Experimental Role Mafia (GAME OVER!)

[Tierce]

Hey quadz your game title needs fixings.

And hi~ Will be reading momentarily, because zomg was not reading along

what is this

.

[Tierce]

briz is p2 obvnewbtown.

DeathNote doesn't seem to be making much of an early effort, while others are trying to move away from RVS.

I like pops's #75--it goes right in line with what I was thinking about DN.

Oh okay so this is typical DeathNote. Doesn't really help.

I had exactly the same reaction as pidgey to FakeGod's #172.

And here are the famed MoWalls.

@MoI

- I've seen you support policy lynches as town. (fake edit: In fact you do so a few times later on this read) Why is Hiraki asking for a vig shot on DeathNote worthy of a scum read?

Townread on pidgey.

Ray, why ask pops for an opinion on sword_of_omens's catch-up post without bothering to give an opinion yourself. Easy excuse.

More questions from Ray that he doesn't seem to be really drawing an alignment read from. He is asking his

townreads

for reads on other players, and that doesn't make much sense--he's not pulling at those he thinks might be scum.

hiplop please use quote buttons kthx I don't even know who you're referring to and I've just read their posts.

Townread on AV on page 13.

Townread on pops too.

I don't see whay FakeGod scum would not have more scumreads, Amrun. I think his read is bad, yes, but it's more telling of town than scum because there's no scum motivation to stand out that much from the herd.

Bunnylover is a whole bucket of nuthings.

popssotown.

Bunnylover has a lot of commenting without the

whys

. Is this common? Do I need to meta here, or is there a kind soul who can answer me?

Hey Vi this cryptic stuff is funsies but doesn't really get us anywhere and you're not making any visible effort at pushing wagons together.

hiplop's reads are bad and easy lynches.

Light townread on pappums.

---

4 days to deadline, 23 players and the best you have is a wagon on badtown? Hell no.

There is no scum motivation for FakeGod acting the way he has been. None. Nada. Zero. And in the meantime the rest of the game is derping around in minor wagons with no consolidation, and the second wagon is also on town. Scum can sit back and chillax because town lets them.

Let's organize this:

FakeGod (8) Amrun, FaerieLord, pappums rat, Pine, Brizingre1, DeathNote, I Am Innocent, MagnaOfIllusion
Brizingre1 (4) Vi, chesskid3, Pidgey, Hiraki
Parama (2) AurorusVox, havingfitz
Amrun (2) FakeGod, bunnylover
Malthusis (2) PeregrineV, Parama
Pidgey (1) hiplop
DeathNote (1) Malthusis
sword_of_omens (1) Dramonic
BBmolla (1) sword_of_omens

The FakeGod wagon keeps growing steadily and there is no viable counterwagon. Look at that vote spread. Does that look like scum is trying to push a counterwagon to their buddy? No.

Will not vote today, don't care, screw you all: FakeGod, brizingre1, malthusis-slot, pidgey, chesskid3.

Should put their votes to good use: sowrd_of_omens, Dram, malthusis-slot, hiplop, PeregrineV... heck, the list continues. This is ridiculous.

VOTE: Parama
Love and cookies to you too.

Hop to. That FakeGod wagon needs to die.

[Tierce]

Replace chesskid3 with PeregrineV. I had my replacements wrong.

[Tierce]

Also willing to wagon hiplop, Vi, chesskid, Bunnylover. Would prefer any of them to Parama, tbqh. How come none of these players have votes?

UNVOTE: Parama
(Still love and cookies, you.)

VOTE: hiplop

[Tierce]

chesskid entrance wasn't bad, I'll grant you, but the RayFrost posts are bad.

briz is newbtown falling for a gambit. If he were scum, he would have slipped away from the Paramawagon as everyone else did--with a vote for someone else, lalalala, I was never here, etc.

He is sticking to his guns, with his own reasoning. he is pointing out a few other things he is not comfortable with, and they are also his own thoughts. It does not feel contrived.

And hypocrisy is not a scumtell, to put that "oh he's calling out Amrun (?) on something and doing the same himself" to rest.

[Tierce]

briz is newbtown falling for a gambit. If he were scum, he would have slipped away from the Paramawagon as everyone else did--with a vote for someone else, lalalala, I was never here, etc.

He is sticking to his guns, with his own reasoning. he is pointing out a few other things he is not comfortable with, and they are also his own thoughts. It does not feel contrived.

On the one hand, I can see it your way. On the other hand, I can also see it as "I swear I have other reasons". I also hate his most recent post 387.

Question. Since analyzing burgeoning wagons on D1 for scum is totally legitimate, is there anyone on the FakeGod wagon you would consider scummier than most?

Hanlon's Razor says you're probably wrong.

TBH, I have mostly nullish reads on that wagon, and that makes me worry. I don't know if there's scum pushing it or they are just sitting by and watching it grow without interference. Needs more reading, which will probably happen tomorrow.

[Tierce]

TBH, I have mostly nullish reads on that wagon, and that makes me worry. I don't know if there's scum pushing it or they are just sitting by and watching it grow without interference. Needs more reading, which will probably happen tomorrow.

So that's a nice nonanswer and everything.

I know! Isn't it awesome?

Have mercy, I know we're four days to deadline but things and busy and I need to sleep on this so I'll be all bright-eyed in the morning for ISOs. In the meantime, lynching easywagonslop wouldn't be a bad plan at all. However--

Intermission:

<agreeing with Tierce because that's always Townish>

Well you can't argue with that reasoning and you know it.

--the fact that IaI isn't actually bothering to convince people to vote for his scumread in the aforementioned post smells bad. "Move your votes to someone else, but I won't discuss how good or bad the wagon I am on is and how people should be pushing

this

wagon through with 90h to deadline and inactive town."

X

[Tierce]

Spoiler: EBWOP

ISO in progress jesus ever since you got that blue name the whip doesn't stop cracking.

[Tierce]

Initial vote on Bunnylover persists with no visible attempts to scumhunt the slot and calling it 'an easy LyLo lynch'.

Asking for meta on players the way he does seems pointless, as he does not seem engaged enough to go look for it himself.

briz's play should not be dismissed as town poor play--but why is it scummy?

There are bigger fish to fry than Parama, and those are--Bunnylover? Not impressed.

All ridiculously easy wagons--hiplop is not alone here. Very curious how Bunnylover, malthusis and FakeGod are "bigger fish to fry".

#444 has "chesskid, feel free to add my name to the list of people who find malthusis scummy." 'I'm on this easy wagon, but count me up for another easy wagon!'

Jumps on largest easy wagon of easiness (FakeGod).

"Not sure about numbers, but I'd say Bunny < Parama << Malthusis & FG as far as scumminess goes."
Where did this jump in scumminess come from? How is Bunny now less scummy than Parama?


I can go with this~

UNVOTE: hiplop
VOTE: I Am Innocent

[Tierce]

Joined : March 17, 2010
Total posts : 1385
~20 completed games

I'd say he does. I'm not assuming, I've researched it. You, om the other hand, seem to be making assumptions yourself. Why is it that this happens with FakeGod, when you went out of your way to say that malthusis replaced out of another game too?

"Too scummy to be scum" is bullshit, but this guy is not doing that. He is defending his stance and just not giving a damn about y'all.

[Tierce]

@Mod: I am traveling. V/LA for 2 days

So... what is this the disappearing you speak of? He has not been posting on the site since, and we are still inside his V/LA.

[Tierce]

Why do you trust MoI on this, Amrun?

Look, this isn't about winning an argument with FakeGod, and what makes me antsy is that you seem to be trying to do so. It's not so much about whether the reasoning was good or bad, but whether it is coming from a town mindset. What is the scum motivation for attracting attention to himself like that? He has enough experience to know that, as scum, that kind of behavior would set him apart. Logic suggests that he's town and doesn't care if bad reasoning sets him apart.

Bad logic / bad reasoning != scum. You're not looking deep enough, and I know you like to go deeper than that.

FoS: Amrun

[Tierce]

I have lots of conclusions that I can base off of FakeGod's alignment, so far, and if the wagon grows to a lynch, there will only be more.

Pray share what conclusions you have.

[Tierce]

Mmkay.

[Tierce]

Sorry, missed MoI's post. And no, I know these aren't nearly as wall-y as you can get. I've read you, though we've never played together.

Before I get to responses I have a question for Tierce –

What is your read on Dram?

Nonexistent.

And here
@MoI - I've seen you support policy lynches as town. (fake edit: In fact you do so a few times later on this read) Why is Hiraki asking for a vig shot on DeathNote worthy of a scum read?

There is a distinct difference between supporting a policy lynch on a player you don’t think is readable and asking for a player you profess to have a Town read on to be Vigged. Do you disagree?

I don't support policy anythings either way, and my stance on this is documented where you can see it. I'm asking about

your

stance

here

, because you are the kind of player who would p-lynch a townread if they thought their play was poor enough. It does not match your reaction to Hiraki.

I don't see whay FakeGod scum would not have more scumreads, Amrun. I think his read is bad, yes, but it's more telling of town than scum because there's no scum motivation to stand out that much from the herd.

This makes me sad if you are Town and think this. Are you Town Tierce?

That's cute, but cut the condescension. Yes, I am.

Hey Vi this cryptic stuff is funsies but doesn't really get us anywhere and you're not making any visible effort at pushing wagons together.

So right after posting this why the cow-towing to Vi? The fact that IAI doesn’t even show up in your re-read until Vi starts mentioning him doesn’t seem to mesh well with this statement.

Vi asked me about a player, pointed something that seemed scummy about him, and I went and did my research. It's called scumhunting~ Why doesn't it mesh well?

Also willing to wagon hiplop, Vi, chesskid, Bunnylover. Would prefer any of them to Parama, tbqh. How come none of these players have votes?

UNVOTE: Parama
(Still love and cookies, you.)

VOTE: hiplop

So what exactly happened in four minutes that changed Parama from your first vote to behind 4 other reads as your best places for votes?

I was voting Parama because he was already being voted for and this game is slow. I wanted a wagon with a possibility of engaging and flipping before deadline.

And hypocrisy is not a scumtell,

Oh please do explain this in more detail.

What is there is to explain, that's a statement...?

Town is just as hypocritical as scum, if not more--you don't scumhunt your own slot, so you don't bother with behaviors that, to others, come across as hypocritical, because worrying about those does not further the town cause.

The

motive

behind hypocrisy may be scummy, but simply calling hypocrisy scummy is nonsensical.

[Tierce]

Do me a favor and link me to the games you played that show this ability to read her well. Thanks!

Every single one except one (warlocks and werewolves, but it was our first game, and after a little bit I got it right!) Return of the tigers by xalxe is a good one?

Your meta is outdated, and you've played with me as very aggressive, non-forgiving town since (that Newbie game lost in the crash). This 'gentle heart' business let two correct scumreads (Tiphaine and StefanB) on Warlocks and Werewolves get away because I was swayed over. I work better if I get my scumreads wagoned with no nonsense or hesitations.

As for the wagons, yeah, I don't like the two main ones, so I'm not going to vote with them. The thing is, the people who are currently sitting on one-person wagons are not actually making an effort to push them. I'm not calling them scum for it, I'm saying they need to get something done about it.

[Tierce]

Bunnylover: Claiming that you are usually useless--don't do that. You signed up for this game, clearly you were interested in playing. Make an effort. Don't just hand your vote over to someone else.


Pine doesn't seem to be trying from his latest posts, but it's a bit too blatant. Need to ISO.


Amrun:

Tierce wagon gets seal of approval from me. It would be a shame to lynch Tierce Day 1 if we were wrong, though.

Why this fencesitting/appeal to proficiency/whatever it is?

And yes, you're wrong.


FakeGod's #544 is townish. I don't care for the 1v1 he follows it with, but he's looking for Amrun's motivations.


Hiraki is ignoring everything going on in the thread and focusing on one pointless question. What do you think of FG's behavior and Amrun's reaction to it? You're voting briz and defending FG as town. No one else's behavior stands out?


No idea about pappums, I remember a vague townread yesterday. Need to ISO too.


Pine: why is #544 scummy to you?


chesskid is also off in his world. Please comment on what is going on.


FL, other than Brass & Shrapnel, I don't think we've played together except from the start. Where is this "Tierce as a replacement" read coming from?


MoI: Ongoing, so I'll drop the policy lynch issue.
Hiraki is scummy for neglecting to participate on current discussions and focusing on negligible points; have to ISO for more.
Of course I see a reason for him to provide as few scumreads as possible as

scum

. Avoid connections. But Occam's Razor tells me he just doesn't care. I'll look at the game you linked and at his other games and compare, hold.
Re: Vi--I engage in discussion with my scumreads and my opinion is vulnerable to change. My reads came from speedreading of 20 pages in a D1 game, they aren't exactly ironclad.

I'm not going to tack my vote on a wagon I don't support, so I'm not going to vote FG or briz. I don't have a decent read on Amrun, so the following wagon that was somewhat acceptable was Parama--but minimal experience tells me I deal better with Parama after some associations are laid out.

As for that final line--no. I'm trying to get a read on Amrun (who seems to trust you in this after she called you scummy, so I was puzzled), not egging you two on, because frankly I don't care about that.


It would be very easy for sword-scum to leave his vote on me in #560; he chose not to do so until he has caught up. Townpoints.


AV and chesskid are complaining about the wagons they are on but not providing strength for them. Don't sit still and look pretty, do something about it and comment on the game. AV, you say Amrun is a scumread, she has one more vote than Parama--wouldn't that be a better choice? Why is Parama scummier than Amrun/Bunnylover/DN?


PeregrineV: sword is clearly busy elsewhere. What is

your

opinion on the current gamestate?


havingfitz: I gave reasons for voting IAI. They are in the same post I voted him for, the post relates to him.
Why do you think voting with no posted reasoning is scummy?

Do me a favor and link me to the games you played that show this ability to read her well. Thanks!

Every single one except one (warlocks and werewolves, but it was our first game, and after a little bit I got it right!) Return of the tigers by xalxe is a good one?

Your meta is outdated, and you've played with me as very aggressive, non-forgiving town since (that Newbie game lost in the crash). This 'gentle heart' business let two correct scumreads (Tiphaine and StefanB) on Warlocks and Werewolves get away because I was swayed over. I work better if I get my scumreads wagoned with no nonsense or hesitations.

As for the wagons, yeah, I don't like the two main ones, so I'm not going to vote with them. The thing is, the people who are currently sitting on one-person wagons are not actually making an effort to push them. I'm not calling them scum for it, I'm saying they need to get something done about it.

No, you played the same in that game, I called you town the whole time (since you replaced in, that is)

you're scum and its pretty clear too. Also like vi said, DEADLINE

You were scum in that Newbie game. I'm not looking for your read on me in that game, and I'm not here to discuss my own meta because that leads nowhere--the issue is, what info you have was once accurate, but is outdated and you should know better because you've played with me as aggressive, tunneling town.

Don't wagon on the premise of 'DEADLINE'. :/ You're calling me scum the same way I called you scum in Open #374 (where it was scumTierce-townlop for anyone reading along) which is resorting to poor metaing and a few expressions that are telling of mood, not alignment. You seem convinced you are right, and that conviction tells me you're likely town, but this is lousy reasoning.

[Tierce]

You aren't anymore. That comment was made in light of the "I support the Tierce wagon but I'm going to sit on this 10p FakeGod wagon anyway without giving it a final push".

I thought about deleting that line but decided against it because it gives my train of thought.


Why do you think I'm scum?

[Tierce]

Ignore the note on Pine. I see the vague v/la-ishness now, and his ISO is on the townier side of things.

[Tierce]

Can we get the deadline extended for the replacements?

PEdit: What? I've called several people town.

Will not vote today, don't care, screw you all: FakeGod, brizingre1, malthusis-slot, pidgey,

chesskid3

[PeregrineV, see next post]

.

[Tierce]

MoI:
Regarding hiplop: Faking belief in something that is clearly wrong is hard to do; hiplop appears to be actually convinced that his meta on me is correct and that my behavior is scummy. I use belief/conviction and certain instances of outrage as alignment tells.

Going back to the policy lynch issue: I wanted to follow a certain line of questioning with it, then realized it would skirt too close to the rules, and have no interest in pushing it further.


IAI:
You call not giving reasoning for votes from my slot scummy; I'm going to be upfront and say that that is BBmolla's MO; I can provide meta links.

However, what I'm interested on is: Why is my slot not giving reasoning for votes scummy, yet you make no comment on other players who are voting with no posted reasoning?



Pine - I see percentages as null. Recently, DDDP asked me, in percentages, how sure I was about the alignment of three people. He was town.

OMGUS isn't scummy per se. Town do it all the time because they take offense at being called scum and think the voters are opportunistic.

You say he was annoyed that 'people are suspecting him for the wrong reasons'. This isn't scummy, at best it's null. Scum can be caught for the wrong reasons and get annoyed about it, but town get annoyed about that all the time too. If you're town and you're accused of being scum, getting annoyed and calling the wagon opportunistic is one of the most natural reactions.

Neither was FakeGod trying to make Amrun look uncertain, as the immediate thing he did--look at the response time--was 1v1 her. With 10 or however many votes he was at by the time of that post, a FakeGod D1 lynch was a real possibility, and you think he would instigate a 1v1 as scum, when there is no benefit on it because people don't see it as a towntell? Great, he scared one vote away from him, but that was it. There is no motivation to behave as he has if he is scum.

In short, you are trying to paint what FakeGod paints as scummy when, looking at the motivations behind that post, it makes no sense for him to act like that as scum, and lots of sense for him to act like that as town.


Your initial vote on FL was weak. Jumping on someone who says "because why not?" when placing a vote on the second page is another sign of not looking at motivations. You are just looking at behaviors and jumping on them. What motivation could FL have, as scum, to act like he did? None. It attracts attention to himself. Your vote was bad. You mention juicy stuff and gambiting on page 1 as being something people should be picking at, yet you don't do so yourself before voting FL, and never go back to it again.


FL follows Amrun's reasoning--why is sheeping scummy? It's annoying, but in that case, why have you not made any mention of Bunnylover? You're fixated on FaerieLord.


#363 is awful. "I'm sitting on this FL vote, but I'll wagon FG with you. Only later." You showed no intention of pushing FL further, so you were just sitting on this vote until someone (Amrun) persuaded you away from it and onto a larger wagon.


In addition, blatant Ellitell when one looks at your posts elsewhere. You're lurking here and posting considerably more often in other games, and I think the fact that you are posting more on games you say you 'enjoy' is indicative of your alignment.


You spend a lot of the game coasting and commenting on non-alignment related aspects instead of actually approaching issues being discussed in-thread. Your involvement is superficial--you discuss your stance on sheeping, ignore Hiraki with no real attempt at reading him, can't be bothered to check the votes... It feels like you are avoiding taking strong stances, and when you do, like with FaerieLord and FakeGod, you are not looking for alignment, you are taking posts at face value. You are not looking at intentions.

UNVOTE: I Am Innocent
VOTE: Pine

[Tierce]

Amrun: I don't like the main wagons. I'd like people to vote with me, not drop a throwaway vote on wagons that do not convince me the wagonee is scum. The alternative is voting my townreads.

[Tierce]

Not ignoring you, but the only way I can answer your posts is with a slightly wordier version of "you're wrong", and that is not something that's likely to change your mind.

[Tierce]

5 May 2012 04:05:02

5 May 2012 07:49:07

5 May 2012 17:57:09

[Tierce]

5 May 2012 04:05:02

5 May 2012 07:49:07

5 May 2012 17:57:09

By which I mean--Pine, why doesn't this game deserve your attention, when you've been on site at least three times today?

[Tierce]

5 May 2012 21:49:41
5 May 2012 23:10:53

Anytime now, Pine.


AV, Shadoweh--Parama isn't pulling his weight, I'll grant you--but Parama being a troll and useless in early game isn't anything new from Parama-town. It's easier to read him later on, which is why I'm not worried about him overmuch.

[Tierce]

5 May 2012 04:05:02

5 May 2012 07:49:07

5 May 2012 17:57:09

By which I mean--Pine, why doesn't this game deserve your attention, when you've been on site at least three times today?

Because I don't like this game. It's full of assholes, derps, and people who feel way too self-important. I'm not invested in it.

Your timestamp attack is really, really bad. If you had actually done your research instead of faking it, you'd see that I only posted in a couple of my games today, and have been slacking in several, this one included. Finals can do that to you.

Pine, the truth of the matter is: you are not invested in this game, fine. You are slacking off due to finals, fine. But your posts here don't have nearly the complexity of thought you are putting into other games, don't have the frequency in which you post in other games, and you have not addressed the rest of what I brought against you. Yesterday you signed up for a new game. If you are that pressed for time, this does not make much sense. You signed up for this game, and are now accusing the playerlist of being 'derps and assholes' and show no interest in figuring out their alignment. When pressed for time, you should be focusing on the crunch of things, yet your posts here address minor issues that are not relative to alignment while disregarding main discussions. That is coasting, and having finals doesn't change my perception of your alignment.


chesskid, why are you voting for me?

[Tierce]

Somewhat, yes. However, the fact that she's the main counterwagon to someone I'm pretty sure is scum suggests that she's Town. Depends on FG's flip.

FL, I'm ignoring your questions because they are irrelevant (other than "who is scum".)

I'd be replacing out of this game, but replacements are hard to come by these days and I don't want to do that to our Mod.

You're still ignoring my case.

If you want to replace out, you have ample opportunity to do it. Whatever your alignment, you are not helping your team mates with the position you have been taking in this game. Replacements may be hard, but waiting for a replacement that injects life in your slot would be better for your faction than this bleak and detached attitude you have. As it is, it looks like you want to pin the slot's current behavior on replacement woes; players get replaced all the time, I'm sure the mods would be able to handle it.

As it is, you are delaying things till deadline and forcing a rushed situation one way or another. Why? If my wagon is being pushed by scum,

who

are the scum pushing it? You have no real stances, no real presence. Throw us a bone.

[Tierce]

MoI: Most of what you are asking in #624 post feels like an attempt to win an argument rather than figuring out my alignment. I've answered the points I feel are relevant. What haven't I addressed that you feel is essential, other than the meta question? (Have fun with that second link. >.>)

I like to think things through, but I'm also an impulsive poster. Go look up some of my games--my post count is hardly low in most of them. Yes, I changed my mind in how to treat Parama in those 4 minutes. He's a player who is not being useful, but neither is he visibly pushing a scum agenda. Parama can be read better with some flips and post-D1 interactions, and that is part of how I got an accurate read on him in Destiny Mafia.

I did not blindly agree with Vi--stop painting me that way. I reread IAI, and reached the conclusion that I don't like what I see there. I still don't, and I need to run through some meta to see if his behavior is alignment
independent or not. Regardless, it's not my favorite lynch for today.


What is your read on Pine?

[Tierce]

I realize it is majority vote at deadline. My point is onesie and twosie wagons are a waste at this point. Especially one vote wagons like Parama. And while I would support a Parama lynch ...I dont think it would overtake either of the frontrunners. Both of whom I would support as well.

Supporting a Parama lynch, supporting an FG lynch, supporting a Tierce lynch--I get the feeling you are not trying to figure out who is the more likely to be scum (hint: that'd be Pine). You're looking for a lynch instead of scum, and I don't see you pushing anyone in any direction that would give you a solid read on alignments.

[Tierce]

MoI: Most of what you are asking in #624 post feels like an attempt to win an argument rather than figuring out my alignment. I've answered the points I feel are relevant. What haven't I addressed that you feel is essential, other than the meta question? (Have fun with that second link. >.>)

The main thing you ducked was my question about whether you could understand why I was concerned about how you treated your Vi interaction and your justification for the switch from Parama in a manner I didn't see as constructive dialogue.

I can

understand

your point re: Vi, but I've been honest about what happened there, can't do more than that. I've explained the Parama vote and why I changed it.

I like to think things through, but I'm also an impulsive poster. Go look up some of my games--my post count is hardly low in most of them. Yes, I changed my mind in how to treat Parama in those 4 minutes. He's a player who is not being useful, but neither is he visibly pushing a scum agenda. Parama can be read better with some flips and post-D1 interactions, and that is part of how I got an accurate read on him in Destiny Mafia.

See you keep making these statements and I have a hard time seeing the logical flow of your Parama statements here ..

Tierce has succusssfully read Parama in long ended Destiny Mafia.
Tierce does her re-read on replacement and votes Parama completely forgetting said above method of reading Parama.
Tierce, without any indication of a quick ISO on Parama (you’ve had tons of time to say “I did a quick ISO on Parama and ….”) suddenly remembers she’s better at reading him after interactions and flips and moves her vote along with providing a list other, better reads inside of 4 minutes.

I just cannot wrap my head around that pattern.

You also didn’t answer my question – did you have a scum read on Parama when you voted him?

That's what happened. I was mostly voting Parama to push a wagon

not

on my townreads, then realized it was stupid to do so when at that stage the difference was one/two votes.

I did not blindly agree with Vi--stop painting me that way. I reread IAI, and reached the conclusion that I don't like what I see there. I still don't, and I need to run through some meta to see if his behavior is alignment independent or not. Regardless, it's not my favorite lynch for today.

What about your interaction with Vi shouldn’t I find suspect. You listed Vi as an acceptable lynch above Parama today. Did you not have a scum read on Vi at that juncture?

Vi comes into the thread and you two banter back and forth. She soft calls you scum in several posts. You don’t press into Vi, which I would expect from someone with a scum read on the slot. Instead you end up saying “Yes, I agree, IAI looks scummy” after ISOing him at Vi’s request.

A read which now you’ve dropped to pursue Pine.

Have you played any completed games with Vi before?

Vi has answered this.
I did not try to push her directly--I tried to see if her point re: IAI had merit, which is one of the ways I see if my scumreads are making up stuff or are actually trying to analyze the game.
I change my vote like a maniac on D1. That's not new.

Have you ever used the “Ellie-Tell” in Town games before? If so link to them please.

Used it

, in thread, no, not by that name. But when analyzing players I often compare their activity elsewhere--Blood Bowl Mafia, for example.


sword_of_omens/Majiffy is town, it would be very easy for that slot to fade into replacement land without analyzing the two main wagons. Instead, he was still concerned about the deadline and trying to give input. He

didn't

get to give it, which detracts from the townpoints above, but the original intent feels townish.

(Majiffy: Hi there. Rational != town, and you should know that from the game we've just finished. That logic doesn't flow.)


havingfitz: What is there to reply to in your comments? I've already explained it: I was calling out several players on wagons that were not moving, but the main wagons were on my townreads. Parama was an alternative choice, but that wagon has been tried today, has no traction, and more importantly--I can read Parama better later on. 'Consolidating wagons' does not mean that everyone should vote the main wagons, it means that people need to make their votes count. I've been trying to do that.

@Tierce- All my reads right now are weak, and not very strongly evidence based. But, that's kind of what you get with day1. What is your response to hiplop, who I'm finding myself agreeing with.

Also liked Fitz's Bunny vote, almost exclusively for the quoted post.

Unvote.
Vote: Bunnylover

If you agree with hiplop, why is your failvote on Bunnylover, PV?

Because I want to hear Tierce's response first.

Did my answers satisfy you? I don't understand your FakeGod vote, otherwise--and if you are trying to push one of the two largest wagons through, you're probably hitting town.

You haven't commented on Pine yet. Why is that?


Vi, if your reasoning is that I was posting elsewhere like a maniac (I was), there was a threadsplosion in one of my other games. Yes, I know that Ellitell is a rather reliable scumtell with me, but again--you're wrong.

[Tierce]

And the one where Furcolow had higher accuracy than me.

Or are you trying to imply that you're right because I'm dumb?

I see a question here, but not sure how I should answer it without offending you....

@sword, 467, if ur vote on bb is not doing anything, please find another wagon you find scummy to move to.

@hiraki, 470, isn't that kind of stunt better early in the day than this close to the deadline? (hint hint, the answer is yes.)

Bunny's post and vote in 483 was just horrible, which probably means bunny is town again. sigh.

Agree with Tierce that we need to start consolidating wagons. With 4 days to the lynch, if your vote is the only one for that person, move it to another wagon already.

Calling for consolidation of wagons (was voting FakeGod). Why emphasize this, if you know it's a plurality lynch?

I'm here, just sitting back watching everyone make, or in too many cases, not make there moves. With the one exception that the names on the wagon are pretty shady, I am still happy with my vote and in the short term will spend my time updating my spreadsheet with the voting history.

@everyone on a wagon of 1, in your next post, please tell me why you are so intent on keeping your vote, as the lone vote, on that wagon. IOW, sell the group on what they are missing that you seem to know.

p-edit, Count this as a 2nd request for an extension due to replacements.

Because the people on a wagon of 1 think their target is scum. This feels like you are pushing not for people to jump on wagons that have merit for you (like the FakeGod wagon) but wanting a secondary wagon. I.e. you should be trying to sell the FakeGod wagon, not expect the game to make that decision for you.

Why did you jump back on Parama for no apparent reason?

I don't remember. I had some reason, I just can't recall.

UNVOTE:

Gimme a bit.

Up to this part in my voting history spreadsheet. This post caught my eye and had me curious about his iso.

Wow, Tierce your predecessor really had a bad iso. This is his second to last post, and his last one never had a reason either. Not gonna lie, between this iso and a case on me that I felt was very bad, I seriously think you may be scum.

I see nothing here that can be replied to, nothing that can be built on--you're throwing me an accusation I can't reply to and give yourself an excuse to jump between the two main wagons, while you don't show interest in finding out if one is more likely to hit scum than the other.

I don't appear to have a prod notice, but one is probably warranted soon if not already. I'll promise to give this thread the attention it deserves this weekend.

Quick skim through and one item I would like to comment on is Vi's put your vote where your mouth is statement.

Here is my thought process:

FG definitely could be scum too, and has done nothing to change that read

I understand that scum Tierce could be trying to deflect from another wagon, but why a case on me? And a bad one at that. When I replace in as scum, I try to not muddy the waters that much, hence why I am still hesitant to move my vote, despite BBmolla's "forgetfulness" post prior to replacing out.

TBF, I like this logic.

Vi, you said you would be astonished if FG does not flip scum, yet your voting Tierce currently right? Why her over him?

This and later you jumped between FakeGod and me? Do you

really

think both wagons are on scum?

Also, what suspicion of FakeGod? He was a mediocre midDay wagon.

Yeah, looking back I see that now.

Mediocre wagon for Vi. Why aren't

you

trying to convince Vi that FakeGod is a good case, other than the above?

it's your or tierce at this point dude

not pine

I'd love to make you happy pirateface but I don't think a Parama wagon would get far right now

With two and a half days until deadline and majority lynches, any vote placed that isn't intended to skyrocket a wagon is an implicit vote for FakeGod. If you don't want a FakeGod lynch, get your act together.

Post like these are just wrong.

Anybody

is still game at this point. Nobody needs 12 votes for a lynch, heck 6 or 7 might do the job based on this (underlined added for emphasis):

7)

If there is no majority at deadline, the player with the highest number of votes will be lynched.

Anyone not voting will be counted as voting for no-lynch. If two or more players are tied for the most votes, the player who has been at that number of votes for the longest amount of time will be lynched.

Was deciding when I wanted to bring this up. I think 2.5 days prior to the deadline seems about right. I am actually okay with FG or Tierce, and would rather see close wagons at the deadline forcing scum to make a decision on how bad they want a teammate to remain in the game. Ideally, a 3rd wagon would be nice as well. My personal preference is Parama. His play is scummy, and his latest 'I want to stay alive through the night so I can give my reads early D2' is scummy. With 23 people, the chances of a vig are reasonable, and if he is town and does have great reads, GET THEM OUT NOW! Because if I am him right now, I'd be very concerned of getting night-vigged.

Oh, and I will not be joining the Pine wagon.

To make things interesting, let's start with this and see where things go with the top two wagons getting even closer as we approach the deadline:

unvote: FG
Vote: Tierce

Still okay with the two main wagons, on D1? You're not making a stance, even with the vote change. You don't seem interested in figuring out which of the wagons is more likely to flip scum.

Why do you think Pine isn't scum?


PEdit: As I said--there's nothing I can say about that other than acknowledge what it is. I'm not blaming you for pointing it out.

[Tierce]

Pine is still nowhere to be seen ITT, yet he is on site right now.

[Tierce]

Yes. I was very able to convince her onto wagonz on failTown (of which I'll remark that IAI is at least half). She was scum.

Thanks. What was the game BTW? It would be good to look at in comparison to her Town games she linked me to.

Here.

I did not try to push her directly--I tried to see if her point re: IAI had merit, which is one of the ways I see if my scumreads are making up stuff or are actually trying to analyze the game.
I change my vote like a maniac on D1. That's not new.

1. Your analysis of Vi does not take into account the possibility we are in Multiball. Why would hypo-scum Vi not have a reason honestly scum-hunt if there is another scum faction to do so? Why would Town Tierce not consider that possibility?

Why would I consider multiball before different scum flips/setup indications that we are in multiball? That's backwards. I overthink things enough by myself, I don't need to add to my own confusion. Why do you think I should consider multiball at this stage?

2. Your stance that changing your vote like a maniac Day 1 means it is Null and disregards your stance that you took earlier that “people need to consolidate wagons”. Given the real possibility that they might have had Town reads on the leading wagons themselves (as you are suggesting is your reason for jumping to non-productive vote to non-productive vote) why did you just say “Hey, be good” and not ask them about their thoughts on the wagons? Looks very much like that initial post was “Town cred grabbling” as opposed to your real thoughts on the issue.

I was not asking the people in the smaller wagons to vote for the larger wagons, if that's the impression you got. I did not like the larger wagons, so I wouldn't want people to vote them. There's no need to nudge them for wagons I don't want people to join, but there's need for everyone to pull their act together.

Vi, if your reasoning is that I was posting elsewhere like a maniac (I was), there was a threadsplosion in one of my other games. Yes, I know that Ellitell is a rather reliable scumtell with me, but again--you're wrong.

The Cognitive Dissonance here is pretty damn large.

Ellietell is a good tell.
Pine is committing the Ellietell and thus scum. His excuses are irrelevant.
Well I’m doing it also but I have good reasons and I’m not scum.
Pine is still scum.

Not valid reasoning here. I am not using the Ellitell to call him scum as a major reason (neither is Vi w/r/t me). You are saying I'm doing so--when that is not the case. I'm using it to

complement

a case I have on Pine; it's a good tell, but as with everything, it's not enough for me to say "yep, he's scum". It's the

grouping

of factors that leads me to the conclusion that Pine is scum.



PEdit: FL--posting on other games/throughout the site while avoiding a game in particular. It's an evidence of active lurking.

[Tierce]

Will catch up with this in the morning, spent a good chunk of the evening lugging suitcases across the city.

[Tierce]

Why would I consider multiball before different scum flips/setup indications that we are in multiball? That's backwards. I overthink things enough by myself, I don't need to add to my own confusion. Why do you think I should consider multiball at this stage?

No the point is you are making reads as if it is a Single scum game (re Vi and assessing Vi’s alignment based on whether there is ‘honest’ scum-hunting there) when you, as Town, should have no reason to have any clue to know which we are under.

If Vi was a scum suspect you should be considering her a scum-suspect (as what you saw of Vi’s play that said “scum” isn’t invalidated by ‘honest’ scum hunting) until that time as you have significant evidence to consider it Single or Multi-ball.

WTF? No. I assume single-ball by default and I have no reason to think this is multiball, so I won't unless there is evidence of such. Your reasoning is clumsy at best and scummy at worst, MoI--there is no reason for me not to create reads with singleball in mind. If we get multiball evidence, I'll restructure my reads accordingly, but until then, what's the point in blind speculation with no ground for it?

What was it again that made Vi a suspect originally. Don't think I've seen that yet from you.

Vi-town doesn't usually keep up the cryptic act for long because she wants to explain things and push her scumreads. The mostly mute behavior was bugging me.

I was not asking the people in the smaller wagons to vote for the larger wagons, if that's the impression you got. I did not like the larger wagons, so I wouldn't want people to vote them. There's no need to nudge them for wagons I don't want people to join, but there's need for everyone to pull their act together.

See this also makes me want to RAGE! Here is what you said at Post 506 –

Should put their votes to good use: sowrd_of_omens, Dram, malthusis-slot, hiplop, PeregrineV... heck, the list continues. This is ridiculous.

You singled out players voting you, Sword, Deathnote, pidgey, Malthusis as not “putting their vote to good use”. All of those directly mentioned were singleton or doubleton votes. What was the point of saying this if you were not pushing them to consolidate? They aren’t voting the same wagons on Fake and Briz that you were calling bad. Were you saying that all those people (FakeGod / Briz / Sword / Deathnote / Pidgey / Malthusis / yourself were all Town?

I called for consolidation. And I pushed an alternative wagon. Why do you assume that my call for consolidation was on the then-leading wagons? I wanted people to push

their

cases instead of lumping together on FakeGod or malthusis, to convince others to join alternative wagons with a higher chance of hitting scum.

Otherwise all you are saying is “Vote who I say you should vote” which is pointless and you shouldn’t have made that statement in the first place unless you are Scum looking to grab ‘Town Cred’.

Sheeping me is fine and more people should do it, but etc.

Not valid reasoning here. I am not using the Ellitell to call him scum as a major reason (neither is Vi w/r/t me). You are saying I'm doing so--when that is not the case. I'm using it to complement a case I have on Pine; it's a good tell, but as with everything, it's not enough for me to say "yep, he's scum". It's the grouping of factors that leads me to the conclusion that Pine is scum.

Yet the only thing you are doing regarding pushing Pine is hammering the ‘Ellitell’ over and over. Somehow I think your explanation here is lacking.

Pine has been ignoring me. The only thing he mentioned was his own activity. He refused to address the rest of my case. I'm not hammering the tell over and over, but if he doesn't post and ignores me, I

am

going to remark on that.

Your case (as shown at Post 635) seems to boil down to the following outside the Elli-tell IMO -

He’s calling FakeGod scum.
Weak FL vote (disagree with this completely, for page 2 it as a very solid early game vote)
He’s coasting and commenting on ‘non-alignment’ things.

If that is your strong case on Pine I don’t see it given that your reasoning could be applied to at least half the game as far as the last point is concerned and calling out FakeGod isn’t a scum-tell AFAIC.

My case on Pine is that he is outlining behavior as scummy without looking at the motivations for this behavior. This is typical of scum wanting to win arguments, not wanting to figure out alignments. In addition, some of the behavior he called scummy isn't even scummy anyway, it's null, so he is making up stuff to sell the town on a fake scumread.

I, like Fitz, have a group of people that feel scummy that I wouldn't mind offing. And that includes the 2 largest wagons currently, so I am in a good place.

This is my problem, I can't see how you are in favor of both wagons. Do you think we're both scum? Do you have any conclusions lined up regarding my alignments or FakeGod's when the other flips?

I'll take my chances that if we mislynch today, that mislynch will give us more answers down the road to catching even more scum. Remember the game is not won until the last mafia is lynched, not the first.

Yeah the thing is that I don't really see you expressing any thinking about this. What actual opinions do you

currently

have about the wagons, the wagonnees, the timing, other than you being 'a good place' with the two main wagons?

Q. "This and later you jumped between FakeGod and me? Do you really think both wagons are on scum?"

A. I thought I caught Vi in a contradication, I was apparently wrong. As for your second question, it is possible. You both currently are voting other players than each other.

In case it hasn't been made abudantly clear, I'm not voting for FakeGod because I don't think he's scum.

So when I said I hope there are claims before there's a day left, I was hoping whoever was in the lead would actually claim before there was a day left. There is a day left. Both the leading wagons should spill since it looks like this is going to deadline. Stop fucking around and claim you pansies before there's a magical 'omg it's the cop' rush at the last second.

If I had anything to claim I would have done so already. VT.

One of FakeGod/Tierce is almost certainly scum, probably FakeGod.

Bleah.
Why? Because of the wagon size and the fact that there are two competing wagons? It's D1 and none of the wagons is being pushed over the other--scum are comfortable to let this go to deadline, they have no need to save a scumbuddy from an impending lynch because neither of us are scum.


pidgey's reads mostly boil down to nulls, but I can see the reasoning behind them--he's thinking dynamically about the game and trying to reach a workable decision at this stage. Still town.

---

Town:
FakeGod
hiplop
malthusis-Shadoweh
PeregrineV
pidgey

Probtown:
AurorusVox
brizingre1
Bunnylover
FaerieLord

Probscum:
havingfitz
Hiraki

Scum:
I Am Innocent
Pine-slot

[Tierce]

chess, here is what I don't understand: you say that the person who shot Peregrine isn't town--but how does that relate to your ability, when you don't know who you're talking to and I assume you don't know who they shot either? Makes no sense.

Vi clearly didn't shoot Peregrine--as a modified SK, he'd want to strike someone that would attract attention that night, since Vi's ability apparently surpasses doc protections. I could see Vi targetting MoI; any watchers or docs on MoI would die too.

If Peregrine weren't dead, I'd be voting him right now.

Sad to see DeathNote die. He WAS obvtown, but I didn't expect everyone to see him that way. I have a hard time ascribing that kill to scum, unlike Vi. PeregrineV was obvobv vig - or at best, opposing scum factions hunting other scum - but the third party flip and the "Aegis faction" flip does suggest DN was probably killed by scum.

VOTE: Tierce

Nothing has changed since yesterday, plus defense of FG, etc.

I want to re-read yesterday and see who was all about soft defenses of FG besides PeregrineV.

Pine obv not scum with FG. FL either. I remember that much.

Oh okay so I came into the game defending my scumbuddy with turrets instead of taking the easy bus for towncred. Sure. It's a perfectly sensible play that matches my typical scum meta.

'Nothing has changed' when there are four flips and you vote the counterwagon to D1 scum? I'm obvtown, Amrun. What do you think of the people involved in both wagons?


AV, Parama didn't have any notes. He was trolling. It's his MO.

ALSO who was all like, "Mah baby don't mess around, because she loves me so and this I know fo shoooooo"

Prob language/cultural barrier. What does this mean?

Most subtle softclaims ever.

Four flips since your last post, and this is all you have to add? Thoughts please? Who is scum?

Why dram and not Amrun?

@Group, do you think Tierce & FG are/were teammates, or do you think Tierce was the counterwagon. I want everyone on record with this.

What is

your

opinion?

Not until 767 does he post, and here is his comments on FG (underline added for emphasis):

Not true. And he had some pretty good insight before #767, too, like Post 184, Post 261, Post 450. Why misrepresent him like this?

[pidgey]

finishes the post by throwing out 4 other names to consider

"So, I'm not convinced by any of the 2 wagons and not many people are convinced. I will think about it as I study and join one before I go to bed if I must, but:
a)Briz wagon going down makes me sad.
b)Pappum is acting very fishy, not giving much of reads while giving fluff.
c)Havingfits is fluffing and coasting the game, imo.
d)IAI vote to "HEAT THINGS UP" is stupid."

He had scumreads he preferred to see wagoned other than the main wagons, and would rather vote those, BUT is willing to consign his vote to the main wagons with 24h to deadline. Look at the timing. How does that make him scum?
The way you address him as scum ('FakeGod's teammate', 'Tierce's possible teammate') throughout this post makes it look like you call pidgey scum and then try to figure what makes him scum. The case seems fabricated.

Post 778, he still does this stuff where he hints at a bus but still defends his teammate FG (and possible second teammate Tierce) "I can actually see the possibility somewhere that MAYBE fakegod is scum and his lynch might be salvaged for a day from the amount of people that have joined the wagon and went out. I doubt he might be scum from his play though. But I doubt it more with Tierce, honestly."

This is not inconsistent with the train of thought of someone who legitimately thinks FakeGod and I are town and is trying to figure out where to place his vote to make a difference if need be, with the wagons around the same size. Why do you think it's scummy?

Post 782, more of the same as he addresses his teammate "...I just think you both are town and this lynch isnt really worth it one way or another. But i still think you have a slightly better chance to flip scum maybe."

Again, not inconsistent with town-think.

Post 801, after Parama votes FG, FG claims, MOI votes FG to L-1, the meaningless bus hammer vote comes
"There's less than 6 hours remaining.
No other wagon will form.
vote: Fakegod"

vote: Pidgey

Point taken here, though; the timing feels like he wanted to squash further discussion after the claim.

I need to re-evaluate that whole situation but I'm in a bus station.

Side note: You have no idea how many times I had to read this until it clicked. Mafia terminology makes RL expressions stop making sense even when the origin is the same. >.> (As an aside to the aside, did you know that 'bus' comes from Latin and is actually just a particle meaning 'for'? Yeah. /pointless Latin studies trivia)

I think Tierce could be FG's partner, but that it's unlikely. She refused to vote him, even to save herself. I would have expected a bus if she was scum with fg.

Again this makes no sense. Tierce came stroming into the thread saying “FakeGod is Town it makes no sense for him to be wagoned” and trying to divert to a number of other people. When said play back-fired and she suddenly became the FG counterwagon she couldn’t exactly say “Hmmm nevermind let’s lynch FakeGod” and not expect for people to view it as anything other than a “save my ass” bus.

Option C) I thought FakeGod was town and as a VT I won't jump on counterwagons to save my skin in a game called

Experimental Role

.


FL is ridiculously town for that Parama vote. I can explain this, would rather not.

2. Your logic here is bad. Scum FakeGod claimed an investigation role. Castigating him for hammering scum is quite terrible. Pidgey is unlikely his partner since Tierce claiming VT means that the deadline rush would strongly favor Tierce (unknown alignment) getting the rope over now confirmed scum FakeGod.

Word. Scum pidgey could easily vote me solely on the difference of the claims and have no problem today with it. (Fake edit: see end of post, though.)

Do you know if your target recommendation was targetting scum? I assume not.

It didn't target scum if it targeted Peregrineofctown. Why ask chess if he knew the alignment of the target? If he had a guilty, he would have claimed it by now.

I don't know whose head I' in.
I do know my suggestion was received and ignored.
And I do know I can drive him mad, killing us both (so that's a pretty clear indicator that there's 1 voice per head).

So you think said role is a 3rd Party killing role? In addition to Vi flipping effectively a Modified Serial Killer?

Because the other option is it is a scum member and unless said member is REQUIRED to make the kill for his team (and subject to all sorts of danger there) then suiciding them because you are pissed said person ignored your input is pretty petty and stupid FMPOV.

Why would taking out one scum/3rd party and one town be 'petty and stupid'? I think I'm missing something here. Do you think that chess's 'partner' is town? Why?

3rd party. And it really doesn't matter if you can't think of a reason for it, the flip is pretty blatantly there. Also check the name of the thread again and stop overthinking obvious things.

No. FakeGod flipped 'Aegis faction'. Vi flipped Third Party.

I didn't see Tierce's flip and I don't see the four flips that are out there clearing her.

Look at the wagons yesterday:

Brizingre1 (3) chesskid3, Pidgey, Hiraki

DeathNote

(1) Malthusis
sword_of_omens (2) Dramonic,

PeregrineV

Parama (1) AurorusVox
I Am Innocent (1) Tierce

FakeGod

(9) FaerieLord, pappums rat, Pine, Brizingre1,

DeathNote

, I Am Innocent, MagnaOfIllusion, havingfitz, bunnylover
Amrun (1)

FakeGod

Tierce (4) sword_of_omens, hiplop,

Vi

, Amrun
Malthusis (1) Parama

Pine (3) Tierce, Hiraki,

FakeGod

Brizingre1 (1) Pidgey

FakeGod

(9) FaerieLord, pappums rat, Pine, Brizingre1,

DeathNote

, bunnylover, Dramonic,

PeregrineV

, Shadoweh
Tierce (8) hiplop,

Vi

, Amrun, MagnaOfIllusion, havingfitz, chesskid3, I Am Innocent, AurorusVox
Shadoweh (1) Parama

Not Voting (1) - Majiffy

Pine (3) Tierce, Hiraki,

FakeGod

FakeGod

(12)

FaerieLord, pappums rat, Pine, Brizingre1,

DeathNote

, bunnylover, Dramonic,

PeregrineV

, Shadoweh, Parama, MagnaOfIllusion, Pidgey
Tierce (7) hiplop,

Vi

, Amrun, havingfitz, chesskid3, I Am Innocent, AurorusVox

Not Voting (1) - Majiffy

Does your vote make sense?


Majiffy is pretty sure not-Aegis. vijay-Pine--not so much.


O hai.
VOTE: pidgey
Thanks pappums. Votes here please.

IaI potential partner trying to force a bus.

[Tierce]

If anyone feels the need to claim miller now would be a good time to do so.

Vote: pidgey

Anytime, folks.

[Tierce]

It's called a cop guilty~ I think IaI is scum and his case on you doesn't hit points of scumminess on you, but you go first and then he does for being a buddy trying to sacrifice a less experienced team member in a way that comes accross as forced.


Fair enough for you, Amrun, but from my perspective, it doesn't--I know how I play.

And I didn't realize you were touting me as not-Aegis. Makes slightly more sense that way, but still... Wish I was ever so lucky as to be in a large with two wagons on scum D1.

As for being obvtown, er, my entire play? The fact that I'm always painfully obvious as town to pretty much anyone but you? I can go on, but HF or IaI or someone will probably go OMG SELF META KILL IT KILL IT KILL IT or some nonsense, so whatever, I'll drop that.

[Tierce]

pappums's can also be typically unrecruitable traitor play (Katsuki did EXACTLY that in Tiger MetaTiger), but I'm not taking any chances. If you flip town, pappums goes next. 1 for 1 trades are bad for scum and good for town.

[Tierce]

IaI:

I don't believe pidgey's behavior is indicative of a scum mentality, and I think your case on him 1) misrepresents him 2) is outright wrong and 3) has no real confidence behind it. I'm voting him

because we have a cop guilty on him

.

I think your case in him is forced, and you are likely to be scum

with

pidgey--because you are picking at stuff that isn't scummy, but as a partner you'd be likely to notice more than usual because you know your buddy is scum. Sometimes you can spot scum partners when they notice things too soon, or when they pick at something that isn't scummy.

That is: pidgey is probably scum, but your case on him is still a very weak one and indicates you are probably scum with him.

Answer my questions, please.

[Tierce]

@havingfitz:

Majiffy is not Aegis because he's completely oblivious at to what 'Aegis faction' is likely to mean. vijay's reference of it sounded more forced and over-explanatory.

I wasn't saying you'd go grab my meta, I was just saying that I think you are the type of person who would jump on anyone who calls to their past experience for reference. I might be completely wrong here, it was more a frustrated remark than anything else.

And no, I don't think you are scum because you are voting me. At the moment, I don't think you are scum, period. You seem far too lost to have any decent grasp of what goes behind the scenes.

---

@MoI:

Oh okay so I came into the game defending my scumbuddy with turrets instead of taking the easy bus for towncred. Sure. It's a perfectly sensible play that matches my typical scum meta.

So it doesn’t match your scum meta so you must be Town?

That line was mostly griping; I get frustrated at the way Amrun tunnels on me (see Weather Mafia II, just finished, we were both town and she tunneled on me for four days). Note the irritated tone.

FL is ridiculously town for that Parama vote. I can explain this, would rather not.

Please do. It is pretty much required.

Actually I was wrong about this. I thought that the mods had posted about Parama requesting replacement

during

night, which would be an indication that FL had clearly not looked at the thread during night (since he didn't seem to realize Parama was being replaced when he voted Parama). This would mean FL is a VT who didn't bother to glance at the thread during the night phase. However, I just checked and I was wrong--the replacement hunt was announced at daybreak.

Why would taking out one scum/3rd party and one town be 'petty and stupid'? I think I'm missing something here. Do you think that chess's 'partner' is town? Why?

Why are you asking pointless questions Tierce? I haven’t said anything of the sort.

I was asking Chesskid to quantify what kind of scum he thought the other player with the kill power is.

It makes no sense for them to be Mafia (at least at this stage, we may get more information down the line). And suiciding just because he’s not being listened to if he doesn’t think said player is a Serial Killer is very Anti-Town (assuming in this discussion that Chess is Town).

Okay, got it. Please don't call my questions stupid; I was trying to figure out your train of thought.

IaI potential partner trying to force a bus.

Very much dislike the “Calling out bussing” pre-flip for several reasons.

Have you seen my reasoning for it? On why I think IaI's case is a bucket full of nothing? If pidgey is scum, this feels like a typical forced bus.

I don't believe pidgey's behavior is indicative of a scum mentality, and I think your case on him 1) misrepresents him 2) is outright wrong and 3) has no real confidence behind it. I'm voting him because we have a cop guilty on him.

Here’s what it boils down to for me Tierce. You come into this game with a reputation that suggests you are a good scum-hunter as Town.

Pidgey would be the second player (FakeGod being the first) that you have directly claimed that their play does not have scum motivations. Who would end up scum (assuming that Pappums isn't fake-claiming a result).

I’m having a hard time reconciling Tierce the Top Tier Town Scumhunter being completely unable to find scum motivation in scum play from two separate players (if Pidgey is scum).

...?
Burden of Proficiency, already? From

you

?

I am not a good scumhunter. I'm good at looking town

call me hitogoroshi~

and at, apparently, making scum nervous enough that they kill me off early, but I'm not a 'top tier town scumhunter' (where did you hear this, anyway?).
My lynch scum/wagon average is 33%, and I got lucky in Weather Mafia; prior to that game ending it was 23%. I'm flattered by the notion, but... yeah, not so much. This is not an excuse for being bad, it's a statistical fact. Currently I'm a little better than random at finding scum, and I want to improve that result. (Hint: if you vote pidgey it'll probably help my SWA result.)

I'm calling things as I see them. I don't think pidgey's behavior so far is scummy, so why would I say otherwise? I don't hide my train of thought. He apparently has a cop guilty on him, so I'm voting him. That's it.

[Tierce]

Tierce- So am I scum for a reason other tha pappum's "report" on me? You are defending me against IaI's case, yet you havent implied how am I scum for another reason besides papps. Also, what others asked, why is FL town for that?

I'm defending you against what I see is a bad case. pappums claimed an investigative result on you, and that is why I'm voting you. You can be scum and still be targeted by a scummy case.

I've already answered re: FL--I was wrong, it had to do with the timing of Parama requesting replacement--I thought there had been something like "Parama has requested replacement" in-thread

during the night phase

and FL had missed it (making him obv VT that wasn't reading the thread during night, and the precise role was why I didn't want to claim this because it would point scum toward juicier NKs), BUT I was wrong, the replacement request was posted with the first votecount of D2. So scratch that 'townbin forever' read.

[Tierce]

What the hell pappums that was NOT a bad reaction from pidgey.

Don't claim.

UNVOTE: pidgey
VOTE: I am Innocent


Will reply to stuff in the morning, it's 4 am.

PEdit: Well so much for not claiming.

[Tierce]

Haven't read; been sick. Post when possible.

[Tierce]

This game is truly awesome.

MoI: "You're too smart a player for that line of thought, you must be scum!"
FaerieLord: "You're not smart enough to spot cop guilty hints, you must be scum!"

Haven't read the rest.
I'm going back to bed with tea and cough drops. If you have something to bring up in scumhunting that does not involve questioning my IQ, feel free to deliver it by carrier pigeon. Priority will be given to queries accompanied by gifts of soup or honey.

Up next:
"You're appealing to your health, you must be scum!"

[Tierce]

Tierce I don't want to hear what you think about dead people I just want to hear who you think the scum are now and why. I supose you will say you honestly believed pappum's blatant copness. Who among thine fellow wagonteers was just playing along?

Acknowledging that I've read this, but I really can't be bothered to go through it now. I need to run VCA when I'm not curled up in bed with the netbook.

(To note, I was referring to FL creating a false dilemma with me, calling me stupid or scum. Re: MoI, I am just

bitter

because etc., moving on.)


Who are we calling Vi's N1 kill? Neither of those made sense--a modified SK like that would hit a strong PR attractor like MoI for maximum

DPS

effect (killing the PR-attractor, killing the PRs/scum that went for him N1). Vi wouldn't hit small fry like DeathNote or PeregrineV. I think Vi didn't kill N1.

[Tierce]

^ I like this post. She is going for reads from the one person that, if Tammy is town, knows to be confirmed town. I've done this with a predecessor once.

Not particularly, though. I've briefly played with Parama-town and Parama-scum, and skimmed through a few of his other games; he is known more for being a troll who likes to hammer L-1 players than actually thinking things through, at least in early game. I think it was pretty clear he wasn't bothering to read the game on D1, that the "I'm taking notes" thing was bullshit, and AV should know this already, since he has played with Parama before (Parama scum, AV town) and it's always rather evident that Parama doesn't care much about the gamestate.

[Tierce]

Gaaah I hate the way they organize the VCs. This is a pain to edit.

No love, mods. :/

[Tierce]

^ Bite me.

Meds are wonderful things wheeee.


vijay/Pine is probably not scum. Admittedly haven't been paying much attention, but I think Post 1098 denotes a kind of town laziness. It's too blatant to be scum, as scum he would want to show his work.



VCs being organized. In the meantime, lookie what I've found:

VOTE: havingfitz

Jumped on Parama/Tammy on D1, staying there for a long while as the wagon collapsed. Then passed to FakeGod as a very late vote. Jumped immediately off to pursue Bunnylover (lolwut, you're next AV), then me as I became a viable counterwagon to FakeGod.

He effectively avoided that FakeGod Aegis wagon like the plague without ever giving decent reasoning for it. Why did he jump on Bunnylover? For this...

To top this off…you yourself proceed to rely on other players (by sheeping your strongest town read and voting FakeGod0.

...when havingfitz had claimed to have voted FakeGod as part of sheeping. Why is this scummy fgrom Bunnylover? It's not.

Poor reason to jump on the FakeGod wagon, poor reason to jump off it and onto an extremely easy target, let's-avoid-this-scum-lynch-as-long-as-possible behavior.

[Tierce]

Spoiler: D1 vote counts

Tammy (4) Tierce, Amrun, Hiraki,

MagnaofIllusion

vijay2vasandani (1)

PeregrineV

DeathNote

(1) hiplop

PeregrineV

(1) vijay2vasandani

I Am Innocent

(1) pappums rat
Hiraki (1)

FakeGod

Not voting (14) brizingre1,

pidgey

,

DeathNote

, havingfitz, Majiffy, Tammy, dramonic,

chesskid3

,

I Am Innocent

,

Vi

, FaerieLord, AurorusVox, Bunnylover, Shadoweh

Tammy (6) Amrun, Hiraki,

MagnaofIllusion

, brizingre1, FaerieLord, AurorusVox

MagnaofIllusion

(2) havingfitz, Bunnylover
brizingre1 (2) hiplop, Tierce
vijay2vasandani (1)

PeregrineV

Majiffy (1)

pidgey

PeregrineV

(1) Majiffy

I Am Innocent

(1) pappums rat
Hiraki (1)

FakeGod

FaerieLord (1) vijay2vasandani
Bunnylover (1)

chesskid3

Not voting (6)

DeathNote

, Tammy, dramonic,

Vi

, Shadoweh,

I Am Innocent

Tammy (5)

MagnaofIllusion

, brizingre1, FaerieLord, AurorusVox, Tierce

MagnaofIllusion

(2) Bunnylover, dramonic
vijay2vasandani (2)

PeregrineV

, Hiraki
brizingre1 (2) hiplop,

Vi

I Am Innocent

(2) pappums rat,

chesskid3

Majiffy (1)

pidgey

PeregrineV

(1) Majiffy
Hiraki (1)

FakeGod

FakeGod

(1) Amrun
FaerieLord (1) vijay2vasandani
Bunnylover (1)

I Am Innocent

Not voting (4)

DeathNote

, Tammy, Shadoweh, havingfitz

Tammy (5)

MagnaofIllusion

, brizingre1, FaerieLord, AurorusVox, Tierce

MagnaofIllusion

(2) Bunnylover, dramonic
vijay2vasandani (2)

PeregrineV

, Hiraki
brizingre1 (2) hiplop,

Vi

DeathNote

(2) pappums rat, Shadoweh
Shadoweh (2) Tammy,

FakeGod

havingfitz (1)

DeathNote

Majiffy (1)

pidgey

PeregrineV

(1) Majiffy

I Am Innocent

(1)

chesskid3

FakeGod

(1) Amrun
FaerieLord (1) vijay2vasandani
Bunnylover (1)

I Am Innocent

Not voting (1) havingfitz

Tammy (4)

MagnaofIllusion

, brizingre1, FaerieLord, AurorusVox

MagnaofIllusion

(2) Bunnylover, dramonic
brizingre1 (2) hiplop,

Vi

DeathNote

(2) pappums rat, Shadoweh
Shadoweh (2)

FakeGod

,

PeregrineV

vijay2vasandani (1) Hiraki

pidgey

(1) Tammy
havingfitz (1)

DeathNote

Majiffy (1)

pidgey

I Am Innocent

(1)

chesskid3

FakeGod

(1) Amrun
FaerieLord (1) vijay2vasandani
Tierce (1) Majiffy
Bunnylover (1)

I Am Innocent

Not voting (2) havingfitz, Tierce

Tammy (6)

MagnaofIllusion

, brizingre1, FaerieLord, AurorusVox, havingfitz,

chesskid3

Shadoweh (4)

FakeGod

,

PeregrineV

, Tammy,

pidgey

MagnaofIllusion

(2) Bunnylover, dramonic
brizingre1 (2) hiplop,

Vi

vijay2vasandani (1) Hiraki

DeathNote

(1) Shadoweh
havingfitz (1)

DeathNote

Vi

(1) pappums rat

FakeGod

(1) Amrun
FaerieLord (1) vijay2vasandani
Tierce (1) Majiffy
Bunnylover (1)

I Am Innocent

Not voting (1) Tierce

Tammy (6)

MagnaofIllusion

, brizingre1, FaerieLord, AurorusVox, havingfitz,

chesskid3

Shadoweh (4)

FakeGod

,

PeregrineV

, Tammy,

pidgey

MagnaofIllusion

(2) Bunnylover, dramonic
brizingre1 (2) hiplop,

Vi

vijay2vasandani (1) Hiraki

DeathNote

(1) Shadoweh
havingfitz (1)

DeathNote

Vi

(1) pappums rat

FakeGod

(1) Amrun
FaerieLord (1) vijay2vasandani
Tierce (1) Majiffy
Bunnylover (1)

I Am Innocent

Not voting (1) Tierce

Tammy (5)

MagnaofIllusion

, brizingre1, AurorusVox, havingfitz,

chesskid3

Shadoweh (4)

FakeGod

,

PeregrineV

, Tammy,

pidgey

FakeGod

(3) Amrun,

Vi

, FaerieLord

MagnaofIllusion

(2) Bunnylover, dramonic
vijay2vasandani (1) Hiraki
brizingre1 (1) hiplop

DeathNote

(1) Shadoweh
havingfitz (1)

DeathNote

Vi

(1) pappums rat
FaerieLord (1) vijay2vasandani
Tierce (1) Majiffy
Bunnylover (1)

I Am Innocent

Not voting (1) Tierce

Tammy (4)

MagnaofIllusion

, brizingre1, AurorusVox, havingfitz

FakeGod

(4) Amrun,

Vi

, FaerieLord, pappums rat
Shadoweh (3)

PeregrineV

, Tammy,

pidgey

MagnaofIllusion

(2) Bunnylover, dramonic
vijay2vasandani (1) Hiraki
brizingre1 (1) hiplop

DeathNote

(1) Shadoweh
havingfitz (1)

DeathNote

FaerieLord (1) vijay2vasandani
Amrun (1)

FakeGod

Tierce (1) Majiffy
Bunnylover (1)

I Am Innocent

Not voting (2) Tierce,

chesskid3

Tammy (5)

MagnaofIllusion

, brizingre1, AurorusVox, havingfitz,

chesskid3

FakeGod

(5) Amrun,

Vi

, FaerieLord, pappums rat, vijay2vasandani
Shadoweh (3)

PeregrineV

, Tammy,

pidgey

MagnaofIllusion

(2) Bunnylover, dramonic
vijay2vasandani (1) Hiraki
brizingre1 (1) hiplop

DeathNote

(1) Shadoweh
havingfitz (1)

DeathNote

Amrun (1)

FakeGod

Tierce (1) Majiffy
Bunnylover (1)

I Am Innocent

Not voting (1) Tierce

FakeGod

(5) Amrun, FaerieLord, pappums rat, vijay2vasandani, brizingre1
brizingre1 (3)

Vi

,

chesskid3

,

pidgey

Tammy (3)

MagnaofIllusion

, AurorusVox, havingfitz

MagnaofIllusion

(2) Bunnylover, dramonic
Shadoweh (2)

PeregrineV

, Tammy
vijay2vasandani (1) Hiraki

pidgey

(1) hiplop

DeathNote

(1) Shadoweh
havingfitz (1)

DeathNote

Amrun (1)

FakeGod

Tierce (1) Majiffy
Bunnylover (1)

I Am Innocent

Not voting (1) Tierce

FakeGod

(7) Amrun, FaerieLord, pappums rat, vijay2vasandani, brizingre1,

DeathNote

,

I Am Innocent

brizingre1 (3)

Vi

,

chesskid3

,

pidgey

Tammy (3)

MagnaofIllusion

, AurorusVox, havingfitz

MagnaofIllusion

(2) Bunnylover, dramonic
Shadoweh (2)

PeregrineV

, Tammy
vijay2vasandani (1) Hiraki

pidgey

(1) hiplop

DeathNote

(1) Shadoweh
Amrun (1)

FakeGod

Tierce (1) Majiffy

Not voting (1) Tierce

FakeGod

(8) Amrun, FaerieLord, pappums rat, vijay2vasandani, brizingre1,

DeathNote

,

I Am Innocent

,

MagnaofIllusion

brizingre1 (4)

Vi

,

chesskid3

,

pidgey

, Hiraki
Tammy (2) AurorusVox, havingfitz
Amrun (2)

FakeGod

, Bunnylover
Shadoweh (2)

PeregrineV

, Tammy

pidgey

(1) hiplop

DeathNote

(1) Shadoweh
Majiffy (1) dramonic
Tierce (1) Majiffy

Not voting (1) Tierce

FakeGod

(9) FaerieLord, pappums rat, vijay2vasandani, brizingre1,

DeathNote

,

I Am Innocent

,

MagnaofIllusion

, havingfitz, Bunnylover
Tierce (4) Majiffy, hiplop,

Vi

, Amrun
brizingre1 (3)

chesskid3

,

pidgey

, Hiraki
Majiffy (2) dramonic,

PeregrineV

DeathNote

(1) Shadoweh
Tammy (1) AurorusVox

I Am Innocent

(1) Tierce
Amrun (1)

FakeGod

Shadoweh (1) Tammy

FakeGod

(8) FaerieLord, pappums rat, vijay2vasandani, brizingre1,

DeathNote

,

I Am Innocent

,

MagnaofIllusion

, Bunnylover
brizingre1 (3)

chesskid3

,

pidgey

, Hiraki
Tierce (3) hiplop,

Vi

, Amrun
Majiffy (2) dramonic,

PeregrineV

DeathNote

(1) Shadoweh
Tammy (1) AurorusVox

I Am Innocent

(1) Tierce
Amrun (1)

FakeGod

Bunnylover (1) havingfitz
Shadoweh (1) Tammy

Not voting (1) Majiffy

FakeGod

(8) FaerieLord, pappums rat, vijay2vasandani, brizingre1,

DeathNote

,

I Am Innocent

, Bunnylover, dramonic
Tierce (4) hiplop,

Vi

, Amrun,

MagnaofIllusion

brizingre1 (3)

chesskid3

,

pidgey

, Hiraki
Bunnylover (2) havingfitz,

PeregrineV

vijay2vasandani (1) Tierce

DeathNote

(1) Shadoweh
Tammy (1) AurorusVox
Amrun (1)

FakeGod

Shadoweh (1) Tammy

Not voting (1) Majiffy

FakeGod

(8) FaerieLord, pappums rat, vijay2vasandani, brizingre1,

DeathNote

,

I Am Innocent

, Bunnylover, dramonic
Tierce (5) hiplop,

Vi

, Amrun,

MagnaofIllusion

, havingfitz
vijay2vasandani (2) Tierce, Hiraki
brizingre1 (2)

chesskid3

,

pidgey

DeathNote

(1) Shadoweh
Tammy (1) AurorusVox
Amrun (1)

FakeGod

Bunnylover (1)

PeregrineV

Shadoweh (1) Tammy

Not voting (1) Majiffy

FakeGod

(8) FaerieLord, pappums rat, vijay2vasandani, brizingre1,

DeathNote

,

I Am Innocent

, Bunnylover, dramonic
Tierce (6) hiplop,

Vi

, Amrun,

MagnaofIllusion

, havingfitz,

chesskid3

vijay2vasandani (2) Tierce, Hiraki
brizingre1 (2)

pidgey

DeathNote

(1) Shadoweh
Tammy (1) AurorusVox
Amrun (1)

FakeGod

Bunnylover (1)

PeregrineV

Shadoweh (1) Tammy

Not voting (1) Majiffy

FakeGod

(7) FaerieLord, pappums rat, vijay2vasandani, brizingre1,

DeathNote

, Bunnylover, dramonic
Tierce (7) hiplop,

Vi

, Amrun,

MagnaofIllusion

, havingfitz,

chesskid3

,

I Am Innocent

vijay2vasandani (3) Tierce, Hiraki,

FakeGod

brizingre1 (2)

pidgey

, Shadoweh
Tammy (1) AurorusVox
Bunnylover (1)

PeregrineV

Shadoweh (1) Tammy

Not voting (1) Majiffy

FakeGod

(8) FaerieLord, pappums rat, vijay2vasandani, brizingre1,

DeathNote

, Bunnylover, dramonic,

PeregrineV

Tierce (7) hiplop,

Vi

, Amrun,

MagnaofIllusion

, havingfitz,

chesskid3

,

I Am Innocent

vijay2vasandani (3) Tierce, Hiraki,

FakeGod

brizingre1 (2)

pidgey

, Shadoweh
Tammy (1) AurorusVox
Shadoweh (1) Tammy

Not voting (1) Majiffy

FakeGod

(9) FaerieLord, pappums rat, vijay2vasandani, brizingre1,

DeathNote

, Bunnylover, dramonic,

PeregrineV

, Shadoweh
Tierce (8) hiplop,

Vi

, Amrun,

MagnaofIllusion

, havingfitz,

chesskid3

,

I Am Innocent

, AurorusVox
vijay2vasandani (3) Tierce, Hiraki,

FakeGod

brizingre1 (1)

pidgey

Shadoweh (1) Tammy

Not voting (1) Majiffy

FakeGod

(12) [LYNCH]

FaerieLord, pappums rat, vijay2vasandani, brizingre1,

DeathNote

, Bunnylover, dramonic,

PeregrineV

, Shadoweh, Tammy,

MagnaofIllusion

,

pidgey

Tierce (7) hiplop,

Vi

, Amrun, havingfitz,

chesskid3

,

I Am Innocent

, AurorusVox
vijay2vasandani (3) Tierce, Hiraki,

FakeGod

Not voting (1) Majiffy

Spoiler: D2 vote counts

Amrun (2) AurorusVox, dramonic
Tierce (2) Amrun, hiplop

pidgey

(1)

I Am Innocent

I Am Innocent

(1)

chesskid3

Hiraki (1) Hiraki

Not voting (12) Majiffy, Tierce, FaerieLord, pappums rat, vijay2vasandani, brizingre1, Bunnylover, Shadoweh, Tammy,

MagnaofIllusion

,

pidgey

, havingfitz

I Am Innocent

(2)

chesskid3

,

pidgey

Amrun (2) AurorusVox, dramonic
Tierce (2) Amrun, hiplop

pidgey

(1)

I Am Innocent

Hiraki (1) Hiraki

Not voting (11) Majiffy, Tierce, FaerieLord, pappums rat, vijay2vasandani, brizingre1, Bunnylover, Shadoweh, Tammy,

MagnaofIllusion

, havingfitz

pidgey

(4)

I Am Innocent

, pappums rat, Tierce, Bunnylover
Tierce (3) Amrun, hiplop, havingfitz

I Am Innocent

(2)

chesskid3

,

pidgey

Amrun (2) AurorusVox, dramonic
vijay2vasandani (1) Hiraki
Tammy (1) FaerieLord

Not voting (6) Majiffy, vijay2vasandani, brizingre1, Shadoweh, Tammy,

MagnaofIllusion

pidgey

(7)

I Am Innocent

, pappums rat, Tierce, Bunnylover, FaerieLord, AurorusVox, hiplop

I Am Innocent

(2)

chesskid3

,

pidgey

Tierce (2) Amrun, havingfitz
vijay2vasandani (1) Hiraki
FaerieLord (1) vijay2vasandani
Amrun (1) dramonic

Not voting (5) Majiffy, brizingre1, Shadoweh, Tammy,

MagnaofIllusion

pidgey

(9)

I Am Innocent

, pappums rat, Tierce, Bunnylover, FaerieLord, AurorusVox, hiplop, dramonic,

chesskid3

Tierce (2) Amrun, havingfitz
vijay2vasandani (1) Hiraki

I Am Innocent

(1)

pidgey

Hiraki (1)

MagnaofIllusion

FaerieLord (1) vijay2vasandani

pidgey

(10) [LYNCH]

I Am Innocent

, pappums rat, Tierce, Bunnylover, Amrun, FaerieLord, AurorusVox, hiplop, dramonic,

chesskid3

vijay2vasandani (1) Hiraki

I Am Innocent

(1)

pidgey

Hiraki (1)

MagnaofIllusion

FaerieLord (1) vijay2vasandani
Tierce (1) havingfitz

Not voting (4) Majiffy, brizingre1, Shadoweh, Tammy

PEdit: I don't have a scumread on you and that worries me. Are you town, Amrun?

[Tierce]

Bad memories.

I need to go over all that voices in head stuff.

[Tierce]

I like the havingfitz vote from Tierce.

VOTE: fitz

His activity here reminds me very much of his activity as scum in Zach's recent large normal, where I wrecked face.

Do you think he's likely to be Aegis? I had a slight scum read on him because of the same thing with regards to his activity here being similar to Zach's game, but his early vote and suspicion on FakeGod has me second guessing myself.

"Early vote and suspicion on FakeGod"? Am I missing something? Check the votecounts, havingfitz's vote was the 8th on FakeGod and he immediately jumped ship to Bunnylover.

I need to check Zach's game, and probably a few of havingfitz's town games.


Amrun: Why Peregrine and not me?

[Tierce]

I'm not asking about suspicions. And pops wasn't the first to remark about scumteam numbers; Vi led him to it. By that same measure, why not MoI, who was pushing me to consider two scumteams D1, before a single flip?

Subtlety is not my strongest point at 3 am.

[Tierce]

Fair enough. This is still not my main point, though--why Peregrine instead of

me

, when you definitely came into D2 with a scumread on me?

[Tierce]

Alright, order of suspicion. I guess that makes sense. I don't get that utterly blatant D2 opening, though. If I'm bad at subtlety, that was an whole loaf of bread to the face.


Tammy: Post 1143--my havingfitz's vote based on VCs and behavior, Post 1146--the VCs themselves, in a somewhat more readable form than our mods provide us with. >.>

[Tierce]

Hey Hiraki, you are scum aren’t you?

Slight scum point for Hiraki - nk analysis? Also for Tierce.

I don't get this mention. Are you asking me to do NK analysis? Will get on it later today, have stuff to do atm.

[Tierce]

I'm not too surprised that MoI is dead (though I want to go through that), but I want to check out why chesskid died. He was obvious town, yes, but--was that because he was going after IaI? But if he was going to do so, it was already too late for Aegis, so why make the kill? Why not cut off the head instead of a voice? Was he killed by someone else? Another scumteam/SK (another third party?) is viable due to the number of kills; why would they go after chesskid?

Needs prodding.

[Tierce]

See my attempted unvote after chesskid hammered yesterday.
I think pappums was gambiting badly, but it reads like a town gambit. The situation isn't actually comparable to cheekytraitor Kats in MetaTiger.

[Tierce]

Meds are wonderful things wheeee.

I think the meds are clouding your judgement.

Tell me, if I'm scum, how are

meds

clouding my judgment? If I'm scum and you're town, I'm deliberately pushing a mislynch. There is no 'clouding'. You're showing you believe I'm town. (Fake-edit: This shows a constant trend throughout your post of trying to push me down. If you are town, sir, kindly go screw yourself with that attitude. I'm doing my best and I don't give a damn if it's not enough for you.)

vijay/Pine is probably not scum. Admittedly haven't been paying much attention,but I think Post 1098 denotes a kind of town laziness. It's too blatant to be scum,as scum he would want to show his work.

The all-redeeming town laziness tell. Impressive.

So you push for a Pine/vijay slot lynch most of D1,you have no need to address the Pine/vijay slot on D2 because of Pappum's assinine fakeclaim and your free pass to lynch Pidgey,and then because of this:

"Let's just pile more votes on FL. I don't remember the reason,but I think FL is from a different faction from FG and IaI."

you come to the determination the the Pine/vijay slot is town? DESPITE the fact one of your criticisms of the slot was the fact it was blatantly not trying. WTF?

Are you calling vijay/Pine scum? If not, what's your problem with my read on that slot? I hold different standards for posting from Pine and from viajy2vasandani. I know both their styles. I don't read people, I read slots. Scum vijay tries to show his work. Town Pine tries to show his work.

That

is the difference. I don't think scum vijay would replace into a lazy scum slot and continue being lazy when people were going after the slot for that. In fact, he never really acknowledged the issues with Pine-slot. This shows he doesn't really care about Pine's posts. He's not giving a damn about what his predecessor did, and that coming from

vijay

is usually town behavior.

It should also be noted that you were over the top in your defense of Fakegod D1 in part because the things people found him suspicious for had

"no scum motivation"

. Sounds similar to

"too blatant to be scum."

I would say your ability to assess what is too blatant to be scum or town is inadequate based on your FG read,your current read on me,and your flip flip on the Pine/vijay slot.

You're again calling me incapable of scumhunting, and yet act like I'm trying to find scum anyway. I'm scumhunting because I'm town. I don't care what you think of my abilities. You are trying to dismiss my case on you because I was wrong on someone. That's scummy, because you are trying to cause others to not trust my ability to find scum.

VCs being organized.

IIoA. You've posted a wall of VC's twice now in this game and not given any analysis (iirc). How helpful of you. What a blatantly townie thing to do.

Buzzword. I post lists of VCs because that helps

me

read wagons. Go check my games. If you don't want to look at the post, don't. I often do clerk work regardless of alignment. My title and my Scummy come from the work I did in recovering games in the March crash. That's what I do and it's alignment-null, so don't paint it like I was trying for a protown appearance with it. I don't have to try for it, because I'm town.

In the meantime,lookie what I've found: VOTE: havingfitz Jumped on Parama/Tammy on D1,staying there for a long while as the wagon collapsed. Then passed to FakeGod as a very late vote. Jumped immediately off to pursue Bunnylover (lolwut,you're next AV),then me as I became a viable counterwagon to FakeGod.

How did I

"Jump on Parama/Tammy?"

Your use of "jump" seems to infer my vote was bad thing. If by jump you mean placed a vote after due consideration,then sure...I jumped. I put a vote on them because I suspected Parama and I gave my rationale for the vote when I made it. I think a far better (negative) example of

"jumping on Parama/Tammy on D1"

was illustrated here by none other than Tierce. And your sole reason for the vote was because he already had a wagon at the time. No suspicions provided...simply that he already had a wagon going that had the possibility of flipping before the deadline. Ie you were willing to see it through to the end.

Up to here, your post was all decrying my abilities. 'Don't follow that person, she can't find scum!' If you're town, screw you. Demoralizing people is blatantly antitown and kills mid-late games. The town is in an awesome position, it's D3 and we have two dead scum. Yes, I was wrong in FakeGod. You are wrong with me. Am I going 'harhar he's bad at this!' at you? No. Stop that.

(What's your problem with spaces after punctuation? At least leave my quotes intact, they didn't do anything to you. O_o)

You're deflecting. You're justifying your actions by saying "look, that person did worse!" No, my vote was definitely not worse than yours. I did not want FakeGod's lynch, I've been saying this since I replaced in, I was trying to find a viable wagon among the people I found scummier than him. Having a long, elaborate explanation for your votes does not make one town. Scum are not more likely to justify their votes with "gut! >:["

So... I wanted Parama-not-FakeGod lynched D1, and you're comparing this to your opportunistic jump on the slot earlier? No. They are different situations.

He effectively avoided that FakeGod Aegis wagon like the plague without ever giving decent reasoning for it. Why did he jump on Bunnylover?For this...

To top this off…you yourself proceed to rely on other players (by sheeping your strongest town read and voting FakeGod0.

...when havingfitz had claimed to have voted FakeGod as part of sheeping. Why is this scummy fgrom Bunnylover?It's not.

This is a complete misrepresentation of my D1 voting. At least you have the names right.

First off...I did suspect Fakegod for much of the day and gave my reasoning for suspecting him when I voted him in my FOS along with points others had brought up (the baaaaaaa comment). Which BTW...the baaaaaaaaa comment was provided iirc in response to Bunny's post 349 comment towards me. How did I avoid FakeGods wagon like the plague? That is a blatant lie. Anyone looking at your ISO would see that you not only avoided FakeGod's wagon like the plague...you defended him on more than one occasion. Additionally....despite spending a lot of your time D1 discussing your suspicions towards IAI on D1 and making a much better case on him than Pine/vijay...you manage to display a cursory presence on his wagon D1 and make very little comment towards him D2 (thanks to being DERAILED BYTHE PIDGEY FAKEGUILTYFROM PAPPUMS!!!!).

Yes, you did avoid that wagon. You immediately moved to another wagon when you had the opportunity, and from Bunnylover (terrible reasons for a vote there) passed on to me, a very clearly viable counterwagon to FakeGod. You are once more deflecting--my behavior regarding FakeGod was defense. Yes, I defended scum D1. What's your problem with it? Would it make sense for me to defend my scumbuddy so fiercely, knowing that when he flipped scum I would be next? No. I believed him to be town. I defend my townreads. My behavior was not comparable to yours. You were acting like FakeGod was scummy and yet avoiding pushing that wagon. That is scumbuddy behavior.

You do however have a very cordial Q&a with IAI in post 903 AND I find it difficult to believe that someone like you who has such a

decent grasp of what goes on behind the scenes

and is so handy with the VCs would not have realized Pidgey had in fact been lynched. I find your thoughtful move from Pidgey to IAI after Pidgey had in fact already been lynched to be more likely than not...some grandstanding on your behalf to earn town points. Ie contrived.

This is absurd.

I did not realize the number of votes. This case is absolutely ridiculous. "So handy with the VCs"? Yes, that takes a lot of thoughtfulness, that BBcode. What is it now? Stupid town? Smart scum? Make up your mind. I'm definitely not stupid, but I can miss things. I've just finished a game

as scum

in which I legitimately missed a vote from someone and my later vote on the same person made it look like a quickhammer. I was rather hilariously lynched for the wrong reasons.
You're being snippy and making false assumptions.

Poor reason to jump on the FakeGod wagon,poor reason to jump off it and onto an extremely easy target,let's-avoid-this-scum-lynch-as-long-as-possible behavior.

This is such a hypocritical comment coming from you it makes my head spin that you have the balls to say it. Your entry into this game was full of votes given without any rationale (let alone poor rational...of which none of my votes possess). You avoided any kind of lynch commitment with your consistent wagon start-ups (ie you were alone) of hiplop,IAI (whose wagon you had the presence of mind to

JUMP!

back off of) and Pine/vijay (whose wagon Fakegod joined you on very shortly thereafter). Not to mention your terrible first vote on Parama.

More decrying of my abilities.

'Avoided any kind of lynch commitment'? I defended scum. Everyone is aware of this. I wanted to push a wagon that I believed was scum, and I kept trying to push it throughout D1. How on earth is this avoiding commitment?

Imagine you are a VT. You come into a game and think that the main D1 wagon is on town. This person does not post often, so you can't even expect him to claim before you do, you don't know if he's a PR or not. Did you want me to show 'lynch commitment' by wagoning FakeGod with all the others? No. I'll push my scumreads and I won't contribute to the wagons of my townreads,

because they are my townreads

and I'm a VT. I'm expendable and when I flip all my motivations will be confirmed to come from town. This is not rocket surgery.

Additional comments...my suspicions towards Tierce are well documented,in post 574 and post 795. Her current vote on me is poorly supported and amounts to little more than OMGUS.

You state your opinions are all 'documented' while I show poor reasoning or don't explain my votes. Once more, decrying my abilities and elevating yourself. Look at Tierce, she's either scum or town that can't be trusted to find scum. And OMGUS? Buzzword, and definitely not. I don't give a damn who you're voting, because I think you are scum. My vote has very little to do with your vote on me besides the fact that it's opportunistic. It has a lot more to do with the rest of your behavior.

@Tierce....what changed your late D2 opinion of me where you

"did not think I was scum,period?"

to your current early D3 stance/vote on me?

(Oh god pet peeve of passive-aggressive smiley. This is why I can't play with mastin.)
The flips and analysis of your behavior are what changed my mind on you. I've explained why I'm voting you.

And in the name of WIFOM....I find it ironic that 4 of the 8 people who were on the Tierce D1 wagon (when it was at it's peak) have been eliminated.

See below for your behavior with this pseudo-analysis of my wagon.

And finally...two things I can agree with you on are in your comment to MOI where you describe yourself as

"I am not a good scumhunter. I am good at looking town."

Though the second part is starting to wane.

And you end this with more decrying of my abilities. When did you ever wagon FakeGod with intent to lynch? When did you wagon IaI? You didn't, so

shut it

. I was pissed off at MoI because he should know that Burden of Proficiency is ridiculous and he had a wrong impression of my skill. What you are doing is very different, and scummy to boot. This does not look like you think I'm scum at all, this looks like you are pushing me for having 'bad reads'. That logic doesn't follow.

HF, Tierce is scum with FL. Can we lynch FL first and then Tierce?

I don't think FL is scum.

Tierce is a much better option. Her D1 wagon far exceeds FL's current wagon both in rationale provided and in abilities of those voting.

So... you ignore all the flips and events that have occurred since then and revert to a D1 wagon that was counterwagon to scum and has tried to get other scum lynched.
'The people voting Tierce are good scumhunters! Vote Tierce!' Yeah, not so much. That does not make me scum, that makes the town people who were wagoning me

wrong

. You are remarking that four of the eight people who were voting me were dead, and... that's all you do with the wagon. You are not looking at relationships with the flips, you are not looking at wagon development, you are ignoring the major fact that my wagon grew in parallel to a scum wagon and scum was voting me. Yeah, sure, I was trying to get Town Pine lynched with my scumbuddy instead of bussing rather weak scum (FG) for wagon towncred. Totally sensible option. Tell me, if I'm so smart and have such a good grasp on things, why did scum Tierce play D1 the way she did? Look at the situation. You have FakeGod not voting me. Me not voting FakeGod and idicating a scumread on IaI. Both of us are voting Pine. IaI can go both ways with lynching us and ends up voting me. Yeah, scum Tierce would definitely make sure D1 was FUBAR'd for her whole team when anyone bothered to look back at the interactions.

Have some respect for my intellect, at least. And if you are town, stop being deliberately cruel. That's not scumhunting, that's trying to push people down, and you're doing it to both me and pappums.

Spoiler: D1 vote counts

Tammy (4) Tierce, Amrun, Hiraki,

MagnaofIllusion

vijay2vasandani (1)

PeregrineV

DeathNote

(1) hiplop

PeregrineV

(1) vijay2vasandani

I Am Innocent

(1) pappums rat
Hiraki (1)

FakeGod

Not voting (14) brizingre1,

pidgey

,

DeathNote

, havingfitz, Majiffy, Tammy, dramonic,

chesskid3

,

I Am Innocent

,

Vi

, FaerieLord, AurorusVox, Bunnylover, Shadoweh

Tammy (6) Amrun, Hiraki,

MagnaofIllusion

, brizingre1, FaerieLord, AurorusVox

MagnaofIllusion

(2) havingfitz, Bunnylover
brizingre1 (2) hiplop, Tierce
vijay2vasandani (1)

PeregrineV

Majiffy (1)

pidgey

PeregrineV

(1) Majiffy

I Am Innocent

(1) pappums rat
Hiraki (1)

FakeGod

FaerieLord (1) vijay2vasandani
Bunnylover (1)

chesskid3

Not voting (6)

DeathNote

, Tammy, dramonic,

Vi

, Shadoweh,

I Am Innocent

Tammy (5)

MagnaofIllusion

, brizingre1, FaerieLord, AurorusVox, Tierce

MagnaofIllusion

(2) Bunnylover, dramonic
vijay2vasandani (2)

PeregrineV

, Hiraki
brizingre1 (2) hiplop,

Vi

I Am Innocent

(2) pappums rat,

chesskid3

Majiffy (1)

pidgey

PeregrineV

(1) Majiffy
Hiraki (1)

FakeGod

FakeGod

(1) Amrun
FaerieLord (1) vijay2vasandani
Bunnylover (1)

I Am Innocent

Not voting (4)

DeathNote

, Tammy, Shadoweh, havingfitz

Tammy (5)

MagnaofIllusion

, brizingre1, FaerieLord, AurorusVox, Tierce

MagnaofIllusion

(2) Bunnylover, dramonic
vijay2vasandani (2)

PeregrineV

, Hiraki
brizingre1 (2) hiplop,

Vi

DeathNote

(2) pappums rat, Shadoweh
Shadoweh (2) Tammy,

FakeGod

havingfitz (1)

DeathNote

Majiffy (1)

pidgey

PeregrineV

(1) Majiffy

I Am Innocent

(1)

chesskid3

FakeGod

(1) Amrun
FaerieLord (1) vijay2vasandani
Bunnylover (1)

I Am Innocent

Not voting (1) havingfitz

Tammy (4)

MagnaofIllusion

, brizingre1, FaerieLord, AurorusVox

MagnaofIllusion

(2) Bunnylover, dramonic
brizingre1 (2) hiplop,

Vi

DeathNote

(2) pappums rat, Shadoweh
Shadoweh (2)

FakeGod

,

PeregrineV

vijay2vasandani (1) Hiraki

pidgey

(1) Tammy
havingfitz (1)

DeathNote

Majiffy (1)

pidgey

I Am Innocent

(1)

chesskid3

FakeGod

(1) Amrun
FaerieLord (1) vijay2vasandani
Tierce (1) Majiffy
Bunnylover (1)

I Am Innocent

Not voting (2) havingfitz, Tierce

Tammy (6)

MagnaofIllusion

, brizingre1, FaerieLord, AurorusVox, havingfitz,

chesskid3

Shadoweh (4)

FakeGod

,

PeregrineV

, Tammy,

pidgey

MagnaofIllusion

(2) Bunnylover, dramonic
brizingre1 (2) hiplop,

Vi

vijay2vasandani (1) Hiraki

DeathNote

(1) Shadoweh
havingfitz (1)

DeathNote

Vi

(1) pappums rat

FakeGod

(1) Amrun
FaerieLord (1) vijay2vasandani
Tierce (1) Majiffy
Bunnylover (1)

I Am Innocent

Not voting (1) Tierce

Tammy (6)

MagnaofIllusion

, brizingre1, FaerieLord, AurorusVox, havingfitz,

chesskid3

Shadoweh (4)

FakeGod

,

PeregrineV

, Tammy,

pidgey

MagnaofIllusion

(2) Bunnylover, dramonic
brizingre1 (2) hiplop,

Vi

vijay2vasandani (1) Hiraki

DeathNote

(1) Shadoweh
havingfitz (1)

DeathNote

Vi

(1) pappums rat

FakeGod

(1) Amrun
FaerieLord (1) vijay2vasandani
Tierce (1) Majiffy
Bunnylover (1)

I Am Innocent

Not voting (1) Tierce

Tammy (5)

MagnaofIllusion

, brizingre1, AurorusVox, havingfitz,

chesskid3

Shadoweh (4)

FakeGod

,

PeregrineV

, Tammy,

pidgey

FakeGod

(3) Amrun,

Vi

, FaerieLord

MagnaofIllusion

(2) Bunnylover, dramonic
vijay2vasandani (1) Hiraki
brizingre1 (1) hiplop

DeathNote

(1) Shadoweh
havingfitz (1)

DeathNote

Vi

(1) pappums rat
FaerieLord (1) vijay2vasandani
Tierce (1) Majiffy
Bunnylover (1)

I Am Innocent

Not voting (1) Tierce

Tammy (4)

MagnaofIllusion

, brizingre1, AurorusVox, havingfitz

FakeGod

(4) Amrun,

Vi

, FaerieLord, pappums rat
Shadoweh (3)

PeregrineV

, Tammy,

pidgey

MagnaofIllusion

(2) Bunnylover, dramonic
vijay2vasandani (1) Hiraki
brizingre1 (1) hiplop

DeathNote

(1) Shadoweh
havingfitz (1)

DeathNote

FaerieLord (1) vijay2vasandani
Amrun (1)

FakeGod

Tierce (1) Majiffy
Bunnylover (1)

I Am Innocent

Not voting (2) Tierce,

chesskid3

Tammy (5)

MagnaofIllusion

, brizingre1, AurorusVox, havingfitz,

chesskid3

FakeGod

(5) Amrun,

Vi

, FaerieLord, pappums rat, vijay2vasandani
Shadoweh (3)

PeregrineV

, Tammy,

pidgey

MagnaofIllusion

(2) Bunnylover, dramonic
vijay2vasandani (1) Hiraki
brizingre1 (1) hiplop

DeathNote

(1) Shadoweh
havingfitz (1)

DeathNote

Amrun (1)

FakeGod

Tierce (1) Majiffy
Bunnylover (1)

I Am Innocent

Not voting (1) Tierce

FakeGod

(5) Amrun, FaerieLord, pappums rat, vijay2vasandani, brizingre1
brizingre1 (3)

Vi

,

chesskid3

,

pidgey

Tammy (3)

MagnaofIllusion

, AurorusVox, havingfitz

MagnaofIllusion

(2) Bunnylover, dramonic
Shadoweh (2)

PeregrineV

, Tammy
vijay2vasandani (1) Hiraki

pidgey

(1) hiplop

DeathNote

(1) Shadoweh
havingfitz (1)

DeathNote

Amrun (1)

FakeGod

Tierce (1) Majiffy
Bunnylover (1)

I Am Innocent

Not voting (1) Tierce

FakeGod

(7) Amrun, FaerieLord, pappums rat, vijay2vasandani, brizingre1,

DeathNote

,

I Am Innocent

brizingre1 (3)

Vi

,

chesskid3

,

pidgey

Tammy (3)

MagnaofIllusion

, AurorusVox, havingfitz

MagnaofIllusion

(2) Bunnylover, dramonic
Shadoweh (2)

PeregrineV

, Tammy
vijay2vasandani (1) Hiraki

pidgey

(1) hiplop

DeathNote

(1) Shadoweh
Amrun (1)

FakeGod

Tierce (1) Majiffy

Not voting (1) Tierce

FakeGod

(8) Amrun, FaerieLord, pappums rat, vijay2vasandani, brizingre1,

DeathNote

,

I Am Innocent

,

MagnaofIllusion

brizingre1 (4)

Vi

,

chesskid3

,

pidgey

, Hiraki
Tammy (2) AurorusVox, havingfitz
Amrun (2)

FakeGod

, Bunnylover
Shadoweh (2)

PeregrineV

, Tammy

pidgey

(1) hiplop

DeathNote

(1) Shadoweh
Majiffy (1) dramonic
Tierce (1) Majiffy

Not voting (1) Tierce

FakeGod

(9) FaerieLord, pappums rat, vijay2vasandani, brizingre1,

DeathNote

,

I Am Innocent

,

MagnaofIllusion

, havingfitz, Bunnylover
Tierce (4) Majiffy, hiplop,

Vi

, Amrun
brizingre1 (3)

chesskid3

,

pidgey

, Hiraki
Majiffy (2) dramonic,

PeregrineV

DeathNote

(1) Shadoweh
Tammy (1) AurorusVox

I Am Innocent

(1) Tierce
Amrun (1)

FakeGod

Shadoweh (1) Tammy

FakeGod

(8) FaerieLord, pappums rat, vijay2vasandani, brizingre1,

DeathNote

,

I Am Innocent

,

MagnaofIllusion

, Bunnylover
brizingre1 (3)

chesskid3

,

pidgey

, Hiraki
Tierce (3) hiplop,

Vi

, Amrun
Majiffy (2) dramonic,

PeregrineV

DeathNote

(1) Shadoweh
Tammy (1) AurorusVox

I Am Innocent

(1) Tierce
Amrun (1)

FakeGod

Bunnylover (1) havingfitz
Shadoweh (1) Tammy

Not voting (1) Majiffy

FakeGod

(8) FaerieLord, pappums rat, vijay2vasandani, brizingre1,

DeathNote

,

I Am Innocent

, Bunnylover, dramonic
Tierce (4) hiplop,

Vi

, Amrun,

MagnaofIllusion

brizingre1 (3)

chesskid3

,

pidgey

, Hiraki
Bunnylover (2) havingfitz,

PeregrineV

vijay2vasandani (1) Tierce

DeathNote

(1) Shadoweh
Tammy (1) AurorusVox
Amrun (1)

FakeGod

Shadoweh (1) Tammy

Not voting (1) Majiffy

FakeGod

(8) FaerieLord, pappums rat, vijay2vasandani, brizingre1,

DeathNote

,

I Am Innocent

, Bunnylover, dramonic
Tierce (5) hiplop,

Vi

, Amrun,

MagnaofIllusion

, havingfitz
vijay2vasandani (2) Tierce, Hiraki
brizingre1 (2)

chesskid3

,

pidgey

DeathNote

(1) Shadoweh
Tammy (1) AurorusVox
Amrun (1)

FakeGod

Bunnylover (1)

PeregrineV

Shadoweh (1) Tammy

Not voting (1) Majiffy

FakeGod

(8) FaerieLord, pappums rat, vijay2vasandani, brizingre1,

DeathNote

,

I Am Innocent

, Bunnylover, dramonic
Tierce (6) hiplop,

Vi

, Amrun,

MagnaofIllusion

, havingfitz,

chesskid3

vijay2vasandani (2) Tierce, Hiraki
brizingre1 (2)

pidgey

DeathNote

(1) Shadoweh
Tammy (1) AurorusVox
Amrun (1)

FakeGod

Bunnylover (1)

PeregrineV

Shadoweh (1) Tammy

Not voting (1) Majiffy

FakeGod

(7) FaerieLord, pappums rat, vijay2vasandani, brizingre1,

DeathNote

, Bunnylover, dramonic
Tierce (7) hiplop,

Vi

, Amrun,

MagnaofIllusion

, havingfitz,

chesskid3

,

I Am Innocent

vijay2vasandani (3) Tierce, Hiraki,

FakeGod

brizingre1 (2)

pidgey

, Shadoweh
Tammy (1) AurorusVox
Bunnylover (1)

PeregrineV

Shadoweh (1) Tammy

Not voting (1) Majiffy

FakeGod

(8) FaerieLord, pappums rat, vijay2vasandani, brizingre1,

DeathNote

, Bunnylover, dramonic,

PeregrineV

Tierce (7) hiplop,

Vi

, Amrun,

MagnaofIllusion

, havingfitz,

chesskid3

,

I Am Innocent

vijay2vasandani (3) Tierce, Hiraki,

FakeGod

brizingre1 (2)

pidgey

, Shadoweh
Tammy (1) AurorusVox
Shadoweh (1) Tammy

Not voting (1) Majiffy

FakeGod

(9) FaerieLord, pappums rat, vijay2vasandani, brizingre1,

DeathNote

, Bunnylover, dramonic,

PeregrineV

, Shadoweh
Tierce (8) hiplop,

Vi

, Amrun,

MagnaofIllusion

, havingfitz,

chesskid3

,

I Am Innocent

, AurorusVox
vijay2vasandani (3) Tierce, Hiraki,

FakeGod

brizingre1 (1)

pidgey

Shadoweh (1) Tammy

Not voting (1) Majiffy

FakeGod

(12) [LYNCH]

FaerieLord, pappums rat, vijay2vasandani, brizingre1,

DeathNote

, Bunnylover, dramonic,

PeregrineV

, Shadoweh, Tammy,

MagnaofIllusion

,

pidgey

Tierce (7) hiplop,

Vi

, Amrun, havingfitz,

chesskid3

,

I Am Innocent

, AurorusVox
vijay2vasandani (3) Tierce, Hiraki,

FakeGod

Not voting (1) Majiffy

Spoiler: D2 vote counts

Amrun (2) AurorusVox, dramonic
Tierce (2) Amrun, hiplop

pidgey

(1)

I Am Innocent

I Am Innocent

(1)

chesskid3

Hiraki (1) Hiraki

Not voting (12) Majiffy, Tierce, FaerieLord, pappums rat, vijay2vasandani, brizingre1, Bunnylover, Shadoweh, Tammy,

MagnaofIllusion

,

pidgey

, havingfitz

I Am Innocent

(2)

chesskid3

,

pidgey

Amrun (2) AurorusVox, dramonic
Tierce (2) Amrun, hiplop

pidgey

(1)

I Am Innocent

Hiraki (1) Hiraki

Not voting (11) Majiffy, Tierce, FaerieLord, pappums rat, vijay2vasandani, brizingre1, Bunnylover, Shadoweh, Tammy,

MagnaofIllusion

, havingfitz

pidgey

(4)

I Am Innocent

, pappums rat, Tierce, Bunnylover
Tierce (3) Amrun, hiplop, havingfitz

I Am Innocent

(2)

chesskid3

,

pidgey

Amrun (2) AurorusVox, dramonic
vijay2vasandani (1) Hiraki
Tammy (1) FaerieLord

Not voting (6) Majiffy, vijay2vasandani, brizingre1, Shadoweh, Tammy,

MagnaofIllusion

pidgey

(7)

I Am Innocent

, pappums rat, Tierce, Bunnylover, FaerieLord, AurorusVox, hiplop

I Am Innocent

(2)

chesskid3

,

pidgey

Tierce (2) Amrun, havingfitz
vijay2vasandani (1) Hiraki
FaerieLord (1) vijay2vasandani
Amrun (1) dramonic

Not voting (5) Majiffy, brizingre1, Shadoweh, Tammy,

MagnaofIllusion

pidgey

(9)

I Am Innocent

, pappums rat, Tierce, Bunnylover, FaerieLord, AurorusVox, hiplop, dramonic,

chesskid3

Tierce (2) Amrun, havingfitz
vijay2vasandani (1) Hiraki

I Am Innocent

(1)

pidgey

Hiraki (1)

MagnaofIllusion

FaerieLord (1) vijay2vasandani

pidgey

(10) [LYNCH]

I Am Innocent

, pappums rat, Tierce, Bunnylover, Amrun, FaerieLord, AurorusVox, hiplop, dramonic,

chesskid3

vijay2vasandani (1) Hiraki

I Am Innocent

(1)

pidgey

Hiraki (1)

MagnaofIllusion

FaerieLord (1) vijay2vasandani
Tierce (1) havingfitz

Not voting (4) Majiffy, brizingre1, Shadoweh, Tammy

PEdit: I don't have a scumread on you and that worries me. Are you town, Amrun?

What conclusions did you actually gain from this?

I was organizing them more than actually looking for foregone conclusions. VCA is not secret numerology and I'm still learning. I have to analyze other aspects and players, but my initial conclusion is that havingfitz is scum.


PEdit:

Spoiler: This should help some, Amrun.

[Tierce]

I know he said he implied he would do it, Majiffy, but... how do you

know

chesskid tried to get IaI dead last night? It's the second time you mention this. It's a relatively reasonable assumption--however, what makes you so certain it's what happened?

Which reminds me of something you may have said and I missed: who was your vig pick N1?

[Tierce]

It is beyond explanation that Tierce has survived being on the brink of elimination from D1. I would propose it’s because she is on the non-Aegis scum faction and her buddies are helping keep others off her...combined with the fact half her D1 wagon is dead (ding ding ding!!!). But I haven’t caught her in a lie so she has that going for her. Plus she’s not a complete asshole from what I can tell. Feels good to vote both at the same time so,

Oh for pity's sake.

I don't have the time nor the patience to address your wall now, travel prep calls, but this? This is utter bollocks. "It is beyond explanation"?

1) I was a counterwagon to scum who ended up being almost deadline-lynched

by town

. Look at the final voters. You have MoI and pidgey voting FakeGod. People are not voting me because they don't think I'm scum. Wow, that was really complex reasoning.

2) D2 all dealt around pidgey and pappums. yesterday, you knew pappums has done this kind of gambit before, you posted with pidgey at L-3, and

you said nothing at all about this being a possible gambit

. For someone who has repeatedly complained about yesterday's lynch, you did nothing to stop it when it was actually possible for you to do so.

I'll wait a bit to see if pappums spells things out more before I move over to Pidgey.

Yes, this is definitely someone concerned that pappums has done this before and it went horribly wrong. You weren't even trying to look for info or trying to push people away from the wagon--you expressed interest to join it. Only later did you complain about it.

And

you

were perfectly aware that the votecount was wrong. That thing you were accusing me of?

I'm at -4.

But still, no more votes would be appreciated until Pappum claims whatever.

Actually you're at L-3. And I didn't call your triple post scummy. Read again.

You knew that Amrun's vote was not being counted in the previous votecount and did nothing about it.

In fact, I'd like to call everyone's attention to this

:

Unvote

Vote: pidgey

L-1 motherfucker

I'm submitting IaI again, Majiffy

Votecount 2.5

MagnaofIllusion (0)
Vijay2Vasandani (1) Hiraki
Brizingre1 (0)
Pidgey (9) I Am Innocent, pappums rat, Tierce, bunnylover, FaerieLord, AurorusVox, hiplop, Dramonic, chesskid3
havingfitz (0)
Majiffy (0)
hiplop (0)
Parama (0)
Dramonic (0)
chesskid3 (0)
I Am Innocent (1) Pidgey
Hiraki (1) MagnaOfIllusion
FaerieLord (1) Vijay2Vasandani
Amrun (0)
AurorusVox (0)
Tierce (2) Amrun, havingfitz
pappums rat (0)
bunnylover (0)
Shadoweh (0)

Not Voting (4) - Majiffy, Brizingre1, Shadoweh, Parama

With

19

alive, it takes

10

to lynch.

Deadline is (expired on 2012-05-26 20:00:00)

Searching for a replacement for Parama.

Just a quick check in before I call it a night....why are people still voting Pidgey if pappums' was full of shit?

And why do you do that pappums? The last game we were in (long since completed) you did the same thing and I do not recall anything good coming from it. fock.

Chesskid’s vote was, in fact, the hammer. Our apologies for the error. This votecount is accurate as of that vote (as it was the lynch).

A lynch has been reached.

Votecount 2.6

MagnaofIllusion (0)
Vijay2Vasandani (1) Hiraki
Brizingre1 (0)

Pidgey (10)

I Am Innocent, pappums rat, Tierce, bunnylover, Amrun, FaerieLord, AurorusVox, hiplop, Dramonic, chesskid3
havingfitz (0)
Majiffy (0)
hiplop (0)
Parama (0)
Dramonic (0)
chesskid3 (0)
I Am Innocent (1) Pidgey
Hiraki (1) MagnaOfIllusion
FaerieLord (1) Vijay2Vasandani
Amrun (0)
AurorusVox (0)
Tierce (1) havingfitz
pappums rat (0)
bunnylover (0)
Shadoweh (0)

Not Voting (4) - Majiffy, Brizingre1, Shadoweh, Parama

With

19

alive, it takes

10

to lynch.

Searching for a replacement for Parama.

You knew chess's vote was the hammer, because you knew Amrun's vote was not being counted (see that L-3 comment when the mod votecount showed L-4). You complained after the hammer after you had showed this knowledge, but made nothing to stop the situation beforehand, when you knew it was very likely a failed gambit. You were aware of the exact size of the wagon and only commented when it was too late.

More votes on havingfitz, please. This is pretty much confirmed scum.

[Tierce]

Too much rage not to address this:

13) What makes you think I ignored flips when I made the comment about the

4 dead townies

on your D1 wagon?

'4 dead townies' on my wagon when it was at 'its peak'? Are you drunk?

Tierce (8) hiplop,

Vi

, Amrun,

MagnaofIllusion

, havingfitz,

chesskid3

,

I Am Innocent

, AurorusVox

There's a modified SK and a scum that was partner to the other dead scum in my wagon. The modified SK died at night. So did the townies. IaI was VIGGED and we know who did it.

You are calling them 'four townies' who were 'eliminated'. Ascribing fake blame and misrepresenting the situation.

Let's look at the other wagon, shall we?

FakeGod

(12) [LYNCH]

FaerieLord, pappums rat, vijay2vasandani, brizingre1,

DeathNote

, Bunnylover, dramonic,

PeregrineV

, Shadoweh, Tammy,

MagnaofIllusion

,

pidgey

Here we have 'four dead

(actual)

townies', one of them vigged, two other NK'd, one lynched. On a wagon on scum.

What are the conclusions you take from this?


Half my D1 wagon is dead, yes. And? How does that make me scum?
1) They were not all killed by scum.
2) 2 of them were scum.


And you say I'm likely to be scum based on the D1 wagons? That is utterly ridiculous.


Buuuut we're past the point in which we're doing anything profitable with this.
The important issue here has ben revealed in Post 1270. Kindly eat rope.

[Tierce]

Other than point out the correct L-#? He should have actually pointed it out in a way everyone would noticed and

informed the mods that the votecount was wrong

.

AV, havingfitz is saying that

I

was aware of the correct number of votes and that my not-aware-it-was-post-lynch post was scummy posturing--while

he

was

clearly

aware of the votecount and

knew that chesskid was the hammer

.

havingfitz's Post 1037 is completely fake, he knew there had been a hammer and was acting like there hadn't been, when just on his previous post he was very aware of the exact number of people in pidgey's wagon. He knew how many votes there were, knew chesskid had hammered,

and acted like it was a L-1 vote for towncred, instead of admitting that chesskid had hammered.

[/BBcode as substitute of rage]

[Tierce]

Now in order to say fitz is caught scum for not informing the mod for not including Amrun

we have to assume that fitz actually looked at and was paying attention to the vote count.

I'm at -4.

But still, no more votes would be appreciated until Pappum claims whatever.

Actually you're at L-3.

And I didn't call your triple post scummy. Read again.

Emphasis

on both posts mine. Yes, he knew the votecount.

[Tierce]

Tammy, it's not that he did not inform the mod. That post was written in the exact order I went through it. Informing the mod was something he should have done, sure, but something he DID know was how many the votes were.

Therefore, his post after chesskid, in which he acts like pidgey has not been hammered, is a total lie.

That is my current main gripe with him--that that complaint was completely faked.

I'm referring to this post:

Just a quick check in before I call it a night....why are people still voting Pidgey if pappums' was full of shit?

And why do you do that pappums? The last game we were in (long since completed) you did the same thing and I do not recall anything good coming from it. fock.

This came after this post, in which the mod did (still) not count Amrun's vote, but previously, havingfitz had shown knowledge of how many the votes were (his L-3 comment):

Votecount 2.5

MagnaofIllusion (0)
Vijay2Vasandani (1) Hiraki
Brizingre1 (0)
Pidgey (9) I Am Innocent, pappums rat, Tierce, bunnylover, FaerieLord, AurorusVox, hiplop, Dramonic, chesskid3
havingfitz (0)
Majiffy (0)
hiplop (0)
Parama (0)
Dramonic (0)
chesskid3 (0)
I Am Innocent (1) Pidgey
Hiraki (1) MagnaOfIllusion
FaerieLord (1) Vijay2Vasandani
Amrun (0)
AurorusVox (0)
Tierce (2) Amrun, havingfitz
pappums rat (0)
bunnylover (0)
Shadoweh (0)

Not Voting (4) - Majiffy, Brizingre1, Shadoweh, Parama

With

19

alive, it takes

10

to lynch.

Deadline is (expired on 2012-05-26 20:00:00)

Searching for a replacement for Parama.

[Tierce]

Tammy:

You've just told me that fitz keeps his own votecounts. Ignore the mod votecount for a moment, then. Keeping his own votecounts is something havingfitz shows he does in this post:

I'm at -4.

But still, no more votes would be appreciated until Pappum claims whatever.

Actually you're at L-3. And I didn't call your triple post scummy. Read again.

He knows how many votes pidgey is at. This means that, after chesskid hammers and no one else notices, havingfitz knew it was a hammer, because he was counting the Amrun vote that the mods missed.

Therefore, the following post is a lie, because this is not the kind of post you'd make

after

a hammer if you are town. This is a pre-hammer post--but he knew it was written in a post-hammer condition, because he was aware of the actual, correct votecount:

Just a quick check in before I call it a night....why are people still voting Pidgey if pappums' was full of shit?

And why do you do that pappums? The last game we were in (long since completed) you did the same thing and I do not recall anything good coming from it. fock.

Pretend you are fitz. You know how many votes there actually are. You know chesskid has hammered pidgey. Why would you make a post complaining about the pile of votes still growing

instead of actually pointing out it's a hammer

? He knew it was a hammer and acted like it wasn't. It's

fake

.

[Tierce]

I was mostly griping in that section:

Other than point out the correct L-#? He should have actually pointed it out in a way everyone would noticed and

informed the mods that the votecount was wrong

.

[snip]

[/BBcode as substitute of rage]

The point stands: havingfitz's post-chesskid-hammer post is scummy posturing (and by making it he shows he's actually aware that the mod VC is wrong, since

mod-VC-knowledge is what one would use to fake a pre-hammer post

, but whatever, beside the point, etc.).

[Tierce]

It's not semantics.

havingfitz knew what the correct votecount was. He made a post pretending that he thought pidgey was still at L-1 when he had been hammered already. That post is, thus, faked. Town has no motivation to pretend not to know what the votecount was if they know the exact count--but scum has all the motivation in trying to get towncred for defending pidgey by acting like he had not been hammered yet, with none of the 'annoying' consequences that might help town--because pidgey

had

already been hammered.

[Tierce]

'Forgot', when he comes out in D3 accusing me of doing just that (as if I knew pidgey had been hammered and my vote on IaI was contrived)? No, I don't think he forgot at all, I think it was all too vivid in his mind because

he

did it. I believe havingfitz was very aware of the votecount and was trying to ascribe blame for that wagon:

You do however have a very cordial Q&a with IAI in post 903 AND I find it difficult to believe that someone like you who has such a

decent grasp of what goes on behind the scenes

and is so handy with the VCs would not have realized Pidgey had in fact been lynched. I find your thoughtful move from Pidgey to IAI after Pidgey had in fact already been lynched to be more likely than not...some grandstanding on your behalf to earn town points. Ie contrived.

[Tierce]

*bated

Sally, having swallowed cheese,
Directs down holes the scented breeze,
Enticing thus with baited breath
Nice mice to an untimely death.

Every time anyone says

baited

breath I think of stinking cheese or rotten fish. Please don't.

/pet peeve

[Tierce]

I'll be V/LA until June 8th. I'll have computer access, but it won't be constant since I will be

getting drunk with scummers

doing ~tourist things~.

[Tierce]

No. I'm going out the door in about 5 minutes to go to Scotland and Ireland. I intend to bribe SWORD OF DESTINY #1 (well, quadz anyway, don't know about mod numbers) with booze to get the whole setup so we can crack this game open. Sounds like a perfectly sound plan.

(As in, I'm visiting Edinburgh to meet singer, quadz, Porochaz, Shanba, maaaaybe Elmo and Patrick, then off to Dublin for Faraday times. See you lot after I land.)

[Tierce]

Dammit. Here was I all set to

show I'm actually a Mina alt

punch Faraday. >.>

[Tierce]

Apparently vijay thinks I'm doing a chainsaw defense of

FaerieLord

by attacking havingfitz.

It doesn't work that way. I think havingfitz is scum and FL town, but havingfitz is not attacking FL at all, so... where is the chainsaw defense?

[Tierce]

Huh... But havingfitz was not attacking FL at all when I started accusing havingfitz. This does not even match a definition of chainsaw defense. O_o

You're saying I'm attacking X because X was attacking Y, but X did not attack Y for a long time. Your whole premise is flawed.

You're saying:
1) havingfitz attacked FL.
2) I accused havingfitz for this, to defend FL, my partner.

But 1) wasn't happening, so the logic behind 2) is faulty. I think FL is town (and yes, I know your initial question wasn't directed at me, but I am entitled to my read on the slot). I think havingfitz is scum. These aspects are not directly related to each other and nothing on havingfitz's behavior has, so far, influenced my read on FaerieLord and vice-versa.

[Tierce]

Okay, let's assume that. Under that premise:

Why do you think that FL (scum) would come up with that reasoning for linking pappums rat and myself (FL's buddy) via 'the cop hints were not obvious'? It seems a rather pointless bus--if pappums is scum, then he's forced to lynch me; he would lose two members of his team. If pappums is town, the whole process is pointless and he gains no towncred for that logic. Either way, it would look bad/end up badly for FL-scum (end up lynching pappums-town with badly constructed logic, or end up lynching two buddies (pappums and me) with no real need for bussing at this stage).

FaerieLord's logic in that situation is convoluted, yes, but it seems to come from a town mindset because there's no scum profit in linking pappums and myself and then go for pappums first with a 'vote in spirit' on me.



Aaand I'm out to explore the city~

[Tierce]

I asked vijay, Tammy, not you--I want to follow

his

train of thought.

[Tierce]

Yes, I know he did. I'm just saying that the point of this was not to get an answer from anyone else, but one from him. Your reply didn't really tell me anything about your alignment, vijay's told me about the path his mind is going through. I'm trying to put myself in his position and see if it would make sense for me to see the same thing, so input from others is not what I was looking for.

I have a tendency to reply to questions posed to others (hell, see above, the "I think FL is town" thing), but that tends to get in the way of reads and I'm trying not to do it so much. I get a bit blunt with others who do it too, and I'm sorry.

[Tierce]

I explained my vote was not sheeping once already, fl. Also I agree with Tammy on tierce's arguments against vijay - there are plenty of reasons to tie scum and town players. Lynch you first, push mislynch on pappums town.

"Arguments

against

vijay"? Where did this come from?

I'm not calling vijay scum. I was trying to understand his reasoning.

He wasn't coming for me first, he was going after

pappums

first--and for scum, trading a scumbuddy lynch for a future mislynch on someone that fakeclaimed cop is a bit of a weird concept. I think it's just that I don't understand how vijay jumps from one point to another. It's not scummy, but I don't follow the thought process as being

logical

. Doesn't make sense.


pappums, "no way [you] could have a result on [pidgey]" was also (obviously) a "you can't possibly have a guilty result on me because

I'm town

".

[Tierce]

Post.

Will address this eventually. Eventually = not now.

[Tierce]

^ Wan't the cop emoticon, it was the demand for miller claims. That's what Katsuki (as a traitor cop) did in Tiger MetaTiger.

Super mega-skimming before breakfast. 'lo sexy beard--I'm obvtown and you should be sheeping Amrun/me.

[Tierce]

EBWOP: s/Wan't/Wasn't

One day I'll learn to proofread.

[Tierce]

In Ireland. Post tonight.

[Tierce]

Where is Tirece?
She been active in another game, and yet haven't made a single post in this one other then to avoid a prod.

*Tierce

As dram said, in Ireland, addressing other games that are moving much speedier than this one.

Honestly, I don't have a scumread on vijay or on FL, and recent posts don't convince me on either of them. We're at a deadlock 20h to deadline, which makes me think one of the following is happening:

1) Scum is pretty happy with all the wagons and doesn't really have a need to push either of them, since there will be a no-lynch or a town lynch;
2) If the game is 16:3:3:1, the last Aegis scum might well be one of the current wagonees (see above for the behavior of the other scumbags), and doesn't really have much of a choice in the matter since he's reduced to an SK when it comes to voting block power.

There is no way there are two scum of the same team being wagoned today. They would already be pushing the third wagon or choosing a bus to commit to.

This whole business makes the FL wagon look very sketchy due to the other two wagonees voting him, but I would lynch FL before lynching vijay--it's havingfitz > FaerieLord > vijay2vasandani. The first for being scum, the second for wagon information, stop-the-vijay-wagons-you-derps-he's-town.

[Tierce]

@Tammy:
I spent a good chunk of the last day outside (bog bodies! ), then yes, I was posting elsewhere (mum's the word, etc.), then I was getting plastered and asleep when the deadline hit. While outside I remembered the game was deadline-lynch, which I still keep forgetting and makes my previous analysis 1) invalid in the sense of a no-lynch, but no less valid in the sense of "scum is fine with the current wagons".

1.

Sorry for the late post. As I said, had an exam today, then I remembered we're deadline approaching so I made an effort to try and post and get some final thoughts in. But then I realized I don't have any final thoughts really.

2.

I still fully believe that vijay is town, and agree on his last post about AV, as I have stated before. He'll be my vote tomorrow, if I am to survive.
Expecting to be shot tonight, so...

1. Apologize moar, scum.
2. You wont be getting shot tonight because you are getting lynched today.

I don't like this post. What did the apology have to do with his alignment? What need is there to rile him up over it? Why the need to remark on the impending lynch?
This seems you are arguing with FaerieLord just to argue. I know the deadline was near and you had a scumread on him, but it felt unnecessary if you were trying to get results out of a quickly-approaching lynchee.

Vijay2Vasandani (6) Hiraki, Majiffy, Dramonic, Thor665, AurorusVox, Tammy, Amrun
^ If Vijay flips town or Aegis, there are (at least) 2 scum on this wagon. I'm also incredibly pissed at how many votes for vijay have been sheeping

WAIT WHAT THE FUCK IS AMRUN DOING ON THIS WAGON WHEN HE JUST TOLD ME MY CASE WAS SHIT AND I'VE BEEN THE ONLY ONE TO ACTUALLY PRESENT A FUCKING CASE?

UNVOTE: vijay
VOTE: Amrun
I don't give a fuck if I'm a voice in your head, you're scum.

Explain. Especially explain why on earth you would jump off the vijay2vasandani wagon at that stage and thus make FaerieLord more likely to be lynched.

Why on earth is Bunnylover dead? ISO after dinner.

I think, but am not 100%, that AurorusVox investigated Parama n1 and got an innocent.

I doubt it. However, I remember that he called Tammy "town since she replaced in", though, and that it rang a weird bell in my head--will check later.

The voices are angry. The voices wanted to shoot v2v.

I'll get around to this later, gotta be at the studio in 30 min.

And yet you wanted to lynch Amrun yesterday, contributing for someone else to die over vijay?

I don't get the dissonance.

VOTE: Majiffy


PEdit: Shadoweh, what havingfitz claimed requires him to die if he ever shoots, so no, nothing due to him unless he's scum and actually shooting people.

PEdit2: No vote for vijay because you don't want to rush things, but no vote for Amrun either? You're not "not rushing things", you're throwing dirt willy-nilly.

[Tierce]

Tierce: I don't get what you mean. Explain?

havingfitz's claim is a bodyguard that shoots back if he or his protected target are shot. He dies in the process. Since havingfitz is alive, none of the kills tonight are his doing--unless someone doc'd him, I guess.

[Tierce]

Post tomorrow. Keep putting off rereading 70 pages.

[Tierce]

Fascinating developments.



Alright, let's play.

I am not Aegis. I am also not vanilla (shocker). I'm a scum rolecop. I'm handing you an Aegis on a platter. I die, but he goes down with me.

Thor is Aegis, chickadees.

He is a

Diverter

. Twice per game, if he's not performing the Aegis kill, he can pick a non-Aegis player to be tracked/watched at the kill instead of the Aegis killer. Essentially, he can produce fake watcher/tracker results.

[As a rolecop, I get copies of role PMs without stated alignment, but when a role PM has something like "your team's kill", it's pretty evident we are not talking about a lovey-dovey town role. Oops?]

You know this guy is slick. If you let him talk, you'll never get him lynched. Leashing scum always ends wrong, because he'll turn on you sooner rather than later. Don't let him squirm away from this one.


Oh, you haven't finished discussing things? You'd like to know more? Too bad, so sad.

G'night.

UNVOTE: Majiffy
VOTE: Tierce


I'd link to PARTY HARD videos, but I'm a rebel. So have a baby red panda instead.

[Tierce]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EQjNo3_BFw

Etc~

[Tierce]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdSwXxqbSFM

[Tierce]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_N_rjkdcKU


Thor: You should know by now that you are only allowed to be scum with me and me alone. I am a possessive scumbuddy.

And you betrayed me.

</3

/wrists

[Tierce]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EK7ORlaaW8o

[Tierce]

At last.

We might have steamrolled this if we took advantage of what happened to Aegis, but I think we were all pretty checked out in this game.

[Tierce]

Why did you out Thor? Your team might have had a chance I think if you wouldn't have outed Thor.

Thor would never get lynched, and we needed to use night kills on town, not waste them on cross-kills. Ensuring that town lynched Thor the next day OR that Amrun would shoot him bought us time.


Nice fakeclaim, fitz.

[Tierce]

Tammy--you could have gone and checked Tiger MetaTiger if you were that interested in the pappums-Tierce thing. You kept circling it without new info when I had given you all the info you could've wanted by mentioned Tiger MetaTiger and Katsuki's play there as similar to pappums'.

And no, it had nothing to do with 'cop emoticon', that would be ridiculous. Everything I said about pappums/pidgey was genuine.


PEdit: Not really. A player who was choosing to shoot Bunnylover over everyone else wouldn't be much of a help at bringing down town numbers at night, and then he forgot to kill the night he died.

[Tierce]

When your reasoning for pappums-scum is "Tierce caught the cop-guilty pretty fast" and I had explained how, it seems to follow that the next logical step is to see if there is any truth to my statement. Your case on pappums pretty much depended on my ability to catch small details, so:
1) checking if this is reflected in my other games (it is) and/or
2) checking if there had been a similar situation in the past (there was)
seem rather viable ways of dealing with that suspicion. As it was, it was pretty silly to see you going in circles without rooting around for more info.

Maybe I'm biased, but IMO, the info you needed to gather intel on this was rather explicit and could have avoided that fluctuation on pappums's slot. Not that I'm complaining in terms of what it could have meant for Svalinn (so many times this was misspelled ._.), but tacking a '???' on it seems a bit wasteful of the information you could have reached with a few clicks.

[Tierce]

When your reasoning for pappums-scum is "Tierce caught the cop-guilty pretty fast" and I had explained how, it seems to follow that the next logical step is to see if there is any truth to my statement. Your case on pappums pretty much depended on my ability to catch small details, so:
1) checking if this is reflected in my other games (it is) and/or
2) checking if there had been a similar situation in the past (there was)
seem rather viable ways of dealing with that suspicion. As it was, it was pretty silly to see you going in circles without rooting around for more info.

Maybe I'm biased, but IMO, the info you needed to gather intel on this was rather explicit and could have avoided that fluctuation on pappums's slot. Not that I'm complaining in terms of what it could have meant for Svalinn (so many times this was misspelled ._.), but tacking a '???' on it seems a bit wasteful of the information you could have reached with a few clicks.

Still wouldn't have mattered. And I'm adverse to going and rooting around in old games. I try to keep a game as contained as possible as it's the present game. I realize that you think meta's the only way to win a game and research everything, but I don't play that way so there was no information I

needed

to gather.

I think it's pretty lame and rude of you to pull your little condescending bit telling me that it was silly for me to judge someone's behavior by the content of the present game.

I don't think meta analysis is the only way to win a game. I think it's fairly important, but it's not everything.

"Lame and rude", and "condescending"? You are being pointlessly aggressive when I used a word as tame as "silly".

You pretty much insulted my intelligence in acting the way you did during the game; while that's annoying, it's a game and you're going to take the wrong conclusions, it happens and no harm done. I'm just saying that the path to get that info was right under your nose. If you don't want to use it, it's your choice.

I'm pointing something you did so you have the tools to improve on that if you ever want to said tools. That's it, there is no condescension implied. If you take commentary as condescending, I'll shut up, there's no need to get into an argument.


With that said, well done to you and the town, you had a good game.

[Tierce]

You had a good game too.

Thanks, but this isn't true. The simple fact that I got close to being lynched D1 is a pretty dismal sign for my play, and then I couldn't ride the towncred I should have gotten from the Aegis lynch and IaI's flip. My dayplay was rather terrible, I felt too detached from the game.
The somewhat-redeeming aspect was the night play--I copped MoI, Amrun and Thor, and dealing with these roles/players was a definite priority. Still, bleh, could've done much more if I applied myself to what I had in my hands. This game wasn't even close to what I can do regardless of alignment, and I'm aware of it.

[Tierce]

I still want to know if Thor knew you

[Tierce]

were scum or not because he sure was trying to talk me out of my read on you pretty strongly.

I didn't submit an NK last night via the usual 'Thor is derp who forgets/gets too busy to submit stuff' meta/ Derp la herp on me.

I probably would have shot Shadoweh or fitz though to hunt for other scum

.

[Tierce]

Fuck yeah, claim scum in-thread and take out another one?
...I wanted to be town and awesome again. >.>

Going down in a blaze of glory was the best possible result. Pity the game didn't pan out from there.


But yeah, Thor got pretty screwed over with how his role was worded. :/ There were no good ways for a Diverter's role to be described that would not out the fact that he was scum to a "you get the full role description" rolecop, but I had a few guilt complexes outing that. I don't like definitive investigative roles like cops (even with millers/godfathers/sanities), it takes away from a player's damnedest efforts to act protown and screws them over with little chance of defense. I had to play to my wincon and I admit that once I got down to claiming a guilty on him, it was fun, but the whole thing, bleh.

[Tierce]

No objections to releasing the QT from me.

[Tierce]

Tierce you should have done what you did to Thor but to a townie. Basically, same exact post, but put a townie's name in there. Would have worked splendidly; town killing off itself, leaving both scum teams to murder freely.

That would be pointless.

I wanted to out Thor, because he was scum and we were better off not wasting cross-kills. If Amrun and/or the town were busy killing/lynching Thor, they would not be focused on Svalinn AND Thor would not be at our throats. Granted, he was looking for scum in all the wrong places, but I didn't know that. The choice to out Thor was thought through and it was better than outing town. The problem is that the game fell apart afterwards due to fitz's fakeclaim.

I was disappointed that no one ever posited the chance of a third Voice, which could make Majiffy part of one of the scum teams (that said, he'd be cross-killed faster than you can say mirror-scum). Also sad that no one realized that I stripped my claim of scumnumber-mentions and left in "

an

Aegis", which could point to 4v4. Subtlety never works. ._.

[Tierce]

It wasn't necessarily too many scum. 4+4 scum, 1 my-PM-says-I-lose-SK and 14 townies? Swingy, but feasible.

[Tierce]

They are linked in the role PMs.