Experimental Role Mafia (GAME OVER!)

[MagnaofIllusion]

VOTE: Parama

Fake-Daykill in an attempt to dissuade the wagon? No sir, not fooling me.

Your partner FakeGod can try to kill the Cop tonight for your in memory.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Hey Ray - why didn't you just vote Bunny as opposed to throwing down a chuckle vote on IAI in the first place? It's not like he's done anything since you said he needed to die in Post 32 to upgrade your read to lynchable.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Well if Parama is too lazy to actually post I guess I’m too lazy to move my vote …

Rayfrost I am disappoint …. I thought you were disguising a perfectly good policy lynch on pretty much the only policy-lynch worthy player in the game with the Voices. A lame reaction test? Really.

Dram – voting me is a scum-tell. You should know that by now … I’m obv-Town. Just admit you are scum now and I’ll go easy on you and let you live a day or so to bus your partners.

@Pops – should I sheep you this game?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Is he scum in the same way DGB can read SlySly-scum AV? Because that thought has occured to me ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Hey Deathnote - why don't you drop a vote on your top scum suspect? Yeah, I know it is WAY yearly. Your justification doesn't have to be iron-clad. Just humor me and make a footprint.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Pappums

– why do you assume Deathnote’s vote for pidgey is ‘random’ when I explicitly asked him to vote for a scum candidate?

Yeah, Parama can still have a vote for Post 170. Lots of buddying and nothing that actually resembles scum-hunting.

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Besides, this wagon is based off of nothing. What do you want him to do? Address everything fake toward him?

This is the same wagon you were stating you wanted to have staying power in Post 28?

DeathNote just needs to be shot or something. He won't help, he'll annoy, piss me off, and die from a lynch anyway as town.

He’s helping more than half the players at this point including Parama.
Him annoying you is a plus for me since you are totes annoying yourself.
And in light of Post 156 your reasons from wanting him shot are terrible or scummy. Which is it Hiraki?

So, yes. I do believe that will be the case until you start to actually play. If you consider voting someone because they're asking for opinions good play, I will easily continue my shenanigans.

So this … this is not a Town oriented thought process. Deathnote is playing the game much more than any number of players who you are blithely ignoring – Dram / Bunnylover / Sword / Malth to name a few.

Your “He’s Totes Town” and “He needs to be shot” conflicting stances scream of scum who wants credit for a good read on Deathnote but want any possible Town Vigs not shooting your partners.

Totes scummy.

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@Vi - I don't know whether it's single ball or not, but if someone commits a towntell that's only valid in single ball, then they still get that much credit multiplied by P, where P is the probability the game is actually single ball.

D2 P will be replaced by 1 or 0, so that's why I made a note of the dependency. (ok, a .2 or .8 because nightkills are sometimes hard to interpret but you get the point)

Last sheepage deteremining question Pops – why if you are so on with your scum-hunting are you sure you will be alive Day 2 to make that judgment?

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[MagnaofIllusion]

And why are you still voting parama, briz?
Your vote there was because of BB "result". Asking people to take off votes from RVS and you not doing is contradictory.

Is Parama playing as Town pidgey?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Lol at Parama complimenting Vi as awesome but Vi being the first to question his reads. I dont see much of a response to that question either. Stop stalling and explain please!

Parama only understands the simplest of stimuli.

If you want results you will need to vote him to get them.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I would but Parama's reads are not as important to me as the contribution of explaining them. Once my desire for his reads outweigh my desire to lynch havingfitz or whoever else is ringing my scumdar, then I will vote.

Um, you are voting pidgey and haven't mentioned having to my knowledge ....

[MagnaofIllusion]

Yes you are. Why is that again?

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Vi – So why isn’t pappums voting for you a scum-tell?

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Btw, according to what I remember of Vi's meta on me, my scum meta is to buddy Vi. Funny thing is this is true. So I'm trying to BREAK THE META TELL by buddying Vi when I'm town.

So what I am seeing here is –

You are specifically going out of your way, as Town, to buddy a player of unknown alignment to break your scum meta of buddying Vi.

Again – you are acting in a manner as Town to make it more difficult to read your future games as scum?

My brain … it hurts

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it wasn't for conclusions <___<

Yeah it was to fluff. Eat some rope why don’t you.

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Dram makes me laugh. In that 'yup, completely useless like Shotty' sort of way.

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like MOI's 119

I’d like you to express exactly what you like about Post 119

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WRONG EHAHAHEAHAHA

Then who in Ray’s Post 219 isn’t Town and why.

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Yes, and consequently got Pinescum down later.

Remind me … if Pine is scum are you voting him? Why aren’t you doing more to push Pine-scum?

Really?

Absolutely. He’s posting more content and thoughts than half this thread. Your attempts to undermine that by calling him terrible while simultaneously calling him Town stink to high heaven.

Here’s a list of players who have less than 5 posts and for all practical purposes no content to their ISOs –

BBmolla, having, FakeGod, pappums, Bunnylover, IAI, Malth.

How can you justify questioning Deathnote’s contributions while not saying WORD ONE about these players?

What does this post show?

It's IIoA.

Parama’s entire ISO is fluff and IIoA. Your point?

Sure, he has some good posts. Maybe Parama doesn't now, but will soon.

Oh, so you aren’t looking at Parama on the expectation of something to come but are dismissing Deathnote despite him actually having content (which you freely admit) now?

Dumb or scum again Hiraki?

If I scumslip on post 5, is it different than scumslipping on post 1000?

Of course not. Not please point me out the scum-slips you have seen.

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The better question is did BBmolla get anything out of his "fake" daycop?

Read Post 42. Then read it again. Take five minutes away from the computer and read it again.

Now tell me if BB is claiming to get any results or not.

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Cause he didnt really give any reasoning behind the vote.

Wrong answer. You’ve been here long enough to know that voting with giving explicit reasons does not mean it is a RVS vote.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOD – I’ll be LA from 4:30 PM EDT today until Monday morning for my usual weekend family duties.

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Why don't more people vote Malth?

Because they are busy voting Parama. Why are you voting him?

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You're seriously fishing for my town reads after that?

No, I’m fishing for you to do some scum-hunting instead of fluffing around.

I honestly don’t give two shits about your Town reads and whether you want to be protective of them or not as long as you actually are looking for scum as opposed to posting things about giving players nicknames.

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Voting for me is typically a scumtell. But, it just never crossed my mind to vote pap-rat this time. IDK let me look at it again.

This response does not give me the good vibes …

[MagnaofIllusion]

Don't you think having townreads is a significant part of the process of scumhunting?

If you hadn't figured it out from our run-ins in the past - No, I personally think Town-hunting is very over-rated. It leads to people getting in blind-spots and scum winning because of it. Atomic Mafia is the game I can point to as to why - both Reck and I were not interested in hunting in our own compounds and saw the obv-scum players in each other's compound pretty clearly. That solidified to me that 'taking my eye off the ball' in regards to Town-reads was not good.

Obviously this is effectively an MD discussion beyond this point.

[MagnaofIllusion]

But I really value townhunting and I happen to be good at it.

And by disguising your reads you honestly don't give me any reason to believe you as I have no way by which to judge said 'Town-hunting' and the reasoning behind it.

I'm not one to 'take it on faith' that you've got an amazing set of Town reads hiding in your notes or wherever you keep them.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Bah ... I wanted more Pops-time ....

[MagnaofIllusion]

Why do you assume Parama will ever make a proper appearance in the game, regardless of alignment?

Why do you not advocate removing him Day 1 then?

[MagnaofIllusion]

FakeGod springing to life as far as activity only after amassing a wagon makes me lean towards voting him. Need to review a past game before doing so.

I’m also tired of all the “Teehee look at me playing craptastic to avoid a Nightkill” going on from certain players. It might earn you a bullet. You’ve been warned.

@Fake

– you didn’t answer my question in Post 276. Skip it again and get my vote on policy grounds.

Post 319 is sufficient grounds for a vote on Bunnylover at this stage in my mind.

@IAI

– So you agree with me that Dram is scum then?

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I am so glad my ability to vig only town is going to be so useful today
AV needs to die for being so goddamn anti-town

This has all the ingredients for my “Parama is scum” stew.

Pointless soft-claim made to discourage wagon? Check.
Complete lack of scum-hunting? Check.
Pointless cheekiness? Check.

Vote stays. Die in a fire.

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No offense, but that's your big problem MoI.

You're unable to detect a plausibility of sarcasm.

I take it you don’t understand why I consider Vi’s response troublesome. Here’s a hint – it has nothing to do with sarcasm.

Why don't you guys agree on Pinescum?

Because your reasoning for him being scum is terrible.

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If we were to policy lynch on those grounds, we'd be policy lynching half of the game, sadly. At the very least, Parama can be trusted to use his PR, if he has one, which is somewhat likely given the game, I think.

I want this lynch to be informative as possible, and parking a vote on Parama that originated from RVS is the least informative thing that AV could possibly do, ever. And I think his reasons are terrible.

Why would you say Parama could be ‘trusted’ to us his PR? That’s a pretty bad assumption IMO.

My issue with this – you are busting AV’s chops like no-one’s business regarding his vote on Parama which has been there since RVS. Yet not a peep at me when I’ve kept my vote on Parama since page one. There’s some pretty big inconsistency there.

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People who fall hook line and sinker to stupid Town gambits are more likely to be really, really terrible scum.

So BBmolla is Town since that’s the only way it is a Town gambit, right?

[MagnaofIllusion]

How

Pine already explained it to you. That you didn’t comprehend it then doesn’t mean he was not correct.

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Any information you have to the contrary would be nice.

I’m not telling you that I think you are wrong. I’m asking you to confirm your stance. It’s not like the over-the-top vagueness is going to fool this playerlist about whether you should be Nightkilled or not regardless of your alignment.

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MoI: I am thinking of the Scummies /in-vitational, because Parama's play here is extremely similar - up to and including the pointless softclaim to discourage the wagon. Parama was town.

Frankly I’ve seen Parama play exactly in this manner as scum also. So I’ll just continue to let him have my vote until I see some reason why he should not.

[MagnaofIllusion]

If I'm town, why not sheep me? :3

Maybe because you claim to be a better Town-hunter than scum-hunter? I mean, if you bothered to share your Town reads you could make a case for not voting your Town reads. But asking to be sheeped when you complain about how poor your scum reads are doesn't make much sense ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Well fuck you too.

Hi, my name is Dramonic and I’m just going to active lurk and fluff as long as no-one pays any attention to me.

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WEEEEEEOOOOOOOHHH WEEEEEEEEOOOOOOOOOHHH

DEM SIRENS

Yeah, it’s almost as if you are trying to sell replacing out of a game as a scum-tell …

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Please vote your lynch, instead of voting to enforce your policy.

You do understand said policy is “Scum are more willing to duck questions that put them on the hot-spot”, right?

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I said something a bunch of pages ago about my town reads vs. scum reads in this game. Since then, things have happened, I have re-read, and I have presented a case. Why are you going out of your way to dismiss it on baseless grounds? Do you have a town read on FakeGod?

1. Where did I say I was ‘dismissing’ your case?
2. No, I don’t. His play, especially the coming alive after he got a bit of suspicion, is suspect.
3. Why are you so touchy about being questioned / commented on? Your single case on FakeGod hardly, IMO, contradicts your stance you presented earlier that you had a bunch of Town reads that were much easier to come by.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Oh great, serial thread spamming ... joy ....

[MagnaofIllusion]

3. It's not that I'm being questioned - it's that you're undermining my credibility for no plausible reason. You have just admitted that you think FakeGod is scummy, but yet, you try to invalidate my case by saying no one should sheep me because "I'm better at town reads."

Even if I am better at townreads, it's a logical fallacy to say that this means my scumreads are any less valid.

Ah the Benmage ‘undermining’ stance …

Here’s a hint Amrun – stating it makes more sense to sheep you on your Town reads than your scum reads comes from you yourself saying the following –

I wish I had better scumreads. But I'll settle for townsies for now.

If anyone is undermining you it is you. But your complete vitriolic reaction to this whole discussion is noted.

How wonderful and non-spammy this post is!

Actually it is. I was pointing out how your serial one line post with Chess were doing nothing but clogging the thread.

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>lurks all day
>posts once
>gets put under pressure
>replaces out without posting again

So let’s see –

1. Lurking is a scum-tell? Ok, my vote is in the right place.
2. Posting once isn’t a scum-tell. It’s a dipshit tell.
3. Malth has never been the leading wagon at any point in the game. FakeGod and yourself have always had more votes. So your premise that Malth would feel pressured given that several people have said “Malth is an easy wagon” is ludicrous.
4. Please link me to multiple games showing this is a scum-tell and you just not pulling crap out of your ass.

Furthermore that Amrun noted he replaced out of something else makes this push by you doubly scumtastic.

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MoI, is the reason you dont like the FakeGod wagon because of the Amrun townhunting thing?

Where did I ever say I don’t like the FakeGod wagon?

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I think bunny's 349 is ok.

So answer me these two questions

1. What exactly do you like about this post? Be specific.
2. Why is Bunny’s vote still laboring in RVS when she ostensibly has three scum suspects in Pappums / Rayfrost / Having?

[MagnaofIllusion]

So basically you are dodging all the content that shows your 'tell' on Malth was manufactured scum-bullshit? Nice.

Parama can DIAF. At this stage he's pretty much obv-scum.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Of course you are ... that's Page 1 of the Mafia manual.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Hiraki is probably scum this game also. I’m getting flashbacks to Video Game Mafia with these recent posts. A FakeGod scum flip puts him right at the top of the ‘Kill it with Fire’ list. Probably should re-read Video Game Mafia to see if my memory is working …

VOTE: FakeGod

No content at all since acquiring a wagon. Town FakeGod works harder to avoid his lynch re: Harry Potter Mafia.

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At MOI, 341, did you really think Parama was softclaiming in that post you quoted? Also, what is your read on Amrun currently?

I think Parama intended it to look like a soft-claim.

Amrun is in my ‘Meh’ pile. Her play doesn’t scream Town but I don’t see anything that says ‘I’m scum’ like so many others. Here touchiness isn’t alignment indicative from what I remember of her. Put a gun to my head and I think she’s probably Town.

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With pleasure.

Unvote: FakeGod
Vote: FaerieLord (L-11)

Actually no because I'll get you after Brizingre1.

Unvote: FaerieLord
Vote: Brizingre1 (L-11)

This is Monday. You moved from a wagon of 7 on FakeGod to a wagon of 0 on Briz.

At the very least start piling on the wagons.

This is Tuesday where you are complaining about lack of consolidation of wagons.

You really do hate being scum don’t you Vi?

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@MoI and Av: I have 3 slightly scum reads, but I have no strong evidence to push a case or begin to lynch them.

So you have three slight scum suspects, but none of them are strong enough to warrant a vote. Yet you are happy keeping an RVS vote that has less backing it than any vote on your scum suspects would?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Doublepost removed for clarity.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Um I have no idea how that happened ....

MOD - Can you clean up one of those duplicates? Thanks so much!

[MagnaofIllusion]

This is more because no one wants to pursue my scumreads and my town reads are being voted.

so either i'm hardcore bussing(if they are actually scum)

or i'm not

Wow I've never seen someone quiet so elequoently say nothing at all.

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Also,

Welcome Tierce!

[MagnaofIllusion]

This Parama wagon has disintegrated.

Just like he wanted.

Damn you all to hell.

AV there comes a point where we have to come to grips with our limitations.

Too many people out there are happy to let him slide by active-lurking and doing nothing because he does that all the time. Site-meta favors slugs.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Hey Hiraki, you are scum aren’t you?

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Before I get to responses I have a question for Tierce –

What is your read on Dram?

And here are the famed MoWalls.

@MoI - I've seen you support policy lynches as town. (fake edit: In fact you do so a few times later on this read) Why is Hiraki asking for a vig shot on DeathNote worthy of a scum read?

Oh Tierce if you think these are walls …

There is a distinct difference between supporting a policy lynch on a player you don’t think is readable and asking for a player you profess to have a Town read on to be Vigged. Do you disagree?

I don't see whay FakeGod scum would not have more scumreads, Amrun. I think his read is bad, yes, but it's more telling of town than scum because there's no scum motivation to stand out that much from the herd.

This makes me sad if you are Town and think this. Are you Town Tierce?

Hey Vi this cryptic stuff is funsies but doesn't really get us anywhere and you're not making any visible effort at pushing wagons together.

So right after posting this why the cow-towing to Vi? The fact that IAI doesn’t even show up in your re-read until Vi starts mentioning him doesn’t seem to mesh well with this statement.

Also willing to wagon hiplop, Vi, chesskid, Bunnylover. Would prefer any of them to Parama, tbqh. How come none of these players have votes?

UNVOTE: Parama
(Still love and cookies, you.)

VOTE: hiplop

So what exactly happened in four minutes that changed Parama from your first vote to behind 4 other reads as your best places for votes?

And hypocrisy is not a scumtell,

Oh please do explain this in more detail.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MoI: A RVS vote is the same as a no vote isn't it?

No, clearly it is not. Anything that shows up in vote counts, regardless of the intent behind it, is not the same thing as not voting. I can understand if you didn’t have solid enough suspects to commit to a vote but can’t fathom keeping a RVS vote you don’t have any read on as scum over voting even the weakest of scum reads.

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Yeah, that was my reaction too.

Why was that your reaction?

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Probably not. Based on her recent posts and pretty basic meta (i can read her pretty well), shes much scummier than town, for her

Do me a favor and link me to the games you played that show this ability to read her well. Thanks!

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I'm asking about your stance here, because

you are the kind of player who would p-lynch a townread if they thought their play was poor enough.

It does not match your reaction to Hiraki.

First I’d like you to document where you found the bolded in reading my games. A link is sufficient but I think you are not going to be able to find a single game where I supported a policy lynch on a player I called Town before they flipped.

Why, if you know I have supported policy lynches in the past, are you asking me my stance? I think it is pretty clear I will support a policy lynch on an unreadable lurker or VI Day 1.

How exactly does my history not match my reaction to Hiraki?

What is your read on Hiraki?

That's cute, but cut the condescension. Yes, I am.

Well then you are doing it wrong. You don’t see any reason why Scum Fakegod who has amassed a wagon would not have reason to provide as few scum-reads as possible?

I’ve played with Fakegod once that I recall – Harry Potter Mafia. Go look at his play there. He had the third highest post count in the game, he was engaged with giving opinions and scum-hunting, and he was a Beloved Princess. Pretty much a terrible role to be active and make yourself a NK target with. So his play here makes little sense in context as either Town or a Town Powerrole.

Vi asked me about a player, pointed something that seemed scummy about him, and I went and did my research. It's called scumhunting~ Why doesn't it mesh well?

So you list Vi as one of your preferred lynches of the day. I have to assume that this means you have a scum-read of some sort on Vi since you don’t support ‘policy lynches’. Yet the second Vi appears in thread you start bantering back and forth and take her suggestion about who is scum so strongly into consideration that you end up voting said player when they were not on your original list of preferred lynches.

Do you see how I am having trouble with your behavior around Vi?

I was voting Parama because he was already being voted for and this game is slow. I wanted a wagon with a possibility of engaging and flipping before deadline.

And four minutes later you changed your mind completely? I’m seeing a pretty wide disconnect between your votes and intent you want to display in Post 506

4 days to deadline, 23 players and the best you have is a wagon on badtown? Hell no.

I’m leaning to this being a Faux Town “I’m passionate about things look at me post”

Should put their votes to good use: sowrd_of_omens, Dram, malthusis-slot, hiplop, PeregrineV... heck, the list continues. This is ridiculous.

So here you are calling out the people with single-ton votes and telling them to be ‘productive’.

And you vote Parama making his wagon 3 deep and somewhat viable. Which is aligned with your stance about being productive with voting.

Four minutes later you post this –

Also willing to wagon hiplop, Vi, chesskid, Bunnylover. Would prefer any of them to Parama, tbqh. How come none of these players have votes?

UNVOTE: Parama
(Still love and cookies, you.)

VOTE: hiplop

What do all your preferred suspect have in common? They have ZERO votes in your unofficial vote count at 506. So any vote for them is a vote for what you were ‘calling out’ all those players for doing. And you followed through by voting hiplop.

Also the following line looks very much like someone interested in making sure the little sniping that Amrun and I have been doing back and forth continues to fester –

Why do you trust MoI on this, Amrun?

[MagnaofIllusion]

The Tierce wagon is absolute bullshit. Whenever I've seen her join as a replacement, she has always tried to be very assertive upon joining and participated in cynical banter. See Korts' Brass and Shrapnel, including her entire exchange with Fate.

So is Tierce Town that is incorrect on FakeGod in your opinion?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Hey AV -

No comments about Tierce? And why is Amrun scum?

I crave information! FEED ME SEYMOUR!!!!

[MagnaofIllusion]

Why can't the briz wagon get any traction?

Maybe because you've done nothing to sell anyone on it and have pidgey and Hiraki as your wagon-mates?

[MagnaofIllusion]

As for Amrun, seriously? A 1v1 and suddenly he backs down on FG?

Fun fact - the only times I've ever been in non-role based 1 v 1 situations that I instigated I was Town and in those times the players who backed off were also Town.

So my experience says your logic stinks. Discuss!

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOD – I’ll be LA from today at 4:30pm EDT until Monday AM for my usual weekend family duties.

Since we have a deadline extension and FakeGod is back and posting I think I’m going to move back to obv-scum Parama (note he’s just coasting through all this recent kerfuffle).

UNVOTE: FakeGod
VOTE: Parama

I do think the play today does mean that FakeGod and Tierce are unlikely to be scum partners.

Dram’s jump on Fake further degrades my FakeGod = scum thoughts.

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@MoI: You picked one game out of many other town games I have. That isn't a valid meta argument.

See the way you phrase this makes me itch. You are subtly implying I researched your meta and found a game that doesn’t match when in fact I’m referencing (IIRC) the only common game we have and that I clearly remembered.

Care to provide me with other Town FakeGod games that show you less engaged?

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That's a terribly small sample size.
Discuss!

It’s more valid than anything you have provided on the subject (simply by way of you showing nothing). You have links to “Scum hit with a 1v1 who backed down”?

And Vi answers why Amrun backing off is hardly scum motivated at Post 579 quite handily.

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BL delurks, sheeps onto the biggest wagon with no attempt at independent thought or reasoning, and makes several empty excuses. "Oh oops." "RVS doesn't count." "I am useless."

Here’s my issue. Bunnylover is, unfortunately, a pretty derp player. I can point to every game in memory (Olympus Mafia, Atomic Mafia, Cyclical 2) where her play was pretty illogical and poor. And no indication of alignment as she was both Town and Scum and fairly indistinguishable. So Bunny is a fine Policy lynch if you want to sell it as such – I know I’m never going to be able to get a solid read on her play. But saying her play is obv-scum is overlooking her general ability level.

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Your meta is outdated, and you've played with me as very aggressive, non-forgiving town since (that Newbie game lost in the crash). This 'gentle heart' business let two correct scumreads (Tiphaine and StefanB) on Warlocks and Werewolves get away because I was swayed over. I work better if I get my scumreads wagoned with no nonsense or hesitations.

So you have more recent games that are complete showing this aggressive Town Tierce you can lend me?

MoI: Ongoing, so I'll drop the policy lynch issue.

So if you knew it was ongoing why did you even bring it up in the first place? Did you think I wouldn’t pursue?

Of course I see a reason for him to provide as few scumreads as possible as scum. Avoid connections. But Occam's Razor tells me he just doesn't care. I'll look at the game you linked and at his other games and compare, hold.

Occam’s Razor isn’t a reason I find very compelling. It usually doesn’t apply to most Mafia situations and I see it as an out to short-cut to a set conclusion which is much more likely to come from scum IMO.

Re: Vi--I engage in discussion with my scumreads and my opinion is vulnerable to change. My reads came from speedreading of 20 pages in a D1 game, they aren't exactly ironclad.

Well I would think if Vi was one of your ‘four willing to wagon’ picks after your read-through that your read was solid enough that you shouldn’t 180 on Vi after very soft interactions. You didn’t even bring up the concept of why you suspected Vi in those back and forths.

I'm not going to tack my vote on a wagon I don't support, so I'm not going to vote FG or briz. I don't have a decent read on Amrun, so the following wagon that was somewhat acceptable was Parama--but minimal experience tells me I deal better with Parama after some associations are laid out.

So you suddenly had an epiphany about how you handle Parama best four minutes after voting for him but forgot it completely when you made that post?

Don't wagon on the premise of 'DEADLINE'. :/ You're calling me scum the same way I called you scum in Open #374 (where it was scumTierce-townlop for anyone reading along) which is resorting to poor metaing and a few expressions that are telling of mood, not alignment. You seem convinced you are right, and that conviction tells me you're likely town, but this is lousy reasoning.

For someone who just has been calling out Amrun for fence-sitting what is this?

Hiplop is playing in the exact same manner you did with him in a certain gain when he was Town and you were scum, yet you think he’s Town for his conviction?

Reads as trying way too hard to justify a Town read / appease an attacker.

UNVOTE: Parama
VOTE: Tierce

PEdit: What? I've called several people town.

Which is the easiest thing in the world to do as scum (barring multiball) since you already know the majority of everyone else’s alignment. And your reasons for calling several people Town are very, very weak.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Sure.

viewtopic.php?t=14014&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

To be clear – you think that game resembles this game as far as your activity and posting style?

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Ooh, two votes in one post.

Bullets need to be lodged in Parama’s skull tonight given everyone is too accepting of obv-scum play.

Yes, i'm directly calling this non-content producing and active lurking scummy as fuck.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So Tierce really hasn’t addressed most of Post 625. So my vote is probably staying for the rest of the day.

My issue with Tierce is her reactions to questions don’t really make any logical sense from a player with a reputation (which I come by second hand) for being a thinker.

First her Parama vote and responses. I’m sorry, saying “I suddenly remembered 4 minutes later I can handle him better Day 2” just doesn’t fly. No reason to have the ‘ding’ of realization when there are no Non-Tierce posts and 4 minutes between her Parama vote and subsequent vote.

Her answers to my questions regarding her Vi suspicion and subsequent sheeping also conflict with her stances in other areas. Saying "I subject to being influenced by my scum-suspects" does not mesh with her 'This is my Strong Town meta' that she is selling regarding Hiplop’s suspicions. If she’s forceful and bold as Town I have no reason to think the interactions with Vi that we saw would so easily cause her to go from having Vi on her short-list of good lynches to agreeing with Vi that IAI is a good lynch in the short time-frame it did.

Lastly her justifications for the various Town reads she is floating don’t feel solid to me. Occam’s Razor? And her move that I see as appeasement of hiplop? Both don’t feel genuine Town to me.

Amrun: I don't like the main wagons. I'd like people to vote with me, not drop a throwaway vote on wagons that do not convince me the wagonee is scum. The alternative is voting my townreads.

So was Parama a scum-read or not when you voted him? I’d like clarification going forward ….

--

I’d probably be convinced to lynch Shadoweh for Post 695 if it came to it today.

--

I wanted a wagon with a possibility of engaging and flipping before deadline.

So are you voting Tierce because you think she is scum or not? This says you are voting her just because she has votes. And you already had shown suspicion of FakeGod here (including actually voting him) and your answer to Shadoweh at Post 672 doesn’t make much sense since FakeGod is the leading wagon. Why push a secondary wagon so close to deadline?

--

@MoI, I'm not really going on past experience here. I'm going based on Amrun's play IN THIS GAME. It's why I prefer my conclusion to whatever you and Vi have said.

Well if you want to go with your own conclusions that logic doesn’t support be my guest.

--

I'm acting like I don't care so I can post my huge list of notes tomorrow after surviving the NK.
Need a night to sort them out d(''d)

So when this actually never happens tomorrow (assuming he doesn't get vigged) will all you people giving him the “Parama is always terrible” pass please rope him?

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Having

– Why no answer to my question at Post 703?

--

MoI: Most of what you are asking in #624 post feels like an attempt to win an argument rather than figuring out my alignment. I've answered the points I feel are relevant. What haven't I addressed that you feel is essential, other than the meta question? (Have fun with that second link. >.>)

The main thing you ducked was my question about whether you could understand why I was concerned about how you treated your Vi interaction and your justification for the switch from Parama in a manner I didn't see as constructive dialogue.

I like to think things through, but I'm also an impulsive poster. Go look up some of my games--my post count is hardly low in most of them. Yes, I changed my mind in how to treat Parama in those 4 minutes. He's a player who is not being useful, but neither is he visibly pushing a scum agenda. Parama can be read better with some flips and post-D1 interactions, and that is part of how I got an accurate read on him in Destiny Mafia.

See you keep making these statements and I have a hard time seeing the logical flow of your Parama statements here ..

Tierce has succusssfully read Parama in long ended Destiny Mafia.
Tierce does her re-read on replacement and votes Parama completely forgetting said above method of reading Parama.
Tierce, without any indication of a quick ISO on Parama (you’ve had tons of time to say “I did a quick ISO on Parama and ….”) suddenly remembers she’s better at reading him after interactions and flips and moves her vote along with providing a list other, better reads inside of 4 minutes.

I just cannot wrap my head around that pattern.

You also didn’t answer my question – did you have a scum read on Parama when you voted him?

I did not blindly agree with Vi--stop painting me that way. I reread IAI, and reached the conclusion that I don't like what I see there. I still don't, and I need to run through some meta to see if his behavior is alignment independent or not. Regardless, it's not my favorite lynch for today.

What about your interaction with Vi shouldn’t I find suspect. You listed Vi as an acceptable lynch above Parama today. Did you not have a scum read on Vi at that juncture?

Vi comes into the thread and you two banter back and forth. She soft calls you scum in several posts. You don’t press into Vi, which I would expect from someone with a scum read on the slot. Instead you end up saying “Yes, I agree, IAI looks scummy” after ISOing him at Vi’s request.

A read which now you’ve dropped to pursue Pine.

Have you played any completed games with Vi before?

--

What is your read on Pine?

He’s pretty Null to me at this point. I don’t see anything regarding his initial FarrieLord vote that isn’ Town oriented. His reaction to being questioned / pressured isn’t anything out of the ordinary with Pine-Town. My only dislike about his play is his refusal to list out who is scum and the ‘derps / jerks’ who are killing his interest in the game. I actually think the tone here has been pretty damn pleasant as a game about lynching each other goes.

Have you ever used the “Ellie-Tell” in Town games before? If so link to them please.

--

Sorry but your vote choice sucking goats isn't a scumtell. I find it highly likely one of you is scum pushing a dream wagon. I expect the night phases to sort out which.

So you plan to Nightkill me? Solid.

I love your tampering with quotes BTW. Very Pro-Town. Yes, that’s sarcasm …

[MagnaofIllusion]

Yes. I was very able to convince her onto wagonz on failTown (of which I'll remark that IAI is at least half). She was scum.

Thanks. What was the game BTW? It would be good to look at in comparison to her Town games she linked me to.

--

I must be missing something, because I feel like the Tierce wagon is meta-based, but I dont think 7 people share a meta of Tierce.
Can someone sum up the wagon for me?

I must be missing something – I never caught any reason at all for your FakeGod vote. Care to sum up your reasons for me?

--

@MOI...I didn't see your question. Your quote from me is a word for word comment from Tierce who has ignored my comments towards her. It was sarcasm. I do think she is scummy and that's why I'm voting her...and iirc I've given my thoughts on her. Don't feel like looking at this time as I'm on my phone.

Then either use explicit sarcasm tags or stop being cheeky. Because what I saw in Post 650 was you specifically stating you were supporting a wagon irrelevant of scumminess.

--

Another day of forever.

Oh you mean the timeframe fro you to provide content or reasoning in your posts?

--

That's what happened. I was mostly voting Parama to push a wagon not on my townreads, then realized it was stupid to do so when at that stage the difference was one/two votes.

This I guess sort of indirectly answers my “Did you have a scum read on Parama or not” question in a way I hate given I asked you to be explicit about it twice.

I did not try to push her directly--I tried to see if her point re: IAI had merit, which is one of the ways I see if my scumreads are making up stuff or are actually trying to analyze the game.
I change my vote like a maniac on D1. That's not new.

1. Your analysis of Vi does not take into account the possibility we are in Multiball. Why would hypo-scum Vi not have a reason honestly scum-hunt if there is another scum faction to do so? Why would Town Tierce not consider that possibility?
2. Your stance that changing your vote like a maniac Day 1 means it is Null and disregards your stance that you took earlier that “people need to consolidate wagons”. Given the real possibility that they might have had Town reads on the leading wagons themselves (as you are suggesting is your reason for jumping to non-productive vote to non-productive vote) why did you just say “Hey, be good” and not ask them about their thoughts on the wagons? Looks very much like that initial post was “Town cred grabbling” as opposed to your real thoughts on the issue.

Vi, if your reasoning is that I was posting elsewhere like a maniac (I was), there was a threadsplosion in one of my other games. Yes, I know that Ellitell is a rather reliable scumtell with me, but again--you're wrong.

The Cognitive Dissonance here is pretty damn large.

Ellietell is a good tell.
Pine is committing the Ellietell and thus scum. His excuses are irrelevant.
Well I’m doing it also but I have good reasons and I’m not scum.
Pine is still scum.

Confirm Vote: Tierce

[MagnaofIllusion]

Why would I consider multiball before different scum flips/setup indications that we are in multiball? That's backwards. I overthink things enough by myself, I don't need to add to my own confusion. Why do you think I should consider multiball at this stage?

No the point is you are making reads as if it is a Single scum game (re Vi and assessing Vi’s alignment based on whether there is ‘honest’ scum-hunting there) when you, as Town, should have no reason to have any clue to know which we are under.

If Vi was a scum suspect you should be considering her a scum-suspect (as what you saw of Vi’s play that said “scum” isn’t invalidated by ‘honest’ scum hunting) until that time as you have significant evidence to consider it Single or Multi-ball.

That’s if you are Town, of course.

What was it again that made Vi a suspect originally. Don't think I've seen that yet from you.

I was not asking the people in the smaller wagons to vote for the larger wagons, if that's the impression you got. I did not like the larger wagons, so I wouldn't want people to vote them. There's no need to nudge them for wagons I don't want people to join, but there's need for everyone to pull their act together.

See this also makes me want to RAGE! Here is what you said at Post 506 –

Should put their votes to good use: sowrd_of_omens, Dram, malthusis-slot, hiplop, PeregrineV... heck, the list continues. This is ridiculous.

You singled out players voting you, Sword, Deathnote, pidgey, Malthusis as not “putting their vote to good use”. All of those directly mentioned were singleton or doubleton votes. What was the point of saying this if you were not pushing them to consolidate? They aren’t voting the same wagons on Fake and Briz that you were calling bad. Were you saying that all those people (FakeGod / Briz / Sword / Deathnote / Pidgey / Malthusis / yourself were all Town?

Otherwise all you are saying is “Vote who I say you should vote” which is pointless and you shouldn’t have made that statement in the first place unless you are Scum looking to grab ‘Town Cred’.

Not valid reasoning here. I am not using the Ellitell to call him scum as a major reason (neither is Vi w/r/t me). You are saying I'm doing so--when that is not the case. I'm using it to complement a case I have on Pine; it's a good tell, but as with everything, it's not enough for me to say "yep, he's scum". It's the grouping of factors that leads me to the conclusion that Pine is scum.

Yet the only thing you are doing regarding pushing Pine is hammering the ‘Ellitell’ over and over. Somehow I think your explanation here is lacking.

Your case (as shown at Post 635) seems to boil down to the following outside the Elli-tell IMO -

He’s calling FakeGod scum.
Weak FL vote (disagree with this completely, for page 2 it as a very solid early game vote)
He’s coasting and commenting on ‘non-alignment’ things.

If that is your strong case on Pine I don’t see it given that your reasoning could be applied to at least half the game as far as the last point is concerned and calling out FakeGod isn’t a scum-tell AFAIC.

So we are back to ‘Ellitell’ as driving the bus.

[MagnaofIllusion]

My FakeGod vote was because I'm not down with the Tierce wagon just yet, and FakeGod's non-participatory nature has led to a decline on positive reads I had on him.

So why are you not down for a Tierce wagon specifically

YET

?

Do you think she is scummy but you don't want to lynch her Day 1?
Are you waiting for FakeGod to flip before you make an assessment?
What's the deelio?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I mentionned it in my last post before that one. Now if you can stop being a pretentious asswipe I'm sure everyone would love it.

Well that's one right back at you fucking scumbag because my reasons for Tierce being scum have been all over the fucking thread.

You just going to drop in to make stupid, active-lurking posts like this all game?

You so need bullets!

[MagnaofIllusion]

VOTE: FakeGod

On phone but do not believe his claim as stated.

[MagnaofIllusion]

In any case after these last two posts there should be no doubt that Fakes Tracker claim was false. No reason to fake claim as Town.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Also Town protective /travel Watcher roles NOT on me tonight should consider a new hobby.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Well let me see ... no specific time right now due to Mother's Day but

Chesskid / Majiffy

- perhaps you should explain why you were so angry before the flip yesterday. As if you thought he would not flip scum.

Shadoweh

- I'd love an explanation of why you were ridiculing me pre-flip on the same wagon YOU WERE ON! That's something I don't see as very Town driven behavior.

VOTE: Hiraki

You were defending Fake-God from Page 1 when I joked about him being Parama's partner.

Die.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Must've been one of those really funny and obvious jokes.

This is your response? To try to say that I clearly wasn’t joking with that post? Not even attempting to say you weren't defending your scum-buddy? Yeah, you are scum.

--

I'm really sad now. I had this case written up on how Vi was blaming pops for bringing up multiball when Vi did it first. And now Vi is dead. Bah!

So we had a scum-flip and this is the ‘case’ you chose to work on?

--

I just find the voices thing hilarious so I was quoting it as a joke.

Oh so it was a joke and not the posting of scum on a different faction knowing FakeGod wasn’t your partner?

I see.

--

The person

directly
or indirectly
responsible
for the perigrine shot
needs to fucking claim

right the fuck now

If you have information you thinks implicates scum out them. Otherwise shut the fuck up about this. Because your 'outrage' reads as 'trying to cover my tracks for yesterday' to me.

--

Sad to see DeathNote die. He WAS obvtown, but I didn't expect everyone to see him that way. I have a hard time ascribing that kill to scum, unlike Vi. PeregrineV was obvobv vig - or at best, opposing scum factions hunting other scum - but the third party flip and the "Aegis faction" flip does suggest DN was probably killed by scum.

This post makes me want to vote you. It stinks of having more information about who killed whom at Night that Town (aside from a Vig and then I have issue) should not have.

I think Tierce could be FG's partner, but that it's unlikely. She refused to vote him, even to save herself. I would have expected a bus if she was scum with fg.

Again this makes no sense. Tierce came stroming into the thread saying “FakeGod is Town it makes no sense for him to be wagoned” and trying to divert to a number of other people. When said play back-fired and she suddenly became the FG counterwagon she couldn’t exactly say “Hmmm nevermind let’s lynch FakeGod” and not expect for people to view it as anything other than a “save my ass” bus.

--

[MagnaofIllusion]

Trying to cover my tracks?

Im obvtown up in this shit jesus christ.

No, you were the first person decrying FakeGod's flip.

The 'voices' were angry and wanted vengence because FakeGod was mislynch.

Oh wait, he wasn't. He was scum.

If you think you are somehow obv-Town I've got news for you ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

And still waiting for why you think Peregrine the VT was a bad shot ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

ITT someone can't recognize a running gag when they see one.

Nope, I just don't give a fuck about it.

You have anything actually relevant to scum-hunting this game? You had Night to re-read and I have seen no evidence so far you aren't just active lurking.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So thoughts on generic things so far –

Vi flipping a highly modified Serial Killer is meaningful. We started with 23 players in the game. A total scum distribution would be 7 / 8 worst-case. That means we are looking at 6 / 7 other non-Town roles worst-case. If we are in multi-scum (which the Aegis flip hints at but isn’t absolute) then each team is not very large.

What does this mean? Very likely bussing isn’t happening early. Scum have to worry about cross-kills and very limited numbers. No need to weaken your already precarious position with bussing.

I eagerly await Tierce’s content today given her stances yesterday.

--

This post isn't relevant apparently?

And I've already said real-life circumstances are hindering my ability to participate fully at the moment.

So go fuck yourself.

The first post is indeed some content which has been rendered out-dated by 4 flips. And your posts today have been filled with fluff.

If you don’t have significant time to post content right now that’s fine. But don’t toss out fluff like Post 859 and expect me to think you are too busy for content.

--

The voices were not angry about the lynch you clod.

Fantastic. The voices can maybe then explain WTF you are ranting about someone killing VT Peregrine. That’s a clear mystery to me.

This guy is prolly scum btw

Well given he replaced Pine who was one of the only ‘scum’ reads of dead scum Fakegod I’m not really interested in hanging him now.

--

It was L-3 with 14 hours to go, and FG had 9 votes and Tierce 8 votes. A great time to make a statement. But instead you waited until Parama voted FG, and then the claim, and then a MOI vote switch from Tierce to FG stating he did not believe the claim. At this point, a vote was useless, you could have just let it go to the deadline instead of throwing your lame attempt of a bus out there.

1. Do you believe this is multi-scum? Yes or no please.
2. Your logic here is bad. Scum FakeGod claimed an investigation role. Castigating him for hammering scum is quite terrible. Pidgey is unlikely his partner since Tierce claiming VT means that the deadline rush would strongly favor Tierce (unknown alignment) getting the rope over now confirmed scum FakeGod.

--

Vote: Parama

Until he comes back and tells us what he's been gathering.

So let me understand you here … Parama late made a vote that help make FakeGod-scum the lynch of the day. You are voting the replaced out slot simply for policy reasons?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I don't know whose head I' in.
I do know my suggestion was received and ignored.
And I do know I can drive him mad, killing us both (so that's a pretty clear indicator that there's 1 voice per head).

So you think said role is a 3rd Party killing role? In addition to Vi flipping effectively a Modified Serial Killer?

Because the other option is it is a scum member and unless said member is REQUIRED to make the kill for his team (and subject to all sorts of danger there) then suiciding them because you are pissed said person ignored your input is pretty petty and stupid FMPOV.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Scum can't have legitimate scum reads in a multi-scum game? Fucktard.

You really didn’t learn about not being an ass from Divided Germany Mafia did you?

But on topic – it’s lovely that you use a point I never here. That’s called strawmanning.

1. We aren’t assured 100% this is multi-scum especially with Chesskid’s claimed line to a player with a kill who doesn’t make much sense as scum. Three kills from Aegis Mafia - Fire SK Vi - (INSERT DEDICATED KILLING ROLE) makes reasonable sense in single-scum. So why should I jump to attack Pine again?
2. Say were aren’t mutli-scum. Who makes sense as scum then?

--

IaI? 22 posts with nothing decent in any of them?

Get your head out of your ass with that Tierce vote and vote IaI.
And no, I can't talk to him other than give him a name to kill. And he can't talk to me period. Why's the psychiatrist have to be dedz.

But seriously that's even MORE of a reason for an IaI lynch today

Again – why is someone we have no idea of their identity’s refusal to listen to you a motivating factor that indicates we should be listening to your reads as gospel?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Well with the claimed Cop on Pidgy I think the right move for today is to lynch him (unless his claim exonerates him in a way that makes us go after Pappums). He doesn’t make much sense as a partner to FakeGod so his flip of an alternate scum faction would confirm Multi-scum and make things much clearer.

@Pappums

– You have exactly one post to clarify that your vote on Pidgey was not a claim of guilty.

The question of the Day that everyone should consider – how in the hell does Chesskid the Suiciding VT who can suggest a killshot anonymously know that the person who ignored his suggestion to kill IAI shot Peregrine? It’s a mystery all right …

--

I would lean towards the head being scum. I would suggest rather than proposing another target for the head to consider or ignore...that you just commit sewerpipe and take the likely anti-town killing entity with you.

Explain how you came to this conclusion.

--

Read the bolded. Then read what I said. I didn't strawman anything. It can be pretty obviously inferred by what you said here that because the scumread was held by a scum in a multi-scum game, the read isn't important whatsoever to you. It shouldn't matter who the mouth is that's saying it, but what is actually being said.

No clearly your reading comprehension skills need fine tuning.

That statement there says the following – until we have confirmation that this is indeed Multiball (which means two distinct separate Mafia factions) that FakeGod’s push on Pine means he’s very unlikely to be a FakeGod partner. Especially given the timing and context that case from FakeGod came in.

I don't know about you, but my PM said town, not Aegis, and not scum. So that means we're looking at 3 factions already. How much more obvious do you need it?

See here your bravado is just making you look stupid.

Aegis is a Mafia faction. That should be abundantly clear by the Mod flip (you know, the Mod calling it a faction) and the fact that Vi flipped 3rd Party.

So until we have confirmation of another scum faction OTHER than Aegis I’m not going to go after Pine’s slot when other more obviously scummy slots are out there.

Non-town aligned roles. Derp.

Well derp does qualify your response well. I’m asking you to name of PLAYERS who you think are scum if this is a single Mafia faction game. Do you not understand that?

--

Oh okay so I came into the game defending my scumbuddy with turrets instead of taking the easy bus for towncred. Sure. It's a perfectly sensible play that matches my typical scum meta.

So it doesn’t match your scum meta so you must be Town?

'Nothing has changed' when there are four flips and you vote the counterwagon to D1 scum?

I'm obvtown, Amrun.

What do you think of the people involved in both wagons?

The bolded is chucklesome. You are far from obv-Town. The fact that your biggest detractor ended up dead doesn’t help matters on that end.

FL is ridiculously town for that Parama vote. I can explain this, would rather not.

Please do. It is pretty much required.

Why would taking out one scum/3rd party and one town be 'petty and stupid'? I think I'm missing something here. Do you think that chess's 'partner' is town? Why?

Why are you asking pointless questions Tierce? I haven’t said anything of the sort.

I was asking Chesskid to quantify what kind of scum he thought the other player with the kill power is.

It makes no sense for them to be Mafia (at least at this stage, we may get more information down the line). And suiciding just because he’s not being listened to if he doesn’t think said player is a Serial Killer is very Anti-Town (assuming in this discussion that Chess is Town).

IaI potential partner trying to force a bus.

Very much dislike the “Calling out bussing” pre-flip for several reasons.

I don't believe pidgey's behavior is indicative of a scum mentality, and I think your case on him 1) misrepresents him 2) is outright wrong and 3) has no real confidence behind it. I'm voting him because we have a cop guilty on him.

Here’s what it boils down to for me Tierce. You come into this game with a reputation that suggests you are a good scum-hunter as Town.

Pidgey would be the second player (FakeGod being the first) that you have directly claimed that their play does not have scum motivations. Who would end up scum (assuming that Pappums isn't fake-claiming a result).

I’m having a hard time reconciling Tierce the Top Tier Town Scumhunter being completely unable to find scum motivation in scum play from two separate players (if Pidgey is scum).

[MagnaofIllusion]

Because i'm informed who is actually targetted by the person with the killing ability, bro.
I said that already.

Well then regardless of whether they listen to you your ability to confirm who is the target of said player's action is very helpful. So killing yourself isn't a good move at the moment.

Also for the record - if your role PM states it is given to a 'PLAYER' singular unless we have a Mafia faction with discreet kill abilities outside a faction kill (which is not nice) the odds that your other half is Mafia are slim.

[MagnaofIllusion]

This is not even remotely true. What game are you reading? FaerieLord blatantly sheeped me onto FG. LIke, he said, "I'm sheeping Amrun's case."

He’s not reading the game because Hiraki’s scum Amrun. Don’t forget that important element of things

--

Point is, we're still looking at confirmed 3+ parties.

No, the point is that there are significant differences between 3+Parties where only one scum (specifically Mafia not 3rd Party) Factions exists 3+Parties where multiple Scum Factions exist and your lack of understanding of those differences is the issue.

1) Non-town killing roles are scum as far as I'm concerned. Why do you see it differently? Their win conditions directly rival that of town's.

Please stop Straw-manning. I’ve never said that non-Town killing factions aren’t bad and shouldn’t be killed. You are completely dodging the issue with this.

If we are in a Single Mafia game the odds are overwhelming likely that Pine’s slot is NOT scum with FakeGod. What about that has you talking about 3rd Party scum?

--

ALL THIS TALK ABOUT THE VOICES IS USELESS AND I DONT KNOW WHY SO MUCH OF THE INFORMATION OF TODAY IS ABOUT THAT. At best, we are giving the scum more information than what they had.

I very much dislike this response as I know Town Pidgey in a game with unusual mechanics / roles (FF6 Mafia) did not respond to mechanics based posting in this way.

--

Note the irritated tone.

Aside from the fact that I think claims of obvious Tone in a written media are largely crap … the crux of that response was personal history as opposed to anything else then?

Okay, got it. Please don't call my questions stupid; I was trying to figure out your train of thought.

You know there is an actual difference between the words pointless and stupid, correct? Because you using stupid in response to my post at 988 when I did not use that word in what you quoted in the first place strikes me as not-Town behavior.

Have you seen my reasoning for it? On why I think IaI's case is a bucket full of nothing? If pidgey is scum, this feels like a typical forced bus.

I have seen it. I am not really that impressed with your IAI case as it stands. I fully admit part of that is my that my read on you is not currently favorable. Regardless I have concerns other than the quality of the case as to why you out and out calling it bussing at this stage is suspect.

Burden of Proficiency, already? From you?

Yup. Tis the price of wearing a heavy crown of Proficency that you get called on …

I am not a good scumhunter. I'm good at looking town

call me hitogoroshi~

and at, apparently, making scum nervous enough that they kill me off early, but I'm not a 'top tier town scumhunter' (where did you hear this, anyway?).

I direct you to the 2012 Scummies Thread where you are being lauded as the obvious Rising Star for 2012.

Otherwise I find this response meh. People who look Town and get Nightkilled tend to do so because they are threats to scum. I don’t know quite where you get those statistics from or what relevance you think they have but suffice it to say I’m not finding your play obv-Town as you have repeated claimed so your “I look so Town” response here falls flat for me.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Enlighten me, then, because I don't see how our situation makes Pine's slot not scum with FG whereas it would if there were multiple scum factions.

Pine's vote on FakeGod came fairly early in the wagon (fifth vote) and never wavered. He had plenty of opportunity to jump off to other wagons. Furthermore FakeGod's 'Pine' vote came at time when he and Tierce were pretty much tied in votes (7) and there was a small wagon on Pine (he made the third vote).

Those facts combined pretty much sum up why Pine and FakeGod are pretty much very unlikely scum partners.

Pine could have shifted to Tierce if they were partners. FakeGod could have voted Tierce if they were partners. And FakeGod's case isn't likely bussing as survivalism said that scum FakeGod should have been doing everything he could to make sure he wasn't lynched as opposed to trying to bus / distance from a Partner.

So if we are in Single Mafia scum (regardless of number of 3rd Party players) I have zero interest in wagonning Pine now as at worst he's third party and there really isn't evidence of to my mind that that slot is being scummy anyway.

Now if we are in Multi Mafia scum their actions could be scum going at each other or Town-Pine and Scum FakeGod attacking each other. In that case I'd want more information (aka other Mafia flips) before I really dig into assessing his alignment.

So in either case going at Pine's slot is not a high prority for someone looking to effectively hunt scum with the information we have now.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Mod apparently missed my vote on obv-scum Hiraki.

Let me fix that.

VOTE: Hiraki

[MagnaofIllusion]

Finally the obvious conclusion to the day has arrived.

Congrats to Town and especially Shadow and having who both helped bring the thing home to a victory these last few days.