Best Athletes Mafia (Abandoned)

[Kmd4390]

vote seanald

[Kmd4390]

unvote, vote drroy

Found scum. No need to try for a reaction from seanald.

[Kmd4390]

Benmage, my point is that if you try to reassure everyone you're town after the lightest of provocations, you look over-defensive, a common scum-tell. I reaction-tested you in order to probe further, and your reaction is a lot more town than, say, if you have said something along the lines of "Oh but of course I'm town."

Unvote

Kmd, why is what I just said a scumtell?

Doesn't matter. It's not as scummy as the unvote and "reaction test" comment. Is prosecutor also scum?

[Kmd4390]

Yeah, drroy and prosecutor are both scum.

By the way, since we have all these town claims out already, I claim serial killer. But I'm gonna be shooting for scum every night so keep me alive. I think we can break this game. Benmage and DDD already claimed town so I won't kill them.

[Kmd4390]

Oh and my athletes are ron artest, terrell owens, and george brett.

[Kmd4390]

Lol

[Kmd4390]

BS2, I get four kills every third night. Obviously, that's Artest and I use him first. Gonna be a bloody night.

[Kmd4390]

Definitely liking the drroy wagon.

[Kmd4390]

I'll lay out a drroy case some time tomorrow or Saturday.

[Kmd4390]

Benmage, yeah. I want a computer to do it. Kind of annoying on my phone. Especially with my girlfriend looking over my shoulder. I don't see how it hurts to wait.

Actually I should bring that up now. The majority of my posts are from my phone. I can use a laptop between 1 and 3 times a week usually.

[Kmd4390]

Meh. Everyone was all "I claim town" so I figured id throw a "claim" out there as well. The list of athletes should have been the dead give away. Although those three would be amusing in this game. TO could be a lightning rod.

[Kmd4390]

Benmage, how is prosecutor's inexperience a town tell?

[Kmd4390]

Meh. Looking at prosecutor in ISO, I see where you are coming from, Benmage.

Opinion on IS is that he hasn't started playing yet. Being an older player, he probably just doesn't feel like wasting time with early Day 1. I don't see any alignment tells in his ISO. All he's done is recognize the obvfake SK claim which says nothing at all.

DDD appears to be just shamelessly following his town-boner for you (Benmage). I could be wrong, but my impression of DDD is that he plays a better scum game and not as great of a town game. It could just be him not doing much because it's early, but I see town in DDD right now.

OnceAnd looks good except for saying "their" when he meant "they're". He isn't really explaining reads, but that's most likely playstyle. I don't always explain my reads. I'd say town even though there isn't a whole lot that stands out to me and the good feelings I get could be a subconcious bias because he has drroy (who I am voting) as scum and me as town.

[Kmd4390]

The whole "scum don't read the thread" or pay attention argument.. never held any weight for me. As I am always more meticulous in my reading and posting when scum. Which goes hand n hand with the MD discussion that 'slips' are more often from town not thinking before posting... than scum, who often consider everything before posting.

This varies from player to player. I personally don't feel I read/post more carefully as one alignment than the other.

[Kmd4390]

So I have my drroy case done, but Barnes N Noble internet is acting up so I may not get to post it today. It's saved on the laptop I'm using, so as soon as I can get back here (probably tomorrow), all I have to do is copy and paste to the thread.

[Kmd4390]

Sweet! Got internet back. Here's the case.

Ok, DrRoy is scum. Here's why:

1. The original Benmage vote

Vote: Benmage

Why would you claim town almost immediately?

I've heard of serious votes out of the gate to avoid dealing with RVS (and I usually do this myself). And you tend to reach a little when you do that. But really? This looks like scum jumping at the first thing they possibly can.

2. The way he backed off of the vote after my vote on him

Benmage, my point is that if you try to reassure everyone you're town after the lightest of provocations, you look over-defensive, a common scum-tell. I reaction-tested you in order to probe further, and your reaction is a lot more town than, say, if you have said something along the lines of "Oh but of course I'm town."

Unvote

Kmd, why is what I just said a scumtell?

He knew his vote was stupid and needed a way to excuse it. So he calls it a "reaction test". So someone "claims town" and you are going to "reaction test" them with a vote? Not buying it.

And then needing to come up with what scum would say in that situation, he goes with "of course I'm town". First, why would scum say that and not town? Second, how is it even that different from Benmage's reaction. I think the unvote is a combination of everyone else's reaction that Benmage is town and my vote.

Next, look at the placement of his response to me. He made sure the explanation came first, then the unvote. Finally, he addresses me almost as if saying "See? It's not so scummy after all."

3. Trying too hard to look town

OnceAndForEver, either explain your bandwagon or get off.

^Why only call out one of the unexplained votes. There were quite a few others. It's just a "look how town I am" callout.

4. The reaction to what he thought was a real SK claim

Vote: Kmd

I've seen too many games where the SK screwed the town over something awful after promising to vig for them. Until we have more solid evidence, I'm just going to have to take you at your word. The less non-town-aligned players we have out there the better.

Oh yeah, and I'm town, so don't kill me.

What does any good townie do? Vote the non-town (ignoring the lack of a sense of humor). And of course explain in detail why when if you're actual reason for voting is just "OMG SK!", you really, don't need to say much. I've also seen a lot of scums scared of SKs. Usually when a claimed SK is lynched, you see just as much, if not more, scum presence on the wagon as you do on a town lynch.

And of course he has to remind us at the end that he is town as well. Which isn't just point number 3 (trying to look town) in my books. It looks like scum trying to stay alive in the event the "SK" is alive tonight. He saw my "People claimed town so I won't kill them" and wanted to add himself to that list.

5. Deflecting

Godot, I don't think anybody is saying that "oh, for sure, KMD is town because no scum would say anything like that." If we start doing that, we WIFOM until the morning light and no actual productive discussion happens. We should keep an eye on him, but keep searching everybody else too. You're getting dangerously close to speaking in absolutes.

Unvote
Vote: Godot

Also, TheTrollie should post.

When the top targets are DrRoy, myself, and Prosecutor, and everyone is starting to realize I wasn't seriously claiming SK, where do you think DrRoy votes? And with a terrible reason. He's "speaking in absolutes". Wait, no. "getting dangerously close to" doing so. And all Prosecutor said was "everyone is saying". It's a common enough generalization.

Conclusion

Aka tl;dr:
The vote on Benmage was awful. I called it out as such at the same time as a handful of people called Benmage town and DrRoy backed off of it immediately, calling it a "reaction test", which I believe to be false. He is trying too hard to look town, and reacted terrible to the SK "claim", seemingly trying to stay alive in the even there was a SK shot tonight. When enough people realize the "claim" was a joke that the wagon dies down, DrRoy jumps on the most widely suspected player who is not himself for a terrible reason.

So let's lynch the guy.

[Kmd4390]

This series of events looks almost lynch-worthy on it's own:

Vote: Benmage

Why would you claim town almost immediately?

unvote, vote drroy

Found scum. No need to try for a reaction from seanald.

Benmage, my point is that if you try to reassure everyone you're town after the lightest of provocations, you look over-defensive, a common scum-tell. I reaction-tested you in order to probe further, and your reaction is a lot more town than, say, if you have said something along the lines of "Oh but of course I'm town."

Unvote

Kmd, why is what I just said a scumtell?

He knew his vote was stupid and needed a way to excuse it. So he calls it a "reaction test". So someone "claims town" and you are going to "reaction test" them with a vote? Not buying it.

2. Okay, maybe that wasn't a reaction test in the traditional sense of the term. I only learned what those were like a week and a half ago. I stand by my opinion that it was a dumb claim, though, and that at such an early point in the game, with no leads, he was scummiest.

But to respond to DrRoy's response post.

1. Is exactly the thought process I outlined as the town thought process when I made this point. My only problem was that it looked like a lot more of a reach than I'd expect in that spot.

2. If this were true, I feel like you'd apply pressure somewhere else immediately after determining that Benmage was town.

3. Yeah, but this isn't the only instance of this. Just the one that stood out. What about saying TheTrollie needs to post? Why not call out Bub?

4. Really just strengthens the point. My point was that scums are scared of SKs and you looked to be in that spot. Your response is basically, "Yeah, I'm scared of SKs as scum but...". And what follows the "but" doesn't really explain why you felt the need to explain the vote so much.

5. Benmage was the only one to vote Steph other than Dry-fit, who also said Prosecutor was a "good vote".

Meh.

On a quick read last night, I thought I was going to come in here debating with myself on that exchange in the beginning of this post and the response that looked pretty town. But the response doesn't look as strong as I initially thought.

[Kmd4390]

And some questions for some of the people who I haven't seen much from:

absta, you don't seem to be explaining votes a whole lot. Why did you vote OnceAnd and what is your current read on him? And do you have reasons for finding Steph scummy that are your own, and not Benmage's? If not, why is Benmage right?

BS2, your ISO looks like a peanut gallery to me. You labeled your OnceAnd vote a serious one. What is your reason for it? What are your thoughts DrRoy? Benmage? Myself? Anyone?

Bub, what did you notice in that re-read?

Dry-Fit, do you have any reads that aren't related to reactions the the joke SK claim?

Internet Stranger, reads on...anyone? Thoughts on...anything?

Nero, is this backseat playstyle intentional? When can we expect any kind of post with some substance to it?

Seanald, any reads on anyone other than DrRoy? Your last post is the only one I'd consider content and it's just agreement and a vote.

TheTrollie, catching up soon?

[Kmd4390]

^isn't that basically my case reworded?

[Kmd4390]

Bub and Benmage

What do you make of DrRoy's backtrack on his Benmage vote calling it a reaction test only to admit it wasn't really a reaction test?

----------------------

I really think jokes that introduce WIFOM and can influence reads are anti-town.

Uhhhhhh.

If we can't influence reads, how do we.... develop reads? What do we do with players we aren't completely sure of? Asking them questions would influence the read so I guess that's out.

Also, WIFOM isn't bad and/or anti-town.

[Kmd4390]

Dry-fit, yeah that kind of worried me about OnceAnd. His last post makes it look more like he's just sheeping though.

[Kmd4390]

Actually, that's a good point on #4. It implies he knew it was a joke the whole time, yet the vote shows otherwise. Why haven't we lynched this scum yet?

[Kmd4390]

Even scum post the truth many times throughout the course of a game.

[Kmd4390]

Trevor, what do you think of DrRoy? I almost get the feeling you saw him as scummy but saw all the votes on him and didn't want to come off as attacking an easy target.

Steph, jokes in the first few pages of a game are extremely common by both town and scum.

Internet Stranger is town. Good to know.

[Kmd4390]

Meh. He's not one of my scum reads, but I wouldn't say my read on him is strong. I ISO'd him at Benmage's request earlier, so that's in my ISO and not a whole lot has changed since then.

[Kmd4390]

Looks like DrRoy was throwing spaghetti at the wall too see what stuck. The names he threw out seemed to be some of the most widely suspected. Now that Steph appears to have a wagon going, guess who DrRoy thinks is scum.

And this comes after:

5. I thought the other big target at the time was steph. I was unaware why steph should get all the attention when Godot, in my mind, merited more

^this after I accused him of going after Godot, who I saw as the big not-roy target at that stage in the game.

So what happened?

[Kmd4390]

Yeah, DrRoy is clearly just trying to be a people pleaser now. He was called out for his votes, so he softened up. He was called out for that, so he says he'll vote when he thinks he's not misrepping. Then he votes DDD and basically said "hey, he did what I did, but he should KNOW BETTER cuz imma newb lol". With the DDD vote, he was obviously just looking for somewhere to voote after Bub's little callout. The thing I get out of this is my concern that Bub could be a DrRoy buddy is now reversed.

But yeah, I agree with Cheery. My vote on DrRoy, if anything, is more solid.

Benmage, you clearly don't get the point. It's not that DrRoy for some reason intentionally jumbled what happened when to make it look bad. It's that he was trying so hard to find something that he stretched and stretched until it was just plain wrong. Like he found one thing (the reaction to the joke claim) that he knew he himself got heat for, and went "this guy did it too". Next, he's like "omg hey even claimed town like I did". I mean, it really boils down to the old "why are you calling me out for this when so and so did it too?" which can be bad enough anyway, but it just doesn't fit here. Two players doing to exact same thing in the exact same way in a mafia game is extremely rare unless you are talking about wagoning or lurking (and even those aren't always identical). I don't know, maybe I'm not explaining well and am just rambling but I see a bad case on DDD at a time that would be convenient for DrRoy. I also think you (benmage) have your mind made up that DrRoy is town, so I'm probably wasting my time directing any DrRoy stuff at you.

Also can't help but laugh at the first part of 233 by Benmage saying that illogical crazy theory stuff is town after the game I just played with DTMasterscum who fakeclaimed poisoner at like L-3 or something and then survived to near-endgame even with all of his buddies bussing him on Day 1.

As for the "homework" question, id most likely analyze the lynching wagon as I almost always do. Obviously, there are more town than scum on the wagon, but scum are ALWAYS on a Day 1 mislynch. I can only remember one game in my entire mafia career where town was lynched Day 1 without a scum vote. Usually, 2 or 3 scum are on the lynch. But id have to look at everyone's reasons for voting. Who believed what they were saying and who was just like "cool, sounds good".

[Kmd4390]

Benmage, I disagree with your last post. I'll explain why, but first I want to know if you think I should and why.

[Kmd4390]

Dry-Fit, why is Trollie lazy scum and not lazy town? What is your read on Nero? What about Seanald?

[Kmd4390]

I don't see the issue.

[Kmd4390]

I want DrRoy lynched because I am most confident in him being scum.

There are two possibilites:
A) He is scum
B) He is non-scum (town or third party)

If he is scum, I can find his buddies tomorrow. If he isn't scum, multiple scum can probably be found on his wagon.

Both possibilities are realistic and I understand that. I've become quite a bit of a realist player. As in, I fully understand that if I go all out saying someone is scum, no matter how confident I am, I know I'm more likely to be wrong than right just based on the number of scum vs town.

That being said. DrRoy is still my strongest scum read and I see no reason to tear apart the wagon and say "OMG THERES SCUMS HERE IF IM WRONG". No, I'm dealing with my scum read first and I want to proceed from there after I see if I'm right or wrong.

Do I have other reads? Of course. As strong as my read on DrRoy? Not at all. Does this look like tunneling? Probably, but I don't give a shit. If we lynch him and he flips scum, I'll feel nice and accomplished. If he flips town, I can swallow my pride and figure out what happened.

I've found my choice for a Day 1 lynch and the only reason I can see for backing off of it would be if it didn't have support. Clearly, it does. Whether the support is townies seeing the same as me or scum laughing at how wrong I am can easily be determined with a flip. Either way, I strongly believe that we can lynch a scum Day 2 and/or Day 3 pretty easily.

[Kmd4390]

Yeah the double vote is one of my athletes. Was wondering how long it would take for someone to notice lol

[Kmd4390]

No, it's Gehrig. And no secret. It's right in the vote count

[Kmd4390]

Prosecutor, why does DrRoy have to be town for Bub and IS to be distancing?

[Kmd4390]

Prosecutor, so how/when will you determine which of them you think is the scum? /d if they were distancing like you said initially, wouldn't BOTH have to be scum?

Note to self: look up DrRoy's scum game he's talking about.

[Kmd4390]

*sigh*

Nothing to say except that I'm sad to see the DrRoy wagon losing a few votes with deadline a few days away. We should be pushing him towards a claim now. Instead, we are twiddling our thumbs and will need to rush a lynch within probably 36 hours when we realize "oh shit, deadline".

Can we get those votes back on DrRoy along with some new ones please?

[Kmd4390]

Bub or Dry-Fit maybe. But DrRoy is a STRONG preference above anyone else for me.

[Kmd4390]

DrRoy is no VI. He seems to actually understand how the game works.

[Kmd4390]

Dry-fit, I already "reexamined". That's what made me so confident in my read.

[Kmd4390]

Good to see the Roy wagon faltering. The Stepho wagon is really weak in terms of players voting him. Still like Once as a lynch.

Faltering? It's the lead wagon lol

[Kmd4390]

Scum should NK a lurker to maintain game quality and save the Mod the trouble of finding a replacement.

[Kmd4390]

*sigh*

Mod post ruins my (probably not effective anyway) attempt at getting scum to waste their NK.

[Kmd4390]

Can't wait for everyone to act like replacing in is a town tell.

[Kmd4390]

Drryoy, dry-fit, and bub top 3.

Steph scummier than once.

Love how a few people say the wagon is stalled when it's still the lead wagon. And DrRoy is still scum. I wish I had a dayvig...

[Kmd4390]

Whatever.

unvote, vote x2 steph

[Kmd4390]

Um. I'd still like to know what we are lynching before we do it. For example, if you have a cop for tonight, I want the result before you die.

Also, if this is in Day for the middle of the week, expect my activity to slow down until Friday.

[Kmd4390]

Yeah, if steph doesn't have a claim to save him, I see no other reason to unvote.

Cheery, once is town. Look at the post where he votes me. He says everyone is going to hate him that means he believes he is going against popular opinion and going to get flak for it. Yet he does it anyway. What scum would do that?

Locke, who are your scumbuddies?

[Kmd4390]

Steph, if you claim abilities that I think will benefit town, I'll probably unvote. I'm not really convinced you are scum to begin with. If you have strong abilities, I really don't want you lynched. Only reason I'm voting you is because it came down to you or a strong town read (once).

Can I at least ask this? Do you have an ability that I would be likely to unvote for if you claimed?

[Kmd4390]

But IS is town

unvote, vote Locke

Gonna vote my top scum read until there's a wagon I like and/or we are close to deadline again.

[Kmd4390]

Locke, that's a lot of neutrals. And even more scum. Only three town reads seems weird.

Cheery, I still can't see ScumOnce making that vote.

[Kmd4390]

But we are going opposite ways on this. The way I see it, if Once is scum, he's been trying to lay low and avoid spotlight. With this vote, not only is he not doing that, but he KNOWS he isn't. And he EXPECTS to be called out for it. It just doesn't make sense for Once as a scum player to make that vote. If he wanted me dead and didn't want to get flak, he could have NK'd me. If we were scumbuddies, I wasn't being voted by anyone so why bus/distance now, especially when it could put him over the top of Steph?

There's just no scenario where it makes sense.

[Kmd4390]

What's atf?

[Kmd4390]

Prosecutor, I missed the part where lock did any "serious questioning". Can you point me to it? All I see is his reads and things that are reactive rather than proactive after that. Also, he only has three town reads.

[Kmd4390]

*sigh*

Can we lynch locke now?

Hell, i'd even be up for a speedwagon on bub.

[Kmd4390]

Hold up.

Why choose that order?

[Kmd4390]

I'm more interested in the day 3 cop.

[Kmd4390]

I'd expect town to use an investigation Day 1 and then Day 4, possibly using the vengeful then if needed.

You wanted to get lynched intentionally Day 3?

[Kmd4390]

So why does 512 seem to put so much emphasis on the vengeful part of the role? If you didn't plan on being lynched, why would a Day 3 cop make sense because of an "estimated date of death". Basically, I asked why you chose Day 3 and your answer has to do with the vengeful part of the role rather than the cop part. So not wanting to be lynched doesn't fit with that.

Here's what I had in mind when I posted 509:
-Town thought process= "Sweet, cop! Day 1 for sure."
-Scum thought process= "Cop, that's useless but at least town doesn't have it. But hey, I have this vengeful. I'll stick that on Day 3 I guess"

The only thing that I thought stood in the way of this is if your athletes were just the order that you drafted them. But when you gave reasoning for the Day 2 doc (which is a point against you on it's own because you ignored the vengeful cop part of it), that went out the window.

This order for your athletes could kind of explain the refusal to claim for a while too. Only when facing death did you actually claim. I may be looking too much into this part though.

Meh. Tempted to hammer, but not entirely convinced yet. I want a few other people to weigh in.

[Kmd4390]

Ok that makes a lot more sense then. Who gets investigated? Hammer? Your choice? Do they have to be on the wagon.

[Kmd4390]

Nacho, check my ISO for a case on DrRoy aka Locke's slot.

[Kmd4390]

We got 3 days, do you guys just want to lynch a replacement slot to save the trouble? I'm leaning on sorasgoof.

I'd rather lynch the scum I'm voting.

Nobody else seems convinced they are voting scum so I'm the only one who it makes sense to follow.

[Kmd4390]

Locke, just found it weird.

We are running out of time. More Locke votes please.

[Kmd4390]

I'll give this game a look tomorrow. Thinking seanald scum, but we'll see what I find.

[Kmd4390]

Unfortunately putting this off until tomoorrow. Misremembered my girlfriend's work schedule and I don't have the free time today to look back to Day 1. When I do though, I want to look at the first DrRoy wagon, the wagon that actually lyncyed Locke after the first one died, and benmage's posts.

[Kmd4390]

The DrRoy/Locke wagon: The Rise, Fall, and Rise Again.

Chapter 1: The initial Wagon

From Page 4:
DrRoy (5): Kmd4390, OnceAndForEver, Seanald, Nero Cain

We had my vote (Post 17). My case was in post 107. In post 50, we have a "K, *votes*" by Once seemingly unprovoked. In his next few posts, he calls me obvtown and says DrRoy needs rope. However, the only reasoning he provides is why I am town, not why DrRoy is scum. Seanald jumps on after Once, reason being "agreed on the DrRoy point". Keep in mind both of these votes came before I even layed out a case. Then Nero lays a vote with no other text. Between these three players, there is a scum or two.

After I post my case,
DrRoy (6): Kmd4390, OnceAndForEver, Seanald, Nero Cain, ProsecutorGodot

Prosecutor has jumped on. He looks at my case and looks like he's found it to be a strong case. I see town intent from him. But what worries me is Once's response to the wagon. Cheery put it quite well:

You want more votes yet the ease of wagon is worrying you?

And Once's response? Basically rephrases my case almost exactly while trying to pass it off as his own. He clearly knows it too because he finishes "his" case out with a response to DrRoy's response to my case.

When I say it's my case, I get:

in fact KMD it is rather close to your case, which is much of the reason I hadn't bothered to post any of it. You seemed to be handling it quite well. I have an additional point or two to add but not much really.

There's also Bub's reaction to my case:

KMD's case made me rethink DrRoy a little, but I still read his "slips" as inexperience and not scumminess.

Scum who wants to jump on later or town who likes the case but isn't quite sure yet? We'll judge that before this post is over.

Kmd's DrRoy case is decent but not convincing. I think the point about DrRoy's reaction to the SK claim is the strongest.

I don't like how focus onceandfornever is on DrRoy. Almost everything he's posted has been about him and he's fawning over Kmd's case.

^Actually looks pretty good in hindsight.

Nearly 50 posts after my case:
DrRoy (7): Kmd4390, OnceAndForEver, Seanald, Nero Cain, ProsecutorGodot, Cheery Dog

DrRoy is at L-2. Looks kind of like a sheep vote from Cheery, but he later backs it up. Also, his response to Prosecutor saying that if DrRoy flips town the leaders of the wagon are scum, looks genuine. Cheery mentions looking at the sheep which would make himself look slightly scummy. I don't think I see CheeryScum doing that.

Chapter 2: The Wagon's Death

DrRoy (7): Kmd4390, OnceAndForEver, Seanald, Nero Cain, ProsecutorGodot, Cheery Dog
Stephoscope (3): Dry-Fit, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Bub Bidderskins

Town points to the Steph voters. It's clearly an anti-DrRoy-lynch wagon. With DrRoy being town, I don't see any reason scum would try so hard to put someone else out there as a better lynch. And if Steph is scum, there is almost 0% chance that his buddies can be found on his wagon here.

DrRoy (6): Kmd4390, OnceAndForEver, Nero Cain, ProsecutorGodot, Cheery Dog
Stephoscope (3): Dry-Fit, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Bub Bidderskins

Seanald leaves the wagon. He says DrRoy looks genuine. That's actually a likely town unvote. If Steph is scum, finding his buddies by process of elimination is going to be easy.

DrRoy (5): Kmd4390, OnceAndForEver, ProsecutorGodot, Cheery Dog

Nero is next to jump off. Worried we are "lynching inexperience". Yup, Nero goes in the town pile.

Now. Everyone jumped off after this, so let's look at their unvotes.

Once changed his vote over to me. Huh? He'd been calling me town and sheeping me and now that the wagon has died, he votes me? It looked genuine when it happened, but now I'm all WTF.

Prosecutor hops the Steph wagon seemingly for no reason. Hmm.

Cheery votes Once, seeming to just be giving up on the DrRoy wagon and choosing Once over Steph.

Recap To This Point

-Once, Seanald, and Nero jumped on BEFORE I EVEN POSTED MY CASE (1-2 scum here)
-Once looks horrible throughout the entire life of the wagon
-Prosecutor and Cheery look like town votes. However, Prosecutor's unvote isn't the best.
-Bub, Dry-fit, DDD, and Seanald are definitely NOT scum IF Steph is.
-Bub and Dry-fit are probably town regardless.
-If Steph is scum, Cheery is also scum and on that basis, Once is town in that scenario.
-Seanald and Nero look town in their unvotes

Chapter 3: The Lynch

Locke Lamora (5): Kmd4390, ProsecutorGodot, Nachomama8, Seanald

I put down an admittedly lazy vote on my top scum read because I didn't see a good wagon to jump yet. Prosecutor looks confident in deciding to "test" a wagon on Locke. Nacho (in Once's slot) votes Locke after I tell him it only makes sense to follow me, which I admit was simply my attempt to recruit a Locke vote so I'm not sure if I can fault him. Seanald calls it "shitty", but votes Locke anyway. With twice the votes as any other wagon and deadline in three days, this doesn't look so bad.

Locke Lamora (8): Kmd4390, ProsecutorGodot, Nachomama8, Seanald, Internet Stranger, Nero Cain, Dry-Fit

IS seems to be trying to find reasons to call DrRoy/Locke scummy. I thought town on him for most of the day, but this rubs me the wrong way. Nero drops another vote-only post. And Dry-Fit says I'm "getting my way". Gotta say there is a scum in this trio. I understand that it's a deadline situation, but (and I'm talking more IS and Dry-fit) what goes with those votes is iffy.

And DDD finally hammers it. His reason for doing so is shaky. He could have easily just hammered for a deadline lynch, but he decided to stretch on Locke's claim.

Conclusions

- Once/Nacho is probably scum
- Cheery is town unless Steph is scum and Once/Nacho is town
- Steph's flip would be extremely valuable.
- Prosecutor is iffy, but I'm leaning town.
- Bub and Dry-fit look town (Bub more than Dry-Fit)
- Seanald and Nero have both looked town at time and scum at others. I wouldn't be surprised if one is scum.
- IS and DDD look scummy on the lynch.
- I need to look back at Benmage at some point.

Vote Nacho

[Kmd4390]

Meh. Like I said, it looked genuine. He seemed very ok with going against popular opinion which looks townish. But looking back, it was out of nowhere and the towntell isn't enough to overlook everything else.

[Kmd4390]

Sor's defense of Trollie's play is bothering me a little. Mostly implying that it is impossible to have a read on someone who posted 3 times (or ten as Trollie did). That and the claim that Trollie "wasn't playing" when he clearly gave a few reads at the very least. Playing well? No. Staying active? No. But he was playing. And doing so with a Role PM in the back of his mind. So yeah, it's possible to have a read on him.

We will be lynching whomever has the vengeful cop on day 3

If Steph is telling the truth, this is probably Benmage, a dead townie.

Today we should be lynching from Godot, Soragoof, DDD. Nacho can be other option since his last post was really derpy.

Nacho- yes please.
Sora- I could settle on this one.
DDD- I'd lynch him over a town read, but he's near the middle of the list for me.
Prosecutor- No.

Additionally, there is very likely another townie out there who had the same thing happen the night before and knows what I'm talking about.

You claiming to be a Night 2 doc means you should remember you haven't had a chance to use the ability yet... Also, if you lost your role N1, another person wouldn't lose a role from the same power until N4.

I'm starting to think that Steph is a filthy liar and Nero is trying to help him.

Agreed on Steph. Not so much on Nero. Add me to the list of people who want to lynch Steph tomorrow.

[Kmd4390]

I couldn't honestly give a rat's ass what my predecessor did. What's worrisome is how people seem to think there was a case on him. Once again, wasn't defending him. +misrep

Yes you were. Not a misrep.

Why are you looking for townies? Why would you say "that does not give me town vibes," rather than "that gives me scum vibes?"

Is this...for real?

By being vanillaized?

This is a pretty wild theory to come from a town-aligned player who doesn't know scum's roles.

------------------

IS, what happened to the Bub hate?

----------------

Cheery, by that logic, we should never lynch anyone who claims any power ever.

--------------------

Nacho and Sora both need to eat rope.

[Kmd4390]

Ok.

[Kmd4390]

Nacho is probably town if Steph is scum just because of Cheery's vote on Once over Steph on Day 1.

Sora is probably scum regardless of Steph's alignment.

Actually.

Unvote, Vote Sora

.

If Steph is being lynched tomorrow, I wanna wait for his flip before I decide on Nacho and Cheery. Steph's flip also helps me read dry-fit, Bub, and DDD.

[Kmd4390]

sora, who is "we"? Is voting for you scummy?

[Kmd4390]

Sora, literally the only thing I remember you talking about it trollie's play and the people voting you. To me, that's scummy.

[Kmd4390]

Nacho, because benmage had a one shot ability to steal a role? And there is no evidence of a vanillaizer (which I've never seen in a game before).

[Kmd4390]

Ben is dead, IS...

[Kmd4390]

Vla until Friday or Saturday. If the game is really slow, I may be able to keep up but I have almost no time to post in that span.

-Noted

[Kmd4390]

Nacho, its mostly sora's heavy focus on defending trollies play and telling us that his play can't possibly look scum moticated rather than finding scum and then the reaction to that point being made.

[Kmd4390]

Nacho, i'd have to go back and look. I wasn't really thinking about his vote on nero.

This neighbor claim seems weird to me. Especially the part where locke isn't part of it.

[Kmd4390]

I noticed

[Kmd4390]

If it's revealed by the mod, it's pretty damn helpful.

[Kmd4390]

Back from VLA. I will catch up in the next couple of days.

[Kmd4390]

Ok I'm caught back up. Still good with a sora lynch today, steph lynch tomorrow, and next day depending on those flips.

[Kmd4390]

Still liking a Sora lynch.

[Kmd4390]

Curious to see how I was noncommital day 1 lol.

[Kmd4390]

There is a vote count at the top of the page. Sora has 7 votes which I believe is L-1

[Kmd4390]

I'm good with a hammer.

[Kmd4390]

Yeah, if not for the vengecop, Steph would have been the Day 1 lynch.

[Kmd4390]

vote steph

[Kmd4390]

Greyice, we were going to lynch steph day 1 but he claimed day 3 vengecop so we decided to wait until Day 3. It's Day 3.

[Kmd4390]

Last I knew, steph wasn't being lynched for a result. He was being spared until Day 3 for the possibilty of a result. So yeah, still good with his lynch.

[Kmd4390]

So who was scum?

I was town (obviously) with the double vote day 1/4 as I claimed. I also had babe ruth and walter payton who were both VTs.