Good vs Evil, Law vs Chaos Reboot - Game Over, Good wins

Junpei · Mon May 21, 2012 4:36 pm

Zdenek, why'd you leave out some of the relevant votes on the Shadoweh wagon?

Junpei · Wed May 23, 2012 1:42 am

In post 3919, Tammy wrote:As far as what the last scum is is something I've been wondering about. I'm no expert on balance but it does seem to me to be a bit overpowered for the scum team to have more than one PR per team, especially with the town power roles that we know of.

That really depends on the strength of the PR doesn't it? They could have some weak PR.

Junpei · Wed May 23, 2012 2:46 pm

In post 3903, Zdenek wrote:
In post 3902, Junpei wrote:Zdenek, why'd you leave out some of the relevant votes on the Shadoweh wagon?

Why don't you tell me which ones you are talking about, and I'll tell you.

Don't you think it makes sense to look at every reaction to the claim?

Junpei · Thu May 24, 2012 12:15 pm

vote Tiphainedeath

Good work Nacho, I feel bad for not catching that. Strongly advocating NOT killing chaotic scum specifically BECAUSE Lawful town would win early is not something which is coming from Lawful town.

Junpei · Thu May 24, 2012 12:23 pm

In post 3952, Pine wrote:Are you people serious? TD has been THE loudest voice for my lynch for days.

Try again, Nacho.

Doesn't matter; the quotes, even if he is now calling for your death, are condemning.

Junpei · Thu May 24, 2012 1:31 pm

In post 3954, Pine wrote:Regardless, I'd rather lynch Nacho first, and take him seriously if he flips Town.

Scum can make good arguments, especially in multiscum. Even if Nacho is scum, it doesn't affect the veracity of his post and credence we should give his suspicion of Tiphaine.

Junpei · Thu May 24, 2012 2:02 pm

In post 3956, Pine wrote:Point, but I feel much stronger about Nacho.

You think that Lawful town would say that Choatic scum should not be lynched because it would cause lawful town to win?

Junpei · Thu May 24, 2012 2:18 pm

In post 3959, Zdenek wrote:Junpei, your read on CK, now.

I don't have a consciously compelling read on him. I can't really recall him or his predecessors as I look at the opening post.

Junpei · Thu May 24, 2012 2:29 pm

In post 3962, Zdenek wrote:
In post 3854, chesskid3 wrote:Despite being Chaotic, I feel that we need to make lawful win first. Both towns winning is a much better win than one town winning.

The tone of his post seems more like the low quality perception which Chesskid has than it does the suspicious double-motive agenda that Tiphaine's do. Chesskids' move is more blatant and I could certainly see it coming from scum, but it isn't condemning in the way that Tiphaine's is. A scum tell though.

Tell me Zdenek, do you prescribe to lynch all liars?

Junpei · Thu May 24, 2012 3:29 pm

Oh yeah, that reminds me

v/la till 5/28

Not sure how much access I'll have but there's that just in case.

As for 3967.. that's not a good post, really yells scum who's worried. The third line in particular troubles me. He wants both towns to win; he is acting like one town winning would making it harder for the other town to win. Either way, lets lynch him. I find it odd that he isn't able to say who he wants us to lynch right now, and that it isn't Pine.

Junpei · Thu May 24, 2012 3:46 pm

In post 3972, TiphaineDeath wrote:even stating my position turned the only person who was on my side against me, but you can bet your ass I'm taking someone down with me.

1) strawman

2) Okay, so you're just going to magically start a counterwagon

Anyway, I'm just going to go head off and leave it to everyone else to lynch Tiphaine, good job team we caught the scum.

Junpei · Mon May 28, 2012 4:54 pm

Any PRs that have anything to say (cough PINE cough) should do so now.

Junpei · Mon May 28, 2012 5:31 pm

Nope, we're lynching between Lawful claims today. There are four left and within that should be our final chaotic opposed scum. Haven't decided on which yet, will make up my mind tomorrow.

Junpei · Tue May 29, 2012 12:48 am

vote chesskid

I don't see why we would lynch anyone else. Chaotic has the majority; lets just win the game now.

Junpei · Tue May 29, 2012 1:16 am

In post 4109, Haze wrote:
In post 4108, Junpei wrote:
vote chesskid

I don't see why we would lynch anyone else. Chaotic has the majority; lets just win the game now.

And screw the other town?

You understand that the last Chaotic scum has claimed lawful right? There should be 3 lawful town and 1 chaotic scum. So lynch Chesskid, we all leave, and their scum makes a night kill and then they get day 7 LYLO to themselves. Let them handle the way they want their town game to end.

Junpei · Tue May 29, 2012 1:38 am

I'm the guy who always helps. I've actually been quite ready this game to lynch Chaotic scum to the end. However, I don't know why you're unsatisfied with a 3way LYLO consisting of only Lawful Town and 1 Chaotic Scum.

This is your business, not mine. We all have things we have to do, you have yours and I have mine. I just thought you'd want the honor of taking on your own enemy. I would personally love the chance to do that, it's the honorable thing to do, I feel.

Junpei · Tue May 29, 2012 1:47 am

In post 4113, Tammy wrote:Junpei do you even read what you write?

Like do you?

So what you're saying is that you trust my ability so much that you want my help interfering with your efforts to catch Chaotic Mafia? I know that honor is something I'd keep to real life where it matters, but it's a principle that I thought you might care about.

If you trust me that much, then I'll help you find your scum, but lynch Chesskid anyway and let you guys use our information to decide the final scum. That way its only the hand of people who truly care about the lynch pulling the chain and Chesskid can't troll it.

Junpei · Tue May 29, 2012 1:50 am

Well my first reaction is that Feysel is scum because that's a lot of Lawful Good power.

4 Lawful Good PRs

2 Chaotic Good PRs

I'll put in more effort later. What's the case on Nacho?

Junpei · Tue May 29, 2012 10:15 am

Mos CooLDoG + unknown

Yeah, I don't want that team winning. I prefer the MoI/Mhork/Peregrine/unknown team.

Tammy is confirmed town right?

Junpei · Tue May 29, 2012 1:45 pm

What's the difference between Chaotic town trolling and helping Lawful town and Chesskid trolling and killing the last mafia?

Junpei · Tue May 29, 2012 2:09 pm

Calm down, I'm going to help, I just wanted to know your answer to the question.

Junpei · Wed May 30, 2012 1:11 pm

Zdenek, it's only not playing to your wincon if you don't have believable reason to believe that it won't inhibit your factions' chances of winning.

I'm leaning toward Mastin as scum, those walls don't say much when I read them. Tammy, what are your main criticisms of Nacho?

Junpei · Wed May 30, 2012 1:26 pm

Hm, opportunistic posting. I'll have to double check that later.

Don't get too bogged down in connections. If it's Nacho, Nacho is smart. CooLDoG is the most likely to have made scum-connection-posts on accident. I can see MoS doing it as well; but Nacho is smart in my opinion.

That said, he still could make mistakes.

Junpei · Wed May 30, 2012 2:53 pm

I thought Tammy was confirmed town..?

Moneybags, you're Chaotic Good right? Just leave the slot empty, it's over.

Junpei · Wed May 30, 2012 2:57 pm

By the way, good luck. We have to do what we have to do. Now; I hope you enjoy doing yours. Hope all is well in time.

Junpei · Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:26 am

Mastin where do you keep finding more time?

Junpei · Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:51 am

Hm... I don't buy it. I think you're intentionally shaving time off to get rid of the high responsibility output you have in this 3way lylo and are trying to pump out content when you can even though it's a lot of undesirable work for you.

My vote is on Mastin.

Junpei · Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:00 pm

Feysal made a great point with Mastins' claim. I would vote Mastin, I still don't see a convincing case on Nacho and when I looked at his ISO I didn't see enough to turn away from Mastins' overwhelming suspicious body of work.

Junpei · Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:44 pm

vote Mastin

This better be right.

Junpei · Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:29 pm

4/6 lynches were on scum, not too bad I guess.

Chesskid, a day six loss =/= overpowered PRs.

Junpei · Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:35 pm

I don't know, how about you tell me? You screwed up by leaving Pine alive when you KNEW that you would have to lie about your alignment.

Kondi, every lynch had something to do with scumhunting. Especially the night actions which involved scumhunting as well. The town PRs were not OP..

Junpei · Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:55 pm

BB
1) Didn't claim solely because of mechanics
2) Could have claimed much better

Chesskid
1) Should have killed Pine
2) Could have overall played better

Town outplayed scum in this game and the result showed it in my opinion. Take away Pines' guilty and you get a completely different outlook on how this game is balanced by you. Pine should have been shot, it's that simple.

Junpei · Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:35 pm

I didn't scumhunt any differently. The two town mechanic though does create interesting role resolution as well as endgame solutions which did happen in this game.

I wonder how it would be if the first faction to win is the sole winner.. The setup obviously would have to be much changed. It'd also be a quicker game.

Junpei · Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:10 am

In post 4325, mastin2 wrote:I knew I was CE, but I did NOT know who my partners were, as it was not in my PM and
I didn't look at the QT long enough to see their names
: just long enough to see that I had no daytalk.

Wow... that's pathetic Mastin. You'd do good not to ever do this again.

Junpei · Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:14 am

I think it is your duty as a player to know your mafia team. I know it is an ADVANTAGE, an unfair advantage which should be frowned upon.

Also Mastin you should be glad that the full cop which BOTH scumteams wanted dead was in your opposing town. If the other team had shot Pine, they would have furthered your win con too, you would have doubly furthered yours.

Junpei · Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:12 am

In post 4349, Oversoul wrote:Junpei, this is constructive criticism and I mean this in the nicest way possible, but you have to realize sometimes that you are wrong. Your arrogance really does get the better of you. :\

I appreciate the criticism, I do. Most criticism I get is in the form of compliments or personal attacks.

But I actually don't tend to let one view dominate my mind. I always keep an open mind, but I do so behind the scenes. I always act confident in everything I do because I haven't learned how to read people in relation to myself when I don't.

Even so, I'll take more care to be cognizant of my perceptions and my fallibility in the future.

Junpei · Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:33 pm

Yeah.. I agree Tammy; it's easy not to commit relational scum tells. It's also easy not to commit scum tells I mean gosh we know them all so heck don't read your role PM it doesn't make a difference, what town needs scum to know that they are scum lol.

Informed minority is overrated, this is mafia not chess lol.

Junpei · Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:44 pm

1) Tammy link me to any game and I'll point out scum tells from every member of the scum team. Scum drop scumtells. Link me to your scum games and I'll do the same.

2) callforjudgement I think that Faraday is saying that it is very amateurish to do what you did and that such a strategy is reserved only for people who have no confidence in their ability.

Junpei · Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:45 pm

To be clear: No one is questioning the usefulness of not reading your role PM/not remembering your mafia partners, but people are questioning the ethics of it.

Junpei · Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:37 pm

If they are nervous in RVS regardless of alignment then

1) They won't get lynched for it

2) Not knowing their alignment won't make a difference because CLEARLY alignment is not a factor

Scum by definition drop scumtells. There's something to be said about someone who thinks that it won't hurt the game if we enact a mechanic which makes it impossible for scum to drop real scum tells. We make wins off of distinguishing real from fake scum tells, you know.