Secret Society Mafia - Game Over

[Ghostlin]

/confirm, although on V-LA till the 28th

[Ghostlin]

Ghostlin's analysis from off V-LA day 1; likely scum suspects (the abridged version):

1) CONspiracy: I've played at least one game with this guy. He's more capable of doing more than agreeing with and just voting the most popular wagon in possibly the most lurky and lazy way possible. "I agree with X about Y's case". Not only is that not scum hunting, that's not even --trying--.

Vote: CONspiracy

2) Maxous: I don't really care what you do and don't like--there's no analysis in your posts. Who do you think is likely to be scummy at this point of the game? Read their iso. A lot of opinions but nothing really related in finding out who is and isn't scum.

3) DX: Town has nothing to lose by voting their suspicions at this point. Any quick hammered wagons would indicate possible scum; there's no reason to NOT vote your FoS on MoI, and you seem to be couching your bets on Baby Spice being scum.

This is the first set of impressions, I have, but there's a number of outlyers here. BS/Yos seems overreactionary town on town being fueled by at least one scum.

[Ghostlin]

1) CONspiracy: I've played at least one game with this guy. He's more capable of doing more than agreeing with and just voting the most popular wagon in possibly the most lurky and lazy way possible. "I agree with X about Y's case". Not only is that not scum hunting, that's not even --trying--.

Vote: CONspiracy

How does the fact that ConSpiracy is in a hydra with Rayfrost (as Global Warming) affect this read?

Then he needs to post in the hydra? I actually have no beef with GW.

Unvote.

Vote: Maxous

I still don't like the lack of real content posting from the person above. And what's a Zang tell?

[Ghostlin]

Edit: Acutally, rereading it, and reading GW in ISO--I thought he had posted more, the read is still valid. I like GW over Max a bit more. Yes, I just got off a plane.

Unvote; Vote: GW

GW has three posts--and the only post that's worth mentioning a vote was the one where he pretty much votes BS.

[Ghostlin]

@Ghostling: Why did you consecutively votehop down your scum-tells? What exactly made your decision change?

VOTE: Babyspice

I agree on the fluffiness and hubbub about spamming note.

You may not like this answer, but it's true. I had only really not had a chance to read the thread in much detail during V-LA; I had waffled due to the hydra thing because I thought GW had posted more than they had--they hadn't. My first vote was justified. (8 hour plane rides do this to you, it's like posting drunk/hungover without ANY of the fun of being drunk or hungover.)

Sorg--so...without the voting impetus on you, do you find Ludi scummy? In English, would you be as concerned and trying to form a case on posting fluff if he hadn't accused you?

OMGUS isn't always a scumtell--but I'm wondering the point of the ISO, particularly since the fact there was 34 whole posts you covered there and I'm wondering why you're not voting for someone more obvious--someone with less than 34 posts that seems more to the point of lurking.

[Ghostlin]

unvote

@Yosarian

, have you read the special rules of the game before the start of day 1?

@Ghostlin

, We are a teaching hydra, but both of us are testing out how we are going to do this. In a few days we should be posting as normal.

Honestly--that's good, but I'm not comfortable with moving my vote yet.

[Ghostlin]

It seems clear that the opposite is true. If we have correct town reads, and can communicate those town reads to the rest of the town, then that should help the secret societies both induct new members who are town and help them pick leadership roles who are town. The town as a whole having good town reads seems especially important in a game like this.

Yet your town-reads were small town-reads. You are, as you seem to be, not sure at all of your town reads. There is just a small gain for town to show those town reads that way. However, if scum manages to bring in wrong town-reads, they can have fellow scummembers pretending to be town. That way they can infest themselves in the "secret societies"
It's odd that you didn't think of this yourself.
---

You may not like this answer, but it's true. I had only really not had a chance to read the thread in much detail during V-LA; I had waffled due to the hydra thing because I thought GW had posted more than they had--they hadn't. My first vote was justified. (8 hour plane rides do this to you, it's like posting drunk/hungover without ANY of the fun of being drunk or hungover.)

Why are you so adamant of your vote being justified?
---
Sorgster's reasoning for ML is bad. Next post we will decide wether to vote for BS or Sorgster, since Yos gave a sort of satisfactory answer.
---
Also, we are miller

- CS

Because your hydra has almost done everything but actively lurk, your BS vote is wagon hopping and now you've claimed Miller roughly 3-5 pages into Day 1 when people started to arouse some suspicion about you.

"Why

shouldn't

I/rest of town be voting for you?" is a much, much better question.

[Ghostlin]

I was asked two different questions, the votehop between GW/Max AND why I was 'worried' about justifying my vote. I'll answer those together.

I came home from V/LA yesterday. I thought there was considerably more content for GW considering they were a hydra (and after travelling about eight hours on a plane, I thought I saw more posts than there actually were). The first votehop was a nod to thinking GW had produced more content than they did (and most hydras in my experience do). The second votehop and the continued sustaining of my vote was due to the fact that GW hasn't produced any content besides reasoning they are a learning hydra.

I'm more afraid of being taken

seriously

than

lynched

, honestly. I don't want a wagon on GW to fizzle out, I want attention to be brought to him, and vote hopping makes that seem less than serious in a semi-altered state (which was tired, not drunk). Frankly, GW wagon is tons better than BS wagon, and any of the three people I mentioned is better than Yos/BS together.

[Ghostlin]

You are reading town to me anyway, but Stefan--given the choice of the players currently in the game, who would you neighborize tonight if given the option?

PV-Yos: Is GW likely to be scum to you, regardless of the miller claim?

[Ghostlin]

Hrm. While it's a lot to sort through and sort of stream of consciousness, this was more of what I've been hoping from GW.

GW: Understanding that your scumlist is from one head of the hydrae, why are you voting Baby Spice (who you mention once) over Dry Fit (who you mention three times.)

Also, you missed one person who's not scumhunting. Let me help you with that.

Unvote.

Vote: DX

[Ghostlin]

KILL IT WITH FIRE!!!!

Your superior argumentation convinced me to vote for someone I do not want to see by tomorrow.

VOTE: MagnaofIllusion

What is this---I don't even---

You're

not even trying

and while I'm not a huge fan of what I've seen about MoI, I'm not sure his play is scummy. What's worse is

you're trying to justify not even trying

.

Yeah, in order right now: the amazing prod dodging DX who can't be arsed to vote, the OMGUS not trying Otolia, and then maybe if we have time we can discuss lynching someone else--BS really is not the lynch today.

[Ghostlin]

MoI's right. Plus the continued explanation of not wanting to play this game by not playing it and the fact he's...not really given any scum reads makes me less than comfortable. I'm willing to put the DX wagon in abeyance to lynch someone equally horrible.

Unvote.
Vote: Otolia

[Ghostlin]

Muffin's so obvscum that he's using Sisko when there are so many Picard face palms out there.

The reason I voted for Otolia is that his entire play this game was scummy and the mindnumblingly dumb apex was when he OMGUSed MoI, who is obvtown. Really, I'm not buying the too dumb to be scum, because half of the time, they really are that bad.

Although EC just pinged my scumdar for voting Iceguy causing that wagon to create too many votes. DavidX is still so obv lurkerscumdodgeprod scum it hurts.

Sorgs #299 is an excellent point. Sage seems protown to me right now.

Wishing you the best of luck, ML.

[Ghostlin]

EBWOP: I don't think this needs this, but the first part of #316 is a joke.

[Ghostlin]

We all know that voting is against DX's religion, but BS--why aren't you voting at this time?

Surely, surely

you have another scum read 14 pages (11 pages in) of useful content.

Even

for that 'meh, possible scum' reason alone, I'm happy to see the BS wagon fizzle. I'm meh about the IceGuy wagon. Really, really meh. His analyses seem genuine and really, the back and forth of him and Maxmous seems like a cat and mouse game with no effort. I'd take him instead of no lynch, and be happy if he was scum---but I'd rather not have to sit on a null-tell today, thanks. Also, I've played a game where he was scum. He didn't put in this much effort. (Auction Mafia, a Magua game. I was scum too, but not the same team.)

Jack is getting fishy. Players that are entirely made out of rhetoric (I hate #334, by the way) and provide little reasoning on their own are quite possibly scum in my eyes or are otherwise missing the point.

StefanB seems similar from the newbie game I've played with him and he was Town--I acutally Doc protected him the first day. The only thing is his activity seems a little down.

Scum to me right now is Otalia, DX (I've beaten my reasoning in with a hammer), EC (yeah, obv wagon jumping is obv) and Max (...has anyone noticed that the majority of Max's posts are defensive and not really that offensive? Err...I mean, on the offensive against scum, not acutally offensive.)

[Ghostlin]

EBWOP: Also, Jack's pinging my possible scumdar in new and exciting ways.

[Ghostlin]

I'm giving up on trying to argue with you idiots - you can safely continue your "IceGuy is scum because IceGuy is scum" circlejerk.

Here are my reads (town = +5, neutral = 0, scum = -5):

MoI, +3: Seems to be playing his town game here, but the Otolia "kill it with fire!!!" case smells fishy.
Baby Spice, +2: Started off rather scummy but now gives off town vibes. Willing to give benefit of the doubt.
PeregrineV, -2: Limited activity and content.
EtherealCookie, -4: Almost no content, wagon-jumping.
whispersilk: No read.
Otolia, 0: Has showed behavior which was scummy, but his response to the MoI case seems more annoyed town.
BBMolla, -4: Same as EtherealCookie.
TheJackalope, 0: At least some scumhunting, but also little real content and wagon-jumping.
Oversoul, +4: Genuine, but too little posting for a solid town read.
Wraith: No read.
Ghostlin, +3: Strange behavior in the beginning (voting ConS->Maxous->GW in the span of several posts) but otherwise genuine.
sageamagoo, 0: DY has a good point. Does give off some town vibes though.
Dry-Fit, -2: Same as PeregrineV.
Bogre, -4: Same as EtherealCookie.
Global Warming, 0: Don't like wagon-jumping and late miller claim. Rest seems genuine though.
Alabaska J: No read.
sorgster, +4: I doubt scum would put as much work into the Magister Ludi case as he did.
Yosarian2, +5: Genuine.
Magister Ludi, +1: Does give off town vibes but I find him hard to read. Meta tells don't seem to work.
David Xanatos, -2: Same as PeregrineV.
Maxous, -2: Posts enough but says little. Don't like wagon-jumping and zMuffinMan defense.

DarthYoshi, +5: Genuine and I mostly agree with him.

StefanB, -5: For reasons already stated approximately a million times.
zMuffinMan, -1: Early behavior town, don't like his StefanB defense and the Maxous/zMuffinMan connection.

DarthYoshi is totally on the same team as Iceguy.

I don't get the town vibes you seem to be getting, Ice. Certainly not enough to give him a full +5. Somehow, this list also seems to differ a little from what I think Ice would actually think. It seems he wants to make reads that fit other's ideas instead of using his own.

This presumes that IG, as a scum player, would be buddying DY. Often with scum, that's not the case.

Why do you think DY is scum?

[Ghostlin]

I'm giving up on trying to argue with you idiots - you can safely continue your "IceGuy is scum because IceGuy is scum" circlejerk.

*phew*

I wouldn't have wanted to do it without your permission.

His analyses seem genuine

How? Most of his reads are utter crap and there's virtually zero effort behind them. Here I'll break down his ranking system:

"People who haven't posted much are scum, people who think I'm scum are scummy, people who post lots are town, people who post big chunks of 'content' are town"

That's the laziest system of scum hunting I've ever seen. Those aren't "genuine" reads.

Max (...has anyone noticed that the majority of Max's posts are defensive and not really that offensive? Err...I mean, on the offensive against scum, not acutally offensive.)

No? I haven't really seen him post much that I'd call "defensive". He looks town so far.

"Defensive" is the wrong word of Max. More of a passive/aggressive way of scum hunting. Maybe this is how he plays, but something seems wrong. He's not very hard about anything.

Compared to the last time I played a game with IG where he was scum, that's

effort

. That post is more opinions and content he posted in the other game we played together. Does that mean I'm convinced of his towniness? No, he could of simply gotten better at the game (for a given amount of better), but it's enough deviation to place him in the null category for me. I'd rather hang Otolia or DX.

[Ghostlin]

That is efford for Iceguy, Ghostlin? Not so good. Found the game, reading ISOs there now.
Bogre: Why bring Lovecraft in this? And has any mod ever made a GreatOldOne in a role?
Sorry short post today, more I hope tomorrow.
Can't say if I will post on Wednesday, because I have little time that day.

Preview: Were have I backpackelt? IceGuy is corherent? Most of his case Has been disproven. Nothink to talk about other players?
Wow interesting post from IceGuy, but sorry not today.

I'm pretty much saying there's scummier reads than what I'm getting from IG. I may be stunned and BS and IG may be the ultimate scum team pair that stuns us all in the end and you can all curse my name for listening to me as town loses....

...but I'd rather spend my time with scum like Otalia, EC, and DX. At least on Day 1.

Jak: EC is scum. That's really not much of a revelation. But you're hedging your bets with the more attractive (read: bigger) wagon on #361.

[Ghostlin]

I'm giving up on trying to argue with you idiots - you can safely continue your "IceGuy is scum because IceGuy is scum" circlejerk.

Here are my reads (town = +5, neutral = 0, scum = -5):

MoI, +3: Seems to be playing his town game here, but the Otolia "kill it with fire!!!" case smells fishy.
Baby Spice, +2: Started off rather scummy but now gives off town vibes. Willing to give benefit of the doubt.
PeregrineV, -2: Limited activity and content.
EtherealCookie, -4: Almost no content, wagon-jumping.
whispersilk: No read.
Otolia, 0: Has showed behavior which was scummy, but his response to the MoI case seems more annoyed town.
BBMolla, -4: Same as EtherealCookie.
TheJackalope, 0: At least some scumhunting, but also little real content and wagon-jumping.
Oversoul, +4: Genuine, but too little posting for a solid town read.
Wraith: No read.
Ghostlin, +3: Strange behavior in the beginning (voting ConS->Maxous->GW in the span of several posts) but otherwise genuine.
sageamagoo, 0: DY has a good point. Does give off some town vibes though.
Dry-Fit, -2: Same as PeregrineV.
Bogre, -4: Same as EtherealCookie.
Global Warming, 0: Don't like wagon-jumping and late miller claim. Rest seems genuine though.
Alabaska J: No read.
sorgster, +4: I doubt scum would put as much work into the Magister Ludi case as he did.
Yosarian2, +5: Genuine.
Magister Ludi, +1: Does give off town vibes but I find him hard to read. Meta tells don't seem to work.
David Xanatos, -2: Same as PeregrineV.
Maxous, -2: Posts enough but says little. Don't like wagon-jumping and zMuffinMan defense.

DarthYoshi, +5: Genuine and I mostly agree with him.

StefanB, -5: For reasons already stated approximately a million times.
zMuffinMan, -1: Early behavior town, don't like his StefanB defense and the Maxous/zMuffinMan connection.

DarthYoshi is totally on the same team as Iceguy.

I don't get the town vibes you seem to be getting, Ice. Certainly not enough to give him a full +5. Somehow, this list also seems to differ a little from what I think Ice would actually think. It seems he wants to make reads that fit other's ideas instead of using his own.

This presumes that IG, as a scum player, would be buddying DY. Often with scum, that's not the case.

Why do you think DY is scum?

Blatant prod dodge. RL got away from me the last couple of days, and I should have some time tomorrow and Wednesday to catch up. But after just skimming what I've missed, I want to point out what Ghosty is saying here. Scum aren't dense enough to create that kind of a trail to buddies. So the argument sageamagoo, is that if IceGuy is scum (which you certainly think he is--your vote is on him, anyways), then I am actually much more likely to be town.

So the question then becomes, is this post coming from frustrated town or scum trying to discredit their attacker? Given the weak foundation of attacking me based on an IceGuy association (as well as my general belief that players who try to hunt in scumteams before flips are more likely to be scum themselves), I'd say it's the latter.

Ghosty, why didn't you vote sageamagoo after this post?

I'll have more to say after I'm done catching up.

Short reply:

1) I want to hear his justification for his assuming you're scum. Frankly, I'm getting tenative threads and I'm not liking it. In other words, a lot of scum by association and not a lot of scum.
2) So far....Otolia>DX>....sage, in my book right now. I still think Otolia's done more scummy things, although sage is getting bumped up.
3) A single vote on sage will not move today along. Pressuring wagons will move today along. If you can interpret what I've said above about scum not buddying each other (which you did, 100% correct) then the rest of town either thinks there are more important wagons or didn't catch it.

[Ghostlin]

Top four scum, in order: Otolia, DX, EC, Jack, to be clear. Sage would be one of the alternates to that list at this moment, but he could impress me.

[Ghostlin]

Sage: If you lament about being a target for Day or Night actions, you really, really should answer my question. And Maxous's too.

As for Whisper, I'll just say this. I tend to not write blank checks. Many other people do not write blank checks on behavior they may find suspicious, scummy, what have you. Do not be surprised when you ask for a blank check for certain modes of behavior if we do not grant you one.

[Ghostlin]

The frustratedpart comes from scum thinking you're scum. And now I may be a target in days to come (night or day), although I really should't be.

Scum don't think you're scum. They know who scum are.

Being worried about being a target shows an intense survival instinct. This is more likely due to come from scum, who's primary goal it is to survive. Townies, on the other hand, are more interested in lynching others than being shot, or being lynched themselves.

Whispersilk brings a good point up about sorgster: he voted Ludi for fluff, but essentially hadn't anything else himself?

UNVOTE: VOTE: SAGEAMAGOO

This is probably the most intelligent post you've posted all game--although I was surprised to see you were still part of the game, Bogre.

Regardless, Sage, I'm not going to continue to prod for a response when you continue to dodge my question.

Unvote.

Vote: Sage

For the following reasons:
1) You associate two people: IceGuy and DarthYoshi as scum together without having an individual reason for both. When asked WHY DY was scum, you've continually refused to answer. I'm forced to assume that you wish to set up two people as scum together for mislynch reasons. Day 1 is too early for associative scumtells and as I've pointed out, scum usually don't (but sometimes rarely do) buddy other scum.
2) You've not answered mine or Maxous question. Either you're not paying attention to the game or you're ignoring us. Not very protown.
3) I hate the post where you say you'll be a target of votes or night actions. Good town members learn not to care about it; mostly because scum will probably kill the most protown players as the game wears on and scumhunting contributions are much more important than any PR you might have (yes, even sane Cop).
4) Dislike #381. DarthYoshi's #318 and 376 are not congitive dissonance, but you present them that way.

[Ghostlin]

EBWOP: As for the remaining wagons; I'm OK with Otalia, think you're barking up the wrong tree with IceGuy but would be willing to lynch him closer to deadline.

I was never fond of and am currently against the BabySpice wagon. Personally, I'd like to see wagons on Jak, EC, and DX but I've been wishing for that since the beginning of Day 1.

[Ghostlin]

EBWOP x2: By the way, MoI, Sage is the new IG and Otolia. Join this wagon, I don't think you'll be that disappointed.

[Ghostlin]

Current Scum/Town List:

DIAF, please (in order to worst to..not so worst):

DX (no scum hunting), EC (Wagon jumper, little/no scumhunting), Jak (see EC), Sage (survival complex, pairing people without scumtells Day 1, avoiding direct questions), Otolia (for the same reasons I've voted for him before, but he's improved, at least.)

Probably should dance the hemp fandago (null to scum, in no particular order):

PV (lurking), Bogre (I didn't know he was playing this game until #426), whisper (wants us to write a blank check for possible scummy behavior), sorgster (this one is hard to nail down. he seems really, really putitng on the idea of trying, but then...the scum comes back), Max (similar reasons, but we're on th same wavelegth about Sage, at least)

Meh:

Most of this game is in this catergory. A lot of reads I got good pings on, or bad pings that got better.

We're Not Lynching Today. Don't Ask. (Town):

MoI, DarthYoshi, Yos2.

[Ghostlin]

I'm skimming most of these walls.

@Ghostlin,

I don't get the maxous suspicion. He looks town. I'm following his thought processes and agree with pretty much everything he's written so far.

What do you think of Alabaska? I think he's scum, his posts are like "lol I'm coasting *COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAST*" and the whole "lol I totally agree IceGuy is scum" without voting IceGuy is weird.

Also I know you said not to ask, but why is Yoshi town? I think he's scum, nothing he's done has looked town, I don't understand the town read that you (and some others) have on him.

@IceGuy,

This will be like the tenth time you've been asked, so I'm beginning to think it's pointless repeating this, but why did you suggest that my vote on you was opportunistic and where's my ISO analysis like the ones you did in #357 for the other "opportunistic" voters?

Also don't really get the whole "circlejerk" thing since that's like 1 or 2 players on your wagon and has nothing to do with why I personally think you're scummy.

1) The Maxous suspicion is based almost entirely on gut. It's nagging. Something about his play style, particularly early play has bothered me. Most town is...more fervent in their suspicions---plus he defends David in the early game for casting an FoS instead of a vote. The two are not the same, there is one that town does to confirm suspicion, and there's one that scum does to hedge their bets.

(I'm not saying all FoSes like this, but if you FoS in lieu of casting a vote Day 1, you're being overtly cautious. There's no reason for doing this, and there's less reason for defending such behavior.)

2) Alabaska hasn't posted hardly anything since left V/LA and it wouldn't surprise me if he was scum, the reason that he's null is he's bothering to be responsive at this point, which a number of players AREN'T. If we were to hard line Lynch all Lurkers, it'd be Day 5 or 6 and half the playlist would be dead. Would I oppose an Alabaska lynch? Nope.

3) Read DarthYoshi's ISO again. No, really read it this time. I'll wait.


Done? Still think he's scum? Let me show you what you've missed. There's a few threads that his posts have in common:

1) He calls a lot of people on their crap throughout this game. You may think it's excessive questioning, but I find it keeping certain members of town (myself included, he called me out too) honest. Frankly, considering I just voted someone not having enough apparent honesty to actually answer my question and for a really lame associative tell, this is a big one.

Scum --usually-- don't bother, and if they do, it's usually the good ones. You have a null-townish read for a similar reason, Muffin.

2) He's been mostly active. In this game, that's a freaking big one. Not that I'm giving away free prizes for activity, but a lot of scum who see a lurky game do hide in there.

3) No one's really bothered to put a case up against him that countermands either 1 or 2. Everyone says he's done nothing town (just like you did), but no one's bothered to present a case either. All we've had an attempt on was sage's lame attempt at a weak associative scum tell.

[Ghostlin]

Also all of yosarian's recent posts have been IIoA. I don't understand the town read on him either, actually.

1) His Baby Spice case, no matter how probably ill aimed, was well thought out and has good intent behind it. Yes, he does a PBP, which is not always seen townie, but I've never understood the reason. Scum when they put on a scum hunting face

don't

usually PBPA, they go as shallowly as they can for town reads. I've stopped posting PBPA's personally because of people getting bogus information off of it. (ie, it's a tool to let you see what I see, but it rarely works that way).

2) He actually bothers to prod the most interesting claim of the game, GW's Miller claim. Instead of going 'GW's town, GW's scum', he goes through the motivations of why GW --could-- be both with that claim. I'm going to get slightly off topic here and in my first game I replaced in as a newbie (1042), Nacho, who had thoroughly trounced me told me I had mastered the art of asking myself questions (and yes, that's how he worded it) but hadn't delved into motivations. What motivations exist in a post? He acutally took a claim and analyzed both town and scum motivations to it--a Miller claim, which usually at the beginning of the game gets 'oh, you're obvtown', and 'pffft...you've been acting scum, DIAF'.

3) This probing found in #2 is in a lot of his early posts. I don't see scum doing this--not to say that they can't, but scum would have to actively avoid falling into the trap that usually avails scum here--which is trying just hard enough to look town enough to not to get lynched. (Yes, I fall into this mentality sometimes).

4) I like #389.

I agree with #389

. If town saw Day 1's lynch in advantage of 'what do I gain later?', more reasoning like #389 would be used. Yes, you hit lurkers at least 50% of the time, but unless a god role is in play, you've really only lost a townie that doesn't contribute and won't particularly contribute to Lylo. This is also the reason why everyone who's ridden whisper gets a gold star for today.

5) He's keeping whispersilk honest. And posting. Seeming that she wants to lurk, not permitting her to do this is a good thing.

[Ghostlin]

As much as it pains me to say this about two of these, the wagons with 2 or less votes need to dissolve. Unless those players act more scummy, and in DX's case that would be hard, they're not the lynch for today.

[Ghostlin]

Yes, because family issues are scummy. Mhmm. Shove it up your arse Ghostlin.

That'd be fine if you were posting anything of note before the family issues. I get V\LA, it's not why I think you're scummy.

[Ghostlin]

The following wagons need to dissolve:

StefanB (2): IceGuy, Otolia
MagnaofIllusion (1): Magister Ludi
sorgster (1): whispersilk

+the BS wagon if it's not going to get more votes. We're at

least

1 vote down today due to DX's V/LA.

I will move my vote to IceGuy Sunday night if no one else has more votes than him.

[Ghostlin]

So many jokes have went over people's head in this game...
It is ironically funny.

Can IceGuy just claim now?
It's a waste of time to put him at L-1 first.
He is clearly the intended lynch.

Um...going to say 'no' here. First off, there's a segment of the town that still doesn't agree with you, remarkably, that IG is scum.

Two, we have the entire weekend, and I don't see what a premature claim would do at this point, particularly if we go in a different direction.

Three, it's never a waste of time to put someone at L-1 before you ask for a claim unless you're less than say, 12-24 from the deadline. This post reads like 'can we lynch IG so we can get the pretentsion of claiming over with so we can quicklynch him anyway?'

[Ghostlin]

Actually, keep your vote on sage. Alabaska/sage as competing wagons would be cool. Make it happen.

I'm remarkably ok with this idea. Everyone, either vote sage or Alabaska, particularly if you're on a subpar lynch (like Baby Spice).

[Ghostlin]

To continue with MoI's way of thinking, the following players are ok for any Vig shots or SKs trying to look town in addition as well: Etherial Cookie, BBMolla, Jak. These players all are fairly scummy or at the least looking while attempting to look busy.

[Ghostlin]

As for the disagreement about the case of DY that MoI pointed out--I acutally think Z's town because of it. It's not a huge case,

but frankly it answers the question I asked of another player roughly 50 posts ago

; and does so in a way I can see kinda where he's coming from, but I still like 376. Z's approaching it from a different angle. Agree with Alabaska wagon competing with sage wagon. Alabaska would be a good vig tonight as well, along with PV (I'm sorry to say that about someone who's so obviously sheeping my reads. ).

I have too many nulls where the player on the other end is obvnottrying.

MoI: should something happen to you tonight and killers don't choose to divest us of of some lurkers, who are your town and scum reads?

[Ghostlin]

I am claiming the EC kill. I had a one shot Vig kill and I used it last night thinking that EC would never see the noose.

DX, do you have a doublevote, and if so,

why the hell are you lurking?

I'm not talking the end of Day 1, but the beginning of Day 1 before you went on V/LA. You had muitiple opportunites to vote and you didn't.

Jak seems likely scum, particularly with his EC/IG in #361. Knowing what we know now, the associative tells with no reasoning was to set up lynches primarly.

Vote: Jak

All three of BBmolla, Jak and DX are pinging my scumdar. They're all excellent choices.

[Ghostlin]

Ghostlin, if you vigged EC then why wasn't there a second scumkill?

That I don't know. My best guess would be that someone --was-- protected last night by MoI. I'm claiming EC, tho', and I don't see (yes, WIFOM, I know) the possible scum motivation of someone scummy killing him, even if that gets me lynched.

[Ghostlin]

Specifically, the post where he said "Out of EC and IceGuy, one is scum, but not both." Both flipped town, which is why the EC nightkill smelled like framing to me. Now that Ghostlin claimed it as a vigkill I'm not so sure. Still I'd rather lynch BBmolla than Jakalope at this point.

Which is why I'm suspicious of Jak. Really, the tossup last night was pulling the trigger on DX (I acutally wanted to see if he's contribute more on Day 2 which is why I didn't), and pulling the trigger on Jak (who I thought a wagon was possible on).

When I play protown killing roles, I am more likely to pull the trigger on a player I think is scummy but not as likely to get lynched (most likely due to lurking reasons).

All of Jak's reads have been like this; one of this person and this person is scum. It's not really scumhunting.

[Ghostlin]

umm,
there is a scum motovation to kill somebody scummy in a 2 scum faction game.

I don't think (again, WIFOM) every scum team spends time killing other scum in a 2 party scum game, otherwise MoI wouldn't have died. He was pretty obv town at the end of Day 1. That said, I don't have any explanation again of why only two people died yesterday.

[Ghostlin]

Ghostlin's pet theories of the day:

1) Looking through the vote counts, 1 person has been on every wagon yesterday that got enough votes to be lynchable (the leading wagon). (From 1.4 to 1.13). That person is Stefan B, and earns him a place on the scum tier, but I do want to pursue Jak, which is why I've not voted him yet.

2) If DX is not a doublevoter, there's another person likely to be a DV. That person is not necessarly scum (I need to read that person's ISO to make sure).

[Ghostlin]

Just a little preface to my reads throughout this game. I give a group of people and a percentage of either town or scum.

My first one.

Between Magister, Magna, and David X, 1 is anti-town.

Well DY, The way these 3 interacted earlier, there is little chance that they are all town. The reason I don't put a vote out is because if I am right, but I guess the first 2 people that aren't scum, we'd have lynched 2 Town. I need to be a lot more confident then "He's got a 33% chance at being scum!" to put down a vote.

I feel at least one or two of the votes on me are antitown..

In particular EtheralCookie's vote seemed especially opportunistic. Looking at his ISO shows that he has a grand total of 4 posts.

1 to confirm.
1 to RVS
And 2 to sheep what other people said about me before him.

VOTE: EtherealCookie

It's time for your favorite type of read guys.

EtherealCookie, Iceguy, one is scum. Not both.

GW: A sampling of his ISO. You judge.

[Ghostlin]

Ah, new day. I totally have to re-read this game ASAP, I've totally lost track of what's going on here.

Yos scumtell: Yos has in the past indicated that if someone says 'these two are not both town' then they're likely scum. Surely the same thing applies to saying there's one scum in three people?

I know the MD post you're talking about, but when in this game did I say "there's one scum in three people"? There were multiple people I was calling town early on, and then I attacked BS.

(By the way, the thing that actually bugs me is when person A is attacking person B, and some random guy says "Ok, they're probably bussing scum". That kind of leap seems scummy to me, like you're trying to chain mislynches. If a person actually has a logic reason for thinking there are X scum in group Y, that's a different kettle of fish.)

Rereading that post, Yos, I think what Fonz is saying is you had a scumtell that indicates that if someone goes X of Y, Z, and U are scum that person is likely scum.

I think he's referring to Jak's 71 for comparsion to the scumtell.

[Ghostlin]

Still suspicious of sorgster too now that he mentions it. His ISO isn't full of cases, explanations and reasoning. Dry-fit's still a solid meh.

Muffin's still the same place he was yesterday, still town. I don't think DX ninja double voted now that it's mentioned, but I'd like him to explain if he did and if he can. I have two theories on this:

1) Someone has a unique PR that makes any townie Hated--which means one vote less for lynch. If so, they're probably restricted on usage.
2) Someone did double vote and has a double voting power that was on the IG wagon last night.

There is at least one scum on the IG wagon last night, and possibly more, that's almost for certain.

[Ghostlin]

Otalia: Why gives Ghostlins vigclaim him a freeby until night 2? Some people can't act on night 2. (Most of town can't)

I think what Otalia's saying is that investigative roles are much more likely to use their powers on me tonight (Track me, Cop me, etc), now that I've claimed the Vig. If I'm found somewhere where someone dies or have a guilty, they'll claim and that'll be all she wrote.

Agree with Wraith about DX; when he's here (not on V/LA, which I get, considering I spent most of the beginning of this game on it) it's like he can't be bothered to provide content, and didn't even really vote until it was raging obvious our deadline was coming. He even had a FoS down and no vote at one point. There's no reason to not vote Day 1. #563 AND #566 continues the trend of rather...lazy coasting. He's also not answered my question.

Wondering, bluntly, what Max is getting at with the 'who had an MoI suspicion.' I think MoI was killed for obvious reasons. He was protown, and frankly, the wolves and mafia don't win faster against Town by killing each other. There wasn't really even a single lynch wagon of the day for MoI; and I think he came out Day 1 the strongest.

I'm wondering if Sorg has read Day 2; of if this is blatant misdirection off of someone else, because #557 is bad. I won't say I don't suspect Otolia now, but #540 is the best post I've read from him a while.

Whispersilk also surprised me with her post, considering we did a lot of fighting about her wanting to lurk Day 1.

Toasty and the Fonz are actually filling slots that were dead to town.

I don't like Max much--something about his hanging onto the kills last night, but I've not liked Max much all game, honestly.

Where

IS

Baby Spice? The beginning of this game was the Baby Spice and Yos show, and at least Yos has re-materialized to say he's doing a read through of the game.

Muffin's still reading town to me. So's DY. I don't agree with Muffin's ideas 100%: I think sorg's being pretty blatantly anti-town.

Today's lynchables out of the six wagons we have today are: DX, Jak, Sorg. I'm a little weaker on the DX lynch now mostly because I still don't have warm fuzzies about Max--call it gut--and PV's not been the most protown player this game, he's been a null for me for most of it due to activity level and content.

Meh: BBMolla (I keep going back and forth on this read. He has, on occasion posted content, but active lurking for six days is pretty horribad.), Otolia (seems to have improved from Day 1, plus I don't like who's riding him), and Dry-Fit (meh read in general).

[Ghostlin]

EBWOP: Wraith's getting bumped into the town tier mostly because the work he's done Day 2.

[Ghostlin]

Wraith:

Yes, but I've been following MoI with amusement. Self-Voting isn't a scumtell. Not even in RVS, given it was a joke-vote, and was blatantly so. That seemed to me to simply be an attempt to start a bandwagon from nothing, which fell flat on it's face.

FoS MoI

UNVOTE:

Not sure of BabySpice. Bad reactions, but people seem a little too happy to sheep, and admit same. Pondering.

I have a little experience with Ludi, or at least his hydra. He posted a lot of walls then..

1: When it's the fourth post of RVS, yes, yes it is. RVS is when things are unstable, and Scum can't find a path to go down. It's in their interests to end it early.
2: Because I'm considering various things. There's no sense putting a vote down when I'm looking at a few options, as I'm moderately likely to move it no matter where it was placed.

Right now, outside of Baby Spice, MoI is my main consideration. There are a few small matters I'm looking into with others first though.

Yes. Because not putting down an instant vote when I'm in the middle of considering other things is bad. Mhmm. That doesn't follow any logical path.

"You're not instantly putting down a vote so you must be avoiding it!"

As opposed to the more logical "You've said you're looking at other things, so maybe you're reviewing other things."

Forgot about this game. Reading over the new stuff, have some time tonight anyway so will post thoughts later.

This is his first half of the game. Here are the things that bug me:

1) He has an MoI suspicion. He had a BS suspicion.

He's not voting either.

His reasoning is

he doesn't want to move his vote around.

In my experience the beginning of Day 1 is essentally that. It's a rare player that is going to come out of the gate, vote his primary suspicion and leave it there the entirety of Day 1.
2) On the piggy back of 1), there's a fair amount of cognitive dissonance

casting an RVS vote you'll have to turn around and unvote anyway

. I don't believe David was going to ride himself to lynch, and nothing would of have been lost by casting a vote on a scum suspect to get conversation going.
3) This is essence gives town no reads going on to the latter half of Day 1, and if he was serious about hunting...well, I like to know where I was going with a suspicion, don't you?
4) He continues to 'research' for about two posts.
5) BS was the lynch at that point, so having her as primary suspicion and not voting her leaves his vote open to continue the wagon. It also leaves him a chance to distance if she's a scum buddy.

David goes on V/LA after these posts, which I get. None of the above directly have anything to do with V/LA.

I'm still reading, but I'm willing to hammer if/when the rest of the Town wants me to, so that my vote is actually useful. From what I've read so far,

Iceguy is about 2nd on my list.

My point stands regardless, I'm willing to direct my vote where Town wants it.

@MOD: May I set up a temporary proxy for today, and give a player my vote? Effectively turn them into a double-voter for the day?

End of Day 1:
1) A few things wrong with #509: David is reading, and not near the end yet, but his #2 scum read is town's #1 scum read. What's his #1 scum read? *shrug*
2) We never find out what David's reads are beyond that he apparently didn't like Iceguy. Why didn't he apparently like Iceguy? I don't know, he didn't actually post that.
3) I'll begrudgingly give him town points for being willing to direct his vote wherever town wants it. Thing is, with IG dead, we have no clue who else David wants for scum. At all. I can't really assume he wants BS from the above anymore, since that was #160, and now I'm analyzing #512.
4) The fact IG was lynched after his vote is a null for me. I don't like the fact that David hasn't been bothered to say 'no' to the question of, 'Are you a double voter, David?' If he knew he was a DV and killed IG knowing this, then I even like him less. I ask him this bluntly in #534.

Day 2:

Starting a bandwagon is a towntell, starting a bandwagon in the 4th or 5th post in the game is what I see Scum doing purely to avoid the uncomfortable period of RVS where they're trying not to look dodgy.

Thanks for the update, David.

I was asked a question. *shrug*

1) See point 4 for my possible complaint about #563 and #566.
2) Again, no reads. Even some of the most lax posters in town have given reads up to this point.

[Ghostlin]

Max: Hm, still don't get it. DX could have even as doublevotter votehopped like crazy (aka like me normally) on day 1, wouldn't have made a difference, wouldn't have shown, as long as the wagon doesn't go to L-1. I think the doublevoter was more likly to join the waggon on any other position.
Sorry I may miss somethink here, but I still don't see anythink that makes DX confirmed or even likly doublevoter.

I'm not calling DX a doublevoter. I'm calling him scum.

@Ghostlin: Scum usually make night kills for particular reasons.

Read above as to why him being/not being a DV either way bugs the piss out of me.

Max: At some point, unless you ARE scum, this goes down the slippery slope of WIFOM. Also, I've not had much success personally analyzing Night 1's kill Day 2 in any game.

[Ghostlin]

Meh. You obviously haven't been around me often Ghostlin. Calling me out for semi-lurking is basically calling me out for not having gotten in a raging argument

yet

. That's generally what gets me in.

With apologies to V for Vendetta, 'I scumhunt you for what you've done, not for what you intend to do.'

[Ghostlin]

I'm meh about how the Fonz --ended-- his wall. Where he was going with the ongoing analysis seemed better than the payoff at the end--it seemed weak, particularly since it didn't include any thoughts about how the lynch at the end of Day 1 ended.

I'm glad someone claimed the DV. I'm happier that it was at least a player I could say is currently a null, although I'm not sure the DV was employed a protown way when Sage had it. Sage+The Fonz+592=null for me now.

Fonz, is there anything about Dry-Fit that leaps out to you as particularly scummy?

[Ghostlin]

You are doing the same thing as my president, pointing fingers at everyone, provoking anyone that could hinder you and try to control the flow. I am wary of puppet masters ...

Provoking anyone who could hinder me? I call bullshit on that.

I’m making the best of my limited time here in the game (and it is going to be limited, that I have no doubts of) to hunt scum and make my suspicions known. Your dislike of that really doesn’t concern me.

I don't like the way you keep saying you will die soon. If you are really town, it shouldn't matters to you - unless

you are a PR

and you feel the pressure of getting results rather sooner than later. Furthermore it allows scums (and werewolves) to play on that. Letting you live can be a good way to mess up with the remaining town mind. And if you happens to be scum and rides your self-created towncred until the last stages of the game, I hope someone will have the courage to question your alignment.

Rolefishing and moi was killed night one. MoI was also the main attacked on you.

The first is somewhat valid with reasoning. The second one is horribly WIFOM.

[Ghostlin]

You are doing the same thing as my president, pointing fingers at everyone, provoking anyone that could hinder you and try to control the flow. I am wary of puppet masters ...

Provoking anyone who could hinder me? I call bullshit on that.

I’m making the best of my limited time here in the game (and it is going to be limited, that I have no doubts of) to hunt scum and make my suspicions known. Your dislike of that really doesn’t concern me.

I don't like the way you keep saying you will die soon. If you are really town, it shouldn't matters to you - unless

you are a PR

and you feel the pressure of getting results rather sooner than later. Furthermore it allows scums (and werewolves) to play on that. Letting you live can be a good way to mess up with the remaining town mind. And if you happens to be scum and rides your self-created towncred until the last stages of the game, I hope someone will have the courage to question your alignment.

Rolefishing and moi was killed night one. MoI was also the main attacked on you.

You are doing the same thing as my president, pointing fingers at everyone, provoking anyone that could hinder you and try to control the flow. I am wary of puppet masters ...

Provoking anyone who could hinder me? I call bullshit on that.

I’m making the best of my limited time here in the game (and it is going to be limited, that I have no doubts of) to hunt scum and make my suspicions known. Your dislike of that really doesn’t concern me.

I don't like the way you keep saying you will die soon. If you are really town, it shouldn't matters to you - unless

you are a PR

and you feel the pressure of getting results rather sooner than later. Furthermore it allows scums (and werewolves) to play on that. Letting you live can be a good way to mess up with the remaining town mind. And if you happens to be scum and rides your self-created towncred until the last stages of the game, I hope someone will have the courage to question your alignment.

Rolefishing and moi was killed night one. MoI was also the main attacked on you.

Rolefishing ? When I'm just speculating on the reason that could force him to say he will die the first night. I was proved right, but it doesn't mean I put him in the position to reveal his possible - at that time - Power Role.

I think you are trying to frame me.

#608 is bad, based on a flimsy premise. At least as far as the night kill is concerned.

#612 takes it weirdly too far in a defense. 'You're framing me?' Not, 'I think you've smoked too much happy weed,' or 'The majority of this post seems entirely based on a WIFOMIC premise.' But the final stroke is 'You're framing me.'

[Ghostlin]

EBWOP: Translation: Both sorgster and Otolia get scum points for the above. If one of them flips scummy, the odds of the other one flipping scummy would go up in this instance.

Still like Jak at this point, but...wow.

[Ghostlin]

The fact that DX had suspicion on MoI is null. While scum don't kill their suspects, MoI has a reputation as a strong town player, and was obvtown. Therefore, null.

As for IceGuy's lynching, isn't there a role whose vote decreases the amount of votes required to lynch the target it's voting on? Either that or a double-secret doublevoter.

Hang on, you actually have a point about the nature of a double-scumteam game. I suppose MoI could plausibly have been killed for that reason.

This post is seriously setting off my scumdar. Look through each paragraph carefully.

First one is hypothesizing about the NK (which on D2 is, at best, an art), and Wraith comes to no real conclusion about DX about it.

Second one is speculation about the setup, which is useless for two reasons: 1) IceGuy flipped VT, not VT-Who-Gets-Lynched-At-L-1.

2) Nobody has claimed a double vote or vote stealer ability yet. As I said before, the lack of the claim makes me think this is in fact a scum PR

. (1)

Third one is a supposition about the NK motivation all over again, but with no action based on that belief afterwards. A complete lack of initiative.

All three paragraphs are incredibly scummy. Given Wraith's wraith-like (har har har) presence in the background on D1, and this post alone, I want a wagon on him NOW.

Unvote. Vote: Wraith.

PS: Jakalope is still scum, though. The Fonz I am less sure about now. He's def playing more townish than his predecessor, so I need to go back and re-read that slot.

1) Fonz, #592. Gonna have to refute you here. DV's been accounted for in a slot that was not a huge town slot and is still, well, he's better, but is null and improving.

2) The speculation point makes more sense, due to #536--I did kinda go 'what' at the time, because I didn't know what the point was of asking me why there wasn't a kill I wasn't involved in was blocked (regardless of alignment, the question made no sense). Although there are a few people in town, myself included who did this (well, I didn't speculate, because I figured MoI dying was pretty obvious).

[Ghostlin]

QUICK QUESTION

MY SHIFT KEY SUDDENLY STARTED FUNCTIONING AS CTRL THIS MORNING FOR SOME DAMN REASON AND NOW I CAN'T USE PUNCTUATION, AND AM TOO LAZY TO SHIFT CAPS ON AND OFF OVER AND OVER

ANYONE KNOW HOW TO FIX THIS

Wraith: I'd try unplugging your keyboard, popping your out and giving your keyboard a shake to see if that improves it. You can wash a keyboard, but be careful how you do it, you don't want anything that's too soluble.

Otherwise, spend a bit and get a new one?

[Ghostlin]

12. Ghostlin: Claimed vig. No problem with this claim; I kind of thought Ghost looked town-ish on day 1 anyway. Interesting that there were only two kills last night, but there are multiple plausible explanations for that. I don’t really get *why* he claimed when he did, though, when under no pressure, or why he felt he had to make clear right away that he was a “1-shot vig”. That being said, probably town.

There were a few unspoken questions here. Let me answer them.

1) I only had one Vig shot. I executed it on EC. I wanted to debunk the WIFOM on 'why would anyone kill EC?' now--I killed him because his blind wagonning was a scumtell, he was unlikely to see a noose the way he was lurking Day 1, and well, honestly, I chose a non-contributing possible scum to shoot now instead of having them kinda just be there until Lylo.
2) If more than two kills get executed, while I may be suspected, I want it to be painfully clear I cannot Vig NK past this point. (It's also a check and balance to see if I'm lying.)
3) There is another reason why claiming the NK now works to the purposes of myself and town.

[Ghostlin]

EBWOP: No, sadly, Yos, you don't get full disclosure on 3.

[Ghostlin]

@Ghostlin : sorgster is maybe WIFOMing the hell out of me, but you sure smoke too much happy weed.

Otolia, that was easily one of the weakest cases I've seen, followed by one of the most... overtly paranoidly interesting defensives I've ever seen, I could EASILY see it as a distancing bus on behalf of one of you and sorg, I could easily see you both together as partners.

Hell, replace the word 'bus' in the 'You're trying to frame me' sentence, and you don't lose that much in the translation.

[Ghostlin]

EBWOP: Last sentence should read 'frame' for 'bus' in the 'You're trying to frame me' sentence. It'll make sense if you make the substitution.

[Ghostlin]

Toasty you've conveniently completely ignored Dry-Fit.

What's your read on him?

People on the lame Jakolope wagon too, what's your read on Dry?

Null. He's been scumhunting just enough for me not to want to hang him over the number of lovely candidates at our disposal, but I'm not protesting the existance of his wagon today. #76 and #129 I agree with, it's many of the same problems I have with Jak; he calls out Sorg in #329 (pretty much for not scumhunting), and Sage in #377 for #315.

However

...we don't know exactly what he agreed with on the Otalia wagon, #558 isn't really anything too new from the things he's dug up, and he's not present with any town reads. However he is trying besides doing: one of X, Y, and Z are scum. And he takes time to pay attention somewhat and play the game.

Not really much else to skim here. #404 is meh (it doesn't read as if it was posted by town or scum). #599 is a defense of play based on meta, which depending on who you are, has more or less value. I find it null-y, meta can be changed somewhat over time as the player learns to play and gets comfortable in a role (town, third party, or scum).

[Ghostlin]

EBWOP: What's your acutal --case-- on Dry-Fit? He called you out in #126, and you kinda went 'that's over aggressive' in #213. If that's the entire point of your 'read' on him, sorry, some people scumhunt by being aggressive and pushy. (Exhibit: any Fate game that's finished. Or GI, when you really get him riled.)

[Ghostlin]

Whispersilk also surprised me with her post, considering we did a lot of fighting about her wanting to lurk Day 1.

Sorry, which post are you referring to here?

Doing a catch up atm.

Whisper: #538. We could use some more analysis like #538 devoted to the current situtation.

DX: Yes, but I didn't want to post, "You're calling some people

too aggressive

? There are some raging maniacs out there," in respect to those players, because they're not bad at what they do when you see them in action. I've gotten lynched almost entirely due to GI once. Those kinda players can radiate a kinda of aura that makes you paying attention to who they're attacking, or as scum, radiate a lot of noise. A LOT of noise. Their play style is kinda like plugging in a toaster and throwing in into a full bathtub.

I guess what I'm trying to say is I'm reading a few people in this town and get instantly struck by a 'that's a overtly sensitive' kind of AtE I don't trust from players that seem to have been around a bit.

[Ghostlin]

In post 601, StefanB wrote:
That that doesn't make sense is nothink new, (with 2 scumfactions the fact that two people are probably not scum together doesn't mean that both can't be scum) To miss that we have 2 scumteam is not an excuse that I believe posted now. So the only way that two people aren't scum together and you know that one is town, means that you are on the other scumteam.

Toasty: Please don't stop reading this game. Your posts are an interesting insight into your head. Frankly, we need more posters and your posts have contained more analysis than most of the rest of town so far.

[Ghostlin]

Take out Toasty, who promised to vote when he has caught up, there are:
Baby Spice and TheJakolope:

Getting replaced, and on VLA. Oh wait, Jak's back. Bandwagonning opportunity vote go!

David who dislikes votes. PE: And has just voted!!!

(Yes, for Dry-Fit. Between him and Jak, one of them's probably going to be lynched today, it drags the DX death march to Day 3, at least.)

Bogre and Alabaska who have not contributed

anything of use ever.

Frustrating!!!!

Whisper, Dry-Fit why have you not voted??

FTFY, Stefan.

Folks, if you're not actually scum and are not posting (or even if you are), please consider the poor people playing this game and considering finding a replacement. Don't ask Magua for a replacement, he's probably having a hard time as it is, but when at least 1/3rd of our happy game can't be bothered (excepting V/LA) to even post at least one a day, you're not really helping out your faction.

That said, when you folks consider placement on the Dry-Fit wagon, please remember that we currently have a DV on that wagon (unless it's gotta be declared).

[Ghostlin]

David Xanatos (2): Maxous, PeregrineV
BBmolla (2): Wraith, Dry-fit
Alabaska J (1): zMuffinMan

Those of you on these wagons; (also not voting if you're here and paying attention) do you support the wagons leading town today? We're not in a huge hurry to lynch and while I can support more or less some of these wagons for lynch today; we do have a bankable deadline and want input, new eyes and possible extensions to cases on the leading wagons.

Dry-Fit is at L-5; Jak is at L-6 as of last vote count. Keep this in mind if you throw votes 'round.

Fonz: Stefan has a point in #702. Do both votes have to be placed on the same candidate?

[Ghostlin]

Also, DX, why is Dry-Fit scummier than Jak? You just said he was without any reasoning behind it.

[Ghostlin]

Oversoul, Dry-fit, Bogre, sorgster--WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE AND WHAT HAVE THY DONE

...So these people are town for lurking and getting along without being noticed?

Totally makes sense.

I think the 'Toast' catergory is for nulls. Call me crazy, but that's how I do reads.

[Ghostlin]

PV, what do the colors mean? I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be looking at. I'm sure Green is town.

Why call out DavidX and not other dodgers, such as myself? also, is your first sentence a full joke (you say it is a joke, but whether you think he is scummy for doing it is left up to speculation), or do you agree that posting just those pictures instead of a response is the sign of a lazy scum hoping people will just assume his response is stupid because of their .gif? also, why was Sage protown to you at this point? it's ok if you can't remember the answer to that last question; that's what i get for being late to the party

Sage's post right before that read town to me. (No, don't ask me why exactly. If I were to guess, I'd say it was

at that point

, he was

trying

to scum hunt.) He still slid backwards through out the day, tho'.

Believe me when I tell you I don't scum hunt using the proper use of memes.

The reason I called DX for scum more than other lurkers is mostly his play D1 where he RVS's himself (not actually scummy, ironically), removes the RVS vote and refuses to vote anyone although he had suspicions on BS and MoI. I don't like the reasoning of 'I don't want to add a vote to change it later'. That's really the point of Day 1; and it logically makes no sense to provide a RVS vote then that's the only purpose is just to remove it.

The man provides no other reads or reasoning from early Day 1 to when he ended Day 1. (Granted, most of that was v/LA, but if we had a vote, we could of had a better idea of his position.) Day 2...we still don't have any reads, much, except he apparently does not like Dry-Fit. We don't know why he doesn't like Dry-Fit, but he's on Dry-Fit's wagon.

I shot EC for being on a wagon (one that flipped town) for no reason at all. If you read DX's Day 2 content, there isn't much content there. I don't have another shot, but if I did, I would consider shooting DX.

[Ghostlin]

Emp--if I remember correctly, you're a man of few words, but humor me, why is AJ town?

[Ghostlin]

PV, what do the colors mean? I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be looking at. I'm sure Green is town.

The full-on green is the dead town (MoI, EthCookie). The off-shades are the voting blocks currently voting either Dry-fit or Jak. Please see my post above for what I gleamed from all that.

Also, apparently myself and DY are voting together, but did not vote IG day 1.

[Ghostlin]

So after Toasty, we have Alabaska doing walls of the past. Great !

@PeregrineV

: What are your conclusions on the 'votecount' you did ? Do you see patterns or anything valuable ? If not, was it useful at all ?

I think we are heading in a wall right now.

Neither Dry-Fit nor TheJakalope are defending themselves actively. For me it means that they are not town PR because those are most likely feeling the burden of responsibility (particularly for newer players), so it leaves us with them being scum or VT.

Since we can't agree on one of them, I suggest switching all our votes on somebody else (like sorgster for example) at once. Remember that the day is dawning soon.

This is called "being on the right track". As it says most VT PMs, a good VT only has their voice; so why aren't DF and Jak using theirs.

Also, Alabaska contributes and you're giving him flak about length?

Scanning for Town motivation to post this......processing....no Town motivation found.

This is a horribad post. It also smells like role-fishing to me.

[Ghostlin]

Wraith, the argument that Otolia's posted is more than a little meh. He posits that Dry Fit and Jak aren't town power roles mostly because they've not had a well constructed defense, so they must be VT's or scum. If we accept this premise and find either likely, it's a 50/50 that we hit scum. The next part of the argument makes my head 'splode--he says we should mob someone else for lynch when we have two well developed wagons Day 2.

So...the premise is saying equal split between VT/Scum, so let's leave them alone? The logic isn't just meh, it's from the depths of hell.

Dry-Fit's last post does seem like 'let's choose three people who are riding me and discredit them,' I can agree there.

[Ghostlin]

This is my first game with multiple scums and I lurk because it would be easiest for scum to be active and keep killing each other leaving for an easy town victory.

Also, there are probably some people here who are only looking for one scumteam instead of two. There is a reason for that.

#768:

WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN

#771: ....And that reason is because they're scum? What does this have to do with scum hunting? What does this have to do with

anything

?

Two scum teams is not a revelation from heaven when it's pretty much spelled out in the setup. I don't really give a care until my protown condition has been fulfilled, which means red flips. Whether it's scum team A, or scum team B, it doesn't matter.

[Ghostlin]

Alabaska J (3): zMuffinMan, ToastyToast, TheJakalope
David Xanatos (2): Maxous, PeregrineV
BBmolla (2): Wraith, Dry-fit
sorgster (1): Bogre

Not voting (1): whispersilk

With four days left, people need to have to doublecheck who they think that is scum on the leading wagons. If it's got 2 votes, I'd say you'd need an awesome case for a lynch, and unless you're going to build the AJ wagon past 3 votes, it should be either Dry-Fit or Jak votes as well.

We've got a bankable deadline, and it's coming up. Whisper, please place your vote somewhere.

[Ghostlin]

Alabaska J (3): zMuffinMan, ToastyToast, TheJakalope
David Xanatos (2): Maxous, PeregrineV
BBmolla (2): Wraith, Dry-fit
sorgster (1): Bogre

Not voting (1): whispersilk

With four days left, people need to have to doublecheck who they think that is scum on the leading wagons. If it's got 2 votes, I'd say you'd need an awesome case for a lynch, and unless you're going to build the AJ wagon past 3 votes, it should be either Dry-Fit or Jak votes as well.

We've got a bankable deadline, and it's coming up. Whisper, please place your vote somewhere.

Unvote.
Vote: BBMolla

Others were able to speculate without claiming anything. And your claim for no reason doesn't make sense to me. A town PR would never do it without the spectre of lynching.

where does he claim…

Post 789 sure sounds like one (see post 799)

What did I claim.

Vote Count 2.10

With 22 alive, it takes 12 to lynch.

TheJakalope (7): Global Warming, Ghostlin, StefanB, Otolia, DarthYoshi, Oversoul, Alabaska J
Dry-Fit (6): BBmolla, The Fonz, Yosarian2, David Xanatos, sorgster, Empking's Alt
Alabaska J (3): zMuffinMan, ToastyToast, TheJakalope
BBmolla (3): Wraith, Dry-fit, PeregrineV
David Xanatos (1): Maxous
sorgster (1): Bogre

Not voting (1): whispersilk

V/LA: TheJakalope (10/24)

Deadline is October 25th, at 11:00am EST.
Countdown to deadline:

(expired on 2011-10-25 11:00:00)

I post #813. You turn around, post #819. Magua posts #824, reminding us we have less time before and you just increased a wagon that was at L-10.

Why are you stalling and how is voting for the BBMolla wagon with less than 4 days left of a bankable deadline town?

[Ghostlin]

EBWOP: #816, rather.

[Ghostlin]

Unvote.
Vote: BBMolla

Others were able to speculate without claiming anything. And your claim for no reason doesn't make sense to me. A town PR would never do it without the spectre of lynching.

where does he claim…

Post 789 sure sounds like one (see post 799)

No, it doesn't. You asked him why there was only one NK in a game with two scumteams. The possible answers for that are:

1. A team forgot to submit a kill
2. One of the kills targeted the same player as either the vig or other scumteam
3. A power role (or BP) stopped one of the scumteams from killing.

He can't possibly know whether either of the first two are true unless he's scum in which case he's not admitting to it, and so the only possible motive for your question is to find out whether he knows anything about whether it might be 3). IE, trying to find out if he has a power role. What else could you possibly have been trying to find out with that question?

You're now further rolefishing him by the way you're pushing this 'He claimed' shit that, if BBMolla isn't careful, could lead to him dropping a hint that could indicate whether or not he has a pr.

Wraith asked me why there was only two kills at the beginning of Day 2.

Where were you to point this out then? Was PV rolefishing and Wraith wasn't?

[Ghostlin]

If there are 4 days left, shouldn't you still try to push your case? I've seen lynches flip completely at deadline. I feel like I missed some questions, so I'll get back to that l8ter

Yes, but that's really not a case.

If someone were to hit me with a compelling case, I'd be willing to vote for it, but I've not seen anything new from the BBMolla wagon, and the point he made isn't really a case. In fact, I can't see where he claimed at all, and if it's a breadcrumb, it shouldn't have been pointed out.

[Ghostlin]

It's time for VCA analysis:

Day 1 Lynch:

IceGuy

(12): Maxous, Global Warming,

TheJakalope

, StefanB,

EtherealCookie

, sageamagoo, BBmolla,

MagnaofIllusion

, Oversoul, Yosarian2,

zMuffinMan

, David Xanatos

sageamagoo (5): DarthYoshi, Bogre, Ghostlin, PeregrineV,

IceGuy

Otolia (3): sorgster, Dry-fit, Baby Spice
Baby Spice (2): Alabaska J, Wraith
StefanB (1): Otolia

MagnaofIllusion

(1): ToastyToast
sorgster (1): whispersilk

Day 2 Lynch:

TheJakalope

(12): Global Warming, Ghostlin, StefanB, Otolia, DarthYoshi, Oversoul, Alabaska J, Maxous, sorgster, Bogre, ToastyToast, David Xanatos

Dry-Fit (5): BBmolla, The Fonz, Yosarian2, Empking's Alt,

zMuffinMan

BBmolla (3): Wraith, Dry-fit, PeregrineV
Alabaska J (1):

TheJakalope

Notes:

Here's what I want you to look at if we're looking at anything. The following people were on the lynch both days: GW, SB, Oversoul, Max, DX (who hammered both times.)

I have town reads on GW and SB, stronger on GW than SB.

Oversoul's been a null all game. I wouldn't mind an OS lynch.

Max's vote at the end the day really, really, really set off alarm bells. Like he mentions multiple times that day that he supported a Jak lynch without actually ever explaining why he supported the Jak lynch Day 2. (Yes, we got reads, but never any qualifiers. I for an example don't know why he thinks I'm scum), and his IG was really shallow. Frankly, the whole Max/Jak thing smells and reads like a major,

almost 100% confirmed

, bus.

I don't like DX either, particularly his vote yesterday, but something tells me if he's as scummy as he obviously sounds, he's batting for the other team.

Kids, let's weaken the gene pool and eliminate Max. This is a quality lynch for today.

Vote: Max

[Ghostlin]

EBWOP: Oh. And AJ's leaning town analyzing the data. His vote on BS day 1 leads credence that he wasn't paying attention versus being opportunistic, and the only person to REMAIN on AJ was a wolf. While that could be a bus, I'm not convinced after his play Day 2.

[Ghostlin]

EBWOP: Kids, let's weaken the gene pool and eliminate Max, should read: Kids, let's weaken the scum gene pool and eliminate Max, OR let's straighten the gene pool and eliminate Max.

[Ghostlin]

While I'm glad to finally almost three days in to get detailed reads from Max, a lot of of it is IIoA and stuff I'd expect Day 1, not Day 3. In fact, his ISO is rife with IIoA--and with all the information he's surely gathered, you'd think it'd be time for a vote to kick off the day?

I really think guessing what the hell scum's doing and who prevented what is fraught with WIFOM, which while some of it is good, is a magical land where a lot of nothing gets done. The wolves and mafia would love for you to drink the wine, it's got iocane powder in it.

Don't like Molla's claim, but am willing to at the moment let it slide because I've got bigger fish to fry.

PV---Who do you think is scum and more importantly, why aren't you voting them?

[Ghostlin]

Who did you roleblock last night, and (given that there was only one kill), why didn't you reveal it immediately?

And you revealed this...why?
Seriously.

I roleblocked BBmolla.
And yeah, it slightly increased my suspicion, but it's not as if there are'nt any other numerous reasons a kill would of been prevented.
It was nothing worth claiming for.

Someone didn't die, you RBed someone else and you thought that was an unimportant detail?

Please, pray tell, how many other 'unimportant details' are you hiding from town? No, wait, sorry, I --didn't ask-- you directly instead of you volunteering the information.

[Ghostlin]

Max, the IG wagon, day 1 (So you can find my comments, I'll put them in bold):

hmm

unvote

VOTE: IceGuy

I'm gonna go with this

Alright. Not any explanation really, and yes, I did search the other posts for one.

Ice Guy
-

Explain how zMuffinman has been opportunistic if you don't mind.

Not bad, except I don't know why you're actually on the wagon. I presume you don't like IG's stance on OMGUSing Muff--but I'm not sure why you're here still.

So what if BabySpice and Otolia are scum? Where is the opportunism here?

I'm surprised you said this. In present circumstances that would mean diddly squat.

zMuffinMan and TheJakalope noted for opportunistic jump on my wagon without any justification.

Explain how zMuffinman has been opportunistic if you don't mind.

I...included this because it mentioned IG somewhere in the post.

I have not been as usful as I like that's right. But perhaps that helps:

Unvote

Vote: Sageamagoo

, the defence of Whisper came of to strong and unecasary, makes me think scumpartners.

I'm still confused about this.
Why did you change your vote here?

Ice is one of the scummiest posters here, and you have nothing to say to him, instead going against Stephan. I could imagine you being on the same team as Ice.

DY has'nt said anything about StefanB :/
Just gonna point out IceGuy has sought to discredit pretty much every player on his wagon with 'opportunistic vote' accusations and forging a link between myself and Muffin. ( and Ice still won't point out how Muffin has been 'opportunistic')

OK. IG's OMGUSing his wagon, check. It sounds like you're frosting the cake...but where's the cake?

So many jokes have went over people's head in this game...
It is ironically funny.

Can IceGuy just claim now?
It's a waste of time to put him at L-1 first.
He is clearly the intended lynch.

WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN

"Guys, can we move this along so I don't have to stop during the IceGuy mislynch for a claim?" is how this post reads to me. The 'clearly intended' lynch had a counterwagon that was building up steam about this time. There were quite a few members of town who thought IG was mislynch bait.

Plus, while we've been treated to about three posts of justifying the vote, we still don't know why the original vote was cast in the first place.

Max, it's exceedingly hard to 'look for context' why you were on the wagon of a mislynch fire when you don't give us one.

[Ghostlin]

Maxous's Jack Attack--Day 2:

Done, and I will support lynches on DX and Jack.

With Jack - I don't have too much of a problem with his reads thing but too much focus has been on the defensive, not enough scumhunting for my liking.

DX has been way too cautious in this game for my liking. Even the way he put the vote in IceGuy he made 2 posts beforehand explaining how he was voting because that was in the best interests of the town(i will vote how the town directs me to). Seems nervous to do something that might bring suspicion on him (like the did'nt wanna vote hop earlier)

For anyone interested...

Spoiler:

2. Baby Spice - town
3. PeregrineV - lean scum
5. whispersilk - null
6. Otolia - town
7. BBmolla - lean scum
8. TheJakalope - scum
9. Oversoul (replaces Lowell) - lean town
11. Wraith - town
12. Ghostlin - was gonna lean scum but taking vig claim into account.
13. The Fonz (replaces sageamagoo who replaces malpascp) - lean scum
14. Dry-fit - lean town
15. Bogre - null
16. Global Warming (a hydra of RayFrost + ConSpiracy) - town
17. Alabaska J - null
18. sorgster - lean scum
19. Yosarian2 - lean town
20. ToastyToast (replaces Magister Ludi) - lean town
21. David Xanatos - scum
23. DarthYoshi - town
24. StefanB - lean scum
25. zMuffinMan - lean town

If you want an elaboration on anybody, ask.

Looking back through Jak's iso, I can acutally see why Max would say this about him. A few things interest me here:
1) Jak's defensive posting for the most part disappeared when suspicion about him disappeared Day 1.
2) If you agree with his reads (or how he's doing his reads), how is he not scumhunting enough? This isn't explained.

Oh, and guys...I hate posts that end in 'if you want to know more info, just ask,' when it comes to things like reads. That information should be public.

Dry-Fit. Jakalope has done some weird stuff, but I can't really see a scum motive for his behavior.

Not getting lynched..

Actually I'll clarify.
Overly defending and concentrating on not getting lynched to the point where looking for mafia takes second prioirity.

The interesting thing here is Max can describe the behavior, but he's yet to say 'Hey guys, Jak's spent the majority of his time in the early game defending himself.' Really, tho', I can't help but think at this point Yos is going 'I don't understand why someone bold as brass would go one of I, J, and K are scum, that tends to draw attention to one's self.' In which case Yos's is right, the first part of the post doesn't make sense, it's not much of a defensive tactic.

TheJackolope: Nothing to say for your defence, just voting the other waggon?

Why did you ask just Jack and not DX who done the exact same?

I hear a chainsaw every time I read this post. Maybe I need my ears checked. By the way, 2.5 which did happen after this post and there was no votes after this post and that vote count looks like this:

Vote Count 2.5

With 22 alive, it takes 12 to lynch.

Dry-Fit (6): BBmolla, The Fonz, Yosarian2, David Xanatos, sorgster, TheJakalope
TheJakalope (5): Global Warming, Ghostlin, StefanB, Otolia, DarthYoshi
David Xanatos (2): Maxous, PeregrineV
Alabaska J (1): zMuffinMan
BBmolla (1): Wraith
sorgster (1): Oversoul

Not voting (6): Baby Spice, whispersilk, Dry-fit, Bogre, Alabaska J, ToastyToast

Deadline is October 25th, at 11:00am EST.

The question is, Jak and DF are in the lead by a sizable amount of votes, and I trust Stefan can count. (At least I hope so). At that point, it's kinda like asking what's BB's reasoning for being on the DF wagon when there was a wagon on him.

Or more bluntly, the DX wagon wasn't likely to go anywhere.

@Ghostlin: Jackolope - yes
Dry Fit - no.

Toasty - what has the Fonz done to get town points?

OK. You'll lynch Jak. What are you doing on DX again? He's got, like, two votes...

@DarthYoshi: I agree that some people are wagoning Jakalope for his playstyle.
However I beleive Jakalope to be scum for seperate reasons, so I don't care.
You don't have to lynch scum with everyone providing the right reasoning.

Awesome! This seems to indicate that you're ready and willing to vote Jak to lynch him for the day! So, the next vote count...Max was on Jak, right...nope #804, no Jak vote. Well, maybe he went out and grabbed a bite to eat, got away from the computer....#824...no Jak vote. In fact...he's the only one still on DX....

He does Jak in the #844 vote count, but it's dragged a while. Which he knew:

unvote,

VOTE: The Jakalope

I did'nt realise the deadline was so short.

I'll answer/give thoughts later..

This is why I call the Jak vote a bus, kids. He had an alternate scum read that he was willing to lynch, had days to get on the wagon while his DX wagon was going nowhere, and only bothers to join the wagon near the end of the day for the minimum amount of time saved for town.

[Ghostlin]

tl;dr Ghostlin's vomit of analysis: Max's summary of play Day 1: Joins IG with no reasoning. However, goes out of his way to criticize the play without forming any sort of reasoning or a case. I used the cake metaphor earlier and it's right: it's like frosting a cake without baking it first.

Summary Day 2: Says he supports a Jak lynch, but tunnels DX to the point that he switches votes near the last seconds of the Day when he knows the DX wagon hasn't gone anywhere. Passive aggressively pushes a Jak lynch without actually ever voting. Roughly sixty posts and 2 RL days passed from #764, which could be read as a show of support to #832, where he ponies up.

[Ghostlin]

I really don't get the Max hate.

I really like the DX hate.

But is everyone really forgetting about Otolia and all those terrible posts he made yesterday?

Vote: Otalia

No, I haven't, DF. Unfortunately, Magua didn't include the words 'triple voter' to my role and I feel Max is scum and have since...oh, midday 1.

I would support a DX lynch, but I really feel we'd be doing a disservice to let him get away.

[Ghostlin]

PV---Who do you think is scum and more importantly, why aren't you voting them?

Most everybody, but I only have one vote.

There are obvious candidates (BBMolla, Dry-Fit, Max, DavidX) and the not so obvious (Alabaska, StefanB, Global Warming). I'll look back over day2 and day1, and then vote, unless someone presents a better reason than the ones so far.

Bad answer. Let me ask the reverse question: who you do have the town reads on?

[Ghostlin]

VOTE: Sorgster

Still thinking Jak was a bus.

As far as the Max claim, I don't know about a loss of a kill. With 2 kills n1, a vig claiming he shot and wasn't going to anymore, and 1 kill night 2, this seems plausible.

Is thinking Jak was a bus the primary reason you've voting sorgster?

[Ghostlin]

I'm in his society, we were told at the start that our original members (Me, BB, Alabaster) do not contain Werewolves. So unless you happen to believe I'm Mafia, bugger off. Not sure what to make of BB personally, given that the RB coincides with a missing kill..

What if I told you that I already thought of this and did not think you were part of the same team Jak was?

Although free confirmation is great. Thank you.

[Ghostlin]

Here's kinda what we know:
1) BBMolla has claimed to be in a SS with DX and AJ. At the time of this post, DX has confirmed this to be true. I missed if AJ confirmed, but it should be the first thing when he gets back if he hasn't. (IE, I've not seen a post.)
2) They are claiming none of the society members are werewolves. However, mafia are still up for question.
3) Max blocked BB Molla (according to him) last night.
4) Toasty Toast has one of the following: a role that can confirm jobs; or some other confirmation of Max's role, as evidenced by him calling Max out; Max did not deny he had a roleblock.
5) There was one kill last night.

Here's my (slightly WIFOMsque) thinking from that:

1) I acutally believe that BBMolla's group are

not

Werewolves. It'd be a fairly horrible scum gambit to claim you weren't something but you could be something else, and be the first since the moment you flipped, it'd be lynch the fuzzies central. (And DX is attracting suspicion.) Which leaves the following possibilities:
*None of the SS are scum.
*1 or more, but not all of the SS are scum.
*The entire Mafia team (or a good chunk of it) is doing a gambit. While a case of Insane Troll Logic, this makes a certain amount of sense since they're technically not lying to us.

BB, DX, AJ: Can you induct any more members? Just a YES or NO please.

2) Four isn't really revelant except we know Max is an RB, and this gives me a large Town vibe from Toasty Toast. This doesn't confirm Max as Town. At all.

3) If BBMolla has a role that has a result that would negate Max's claim for block, he should claim now. Otherwise he shouldn't. Most investigation roles will bring back a result, while most protection and roleblocking roles will not. (Yes, this is an echo of PV.) We lynch the first claimiant if a counterclaim happens, and if town, we lynch the second.

4) No one else should claim at this time unless it would countermand a result: ie, Toasty's ability to find Max is a RB, Max's RB of BBMolla, etc.

5) In order, my belief of the three person SS of likelihood of being scum is: DX, BB, and then AJ. DX's lynch wagon should continue to gather steam to gather pressure and he would be OK to lynch today to eliminate some possibilities. (I already have thought that DX and Jak are not on the same time previous to this, so it's not a revelation.)

[Ghostlin]

Something that just occurred to me, the possibility of a gambit.

Toast reveals Maxous has role, if Maxous is lynched, Toasty gains towncred for it, if Toasty is lynched, Maxous looks good in that light..

Just a stream of thought, but thought I should put it down.

This only works if Toasty and Max are part of the same scum team. Opposing scum factions do not usually help each other in this manner. This theory also changes roughly nothing---Max is still scum by this reasoning.

There is if you don't have a means of communicating with your team and you think something's important. It occurs to me that a Scum group that had it's kill blocked would want rid of the Roleblocker before the next Night, where they could potentially do further damage..

This doesn't work with your first theory. Opposing scum teams don't know each other any better than town knows what the opposing scum teams are. Toasty can't be bussing Max for town cred and getting rid of an opposing blocker at the same time. All of this is moot, tho', becuase for the most part, I have a town read on Toasty and a scum read on Max, so I'd be inclined to lynch Max for concealing information anyhow.

At Night, most likely, but if a Roleblocker is targetting one of your members, it could be considered rather bad to have him around to perform his action. Remember that even if they were to shoot him, he'd get the RB off for that night.. if he's lynched, that doesn't happen.

Alternatively (and this is a long-shot, but possible), they have some form of day ability that he'd be wanting pointed at Maxous.

Again, this presumes Toasty knows anything about Max in excess to role or his action last night. Evidence only suggests Toasty knows Max's role somehow.

[Ghostlin]

EBWOP: Um...apparently that wasn't a text wall and didn't need the bold tags. Sorry everyone.

[Ghostlin]

ITT: Wildmassguessings from some of the people in town.

Bogre: I doubt all

five

people are a scumteam together. There are two teams. Without diving into speculation too deeply about pairings, please list those you find mostly likely to be bussing and who you think are unlikely to be paired with Jak.

[Ghostlin]

You think I am scum, who confirmed other scum and kept it to my myself so the town would'nt lynch the other scum and gain an advantage in this game?

yes, that's exactly what I think.

+1 to this post. What you've just snarkily hit on is practically written in "How To Win As Scum."

[Ghostlin]

Can someone succinctly clarify the Max/BBMolla deal and if they are counterclaiming each other.

OK. Here's a quick recap of the day. I cited Max for a bus of Jak (and a few other reasons, along with reasoning that his joining the IG wagon was crap and not well done) and GW joined my wagon with a few other folks. Toasty Toast went 'wait a minute. There was one nightkill and Maxous blocked and didn't claim it.' He voted Max for concealing the RB which could be revelant from Town. Max claims he blocked BBmolla.

Somewhere during this BBmolla claimed that he was in a SS team with DX and AJ and none of the three of them could be Wolf scum when the wagon started on him. This was confirmed by DX and AJ. Note this is Wolves NOT Mafia. The claim was slopply done, but believable enough since no one from that team had any real ties to Jak.

Max, under duress, has claimed he blocked my Vig target N1; which was Etherial Cookie.

I have to admit I'm fuzzy on the BBMolla case; but I think some of it is a hold over from the last game day.

They've not counterclaimed each other pe se, and I think Toasty revealing Jak's action last night is valid...however, there is something bothering me:

BBMolla: Yes or no again: did you take an action last night (either through your own power or that of the SS?)DO NOT REVEAL YOUR NIGHT ACTION.

[Ghostlin]

I have a theory that might work in town's favor, but it does involve keeping at least Max alive, and perferably both Molla and Max alive if we decide to go that route. Still willing to hang Max, tho'.

[Ghostlin]

EBWOP: Acutally, it involves keeping Molla alive. Max is more of the optional.

[Ghostlin]

Here's the theory: I think whatever Molla did would be enacted at the beginning of Day 3. I think he used a SS power, most likely. If Molla was blocked, the effect of the power will not be enacted Night 3, and Molla, DX and AJ can confirm if it worked or not Day 4. If the effect worked, we can confirm that BBMolla was or was not the target of Max. Let me quote you from the Spaghetti Monster PM (which is where this theory's coming from):

All hail the Flying Spaghetti Monster! Worship him! Obey him! Be touched by his noodly appendage! For he is THE ONE! Obey your master! Pastafarianism will rule!

As a member of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (hereafter: CotFSM), you gain access to the following:

CotFSM Knowledge: The current members of the CotFSM are XXX, YYY, and ZZZ.

CotFSM Communication (P): You may speak with fellow members of the CotFSM during the Night in a Quicktopic here.

CotFSM Leadership (P): The members of the CotFSM vote during the Day on who will be able to use an ability, as described in II.3.f.

CotFSM Abilities: Each Night, the leader of the CotFSM may perform one of these abilities. The ability used (and any targets) may be stated in the Quicktopic or PMed to the mod -- in the case where both are done, the one PMed to the mod takes precedence.

Induction (A): Choose up to three players who are not already members of the CotFSM. The first one in the list that is eligible will join the CotFSM at the start of the next Night.

Noodly Appendage (A): Choose another player. They will receive a PM at the beginning of the next Day informing them they have been touched by the Flying Spaghetti Monster’s noodly appendage.

Behold! (A): This may be used only once during the game. It will be publicly announced. All players who have been touched by the Flying Spaghetti Monster’s noodly appendage will have their role (but not alignment) publicly revealed. Both “Goon” and “Vanilla Townie” will be revealed as “Vanilla.”

Boiled for Their Sins (A): If there are five or more members of the CotFSM, choose another player who is not a member of the CotFSM. If this player is of the same alignment as you, you will be killed. If this player is of a different alignment from you, they will be killed.

Molla, it's up to you if you want to confirm any of the above I've said, but I'm asking only for confirmation, not the reveal of your role.

[Ghostlin]

How does confirming I did indeed block BB make a difference to what alignment we are?

I personally, like to know when people lie to me, even if it is just for PoE. Whether or not you are lying may have nothing to do with Town, but could have tons to do if you were scum. Particularly when you post this:

I don't like BB's constant hinting, but the power he is claiming must be provable otherwise this all would just be pointless.

The non-werewolf society along with his push to lynch BB makes me re-consider DX. If DX is mafia lynching BB would be....counter-productive.

Sorgster - why did you think Dry-Fit was scum?
That whole thing with Sorg just deciding to ISO only Ludi and suspect him for it continues to be quite weird.

Actually.

unvote,

VOTE: Vote Sorgster

I'm gonna vote him until he tells me why Dry-Fit was/is scum.

@Whoever asked- I know the top two wagons right now and Dry-fit and Jak, but I don't recall a particularly striking case on either of them, despite receiving so many votes. I can do a post dig for eachvoter's case, but the result will be if I don't agree with the crappy cases and don't find enough scumminess on my own when I read either one, I probably won't vote for them.

^
Did you do this? I don't remember an opinion on them afterwards.

1) If the effects are confirmable, we can confirm him later. We are not doing this tonight.
2) I don't see how DX pushing someone in the same SS is 'counterproductive'. If certain powers that could be used against his scum buddies, he's going to want to prevent that, stuff his the SS full of buddies, etc.

The DX/Max interactions are shaking my faith that they're not on the same team.

The cognitive dissonance of pushing Molla as much as Max has (he roleblocked him last night) and not voting him, and not announcing the possible roleblock with one kill makes me more convinced that Max is not town. I'm interested in hearing Max's answer to Yos's question.

[Ghostlin]

@Maxous: If you thought DX was more likely scum, then why did you block BB instead? Logic holes.

This. So this! If DX is superscummy, why would you let him do night actions? This isn't a vig where you can go 'oh, I'll not shoot obv scum because I can get a case later, and shoot the lurker instead.'

I believe Molla, oddly enough so far. I don't believe he and Max are part of the same faction, it wouldn't fit. They would have to know Toasty was going to out Max today, and then you're really talking Toasty, Max and BBMolla being all the same faction.

...That's stretching it for me.

[Ghostlin]

What if Max did roleblock BB, but they are both town, and there was only one night kill for another reason entirely?

I feel like a choir should be singing.

So yeah, anyway there is no CC here and I understand what BB is attempting to say.
Tl;DR: Don't lynch him tomorrow.

Anyone going

'Max is roleblocking scum

we'll lynch him but oh if he's telling the truth then BB is hinting at counterclaiming him we should lynch BB now' - put them on the death list.

I agree with the highlighted part of the sentence, but do not believe BB is scum due to the highlighted part of that sentence. They have nothing to do with each other.

[Ghostlin]

I don't understand why he would block BBmolla over DX if he felt DX was scummier, barring pressure from people in a society or mafia team.

Yosarian

Toasty

- hypothetically would

you

have sent DX out to make a night kill after Day 2?

This is WIFOM. Also, there are new fangled scum roles out there that have other things to do besides executing the Night Kill.

[Ghostlin]

To be quite honest, atm I don't think Max is scum.

Think about it logically guys, how many of you had a legit town read on me? Why would a scum roleblocker block me over someone much townier?

That doesn't make much sense.

I said I doubted the roleblock at first and have reasoning, but now it's possible but I have no way of knowing.

VOTE: David X

In my opinion, this is a better lynch guys. I think me and Max are both town.

Not really...I had a null and might of not blocked him. You're presuming that there's only two kinds of reads in this world: town and scum.

The bolded is actually a valid point.

[Ghostlin]

EBWOP: Not really, if I was a RB, I had a null and would of gone after someone else more scummy. You're presuming there's only two kinds of reads in this world and that scum teams don't ever send out scummy members to t'do the NK. This is why I called him on WIFOM eariler.

[Ghostlin]

Yeah, it's really obvious, like the most obvious thing in the world, that BB was saying 'I think he's town' not 'I think I'm town' by saying 'I think we're both town.' Scumpoints for anyone who tries to claim it's a 'slip.' Looking for 'slips' is like the most ineffective, semantic-lawyery, fake, scummy form of 'scumhunting' there is. It's like, even though there's an obvious town explanation that actually works better, you're trying to paint the player as scum so you twist his words.

This 110%

I agree with the above statement, although it changes nothing about my scumread on Max.

[Ghostlin]

To be quite honest, atm I don't think Max is scum.

Think about it logically guys, how many of you had a legit town read on me? Why would a scum roleblocker block me over someone much townier?

That doesn't make much sense.

I said I doubted the roleblock at first and have reasoning, but now it's possible but I have no way of knowing.

VOTE: David X



In my opinion, this is a better lynch guys. I think me and Max are both town.

Not really...I had a null and might of not blocked him. You're presuming that there's only two kinds of reads in this world: town and scum.

The bolded is actually a valid point.

You appear to have added an extra line to my quoted post. Mistake in quotes?

Yup. The additional stuff was mine. My apologies, Wraith.

[Ghostlin]

At this point, both Scum teams would know if BB is Town, and he's softclaimed a role.. realistically I see no reason not to have him fullclaim now.

Yet you didn't mention it at all. A simple mention of it would be enough, now you didn't do anything with it at all yet talked about other things, i.e. ignoring it.

- CS (like all posts since yesterday, forgot to tag them)

No. Ignoring it is not 'not talking about it.' Ignoring it is 'not paying it any attention.' By that logic, every time someone posts, they ignore every player they don't specifically mention.

Basically: I think you're chainsaw defending Sorgster. Your scummy use of the loaded term 'ignore' makes it sound like those there are actually good arguments against Max, that players are pretending they don't see so that they can push a counterwagon to save him. In fact, there aren't any good arguments against Max, and Sorgster is scummier for all the reasons I've mentioned.

You can't accuse someone of chainsaw defending without flips. Flip sorgster and then we'll talk about GW being scum. Otherwise, you're trying scum by association, and with 20 players left alive that's a horrible attempt at a scumtell. At least one of the reasons I'm accusing Max is over a player that's CONFIRMED to be scum.

Thing is, I've never played, but I've heard of you, so I'm wondering if

you don't know

what crappy logic this is. You shouldn't try a Chewbacca Defense on a public forum.

Fonz seems to have a fascinating habit of taking the words out of my mouth.

Btw: BBM is town and shouldn't be lynched, ever.

Max, even if he is a scum RB, is now incapable of blocking town-looking targets or claimed power (since he's trying to pretend to be town-RB) and has been outed as a threat to the 'other' scumgroup. If he's a town PR, either scumgroup will have reason to shoot him because he has the potential to do them significant harm with his action. Lynching him is unnecessary.

I can agree with the first part, or more to the point, out of his team (SS) of players, he's least likely to be scum. DX is most likely to be scum.

The last part is so horribad it gave me twitches just reading it. You're logically deducing that since Max --may be-- scum but we know his role we're safe from him? Toasty's power outed him, it didn't confirm he was telling the truth about BBMolla or EC. Scum may keep him around for maximum WIFOM purposes. At the best, this is a lazy train of thought, at worse, you're wanting us to drink toxic kool-aid.

Max, even if he is a scum RB, is now incapable of blocking town-looking targets or claimed power (since he's trying to pretend to be town-RB) and has been outed as a threat to the 'other' scumgroup. If he's a town PR, either scumgroup will have reason to shoot him because he has the potential to do them significant harm with his action. Lynching him is unnecessary.

Rly? Our scumgroups have had a great track record so far at getting rid of claimed PRs. Ghosty drew one of the most confirmable town PRs possible and is still alive on D3.

This is an awful reason to not lynch Max.

+1 For DY. I've wondered why I'm still alive more than once.

DY: I don't think that Ghostlin is really that much like Max.
Ghostlin is a claimed one-shot (and a vig can be no danger if manipulated), also they could have taught about somethink else that would make Ghostlin a less atrictive target. Also it is day 3, not a reason to lynch Max today. (One scumgroup should have a motive to kill him)
Fonz: Let's ask him post game.

Stefan: Never put off tomorrow what you can do today. We've got a strong, motivated wagon for a player who's anti-town and the biggest reason we're leaving him alone is that he --might-- be shot tomorrow. Emphasis on the word --might--.

tl;dr: The Fonz is more likely to be scum then when he started the day, the fact Wraith's agreeing with him is making me go with that null slot, and DY reinforces his town read.

Oh, and DX is rolefishing. Which should surprise no one.

[Ghostlin]

PV, in response to your post: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ect-kgxBb4M

[Ghostlin]

Ya. Sorgster definitely earns my vote on that mudslinging post.

One man's mudslinging is another man's valid point. You also just hammered him.

[Ghostlin]

Ya. Sorgster definitely earns my vote on that mudslinging post.

One man's mudslinging is another man's valid point. You also just hammered him.

Fuck are you serious? >_> Did he at least claim?

He did claim VT. Whisper voted him, putting him at 9 votes and L-2. The Fonz's secret vote was declared to be on him so he's at L-1 BEFORE your last post.

[Ghostlin]

Today, I never mentioned sorgster before voting Max. I voted Max because of Toasty's revelation

This is true, rereading your ISO. You do mention the fact that you find Sorg scummy in the next post, but you unvote Max rapidly after that. Then you have no vote until you revote Sorg for the end of the day.

I'm not entirely comfortable with your lack of much scumhunting or anything, and you'll be under the spotlight even more, but Fonz is throwing off scummy vibes right now, and if Sorg flips town, I know who I will probably be looking at Day 4.

[Ghostlin]

Bogre, I believe that Fonz not acutally placing his doublevote on sorgster when he said he did.

Reasons why the Fonz is scum:
1) Accuses GW of chainsawing for sorgster without a flip. You can't acutally use the 'lol, you're chainsawing' without a flip of the chainsawed or chainsawee.
2) Has now defended Jak (719), and Maxous (most of day 3).
3) #1099 is scummy and directly contradicts the hammer later.
4) The whole 'I'm so obvtown and your all retards' at the end of Day 3. Frankly, it's like a reverse AtE, trying to bully us into thinking he's town.
5) While I'm sure I'm going to get shouted down for this, there is one possible motive for his DV trick on sorgster at the end of the day that isn't town or null motivated; running down the clock and causing a mislynch.

Vote: The Fonz

[Ghostlin]

I don't get why you are talking about the The Fonz gambit when Oversoul voted for sorgster after already voting for him. So it didn't even matter where he had his secret vote.

- CS

Oh. OS voted twice? Then ignore #5. #1-4 are still valid then.

[Ghostlin]

Let's put 1 and 2 aside for a second, although as an quick addendum to 1; I will say it's about a 1000x times less accurate to claim someone of chainsawing without a flip one way or the other, and an argument you could use on anyone riding that opposing wagon.

First of all, you did insult the intelligence of town in 3, and that's what I'm refering to. Screaming 'hey, I'm town!' is an AtE. So...for the sake of argument of pulling off the AtE, I don't retract that argument.

I don't retract my argument to four, because it works on a WIFOMIC reasoning. A scum could declare his vote in thread while it's happening to earn free town points, and you only revealed the vote at the beginning of Day 2 after a townie was hung Day 1. It wouldn't necessarly be a huge stretch for scum to claim the vote for towncred. Also, I believe you're clever enough to pull it off.

Bluntly, just because I claimed EC Day 2 doesn't mean I'm town anymore than you advertising your secret vote in thread makes you town. You do somewhat have to approach it from motive. I think a scum motivated player had a lot to gain to claiming the secret vote when you did.

That said, I'm going to share my list of probable remaining scum.

For the Wolves: Fonz (I've already listed my reasoning), Wraith (most of Day 3 was sheeping the Fonz on why. If the Fonz is town, it's still very likely Wraith's scum), Whisper (her rather withdrawn style and her roulette of votes yesterday, more likely if Fonz is also a wolf), Bogre (his vote on sorgster kinda read like an OMGUS--sorg did have a point that you probably shouldn't be jumping on a wagon with scum on it, plus he kept his Max options open without acutally voting)

Other scum: DX (the AJ flip didn't change this. He's pretty damn scummy).

I'm going to be really blunt. One of my townflips flipped yesterday, and a lot of you are floating along in a sea of null. I don't have strong feelings about sorg or BB, for example.

[Ghostlin]

Ok. TT since you have pretty much claimed Voyeur, can I ask if you can see who a person targets? It's somewhat revelant to something I want to point out.

[Ghostlin]

Ok. TT since you have pretty much claimed Voyeur, can I ask if you can see who a person targets? It's somewhat revelant to something I want to point out.

I just looked it up and the official name is called a "follower," as I see their action but not what actions they are the target of.
No, I cannot see who a person targets.

Then we don't know with certainity if Max targetted BB.

[Ghostlin]

Yos: Since Alabaska flipped town, and with that the Secret Society of David, BBMolla and DavidX is confirmed (as a ss and not mafiacentral), there is actually no chance of David beeing a werewolf. This information that there were no werewolves in the group at the start of the game (for them modconfirmed) was out the whole day 3. If it was a lye Alabaska confirmed town would have reacted.

Keep in mind, this doesn't clear individual players of that society. AJ not flipping scum means it's not a Mafia gambit, not individual members could be Mafia. I think DX is the closest of the two to be Mafia, although his interactions with Max confused me somewhat.

[Ghostlin]

Because any player is going to double check before "taking the word" of another player, unless there is some ulterior motive. Anyone besides the mod tells me I'm lynched, I will be checking and double checking the votes to see for myself. Unless it's in my best interest not too. Like I want to to present a "townie looking death" when I'm not really dead.

WIFOM and trying too hard. Maybe Sorg missed the fact OS had voted before in the last count, even if he reposted it. Maybe he got caught up in the fact it was faux twilight and didn't bother to check. I didn't check when I posted that was the hammer.

[Ghostlin]

Loving how pretty much the case on me is "Is not a wolf, 50% chance of mafia then!" despite the roleblock on BB being on the same night as a missed kill..

Also, quality posts such as this which tell us exactly what you're thinking, doing, with rich analysis are helping the case against you.

[Ghostlin]

Seriously, can someone explain how that post of DX's could in any way be interpreted as showing insider knowledge? It completely escapes me.

Can't we just lynch him because he's being useless? Really, it's not like David's driven anything and his votes are opportunistic and scummy enough as it is.

[Ghostlin]

The David wagon based on the assumption that there has to be Mafia in the confirmed non-werewolves, and that the oh-so-logical target is the one who **wasn't** roleblocked on the night a kill failed...

Yeah. Smart. :rolleyes:

The fact you've been an opportunistic scumhole has nothing to do with your wagon. At all.

[Ghostlin]

Alrighty then. It's time to confirm what I've thought for three and a half days now.

Day 1: Refused to vote at the beginning of the game, makes throwaway vote at end of Day.

Day 2: Fluff. Votes Dry-Fit, and then jumps to hammer Jak wagon 'for the giggles.'

Day 3: Confirmation of BB's secret society, a lot of setup speculation that doesn't seem very helpful. Avoids the Max wagon.

Day 4: Some tart accusations that BB is more likely to be the scum out of the three of them (he's not voting him) tries to debunk his scumness by citing the roleblock. Hasn't voted yet.

Frankly, I support and approve a DX wagon.

Unvote.

Vote: DX

[Ghostlin]

Also, David, if you want to prove your town cred once and for all, could you be useful like create your reads and, I don't know...vote?

Everyone on this list needs to have votes placed: Not voting (5): whispersilk, Otolia, Oversoul, ToastyToast, David Xanatos

C'mon, kids, you've got to have a few scum suspects left at the Day 4 juncture.

[Ghostlin]

Wriath's FoS and Sorg's derp wagon read opportunistic scum to me, considering anyone with half a brain and five molecules in their body knew that Toasty already claimed his role. There was no reason for a Toasty jump, and considering Wraith, has spent Day 3 sheeping Fonz, he's already on the shit list. Sorg's jump makes it more likely we had our choice of scum yesterday.

Yeah, they go on the 'to die list'.

Ghostlin's improved list for Day 4:

Let The Bodies Hit The Floor:

DX (has spent too much time in this game already), Wraith (Day 3 sheeps of Fonz, limited posting most other days, that entirely derp FoS from information that would of taken three seconds to find in an ISO), Sorg (we might have not been wrong about Day 3...plus his vote echoing Wraith's FoS's seems to be almost ironic). The Fonz (I....yeah, we'lll just say that I don't disagree with my own case here, but I'll even concede he's not really a viable lynch today.)

Null:

I'm acutally not going to list you, but people like Borge, BBMolla go here, along with lurkermclurkingtons. Anyone not voting and named town or scum goes here, frankly, because I'm getting tired of low activity.

Like a Summer's Day:

TT (Frankly, he didn't have to claim or reveal his result, and the reason he did was TOWN, not SCUM.), GW (has played a pretty town game after fail Day 1 and was pretty much solely responsible for the Max lynch yesterday with his claim), SB (He's working it out. I acutally LIKE his list, and shows effort most scum wouldn't bother with).

[Ghostlin]

Are we going to wait for the deadline to lynch DX? That seems pointless.

+1.

[Ghostlin]

@David- your lack of response seems damning. Please respond to the votes on you.

He's not responded or helped all damn game. While I can appreciate the whole 'we need a defense from you', I don't think we should sit around and expect one in this case.

[Ghostlin]

In post 949, David Xanatos wrote:
There is if you don't have a means of communicating with your team and you think something's important. It occurs to me that a Scum group that had it's kill blocked would want rid of the Roleblocker before the next Night, where they could potentially do further damage..

Aside from the ridiculousness of this argument, it

appears

to be based on the premise that scum don't have daytalk, and we know they do. I see that as a strong town sign.

Emphasis on the word "appears". Fact is, this point is full of WIFOM, is easily findable in the rules:

1.This setup contains both Mafia and Werewolves.

a.They have daytalk.

And you've just admitted that David's entire ISO is in essence scummy (no firm stances, strawmanning his attacker, a lot of fluff posts). I'm not stretching here, you acutally say this and because he types out one boneheaded suggestion he's town? One that could of been typed a variety of ways under a variety of conditions?

[Ghostlin]

Please don't hammer until I get my reads into them. I know they are like 2 days past due, but I am doing them right now and I don't want it to all have been for nothing should I die tonight. :\ Although from what I have done so far BBmolla and DX are likely the two people I would be voting today anyway.

We've got a bankable deadline. We need those reads and your vote. Get on them.

[Ghostlin]

The fact I didn't know Scum had daytalk would likely be a rather glaring one, no?

And as for reads, GW, BBMolla, Otolia, Ghostlin are my top scum-picks.

....I want everyone in Town not on David's wagon to explain how half your reads being an apathetic OMGUS and sitting down until it blows over isn't the work of scum.

GW (Con), what did you mean by Otolia being a likely mislynch?

[Ghostlin]

Unvote
Vote Global warming

I'm assuming that's a scumslip and otolia actually isn't scum.

If we don't hang David, can we hang sorg, please?

[Ghostlin]

How would he claim otolia is a mislynch possibilities? Sounds like something he talked with his scumteam in night phase.

1) The scumteam have daytalk. Which means to me you're not paying attention to the gamestate, because this is the second time I've mentioned it, along with a host of others. Which is leading credence to the fact that the scum is getting the hang of if they malprop night talk enough times some player might clear them.
2) I want clarification from GW (Con), but I suspect Otolia's a mislynch candidate mostly because he's a scummy looking enough player that GW suspects he's Town; also reread Day 1.
3) Your vote seems horribly opportunistic; and I think isn't enough credit for GW's combined hydra intelligence.

[Ghostlin]

comment on Dry-Fit wagon ASAP.

Can you stop trying to stir things up when you could just post your opinions on Dry-Fit, and sorgster to a lesser extent. The latter being the horrible player he is we might have to take him down soon but today isn't the day for that.

Dry-Fit's a null to me personally. There are certain posts in his ISO that make it seem like he's scumhunting, but it's rather lazy in a way that he seems to like to tunnel you a lot. Tunnelling itself is not scummy tho', and I'm not your biggest fan either. His DX jump reads to me as a 'well, this is not going to work, so let's jump to someone I find scummy.'

Besides he's not the most hellicously active player, what's the acutal case on him?

Sorgster reads like opportunistic scum ball more and more, but it looks like we're not lynching him today. I'd rather lynch him over Dry-Fit by a longshot.

[Ghostlin]

Oversoul: Well for David to be a werewolf, both he and BBMolla have to be lying since nearly the beginning of day 3.
AlabaskaJ a confirmed town, stood there and did nothink. (One word of him would have been enough)
And both David and BBMolla would have to predict that/risk it, that Alabaska kills them with one very small post.
Not proven 100%, but very difficult to pull of.

If I have to switch Sorgster hurts a lot, still the question is that normal Sorgster? Please NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

Why would you switch off the leading wagon, at L-3 with 25 hours left?

[Ghostlin]

Vote Count 4.9

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

David Xanatos (6): StefanB, Empking's Alt, BBmolla, Ghostlin, Global Warming, Dry-fit
Dry-fit (4): The Fonz, Yosarian2, Wraith, Otolia

sorgster (2): ToastyToast, Bogre

Oversoul (1): PeregrineV

Global Warming (1): sorgster

Not voting (3): whispersilk, Oversoul, David Xanatos

Deadline is November 18th, at 7:00pm EST.
Countdown to deadline:

(expired on 2011-11-18 19:00:00)

If you're in bold, you need to vote or your vote needs to move. If we lynch Dry-Fit today, so be it, as long as it's not a no-lynch.

[Ghostlin]

Why was peregrine not bolded?

#1386 happened before #1389 in the timeline of this game. Having read the thread before reposting the vote count and bolding it, I disincluded PV for what he had already done.

Or you can read Empking's post and keep it close to your heart. Whatever floats your boat.

We have a day still.

Also

Unvote
Vote David X

...Do the words 'bankable deadline' mean anything to you and the fact we have a week only from here on out if we bank nothing?

[Ghostlin]

VOTE: Dry Fit

As far as I'm concerned, BB is ConfScum now.

Why? How?

Under what logic?

Are the rest of you guys on Dry-Fit's wagon reading the same thread I am?

[Ghostlin]

Everyone: DX is at L-1. DF is at L-2. Prevent no-lynch.

[Ghostlin]

I'm A-OK with crosskills. If the Mafia and Werewolves want to eliminate each other, more power to the both of you.

Emp, I believe you're town, but I'd personally perfer:

Vote: Sorg

Useless and scummy. Uselessly scummy. Scum without use.

[Ghostlin]

Emp, I get what you mean, but this post just read opportunistic crap for me:

Unvote
Vote Global warming

I'm assuming that's a scumslip and otolia actually isn't scum.

Also, if he acutally

believed

this post, he wouldn't be voting Oto now.

At this point, I'd vote for Dry-Fit if that's the competing wagon. I'd love to have a Wraith competing wagon.

[Ghostlin]

Do you guys think there are more werewolves?

Let's see. 25 player game; it depends if you think 6, 7, or 8 total scum is the most balanced thing. I almost think we can eliminate the 7 scum possibility, which would indicate a SK in the setup; and we've never had more than 2 kills at night. So the setup is either 19:3:3, or 17:4:4. If it's the first, it's mafia hunting time, if it's the second, then we've got 1 werewolf running around somewhere. I don't think it's 15:5:5; somehow that seems like a good way for town to get overrun quickly.

[Ghostlin]

Okay, never mind then.

Molla: who do you think is scum? And why are you so concerned over Werewolf vs. Mafia?

[Ghostlin]

EoD vote counts (includes the dead); more analysis in next post:

Day 1:

IceGuy

(12):

Maxous

, Global Warming,

TheJakalope

, StefanB,

EtherealCookie

, sageamagoo, BBmolla,

MagnaofIllusion

,

Oversoul

, Yosarian2,

zMuffinMan

,

David Xanatos

sageamagoo (5):

DarthYoshi

, Bogre, Ghostlin, PeregrineV, [/color]IceGuy
Otolia (3): sorgster, Dry-fit, Baby Spice
Baby Spice (2):

Alabaska J

, Wraith
StefanB (1): Otolia

MagnaofIllusion

(1): ToastyToast
sorgster (1): whispersilk

Day 2:

TheJakalope

(12): Global Warming, Ghostlin, StefanB, Otolia,

DarthYoshi

,

Oversoul,

Alabaska J,

Maxous

, sorgster, Bogre, ToastyToast,

David Xanatos

Dry-Fit (5): BBmolla, The Fonz, Yosarian2, Empking's Alt,

zMuffinMan

BBmolla (3): Wraith, Dry-fit, PeregrineV

Alabaska J (1)

:

TheJakalope

Not voting (1): whispersilk

Day 3:

Maxous (10)

: Ghostlin, Global Warming, ToastyToast,

DarthYoshi

, Empking's Alt,

Alabaska J

, PeregrineV, sorgster, The Fonz, StefanB
sorgster (7): Bogre,

Maxous

, Yosarian2, BBmolla, Wraith, whispersilk,

Oversoul

BBmolla (2): David Xanatos, Otolia
Otolia (1): Dry-fit

Day 4:

David Xanatos

(9): StefanB, Empking's Alt, BBmolla, Ghostlin, Global Warming, Dry-fit, sorgster, Bogre, Wraith
Dry-fit (5): The Fonz, Yosarian2, Otolia, PeregrineV, David Xanatos
sorgster (1): ToastyToast
Not voting (2): whispersilk,

Oversoul

[Ghostlin]

Errors:
Day 1: There's an Iceguy that should be green.
Day 2: Alabaska J should be green, not red. (Sorry AJ, if you're reading this from Good Town Heaven. aka the dead thread)
Day 3-4: A DX should be green.

Analysis: I'm glad I did this VCA, because I'm seeing the following patterns that are making me have OSHI- moments like the moment your head hits the windshield in a car crash.

The following people were on Day 1 and 2 vote counts together: Max, Oversoul. Both of these players flipped scum.
The following people have only not voted Day 3 (after the guilty) together: Yosarian2 and The Fonz
After Day 2, the following people have been voting together: GW and Ghostlin
The following person has been on EVERY LYNCH THIS GAME: StefanB

The following people from my counts are more likely to be in the scum tier this game: Yos, Fonz, Stefan. I know what happened Day 2 that synched my votes with GW's and that's their call if they want to share.

[Ghostlin]

With that in mind, I release the Ghostlin list, Day 4, edition:

Out of the Dryer:

TT, GW

Clothes Worn Once:

Most of the game, but I'm wondering at this point if Sorg shouldn't go here. Dry-Fit's already here for me.

Dirty Laundry:

From VCA: Yos2 (particularly if the next person I mention flips scum), Fonz (plus my case Day 4, he'd be on this list anyway), StephanB (wait. You've been on four lynch wagons. FOUR. That's stretching my length of coindence here.)

From general scuminess: Sorg (fairly useless player, but the DX debacle and the VCA has shaken my faith a bit), Wraith (generally agrees with Fonz, a few really, really scummy posts).

[Ghostlin]

Mod: Announcing V/LA Thanksgiving weekend 24-27th Nov; my birthday and convention are happening that weekend. I may post, but it'll be spordaic.

[Ghostlin]

Vote: Dry-Fit

Should have done this yesterday. DX was a bad wagon. I need to look at it, but I get the feeling scum was on early rather than late - there's no discernable attempt to swing the lynch away from Dry-Fit late on.

Ghostlin, voting together simply isn't a scumbuddy tell. Putting my secret vote on.

Alright. While you and I can play pingpong about my read about you and Yos, what do you think of StefanB?

[Ghostlin]

@Ghostlin: Do you find Stefan's being on every lynch scummier than Wraith's being on every lynch except the scum one?

Probably not. Although Wraith in general, to me, has read many flavors of scum.

[Ghostlin]

@BBmolla : Claim your full role (not the society one) with the actions you performed all the nights whether or not you were roleblocked (not the society ones).

No one really wants to hang him him today, having not gained a single vote, and he's not at L-1. We're not at a situation where fullclaim would be useful. Granted, birds should be all over him with the breadcrumbs he's left, but I'll oppose any mention of silliness of anyone who's not on the block full claiming at this point.

[Ghostlin]

And bringing this up only after Ghostlin tagged Yos as a scum candidate, having not mentioned Yos before (which if 'He's been scummy' you'd have thought you'd have done). It seems to me like scum have probably been prioritising crosskills.

Do you think I'm scummy, because this sentence read really weird on a second read through.

[Ghostlin]

Vote:Dry-fit

We should have lynched this guy yesterday. I really have no idea why we lynched David X instead, unless that was a scum-driven counterwagon to protect Dry Fit.

Who is the scum driving DF's wagon and why? You can't just make a statement like that and expect us to all on the DF wagon.

Vote: sorgster

I'd really, really, really like to see this scumbag hang today, please.

...And your vote makes me question why I'm on this wagon. Fonz--if you're wondering about my Wraith read, it's posts like this.

Vote: Otolia

.

Can't believe this guy is still alive.

My second suspect is yos.

I would expect him to have been killed by now if he was town and he's been scummy anyways.

Adding to what you said Fonz I think it's weird that GW and Toasty haven't been killed either.

What's your case on Otolia? How do you feel about Sorgster? The bolded is WIFOM, and horrible WIFOM at that.

You're an acceptable lynch today from what I've seen so far. You've not posted anything that's given me a reaction either way.

[Ghostlin]

2. BBMolla : When you are in a neighborhood with someone you have the possibility to obtain information that the rest of the town cannot. Among BBmolla, David Xanatos and Alabaska none of them could be werewolves, however and that's a bit of metagaming, a scum was likely to be there. Considering both of the other have been lynched or died, it leaves us with a very suspect BBmolla.

Horrible crap logic. Not to say BBMolla --isn't-- Mafia, and we've all kind of eagerly been prodded this way, some of us with less an honorable intentions but I just realized what bugs me about the scenario.

Let's say I was a Cop. Not a Seer, but a Cop. (I'm not, this is hypothesis.) Players A, B and C all turn up innocent. I then announce to the thread, in a drunken overstated idea of my superiority, that I know A, B and C cannot, with almost a 100% certainty, be mafia.

This only leaves three threads for Town to follow:
1) One or more of the players, but not all of them are werewolves.
2) None of the players are werewolves.
3) All of the players are werewolves.

Now, if A and B both flip Town, it only leaves us with 1 and 2 being the possibilities. In no way should we suspect 1 is true, and it would, in fact, not necessarily be logical and something scum might exploit to get another lynch.