DC Universe Large theme GAME OVER

[Pine]

/reconfirm

Even if we're unable to recover, I think we ought to continue with what we've got. There have been too many claims, flips, and so forth to reboot without completely changing the setup, which effectively makes it an entirely different game.

[Pine]

So I'll be reviewing my notes. I have a Not-Red-Pirates result but want some input from other players first.

Zeek

- please explain to me why a Town Doctor isn't dead this morning. I'd like your plausible explanation as to why that is.

I agree it is a bit odd, but to play devil's advocate scum might have been wanting to have this exact response. Alternatively each scum team could have hoped the other team killed the doc.

In other news: how do you read the archives? I can only get page 27 to work for some reason.

In other other news: can't really remember the context but I have this saved to my desktop so I thought I'd repost for discussion and lulz:

I WANTED TO LYNCH MONEYBAGS HURR DURR

FAIL ON YOU, ASSHAT

vote: brizzy

, btw. Brizzy, you have ignored my case long enough.

It's been a while...in 25 words or less?

I vaguely remember something about wagon analysis...

Wasnt that about how long it would take Pine to flake?

I don't flake, jackass, and...are you ACTUALLY voting for the uncountered Cop who was apparently Doc-saved N2? Seriously?

As of now, I'm tentatively believing both Zeek and MoI. MoI is uncountered and had no reason to fakeclaim, Zeek claiming to Doctor MoI and there being a missing kill and no dead MoI N2 lines up correctly.

Who was it that claimed Red Robin?

[Pine]

Let me ask you Nero - why are you so dead set on looking for Red Pirate scum as opposed to looking for scum from the Marvel Alliance?

I'm not.

Yet every post you have made today has been pushing "Let's look for Moneybag's partners". Which is 100% searching for RedPirates and 0% looking for the Marvel Alliance.

Why is this a problem? We're down by two Red Pirate scum, with no known Marvel scum. Therefore, we have both initiative and superior information on the Red Pirates, as well as a living Red Pirate cop and the opportunity to perhaps ELIMINATE an entire anti-faction at an early stage of the game.

Why the fuck SHOULDN'T we be focusing on the remaining Red Pirate(s)?

[Pine]

@Pine: What was your role name again?

I'm Captain Marvel, a Miller.

The name "Captain Marvel" is used by both Marvel Comics and DC Comics for entirely different characters, which has resulted in fan confusion and legal disputes between the two companies. Hence, Miller.

Also, I pondered the third death on N1 over the break, and it seems quite possible that the Serial Killer (if we have one) is someone from Dark Horse, perhaps Hellboy, Buffy, or someone from a Frank Miller creation.

[Pine]

Umm, obviously he did give a least a version of his real role, so that's a moot point. Faking a result is only plausible if Thor is one of his teammates, as Thor backed up the claim of Green Arrow. The odds of faking a name result on an uncooperative target and actually getting it right are pretty close to incalculable given the number of DC characters out there.

Therefore, the role/name cop claim was truthful, OR Thor is Redscum and DX simply gave Thor's prepared fakeclaim.

Actually, given that review, I'm leaning towards lynching Thor just to be safe, as DX did NOT actually flip namecop, and most rolecop interpretations do not provide the target's name.

[Pine]

In fact:

Vote: Thor

[Pine]

Are you high?

Either DX was a Namecop and correctly reported Thor's name, or he is Thor's scumbuddy and gave a prepared fakeclaim.

The vast majority of rolecops do not learn the target's name. They learn the ROLE. Otherwise, they'd be NAMEcops.

DX flipped ROLEcop.

Ergo, DX either had a VERY unusual interpretation of Rolecop powers, or Thor is perhaps the last remaining member of a scumteam. There's almost no reason we shouldn't lynch Thor.

[Pine]

I'm still quite convinced that lynching Moneybags (who was in fact scum hurrdurr) and letting DX live for another couple of nights was the right course.

Although we would have had to discount anything he said about cleared Town (for the reason we are now dismissing his clear on Thor) and he never would have handed us one of his own buddies, he very well might have outed a Marvelscum for us, or a Serial Killer. A result of the Hulk or Hellboy (if he were a Namecop) or "immune to investigations" or "bulletproof killer" (as a Rolecop) would be pretty indefensible.

We lost an opportunity by having a hair trigger on the lynch.

[Pine]

Can't open that file.

[Pine]

Today's pretty straightforward as far as I'm concerned. The more I think about it, the more I'm certain.

There's only two ways that DX could possibly have gotten Thor's "Green Arrow" name correct. Either they're buddies, and Thor was just supporting his mate's play, or DX had a very unusual variant of the rolecop role.

Which of these is more likely? Very unusual role that is contradicted by its flip, or Thor being forced to back a buddy's play. No contest.

Thor is the obvious lynch for today. The potential for eliminating a source of kills at this early stage of the game cannot be passed up. It would be an immeasurable advantage to Town, and MoI's exclusivity in hunting Marvel is weird.

[Pine]

That never works. Ever.

[Pine]

I wouldn't weep tears of blood if Pizza got lynched today or vigged tonight. This stubborn and intractable resistance against doing anything useful goes well beyond mere lurking.

PE: lol. Watching MoI. MoI is being an insufferable asshat, but he's so obvTown it's painful. Zeek is probably Town. Listing Syndrome as an "afterthought" looks like a bus in context.

[Pine]

"Not doing anything remotely pro-Town"? I led the charge on Moneybags you myopic fuck. Your bullshit theories about cross-kills is massively flawed. The scumteams are far more likely to kill Town than each other, and as such, the possibility of eliminating one of those teams early cannot be ignored. In Mini 1298, one of the scumteams got eliminated on Day Two due to a lucky night kill and an obvious slip. The Town had two or three whole extra days that I hadn't planned on to find the other team.

You're being an asshat, period.

Town

1) MOI - Obviously Town
2) Zeek - Probably Town. Claims to have saved MoI, and from the spread of NKs, I tend to believe it*
6) ThAdmiral - Everything so far that ThAd's done has felt distinctly Towny to me. I struggled with whether to place him in this category or not, as past experience has led me to very very cautious of his abilities as scum, but I'm not even getting stray vibes this time
11) LynchMePls - I've approved of almost everything he's had to say so far. The push on Brizzy is pretty solid, and he's been generally sensible about who's who
12) pidgey - The whole ruckus against pidgey pre-reboot seemed contrived and nonsense. I get a strong general impression from him that he's trying (though failing) to figure things out

Unwashed Masses

8) SnakePlissken - I've got nothing here, really. He's not really doing much that's great, but neither is he
10) GhostWriter - Hasn't given jack since the reboot, except to complain about not having access to what came before. I recall having mixed feelings about him, but nothing solid either way.
13) girth - Seems fairly Townish, and despite being a bit lurky, he's giving decent content when he posts. The only thing I've got against him is that he fits into my search criteria below
16) KageLord - Has done jack shit all game. I had a generally Town-leaning vibe from him pre-reboot, but need more from him
18) syndromeofadown - I'm not really reading the syndrome hate. He seems more like a bump on a log so far, not really putting out anything adventurous and mostly going with the flow.
20) Nero Cain - There's some strong points in both direction for Nero. He's done some stuff that struck me really odd, and he's done stuff that struck me as really pro-Town. I'm generally just undecided about him.
21) Looker - Who? Is this guy even playing?

Scum Pool

9) Pizzadudes7 - Aggressively useless, even when called on it. See a couple of posts ago, and below, for details.
14) kondi2424 - Useless at best, and now's not his best. He's more of an impediment than help, and has a history of doing dumbass things like shooting at a Cop with a living Doc around
15) BrizzyBoi - His four killers theories absolutely reeks of someone who expected his victim to die, but they didn't. Also, see below
17) Thor665 - The scum ROLEcop guessed his name correctly? Bullshit. This is the best candidate for the last Red Pirate
22) DRey - Didn't like Dekes' lurky ass, and I'm not a fan of DRey. DRey is also the prime suspect for the below.

*This actually raises an interesting point that I hadn't before considered. It looks like the Red Pirates went for MoI last night, but with a claimed Doc out there, that's tantamount to deciding not to make a kill. Therefore, we can infer that the remaining Red Pirate(s) are either newbies who wouldn't have considered that, idiots, or high-risk high-reward gamblers. Pizza, Girth, Kondi, Brizzy, and especially DRey (who also would have been poorly informed due to replacement) come to mind. Thor works too, though only if he's expecting the Doc to get blocked or gambling on WIFOM

[Pine]

Kondi, shut the fuck up. Don't twist my words. You deserve a shot, but you don't get a blank slate. You've done some pretty dumbfuck stuff in the past, and while you don't deserve to be PLed, neither do you deserve a shiny gold star and my complete confidence.

[Pine]

MoI, well over half of my D2 posts were about Moneybags. Just because you're so tunnelled that you can't comprehend anything that doesn't align with your current fixation doesn't mean that those other arguments aren't there. I'd say take this to MD, but I don't care enough. Plus, you're pissing me off. I am now skipping everything you have to say that isn't on-topic.

Please reveal your results. There is no good reason not to.

[Pine]

There's no reason to hide them either, asshat. I'm just sick of you not listening to anything that anyone other than you says. So fuck off, I'm done with you.

[Pine]

^This is why I don't get the suspicion on Syndrome.

[Pine]

Unvote
Vote: Brizzy

[Pine]

I think Brizzy is more likely Marvel scum, but only because there are much better candidates for the last Red Pirate (I've decided to operate on the assumption of 3-member scumteams until proven otherwise).

So...B to the Cth power? Question was too simple for a complex assessment.

[Pine]

Brizzy or DRey need to go today.

Brizzy's crazy theory about four killers screams "confused scum" at me.

DRey has shoved all others aside and has bounded into the lead for my chief suspect as the last Red Pirate. He fits all of the criteria. He's both inexperienced enough and misinformed enough to try shooting the Cop assigned to his faction, he's made serious efforts to discredit that cop (292 is particularly damning on this count), his positions are crap, he doesn't give good reasons for his arbitrary suspicions, and his whole demeanor suggests the desperation of someone afraid that they're about to lose the game.

Yeah, I just talked myself into a DRey lynch.

Unvote
Vote: DRey

[Pine]

Nah, DRey is the last RP.

[Pine]

Then you aren't paying attention. The case has been made ad nauseum, and has not been defended. Granted, Brizzy flaked (which is a good enough reason not to pursue that slot's lynch today,) but failing to see or acknowledge the excellent case on brizzy is willful ignorance.

[Pine]

DRey is a much better lynch, but I'm willing to lynch Brizzy if necessary. That 4 killers theory is still inexcusable, though I'd rather hear from a replacement.

[Pine]

It's not the simple fact that he's speculating on 4 killers, it's HOW he's doing it. The way he phrases it and the wild theories about vigs and SKs, plus the fact that we saw 3 and 2 deaths, never a fourth, screams to me that he was expecting a death and didn't get it, and/or was expecting his or a buddy's flavor to show up and didn't see it. It's POSSIBLE that he's a Vig, but like a Gunsmith guilty, you don't take that chance.

Multiple injuries is NOT a guarantee of multiple killers, and even if there were, the simplest explanation is that a one-shot ability was used, as four full killers/factions is just insane.

[Pine]

I am uneasy at the prospect of someone getting hammered when they flaked like a week and a half ago, and haven't been replaced or given a claim. Brizzy's pretty high up on my suspect list, but the circumstances just give me the creeps.

Wagon shift onto DRey, gogogo.

[Pine]

It says a lot more about DRey's alignment than it does Brizzy's. Seriously. He's the best lynch for today, hands down.

[Pine]

Unless you'd be willing to reconsider Thor/nopointinactingup? Nah, never mind. DRey's an even safer bet than that.

[Pine]

For the record, I am quite ok with a drey Wagon/lynch if nobody else wants the flaking scum dead.

We more or less are all okay with it, with a few exceptions that keep mumbling "I don't see the case! So what if he thinks there are four killers without Town-oriented evidence to support it, that don't mean nothin'!" There's just a few of us who are uncomfortable and...

uneasy

with lynching a flaked, unclaimed player without waiting for a replacement to check in.

[Pine]

Pushing a Zeek case is ridiculous at this point. He's a claimed Doc who hasn't been counter-claimed, and evidence suggests that he may have actually saved your life N2, MoI. Your readiness to succumb to tunnel vision is a serious personal flaw.

[Pine]

You called it an "open case". Apparently, there some alternate interpretation of that phrase which

doesn't

mean "I'm going to pursue this as soon as it becomes feasible."

[Pine]

^lolwut

Reading the "open case" comment again, I see how I misinterpreted it.

[Pine]

DRey wagon has actually been really slow. It's taken like a week to develop. Derailment attempt noted

[Pine]

And it has gradually gathered steam and weight over the last week as almost all of those mentioned, as well as others, have discussed moving over onto it.

Actual votes are not the only thing that matters. DRey has been in the collective top three suspects for almost a week now.

[Pine]

My point is that it didn't come from nowhere; this is not an out-of-the-blue flashwagon, and your frantic attempts to derail it look really suspicious.

[Pine]

I don't know. I don't think that even Kondi would be this aggressively bad as scum. He's simply not even making any pretense to Towniness. Think about when you're scum. You try to fit in to Town. There's all sorts of ways to do this, but you definitely don't do it by alienating everyone you interact with, and you don't do it by being a completely useless fucking tool. Lurk, yes. Ambivalently troll, not so much.

[Pine]

Seriously, Kondi. He has a point. I've got a pretty solid Townread out of your belligerent idiocy, but you're shaking it with your inability to form an opinion even when pressed

[Pine]

For starters, 13 games is too many. You're spreading yourself too thin, making your usual worthlessness into actual counterproductiveness. AND inflicting it on many people.

Second, answer the fucking questin. Either replace out or give opinions and scumreads in your next post, or so help me I will PL you tomorrow without mercy.

[Pine]

Me?

Nero, honestly cuz gut and crap posts, and Looker, because I remember his posts being complete BS.

PEdit: kk

I replaced Looker with Pizza for lying about not completing any scum games. So that would be DRey, Nac, and Pizza.

As for the latter, 1. I'm definitely not as useless as Pizza, and 2. I'm in like 13 or so games.

THIS? That is laughably insufficient. More or replace out. No excuses. Next post or PL

[Pine]

Don't you dare blame me for that. Kondi is occasionally competent, but when spread across thirteen games, he's worse than useless. His absence isn't what's killng us, it's all the silent fuckers

[Pine]

I can live with a Brizzy slot death.

Jason, we're not in disaster mode yet. If I may suggest, let us limp along to the end of the day, then have an extra long night phase. Take your time, replace all slots, and give them ample time to catch up. I don't know about you folks, but I'm too invested in this game to want to see it just evaporate.

[Pine]

I concur with the above.

Unvote
Vote: Brizzy

[Pine]

You can offer me to cross-replace too.

[Pine]

Awww, why'd you give the dead slot to a fun player?

[Pine]

Mastin catching up and giving opinions is good regardless of whether we kill him today, and regardless of his alignment. If he's Town, opinions are good. If he's one of the two primary scum factions, he may have special insight into hunting the other party. And if he's a Serial Killer, he'll have just as much incentive to expose the scumteams as Town does.

[Pine]

Unvote
Vote: DRey

More comfortable with a DRey lynch. If it were someone else, I'd be less inclined to let the Brizzy slot slide for a day. Mastin, though, is absolutely fantastic as a replacement. Even if he's scum, he may very well spot something we've missed and hand us one of his opponents.

[Pine]

@Mastin: I'm voting for DRey because he reeks of scum. In the long run, you can be beneficial to Town. In the short run, I'm not going to just

change

any reads based on what you have, especially ones contrary to my strongest reads that I've had for weeks now.

DRey is fucking scum. Period. You haven't been around long enough to see it yet. Catch up, read the thread, and then we'll talk.

@Nero: Fuck you. You knew all of the above. Mastin at least has the excuse of not being caught up. Have half a dozen scumpoints for your opportunistic smearing attempt.

[Pine]

I have role-based info which STRONGLY suggests one of MoI and Zeek is fakeclaiming scum. What say you to that?

UNVOTE: DRey
VOTE: Mastin2

Funny that said 'role based information' was never mentioned by Brizzy despite being under pressure from Zeek.

Prediction - you try to explain this away as "reaction fishing".

Sorry I had to break my commitment but this post pretty much requires it.

Yeah...I'm inclined to agree. I am forced to call bullshit. Mastin's perspectives on the opposing scumteam are valuable, but he's too clever to be allowed to establish himself as inviolable with a PR softclaim. Mafia On Werewolf Island for example.

Unvote
Vote: Mastin/Brizzy slot

Apologies for my recent absence, I've had very limited access to the site in the last few days. It's been site-wide, confirm here if need be.

[Pine]

The bit about the "How could SOAD guess multiscum" that I don't buy is that I mentioned in my first post that I was Marvel-Miller. That tips us off right away to multiscum, as I'd have simply received "Miller" if it were mono-scum. I've been waiting for SOAD to mention this, but he hasn't.

[Pine]

FTR, I voted Mastin because his softclaim makes no sense. Brizzy would have claimed something if he'd been able to, and Mastin's made no effort to cross-hunt. He just keeps throwing dirt on Town PRs

[Pine]

L-1

Fullclaim

[Pine]

Heh, you think Mastin ever finishes.

Mastin, I'd appear as something like "Investigates as Marvel Alliance" to a rolecop. If I were fakeclaiming, it'd reveal a killing ability contrary to my claim. Your theory about me and rolecops is just flat wrong.

[Pine]

Obvscum? Wtf are you talking about?

Vote: DRey

[Pine]

Fuck you, scum. Explain the case on SOD without using the "slip" of him referencing multiscum. We all ha reason to suspect multiscum because of my role, so that's evidence of nothing

[Pine]

Bullshit. The scumteam doesn't get a fancy name when it's the only one. My role PM directly referenced the Marvel Alliance, and so did I in my first post. You're cruising for an easy lynch based off a very simple leap in logic - one which I had also made, as soon as I read my role PM.

@MoI: I'm pretty sure DRey is going to kick off our Marvel hunt

[Pine]

I don't recall saying that. You and Brizzy were my strongest scumreads, and I was fairly sure one of you was the last RP. Don't put words in my mouth.

Additionally, none of the evidence against you was associative. You're scum regardless of team.

MoI, I've provided evidence ad nauseum against DRey. Go look it up.

[Pine]

Bah. Fine, I'll pull together the whole case. I was probably going to have to do it anyway.

[Pine]

Mastin claimed Batman and wasn't countered. Batman is therefore a mod-provided fakeclaim.

[Pine]

Can people stop speculating about the Vig? Every time you do, you're giving the Marvel scum clues as to who

isn't

the Vig, and crossing names off their hit list.

[Pine]

MoI, have you considered that the RP Ninja might be the balancing factor to the Miller? RP being entirely immune to one form of detection might balance well with Miller, particularly as site meta has the teeth pulled out of Millers a bit, given they're expected to make themselves known.

[Pine]

@ThAd: For both teams exist/existed a role that confounds or weakens an investigator. Marvel is stronger against Cops, RP was stronger against observers.

[Pine]

^What is this santorum?

[Pine]

He was clearly talking about the Town roles - Deltawave and MoI.

I don't really have much issue with Nacho right now. He's being derpy, but he's thinking. Much more interested in DRey and Snake.

[Pine]

How do you balance the Ninja, then? Unless you're suggesting both teams have one? The more I think, the more I think the Ninja is the balancing role. RP weaken the value of Trackers/Watchers against them, Marvel weaken the value of Cop against them. Simples.

[Pine]

DRey, why should we lynch SOD? You still haven't come up with a satisfactory answer. What, do you and your buddies have a rolecop result on him or something?

[Pine]

DRey: Your case on SOD is based entirely on him speculating multiscum in 25-player, which is very, very reasonable given recent site trends. It also came AFTER I had already speculated the same, and mine is based on actual clues from my role PM.

Please confirm that this is the basis for your case.

-----

Nacho: Your case is based on my Miller claim, and ignores a very reasonable possibility that Ninja and Miller balance one another, favoring instead an implausible suggestion that both teams might have Ninjas. This latter possibility rendering any Town Trackers or Watchers, which the existence of Ninjas nigh-confirms, entirely useless. In other words, it is 100% unsubstantiated setup spec.

Please confirm that this is the basis for your case.

------

Calling Marvel: DRey, Nacho, Snake. GG Town

[Pine]

Your case is based on my Miller claim, and ignores a very reasonable possibility that Ninja and Miller balance one another, favoring instead an implausible suggestion that both teams might have Ninjas. This latter possibility rendering any Town Trackers or Watchers, which the existence of Ninjas nigh-confirms, entirely useless. In other words, it is 100% unsubstantiated setup spec.
Please confirm that this is the basis for your case.

Ninjas are immune to trackers and watchers, meaning that one role is safe from trackers and watchers.
Millers mess up exactly ONE investigation, meaning that they don't actually neutralize cops against them at all.
They do not fucking balance each other.

No, my only alternative was not that both teams had ninjas. My alternative is that the scumteams instead had equal power, as opposed to one having less because the other one has a miller. You're pretending that ninja and miller are natural opposites, but from where I'm standing, multiscum games in theme park haven't had a miller to one specific faction and not to the other since... never.

Bzzt! Wrong. Having a Ninja means that the ENTIRE TEAM is immune to having their factional kill observed. Compare that to a Miller, which merely fucks with a Cop. Ninja is a

more

powerful role than Miller, which is kind of the opposite of what you're trying to push in terms of balance. If anything, the existence of a Marvel Miller is too little to balance the existence of a RP Ninja.

[Pine]

@Split: Throat slit is probably vig because the kill pattern has been very pro-Town, plus the flavor simply makes sense. Your continued denial of MoI's confirmed Town status is laughably bad. As either scum or Town.

@Nacho: Perhaps. Quite frankly, I don't know how it's balanced, because we haven't seen any Marvel flips. However, we know that roles exist on both sides to dick with investigators. You started this round of setup spec, not me.

@Haylen: Zeek's probably still alive precisely so people will ask that question.

[Pine]

Because there was a Cop assigned to the other faction too, in exactly the same manner as MoI's claim. The fact that he hasn't been counter-claimed. The fact that N2 there was a missing kill after MoI claimed Red Pirate Cop, and Zeek claimed to have protected MoI that night. How about the fact that everything MoI has done since D2 or so has been incredibly Townish.

Shall I go on, or would you like a shovel, so you can dig yourself deeper?

[Pine]

MoI wouldn't be going aggro on confirmed Town. He's not that stupid.

[Pine]

Furcolow, could you be any more anti-Town when you're Town*? I'd consider (though ultimately discard) the idea of a PL, but that's what Mod made Vigs for.

*PoE, and scum would at least do the 30 seconds' research to know what they're fakeclaiming. Apathy of that magnitude is Town

[Pine]

I think you should be vigged because I don't trust you in LyLo. Pretty simple, actually. 953 doesn't make sense, in part because I'm not

attacking

you. I'm

dismissing

you.

[Pine]

Unvote
Vote: Snake

That's pretty bad, Snake

[Pine]

I'm here, reading now. I had to do something awesome, you have my full attention now.

Yeah you did.

Haylen should I be policy lynching you out of spite right now?

Nah, she deserves

props

, not spite for that. That was incredibly ballsy (ovaries-y?) and it deserves respect.

For those out of the loop, go look up what Haylen and her team did in 1304. She 100% deserves the Scummy nod.

[Pine]

Please elaborate on how I have 'too much knowledge'. I'd like you to definitively spell out how I have such. Make sure to show how it parallels how your slot knew that there were 4 kills Night 1 when only 3 appeared and said so immediately Day 2.

I've attempted to explain this before, but here it is again. How could you know for certain (certain enough to lynch, anyway) that someone had too much knowledge of the setup to be town unless you also have that knowledge.

I don't know why my predecessor said that. Perhaps it had to do with the Multiple Injuries Nightwing suffered bringing the kill flavors to a potential four. Perhaps there were five attempts with Nightwing receiving 3? Perhaps there were only 3 with Multiple Injuries being a single kill flavor. Town won't know for sure until the end of the game.

You were quick to jump on that as a scumslip, and are also "95%" sure (which is a number I'm 100% sure you pulled out of thin air) that the throat slit is a town vig. You exhibit surety in the game setup while condemning it in others. By your standards, you should lynch yourself.

^What the fuck is this? Five attempts? No.

[Pine]

Unvote
Vote: Split

<--L-2

Yep. This is what we're doing today. Not as good as a DRey or Snake lynch, but there's at least three of them, so we do what we do.

Welcome back, Kondi. What's your take on things?

[Pine]

Actually, Terry McGinnis

did

make the transition to comics eventually, and under the DC label.

Other than that, I have little problem with your points, though I'm concluding VI-Town based largely on PoE. Too many people are far more likely to be scum.

[Pine]

WAIT: There's a GUILTY on Zeek, he's not a claimed Miller and he's still ALIVE? The next person to post had better give me a good explanation. Dafuk. Zeek (#66) says MoI never got a guilty on him? Argh.

What are you smoking? No one ever claimed a guilty on Zeek. Or anyone, come to think of it. Cops in this game so far have come up with bupkis.

[Pine]

I heard you on Snake, ThAd. Small consolation, I know.

[Pine]

Actually, Terry McGinnis

did

make the transition to comics eventually, and under the DC label.

Other than that, I have little problem with your points, though I'm concluding VI-Town based largely on PoE. Too many people are far more likely to be scum.

I've never read a comic with this guy, and I've read DC comics

a lot

, truth to be told it has been years I've read anything about DC, but which character do you think is more likely to see on this game?
a) Terry mcginis, batman of the future
b) The dark knight, Bruce Wayne, THE batman himself!

My own character is pretty well known and until now we have seen Green Lantern Hal, Flash, Commish Gordon, Nightwing, Green Lantern John Stewart, Green Arrow, Lex Luthor, Catwoman. From all this characters the only one I don't remember reading about was this John Stewart.
When we start to see Alura, Awesome Threesome, Atlan, Black Bison, Doctor No-Face or Molecule flipping I may start to believe Terry mcginnis may be a real claim until that happens, I will be pushing for Furc head.

This is a big part of why you're scum. One of your main points is pure, pure setup speculation. It's not even mechanical spec, it's flavor spec. Die in a fire.

[Pine]

Scumtastic, add Kondi to my list of preferred lynches.

Could you

possibly

reach any more? Replacing out because of real life is about as non-game-related as you can get.

[Pine]

He's replacing out of like, a dozen games. It's not game-related, dumbass.

[Pine]

Just double-checked that assertion. He replaced out of five games, all within a short time of one another using the exact same reason, and has only posted in one game since.

It's not related to this game. Check the timestamps. This confirmation took less than five minutes. You are THAT lazy, and reaching THAT much.

[Pine]

Only nameclaim.

[Pine]

Kondi claimed Red Robin, not Sinestro.

[Pine]

MoI, to be perfectly honest I couldn't careless if you voted me right now. Before the collapse, I stated I am Yellow Lantern Sinestro and Vanilla Townie.

^This is relevant

[Pine]

Also, we believe the Red Pirates team to be eliminated. Moneybags made some comment to the effect that he believed both teams to have three players each, and they're down by three. SK is also dead, though there is evidence of a fourth killer, probably a Vig. We believe the Vig to have the "slit throat" kill flavor, based on their very pro-Town kill pattern.

Therefore, the (probable) only remaining anti-Town team is the Marvel Alliance. My role PM states that all investigations will return as if I were a part of that team, and unfortunately, the Cop assigned to the Marvels was killed N1.

[Pine]

Also, we believe the Red Pirates team to be eliminated. Moneybags made some comment to the effect that he believed both teams to have three players each, and they're down by three. SK is also dead, though there is evidence of a fourth killer, probably a Vig. We believe the Vig to have the "slit throat" kill flavor, based on their very pro-Town kill pattern.

Therefore, the (probable) only remaining anti-Town team is the Marvel Alliance. My role PM states that all investigations will return as if I were a part of that team, and unfortunately, the Cop assigned to the Marvels was killed N1.

Pine, I see that you've decided to let MoI fight your battles and instead point out useless bullshit.

I don't care to let MoI fight my battles, you don't have a real case. No one's paying attention to you, and even if I were scum, I wouldn't view you as a threat. The quoted is a brief summary of the current situation for Yates's benefit, which makes it pretty fucking far from useless.

Reach more.

[Pine]

Also, we believe the Red Pirates team to be eliminated. Moneybags made some comment to the effect that he believed both teams to have three players each, and they're down by three. SK is also dead, though there is evidence of a fourth killer, probably a Vig. We believe the Vig to have the "slit throat" kill flavor, based on their very pro-Town kill pattern.

Therefore, the (probable) only remaining anti-Town team is the Marvel Alliance. My role PM states that all investigations will return as if I were a part of that team, and unfortunately, the Cop assigned to the Marvels was killed N1.

Pine, I see that you've decided to let MoI fight your battles and instead point out useless bullshit.

I don't care to let MoI fight my battles, you don't have a real case. No one's paying attention to you, and even if I were scum, I wouldn't view you as a threat. The quoted is a brief summary of the current situation for Yates's benefit, which makes it pretty fucking far from useless.

Reach more.

If I don't have a real case, you should at least be able to lend a moment of your time to refute at least some of the bullshit, right?

Why? The vast majority of it has to do with my motives, and about the best I can do with that is say "Nope."

[Pine]

...da fuk

Anyway, I'm pretty much ready for a flip. We kind of need one, lots of associative stuff happened today.

[Pine]

Scratch that, forgot that Yates hasn't caught up yet. Want him to chime in first.

[Pine]

There's much better suspects than LMP or SOD. Snake, Nacho, and Split are all much more likely to be scum than they are.

I couldn't agree more about DRey, though. Split wagon has stalled something awful, I'm ready to go back to my day-start vote. He's actually managed to get scummier as the day progressed.

Unvote
Vote: DRey

[Pine]

Dear Magna,

Wagons ALSO stall when the Town is being stupid. As they are now in dragging their feet on Split. The momentum is gone, and he's puttng too much effort into defense to make it easy to build it up again.

DRey is his buddy, as you aptly demonstrated with your recent point aganst him (he stated your case was good, yet refuses to vote the only wagon of any significance) and as he demonstrated with his point against himself when he jumped down Yates' throat from accruing one vote. Need I remind you, DRey is another scum wagon that fizzled? Scumflip from either confirms the other, so order matters little. This is where the momentum is.

[Pine]

He's replacing out of like, a dozen games. It's not game-related, dumbass.

ok how am i supposed to know that? I'm sorry I don't spend as much time on here as you do.

Expect an epic fucking post from me you fucking douchebag prick and you might be in it because ill be isoing your faggot ass first

How were you supposed to know that? He said it right in his replace out post! I verified it in like thirty seconds by going to his profile and clicking "Display all posts by user." He replaced out of all but one game, all at the same time.

Look, you're probably Town by PoE, so PULL YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS

[Pine]

So...we're taking drunkposts and Kondi (

Kondi

for fuck's sake) as serious subjects of discussion?

This day needs to end. Split or DRey, those are our two options. Everyone please, make a declaration in your next post about whether you're willing to lynch either or both.

Personally, I am ambivalent about which we lynch today, with a slight preference for DRey.

[Pine]

*EBWOP: Kondi replacing out of a game he swore he wouldn't replace out of ought to have been the second half of that first sentence.

[Pine]

Do you not have a smartphone, ThAd? I know for me, it's pretty addictive. I have definitely been known to go on Mafiascum while under chemical influence, though I usually retain the good sense not to make a fool of myself. Not too hard to extrapolate though

[Pine]

Yates, are you paying attention? No, seriously, are you?

We have three dead Red Pirates. Moneybags (a dead Red Pirate) slipped at one point and implied there were three of them. What are you smoking by pursuing DRey for associative tells with a dead team? There are SO many better reasons to go after DRey, you don't have to actually

weaken

the case by presenting bad evidence.

[Pine]

^This is confirmed by flips. As to your other question directed at me, it's like a month old and now moot, as I was thinking DRey was a Red Pirate based on association with other suspected RPs.

[Pine]

Explain to us how were you able to successfully unlock your smartphone, type in the url, type in your username, type in your password, and navigate to this site yet misspell HALF of the words in your post including your OWN NAME TWICE???

Mine is set up to unlock without a password (which I would likely have by muscle memory anyway) and is the top bookmark on my internet browser. There is an option on the login page to KEEP you logged in; I never have to enter username and password. It goes directly to my MS bookmarks. I can open my phone and be on an MS thread within about five seconds.

This aspect of the case against Haylen needs to drop. It's completely bullshit, as she is far from the only person who has drunkposted via phone, myself included.

[Pine]

Actually, it is directed at me. You're questioning the habits of people who like to get drunk and post on their phone, not the activities of an individual. If I were to ignore your baseless attack, I'd give you permission to do the same next time I drunkpost. It's bullshit, and you need to drop it.

[Pine]

As pointed out it's a bit of Null fluff

This is my ENTIRE point. *If* it's null fluff, she should have been able to say something to the effect of what Pine said ON HER OWN. If she had, it could be dropped by EVERYONE and we could be moving on. Instead, it's festering and slowing the progression of the game.

I absolutely stand 100% by my assertion that her post was fabricated BS posting and that you absolutely need to track these kinds of statements. THAT was my first point. My second point was to ask a question that could have made this a null issue and taken it off the board [for now] so we could ignore it and move on to other things.

I have already spent way more energy on this than intended. So flame away and I'll just go ahead and ignore anything any of you say on the subject save Hayden herself.

If Haylen had said it herself (hint: she already has, more or less) you would have just continued to call it bullshit. Someone ELSE had to step in and say you were talking out of your ass, or you just would have kept going (hint: that's what you're doing ANYWAY, not sure why I bothered).

[Pine]

You also mentioned yourself a "worst case scenario" of 4/4/1/1 scum and SKs, MoI.

[Pine]

You also mentioned yourself a "worst case scenario" of 4/4/1/1 scum and SKs, MoI.

Question 1 - do you think the Throat Slit targets and flavor represent a non-Town kill source?
Question 2 - what relevance do you place between my hypothetical "Worst Case Scenario" discussion (which was only used to discuss the merits of a Mass claim) and ThAd's careful language choice to not clear Furc?

Answer 1 - Not really, but neither do I dismiss the possibility. Most of the reasoning behind calling "throat slit" the vig kill has to do with their targets. I don't know about you, but I like to eliminate the opposition in multiscum. Most people tend to focus on Town, which makes it more likely to be the Vig kill, but we don't have proof either way.
Answer 2 - None. But again, you're trying to apply your own certitude to someone else's reasoning. I have absolutely no confidence in a 4/4/1/1 scum distribution, as Town would be massively underpowered given the flips we've had so far. But attacking someone for using the same kind of "hedging your bets" reasoning that YOU JUST USED YOURSELF is ridiculous.

Massclaim is a bad idea.

[Pine]

Getting saved from a kill is usually enough to soft-clear someone as Town, MoI. I'll agree to disagree on this.

I am wary of the Pizza wagon. It's growing too fast and easy for my tastes.

[Pine]

I looked at it and thought "Actually, Nacho's sheep onto Pizza made him look kind of scummy...which makes Pizza's inversion of that fact really strange."

Still not really comfortable with the Pizza wagon, but I wouldn't mind seeing a flip out of him either.

[Pine]

How is SOD scum again?

[Pine]

Ohhh, THAT case. Thought you had a real one. My bad.

[Pine]

What? No. Your case is bad. Really, really bad. It always has been, and you refuse to do pretty much anything else other than defend yourself and OMGUS.

[Pine]

What is? Your rambling is hard to follow.

[Pine]

What is? Your rambling is hard to follow.

IS says you tunnel, bro

And? I've freely admitted that that's a fault of mine, many times.

this is really frustrating to have to open up all of these old documents, have you done that at all, pine?

Yes, though I was around pre-crash, and I have a good memory. Haven't had to do it much except to verify a couple of things.

Zeek is pretty close to confirmed Town, Furc. There is evidence that he saved MoI on Night Two, and further evidence that he may have saved you last night. PE: Pizza's pushing of Zeek is further evidence against him, really.

[Pine]

@ pizza: can you give us your top 3 suspects. I notice you haven't mentioned who you are suspicious of in a while, if ever.

I would definitely put Zeek up there, as he seems to be trying to build a case from barely anything (and getting people to jump on it). Nacho just seems like scum who continues to jump in and out of the game so as to seem that he may be a VI. Last one I am not sure about. I know for a fact that lynching me is a bad idea for town.

Softclaim much? Looks like a setup to "I'm too valuable to be lynched" gambit.

[Pine]

In other words, I'm scum for suspecting you, and because you have fewer people to legitimately suspect these days? Bullshit.

Oh, by the way, I didn't say defending yourself is scummy. Doing so to the exclusion of all else, is.

[Pine]

Huzzah!

Vote: DRey

(Note to self: If SOD or Pizza flip scum, the above by SOD is tantamount to a scumbuddy claim)

[Pine]

No, you know what? As appealing as yet another DRey wagon is, I'd rather nail down this new connection. If my suspicion about that unvote off of Pizza is correct, then we'll be down two Marvel scum, and that's just too promising to pass up.

Unvote
Vote: Pizza

[Pine]

Actually, I thought I'd defaulted my vote to DRey at daystart, and only realized I hadn't when I checked on the size of the wagon when you bailed on the Pizza wagon.

Now here's the fuck YOU question: Why did you bail on a near-lynch wagon on an unapologetically-scummy player and onto an empty wagon?

[Pine]

Really? It takes you more than six minutes to open four pages in tabs, press control+F, and enter "vote: drey" into the dialog box? It took me about thirty seconds to check every page.

[Pine]

Just for reference, I did it again. Note the timestamps.

[Pine]

Damn straight.

Noticed you completely dodged my question in your haste to go WHO ME? WE'RE NOT PARTNERS! YOU'RE HIS PARTNER! YOU'RE SCUM! DIE DIE DIE! OH WAIT THAT DIDN'T MAKE SENSE, MY BAD? FRIENDS?"

Let me guess. Zeek voted for Pizza, and you didn't think it was going to actually ramp up, so you figured you'd throw down a meaningless distancing vote on him. Then it got near lynch, and you panicked and bailed. Have I got it right?

[Pine]

Actually, I thought I'd defaulted my vote to DRey at daystart, and only realized I hadn't when I checked on the size of the wagon when you bailed on the Pizza wagon.

Now here's the fuck YOU question:

Why did you bail on a near-lynch wagon on an unapologetically-scummy player and onto an empty wagon?

I didn't actually have a "big boner" for the Pizza lynch. There was a reason I wasn't on it. It looked a little too easy. With your abandon-ship attitude, though, I'm suddenly seeing the possibility of you two being buddies, and I'm more than willing to overlook my previous misgivings for a double scumlynch.



^This was my face when you resorted to using my picture as a means to discredit me. Any port in a storm, amirite?

[Pine]

Yeah, that's not an answer.

"Why'd you do it?"
"I wanted to."
"But why'd you want to?"
"I JUST WANTED TO!"

Yeah. Flail harder.

[Pine]

That said- is that really your picture, pine?

Yes

@Haylen: That's really all you've got? Seriously? Maybe you should replace out.

[Pine]

Under no circumstances do I support a massclaim at this point.

Red Pirates are dead. We know that more or less conclusively, unless they decided to go super stealth and make us think they were dead by no-killing each of the last several nights.

Given that, we know their size was three, and therefore the Marvel team is also likely three. That makes this 7:3. Assuming a mislynch and successful NK, that puts us down to 5:3. THAT would be LyLo. Can't you fucks do basic arithmetic?

Vote: Haylen

Enough is enough. I want some decent content out of you, or you hang. You've been powerlurking since you replaced in.

[Pine]

That's a pretty big assumption to make with nothing to suggest it's true. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Occam's Razor suggests otherwise.

[Pine]

Pine

- Let me get this straight ... after how yesterday developed your first instinct is to vote Haylen?

My instinct is that when my instincts prove to be wrong, that I shouldn't trust them. Circular I know.

[Pine]

[quote="In post 1400

My instinct is that when my instincts prove to be wrong, that I shouldn't trust them. Circular I know.

Nope, not flying. This is a non-answer. Why did you vote Haylen for policy reasons (not posting) when you’ve blithetly let people like Snake and Pizza cruise through the game?[/quote]
You misunderstand me. At this stage of the game, when we've made this many mistakes, and appear so far off-track, it is my instinct to think that we've been led around by our noses by the scum, and they're probably buried in the (unconfirmed) people we least suspect. In my case, that's Haylen, LMP, maybe ThAd and Furc.

[Pine]

Damn quote failure.

Also, in regard to Pizza and Snake, I haven't overlooked them. I was on board with regard to Pizza. Snake has mostly just been lurky enough to avoid notice.

[Pine]

@Pine

your role PM is just Captain Marvel? no name?

Billy Batson. I claimed that in literally my first post. Quit being lazy.

You misunderstand me. At this stage of the game, when we've made this many mistakes, and appear so far off-track, it is my instinct to think that we've been led around by our noses by the scum, and they're probably buried in the (unconfirmed) people we least suspect. In my case, that's Haylen, LMP, maybe ThAd and Furc.

A simpler explanation is that you are scum... just saying.

The simpler explanation is always to call someone scum. That was a completely useless comment.

[Pine]

^WTF is this shite?

Vote: SoD

[Pine]

Vote: Furcolow

I'd be fine with being lynched if it weren't LyLo. That Zeek vote looks strictly designed to facilitate a quicklynch.

[Pine]

I wrote a full PBPA (including the pre-crash stuff) on why pidgey is scum during the night. Oops.

@MOI I believe there's no RP anymore, last night there were just three kills:
a) the knife vig killed the SK.
b) the SK killed Green archer.
c)Marvel scum killed pidgey (this choice of kill is interesting, as he was far from cleared and flipped VT)
PLUS thanks to MB slipping "2x 3 scumteam" I'm pretty sure there's no more RP.

Is this MB slip in the pre-crash stuff? I'd like to see it.

While I see your logic on determining those kills, I don't get Marvel killing pidgey. It just doesn't make sense.

Why is Zeek still alive? It doesn't make sense that Marvel would kill pidgey (a perfectly fine mislynch) but leave Zeek alive (the only reason to leave zeek alive is to provoke a mislynch on the slot when he continues to live). They would be trading pidgey mislynch for zeek mislynch, which doesn't seem like a smart move at all. Why leave a claimed Doc alive hoping for a mislynch on it, but kill a perfectly viable mislynch instead?

Now that four kills N1 is likely, who were the people suggesting that? They should get heavy scrutiny. I'll go back and look for it.

TOWN
MOI

Pine
ThAdmiral
Haylen

syndromeofadown

Furcolow

**
Pizzadudes7**

Zeek

kondi2424
splitfarvle
Nachomamma8
SnakePlissken

DRey

SCUM

**These slots are essentially null.

Vote: DRey

Pretty flexible in our reads, aren't we?

[Pine]

And how were you SO CERTAIN that it wasn't Marvel that killed Pidgey in that post? There was absolutely no indication to the contrary.

[Pine]

@Furc YOU SOMEHOW AVOIDED THIS QUESTION FOR 2 DAYS. WHY HAVEN'T YOU CC MASTIN WHEN HE CLAIMED BATMAN?

Why do you keep pushing this angle? We were straight-up told in the rules that multiple people could have the same hero, just not the same individual that used the persona. It was even proven when we saw two different Green Lanterns flip, not to mention the multitude of Robin claims/flips.

I'm down with a Furc lynch, but pushing a badlogic point like that reeks of scum trying to get easy Towncred by bussing a buddy.

[Pine]

Why do you keep pushing this angle? We were straight-up told in the rules that multiple people could have the same hero, just not the same individual that used the persona. It was even proven when we saw two different Green Lanterns flip, not to mention the multitude of Robin claims/flips.

You are an idiot, my point is

not

"2 different batmans are a big nono" my point is

he haven't reacted to a batman claim

and when someone claim your own role I expect at least a "I don't think he's batman, I don't buy his claim". Furc has not reacted at all and that is a reason for me not buying his batman claim. His character is also the only one that's not originally from the comics.

Yeah, not arguing that Furcolow is scummy, just pointing out that your attack on him is just bad. Terry McGinnis and Bruce Wayne could absolutely have been in this game. We had already seen two Green Lanterns flip. Why the hell would another Batman claimant, particularly one that was a distinctly different behind-the-mask character, be cause for a counterclaim?

I don't consider my character to really be Batman. I figured he's at best someone who inherits a vig power, and at worst a miller, so I didn't really claim any random, stupid flavor to being a townie.

You confused me, miller? vig? wth are you talking about? Also copy and paste from your role PM the name and class of your role.

Pretty sure that's not allowed.

[Pine]

How is that not allowed? So everyone that has claimed his name and hero should have been modkilled. I could not have revealed I'm Super Girl AKA Kara Zor-El? BTW I'm not asking for a full role PM claim or the flavor. I just want the name and role.

You just asked for a direct quote or role PM, which is generally against the rules. Zeek had already claimed (Stephanie Brown, Batgirl) anyway, right when he originally claimed Doctor.

Hey Pine how old are you? Do you have an Iphone, or msn, AIM or AOL? (I don't want your data, I just want to know if you have or no).

I'm 26. I have an iPhone. The other three are pretty out of date, and irrelevant to boot.

[Pine]

I fail to see the point of all of this.

[Pine]

"Squirmed?" I called DRey out on his bullshit, and he turned around to ask me a series of increasingly irrelevant questions, you unmitigated tool. Respond to my accusation about your flexible reads.

[Pine]

Dude, it smelled like a trap. First time he asked personal questions, I was like "Umm, okay." Second time, I balked because it was increasingly off-topic. Instead of seriously answering my charges, he avoided them and started asking irrelevant shite. Are you seriously defending that?

To actually answer the off-topic questions, yes I have a smartphone, yes I'm online a lot, no, I actually very rarely check my email, no, I don't really like Facebook that much, yes, my hair is naturally red, my middle name is Edward, and no, I don't have a girlfriend.

Would you like to get more invasively personal, or would you like to discuss something that's actually relevant? Like how LMP is defending one of his all-game biggest scumreads and attacking one of his all-game biggest Townreads? Hmm?

Calling this: Furc, LMP, DRey. Fits like a glove.

[Pine]

Excuse me, when someone is asking me leading questions that stray off-topic, I ALWAYS assume they're trying to pull a "gotcha". Especially when someone they've been at odds with completely flips their reads around to back them up, ESPECIALLY when it's LyLo and they only need to secure one mislynch to snag the win. No. Bullshit. I'm calling shenanigans in a big way.

[Pine]

And you're now trying to say that your read on DRey has fluctuated? BULLSHIT. I just ISOed you. This is the ONE, SOLITARY post I could find of yours that indicates ANY thought on DRey other than that he's a major suspect of yours. At least, not until May 10th, where you COMPLETELY flip around and start buddying the FUCK out of him. That's ridiculously suspicious in my book, to distance the hell out of someone, then completely reverse your read on them in LyLo.

No. I don't buy this at all, and anyone that does should be utterly ashamed of themselves.

Unvote
Vote: LMP

Disingenuous, lurky, and now liar. Needs to die, and his buddies Furc and DRey after him.

DRey, why should we lynch SOD? You still haven't come up with a satisfactory answer. What, do you and your buddies have a rolecop result on him or something?

How I have not come with a satisfactory answer?

-SOD knew there was two scumteams before everyone.
-After being attacked for it, he came with the excuse "on another site I play it's always multiscum on 25 players games"
-After being asked for the supposed sites he plays mafia he says "it was a long time ago, the games doesn't exist anymore"
-After being asked for just the names of the sites that doesn't exist anymore (because I can find them even if they doesn't exist anymore) he comes with "..."

Considering all this PLUS the fact that 90% of the people here are ignoring my case against him in a similar way Zeek case was ignored PLUS pidgey was maybe the only one that paid real attention to my case and was Nked I'm convinced the guy is scum.
Mafia doesn't want to touch this issue thinking it will just disappear given enough time, but it will not because I won't let it go.

oh, it's been confirmed Pine's a miller?
my mistake, do you mind posting a link?

Is this some kind of joke? do you know what millers are? How can we ever confirm one is a

real

miller? Are you now trying to backtrack on your attack on Pine? The thing is: town never fakeclaim miller, so Pine can only be:
a)a miller
b)marvelscum fakeclaiming miller

While not impossible, B is very unlikely.

This is good posting.

[Pine]

I understand if ya'll want to lynch me, and I won't hold it against you or be bitter about it.

This strikes me as strange coming from Town. I guess it's possible, but this close to mylo/lylo going "Lynch me if you want" just feels... wrong.

Why did you hammer with no claim? SoD

Why are you acting like this doesn't happen every day on MS.net? People hammer without claims ALL THE TIME. Sometimes there are people even begging for it.

If there are 4 Marvels then this is MYLO. (Mislynch + Night kill = endgame)

The number of people that have hinted at a possible 4 man Marvel team is making me jumpy.

Pine

- Let me get this straight ... after how yesterday developed your first instinct is to vote Haylen?

My instinct is that when my instincts prove to be wrong, that I shouldn't trust them. Circular I know.

This is really weasely. Coming from a town read, I AM DISAPPOINT.

Now a full Nacho ISO. And my how that was enlightning.

If there was doubt Pine is scum that doubt is now over. Nacho ISO consist of:
-attacking me because he believed I was RP, later he changed his stance as it was obvious I'm not scum.
-attacking Pine relentlessy. Big, good, case on him in viewtopic.php?p=3987191#p3987191
-SOD attacking him.
-He attacking Pine and SOD.

And now he's dead after being a player largely ignored. SOD and Pine being scum are very very likely right now. What a surprise.

DRey is striking me more and more as town.

@LMP after me and MOI "cleared" you because of your fail case on pidgey you misteriously disappeared from the face of the earth really rubbed me the wrong way. Considering pidgey was not killed by scum but by the dumb vig you credit has all but vanished because you:
a)created a giant case on a confirmed town player.
b)reread the game on night, btw I never do that as town after I spent days rereading and writting a giant case and was NKed once. So I'm wary of doing that because of that, when I'm scum I reread a lot though because I know there's almost nil chances of dying on night.
c)couldn't know pidgey would be killed if scum.
d)Was wrong about everything so far.
e)unnaturaly buddied with the strongest players.

Your time is expiring and I expect big things from you from now on.

I've been present in the game except when I've clearly announced V/LAs. I have nothing to apologize for.

It's a foregone conclusion that I'm eating rope today. This position isn't salvagable from my perspective, and it's much better if I'm lynched now rather than later. Heres a hint: I may or may not be some type of Jester and I may or may not be Batman's arch-nemesis.

I was actually thinking about fighting this wagon until the jester claim.

@EVERYONE: ZEEK'S CONTINUED SURVIVAL IS STRETCHING THE BOUNDS OF REASON. WE NEED TO HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT THIS BEFORE ANY "TURBO" LYNCHING.

Why does Marvel scum kill Yates and Nacho and leave a claimed doc alive? ESPECIALLY after said Doc says IN THREAD that he's not locked to MOI anymore because he knows the scum can't risk killing there?

Just check this post out. It's right before we lynch SoD. It is absolutely STUFFED with "okay, endgame approaching, want to preserve a perfect win for my team and not accidentally get my buddy lynched. Shit, I've given a bunch of surviving Townies the pass until now, need to start backtracking those reads." He questions confTown Zeek, backs off his previously-unblemished Townread on me, gives big Townpoints out of nowhere to his previous biggest scumread, handwaves his constant lurking, and eagerly embraces SoD putting the noose around his own neck.

BACKTRACK YOUR READS MOAR SCUM

[Pine]

No, that post happened FIVE DAYS AGO. Just as endgame was about to start, you tool.

Find a single, solitary other post from the body of the game where your scumread on DRey wavered. DO IT. I can quote over a dozen rabidly anti-DRey posts, and exactly ONE that indicates anything to the contrary, up until a couple of days ago, when you started backtracking most of your reads to use to your team's best advantage. THAT is the lie. Your "read" never wavered, you never had one to begin with.

Your Townread on me was rock solid, until endgame started, then backtrack. Your scumread on DRey was unshakeable, until endgame started, then backtrack. You pushed the confTown Doc ALL FUCKING GAME, right up to very recently. Want to explain that?

[Pine]

Bluster on? I'm the one accusing YOU, scumbag. I'm the one pursuing YOU. Quit acting like you're the triumphant hero about to vanquish the great evil. I'm not the one with magically-changing and poorly-explained reads who vanishes whenever there's no scrutiny on him. That'd be you, bucko.

By my count, you're the one that's flailing, and you're the one who's squirming. Still haven't found anything to refute me, have you? You would have been better off continuing to bus DRey, that might've earned you Towncred.

[Pine]

Town

Zeek
DRey
ThAdmiral
Haylen
Pine
Furcolow

Scum

Hey, what happened to this? Thought you had Furc as your top scumread? Unwilling to actually man up with your new fakereads? Bus him. Go ahead, do it.

Oh hey, a pattern.

Day Three: LMP parks his vote safely on DRey, but spends his time instead producing big cases on Townie Pidgey.
Day Four: Wagon ramps up on DRey, LMP abandons it at first opportunity to pile onto Splitfarvle.
Day Five: Lurks the entire day
Day Six: Shows up at the end and backtracks almost all his previous reads.
Day Seven: Apparently forgets his new top scumread, and goes after the person that's calling him out on his bullshit instead.

[Pine]

DRey, apparently you missed the part where I said that I rarely check my email. Further, I receive the "You have a new PM" emails in digest form, which is like "You have X new PMs." I don't open those at all in the twice-weekly checking of my email. Finally, I didn't miss the PM, I confirmed with Jason. I just failed to bookmark the thread, and am absent-minded enough that I forgot about it until I was skimming the Large Theme list and noticed an assload of pages on a game I was supposed to be in. As for remaining online and participating, the way I play this site is that the first button on my bookmarks toolbar is the Mafiascum bookmarks page. I stay constantly logged in, and check it obsessively. When there's a new post in a game I've bookmarked, I'm usually on it within a few hours. It's not that fucking complicated.

Your attack is bad and you should feel bad.[/zoidberg]

Also, lol at Furc and DRey still pushing Zeek. LMP's left the door open on it too. Just WAITING for a Townie to take the bait. Scum fuckers.

[Pine]

Oh please, your Zeek discussion is so anemic it's pathetic. No, I don't think you can justify killing him today, but if it comes to that, you could certainly keep roleblocking him, then lynch him in a 2:1 endgame based on his survival and failure to protect Townies. You even JUST left the door open with calling him "95%" instead of simply confTown as most of the actual Townies have been doing for weeks.

[Pine]

Dude, you QUALIFY practically every statement you make about him, giving yourself an out. You throw around percentages (which I always feel is scummy) like 90% or 95%, and you base your arguments on setup spec while using setup spec against me, in a game that ALREADY has funky setup.

You're just flailing now.

[Pine]

hilarious
every single person thinks i'm scum?
do you think i'd actually make up the claim TERRY MCGINNIS? laughable

Yes. Frustrated that your WIFOM isn't working as well as you'd hoped?

If I was scum, I would have just claimed Batman

Because that worked out SO well for Mastin.

[Pine]

Lol, could you be any more obvious?

"4

of you

" rather than 4 of

us

.

[Pine]

Gotcha. So all the flipped Town that called Zeek confTown or obvTown are scum, then? Good to know. Hey! We're a lot closer to winning this clusterfuck than I thought!

Dumbass. Speaking in absolutes about absolutes, you're just as bad as what you're accusing me of.

[Pine]

Also, just so I'm clear, if someone is dead and they flipped town it means that anyone they called "confTown" must be so? That's some twisted logic.

That's like, not even a little bit of what I was saying. You had to really work to stretch it that far, didn't you?

[Pine]

The DRey-LMP team is so lolobv at this point. Furc is at least *trying* not to buddy his mates.

ThAd, you should unvote. The only reason they haven't lolhammered is probably because they can't coordinate a time to do it quick

[Pine]

Put your money where your mouth is, Furc. Vote LMP with me, and we can finally get our Marvel flip.

[Pine]

*YAWN*

That might've been convincing if you weren't the most obvious scum that ever scummed.

[Pine]

Hey ThAd, that slow creep to a scum win? It's starting right now. Watch DRey jump on, then Furc hammer.

[Pine]

Seriously, ThAd?

He's just backed into a corner and practically begging for an audience with which to talk things over. The more he can rehash everything we already know, the more he can reshape things the way he wants. It's what he's been doing like, all game.

[Pine]

What in the actual fuck, Furc. Are you really pretending that you're just now "discovering" that I'm a Miller? If you're going to go for a quicklynch on me, just balls up and do it.

[Pine]

...What?

[Pine]

David X was in David X's slot. No one replaced him before he was lynched.

How the fuck would we know if scum have daytalk?

Yes, my role PM indicates that I am a Miller.

There is no Innocent Child in this game.

Are you really this dense?

[Pine]

Why are you so intent on getting Haylen replaced? She's obviously just intermittent, not actually absent.

Let me guess - you want someone that'll come in confused and without previous bias against you or your buddies, that you can manipulate from a fresh slate.

How close am I to the mark? Too close for your tastes?

[Pine]

Suck a dick, ThAd. He does have a point that it's unlikely I wouldn't have been hammered at this point unless both votes on me are from scum. From my perspective, that leaves me wondering which of Furc, DRey, and LMP are playing badly enough as Town for me to have overlooked you. It isn't LMP, because there can't be two Townies between him and I, we'd have seen a hammer by now. I seriously doubt it's DRey, he's been textbook scum since his earliest posts. Probably Furc, he's bad enough to be that scummy on accident.

[Pine]

Lol at LMP throwing an accusation at confTown.

How scum can you be?

[Pine]

Right, so your primary argument is that I'm scum because I've had two votes on me and not been lynched. You know the exact same is true of you, right?

LMP is so obvscum it's ridiculous.

[Pine]

Your other arguments were nonsense, though, and primarily based on my claim, which would be tantamount to suicide as scum. The fact that I've survived this long is practically a miracle, and based on the fact that I've been too Town to get lynched

So again, your argument amounts to 1) Miller and 2) Hasn't been lynched yet.

That's scumlogic

[Pine]

That's like, precisely the argument I made a week ago. You can't just hijack it and call it your own. It makes sense that you'd try this last gambit. A Townflip from me will prove you scum, but it'll be too late, we're in LyLo.

Honestly, the more you flail about desperately, the more obvious you make yourself.

[Pine]

What in the fuck are you talking about. Innocent Child is a completely different role, and has nothing to do with this game.

[Pine]

No, I quite literally have no idea what you're talking about.

In what way is Innocent Child even remotely like Miller?

[Pine]

No, I quite literally have no idea what you're talking about.

In what way is Innocent Child even remotely like Miller?

when you are a miller on other sites, you don't know it
knowing it and claiming it (i've been a miller on MS before) makes you pretty clear in my eyes
LMP is scum, or you lied in your claim, and we should have already lynched you over it
I'm voting LMP for that reason when I vote in all likelihood

Millers on this site are usually informed. Still have no idea what the hell you were going on about Innocent Child for.

[Pine]

Your "case" on me is that you can "get people to vote me" and ad hominem

go fuck yourself, faggot

Did you seriously just post these two things back-to-back?

I mean, seriously?

Unvote
Vote: Furcolow

[Pine]

OMGUS is the first instinct of the guilty. Immediately unvoted, because he realized that DRey failing to quickhammer would confirm DRey as Town.

Looks like the team is Furc-LMP-ThAd. DRey, you and I are going to have serious words after this, because your Towngame is probably the scummiest I've ever seen.

[Pine]

Obviously, you didn't read 1665.

Look, LMP is definitely scum. His conduct today outright proves that. That's one.

I'd have been hammered now if my wagon contained ANY Town votes, so ThAd must be scum with him. That's two.

Furcolow's implosion just now settles the debate as to whether you or he was the third scum. That's three, which makes you (stupid) Town.

[Pine]

And if there was any doubt to you being Town, Furc's hurried unvote in 1662 is practically ironclad proof. He unvoted because he was concerned that your failure to immediately quickhammer would prove you beyond doubt as Town, though his unvote pretty much does anyway.

[Pine]

That last day was a bit frenetic and touch-and-go, but we brought exactly the right people with us to LyLo.

Figured going in that DRey was going to be our wincon, but I was thinking he was the most likely mislynch, rather than the one that'd hand it to us.

Plan A was to lynch a Townie. Conventional, but it worked out in the end.
Plan B was to set one of us up as confirmed Town and have them be PoE'd to victory, with Zeek's continued survival as mislynch fodder/explanation for why scum hadn't killed the obvTown.
Plan C evolved during the day, when people started making connections between Furcolow and I, and that involved active framing of Furc as my buddy, letting me be lynched and bringing him with me.

As to the early kills, we were actively hunting the other scumteam and the Serial Killer. We knew right away from our own numbers that there was a second team, and suspected the possibility of a SK/Vig, though the presence of both surprised me. We did a damn good job hunting down and eliminating the Red Pirates, and our early kills were aimed toward that end. Then we set to hunting the Serial Killer, which we did pretty well too.

Then we started hunting the Vig, though that took a long time and the eventual reveal of it was a surprise. Use of our Tracker and the various claims was essential to this. We knew everyone else was Town, so MoI, Zeek, Snake, and any other claims were gospel truth to us, and we were able to eliminate ourselves of course. Tracker provided us with most of the rest for a very effective PoE. I was absolutely convinced that it was Kondi, because of several comments he'd made, such as him being absolutely convinced that the throat-slitter was not the Vig.

With the other scumteam, the SK, and the Vig eliminated, we settled into a conventional game, which was the goal all along. ThAd, Haylen and I are all very strong scum players, so we knew if we could get rid of the wild cards, we'd kick some ass.

[Pine]

Oh, and DRey or whomever it was hit the nail on the head - I intentionally waited to be the very last to post on Day One so I could guarantee that my Miller fakeclaim wouldn't be countered.

I actually do forget to bookmark new threads from time to time, so that would be a bogus scumtell against me in the future.

[Pine]

Change Kondi to Yates in the above. I think I was misremembering another game.

[Pine]

Lol, Mastin, you really shouldn't go on about you deserving Best Performance in a Losing Cause. You were obvscum enough to be completely eliminated by Day Three and aside from me (which you're paranoid and biased about) you were completely and totally off-base in guessing our members. You only really put it together after I PMed you.

[Pine]

Actually, the way you flooded the thread with towntells and walls is a classic Mastinscumtell. Besides, you'd have been my chief target regardless, and I was planning on NKing you if you escaped the noose. Check out our QT around when you replaced. Holds were not barred.

[Pine]

What I would have done was stay calm, which is not what you did.

[Pine]

Mastin, some cooks use a pinch of spice for flavor, or a dash if they want to emphasize it. When you get backed into a corner and feel like you have to prove something, which tends to only happen when you're scum, you upend the spice jar entirely. It's a personal scumtell of yours. Fortunately, I think it involuntary, so I don't mind telling you.

[Pine]

Don't pat yourself so hard on the back either, MoI. If you'd done any better, we'd have killed you way, way before we did. The fact that a Townie of your caliber survived so deep is an indicator of how off your own game you were.

[Pine]

That's why we excised the Town of people who couldn't be manipulated.

Why do Town always blame the weak links when they lose badly, instead of respecting the scum for identifying, subtly protecting, and manipulating those they

want

to bring to endgame? I'm well aware that I was incredibly obvscum this last day. It was painful. I made some serious mistakes, and my claim was wearing very thin. However, I brought three people with me who were even worse, and waited for one of them to fall into our trap.

Quit bitching.

[Pine]

In other words, it wasn't my

defense

that won the day, it was my

offense

.

[Pine]

That was my assessment of ThAd as well. I mean, it was colored by my knowledge that he was in fact scum*, but his overtly cautious behavior seemed like a little red flag all game. no one else seemed to notice, so I paid it no mind and didn't bring it up in our QT. Aside from that, he was perhaps MVP, as if I'd made a mistake and possibly brought Haylen with me, I think he'd have pulled it off all the way to the end.

*This is the same sort of thing that makes the Dead QT always decry how obvious the scum are, when in fact they're doing a good job.

[Pine]

Really, the key to this game was in the first few game days. We started with a really nice roster of Townies as well as THREE opposing sources of night kills, most of those controlled by people who knew what they were doing. The challenge level would have ratcheted up in a big way had we not swiftly gotten rid of them. That accomplishment, rather than our late-game, is what was actually difficult.

I love when the Dead QT thinks I'm obvscum. It shows that who I mislynched and nightkilled were the right targets.

[Pine]

I was only 100% to you, idiot.

[Pine]

In part because I was

trying

to look, and implicate a few others as possible buddies in the process. Admittedly, I went a bit overboard, but hey, it was a risky plan.

[Pine]

You weren't super Townie. I thought you might have been scum, either SK or Red Pirate, at various points.

[Pine]

You were a really, really bad Vig shot given other choices, I'll give you that

[Pine]

I feel kind of bad for you, Nero Cain. You were playing a pretty decent game. We got a bit lucky in that we jailkept you early and made the connection that missing kill might equal Serial Killer. You got a little screwed by not being Bulletproof - with two scumteams and a Vig, you really should have been at least 1-shot bulletproof on top of investigation-immune.

[Pine]

I'm not sure I can go into more detail than that, though. Needless to say, I just got a PM from someone who told me they were Marvel scum.

Is this allowed? Seems like a giant no-no to me.

Yes, I allowed this due to Mastin being dead and therefore the PM had no influence in the game.

It's your game, but it seems like a massive slippery slope to allow living players to PM dead players. For one, now the living player knows there are no "return from the dead" mechanics, or else there would be a problem.

Just sayin, IMO this behavior should not be allowed as a site rule. I'll take it to MD.

He was the last member of his scumteam. Who would be resurrecting him, exactly?

It was a breach of etiquette, and technically against site rules, but there was no harm in it.

It won't happen again, but you're making mountains out of molehills.