A Christmas Story - Game Over

[mathcam]

Hm...so d8P was a doc-protect? Or maybe there's some side-effect of being beat up that we don't know about?

Cam

[mathcam]

Somebody didn't do their homework...

Cam

[mathcam]

I didn't know what a PBPA was either. So ha!

Cam

[mathcam]

Well, good enough defense for me. You have to admit it's a lot more coherent and less whiny than most. I'd like to reward that kind of behavior.

Unvote: Scalebane, Vote: Shadyforce

Going after lurkers.

Cam

[mathcam]

Agreed. They're hardly page-long and they're hardly pointless. He was attacked and he defended himself...admirably at that.

Unvote: Shadyforce

Vote: Bunsofsteel

for eating "a hotdog with catsup, mustard, and cheeeeeeeeeese" last Wednesday.

Cam

[mathcam]

Yes, let the buns talk.

Ace Ventura: Pet Detective suddenly sprung to mind. How unfortunate.

Cam

[mathcam]

Indeed.

Unvote: BunsOfSteel, Vote: Untrod

Cam

[mathcam]

I agree with Thoth on two points:

a) You people voting for him are crazy.
b) Scalebane made a suspicious post.

There's a lot more to go on than just that, though, so I'm noting that in my "suspicions for later" file with a

FOS: Scalebane

and going back to read day 1.

Cam

[mathcam]

Ah, the occasional CS mental breakdown. As amusing as it its bewildering. Someone should do a study.

Stewie, I think you're a little paranoid from last game. I doubt there's dealyed recruiting, if there's even recruiting at all. I doubt MeMe would use many similar roles in two consecutive games with many of the same players. But then again, maybe she would. It would certainly make for some itneresting meta-gaming.

i really liked Quailman's idea that getting beat up was being targeted by a role-blocker. That seems very likely to me.

I'll

Unvote: Scalebane

, though it would certainly be interesting if the main character was intentionally left out of the game and set aside as a "safe role claim" for the mafia.

Cam

[mathcam]

I think it's very clear that CS recognizes this and has simply decided to lose his mind. Why? I have no idea.

Vote: lemuel

Cam

[mathcam]

If I pulled such stunts in another game, would I be lynched? Most certainly.

I agree. Almost certainly. It's a de facto perk from being around for a long time is that other players will recognize some of your posting idiosyncrasies. It's not that I'm writing off Anti-christmas behavior, it's that I don't think CS was exhibiting anti-Christmas behavior. He was looking at all sides of the picture, which he is wont to do, and because I know he is wont to do this, I cut him some slack.

I have no idea whether CS is evil or not, but I hardly think he would post in such a way if he were evil unless he would have done exactly the same if he were good.

Cam

[mathcam]

Unvote: lemuel, Vote: bloojay

Something about his first post today struck me as suspicious. That, and that was hsi

only

post, so he's essentially lurking. I think he's the only person I have over the neutral level of suspicion line. I've got a bunch of people who I think are probably innocent, but no one I think is probably guilty. That doesn't make for good voting, unfortunately.

Cam

[mathcam]

mathcam: my second hunch. There's something about his posts that doesn't ring true... almost as if he's using dry wit (and CS's weird sense of humor) to fill posts so he can say he's been active without actually saying anything of meaning (no offense, Cam ).

None taken. I don't think this game has been different from any others, though...in any case, doing as such was not intentional.

Are you now un-grounded, bloojay?

Cam

[mathcam]

Well, I can't say I agree with Dour's hunches, and it's quite possible that CS voting for me actually clears me in some people's eyes...and after all I've done sticking up for you....

Blookay's posted (basrely), and though I can see suspicions of Scalebane still, I can't believe lynching him right now is the best way to go about it, so I'll

Unvote: bloojay, Vote: Stewie

.

I would like bloojay to come back in to the game, however.

Cam

[mathcam]

I hear ya, Fishbulb. But it was kind of like a neat and tiny mini-thread that got opened and closed while the weekend went by. So I feel I don't really have to comment on it.

I think CS definitely has a point about not assuming too much into the goodness on the badness of roles just based on who they are, but it is farily clear that this is pro-christas vs. anti-christmas. On the other hand, I highly suspect that alignment-switching is present in the game.

I have no idea why I voted Stewie, but I'm pretty sure it was for reasons more valid than my post made it out to be. I hate it when I don't write things down. So

Unvote: Stewie

.

Well, I'm between mathcam and Fletcher right now.

Yeah, me too.

Vote: Fletcher

Cam

[mathcam]

He's also been rebearded.

Cam

[mathcam]

I too am suspicious of people on the Rite bandwagon. If only Fletcher were there so I could be double happy...hmmm...oh well. My vote'll stay for now.

Cam

[mathcam]

I wouldn't worry about it, Scale. I think most of us have been subject to a Dour rant at one time or another. But Dour did make some good points. Why keep your vote on CS if you admit that you don't have much of an argument for it? And, again as Dour points out, you aren't cleared. But for Dour to say you haven't "added anything useful to the game" is simply not true, and I don't think anyone but Dour thinks that.

ANd once again, just because my play style sucks to you, Dour, and just because I am full of crap doesn't mean I am mafia.

And don't forget that to us, just because you're self-deprecating doesn't mean you're innocent. But I'm becoming more and more convinced of the veracity of your role claim.

So my vote stays on Fletcher.

Cam

[mathcam]

Well, Scalebane, there's a difference between disregarding your results and taking them with a grain of salt. If you

are

insane, then you still have good information. Disregarding it would be silly. If you're paranoid, it's another thing. But given that we don't know which of these is true, we still have a slightly better chance that buns, Stewie, and CS are good than someone picked at random.

Cam

[mathcam]

I'm starting to buy Lemuel's argument.

If CS no longer has a special ability, why would he still need to alliterate?

And the role-block coninciding with a lack of death is definitely a strong hint.

Plus, though I appreciate CS's approach of attempting to view all angles, trying to imply that Ralphie and other pro-Christmas people are anti-town is a stretch, in my opinion.

Between all this and just being confusing to read, I'm gonna

Vote: Cuban Smoker

.

Cam

[mathcam]

Role blocking is not good for the town until the late stages of the game.

I'm not sure I agree. On the face of it, you get the plus of maybe stopping an evil-doer from killing, but the minus of maybe stopping a cop or doc. This alone might suggest role-blocking isn't good at the start. But there's the

added

bonus that if a kill is stopped, the role-blocker has helped isolate a potential candidate for evil. In this case, yourself.

ALSO, IF the above is true, when d8p was attacked on night 1, a member of the Mafia, why were there 2 kills?

Quite likely, the mafia have to choose whom among them has to kill each night. This is the only way I can see to use role-blockers with mafia. Plus, if you

are

evil, I'd peg you more as the lone serial killer type rather than a working-with-others evil type.

Cam

[mathcam]

Okay, so Scalebane and I have switched positions on CS.

This argument holds no water.

I'm not sure which argument you're referring to, CS. It seems to me that if all evil were serial killers then this would

strengthen

my contention that a role-block coninciding with a lack of kill increases the odds of the blockee being a killer. But nonetheless,

come on

. If there was a solitary disillusionment mafiaperson, they would have been called a serial killer, not a mafia, unless MeMe's just trying to mess with us. (Admittedly possible). Especially given the quantity of characters that help disillusion ralphie...but then again, I personally might have pegged the store santa as a disillusionment factor. Hmm.

I appreciate the desire to question

everything

, but that's a little far, no?

Cam

[mathcam]

Why isn't as simple as "There are various killing groups (or rather, disillusioning, killing, etc.). Some times their roles have been blocked. Sometimes the docs have gotten lucky. Maybe some times they haven't met some posting condition they need to activate their ability."? If we buy this, then of course the fact that you being blocked coincided with a no-kill isn't proof that you're evil. But it often works.

I don't know what to think about Demeech. I'll keep thinking.

Cam

[mathcam]

I didn't understand this from before...if you lost your role when your posting weirdness was revealed, why did you continue to post weird? And why have you now stopped?

Cam

[mathcam]

I have this nagging feeling that Demeech is innocent, as scummy as he's acting.

I think I can prove I'm not the one doing the killings. Whoever beat me last night can beat me again. Let's pretend that blocks my supposed role. Then we watch people die. I willing to bet my life there will be two kills tomorrow.

I was tempted to unvote CS as well until this post came along. Why would you make this bet, CS? Why wouldn't one of the killing groups simply not kill knowing that if they don't, you'll get killed the next day. Of course, if you were town, you would have considered this and not made such a bet. I suspect you're actually part of a killing group that gets to choose who does the killing. Tonight you'll just have someone else in the group do the killing. This is the only way I can see you making that bet.

Confirm Vote: CS.

Cam

[mathcam]

Oh come on, bloojay. You really think Lemuel's scum? Or are you just jumping off the bandwagon because CS was starting to insult you?

Tree salesman is a believable role, and frankly, I can't imagine it being anti-town. The guy in the movie was a little shady but certainly helped the family get a little closer to Christmas.

Unvote: CS

,

though I do have to object to your tone. It is no way clear to me (and, apparently, others) that you are innocent. There have been many suspect actions from you this game, and for you to blast off (with obscenity, I might add) on those who haven't seen your role PM is, quite frankly, obnoxious. I'm tempted to leave my vote on just so I don't reward that kind of behavior. Unfortunately, my desire to win outwieghs my desire to spite people, and the fact that your role claim makes me believe you means I have to go with the former.

Cam

[mathcam]

I'd say that the percentage is about:
Lemuel reasons-85%
CS's insults-15%

Okay, good enough.

What the heck?

Vote: Demeech

Cam

[mathcam]

Yes.

Cam

[mathcam]

Well, he's said lots of things. They just haven't been very convincing. But I'll concede that it was obliviousness that had me put on the last vote, not a steadfast argument that he was guilty.

Cam

[mathcam]

I don't think that goes on the record, actually....

Cam

[mathcam]

CS, you bastard.

Cam

[mathcam]

It does seem that way, and now that it's out, it doesn't seem all that surprising that Ralphie thinks that everyone's out to ruin Christmas for him. Maybe instead of paranoid, there's just a list that MeMe has of people that will look guilty to you, and people that won't. That way Ralphie's friends look good to him, but everyone else doesn't. I don't know.

Anyone else have news to share?

Cam

[mathcam]

Ha ha, I said what you said before you.

Cam

[mathcam]

Stewie, the only think I remember about Aunt Clara was that she was sent him a pink bunny suit for Christmas. Raplhie hated the suit but was made to wear it, albeit temporarily. I'd lean towards calling her anti-town, but I'm having a tough time reading which characters MeMe is making evil.

The fact that you got a note about it makes me slighlty more convinced that this character is good.

Cam

[mathcam]

Hey, I just noticed that Quailman's "Classroom teacher" isn't the same as "townie." The only "townie" we've had is Stewie 1's Higbee Store Santa. That's kind of weird....it makes me wonder if there isn't another "classroom" role out there to go along with the snitch and the teacher.

And I just looked over the revealed roles again...it's looking more and more to me like Aunt Clara's good, so I wouldn't reveal who it is.

Cam

[mathcam]

I think people voting for Lemuel are crazy. I think he made excellent analysis with respect to CS, and now I think he's made a great point with respect to Aunt Clara. I had forgotten we had already seen the deranged bunny in a mod post.

Also, I am reasonably confident that Stewie is, in fact, Aunt Clara.

Vote: Stewie

Cam

[mathcam]

I wish Rite were more active in this game...I just saw him post elsewhere, and he hasn't posted here since the beginning of the day.

All this explanation was to question why you are so "confident" that I am aunt clara.

Well, I have one very good reason, and here it is: I can't tell you. Damn! I realize this is a major blow to my argument, but you'll just have to have faith, people.

Cam

[mathcam]

Very bizarre. I guess I'll have to rescind my "reaonably confident" then. But seeing that there's a good chance Clara is evil, I can't think of a reason not to reveal then.

Cam

[mathcam]

Any comment, indentureddjinn?

Thoth, I don't think it's universal agreement, but there is an embarassment mafia, and Aunt Clara's sole role (as far as I remember) in the movie was to cause embarassment. A coincidence? I think not.

Cam

[mathcam]

I'll wait for ID. ID, either say:

a) I am not Aunt Clara.

OR

b) I am Aunt Clara but I'm not evil. You should believe this because _____.

Cam

[mathcam]

Me

stepping on

your

toes? I envision it more like the two of us running down the street, you behind me, and I stop to say something, and you come crashing into me.

Cam

[mathcam]

Excellent. This is exactly the type of claim I was looking for. Randy is Ralphie's brother and almost certainly

a) In this game, and
b) Pro-town.

Stewie is Aunt Clara. Unless there's a remarkable argument against Lemuel's case of why Aunt Clara should be evil, then I think we should lynch Stewie.

Cam

[mathcam]

(Unless someone else is Randy, in which case they should come forward ASAP)

[mathcam]

Care to explaim why would I say my own role in the first post in the day, saying that someone else posseses it?

I sure would, but I can't. And by the way you phrased that sentence, it sounds like you too know that I can't. I think you guys are just going to have to trust me on this one.

My vote happily stays.

Cam

[mathcam]

If you have some inside information, mathcam, I'd love to hear it. If it's just a wild hunch, I think I'll pass on voting on him, though. Scum could easily use a hunch to get a lynch and then just say "Sorry, was just a hunch". There's gotta be more for me to join in on this.

And I'd love to say it. It's not a wild hunch, but I'm not going to lie. There's a possibility I'm wrong. Or at least, there was this possibility at the start of the argument. But since then, there's been a plethora of reasons piled on top of the reasons I can't tell you for voting Stewie.

1) He claimed to have a note which said that ID was Aunt Clara, which he is almost certainly not.

2) Just look at Stewie's posts. The phrasing is almost never "I am not Aunt Clara, therefor you are wrong." It's instead "Your claim is unbelievable because ____". Unbelievable? If he were actually someone other than Aunt Clara, wouldn't he be more adamant that my claim was

false

, rather than simply unbelievable?

3) Yet one more reason I can't tell you. Damn!

So to answer bloojay:

unvote lemuel, FOS Stewie
Mathcam seems to be pretty sure, but just HOW sure?

At the beginning of the day, 70%. Now, 92.7%. Nah, make it 97.6%.

I realize that I am not a known innocent, and that you have no direct reason to believe me. Maybe between the two statements above and the phony role claim that Stewie's about to give will convince you.

Stewie?

Cam

[mathcam]

There's too many people left for me to be going for a free lynch, the wording

does

matter, as it always does in mafia games, you've made no "solid argument," and rolling your eyes enough will just make you dizzy. It won't stop you from being scum.

If anyone else has questions for me, I'd be happy to elucidate.

Cam

p.s. You can't claim once you're lynched.

[mathcam]

Well, I certainly won't take offense if you don't believe me, but you gotta pick one side or the other. Stewie is as evil as the day is long.

Cam

[mathcam]

Much like in Holy Grail, I think we should all make a pact to play this game 24/7 until it's done. Who's with me? This is very exciting.

Cam

p.s. Sorry Fishbulb.

[mathcam]

To clarify: Not a hunch, not a hunch, not a hunch.

I know for a fact that either he's Aunt Clara or he's lying about receiving a note. I know that the former is much more likely, but even if he's lying, well, he's lying. I appreciate a healthy dose of skepticism, Fishbulb, but just look at Stewie's posts since the start of the day. Even if you didn't believe me, they just ring of evilness.

Cam

[mathcam]

Ah, an easy question. Because [censored]. Sorry. Sigh.

But you might ask the same question about me: Why would I go on this anti-Stewie rampage if I didn't have a darn good reason? And I think it would be relatively difficult to construct a scenario where I was evil and would have good reason to do this.

Cam

[mathcam]

Sorry for the double post: Fishbulb makes a very good point. If someone else has received a note of the kind that Stewie is describing, I may have to re-evaluate my stance. I suspect that this is not the case, however.

Cam

[mathcam]

*does the humpty dance*

Evil Stewie is dead. Interesting.

Cam

[mathcam]

I was blocked last night by someone, so I didn't get any results. I did ping Fishbulb, though, so there might be some connection there.

Weird, who would block a cop? It seems like either

a) They didn't believe you (but should now as there were still two kills), or
b) It was the doing of an evil force.

We'll have to be wary of role-blocker claims in the future.

Cam

[mathcam]

I think lemuel is the only one among those who haven't claimed that I think is probably innocent.

Cam

[mathcam]

[quote="Thoth"]mathcam Ã

[mathcam]

Indentureddjinn and Fishbulb have yet to post today.

Cam

[mathcam]

Head elf

does

seem kind of weak...a minor character who's an assistant to another minor character, no powers claimed...hmmm....

I think he was weak on the CS bandwagon, though many of us were too. Still, it seems like the best shot today.

Vote: bloojay

Cam

[mathcam]

Well, I certainly don't feel as strongly about bloojay as you do about lemuel, Thoth, but lemuel

was

instrumental in getting Stewie lynched. If I hadn't been convinced that Aunt Clara was evil, I wouldn't have revealed my information about Stewie.

I still don't find lemuel suspicious. Honeslty, I think DS is second most suspicious in my book. If bloojay turns out to be good, I'm going to be looking hard in his direction.

Cam

[mathcam]

Hold on a minute. I might have some information. I've got think about it for a few minutes. I'll post again in an hour or so. No one role claim until then.

Cam

[mathcam]

A scum might propose a role claim if he's sure of a safe claim.

Still working...

Cam

[mathcam]

Plus, don't forget we've got all kinds of other roles out there. There's people silencing or de-voting or beating people up most nights as well. I'm not sure what any of that means, though role-blocking was a pretty good guess. Hmmm...the possibility that I was role-blocked is a big detriment to my ability to make decisions. Anyone want to fess up to blocking me?

Cam

[mathcam]

So I was

was

role-blocked last night, but not the night before, right?

Fishbulb, what was your punishment? Or can you not say? Or do you have no idea what I'm talking about?

Cam

[mathcam]

p.s. I

did

post again an hour after that request....I just needed more information before I could use any of my information.

Cam

[mathcam]

*sniff* Goodbye, cruel world.

Cam

[mathcam]

Ah, only one day away from living through the game. Fishbulb, you bastard! At least I made you say poop a lot. Mwa ha ha ha ha!!!

Cam

[mathcam]

Yeah, I was confused by Thoth's post. I concluded he had to be Mr. Parker. (except he spelled it wrong...was that intentional?) And then Fishbulb missed his dare, too...there were a lot of ways I could come to wrong conclusions, so I just didn't come to any. I really hadno suspicion that Thoth was evil until the role was revealed. But I'm pretty happy about Lemuel...I was pretty sure of his innocence for a long time.

Oh, so you guys didn't know what the penalty was? Fishbulb, I thought for sure you guys were going to starting taking the penalty of not doing the dare, but inserting someone else's role name in your first post. Then I would have been probably convinced of your innocence. (Though I guess this isn't true...it took some convincing for me to even go after Stewie once he revealed he was Aunt Clara).

I was surprised the store santa wasn't disillusionment mafia.

Cam

[mathcam]

Well, my penalty essentially

was

death if I explained your behavior, but I guess I managed to get the rest of the thread to trust me in enough to kill you. Mwa ha ha.

Cam

[mathcam]

Ditto on the goodness of Lemuel.

mathcam deserves a lot of credit for figuring out a way to use the dares to benefit the town.

Thanks, by the way. I knew there had to be something better than focing DPto make Star Wars references....

Cam

[mathcam]

Exactly.

Cam