The Children of Húrin Mafia (GREAT REVIVAL)
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MagnaofIllusion has been killed Night 1
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Oh, so Gandalf began yet another LOTR themed game with a stupid “I’m Gandalf gambit”. Well at least reactions will be useful for getting reads.
Gandalf voters based on his ‘claim’ – Empking, Spyrex, Kayne, Furc, LC, Kats
Clearly if Gandalf is Town there is scum on this wagon. No doubt about it. I give more weight to scum likelihood under this scenario from those who actually played in Plum / Andy’s LOTR game (Spyrex, Kats).
As much as I’d like to vote Furc for being his normal terrible self I don’t see his reaction as scum-driven at this point. Much more like the flailing I saw in Stars Aligned 3. I am going to have to go back and read Bold and Beautiful Mafia 1 again to see what his Day 1 play looked like there before I solidly place him as “not scum”
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Ludi wrote:@ Magna I read invictus. What is it that make you lay down a serious vote?
Who says that is a serious vote, in that it was backed by intent to actually lynch?
@Ludi– I’m very curious about your post 13. You were able to instantly cobble together that reaction post to Gandalf’s obv-fake claim in 9 minutes.
You didn’t play in Plum’s prior LOTR game. Why were you so tuned into Gandalf’s play and insistent he clarify if he was fake-claiming or not?
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Empking wrote:Vote: Gandalf
Either scum, third party or anti-town.
Oh, so you’ve narrowed down his alignment to either scum, 3rd party or idiotic Town. Good work and an excellent reason for a vote.
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Spyrex wrote:Get yer votes off me I'm a magical princess.
PUT THEM WHERE THEY BELONG
Unvote, Vote: Gandalf
Spyrex wrote:Page 4 lynch. Page 4 lynch.
I’m now sad … you drew scum this game didn’t you Spyrex? Playing with scum Spyrex is a chore (StarsAligned 3, Ooba's Game of Thrones recent large). But I think you probably did draw scum. Because Town Vig Spyrex saw this whole song and dance from Gandalf the last time and mis-vigged him. And Town Spyrex knows for sure that early lynches for lulz in Large Themes (aka Invictus) are terrible.
@GUT– I’m completely sorry I bothered to jokingly scold you earlier.
UNVOTE: Gut
VOTE: Spyrex
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Wisp wrote:Why not an actual random vote?
How is Pere’s vote on Gut based on a user-name joke not a random vote? What is an actual random vote to you?
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Andrius wrote:Ok wow gandalf's claim is balls-to-the-wall.
Somehow, even though I KNOW this game is bastard, that seems to be a bit too STRETCHED. I think it'd be predictable for BastarD_Plum to give gandalf Gandalf, but mehhhh he wasn't in Silmarillion so ehhh.
You Co-Modded with Plum on LOTR so I don’t buy for a second the obv-fake claim from Gandalf didn’t cross your mind.
The “But he was using it to Breadcrumb in LOTR” doesn’t fly with his obv bold crumbing also.
On the other hand I see things in that post that read as Town Andy to me. And you didn't jump to vote Gandalf. So you are off the hook for the moment.
Andrius wrote:predit: Ok kanye has a good point that I missed. He's not town because town wouldn't claim a non-town wincon. Sorry about that. :S
No, because dumb, gambitting Town have done so in the past. I’ll direct you to the link from [REDACTED] when it ends.
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Mastermind wrote:The first counterwagon that starts on someone voting gandalf, poke me. I'll be down for that.
POKE– Come vote Spyrex."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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Kats wrote:What a surprise, MOI doesn't even bother reading.
What a surprise, Kats drops a pointless 1 liner and provides no content
I’ve read the thread … have you? Why don’t you actually do something for once and show me why you ‘think’ (using the term loosely for your purposes) I am not reading.
Not that I’m expecting more than a “NO U” response …
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Gandalf wrote:I think this is a bad assumption. I think those people might feel MORE justified to vote me again, due to the WIFOM involved in me doing it twice in a row. And once again, i think the weird reaction from Andy is due to him realizing what my real role was and not wanting to reveal it. I'll let him speak for himself, but I think he was just trying to perpetuate the thing because he thought it was funny.
No it isn’t a bad assumption. It is spot on. Let me elaborate via theoretical example –
Player X has a history of making claims that he feels are important to Town early Day 1 (like Miller and Hated Townie). He also once claimed Miller as scum early Day 1.
In this theoretical example game I claim Miller immediately Day 1. What is the proper play to make? That answer is – to ignore it for purposes of scum-hunting. Being more likely to vote for Player X because he claimed Miller for the WIFOM is stupid.
In this case Gandalf has demonstrated in Large Theme games he has made stupid claims Day 1 immediately to ‘generate content’ and ‘breadcrumb’. Spyrex and Katsuki both have DIRECTLY seen this. The Town approach is not to vote for you because of WIFOM. It is to ignore the claim and focus on the other aspects of your play.
Yet Spyrex and Kats both jumped to “Luzl, Gandalf is scum”. So unless they are aligned with you and somehow know for a fact you are scum making a stupid gambit for the luzl there is no overriding reason for Town Spyrex or Town Kats to jump immediately on the Gandalf wagon and go “OBV SCUM LYN CH IT WITH FIRE”."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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So I poked you about the Spyrex scum counterwagon to Gandalf as you requested. Why ignore it?
Not that I disagree with the Kats vote but both Spyrex and Kayne are both more viable counterwagons. Do you think Kats is a stronger candidate for scum?"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 230, Will-o-wisp wrote:MoI, a random vote is that. Random. Peregrine did not randomly vote Gut, if he did, he wouldn't have made that horrible pun.
What's your point? No vote is truly random. Trying to ascribe any sort of scummy motivation for making a first vote based on a Username pun is in itself more scummy than whatever transgression you are trying to apply to Peregrine for that vote."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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Andrius wrote:I don't either. Noflavor roomfor TWO of us.
Andrius wrote:Also, gandalf, I considered doing what you did and trolling, but then I realized thatI'm most likely town via flavor.
Based on the bolded I can scratch what was my initial Andy Town read.
Andrius wrote:I’m very sad with Spy right now.
I think he'd TRY as scum though.
I don't really want to vote him though- something tells me that'd be a bad idea. Almost likes he wants to be lynched. Goddamn.
Ouch. Do you remember how much that fence post hurts to sit on?
Andrius wrote:Yeah, but this isn't Fate. This is gandalf.
Why do you think Fate is the only person who does stupid shit? And what relevance does Fate have given that Gandalf pulled this exact same stupid shit in THE GAME YOU CO-MODDED WHEN HE WAS TOWN?
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Kats wrote:Considering your response to my post is already a "NO U"...
A wild Lulz Troll appears ….
It uses “Stupid One Liner” ….
It’s not very effective ….
Kats wrote:I would actually argue the opposite for Spyspy.
The Lulz Troll uses “Buddy like a Boss”
It’s still not very effective ….
The wild Lulz Troll was defeated.
At this point I’ll be happy to switch my vote to Kats instead of Spy as the probable scum on the Gandalf wagon.
In fact I think I will
UNVOTE: Spyrex
VOTE: Katsuki
Just like Lord of the Rings Mafia again. Scum Kats nailed Day 1. Good times … good times."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
Pretty much Geriatric game restricted at this point ... unless there are players I REALLY want to play with.-
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In post 235, Katsuki wrote:
YES
I BUDDY SCUM
ALL DAY EVERY DAY
^This is analysis from MOI, pro scumhunter.
Lulz. Your deeply biting insult wounds me Kats.
I doubt very much that there are tons of scum on that wagon. This is a Large game and it certainly isn't a lynching wagon. So it is deciding which of the players there is scum. Yourself, Spyrex and Kayne currently are my top three suspects.
But continue to not address the fact that your reasons for calling Gandalf scum make absolutely no sense from a Town perspective given what you directly saw in LOTR Mafia."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 240, Katsuki wrote:
Don't know about LOTR, but they make 100% sense given what I saw from SITMOA II, as I already said before.
But we already know that you're going out of your way to NOT read my posts.
I have no idea what SITMOA II is. Did Gandalf make an obviously stupid fake claim Early Day 1 there also? If not what is the point of you repeatedly bringing it up?
You don't know about LOTR? Whut? Trying to outright downplay the obvious parrallel between his behavior this game and that game? You can do better than that Kats. Well, maybe you can't but you could pretend!"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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Um, whut?
1. Thread has been open about 28 hours and you are saying someone is lurking?
2. Why aren't Dekes, VitaminR, Peregrine, Wraith, Chronopie, Sun and Moon and mockinjaye lurking scum? All have post counts equal to or less than LC. I'm really curious what sets them apart (especially those who have yet to actually post) and makes LC obv-scum."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 256, Ellibereth wrote:posting elsewhere.
In post 257, Ellibereth wrote:hydras are excused due to quicktopics.
So you can be lurking while not even qualifying for a prod via game rules. But Hydras are exempt because they have QTs that no-one can see and thus know are actually being used. Not to mention you at least 2 people on my list qualify as posting elsewhere in the same time-frame.
I think I need to go lie down ... my brain is starting to hurt."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
Pretty much Geriatric game restricted at this point ... unless there are players I REALLY want to play with.-
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MOD – I’ll be V/LA from today at 4pm EST until Monday morning for my usual weekend family duries.
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Elli wrote:Yes. Yes. I dunno didn't bother to check.
Well you should find lurking scummy since you tend to do so as scum yourself. I don’t necessarily agree with your stance on those issue but I’ll just wait for Chrono to become ‘obv-scum’ in other ways then.
Also please read Wraith’s ISO and tell me he isn’t a prime Lurkerscum candidate.
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Spyrex wrote:MoI, this is a simple yes/no that I never thought I'd actually have to ask:
You're saying my play here somehow mimics my other play as scum?
No. I think your play here doesn’t make sense from a Town perspective given the things I know Town Spyrex has seen. Subtle but important difference.
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Magister wrote:So much noise. Quick lynch someone dodging the game in hopes of not being noticed.
Magister wrote:Yeah, but the fact remains there is probably one scum out of Lord Chronos or Chronopie who are dodging this thread and the craziness and hoping no one notices.
Oh so you want to quicklynch someone ‘dodging’ the game not open 48 hours? And ignoring the many other people I listed who were just as guilty to focus on only LC or Chrono? Scumtastic Ludi.
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Kats wrote:Everything is already answered for you in my iso.
I don't know about LOTR because that game was a long time ago and I've forgotten about it. I love how you're trying to twist this into something scummy though.
No it isn’t. But I can see best case regardless of alignment you are going to be a useless, obstructionist prick. Noted.
And your response on LOTR is comical.
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Espeonage wrote:Ugh i was hoping to save that debate. To put it simply kanye has every right to want a lynch on Gandalf, however he is using the complete wrong reasons. It is rather common for there to be non malicious third parties that can co-exhist with the town.
Well enlighten us on what the correct reason is. I’m not seeing it."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
Pretty much Geriatric game restricted at this point ... unless there are players I REALLY want to play with.-
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Wraith, Sun and Moon, Chronopie and Dekes all pretty much are content free this game. At this point given I’d wager at least 1 scum is lurking there.
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Ludi wrote:Sorry, this is wrong. I looked for people with very low post count but had posted several times in other game, who had dodged posting in this thread for a day while posting else where.
Who did you list as just as guilty? And why would I want to utilize your list, whose alignment is unknown, instead of my own reasoning, which I know comes from town.
No, it isn’t wrong. You cannot logically and reasonably assert someone is lurking when they aren’t even due a prod.
Games have differing stages. This game is in the very early stages of the game. Other games may be at critical moments. As long as someone is posting at a rate that does not require prodding and is providing content I don’t see your attack as valid.
And I’m going to turn the question back on you Magister … why should I use your reasoning which comes from someone with unknown alignment instead of my own which I know is Town?
Ludi wrote:While I sort out gandalf's pseudo scum claim...
Fos: Chronopie
18 posts since last posting here, several of which coming today? For shame!
Hmmm … more activity hunting as your primary (really only) method of scum-hunting so far? Scum points again.
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Kats wrote:YOU KEEP ASKING FOR WHAT SITMOA II HAS TO DO WITH GANDALF
FUCKING ISO POST #1
BUT OF COURSE YOU'D RATHER NOT READ, AND USE LIES TO FUEL MORE ATTACKS
I’ve read ISO 1. It says that SITMOA 2 shows non-harmful Gandalf third party play.
This in no way answers my question – why do you think Gandalf’s play there is more relevant to his alignment here than the LOTR game?
It was a simple question that you dodged. Thus I properly called you out on being obstructionist.
Kats wrote:Just shut the fuck up, because you're always wrong. And there are more than enough games to back that up.
If you can't learn to keep insults out of your posts, why play mafia.
Basically
FUCK
YOU
FUCKING
POMPOUS
DOUCHEBAG
The irony here makes me chuckle.
The totality of post 366 is basically a tantrum saying “You caught me for bad reasons”
More Kats votes for great justice!
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Furc wrote:If Katsuki faking a towntell of flailing and allcapsing
Does Katsuki do that as scum?
Yes. Vote him if you aren’t already.
Furc wrote:I could see how this wagon on Katsuki goes, or vote Gandalf for the following reasons:
Kats is a good and righteous wagon on scum for scum play and you want to play “Lynch all Liars”?
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Andy wrote:Sorry for confusing you.
You aren’t confusing me. I’m directly saying that I find it suspect that you are using source flavor alone as justification of alignment. Especially in a game labelled bastard.
Andy wrote:Except he wasn't.
Oh he was. Several of us clearly called him obv-scum. And he killed me for it.
It was too bad we were busy lynching other obv-scum. Not enough lynches in that day that game.
Andy wrote:Explain this.
Namely, where this is from.
I thought it was pretty self-explanatory. It is a joke meant to convey that the poster isn’t seeing ANY Town play from other players in thread and is frustrated.
I’m not at liberty to say where exactly it originated from currently.
Andy wrote:LC isn't a lurker, he just posts REALLY infrequently. /OLYMPUS
Um LC was scum there. Hard to justify giving him a pass for infrequent posting when your source game shows it as scum behavior
--"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 472, Wraith wrote:Hang on, I just realized something.
Didn't Turin Turambar get his memories wiped and romance his own sister at some point?
Great ... more flavor speculation.
WHO IS SCUM? Your ISO is basically Prod-dodging and this."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
Pretty much Geriatric game restricted at this point ... unless there are players I REALLY want to play with.-
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Empking wrote:^disappointing
This little bit of fluff caused me to look at the Empking ISO and compare it to Empking Town in Jungle Republic and Empking Scum in [REDACTED] and A Song of Fire and Ice.
The results say “SCUM”.
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Ellie wrote:It's ok
Me doing nothing will always be more obvtown than you doing something.
No, because you doing nothing is playing to your scum meta.
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Espeonage wrote:I feel like I need to post. However there really isn't much going on. Don't really feel like stirring the pot at the moment.
Espeonage wrote:Ask me a question mister baker.
Ok, so Espeonage is scum. Lovely.
I get double bonus points if he is Investigation Immune scum of some sort baiting an investigation like Wolframhart’s game.
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Andrius wrote:]Just because its bastard doesn't mean it would go against good solid flavor.
This is why I find your flavor speculation so troublesome. Source flavor may not have ANYTHING to do with the source material or not. It is absolutely true that being a Bastard game may have nothing to do with alignments not equalling flavor. It may also be relevant. So continuing to discuss source flavor as if it absolutely dictates game alignment I find troublesome.
For example … everyone is assuming all the ‘major players’ will be in the game and Town (as far as I can tell .. not really flavor savy myself). Why isn’t it possible one of them is a fake-claim or contra-alignment designated this game. Until we get flips I’m assuming nothing (and even then will probably need someone to help sort out the “Yes, they make sense as Town” bit).
Andrius wrote:Ok, Magna, regardless of the fact that I'm failing in every attempt to prove myself, you DO understand my point, right?
Yes, you are clearly explaining your position. I just don’t necessarily ascribe to it at this juncture sans flips. Thus my comments.
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Vitamin wrote:Well, Katsuki is town.
Is this based on the replace-out request? If so explain how scum don’t replace out under pressure."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
Pretty much Geriatric game restricted at this point ... unless there are players I REALLY want to play with.-
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Lulz. You were Town in that game. Care to explain how it isn't representative again?
You pretty much instant pop-up when called out despite an ISO full of non-scumhunting and fluff does tell me that I'm probably right. Thanks for that!"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 477, Empking wrote:Because I don't normally catch scum early while being essentially unlynchable.
Did you seroiusly type this?
1. You spent as much time going after Town (me) as you did scum (Andrew). And both were basically for OMGUS reasons.
2. The only reason you were not lynched is that you claimed Seer. You would have been the lynch Day 1 for certain if not.
Also ... while waiting for your response I looked over several other Town games ISOs of yours.
I still see Empking scum."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 479, Empking wrote:Or to put it in another way "I was essentially unlynchable"? You seem to be disagreeing just to disagree (Your first point is objectively a lie if anyone would bother to look. Was there even a player called "Andrew" in the game?)
Also,
Explain the logic here.
like I asked you to.
You are right. I meant Neil. I guess I got my hack players mixed up in my head since I've played with Andrew more recently. And my first point is clearly not objectively a lie. Would you like me to pull the myriad of quotes where you call me scum and vote for me there?
The logic is that you are scum skating by on fluff but popped up almost immediately to say "Hey, that's not my Town meta" when I called you out. Who has more reason to try to undermine a read that isn't even accompanied by a vote yet? Scum."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
Pretty much Geriatric game restricted at this point ... unless there are players I REALLY want to play with.-
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@Dekes– I notice you completely avoid any sort of MoI read in your ‘catch-up post’. I’d like you to commit to a read in your next one.
Feysal’s498is an exercise in fairly long paragraphs that say nothing at all about anyone actually being scum. His “breadcrumbing like Spyrex” is a Town tell is useless, he rides the fence on saying anything conclusive re Alignment about Furc and drops more pointless flavor spec. My vote stays.
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Magister wrote:Vig List
1. Lord Chronos
2. Chronopie
3. gandalf
4. PeregrineV
This list lacks Espeonage, Empking, Dekes, Wraith, S&M (nice nickname ) and Feysal. I am sorely disappoint!
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Ellie wrote:Lurker lynches are awesome, and it's probably easier than going all casey on some big poster even if they're scummy etc. So someone not me.
Or we make vig list lynch list and then vig list vig list.
I agree, especially after Atomic Mafia.
Current people on my “Day 1 Lurker List” who I will vote for as needed are : Dekes, Choronopie, LC, Sun and Moon, mockingjaye, Wraith and maybe Vitamin R.
Ellie wrote: I think Katsu is town here. He wouldn't have replaced out as scum.
Um, why? He’s just come off a rather bad string of scum losses where he was killed fairly early. Getting significant heat Day 1 as scum, especially from little ol Me, is certainly something I could see causing scum him to throw up his hands in a tantrum.
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Vitamin wrote:See above. Having played with Kats face-to-face, this is my intuition about it.
Meh, I don’t buy it. See dram’s latest Large Theme Atomic Mafia and look at DGB. She basically played to her ‘Town meta’ that was supported by ‘face-to-face’ interaction and replaced out under pressure. Tada what do you know … she was scum.
I can understand your stance but don’t buy it.
For the record – what do you think of Kat’s push on Gandalf in light of the LOTR Mafia meta that both Andy and I have repeatedly stated. Independant of your Town read based on Kat's reaction, that is.
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Empking wrote:Oh please don't by calling it "a read" as if I'm trying to discredit a town read on another player.
I have a scum read on you based on your ISO and contributions. You immediately popped up immediately to say “No, you are wrong” while your contributions to actual scumhunting continue to be zero.
Trying to argue a Town game isn’t indicative of your Town play and that my read isn’t a ‘read’ isn’t doing anyting at all to change my perspective.
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Spyrex wrote:If that's not going to happen I'm going to implore the wagons to consolidate against this Kat wagon. Be it gandalf, will of the wisp or LC.
All of those are far, far better choices.
I’ll have to look back but were either WoW or LC on the Gandalf lulz wagon? If so then don’t expect any support from me without more than “I’m a Princess” unless it is a lurker lynch in which case I might join LC.
But what do you think of Espeonage? He’s on that horrid Gandalf wagon, isn’t providing any content, and generally is scumtastic. Would you support that wagon?
What about Empking? Up for an Empking scum lynch?"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
Pretty much Geriatric game restricted at this point ... unless there are players I REALLY want to play with.-
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In post 520, Empking wrote:
Are you honestly saying that you think that as random game is representitive and that there are never any outliers and weird games?
No. Are you honestly saying that I shouldn't trust my own direct observations of your play as Town and scum when assessing you? How long are you going to continue to "Why me"?"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 526, Gut wrote:She didn't replace out due to pressure.
The pressure you generate is far less than the irritation anyhow.
Justify it however you wish. She replaced out saying things like "What did I do to be suspected". She played scummy. I can't help that too many people are driven by "I like DGB, I'm not voting for her" as opposed to playing the actual game. In summary, I don't buy the explanation.
Funny despite the many irritating people I have to put up with I never replace out in a tanturm."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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Feysal is still for the rope. His continues to focus completely on Flavor-penis waving with Furc as opposed to actually giving reads (hint … it’s fluff).
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Empking wrote:Yes you shouldn't trust a one-off observation unconditionally as if it was the secret of the universe. I'll freely admit that that's what I'm saying.
Nice straw-man Empking. First off I’m not ‘trusting it unconditionally” as you put. It’s not like I’m pulling a Fate and screaming like a moron about how you are 1000% confirmed scum. I’ve simply generated a scum read and posted it for Town’s benefit. Secondly it’s not a ‘one-off’ as you incorrectly suggested … I’m basing this read on three separate observations of your play.
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Espeonage wrote:Do you ever read me as town?
Oh look … the fail Kats / Fate “Why suck and never read me right” defense. I’ll have to hunt through my games where you were also a player to see. I know they aren’t many since you have spent a lot of time flaking recently.
But humor me … are you asserting that you are demonstrating traits that you showed in WRH's Mini game? Put it on the record!
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Spyrex wrote:WoW was turbo Gan defense and on the Kayne wagon.
Um, so? I have attacked strongly the Gand wagon also and don’t have a Town read at all on KKB. I’ll certainly vote KKB on uselessness and the Gandalf wagon as needed. Yet you have a Town read on me apparently. I'm confused ...
Spyrex wrote:Aside from that I've got very strong feelings about KKB, Furc and you. I've got decent feelings about Kat, Empking and PV. Elli is a gut read.
Everyone else? In the dross.
Meh. I don’t have any reason to see Kats or KKB as Town. Sorry, I have only so much room in my heart for players who specifically play useless when possibly Town and that space is currently occupied by my Ellie-Town read and a small bit of MoS maybe Town.
At least you agree that there is a whole bunch of Meh in this game then. I’ll not bother you while you brush your hair, at least for the moment.
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Gut wrote:She stopped playing across the board. It's abundantly clear that she didn't replace out due to pressure in that game.
No, she didn’t, despite what her sig once said. A quick look at her threads would show this.
I remember why I dislike CES now ….
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S&M wrote:I am so sorry about this game. I'm going to fix it soon.
There has been a bit of miscommunication about who is going to be doing the posting... *sigh*
I see lots of shitwalls, though, and that makes me sad.
-Amrun
S&M wrote:VOTE: Kanye
Done.
@MOD – Please make me a multi-shot Vig. Thank you!"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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Empking wrote:But only one observation of my town play and (as I'm sure you're aware) you can't judge someone being scum just because they're playing in a similar fashion as they did in a scumgame.
Again, because you love to make statements that don’t necessarily apply –
1. Your posting this game does not resemble Jungle Republic Town Empking in several meaningful ways.
2. Your posting this game does resemble [REDACTED] and SOFAI Scum Empking in several meaningful ways.
3. Your ISO lacks any desernable scum-hunting and is loaded, as Wraith said, with excessive fluffy one-liners and ‘Why me’ posts.
These three elements together are sufficent for me to generate a Empking is scum read. All the nitpicking you are doing isn’t affecting any of these three elements."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 582, kanyeknowsbest wrote:kat (feysal) wagon is bs, kanye wagon is bs
Does bs in this case stand for Best Situation? If so I agree. Both your slots need rope."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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Because I don't have magical powers that allow me to vote two players at once. And I'm voting Feysal. Who you happen to be voting right now.
Why do you like asking pointless questions instead of scum-hunting?"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 587, Empking wrote:
It wasn't a pointless question. It ousted your OMGUSy tendancies. After all, I'm not asking for the leading wagon target to die while sitting on a smaller wagon.
How does the first part even make sense? I've yet to call anyone scum this game AFTER they called me such. That's what OGMUS is Empking ... you should know that by now.
Even if what you claimed there is true ... so what? Are you trying to say it is a scum-tell?
Finally please don't make me laugh regarding wagons. I'm voting for scum with 6 votes. Kayne has 7 (although the mod VC said 5 last I looked). You look to be trying to say that I am pushing a wagon with no viablity but that's clearly not the case.
Do you think Feysal is scum? If so why are you trying to say my vote shouldn't be on him? If not why are you voting for him?"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 589, Empking wrote:Why this excuse? You know it now and you still didn't unvote.Seems like you've got a preoccupation for covering your back to me.
HAHAHAHHAHHHAHAHAHAHAH
I actually laughed out loud when I read the bolded Empking.
I could care less about your 'opinion'. I'm done trying to explain obvious things to you and having your continue to make laughable responses.
Go splash in the Kiddie Pool until the adults tell you it is time for a snack ..."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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Ok before I go to bed ready to jet off to the sandy shores of my resort at 6am I think it best I drop some knowledge on the playerbase.
I’ve been contacted with some information by the Powers that Be. At this point I can’t be certain which set is which but I’m strongly leaning in one direction.
Here is the information provided to me by Seraph1.
The Seraphs are Hurin and Morgath as players expect.
They generally operate in the open – all possible QTs created by the Seraphms are viewable by the opposing Seraph.
They have a wide variety of powers. They claim to be able to
1. Neighborize and Deneighborize with them.
2. Activate or deactive ‘Latent abilities’.
3. They also can give out ‘boons’ (not their words). I did not get a full list of boons but Seraph1 did specificy that there were several boons that were definitely scum oriented – Tailor, Ninja and Unprotectible (not able to be Doced). Per Seraph1 some boons will inform the target they have received them and some do not. This may be important later.
4. Finally the Seraphs have the ability to determine they actions of the opposing Seraph.
They also claim to be able to vote. Keep this in mind when placing someone at L-1.
The Seraph mechanics work differently than Vi’s version – they don’t have costs but they take turns taking actions. They trade off on a 36 hour schedule. This may be important for future coordination when deciding to hammer a player on a schedule to rob the Evil Seraph of their next action.
Seraph1 provided this rundown.
Seraph2 basically responded with “The cake is a lie” and said there was no Town reason to provide this information so early. I disagree with that, at least as much as Town knows that Tailor and Ninja powers may be about."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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Oh, one last bit of information for the Playerbase from Seraph1...
Don't claim Town positive boons or activated abilities as they happen. Keep the mystery going.
However if you receive a negative effect or have an activated ability suddenly disappear that was Town positive claim it IMMEDIATELY.
That is all .... MoI Out!"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 620, Empking wrote:Why aren't Andy & Gandalf activated then?
No clue. If I get more info I will give it (whenever I next get internet access)."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 712, Andrius wrote:I'd coordinate a bloc but without Magna here... :/
It seems I have very limited access this week. Don't expect lots of content from me but I can be around to vote in Block form as needed.
Who is in the suggested block again?"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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What exactly happened yesterday after I went on V/LA again? There were two rather viable lynches and suddenly in 5 pages Peregrine gets wagonned and lynched?
PeregrineV - 12 - Dekes, Feysal, Empking, SpyreX, Gut, kanyeknowsbest, Magister Ludi, VitaminR, Furcolow, Andrius, Espeonage, gandalf5166
Every single one of you on this wagon needs to explain in detail why you were voting for him.
In the meantime I'm going to re-read and look back to see who of you was scummiest BEFORE the terribad lynch ...."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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First things first –
Seaph1 is Mina / Faraday. I didn’t get the chance to make that clear due to my V/LA.
Mina and Faraday both have made posts in the QT. On the other hand only AGM has popped in to represent the other side.
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Ok, reading back through my ISO I see the following info –
Gandalf voters based on his ‘claim’ – Empking, Spyrex, Kayne, Furc, LC, Kats / Feysal
That list has scum if Gandalf is Town.
Wraith, Sun and Moon, Chronopie and Dekes all pretty much are content free this game. At this point given I’d wager at least 1 scum is lurking there.
Chrono flipped Town Doctor so the pool is down to 3.
ISO 15 – Empking is scum, Espeonge is scum.
Current people on my “Day 1 Lurker List” who I will vote for as needed are : Dekes, Choronopie, LC, Sun and Moon, mockingjaye, Wraith and maybe Vitamin R.
ISO 26 – Both Kayne and Feysal need rope.
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Now observations from my last content post til the end of Day 1 –
Dekes wrote:Why is this so important to you? You were in the non-readable-yet pool, along with a lot of other people. You have a little too many scum suspects for my taste and you seem to be a bit pushier than usual (and by pushier I mean, you try to push several persons on a certain wagon at times).
It’s important to me because my history with Scum-Dekes tells me he would avoid provoking me. It’s part of getting a read on you.
Dekes wrote:I'll try to get a couple of posts in until then, but no promises.
But this Pere wagon makes me feel good inside. Need to take a look at the voters, but for now I'll join anyway.
Unvote; Vote: PeregrineV
Ok Dekes is scum? Why you ask? Because HE WAS ALREADY VOTING PERE WHEN HE POSTED THIS.
Hard to believe he suddenly was convinced Pere was scum by the Feysal case when he supposedly already had a scum read on Pere and was voting him.
Scumtastic.
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Empking wrote:"I will look at the out-of-ordinary game but ignore the more representitive game we played together in order to call you scum." is not a method.
Lulz. What other more-representative game are you discussing here? If I missed a Town game with Empking in my quick review of my history please indicate what it is.
Empking wrote:I wouldn't be surprised to find out that MOI just made up his post. I know I'm far from calling him confirmed town.
Nevermind, you are still scum. Because this is the most absurd concept ever. Yup, I just made up that post when the Town Seraph could get information to that effect to someone.
What also cements you as scum is the fact that you didn’t make the logical leap that Town would have -- that I could be scum who already is in contact with the scum Seraphs and was trying to pass that off as Town Seraph information.
Don’t worry about it … there are now other players who can confirm that I’m in the QT.
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Wraith wrote:This game has slowed down. Can we get this lynch done please?
Well finding on of the lurker-scum is accomplished. Look at his ISO before this post. He has NO actual scum-hunting content, yet is complaining the game was slowing down.
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Andy wrote:TOWN SERAPH:
Faramina
MORGOTH:
AGM et.al.
Um how exactly did you come by this assessment?
Andy wrote:Actually, I can see that happening. Hadn't thought that he could fake it, but its an interesting insight.
In light of my response to Empking above I’d like your thoughts on why I would do that given the high risk, zero reward nature of that play.
Andy wrote:You
Ludi
Myself
gandalf
mjaye
MoS
Elli
Furco
Pending your responses to the above I find this list very acceptable."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 859, Empking wrote:LynchMePlease's game.
I also wouldn't say there was anything that would make town think scum Seraph's had an ability to make people remember.
I don't remember you there at all. Going to look now.
Also ... nice dodge on responding about your scummy "he made it up" statement. Cudos."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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Gandalf wrote:Do you have a QT with BOTH seraphs? Or just one side?
Both sides have access to the QT, as stated previously.
@Gandalf –when did your role reveal occur?
@Andy– do you have a role now?
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Esponage wrote:Ok so seriously. What was with the turnaround yesterday?
It was scum-driven. How many of your partners were on the wagon?
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WoW wrote:Probably Cult, SK, Mafia, or a 3rd Party due to Plum having to delay the game in order to let Herodotus submit an action.
Um, no. Good moderating is to extend Night for all replacements regardless of role.
Scum-points to you Will for pushing this theory.
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Herodotus wrote:I haven't finished reading, but I can't imagine myself voting for anyone other than VitaminR.
VOTE: VitaminR
Reasons are tech ….
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Wraith wrote:This is who I think the scum are (for the moment). Wait, I'm going to modify this a little
Dekes, Feysal, Empking, SpyreX, Gut, kanyeknowsbest, Magister Ludi, VitaminR, Furcolow, Andrius
Town
Lurkers or Semi-Lurkers
Possible Scum
Obvscum
Idiots
So on a 10 person wagon you think 5 (or 50%) are obv-scum or possible scum?
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Empking wrote:LynchMePlease's game.
I looked at that game. I don’t see significant parallels there to your play here. Not surprising since you are scum.
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Spyrex wrote:However, I, for one, don't feel bad about the events of yesterday
Spy you should be. Are you scum?
Spyrex wrote:MoI makes many dashing good points but none better than:
Why didn’t you vote Dekes then?
I’ll lead the way … subject to change based on Feysal’s claim and whatever that results in from the QT in response.
VOTE: Dekes
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Gut wrote:MAGNA, can you be useful and join the VitRwagon?
Just my mere presence means I’m more useful than your slot ever will be.
I’d ask you for reasons why I should join said wagon … but we both know that would be pointless."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 872, Gut wrote:Pretty sure your "mere presence" discourages posting.
Funny but I believe just the opposite. I think lame All Capsing / Spamming by Katsuki and his ilk does more to discourage posting and gameplay than anything I do."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 877, VitaminR wrote:Do we have to do this again? WHY? You can't read me. I know this, you know this. Stop just thinking I'm scum for no real reason when you know this.
Serious question - is there anyone who can read you? I ask because CES and I are on pretty much opposite spectrums of the Mafiascum rainbow. You gave me very similar reasons in Invictus when I suspected you."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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…Dropping more knowledge now
First let me talk about why I have formed the Town Seraph read on Mina / Faraday and the Scum Seraph read on AGM / Thor.
I got the message from Plum saying “Hey, something happened … come here” with a QT link.
That took me to Quicktopic that is apparently the second iteration. The rules as best I can discern are as follows.
Hurin and Morgoth share a QT. Mina has indicated AGM did a bit of trash talking in the previous edition. Apparently when the first person is Neighborized to the Seraphs and new QT is started. Whenever someone is De-Neighborized (or dies I am assuming) the previus QT is locked and new one is formed.
So back to the topic … as soon as I got there I was greeted by Faraday basically posting a good deal of the info I first shared along with a request to wait form Mina before taking any action or posting in QT (since my identity would be unknown to AGM / Thor at that stage).
AGM then shows up and effectively says “Ignore what you saw … they are trying to trick you … there is no reason to Neighborize this early”. Faraday responded and then Mina dropped a whole bunch more knowledge and theories my way.
BTW – Seraphs can vote, but the votes are more ceremonial and do not count. This was clarified while I was on V/LA
After Mina makes several LONG posts AGM responds with a long post basically saying “There is no Pro-Town reason for you to be hear so early, they are doing it to fool you, we have tons of USEFUL powers”.
Next we fast-forward to when I get back from my blissful vacation.
Mina has questions about why I didn’t immediately give their identity in thread after I dropped the knowledge. We’ve had some back and forth about reads (very minor stuff … I was still getting reconnected after being away for over a week).
–So … why do I think AGM / Thor is Morgoth
Mina and Faraday have been very helpful and Proactive in providing me information. That in itself isn’t an absolute slam-dunk. In fact one of the reasons why it did take me some time to solidify my reads is that I know Faraday has a propensity to buddy me as scum (you do bud ) and Mina hates my guts. So their choice of me wasn’t sure-fire Town.
What sold me was AGM’s play (I only mention him since Thor isn’t in the QT at all). When questioned he has not said anything that Mina / Faraday have said about the mechanics is incorrect. All he’s done is say “Hey, no reason for you to be hear”. So I don't think his "They are trying to fool you" stance makes much sense when they apparently aren't actually lying about anything.
If AGM truly thought Mina and Faraday were trying to decive me about the game he would be pointing out the information they were saying that were lies. The only thing he’s said is a lie is their claim of Town Seraph.
Secondly his constant refrain of “No reason to be here” rings hollow. Mina and Faraday spent a turn action to bring me in. Even if AGM is right that there is no reason early on for me to be there … BAM … there I am free to AGM’s disposal to give out information as necessary. It’s like a free Xmas gift … he has me as a conduit for any information he wanted. And he does NOTHING with it. I’m not asking for reads … hell … he could have me asking questions and pointing stuff out without giving me squat about his and Thor’s abilities if he wanted. That’s why I think his stance isn’t truthful."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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One last tidbit– Mina also indicates at least one other player has access to the QT. Mina has requested they keep themselves hidden in QT / thread since I have already outed myself.
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Ok .. back to current events –
@Andy– Mina wanted to know exactly you thought she / Faraday were Seraph1 when I didn’t give out their names. I’ll wait to see what she says about your answer.
I will say that it troubles me that the slam-dunk for you on it was AGM saying “The cake is a lie”. That’s because he didn’t actually say those words … I used that catch-phrase myself to summarize the “Don’t believe the hype” message he was going on about in a few words when it has been paragraphs.
@Furc– Mina wants to know why you claimed Feysal targeted you before he actually claimed.
Faraday and Mina say Gandalf is a big fat lying scum. Both Seraphs say that neither one activated Gandalf’s role. Faraday states that Seraphs DO NOT get to use actions overnight (and AGM has not disputed this). I did have a question as to whether it might be Bastard Game non-Seraph effected but have no response on that end.
AGM says that awesome is about to happen in the next 12 to 36 hours (whenever he gets control of the next turn cycle).
On a lighter note Faraday has the following information to pass along.
He wanted me to tell Gut and VitaminR he loves Reflexive CPR Doc claims. He also claims to be able to read VitaminR (and everyone else too).
He also wants to tell CES to stop using so many smilies as it is unbecoming of a scummer of his stature.
Ok … back to in thread land."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 920, Gut wrote:In case anyone had doubts, faradays comment about Reflexive CPR Doc's basically confirms that MoI is in communication with the seraphs. MoI can you ask them why they chose you to communicate with?
Well they read the thread so you really already did that. I'll look over the QT to see if anything was said earlier."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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@Feysal – At this juncture you need to claim your full win condition.
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Furc wrote:i have to make sure feysal does something
Dollars to donuts it is “Have Feysal kill Thurin (or whatever the main person’s name is)” if Furc isn’t bullshitting.
Thinking about it a Feysal flip of Mafia not third party means Furc is pulling a weak ‘partner defense’ gambit.
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Esp wrote:MoI, two things. When have you read me as town? And why am I scum?
Filtering out games where I was scum and had no reason to actually try to read you correctly?
Zang’s Mini Normal comes to mind where I eventually twigged to your play as Town. Granted there aren’t that many games because your flicker history didn’t provide me many chances that I remember.
You are scum because you got a scum role PM. Duh.
Ok, in seriousness I see strong parallels between your play here and WRH’s Mini Normal. I’ve said this before. And I properly pegged you as scum there.
This question “Why am I scum” follows along quite nicely with your play there, BTW.
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Gandalf wrote:Keeping an SK on a leash is always a good idea, so long as they stay on the leash.
Actually no. Battle for Olympus should have taught you that. Killing off a proven SK reduces the number of non-Town directed NKs. Yes, I understand the theory that said SK has to shoot scum or they die. Remember .. .more time for Dayplay is better for Town.
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Dekes wrote:Who said anything about "suddenly convinced"? A quick glance through my ISO would tell you a) that I was very likely the first to attack PeregrineV and b) that I was not that into the game due to a busy real life. That vote was simply reaffirming my suspicion and I probably thought that I had unvoted in one of my prod dodging posts.
Yes, you were the first to attack Peregrine. That’s why your post stood out to me in Glowing Neon Letters saying “Scum”! Let’s examine your voting post again …
Dekes wrote:What do you think of Pere, WoW?
So far, you've only attacked his random vote and that's it.
Why would speed wagoning Pere being considered a safe vote and appear less scummy than voting Feysal or Kanye at this point?
So yeah, I really don't wanna replace out of this game. But I'm still busy as hell with looking for an apartment. So instead I'm gonna take a
V/LA through Monday
I'll try to get a couple of posts in until then, but no promises.
But this Pere wagon makes me feel good inside. Need to take a look at the voters, but for now I'll join anyway.
Unvote; Vote: PeregrineV
This is the post in its entirety but what really stood out to me is the bolded.
I see your explanation that you are not really interested in the game and that you thought you had unvoted. I don’t really think so.
The bolded isn’t a person with a strong conviction returning to a strong previous suspect IMO. The phrase “for now” doesn’t ring true in that case. The phrase as a whole reads as “Well, let me slide on the wagon while leaving myself the trapdoor to exit” (via ‘looking at the voters”). Subtle I understand but telling for me.
Dekes wrote:The way you're treating those people who should be on your short scum list differently based on how they view you is disturbing. Especially SpyreX comes here to mind who's way sheepier than I've ever seen him and apart from role playing has been solely reactive the whole game. And he was on both the early gandalf and the final Pere wagon. And yet you're giving him a pass on giving reasons for the Pere vote and can only muster a half-assed dig at him. You need your sheep this game or are you actually trying to read those people, too?
This whole paragraph is an exercise in undermining. Much better than your old reaction to pressure (angry OMGUS … Lost Season 1 vintage) but very reminicient of how you reacted in Battle for Olympus. You don’t outright come out and call me scum but lay the groundwork for later with phrases like “is disturbing” and “You need your sheep” (indicating I’m not really looking for reads).
This paragraph is also at odds with earlier statements from you. Before I had “too many scumreads” for your taste but this seems to indicate I’m not finding enough people properly scummy. Those are on some level contradictory. Either that or I am just finding the wrong people scummy.
Question - where did I EVER say I had a Spyrex Town read?
Dekes wrote: I'll bite on what the Seraphs gaves us
Here’s a question – where did I ever indicate the Seraphs gave me any direct information that Feysal was scum? I simply said they wanted Feysal to claim. I have yet to state if anything he said didn’t pass muster ( I don’t know for certain yet myself).
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WoW Oversoul wrote: Magna, I can't remember if you clarified, but are all people "activated" at once or is it individually?
As I understand they are individually activated (and they apparently can be deactivated).
No comment from this head about the criticism your slot is getting for your scummy "He's scum" start of Day post?"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 920, Gut wrote:In case anyone had doubts, faradays comment about Reflexive CPR Doc's basically confirms that MoI is in communication with the seraphs. MoI can you ask them why they chose you to communicate with?
Summarized short answer -
1. Faraday says I'm painfully Town. Mina think's that's a big overstatement but Faraday charmed her with his natural charisma.
2. Mina knew I had extensive game-play experience with all four Seraphs and thus had a good chance to read them.
3. I'm not a complete moron so they trusted I would give out information in a wise manner. (So much for that, huh LB )"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 944, gandalf5166 wrote:@MoI: By that logic, vigs should never shoot.
Um, no. If you don't understand the difference between Town wincon controlled kills and Non-Town wincon controlled kills then I can't help you."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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Ok .. that was probably a little too snarky. Let me elaborate.
Leashed Serial Killers are never a good idea. Why? They have no long term motivation to actually help Town. Their goal is to survive long enough to achieve their wincondition which does not mesh with Town. So unlike a Town vig they do not have pure motivations. The question becomes … how do you ‘leash’ them. Town’s only threat is basically the promise of a lynch if they do not shoot ‘approved targets’. Since the targets are public the Mafia have full disclosure and can choose to interfere or not (via roleblock / redirect / whatever they have at their disposal). Thus you are certain of having dead Townies when Town directs poorly but no guarantee of dead Mafia when they choose wisely. This situation doesn’t aid Town.
Look at Battle for Olympus as a perfect example. When Gemini was outed as a Serial Killer they promised to shoot as Town directed. What happened instead? We lynched her and halved the number of Non-Town kills. This extended the game allowing Town more time to sort through the jumble of poorly playing Townies (Chesskid / Nacho) and have time to lynch the Hated Townie pre-LYLO.
Without killing Gemini town probably didn’t have time to survive that many mislynches.
The only time you don’t lynch an outed Serial Killer is when you have a guaranteed scum lynch that same day or it is LYLO and lynching a Serial Killer gives scum the win (in which case Town is screwed anyway).
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Furc wrote: I hope Feysal is town
his claim was shitty, though
Ok, I know I am going to kick myself for asking but – WTF? You’ve already said that you KNEW he wasn’t a Town Vig. And then he directly claimed 3rd party. And you say this?
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Ok … if there is any other information out there that would indicate a better target (aka Mafia) for lynch it needs to come out soon. Otherwise I really don’t see letting Feysal live with his claim as it is."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 947, gandalf5166 wrote:That's my point. Feysal looks like he's cooperating with town. We direct him, if he doesn't cooperate then we lynch him. And had you left Gemini alive, she could have killed Nacho for you, lowering the number of days you needed to do the same thing. And yeah, they're likely to only end up killing town, but they're killing town that you were going to lynch anyways.
If we had left Gemini alive we probably would have lynched Town anyway so you were trading a SK life for a Town life. That accelerates the speed by which endgame would be reached. Granted there are MANY variables that make forecasting difficult.
I don't leave claimed Serial Killers alive unless you have a guarenteed scum lynch in their place. If you can provide me with one Gandalf I'm happy to listen. Otherwise we are probably done in this round and round.
BTW - Why did you only remember that little detail after both Seraphs said they didn't activate you?"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 951, VitaminR wrote:Also, I was kinda right with my Kats read.
This reminds me - to those who said "Kats replace-out is a town tell" - I have one thing to say"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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Setting aside question about why you think it is important ... no way to know for certain what Plum is doing this game.
In the previous LOTR large theme she ran (with Andy) each character with a kill had their own unique kill flavor. Not sure what else she has done.
In the end it is Mod Meta you are relying on and not necessarily dependable."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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Ok so Amrun is posting all over the site like it is going out of style.
Meanwhile we get nothing from S&M.
S&M are also lurker scum. Adjust your lynch lists accordingly."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 958, Andrius wrote:But Feysal lynch first?
Once we see that there are no more "Hey, Player Y is scum" posts and Mina / Faraday check in with their thoughts (timing might be an issue .. remember they operate on a 36 flipped cycle) I think we can assemble the block and make Feysal all dead."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 960, Herodotus wrote:Dekes and Wraith look like townies based on their posting prior to the Pere wagon.
Please elaborate ... especially in regards to Dekes."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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Spyrex- Your Quillsman is going to have to work harder to convince me to not lynch Feysal who has claimed a kill-list of likely Town on the off chance he isn't a Full Fledged Serial Killer who tried to grab "Town Vig" cred killing Furc and had it backfire when Furc outed he wasn't Town.
Game-state or no game-state. Sorry ... I'm hardwired to lynch claimed SK roles on site. 4+ years of Mafia gameplay has taught me this."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 969, Herodotus wrote:I disagree. It looks like he just forgot where his vote was, which isn't scummy.
Minor FoS: Spyrex for agreeing. Furcolow and Magna don't get FoS's, but they burned some credibility.
Well I think this may fall in the 'Reasonable men may disagree' category altough I have my doubts about you.
Why would you say I 'burned some crediblity'? You just recently epicly fence-sat on me saying, in effect, "MoI is scum right? Or maybe not. Can't tell". How would I have any significant credibility in your eyes if you had suspicions I was scum.
Does Not Compute."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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