actual reads from me in a while when I go back and analyse the game a bit more.
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Post #981 (isolation #23) » Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:19 pm
Postby Seacore »
elvis_knits wrote:
Seacore wrote:EK, it wouldn't surprise me if scum were given all the VT animals at the beginning of the game. Makes sense, scum would know what's on the menu.
I've never heard of anything REMOTELY like this.
...
Ya know, there are few things scum hate more than confirmed townies. It makes the game soooo much harder for them to win because they're already trying to kill power roles and people who suspect them.
Normally there is a single VT flavour. This game clearly has multiple.
Scum usually start with knowing the single VT flavour (enabling them to not get screwed by a masslclaim), This game may allow them to know the multiple VT flavours.
Imagine what would happen with a D1 massclaim of animals. We'd have heaps more antelopes than anybody else, then it's revealed that gazelles and zebras are also VTs. But antelopes were the only sample provided. We'd know the scum are in there. Easy win.
In theme games based on stories (novels, movies, tv shows) it's not uncommon to give fake claim characters out to players.
In my colour concentration game there were 3 different colours that were town, I told the scum what those colours were.
So I repeat it would not surprise me at all if the scum were told "VTs in this game are antelopes, gazelles and zebras" or whatever.
Also, I've watched games absolutely destroyed by "confirmed town" when they aren't. Go read A Storm of Swords mafia for evidence. Hascow won the game with a single D1 gambit that "couldn't possibly come from scum"
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Post #982 (isolation #24) » Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:27 pm
Postby Seacore »
Hmph, turns out on revision that the sample PM is an elephant... my bad. I must have read Vezok's early claim, combined with the day 1 flip that made me think that was the Sample PM. Told you I was skimming.
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Post #1001 (isolation #25) » Thu Jun 30, 2011 5:21 pm
Postby Seacore »
I'll provide reads, but I've already explained why I didn't mention Hez. The same reason I didn't mention half a dozen other people.
But I'll be V/LA this weekend, driving my wife to her parent's house. But she'll be staying the week with them, so I'll have PLENTY of time to read through early next week.
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Post #1054 (isolation #26) » Sun Jul 03, 2011 1:17 am
Postby Seacore »
Altilysian – My gut reaction was that he was posting a lot of reaction and questioning, but little of substance, and therefore that he was scummy. But a stronger read doesn’t confirm this. There’s some concrete stances in there, so that pushes it towards town. Still, my gut reaction hasn’t gone away, but I’m going to go with analysis this game and say Town.
Amrun – Town read. Strong stances, good questions, doesn’t stay quiet about wagons that she disagrees with.
Calcifer – I could see Calcifer as a Hez buddy. Quick hammer, doesn’t voice any possibility that Hez might be telling the truth, that maybe there are two scum teams, not 1 + SK. If CKD is an SK, then I think Hez got unlucky with his fake cop, and Calcifer put him out of his misery. Scum read
Cirno – Seems to make a genuine attempt to cut through the bullshit and actually seek answers, town read
CKD- Claimed Hyena in a game that’s shortest advertisement read “A predator vs prey game” Enough said.
DK – Frustrating to read because he doesn’t seem to add anything to the game. Odd questions, random stances. Null
Earworm – Reads as town to me, but that could be because I agree with most of his comments.
EK – Read as town, but I always read strong confident players as town, haven’t seen anything to make me doubt this though.
Evilpacman – I can’t tell whether he’s a bad player, scum or bad scum. On my ‘will lynch’ list for some seriously bad posts. Like trying to score browny points for my current wagon because he made a bad case against me D1.
FA – Feels like scum. A lot of the pointed questions feel like trying to get other players to make cases on his targets, or alternatively getting other players to go defending other players. Maybe I just don’t like the style, but it reads as scum to me.
GreyIce – Apart from GI’s predictable rage against fate, he’s playing one of the strongest town games I’ve seen him play in a while. I just finished a game where we were both town and I’m getting the same vibes off him.
Llamarble reads like he’s coasting, and that could really be either, so I’ll go null for now
Lowel is much the same, except that it just feels so much more opportunistic. Scum read.
Tajo – Reads as town based on his reaction to yesterday’s lynch and claims.
Snarky reads as scummy as all get out, but jumped off my wagon at the worst time for scum. So, if Snarky is scum, I think a bunch of people on my wagon must be. I say this without looking at the wagon make up at the time that snarky jumped off, so I’ll go and have a look after this is done.
Vezok – I can never read vezok, always plays the same. The early claim doesn’t change my lack of read either. I’d be happy for a vig here, we’re not going to get a scum kill
Ze – Reads as town despite the fact that I disagree with a lot of his conclusions.
So what’s that bring my reads to
Lowel,
FA
Calcifer
Maybe Snarky
And then of course CKD.
I"m going to do a little more reading and I'll post a vote.
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Post #1055 (isolation #27) » Sun Jul 03, 2011 1:22 am
Postby Seacore »
Oh and add EP to my list as well, missed him in my quick read over.
So that brings Snarky back into the game. With both FA and EP on my wagon, snarky may have felt that there was too much scum on my wagon and jumped off.
Also, my answer to the question of why I didn't mention Hez remains the same. I was skimming. I saw the claim of Hyena. That really ended the discussion as far as I was concerned.
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Post #1077 (isolation #29) » Sun Jul 03, 2011 12:19 pm
Postby Seacore »
I think there is plenty of space in the concept of "CKD-Hyena" is not-town than is just "SK". He could be another scum team that is balanced in a different way, or any number of third parties... and I see Cirno has basically just said the same, very good. I've played around with other scum teams, gimping them in some ways but giving them bonuses in others, I see no reason why llama couldn't do so .
I agree with the interpretation of lionscum. I think it can only be viewed as a slip "IF" you think he meant "the scum team that is all lion" and IF that scum team actually exists and he's on it. There's too much IF there when a simple "allied with Hez-lion" is an easier explanation.
I'll look into the GI thing and the specific case in a bit.
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Post #1080 (isolation #31) » Sun Jul 03, 2011 12:49 pm
Postby Seacore »
I agreed with ending the flavour argument.
I don't think he's part of Hez's team.
I think he's likely not town and thus it'd be good if he died.
I don't want him lynched today unless we get truly desperate.
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Post #1081 (isolation #32) » Sun Jul 03, 2011 12:57 pm
Postby Seacore »
EBWOP: I mean I agree with ending the flavour argument. (Present tense, not past tense)
Also, apologies, buy I missed that there had been a scavenger kill each day, I thought we'd only had one D1. That's what I get for catching up via ISOs.
I'm even more happy to leave CKD alone at this point and see how the scavenging proceeds. So far he either has to keep getting rid of lurkers or we catch him in a lie, so yay for us.
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Post #1083 (isolation #33) » Sun Jul 03, 2011 5:59 pm
Postby Seacore »
Well, I think that Hyena, if scavenging is neither predator nor prey, thus the third party argument... but anyway, moving on.
It's hard for us to comment on his kill ability when we don't know the mechanic, but I understand why he hasn't revealed exactly what it is.
Since we've been successful in killing a scum, I'm open for him scavenging freely for at least another day. It'll help obtain a better read of him. Worst case we lose some level of lurker.
As for pacman. My inclination is that he's scum. But again, this may be because I hate the "too scummy to be scum" defense.
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Post #1104 (isolation #39) » Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:49 pm
Postby Seacore »
Amrun wrote:So what are you saying? That you are playing worse than vezok?
No, I'm saying that Vezok has a reputation as someone who always looks scummy. So people just let it slip by because most of the time lynching scummy Vezok = lynching town.
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Post #1107 (isolation #40) » Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:38 pm
Postby Seacore »
I'm not as convinced Ze, but you've definitely got me wavering now.
Sigh.
I guess I'll be starting my own wagon then, since I don't like any of the current ones.
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Post #1110 (isolation #41) » Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:51 pm
Postby Seacore »
yeah, happy to move my vote away from Lowell if he gets vigged. But I've got quite a few people on my want to see vig list. Like we could have vezok dead, yes?
Anyway, I'm happy to vote for any of my scum reads, including snarky, but they'll all be first vote on the wagon, so there's no hurry.
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Post #1116 (isolation #43) » Mon Jul 04, 2011 3:19 pm
Postby Seacore »
Like I said, I'm happy for the vig to get him. But if he keeps popping in to vote every 2.9 days and we keep saying "eventually the vig will get him" then he gets to end game.
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Post #1120 (isolation #44) » Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:33 pm
Postby Seacore »
I don't think EK is obvtown, I think EK is both strong (because the player is good) and town. But I agree, we shouldn't let that slip into obvtown. So far there's nobody that I'm writing off that way.
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Post #1178 (isolation #48) » Tue Jul 05, 2011 1:42 pm
Postby Seacore »
Actually, you'll notice in that one that GI starts fairly calm and grows more caustic as pressure mounts... meta-wise that doesn't look great for him...
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Post #1218 (isolation #49) » Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:34 am
Postby Seacore »
I don't see GreyIce scum here, I also don't see Amrun scum here. But that obviously puts me in the minority.
Still, I'd much rather a DK kill today. C'mon, we can't let him survive to end game, it'd be terrible no mater what alignment he is, and I think he's scum.
Vote DK
Tajo, I don't think your quote up there is a slip necessarily, but he's still scum.
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Post #1228 (isolation #50) » Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:25 pm
Postby Seacore »
I'm scum because I've stated that I think Grey is town and I've looked for a place to put my vote that will actually DO something?
Interesting...
If I'm scum and Grey is scum I'm doing it to protect him and push for a counterwagon
If I'm scum and Grey is town I'm doing it to buddy to Grey and earn some points with white knighting
If I'm town (and therefore don't know Grey's alignment) I'm doing it because I think they Grey is town and want to lynch someone I find scummy.
So you know, there's actually lots of interpretations for my actions, not just the ones your confirmation bias allows.
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Post #1248 (isolation #52) » Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:38 pm
Postby Seacore »
EP, how am I misrepping this post:
Llamarble wrote:
Seacore is moving to scumland after this counterwagoning.
with this?
Seacore wrote:I'm scum because I've stated that I think Grey is town and I've looked for a place to put my vote that will actually DO something?
Interesting...
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Post #1257 (isolation #53) » Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:47 pm
Postby Seacore »
Ze, I'm not arguing that trying to lynch somebody who you think is town is a good idea or a pro-town idea, but claiming that's what you're doing is just something scum wouldn't do.
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Post #1310 (isolation #56) » Sun Jul 10, 2011 12:49 pm
Postby Seacore »
I'm okay with lynching anybody on the GreyIce wagon. Not that I think they're all scum, but I'm happy with the theory that the majority of scum are there.
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Post #1312 (isolation #57) » Sun Jul 10, 2011 3:33 pm
Postby Seacore »
Yeah, like I said, any of them. If a vezok wagon starts up I'll join it. CAn't say exactly why I chose the two I did, I glanced at the wagon list and picked two names that felt right.
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Post #1314 (isolation #58) » Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:22 pm
Postby Seacore »
Is there a case on EK yet? Or is she just the person on the GI wagon that scum are least resistant to forming a wagon on, so it's just naturally happening?