Flame Warriors U-Pick; Troll wins it for his team!

[Duplicity]

Just about to head out to a poker tournament but should be back later today. Setup wise I'm leaning towards this likely being a 4 scum and one third party setup with heavy amounts of power roles. Reasoning behind why can be explained if needed but most of it is Slaxx-hosting-meta-related. Right now I have a few weak town reads but no real scum reads and I want to have a discussion with Gorilla before I consider outting those. I think I know who Mystery Head is and believe they're town so the voting on them should stop, similarly the Shadow Dancer case is incredibly weak and although I love the initiative of trying to push out of RVS piling votes on him isn't the right way of doing it.

The U-Pick claiming is sub-optimal, the choices that people made are not related to their alignment at all since they were picked previously meaning reasoning behind the choices or the choices themselves will garner us no real information. Sure it may lock scum into a selection of four potential roles but at the same time as seen in Any Band mafia will just be claiming their own abilities as town abilities and thus discussion on whether we should claim now needs to cease.

Also can the quote walls stop pretty please.

[Duplicity]

The post restriction conversation and focus needs to be dialed down because right now it's overpowering any real scumhunting discussion though with that said I'm fairly sure I know who is what personality right now but see no real advantage in announcing them publicly and request that anyone else who has also worked them out does the same. Also for the love of god the quote walling needs to stop.

I have relatively strong town-reads on Hoppster, ShadowDancer and Killerjester and weaker town-reads on Tragedy, Oversoul and CATFISH right now though I know that Gorilla disagrees with my SD town-read. I'm not liking Gaoth and Scumhunters earlier posts but I know they both have a tendency to struggle in the RVS period of the game regardless of his alignment so I'm happy to give them some time to settle in.

Sir Bastions posts reads like he's trying to foist suspicion onto Etherealcookie but it's weak as hell and he uses weasel words without calling him outright scummy. It looks like he is testing the waters to see if anyone is willing to vote him without actually sticking his neck out and making an attack. Furthermore his fencesitting and unvote on ShadowDancer while stating that he's not town looks like scum leaving options open later.

Vote: Sir Bastion

@Ｇaoth

- What in particular did you find scummy about my previous post and why didn't you change your vote to me because of it?

[Duplicity]

Ethernalcookie is null right now, if he were a town-read of ours we'd have stated so. You're not questioning Ethernal, if you were that would be understandable but you're stating actions he's done and how you find them suspicious in a manner where you're appealing to other people to vote him rather than voting him, that's not reaction testing him that's bandwagon fishing.

@ CATFISH -

Although some posting restrictions are able to be worked out claiming them is idiotic because claiming posting restrictions is essentially claiming the U-Pick you were given which also means letting mafia know what role possibilities you have. Also SD and Tragedy are both town.

[Duplicity]

We have to give a protip in our first post every Day.

Since you've already claimed it do you want to explain why you didn't do this then?

[Duplicity]

@ CATFISH -

My town-read on SD revolves around his reaction to the bandwagon on him and towards Mystery Account posting. My town-read on Tragedy is mostly meta related, her scum play is almost the polar opposite of her town play and makes her easily readable late into D1 or sometimes even earlier though to be fair I just re-read her ISO and my town-read on her is declining in strength. Also if you don't mind can you state your read on Bastion please?

@ Bastion -

Your questioning of Cookie in Post #78 is about post restrictions and doesn't assist you in attaining a read on him at all, in fact it does and adds nothing. If you had a 'confused' read on him you should be asking something actually alignment related. The post where you quote discussed all of Cookies posting is pure IoA, your conclusion is highly noncommittal and really again doesn't add anything whatsoever.

@ Gaoth -

Considering you stated that I was playing to my town-meta throughout majority of Apolocptic Mafia where I was actually mafia I'm curious to how you think my last post resembled my scum meta.

[Duplicity]

@Duplicity: Yeah, looks like I was right, wasn't I? I'm gonna be honest. I underestimated you, and (nearly) paid the price

. I'm not gonna call you out on my meta read

, since I did that last game and allowed scum to play me into their hands.

@Duplicity:

Your first post read like scumreg.

I wanted more posts before i laid a vote down. that is all.

I understand you may be paranoid of me after our last game but can you please explain the bolded along with what about my first post you found similar to regscum.

[Duplicity]

We need to keep the activity up to a high level otherwise the battery is going to deadline us way too soon. With the exception to the Primate wagon which is understandable but not amazing I'm not liking any of the leading wagons right now. Hoppsters enthusiasm and push to get us out of the RVS period reads town as does SDs active scumhunting and questioning of other players rather than latching onto one of the many bandwagons or reacting violently.

Gorilla and I have a slight disagreement on Bastion right now but both of us are still content on keeping our vote on him. He's continuing to ask meaningless questions to seem active while also excusing is illogical play as 'reaction tests' which is what I did in Apocolpytic Mafia as scum.

Right now my reads are:

Town (S->W):

Gaoth, Hoppster, ShadowDancer, CATFISH, Tragedy, Killerjester, Oversoul, Ethereal Cookie.

Null:

Robocopter87, Benmage, Dramonic, Scumhunter, GhostWriter.

Scum (S->W):

Sir Bastion, Primate.

[Duplicity]

@ SleepyKrew -

I expect better than this from you. Your question directed towards Gaoth was a 'Are you mafia' question which has no gain in asking and doesn't need a repsonse. Furthermore I've already stated and explained that SD is town and the wagon on him should be dying down not growing.

@ Sir Bastion -

I'd rather not go into the exact disagreement right now but I'll explain it later in the day.

@ Scumhunter -

You need to get in here and state your reads and thoughts.

[Duplicity]

Our disagreement on Bastion is something I'll go into when more people have responded and posted, no reason to elaborate into it just yet.

People need to start contributing, not just to stop this from being deadlined but because there's so little content in this thread it's unbelievable. I'm actually starting to regret joining this game because the amount of fluff and useless posting along with quote walls is frustrating to say the least. Mystery Account is obviously town and there's no reason whatsoever to even consider ignoring his posts at all, who gives a flying fuck if he's acting arrogant.

@ SleepyKrew -

You should know that I consider you to be a good player, I don't offer to hydra with just anyone

just noobs like Gorilla and Scumhunter.

The fact that SD's vote is placed where it is right now is meaningless, I still think he's town and I still the wagon him needs to die. Get Amrum to give her reads please.

[Duplicity]

@ SleepyKrew -

Shadows vote landing on you doesn't change the fact that he's scumhunted at all. Also if the question directed towards Goath is why does he suspect you for mentioning GB multiple times I don't think you're going to get any answer because again the question really doesn't lead anywhere. Hurry Amrum up, make this her utmost priority and if I were to tell you that Tragedy, ShadowDancer and Gaoth were all town right now who would you vote?

[Duplicity]

@ SleepyKrew

- There's a few reasons behind thinking he's town, I rather not go into all of them but him actively scumhunting is indeed one of them.

[Duplicity]

I don't think Shadow is scumhunting 'well' but I do believe he's genuinely trying and I'm actually starting to get really aggravated by peoples continual pushing and wagoning on SD, Hoppster, Gaoth, Tragedy and CATFISH. Seriously guys, start reading and looking elsewhere because those five are town.

@ MA -

My town-read on Gaoth is mostly meta based along with his paranoia and worrying about my alignment reading as natural and genuine considering the last game we played together though I do want him to 1) Stop loltunneling CATFISH and 2) Post his reads on everyone.

[Duplicity]

Duplicity, it's funny that two of your townreads are voting us, and my top suspects are some of your townreads. But just sitting there and saying "can't lynch these 5" doesn't work. You need to scumhunt.

It's really not all that funny, it's actually slightly depressing to observe and I have and do plan on scumhunting but I need some content from the lurkers because at this point I'm convinced majority of the scum lie in there. Also the way that SD is trying to make multiple relevant posts in a row instead of sticking them all together should make him obv-town. What he's essentially doing is keeping the battery running. Now hurry Amrum up please.

[Duplicity]

That's not the reason. It's just my usual posting style. Also I doubt that the battery runs solely on post count... It's probably closer to word or line count, most likely taking into account how many players are active. Hence it's even more important that the lurkers finally post.

That's not the posting style I've seen you use, in election mafia you combined all of your thoughts into longer more analytical posts and thus assumed short posts are to help the deadline stay afloat which is something I've been subtly trying to do. I have a very good idea of what the variables for the deadline involve and yes it is slightly dependent on everyone posting and contributing however the number of game related and relevant posts are one of it's larger factors.

@ Hoppster -

I have a tendancy to answer/respond for people in order to propel the game forward faster, if you want a few examples of it I'll be glad to go get them otherwise I'd appreciate your more detailed reads on Killerjester, Sir Bastion and Ghostwriter.

[Duplicity]

@ CATFISH -

He did answer it, it's in one of the votecounts. I do have a good idea how the battery works and what the variables are. Now can Amrum get in here.

[Duplicity]

@ CATFISH -

Your presence is important because right now your slot is loltunneling two townies and is refusing to stop doing so over and over again to the point where it's actually pissing me off. This game needs some active players right now that are willing to stand back, look at everyone and state their thoughts and there's almost no one else to ask to do that here other than you so please suck up whatever illness you have and read this thread because 10 pages will literally take you 20-30 minutes tops.

[Duplicity]

@ CATFISH -

My job would be getting you to post more, I'm not part of your hydra or slot, yes but that doesn't mean your performance or lack thereof doesn't impact on me or the game. As for my reads I've stated them multiple times but I'll go ahead once more:

Gaoth is town. Hoppster is town. Shadow Dancer is town. CATFISH is town. Oversoul is town. Tragedy is town. I think Killerjester is town too though this read I'm much less certain on. Ghostwriter, Robotcopter, Scumhunter, Benmage and Dramonic I have no thoughts on at all but know they need to start contributing. Sir Bastion and Ethernal Cookie I'm iffy on, some of his posts read as town whereas others read as scum, if I had to make a decision between them though I'd say that Sir Bastion is more likely scum. Primate is still suspicious though I'm waiting for his dose of content that he has promised before making a final decision on him.

@ ShadowDancer -

I only have Election Mafia to judge you of, I've never been in any of your other games. Shockingly enough in this Duplicity hydra I do most of the posting regardless of alignment though I normally discuss my posts, thoughts and reads with Gorilla in a QT we've made (I also thought I'd see if I can nail everyones picks in there for fun) before posting. It's because I'm normally exceedingly active whereas Shift and Gorilla are a lot more reserved but I'll tell him you want him to start posting and hopefully he'll take some control because this games pissing me of to the extent that I want a day or two away from it so I can come back fresheaded.

[Duplicity]

I've been called in to break down this terrible case from a braindead person because Regfan is too

aggravated

busy to deal with this right now. Going to break this down is beautiful little quote stripes because that's what it deserves.

REASON ONE:
Duplicity is not scumhunting. He is sitting there and saying "these ppl r b town no tuchin dem!!!". There is no protown motivation for this kind of behavior. His closest semblance to scumhunting is saying "these ppl r not b untuchable ima sit onna fence YEEHA".

This is how Regfan scumhunts. You could check any of his prior games as town if you actually feel the need to put real thought into this game at some point. I will pull examples if need be. I'm pretty sure in the past he's had to argue the point that yes,

defending someone who you believe is town from being lynched

is a pro-town action. Additionally, saying that we've been fencesitting while we've been trying move the votes off people we think are town and onto a scummy player (sir bastion) is a fucking joke. The term "fencesitting" refers to not taking a stance. We have been taking a stance.

REASON TWO:
His townread on SD is utter bullshit. He says it's because of SD's scumhunting. SD is voting us, and we're one of Dup's untuchables. Plus, SD doesn't even have a good reason to be on us. Fakeread is fake.

I'll completely level with you and say that at first, I didn't agree with Regfan on SD, I skimmed his ISO, thought he was sort of scummy solely on gut, had a self-meta thing I didn't like, but he convinced me after a bit. Two things - firstly, there are some secret reasons he doesn't want to out as to why he thinks SD is town, but I suppose that won't matter if you don't trust us on that. Secondly, scumhunting is a thought process, not just a singular vote. Just because he is voting for someone we believe is town (and still do) does not mean he is scum - the fact remains that his thought process and reasoning read as a genuine albeit flawed town player who is looking for mafia. THAT is why he is town. You need to stop thinking on such a fucking superficial level about things.

REASON THREE:
He's trying so hard to derail the SD wagon. He tried so hard to get us off Tragedy. But he just shrugs his shoulders at the votes on us. Inconsistency.

Direct quote from Regfan on this: "i did try to derail the votes of you, if you want quotes i can go get them but holy fuck you must be blind if you're seriously trying to push this"

REASON FOUR:
He was probably THE most vocal person clamoring for Amrun. Why? Why do you want more activity from an already active slot instead of from lurkers? Why don't you get gorilla to post, because I'm pretty sure he hasn't posted ONCE yet.

Because Amrun is more competent than you. This game is lacking real anaylsis and Amrun posting or at least reading the thread would assist in that. Further than that, though, what scum motive is there in pushing Amrun to post?

Also, I've been discussing with him behind the scenes, I generally don't post as much as him, but we've worked on posts collaboratively.

REASON FIVE:
Let's get this part out of the way first- he put words in SD's mouth.
But it gets worse. He claims he knows how the battery operates, and that it's by postcount. He uses SD's multipost as an excuse to derail that wagon. But not the votes on us, even though we also multipost. More inconsistency.
And that's not all. Order now and we'll double the inconsistency! So Mister Duplicity, the battery operates on postcount you say? This needs it's own mini-list:
1. Why not share this earlier?
2. How do you know this?
3. If you're so worried about getting deadlined, why don't you just spam it up?
4. If multiposting is protown, how come you don't do it?

direct quote: "i have a good idea how the battery works from reading into it and watching and playing a few of vi's games, there's multiple factors and variables and 1) i have shared that everyone needs to stay active and post relevant posts to keep us from being deadlined 2) experience 3) spamming from one player changes the total post count variable but without everyone posting it would only gain us a slight bit of time 4) i have posted in shorter bursts than normal but i don't multipost because i find it annoying to read and to cut my thoughts into various posts"

[Duplicity]

also:

unvote, vote Duplicity

^King Tommen's Justice

Regfan says less trolling, more posting

[Duplicity]

Sir Bastion, I've no idea how you expect us to continue to push a case on you when you've been lurking for the last 3 pages, but okay.

Actually, I had a bit of a lightning bolt moment last night but i've got a few questions for you before I say what it was.

Sir, your vote is still on Hoppster but you haven't really been addressing him at all. Do you still suspect him, and if so, why?

Furthermore, you mentioned early in the game you thought etherealcookie was posting strangely, and made a post about it that we called you out on. Humor me, what's your read on him currently, since you haven't mentioned him in a while either?

[Duplicity]

I pretty much realized that Duplicity was calling on Amrun, but not the lurkers. Now I keep thinking he's distancing some more now.

So basically, you're saying that we should WAIT for Amrun so the game would move more? REALLY?

Now I know you're mentally retarded and a terrible player and all of that (And yes I don't give a fuck if I'm insulting this game is a piece of shit and needs someone to yell at people to put them right other than Scumhunter) but how about you actually read our fucking posts. The quoted below should make it incredibly fucking obvious that we want the lurkers to start posting and that we don't want the game to stop waiting for Amrum but rather her to speed the fuck up and get in here because SleepyKrew is starting to prove Scumhunter right from Mallows game.

Ghostwriter, Robotcopter, Scumhunter, Benmage and Dramonic I have no thoughts on at all but know they need to start contributing. Primate is still suspicious though I'm waiting for his dose of content that he has promised before making a final decision on him.

I need some content from the lurkers because at this point I'm convinced majority of the scum lie in there.

People need to start contributing, not just to stop this from being deadlined but because there's so little content in this thread it's unbelievable.

We need to keep the activity up to a high level otherwise the battery is going to deadline us way too soon.

.

@ Scumhunter -

I mean it, the trolling needs to stop and you need to start posting content because you're the only reason I'm still in this game.

[Duplicity]

The current pet theory of mine is that SB is scum distancing from EC. Will elaborate later.

Regfan reads Benmage as town, don't have the reasoning right now but he wanted me to post that.

- G.

[Duplicity]

Considering this thread seems to be dying down in activity I'll go into our disagreement of read on Sir. Initially I had a scum-read on him and Gorilla had a town-read and was convinced my scum-read was playstyle based so we went through his posts and I pointed out exactly what made me suspect him, Gorilla agreed and we shifted his vote to us and then I started getting a terribad townie who can't defend himself properly feeling from Sir which Gorilla disagreed with. Anyway, although his recent post is proddodgish Gorilla no longer wants to continue to vote him either.

Farside, the town read on Gaoth is as previously said mostly meta based combined with his paranoia reading as genuine. Also Scumhunters vote on us was very obviously him trolling and is something he does in every game and not a reason to vote/push on him for however there is something that feels off about him this game and it involves his push on Benmage and his avoidance on commenting on the Sir case that we pushed forward. If he really were town ready to stop the rvs and play seriously I know the very first thing he would focus on doing is looking at my posts and thoughts and questioning, agreeing or disagreeing with them.

@Amrum - You're going to need to give more reads than that.

Unvote, Vote: Scumhunter

[Duplicity]

No, it doesn't. It really doesn't.

[Duplicity]

Had a few long days, catching up on everything now though I haven't seen or heard from Gorilla in a while.

[Duplicity]

@ Scumhunter -

Benmages best town award is meaningless, he's actually a very weak town player and a strong scum player and yes he is often very illogical. His attack towards you and back at Hoppster attached with his willingness to admit when he's wrong is what makes him town. My vote on you is mainly due to the fact that you're avoiding taking many strong stances and seem to be ignoring a great deal of the playerlist. Furthermore you're fencesitting on whether you think I'm town or mafia. I have a few questions I want to you to answer including:

1. What's your read on Sir Bastion? Do you find his meta research on who has played together with who as a town or scum-tell?
2. What's your read on Tragedy? Do you think she's playing to her scum-play in the newbie we played with her or her town-play in mallows game?
3. Who would you consider your strongest town reads right now?

@ Farside -

Gaoths playstyle is hard to describe but I would suggest reading through those in comparison to his scum play in 90s Band Mafia.

[Duplicity]

Deadline is coming up and we need to start getting some serious votes down otherwise this is going to be a last minute vote scramble plus we need ample time to get claims before a lynch. I'd be content with a lynch one one of Ethernal, Robo, Dram, Scumhunter, Ghost, Primate and potentially Tragedy (She's avoided addressing the logical flaws in her opinions and instead is rather lurking the day out) right now and have relatively strong town reads on everyone else.

Out of those I'm most confident on Primate being scum at the moment, he still has his vote on no one and has avoided taking any real stances in his most recent post just to promise activity at a later date not follow through with it but post elsewhere on the site.

Unvote, Vote: Primate

[Duplicity]

I'm swamped and incredibly tired right now but I'll devote time for a re-read on this game tomorrow. Still very much want a Primate lynch at this point though there's a few other lynches I'm happy to settle with Dramonics being one if he doesn't start actually providing some content. Just a few quick things before I sleep though:

@ Farside -

Gaoths paranoia stems from him reading me completely incorrectly when I was mafia in the last game we played and Scumhunters revolves around the fact that we're played hundreds of games of mafia together on an alternate site where for some reason he 'fears' me plus he's a troll.

@ Benmage

- It's not just Faradays last game but your governing on Zdenek goes down as the dumbest movie a townie has even made in forum mafia in my books.

@ Oversoul -

It's a no-jester game as stated by the sign up thread and the rules. I'm agreeing with most of your town-reads except the EC read, ISO him again and you'll find he's been almost content-less throughout this game while criticizing others content levels. Also your Benmage scum read is way off, I've explained why he's town earlier but essentially his attack and retraction of attack on Hoppster as well as his suggesting of policy lynching Scumhunter are both town tells for him.

[Duplicity]

Oh and I'll explain whatever I know and understand about the battery tomorrow, far too tired to do so right now.

[Duplicity]

The decline speed of the battery and low amount of activity mean we've likely got two days until deadline strikes, in that time Dramonic needs to come in here and claim because as much as I still want a Primate lynch it looks almost inevitable that a Dram one will be going through instead.

Also given the possibility that I might die tonight I rather get out my reads one last time:

Town Reads (Strongest to weakest):

Oversoul, Benmage, Farside, Gaoth, Hoppster, Shadow Dancer, CATFISH, (Large Gap), Tragedy.

Null Reads:

Robocopter, Dramonic, GhostWriter, Sir Bastion (Disagreement on him).

Scum Reads (Strongest to weakest):

Primate, Ethereal Cookie (If he flips scum odds Sir is scum are incredibly high), Scumhunter.

@ Scumhunter -

The main reason I suspect Primate has nothing to do with lack of content but rather contradicting stances early in the game and then a reduction of stances taken continuing on into a promise of content and stances taken which was never followed through on.

[Duplicity]

I can get behind an EC lynch though deadlines making it looking slightly unlikely to occur. I still think Primate needs to hang at some point though, from what I can tell he hasn't caught up with the thread at all but did meta research on Dram, stated his persona is different when he's town but still refrained from placing a vote or stating his thoughts on anything else.

Unvote: Primate, Vote: EC

@ Bastion - Gorilla seems adamant that your post where you quote stripped EC stating suspicious actions of his but not voting him is a distancing attempt.

@ Dram - At this point it's looking very much like you need to claim.

[Duplicity]

If votes are split evenly between two leading wagons, it's the player who got placed to the number first that's lynched.

Gaoth, explained why you read EC as incredibly townie - in reading his ISO he came off as excessively mocking in a lot of his posts, where he uses sarcasm rather than solid logic to make points. He attacks people but doesn't show strong follow-through meaning he's basically sniping at people to make them look scummy.

- G.

[Duplicity]

That's just the thing though, I don't see his attacks as trying to rock the boat at all - he's not going out of his way to anger anyone or be aggressive, more like he's using a "herpaderp" posting style to camouflage weak posts. The tone feels forced, in other words.

- G.

[Duplicity]

Getting to this game properly later today, skimmed it so far and yes I am a 1-shot neighbourizer however there's a little more to my role than that but I'll explain it at a later time. For the love of god don't quick lynch anyone in the next few hours.

[Duplicity]

Oh and typically a rolecop that finds out alignment and the role of someone is a mafia role.

[Duplicity]

Regfan and I agree this is the right move to make:

VOTE: Benmage

SB trying to push Benmage before claiming is believable and we don't see him faking a guilty here as mafia.

- G.

[Duplicity]

Sir Bastion is essentially clear and instant outs any guilty he has, no reason to out innocents yet though and tomorrow massclaim may be optimal but for now keeping doctor hidden is our best bet. Scumhunter, Oversoul and Quilford are very likely town due to interactions with Benmage and Dramonic looks worse though I'm not particularly keen on the idea of lynching him just yet. Ignoring interactions I also have weaker town reads on CATFISH, Gaoth and Farside meaning the scum is very likely some of Primate, Ghostwriter and Tragedy. Of those I'm still most confident in a Primate lynch at the moment.

Vote: Primate

[Duplicity]

Yeah, 'no result' very likely mans you were roleblocked.

[Duplicity]

I still standby my Tradegy town read. You want to explain the reason you have him as scum dup?

It's mostly process of elimination but it also revolves around a lack of interaction between Benmage and her and her continued uselessness and avoidance of addressing the flaws in her opinions when pointed out. Overall though it's a relatively weak read in comparison to my scum-reads on Primate and Ghost.

Oh and Slaxx would have cop investigating GF as an innocent result not a 'no result'.

[Duplicity]

@ Tragedy -

Four scum is very likely, now can you start contributing via stating your town/scum reads please.

@ Scumhunter -

Quilfords vote and push on Benmage at the start of D2 doesn't read as a bus to me at all, don't see mafia considering 'bussing' their rolecop in a setup that seems to be likely pr heavy.

@ Amrum -

As much as I'd love to see a case on Dramonic I want the rest of your reads too.

I'll put together the reasoning behind why I think Primate is scum exactly tomorrow sometime, got to head to work now.

[Duplicity]

I don't like a Dramonic lynch at all at the moment, I understand where you're coming from Amrun about Benmage defending him and pushing a counter-wagon but the biggest thing stopping me from believing that is the fact that Dramonic was around near deadline but didn't even place down a vote to attempt to save himself. In all of Slaxx's modded games mafia have had daytalk so I'm going to go ahead and assume they have it this game because I have it too, if Benmage was attempting to defend his partner Dram, he'd have yelled at him in the QT to lay down a vote. if you want to see what Benmage with daytalk is like take a look at Mafia Invictus QT.

[Duplicity]

I'll briefly try and explain why I think Primate is scum:

- Benmages only interaction with him is calling him the biggest vet here, they never mention each other again, now he rolecopped me because i'm the most 'dangerous' but if he thought Primate was the biggest vet he'd likely have checked him over me.

- Primates been continuously avoiding taking any real or strong stances and been trying to coast through by providing minimal and promising more.

- During the end of D2 Primate put forward a meta-case on Dramonic then refrained from voting, if he doesn't vote often that's fair enough but if he's gone so far to do meta research surely he believes in it enough to lay down a vote.

- In his post today when he explains his absence he doesn't even attempt to create or state reads from the past 10+ or so pages where a lot of content has been laid, instead he just votes Dramonic for lurking.

[Duplicity]

@ SleepyKrew -

If your question is does the 'Extra part' of my role show up in my role name the answer is no and at this point I may as well openly reveal what it is. We're unable to neighbourize power roles, meaning we can only neighbourize VTs or Vanilla mafia. It makes our power partially investigative but we only have one-shot and one-reattempt. That is if we attempt to neighbourize someone that isn't a VT/Vanilla mafia we only have one chance to try again, if it fails we aren't able to neighbourize at all. We did neighbourize last night and it was successful.

@ Scumhunter -

Lol be paranoid more. Our reasoning for Primate being our strongest FoS on D1 revolved around his posts read as if he was attempting to avoid conflict and attention and the fact that he continued to provide larger amounts of texts but no real content.

[Duplicity]

I'd bet on Hoppster dying because mafia were doctor hunting.

[Duplicity]

Amrun, I really don't like/agree with a Dramonic lynch at this point, are you willing to compromise elsewhere because I'd settle with a Ghostwriter lynch if you don't want to lynch Primate.

[Duplicity]

Still very content with a Primate lynch though I'd switch to Ghost if a wagon got started there and Amrun you need to respond to my posts stating why I disagree with the Dram wagon. Also, right now my town-read on Gaoth has effectively faded away and to answer your question Mystery, I'm almost certain you're town.

[Duplicity]

Every Slaxx game has had daytalk for the mafia.

[Duplicity]

@Duplicity: Is this theory based on one game?

No, it's based on at least four and potentially 6, I'd need to check his earlier games to make sure though. And no, Slaxx detests insane cops ect, though he does love inclusion of roleblockers and similar things to prevent it from being a follow the cop style game.

[Duplicity]

Assuming that this was real, then why did Benmage reveal his result in public? More WIFOM now?

Simply put it verifies his claim, without him counter-claiming anything resembling cop he would have been instantly lynched meaning he was compelled to counter-claim with his legitimate role (Role-cop), guessing a random persons role would damn him more often than not so he revealed his legitimate rolecop on me to:

1) Legitimate his claim (Ie. Prove that he is indeed a role-cop) and
2) To attempt to sway my vote by stating he knew my role and alignment.

[Duplicity]

thats enough for now, confirm if its 6 games or not, but lets not turn this into a complete outguess the mod game as we could make too many assumptions.

I found four games with day-talk, one game without and I can't find the mafia QT from the last game he hosted so it's 4-1-? in terms of inclusion of daytalk in his games. I do know that I have daytalk though which makes it all the more likely scum have it too.

@ SleepyKrew - You're really going to continue to derp around about that all game aren't you?

[Duplicity]

@ Scumhunter -

His report doesn't "clear me" and I've explained why I think he outted his report already. Spending time focusing solely on this is a complete waste of time and you know that, especially considering my role is already confirm-able (It's been used, would rather not out the target but they can confirm it at a later point) furthermore my ability is a fashion an 'investigative role' since I can only neighbourize vanilla mafia/vts which would be pointless and meaningless as a mafia role especially considering they had a mafia rolecop.

@ Quilford -

I agree that Sleepys push is laughable but I don't think he's mafia and Amruns case against Dramonic makes a lot of logical sense which I see coming from town though I disagree with the conclusions she draws and her insistence that Dram is scum despite the fact he didn't make any attempt to place a vote to save himself D1. Which of your reads at the moment would you consider to be your 'stronger' ones.

[Duplicity]

Right now this is where Gorilla and I are sitting:

Town Reads:

Sir Bastion, Scumhunter, Oversoul, Farside, CATFISH, Quilford.

Null Reads:

Dramonic, Tragedy.

Scum Reads:

Primate, Ghostwriter, Gaoth.

My town-read on Gaoth has completely evaporated, at this point he's effectively doing everything he can to avoid posting any form of content in this thread at all and it's not something I've ever seen him do as town before. Furthermore I don't understand his supposed strong scum-read on Dramonic that has led him to vote him without considering the case proposed against Primate at all.

[Duplicity]

So you considerin' that Dramonic ain't somehow connected to Gaoth now? Or assuming Dram's town, you'd want to lynch Primate or Gaoth afterwards? And your town read on me dropped because I'm not giving out reads or doing anything townie that you would think I'd normally do?

I'm having some slight trouble following this so apologies if I don't answer exactly what you're after here. I don't think there's any real chance for Dramonic and Gaoth to be scum partners at all, if one flips scum I'd consider the other as highly likely town, with that said yes I do want Primate lynched (Thus my vote on him) but also think that Ghost and Gaoth are scum.

And yes, my loss of town-read on you is because I saw that you're able to play relatively competently as town (For instance in Election Mafia) where you can actually state and explain reads, throughout this game you've barely done that and instead seem to be clinging on to your earlier reads however illogical they may be.

[Duplicity]

If Ghostwriter flipped town, how would your opinion on everyone change?
Seeing that Oversoul is freaking clinging onto you like a magnet and a horseshoe, why do you assume that he's town?
I haven't clung onto my earlier 'illogical' reads and TRYING to push them like crazy, sorry. It's just that Primate and Dramonic are being completely lurky now.
I keep forgetting that Oversoul is here too.

Not following the relevance of this line of questioning - from how it seems ghost isn't getting lynched today therefore his flip isn't possible to impact my reads. With that said, none of my reads revolve around my read on him, in other words if he flips town or scum my reads don't change at all. There's a lot of Oversouls posts that I read as very very likely town and although he has/is buddying me to a degree I don't think he's scum.

[Duplicity]

Draminic not hammering has me conflicted. On one hand, it could be scum looking for town cred by not hammering. On the other hand, it could be scummy town avoiding a chance to look scummier. Any thoughts on this?

It's not a scum-tell at all, in fact it's the opposite, I'd expect dram-scum to hammer and prevent himself being lynched at one of the first opportunities presented and his lack of doing so makes me continue to doubt that he's mafia.

[Duplicity]

Because Benmage claiming an investigation on Duplicity is a very compelling argument to confirm him

No one has said it does but you seem to 'suspect me' to some degree as it's preventing you from voting/hammering Primate so would you mind attempting to explain your scum-read or at least present your complete reads list/contribute at all.

[Duplicity]

Cop guilty on Quilford is good though surprising, it shows my reads have been abysmal this game. I highly doubt there's a framer, especially given the scum power we've already seen and know about. Mass-claim is a fantastic idea due to the fact that there's only been vanilla townie deaths so far and therefore are likely a few more power-roles out there. Claiming would lead towards narrowing down the investigation pool and potential lynch pool in future days. One thing must be done if we mass-claim though and that is doctor has to claim vanilla townie. I'd suggest Sir Bastion makes a claim order and we stick to it and get through it as fast as possible.

All other thoughts of mine can come later, I need breakfast ect.

[Duplicity]

I'd bank on there being four scum total so after this lynch just one remaining, also Slaxx isn't bastardy enough to have a death miller so speculation of it is needless. Mass-claim occurring today is probably optimal though again a doctor or protective role should be claiming VT because there's most certainly one remaining. Also the fact that you weren't roleblocked means that mafia probably had a limited amount of shots for roleblocking and that it's used up.

Also this game continues to prove how terrible my reads are at the moment. I messaged Gorilla a few hours ago asking him to discuss reads with him before this day started, we both had agreed that Scumhunter was probably town due to Benmage-Scumhunter interaction and that Dramonic might actually be mafia despite our town-read on him and insistence that his lack of self-defense and placing a vote made him town earlier. Looks like we're wrong on both fronts.

[Duplicity]

I'm not placing a vote and urge everyone else to refrain from doing so at the moment as well, we need to organize and finish a mass-claim as well as give everyone time to chime in before we even consider lynching.

[Duplicity]

what are the odds on me investigating 4 times and hitting scum 3 times and being roleblocked once? its all rather weird...

I don't think the odds matter at all, sure it's unlikely to occur if it was suggested to happen pre-game but it's what seems to have happened so there's no reason to question it. One thought I have is that it's possible the roleblocking is odds/evens nights rather than limited shot so if you don't mind can you quickly summarize your investigations in order for me.

[Duplicity]

Also, that edit on Slaxxx's post.

Yes, I was having a conversation with Girallon about how the massive amount of VT deaths mean that there's likely a few more power roles out there and how mass-claim could potential break this, then said "It's only VTs that have died", checked and noticed Ghost was labelled as a VT and alerted Slaxx of the mod error.

[Duplicity]

whats a 1 shot alt sacrificer???

From what Ghostwriter explained yesterday it's an extra strong 1-shot doctor, essentially he has an alternate account (Mystery Account) to post on and when he successfully doc saves he loves his alternate account. That's most certainly not all the doctor or protective power we have though.

[Duplicity]

Scumhunter, if you're legitimately a miller who didn't just refrain from claiming in their opening post in the first day, at all during the first day or when the cop had claimed then you've single handy fucked this game over. I don't give a shit if you believe refraining from claiming means a chance you get night killed or you didn't expect to get investigated there is almost zilch downside for miller outright claiming while a lot to gain or prevent.

Dup: Any reason we need a mass claim if SH is scum?

Firstly, as explained earlier the mass amount of VT death almost guarantees multiple living PR's, their claiming narrows down the investigation pool for Sir Bastion. Secondly, mass-claiming locks scum into claims that they won't be able to change later in the game at all. Lastly, a lot of our weaker reads at the moment revolve around soft-claims to a degree and people fully claiming at this point will greatly strengthen or nullify those reads.

[Duplicity]

I'll argue the benefits vs the negatives of claiming miller early after the game, it's just noise doing so here right now. Though I will say that I have had discussions with Scumhunter in the past and yes, his conclusion at the time was that late-claiming miller was the best way to play it however a few big games have occurred since now and then that I would expect to have impacted his thought process on the matter.

Scumhunter, I 100% agree with your scum-read on Gaoth and at this point I'd almost bank on him being scum. I however almost completely disagree with your scum-read on Farside and want it explainewd. When I was discussing the game with Gorilla earlier prior to the daystart we agreed upon you/farside/catfish being town leaving scum inside gaoth/dramonic/tragedy however there is something that makes me doubt my Tragedy scum read to a degree that I'd rather not go into now.

[Duplicity]

I don't think 'not voting any of the mafia' is that valid a scum-tell considering they were confirmed and therefore there's no scum motivation to not vote their partner, it's merely a matter of being online during one of the voting time frames. I do have a lot of other things heavily pointing towards Gaoth being mafia that I'll elaborate into after a mass-claim occurs.

As for Scumhunters claim 'Troller', it does make ultimate sense to be miller given it's flavour and concept and I'll be perfectly honest and say at this point I'm leaning towards believing his claim however at the same time it's almost needed to have him lynched before a lylo situation occurs otherwise a massive problem will arise. Also we are indeed mass-claiming today but I want to reaffirm this one more time because we need to make sure the living protective role doesn't get night-killed too soon:

Any protective role needs to claim VT

. If we get another save tonight (For example if they shoot at you not believing me when I say there's another protective role) we attain a free mslynch which is perfect.

[Duplicity]

Him claiming 'Troll Timmmmmmmmmeee' really isn't that much of an indicator, he has that attitude in any game regardless of alignment. I will say though his continued use of insults in the fashion he has and the meta I have on him essentially confirms that Troller is his character and as I said miller

mason

fits Trollers flavour perfectly.

[Duplicity]

If you were a miller, you should have claimed day 1. You die today, but obviously you should have time to put your reads up. Why didn't you claim day 1?

He doesn't believe in miller claiming D1 and I've already confirmed that he's not making that belief up at all and I'm believing him more and more as this day progresses.

@ Sir Bastion -

You need to create a mass-claim order, we need to stick to it and we need to get through it asap.

[Duplicity]

News: I'm Duplicity's neighbor. Personally, I think this was his attempt to manipulate me just as he did during PA mafia, and to get interactions out of thread that he can try and incriminate me with.

This is a blatant lie, point to one particular post in the QT in which I could possibly have attempted to 'manipulate you', in fact the other thing that I 'convinced you of' was that your scum-read on Dramonic was illogical and very likely wrong. Furthermore if I was trying to get interactions out of the thread that I would try and incriminate you with would I not have brought them up? You're reaching here, and you're reaching massively. Especially considering I haven't posted in the QT in a long time and rarely used it to begin with due to a large amount of suspicion Gorilla has towards you. Also when you stated your reads in there after we demanded them, we pointed out logical errors in the reasoning behind them, you disagreed with that, we posted suspicion of you in the thread, you completely flipped out and changed all your reads to match ours while calling us scum. So try and misrep all you want but it's not going to get you anywhere at all.

Mass-claim needs to end but if I have my way today and Gorilla doesn't try to convince me otherwise like he was doing earlier I'm placing my vote on Gaoth.

[Duplicity]

Look, I'm not the kind of guy to pull the "lynch me and you'll be sorry" Fearow mongering, but I'm Town.

Get the fuck over it Duplicity. Congrats, another of your reads gone awry this game.

You're insulting my reads and claiming they're being bad which implies you think I'm town while having your vote on me and claiming that you're not moving it at all.

@Scumhunter -

I'll re-read Farside but I chose Gaoth to neighbourize because on D1 he was a stronger town-read than you (I thought you were scum then otherwise I was going to instant-neighbourize you) and because we've had great success working in a neighbourhood together in the past.

[Duplicity]

@Scumhunter - He knows he can manipulate me, he did it last game

Don't avoid the question. Which post and where in the QT did I "Manipulate you"?

[Duplicity]

The act of Neighorizing me was the maipulation in and of itself, quite personally. That act, combined with benmage's rolecop report made me make a snap judgement about your alignment in this game. Maybe I allowed myself to be manipulated, after all the suspicion i stated day 1 i was looking for an excuse to call you town.

You're not making any sense at all here. You're stating that the whole 'manipulation' that I did was merely neighbourizing you and then doing nothing to 'manipulate you' in the neighborhood.

[Duplicity]

I thought your role was to neighborize someone that was only vanilla. Why would you be suspicious of someone that you were able to neighborize.

We can only neighbourize Vanilla Townies and Mafia Goons. We think he's a mafia goon.

[Duplicity]

I have a question I desperately need to ask Slaxx. All my other thoughts will have to wait until I receive an answer.

[Duplicity]

Got my answer, question was essentially when did Gaoth find out that I neighbourized him N1 or D2. I was writing out my reads and possible partners on the bus today then thought shit my read on Gaoth might be wrong if he found out N1 since scum wouldn't have any reason to rolecop me but apparently he found out first thing D2 so that's all irrelevant. Mass-claim has to finish and no Farside I'm not going to get into a massive argument with you about it like every other game we've played togewther, it's happening. Scumhunter, I'll save my re-read on Farside for when mass-claim finished. Also at this point I believe Scumhunter being legitimate.

Town (S->W):

Sir Bastion, CATFISH, Scumhunter.

Null (Waiting on mass-claim to re-read and fully judge):

Farside, Oversoul, Tragedy.

Scum (S->W):

Gaoth

[Duplicity]

Claims:

Sir Bastion - Cop
Duplicity - 1-Shot Neighbourizer.
Gaoth - VT
Oversoul - VT
Scumhunter - Miller

Left to claim in order:

Farside22
Catfish
Tragedy

Farside, you're up.

[Duplicity]

I get the feeling you can't decide whether to push on Duplicity or to appeal to him. Some posts make it seem liek you think he is town, others like you think he is scum. There is a disconnect there as to your intent...

This. Exactly this. Gaoth, you claim that my attempt at 'manipulation' was neighbourizing you but in a previous game where Gorilla neighbourized me and you and I were masons you very clearly told me that him neighbourizing me is a complete null tell as he would do so as town and as mafia.

Also given that there's 8 people alive (An even number) a vig shot would essentially could as a double msylnch for us (Todays ML and tonights shooting) mean it 100% is optimal to use the vig shot tonight and I think everyone (Bar Sir Bastion) should vote and unvote CATFISH and not doing so should be considered a scum-claim.

[Duplicity]

Vote: CATFISH

[Duplicity]

Unvote: CATFISH

Claims:

Sir Bastion - Cop
Duplicity - 1-Shot Neighbourizer.
Gaoth - VT
Oversoul - VT
Scumhunter - Miller
Farside - VT
CATFISH - Vig

Left to claim in order:

Tragedy

Finish this of for us Tragedy.

[Duplicity]

Just discussed the situation with Gorilla, I think best way to play this is to lynch elsewhere and have Amrun vig Scumhunter if we don't lynch mafia today.

[Duplicity]

Also, if we don't lynch the RB things could get messy between the Cop and the Vig with the Mafia trying to kill the cop and RBing Amrun. :\

Lack of the cop being roleblocked on the past few nights makes it highly, highly likely that the roleblocker was limited shots and has run out so I don't think we need to overly worry about RB making things messy.

[Duplicity]

Duplicity, you are a massive faggot. The vig-shot

is

a mislynch. If you don't want me lynched you shouldn't want me vigged. What's up with that? Can you explain your thought process on that as it makes me just a little bit nervous about you.

Simply put; I think you're town, Girallon doesn't and is making fun of me for making a comment elsewhere saying "Millers claiming on lylo is scummy" so best compromise and suggestion we could think of is to refrain from lynching you and aim elsewhere. If we lynch scum we can nail the last based on interactions (I have a lot of impossible teams and a few likely team that I narrowed down on the bus yesterday, I'll convert it from paper to typed later) and if we don't vig shoots you to prevent any lylo decision in regards to your miller claim being legitimate or not.

[Duplicity]

>('.'v) I'm a Vanilla Townie, Eagle Scout!

Can you explain the massive amount of soft-claiming you've been doing then?

[Duplicity]

Scumhunter, assuming you're town and you believe we're town (Which the severe lack of PR claims essentially confirms) the only potential scum-teams would be:

1. Tragedy + Oversoul
2. Tragedy + Gaoth
3. Tragedy + Farside
4. Oversoul + Farside
5. Oversoul + Gaoth
6. Farside + Gaoth

Which of those do you believe are impossible and which do you believe are likely? Right now I'm actually finding Tragedys breadcrumbs and demeanor as a town-tell so I'm happy to eliminate her from the scenarios leaving it to be 4, 5 and 6 and I know which one I think it is but I want your thoughts first.

[Duplicity]

Amrun, I'm assuming that means you think she's town as well. Who do you think the scumteam is? Also what happened to SK?

[Duplicity]

@Duplicity: You need to explain why you would think that someone would claim miller after a claim and be town because right now I'm not buying it.

I know Scumhunter from another site that we've played together at for a long long time, we've hydraed together and had a lot of long discussions on optimal ways to play certain situations. How particular roles should operate and what not, miller is one of the roles we've had the biggest arguments on in the past. I've always stated miller should claim in their first post and he's always insistent that optimal miller play is to not claim at all. So it's an absolute fact that if Scumhunter is miller there's a very very very highly likelihood he would play the role this way, that doesn't mean it's entirely plausible and possible for him to be scum fake claiming but overall I'm leaning against thinking he's mafia right now.

[Duplicity]

Gaoth/Oversoul would make plenty of sense too. Is that what you are thinking Duplicity?

Bingo.

Gaoths scum-read on Oversoul that he listed in his reads list has never once really been explained nor has he voted Oversoul all game but rather is jumping on us and attempting to appeal towards us at the same time. Oversouls only real mentions of Gaoth is that he's leaning town on him with again no explanation towards the read.

[Duplicity]

Oh and I know from firsthand experience how you are always the more active head of a hydra, however I'd like to see a post from girallon or at least a post that goes into

his

reasoning as to why he thinks I'm scum/doesn't believe my claim that goes deeper than "lol late miller claim is scummy". It doesn't help me at all to see you say how much you think I'm town but still want me dead. It would be easy for you to just say you two can't make up your mind about me/hydra disagreements as a way to keep your options open as scum.

I've prodded him and requested that he post a few times now but his response is essentially him saying that he's been thinking about it and is unable to articulate any other reason other than "Late miller claim is scum" which I've stated and explained multiple times in great detail is not a super-strong argument for why you're scum. I think I'm slowly changing his mind in regards to the need for your lynch or vigging at any time soon but I'll prod him a few more times to come post here, just a slight warning he's been slightly depressed lately over having his

car

laptop

gold trophy stolen and replaced with a

pile of ashes

lot of debt

bronze trophy.

[Duplicity]

My new best guess is that SH and Duplicity are scum together, there is some sweet bussing going down because Duplicity is confident of their grasp on the town.

Alright, if you're going to make a statement like this I'm going to ask you to answer a question for me: Where has Scumhunter pushed towards me, and where have I pushed towards Scumhunter? Because the answer to both of those questions is that it hasn't occurred. I actually think Scumhunter is town.

While you're answering that I have another question for you that I also asked earlier; In 00's Band Mafia you stated that Gorilla neighbourizing me was a complete null tell as he would do so regardless of alignment however you're now claiming that my neighbourization of you was a 'scum manipulation tactic', how does that work in the slightest and again I'll ask where have I 'manipulated' you. And lastly, what happened to your scum-read on Oversoul?

[Duplicity]

There's no way in hell we're telling you if we're shooting. Don't want to waste the last shot.

In regards to this, you need to be using it tonight without a doubt. Given the fact that there's 8 players alive (An even number) your vig shot is essentially a free mslynch which should most certainly be used before you potentially get shot.

[Duplicity]

@Duplicity: Sorry, I thought I recalled you saying late game miller claim was scummy. Did that not happen?

No, it didn't happen, I've been arguing and saying for a long time that Scumhunter claiming miller late game is exactly he would play the role.

You're right, his neighborizing you in that game was a null tell, but i'm saying that given our past experience, especially last game, you neighborizing me is scummy, considering you have much more history, respect, and joy at playing with someone like Scumhunter. Why pick me? Because you didn't need an extra QT to talk to Scumhunter.

I didn't neighbourize Scumhunter because D1 I was highly suspicious of him and wanted to neighbourize a stronger town read or alt least someone I thought was town. As for why I neighbourized you because we have a history of working together really well in QTs which hasn't happened at all this game.

You got me to reevaluate my scum read on Dramonic in favor of a scum read on Ghostwriter (They were both town!).

This is untrue, I pointed out your logic behind your reads on the two of them were horse-shit. You were stating "Dram is lurking therefore he's scum, Ghost is lurking therefore he's town" which makes no sense whatsoever. The fact that they were both town is irrelevant.

I gave you my complete list of reads, and you basically told me they were shit. Is it possible Oversoul is scum? Yes. He's been (openly) sheeping you, and right now even though he suspects I'm town, he's willing to lynch me, someone he thinks is town. But I'm sold on you and Scumhunter.

Your complete list of reads included; Oversoul as scum, Scumhunter as town. You've completely flipped these reads around today without any attempt at backing up your reasoning for doing so.

[Duplicity]

Sorry about the inactivity from this slot, I'm waiting for two things:

1) A proper response from Goath and
2) Gorilla to tell me all of his thoughts, he has promised to re-read this game multiple times lately and I'm really hoping he has done so by today.

[Duplicity]

Still waiting on both 1) and 2) to occur but I also need to re-read Farside myself.

Glad that I'm not the only one believing Scumhunters claim. I was thinking, there's some form of roleblocker alive still confirmed and it's impossible for it to be Goath therefore lynching elsewhere might be optimal, if we lynch a non-roleblocking scum he essentially becomes clear.

[Duplicity]

Still waiting on 1) and 2).

Going to a step sisters 18th tonight, will comment on everything else and my re-read on Farside later tonight when I get home or tomorrow morning.

[Duplicity]

Scumhunter, is there any reason minus my roleclaim that you're so insistent in me being town? I'm used to seeing you nervous and paranoid about me and considering that my reads have been abysmal overall this game I don't understand your easyness with trusting me to the degree you are. As for your scum-read on farside I'm not seeing it to be honest, her push on you is terrible and illogical but at the same time I wouldn't consider either of those things scum-tells, in fact I'm finding Oversouls belief of your miller claim to be scummier. With that said from reading her ISO and having a discussion with Gorilla neither of us are confident in her being town either.

Also in Post #658 you call all of the players alive at the moment town and show confidence in those reads, what was the Farside town-read at that time based around? Also what's your read on Oversoul at the moment?

-----

Farside, it's been stated multiple times that Scumhunters miller claim and guilty on him doesn't condemn him at all, he would claim such as town and scum therefore I'd like you to state alternate reasons as to why you think he's mafia. When doing that I want you to look at his interactions with Benmage and tell me what you think.

-----

Alright, time for some thoughts to be laid down. There is confirmed some form of scum JOAT or roleblocker alive, lynching and aiming for today is the best way to proceed today I think. Sir Bastion and CATFISH are ruled out of being it due to obvtown role claims and Gaoth is ruled out due to being VT or Vanilla scum. That leaves the potential Mafia Roleblocker to be within [Scumhunter, Oversoul, Tragedy or Farside]. If we lynch inside there and lynch scum that isn't a roleblocker Gaoth would essentially become clear. From that pool we have a relatively strong town-read on Tragedy (Gorilla doesn't think she's smart enough to fake being vt by bitching about role in the thread so much) and a weaker town-read on Scumhunter (Gorilla has a horrible feeling over this still and insists that vigging Scumhunter if we don't lynch mafia today is the best bet). That leaves Oversoul and Farside. I'm going to read into Oversoul tomorrow.

[Duplicity]

Gorilla has promised to stop being

emo

noob

lazy and will be posting later today and likely placing a vote at the same time.

[Duplicity]

Oversoul, Gorilla wants the following comment explained:

Investigate me tonight, Ben.

[Duplicity]

Duplicity, I understand being terrible and illogical are not necessarily being scumtells but I think at times you expect too little. I don't believe farside is as dense as she is letting on right now. The "omg lets lynch the miller" syndrome with no other reasoning is a cookie cutter scum-tell and just one more reason that waiting to claim can be better.

You haven't played with Farside enough then, she's incredibly stubborn and when she makes up her mind on something for instance miller claim being desperate mafia she'll stick to it regardless of alignment.

Also, your role claim is irrelevant. If you are just rubbing it in my face that I think you are town as scum, fuck off. Your defense of my miller claim as fitting my play style is something I don't see you doing as scum although I guess its possible. Your initial anger/frustration in #62, focus in #63 and defense of me in #66 I can't fathom you doing as scum unless you are feeling particularly cruel. And unless your mindfucking me into considering this more I don't see why you would bring up this concern as scum. The one thing that does worry about me is taht you are the only posting on the hydra. We've never drawn scum as hydra partners but if we did I could easily imagine you dominating the late game play and being afraid of a partner scumslip.

You started thinking we were town or 'strong town' a long time before you were guiltied therefore you must have another reason for thinking we're town and I want to know it. As I said before your lack of paranoia or uncertainty over us is unusual. I've been asking Gorilla to post multiple times lately and I haven't a clue why he hasn't actually followed through on it yet but I'm giving him a few more days to put forward effort to the game otherwise I'll play this entirely solo. In regards to your Gaoth vote, I strongly agree with your suspicious of him and also don't think Farside/Oversoul are a likely scum-team but it doesn't change the fact that he's not the optimal lynch for today, we already know he's not the roleblocker and therefore aiming for the roleblocker is best play.

[Duplicity]

1. You still need to expand on why farside is town other than she's being stubborn which you have established as a null tell.
2. What scum team do you see that doesn't involve Gaoth right now?
3. If you think I'm town, why would Oversoul-scum ignore the guilty on me?

1. I don't have a strong town read on her at all, nor do I even really have a town read on her, it's very possible that she's scum but at the same time I'm not reading her play as overly scummy. The one thing that does strong point towards her being scum though is PoE.

2. Honestly, I ran through this on a sheet of paper a while ago and have lost it but I'll try and do it again;

Possible Scum Teams

1. Farside + Oversoul

2. Farside + Tragedy

3. Farside + Scumhunter

4. Farside + Gaoth

5. Oversoul + Tragedy

6. Oversoul + Gaoth

7. Oversoul + Scumhunter
8. Gaoth + Scumhunter

9. Gaoth + Tragedy

10. Tragedy + Scumhunter

Note: I'm ruling out any pairing that involves Tragedy as right now she's the only person Gorilla is confident that is town and I agree with him on it. Farside and Oversoul don't read like a buss. I'm also still reading your play and interaction with Benmage as you being likely town therefore I'll cross of combinations involving you for now. That leaves:

Likely Scum Teams:

4. Farside + Gaoth
6. Oversoul + Gaoth

So yes, you're correctly if you're indeed town I don't see a potential scum-team that doesn't involve Gaoth.

3. To continue to buddy up towards me and to fit in with the crowd that's suggesting that you're town at the moment.

[Duplicity]

I am Impostor, townie Illusionist. Each night I can choose a Flame Warrior, and a role to impersonate.

There we go. That makes a LOT more sense. I do want your full list of choices to 'impersonate' along with your actual selections. Also explaining your reluctance on claiming earlier would be appreciated.

Vote: Gaoth

I would also be willing to move to Farside if the vig is willing to promise to shoot Gaoth tonight.

[Duplicity]

Also explaining your reluctance on claiming earlier would be appreciated.

When I say this I want you to run through your exact thought process because "There's a chance that they might check me and think I'm doc and thus shoot me tonight" is a massive stretch of logic.

[Duplicity]

Like tell you what ridiculous impersonations I made or try and make them aim for the VTs as Docs? Why wouldn't I do that in case there is another doc...?

Allow me to rephrase; The only potential benefit there would have been to not fully claiming early today would be hoping to draw a night-kill. Scum are not going to night kill you over a claimed cop or claimed vig unless they thought for some strong reason you were a doctor. Now what you're essentially saying is that you were hoping to be rolecopped(?) when selecting to impersonate a doctor and therefore draw the night-kill of not tonight but the following night. The likelihood of any of that occurring is so low that I'm failing to see any logical reasoning behind not outright claiming today when we mass-claimed.

What I did want from you thought is a list of your selections as in:
N1: Impersonated X, was X.
N2: Impersonated Y, was Y and so forth.

[Duplicity]

CATFISH and Oversoul, you two should move your votes to Gaoth.

[Duplicity]

Scumhunter, do you see any other potential scum-team other than Gaoth + Farside?

[Duplicity]

Hmmmm. Is it just me or is it a bit much to have both scumhunter's and oversoul's roles in this game?

I don't see any real similarity between their roles. From what I can tell Oversouls roles job is to confuse the mafia rolecop and his breadcrumb of asking Benmage to check him backs up his claim whereas Scumhunters roles job is to reduce the effectiveness of the cop.

On the other hand if we believe all the claims so far then we just need 1 more and can lynch who's left over. But that really depends on us trusting every claim so far

I'll run through it quickly:

1. CATFISH is essentially confirmed town via mafia unlikely having a chance at double-killing, the only instance where I can see that being possible is if scum had a Mafia Bookie but with that said none of the lynches this game have exactly been predictable (With the exception being the Primate lynch of course) and I don't see her using a scum extra kill to shoot Dramonic a highly suspected player. Furthermore use of her ability tonight will completely confirm her as town.

2. Sir Bastion is essentially confirmed town via guiltying and leading on two scum as well as guiltying a miller claim. No need to go any further into that.

3. Oversouls imposter claim doesn't really make any sense as scum as it wouldn't give them any benefit at all, the only real scum role I can see for imposter is godfather and fake claiming a PR with that doesn't make all that much sense. Furthermore, as stated above his breadcrumb means he's probably town.

4. Scumhunters miller claim is a lot more iffy, it means inclusion of a great deal of power roles in the setup with the exact number being 6/16 however at the same time majority of the power roles are incredibly weak. For instance Miller and Impostor don't exactly enhance towns chances of winning greatly and 1-Shot Neighbourizer is also relatively weak even with the added snippet to it.

[Duplicity]

Assuming all claims are indeed correct the scum have to be in between Farside, Gaoth and Tragedy however considering the iffyness of Scumhunters claim I'd stick him back in that pile for safekeeping. Given my strong town-read on Tragedy I would say that if Gaoth + Farside aren't the scum-team (As in if either somehow flip town) then Scumhunter is probably mafia.

[Duplicity]

From what I can tell:

I claimed VT because I was going to impersonate tonight as a doctor and hopefully draw the nightkill (although this makes less sense if they knew I was a nk immune miller vig) which is why I claimed VT.

I felt that if there were any doctors left, diluting the pool of potential doctors even further was beneficial.

[Duplicity]

My problem is simple the number of pro town roles seem to greatly outnumber the scum roles making me suspect of everything now.

I don't know how new you are to mafiascum but the number of town power roles always outnumber the scum power roles, secondly in a setup with 16 players 4-5 power roles is common. We have 6 claims here but the weakness of some of the power roles make it reasonable that all of the claims are legitimate.

Wait you expect me to believe the mod gives free reigh over what ever a player wants and you did not pick tracker, watcher, gunsmith or any ability that would help the town?

You clearly don't understand his role claim at all. He DOESN'T get the ability, he merely is viewed to have it so if he were rolecopped that role would show up.

@ Oversoul -

I do have one question for you though, if your intention was to be viewed as a doctor and shot why did you not pick doctor every night?

[Duplicity]

@ Oversoul -

Last question; Why select a role that could potentially have you guiltied especially when a cop had already claimed?

[Duplicity]

I THINK it's:

Gaoth (3): Duplicity, Scumhunter, Sir Bastion.
Duplicity (1): Gaoth
Sir Bastion (0):
scumhunter (0):
CATFISH (0):
Oversoul (1): CATFISH
Farside22 (0):
Tragedy (0):

Not voting: Tragedy, Oversoul, Farside.
5 to lynch.