Otherworld Mafia - Vasta - Over

[FaerieLord]

I was starting on a largish post but then decided it would be anti-town to post game-mechanic related strategy. The gist of it was that portal strategy is probably on a role by role basis and it is up for that player to decide how their actions are best spent.

This guy. He makes sense. Certain roles make sense in one place, certain roles make sense with hopping. Do not make it easier for scum to find power roles.

I would even go as far to say that I think we should devise a scheme were 1/3rd of the people every day move to the other thread. As Tierce has said, people will butt in between threads (and they should).

So, as I see it - VT have no reason to move, Scum have a reason to move (vote-rigging+maybepower), Power roles might have a reason to move. The only way we can make Power Roles move safely is by making an Imposed Movement Scheme (IMS) - Where before the end of the night, we vote for people we would like to move to the other game, either by their apparent interest in the other thread or because we might think they're scum and want to potentially deny them a nightkill (especially if their wagon isn't moving) or because we suspect they might be power roles or simply to wifom the scum and make this IMS work. Anyone who refuses to comply can be lynched.

Also,

Vote: Crypto

. His username means I hide. He's hiding something.

[FaerieLord]

Also, @NS. I agree with you, that post was horribly anti-town.

AiaFos: Korts

[FaerieLord]

(PS: IMS can only work if the other thread agree to it too, or we'd end up with threads that have way too high / low a number)

[FaerieLord]

That's fair enough, although I still think his word choice was very unfortunate. What do you think of IMS? Or any sort of forced immigration?

[FaerieLord]

Toon Fighter

Scum probing the waters.


I also

FoS Korts

. He seems bound and determined to decrease information available for town. While some degree of old-fogeyness is expected from him, I don't think he'd totally ignore all possibilities to decrease confusion and increase information.

Did you mean to add Vote before Toon Fighter? The random bolding seemed very atypical. Well, even if you didn't

Vote: Toon Fighter

. Scum-probing

@Roflcopter (and to a certain extent Vi): It's getting the game moving above everything and displaying an attempt to gain the most advantage for this for town seems beneficial, at least to me.

[FaerieLord]

Still can't see what my slip is. Once people point it out, I might answer :shrug:
Also, Bastion seems town, although his arguments against meta are bollocks. NS seems Idk? (don't have a meta on him)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@AIATierce

: While I did finish uni, I will still be working 9-5 this summer every day bar weekends. But I have days like yesterday and today off, and I like this game's setup.

Also,

AIAimplosion's

post made me realize that my plan is bollocks. Especially since @

AIAMOD

Cyb, is the mafia night kill factional, i.e. can every member of the mafia portal and the group still submit a kill?

No comment.

Forgot that scum might have kills be factional abilities. Never mind, everyone can portal at their hearts content, then.

Also, I'm very much agreeing with Tierce right now with her vote on RomanNumerals.

[FaerieLord]

Still can't see what my slip is. Once people point it out, I might answer :shrug:
----------------------------------------------------------------

Well, I don't know what it was, but I know what it IS.


VOTE: FaerieLord

What? I can't see what the slip is. Once people point out what they think the slip is, I'll tell them what I meant? Not getting where you're going with this.

@Crypto: the might and the shrugging was because I was not (and still am not) concerned about people thinking I slipped, because, well, I didn't. All I've seen is panzer's semi-explanation (he quoted half my post), and I still can't see it at all. So if people think a non existent slip that I can't even see is scummy, what can I do but shrug?

@Bastion: What's artificial? I think your mafia theory posts are bollocks but I think your reasoning is sound?

No one else has an issue with faerielord thinking the fact that he scumslipped is a possibility?

Kill it now.

No, I don't think I scumslipped. I think people think I scumslipped. Read my post again - If I can't see a scumslip, why the hell would I think that I might have scumslipped?

too many people in this game seem to actually think they are mind-reading geniuses who can peg scum after four posts; be smarter.

I can only see one who did it.

PEdit: Vasta 79 - I actually think Tierce is trying to back off what she was saying by pushing herself to Vi. Even Vi noted it a few posts back. I definitely view Tierce as scummy. Quick flip-flop after one post, avoiding the previous line of thought by quoting this thread. Yeah.

[FaerieLord]

case on FL:

FL tries to look all townish by suggesting the best way to hunt scum. Problem is the idea is terrible, and doesn’t help town at all. Methinks he thought he’d get away with convincing us it was A-OK.

Giving me way too much credit there. I genuinely thought it was a good idea when I wrote it out, but when people pointed out that scum abilities might actually be factional, it made my plan absolutely shit. Hence why I dropped it

This is a no-content sheep that isn’t even about Vasta

Not really a sheep. It was something I wanted to say, but NS said it before. I don't think NS is particularly townie, but I agreed with him on one thing

Feels the need to justify the vote with the “scum-probing” comment. Town FL doesn’t give a shit if ppl think he is justified. If ppl ask about it, he can explain later. just realized amrun already said why the vote in his post, so yeah, extra reason there's no reason for town to explain.

Then there is the slip, I wouldn’t vote for him slowly on this for the mere reason that I should hope FL wouldn’t be this careless in posting. The slip, as I understand it, is that you concede that your goal was to “display an attempt” to advantage town. Basically he says he was trying to look town.

Wait what? Of course I justify my vote. Why wait for people to ask about me why I voted? So wait, you're not town then? You're voting for me, but Town Trollie doesn't care if ppl think he is justified. If ppl ask about it, he can explain later. Yeaaaaaahhh....

Also, your interpretation of my slip is different from Panzer's. Can someone decide what my slip was? Thanks.

Still can't see what my slip is. Once people point it out, I might answer :shrug:
Also, Bastion seems town, although his arguments against meta are bollocks. NS seems Idk? (don't have a meta on him)

Bad response about the slip. He’s too interested in figuring it out and answering it. town would know that the slip was either something someone misinterpreted or just nonexistant.

Why do you keep talking about town like you're not part of it? Also what? I'm too interested? Do you know what the word shrug means? Do you know what the modal verb "might" means? You read that post as too interested? You're deluded.

Or knows the answer because he is scum...

Or making a non-sequitur to make it seem like your case isn't bollocks

Oh, one quick comment: probably the best real case made against FaerieLord yet was made by Korts over in the other thread.

Based on this, FaerieLord is the one who comes off the scummiest. He rides the wave of suspicion he sees heading my way with a stark claim of the initial post being "horribly anti-town", but dismounts at the first sign of opposition, maintaining a transitional air by saying my "word choice was very unfortunate". This is not mere wishy-washiness, there's no room for movement between extremes like that in an argument.

I'd like to hear Fairy respond to that.

I partially answered this. I wasn't riding anything. I just read it a bit later than everyone. Also, I haven't really dismounted it; I still think his post was very anti-town and that his word choice was very unfortunate (I don't see these as exclusives?), but I'd rather test the waters more to be honest. I don't like committing early to votes. I tried it in my last (two) game(s), but it's just not me. That said, I still think that post screamed very anti-town.

The problem further being that if I continue talking about Korts too, I'll have people like Trollie complaining that I'm not even referring to Vasta. Korts is still there, but I'm not going to pursue him or Tierce (I do think she's scummier right now); that's Aia's job. My job is pursuing the guy below me here a bit more.

To be honest, my vote on FL was mostly wagoning and going with the flow. From the few posts in the page I voted in, he seemed like a good choice for a vote, so I voted. I didn't expect to get attacked for that, or that the wagon would change to me. I know, it's an anti-town thing to do, but it's the truth. I wasn't thinking much about the game at that point, and the FL wagon seemed like a nice place to be while I read the thread more.

Now, I'v read Trollie's case on FL, and he actually DOES look like scum. Also, (but I'm not certain on this, and want a flip to tell), I think NS might be on his scum team. So

vote: FL

(this time based on Trollie's case, and I don't care if FL is at L-1 now or not)

So ok, you voted for me despite knowing it's an anti-town action? Why the hell would you purposefully commit an anti-town action? Why would you want to park a vote despite admitting not reading the thread?

Side note, what did you like about Trollie's case?

Aia thoughts:
@Korts: Repeating what I said to yos. I didn't dismount, I just didn't pursue. I acknowledged why he disagreed and saw his logic, but stated that I still thought he was wrong.
@iama: If your point is against the word displaying, then meh. I use displaying like I use illustrating like I use showing: They're words I use to explain a point. Also, you're misreading my post. It was more of a "Show me where and I'll tell you what I meant, if it's not stupid." I mean, don't get me wrong, I still think your "slip" was stupid, but I think I owed you an explanation since there was a wagon on a slip, that nobody seemed to notice before what you said now.

I mean, I find it quite curious how quickly a wagon formed on my slip, but this is the first time I'm seeing a complain about the word display. Most people just didn't have an interpretation, they just ran straight to the wagon. But alas.

That is all.

[FaerieLord]

case on FL:

FL tries to look all townish by suggesting the best way to hunt scum. Problem is the idea is terrible, and doesn’t help town at all. Methinks he thought he’d get away with convincing us it was A-OK.

Giving me way too much credit there. I genuinely thought it was a good idea when I wrote it out, but when people pointed out that scum abilities might actually be factional, it made my plan absolutely shit. Hence why I dropped it

This is a no-content sheep that isn’t even about Vasta

Not really a sheep. It was something I wanted to say, but NS said it before. I don't think NS is particularly townie, but I agreed with him on one thing

Feels the need to justify the vote with the “scum-probing” comment. Town FL doesn’t give a shit if ppl think he is justified. If ppl ask about it, he can explain later. just realized amrun already said why the vote in his post, so yeah, extra reason there's no reason for town to explain.

Then there is the slip, I wouldn’t vote for him slowly on this for the mere reason that I should hope FL wouldn’t be this careless in posting. The slip, as I understand it, is that you concede that your goal was to “display an attempt” to advantage town. Basically he says he was trying to look town.

Wait what? Of course I justify my vote. Why wait for people to ask about me why I voted? So wait, you're not town then? You're voting for me, but Town Trollie doesn't care if ppl think he is justified. If ppl ask about it, he can explain later. Yeaaaaaahhh....

Also, your interpretation of my slip is different from Panzer's. Can someone decide what my slip was? Thanks.

Still can't see what my slip is. Once people point it out, I might answer :shrug:
Also, Bastion seems town, although his arguments against meta are bollocks. NS seems Idk? (don't have a meta on him)

Bad response about the slip. He’s too interested in figuring it out and answering it. town would know that the slip was either something someone misinterpreted or just nonexistant.

Why do you keep talking about town like you're not part of it? Also what? I'm too interested? Do you know what the word shrug means? Do you know what the modal verb "might" means? You read that post as too interested? You're deluded.

Or knows the answer because he is scum...

Or making a non-sequitur to make it seem like your case isn't bollocks

Oh, one quick comment: probably the best real case made against FaerieLord yet was made by Korts over in the other thread.

Based on this, FaerieLord is the one who comes off the scummiest. He rides the wave of suspicion he sees heading my way with a stark claim of the initial post being "horribly anti-town", but dismounts at the first sign of opposition, maintaining a transitional air by saying my "word choice was very unfortunate". This is not mere wishy-washiness, there's no room for movement between extremes like that in an argument.

I'd like to hear Fairy respond to that.

I partially answered this. I wasn't riding anything. I just read it a bit later than everyone. Also, I haven't really dismounted it; I still think his post was very anti-town and that his word choice was very unfortunate (I don't see these as exclusives?), but I'd rather test the waters more to be honest. I don't like committing early to votes. I tried it in my last (two) game(s), but it's just not me. That said, I still think that post screamed very anti-town.

The problem further being that if I continue talking about Korts too, I'll have people like Trollie complaining that I'm not even referring to Vasta. Korts is still there, but I'm not going to pursue him or Tierce (I do think she's scummier right now); that's Aia's job. My job is pursuing the guy below me here a bit more.

To be honest, my vote on FL was mostly wagoning and going with the flow. From the few posts in the page I voted in, he seemed like a good choice for a vote, so I voted. I didn't expect to get attacked for that, or that the wagon would change to me. I know, it's an anti-town thing to do, but it's the truth. I wasn't thinking much about the game at that point, and the FL wagon seemed like a nice place to be while I read the thread more.

Now, I'v read Trollie's case on FL, and he actually DOES look like scum. Also, (but I'm not certain on this, and want a flip to tell), I think NS might be on his scum team. So

vote: FL

(this time based on Trollie's case, and I don't care if FL is at L-1 now or not)

So ok, you voted for me despite knowing it's an anti-town action? Why the hell would you purposefully commit an anti-town action? Why would you want to park a vote despite admitting not reading the thread?

Side note, what did you like about Trollie's case?

Aia thoughts:
@Korts: Repeating what I said to yos. I didn't dismount, I just didn't pursue. I acknowledged why he disagreed and saw his logic, but stated that I still thought he was wrong.
@iama: If your point is against the word displaying, then meh. I use displaying like I use illustrating like I use showing: They're words I use to explain a point. Also, you're misreading my post. It was more of a "Show me where and I'll tell you what I meant, if it's not stupid." I mean, don't get me wrong, I still think your "slip" was stupid, but I think I owed you an explanation since there was a wagon on a slip, that nobody seemed to notice before what you said now.

I mean, I find it quite curious how quickly a wagon formed on my slip, but this is the first time I'm seeing a complain about the word display. Most people just didn't have an interpretation, they just ran straight to the wagon. But alas.

That is all.

[FaerieLord]

@FL: re your aia concerns: I believe we've come to the conclusion that you should comment on discussions in the other thread and just not go toe to toe with them or whatever. Anyway, who are you suspicious of now...?

I already said this. Tierce mostly (but I have yet to read the developments) and Korts, but less so.
Also, "I believe we've come to the conclusion that you..." First of all, excuse me? You? Why not we? Do you have a different ruleset? Additionally, we clearly haven't, as you can see shmugen's post below

@FL: I liked your Trollie case deconstruction, but I dislike the 'that's Aia's job' part of the Korts read. While my reads on the other side aren't as developed, they still exist and it's still up to me to chase them. No skirting of responsibility, mister.

No continuation here Last Survivor. I think the consensus is "Do whatever you fucking want," since nobody seems to want to cooperate a plan.

@Vi in Voweltown:

I actually really want this to be multiball because {Tierce, redFF, roflcopter} can theoretically be wiped off the map in one cycle. And that would alleviate any concerns I will ever have for the rest of my career

about being a part of the least successful scumteam ever.

WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS

/reads Aia: Vi commented on it and said she finds nothing wrong. That is scummy, and an unfortunate choice of words.

I voted you because it seemed the safest thing to do at the time. I didn't have much time to put in the game, and the wagon on you seemed like a good wagon. So, I voted, trying to get some more time to read the thread carefully and (if needed) move my vote to a better place.

About Trollie's case, I think that you answering about the slip two times IS scummy, even if you tried to seem disinterested in your responses. Plus, I agree with his comment on your vote on me. Quoting Amrun would be enough, you wouldn't have to add the "scum probing" that you had quoted. Quoting and repeating makes me think you'd like to blend in, and not have people bug you about the justification/ lack thereof.
Finally, I don't know if you suggested the plan to screw town or because you didn't know better, but I don't think that is an indication of scumminess. At least in my eyes, a scum would refrain from making anti town suggestions precisely because, if found out, they'd be in danger. So, I don't give you scum points for that part.[/quote]

How is voting the largest wagon to L-1 the safest place? How?
Also, why is answering concerns about my play scummy? Tell me, what would have done?
Also, I added the scum probing part because I was not sure if Amrun meant to vote Toon Fighter or not, although I thought she did. Hence I added it for clarification in case she didn't and I did.

That case is bad.

But willing to hammer FaerieLord and he should claim.

Hammer FL? What are you on about? I'm not even close to a lynch.
Also, PEDIT: glad to see Trollie who has the "premier case" on me, thinks I'm actually Toon Fighter. That gives his case credential.

[FaerieLord]

That said,

Unvote

for now still, cause doc is doc.

[FaerieLord]

Any CCs on TF's doc claim?

Also, "I believe we've come to the conclusion that you..." First of all, excuse me? You? Why not we? Do you have a different ruleset? Additionally, we clearly haven't, as you can see shmugen's post below

When I said "you," I didn't mean you specifically, relax. I meant "you" in general...

No continuation here Last Survivor. I think the consensus is "Do whatever you fucking want," since nobody seems to want to cooperate a plan.

That's...fine. No need to get so angry about it.

I'm not angry at all. Sorry if it came off biting, I didn't mean it that way.

UNVOTE: Faerie

VOTE: roflcopter

NS is still town guys

Glad you're not justifying your votes now. Sticking to town play, I see.

[FaerieLord]

I misread #207 as you. You're not at L-1. Woops.

VOTE: FaerieLord

Thoughhhhhhhh. Eh. My conviction on you wanes with each passing day.

Also, I forgot to quote this post. That's good logic.
Conviction wanes, votes anyway. Just make sure to point at your fence with your fingers too.

[FaerieLord]

@Aia:
Tierce: ""X is X" means very very very little. Do you believe the claim? Why?" - That's a stupid question. If I believe he's lying, then the best action to do would be to leave him alive for a few nights and see if scum target him, if I believe he's not lying, then not lynching a doctor is a good idea. Whatever the scenario, your question fishes for information that does not benefit town, because whatever the scenario, unvoting was the correct play.

Yeah, I'm still ok with the Tierce lynch.

[FaerieLord]

VOTE: Faerielord

The "defend myself by making everything you do suspicious" tactic that he's been using lately is scummy.

Also, he didn't answer one of the questions I asked in #176 and that makes me sad. He should

probably

answer that.

Not sure what you mean by "defend..." Elaborate
Also, sorry, missed that question: From Vasta: I found ToonFighter scummy, and still do, but voting him is not a good idea (as I have answered Tierce). I'm trying to get a new read now, but I find Trollie the worst, mostly cause of his horrible attempt at justifying riding my wagon (saying my justification was scummy), getting off when he saw it was not profitable, and then tried finding a new one. Which reminds me

Vote: Trollie

found faerie scum!

here is iso from another game

he's more polite then faerie here. But that could be down to early day 1 pressure.

but early day 1 pressure does tend to result in the "defending myself by making everything you do suspicious" in some players town or scum, I'd lean town just because he doesnt seem to be focusing it.

meanwhile

unvote

This politeness / rudeness thing is kinna crap. Does it occur to all of you that people are polite / rude depending on their mood? Today is a national holiday here in Malta, so I'm in a pretty good fucking mood, so I'll probably be more polite. Meanwhile, the last four days were some of the most hectic work days I have had in my life, and I've worked in ER, so naturally I was stressed and a bit more on edge.

Look at more recent games; even there does my mood fluctuate. For example, look at myk's un-continued game (due to the crash). You will see me pretty pissy as town (because mastin is a fucktard). So yeah, deducting my politeness / rudeness to meta is silly. I am human, I have moods. I do not play mafia like a robot analyser, I play it like a man! /hrrng.

[FaerieLord]

When you defend yourself you do something that makes your attacker look suspicious, or just dumb. See your PEDIT response to TheTrollie and your response to Amrun in #212 and #240 respectively.

Oh, with Amrun, I was implying dumbness. With trollie, scuminess (which i back up with a vote).
That said, I don't think Amrun's dumb (see: this post further down), just that her case / points are dumb, and she wants to park her vote somewhere for now till she gets a better idea who to vote.

@SB: No, but I like to think I did. My point about moods still stands, however.

This is a good post!

Let's say something that vaguely casts aspersions on one of my attackers without calling her scum outright or discussing whether the post had scum motivations!

yeah.

Not calling you scum, I'm just saying your new justification for your vote makes absolutely no sense with your following sentence, and looks like you're fence-sitting until you can get a new idea. Why would you vote for someone who your convictions towards are waning? Especially knowing that you'll be V/LA. It just feels like sideline involvement. Normally, I'd have found that scummy, but the rest of your play has seemed very towny, so I just think you're being a bit lazy pre-V/LA (which you even admit in your interaction with Yos, re: TrollieSkim)

No one seems to have commented on my last post, so let me be clear: TheTrollie looks really scummy to me right now. He's been voting without giving reasons all game, and when I asked him about one of his votes (the rofl vote) he didn't give any specifics, but said that

Didn't comment directly, but I agree. Especially since he tried calling me out for giving a reason for my vote while trying to give reason for the first time to his votes.

[FaerieLord]

FL, I'm not "pre-v/la." I've been on v/la since the game started. I'm just transitioning from partial v/la to full v/la. So yes - my attention is not as full as it should be.

Sorry, pre-full-V/la then.

Everyone should note that I'm currently doing two things as a mafia player: Trying to actively change my meta by playing more "towny" no matter my alignment; and actually paring down the number of games I'm in simultaneously in order to give each game its proper level of activity.

...

Either FaerieLord or Trollie is a good lynch for today.

unvote

Vote: FaerieLord

Changing your meta is fine and dandy, but why are you pointing this out now after people have been talking about NS-meta for pages? I figured the best time to post that would either be 1) in the beginning 2) never.

Also, why is your vote on me again? Any new reasons?
Also, are you not interested in pursuing Panzer anymore, or do you like comfy wagons? Hell, you say you'd be fine with a Trollie lynch too, just in case.

[FaerieLord]

NS: Answer me. Why did you back off panzer? Answer me, why did you choose me over Trollie, despite finding us both scummy. Answer me, why do you find Trollie and I scummy in the first place?

[FaerieLord]

Did Vi just hammer 5 days before deadline? With people still not fully contributing in that thread, with korts raising new issues with reg: Tierce?
Why?

[FaerieLord]

Especially since it won't even force a night. Just 5 days of awkwardness in that thread. There is nothing gained from an early lynch. Just removed options (and security of getting her lynch, as opposed to a different one). Ugh, either Vi's ego is enormous, or her silliness.

[FaerieLord]

Vi unvoted in the other thread, dude.

My bad. Misread it.

FL thinking a hammer was dropped is indicative of some sort of nervousness.

@FL: Was that just an overreaction? A hammer in the other thread can't really have been so bad that you had to double post and say things about Vi's ego or whatever.

Lol, you're really stretching for a case aren't you?
Also no, it's not an overreaction. I still stand by saying that a hammer would have been bad and that Vi has a large ego. That said, I apologize cause I simply misread it. /shrug.

[FaerieLord]

@FL: You're doing the "defend by making the other person look suspicious" thing again.
@Peta: Not really. But there's a way to differentiate between the two (i.e, if the nervousness seems feigned) and it was scummy. I didn't expect him to stand by his statements when I asked so meh.

Well yes, cause your attack is stupid as fuck. It's a ginormous stretch, and you're tunnelling like hell. You seem fixated to try and make things I do as scummy, when you yourself admit that you didn't expect me to stand by my statement cause I obviously misread.

When you try arguing that a person who misread a sentence is scum by account of nervousness, you're really trying way too hard to find something. Even Vi passed a statement along the lines of "what does this say about FL's alignment". Except, while i'm willing to chalk that down to Vi's character (she reacted negatively as well when I noted what Amrun noted), with you it just seems like a desperate attempt to make a mountain of a molehill

[FaerieLord]

Not completely convinced about the NS wagon tbh. The only thing I've genuinely disliked about his play is his "meta-change excuse", which read like an excuse more than an explanation.

[FaerieLord]

AIA: MoS wagon is meh. It just reads like lurker-pressure. I still very much prefer the Tierce one.

[FaerieLord]

So you have no scum read on Panzer, no scum read on Trollie, and a scumread on me based on one point in 14 pages?

[FaerieLord]

Had a hectic few days at work too (but on the bright side, was given kazakhi chocolate today, which made my day!)
I will read both threads tomorrow morning. After sleep.

[FaerieLord]

Ok, this got interesting. There isn't a better time to say this so: Mimic no. 4 here.
If you want to ask me questions about the role to confirm that I have it too, go right ahead.

[FaerieLord]

Also, that said. I still kinna agree with Panzer with regards to us not being town for sure. I can explain why, but I'd be treading really closely to pm-quoting, which is meh.
This is also why I tried devising that plan in the beginning. I had a power role that I thought was unique and very powerful and wanted to create a way to abuse it in both threads.

[FaerieLord]

On a more serious note, I don't quite buy Faerielords claim. It came a bit late.

No other activity on site, feel free to check. Also was not prompted to claim, but I did anyway.
Also,

Unvote

This said, how viable would a 2/3 player scum team without kill, but with a mimic be? The mimic could transfer to the other thread and try to get a kill from the other scum team.
Ugh, outguessing the mod is hard. This game feels like there's too much innovation going on.

[FaerieLord]

Also,

Vote:Shmu

That said, I'd take TF too. His claim sticks out like the lollipop guild at an elderly home.

AIA: I disagree with Tierce. I was the leading wagon, I would have claimed anyway. Even if my claim dissolved and re-emerged tomorrow or D3 or D4, claiming then would be fucking retarded. Claiming Mimic now is null, claiming Mimic at any other point in the game could very well be scummy. Correct action was correct.

@TF: Read the other thread. It's a No-Lynch.

Also, wait, you're saying that Panzer, BBMolla, NS and I are all at the very least semi-scummy?
You know what,

Unvote, Vote TF

Apart from missing the fact that BBMolla, reassured Panzer he was town, saying he saw where the doubt was. What I also find somewhat strange is that you didn't mention that your wincon was ambiguous. I very much doubt that we're four Neutrals. Additionally, the fact that you're unwilling to discuss these new discoveries dismissing everything as "overkill" and saying you'd rather just lynch me and get done with it. Yeah, diescumdie.

[FaerieLord]

You do realize that mimic is one of the shittiest roles to fakeclaim right?
I have to produce results tomorrow now.

Also, why is 3 mimics ok, but 4 mimics "just hopping". I'd have said, before this game, that 2 mimics is a mimic too many.
Also, jumping on the TF wagon is not fracturing wagons more.

4, 2, 2 becomes - 3, 3, 2. Smallest wagon size remains the same; as does amount of wagons?

[FaerieLord]

Here's a question. What happens if a mimic targets a mimic who targets a power role? Mimics, you might want to ask the mod that. We may be able to run a chain of mimics to confirm all of their roles (although not their alignments).

Well, we probably would gain mimic. That's actually a good plan.
To answer your next question, we cannot use the ability during the same night we get it. Also, once we get an ability, we lose the previous ability. But yeah, I'd be very willing to circlejerk with the other mimics to see if they gain mimic too. That said, it doesn't confirm mimic-town, just rolecops all of us.

Also, not quite sure why people are voting NS. He started this chain, so yeah.
So yeah, still doubting TF's claim, mostly due to the fact that he didn't mention his status ambiguity. It either means that all mimics are neutral, or that he was hiding something.

[FaerieLord]

Here's a question. What happens if a mimic targets a mimic who targets a power role? Mimics, you might want to ask the mod that. We may be able to run a chain of mimics to confirm all of their roles (although not their alignments).

Well, we probably would gain mimic. That's actually a good plan.
To answer your next question, we cannot use the ability during the same night we get it. Also, once we get an ability, we lose the previous ability. But yeah, I'd be very willing to circlejerk with the other mimics to see if they gain mimic too. That said, it doesn't confirm mimic-town, just rolecops all of us.

Also, not quite sure why people are voting NS. He started this chain, so yeah.
So yeah, still doubting TF's claim, mostly due to the fact that he didn't mention his status ambiguity. It either means that all mimics are neutral, or that he was hiding something.

If we want to plan something to confirm the mimics and/or the doctor, we don't have much time.

The only mimic claim I have any real doubt about is yours, FL. Let me ask; is there another mimic who's willing to target FL to test his claim? We only need 1 volunteer, and we should work it out before day ends. We also need at least 1 person to test the doc claim, although if more then 1 mimic becomes a doctor that's fine.

If you mimic a role, do you keep that role for the rest of the game, or is it only for the next night?

Unvote, Vote: Schmugen

So Yos, the best plan would be to have two mimics on me, and two mimics on TF. If we only leave one on me, scum might kill him.
So, how about Panz and I on TF & BBMolla and NS on me.

[FaerieLord]

Never mind, switch Panz with NS, since he wants to TF.

[FaerieLord]

Should mimics claim who they mimicked

No.

MoS also moved.

Also I'm willing to lynch Faerielord. Scum mimic motherfucker

Yeah, because as scum I would have known about the town PMs ambiguity. If there's another scum mimic, it'd be NS.

oh thanks for letting us know you're the third, this will be the easiest game ever

yos is fucking OBVTOWN for the end of day yesterday and while there is a possibility that NS is scum he's low priority on the list

Yeah, Yos is pretty obvtown here. I'm curious to hear why WoMC considered him scum o.0

[FaerieLord]

[quote=Tierce]Can't recall if this question was asked to the mods (it's mentioned in FL's post above), so, mimics: what happens if you target another mimic? Do you get a copy of their own mimicked action, or do you get 'mimic'?[/quote]

Now it's potentially irrelevant. All mimics targetted someone, so we might have a PR (such as TF's healer). I think the gained ability is the priority one, although as I think I've said, we retain mimic still. That's why I was willing to circlejerk before, but I wouldn't circlejerk now
Additionally, to continue with your "blue" list. I doubt BB is blue too. Schmugen looked unsure what to do with his claim, and I think if they were scum together, they'd have talked out what to do when claiming time comes. Schmugen's claim was terrible, showing lack of planning which would have happened if there were two mimics in one team.

Also, proposing to just call the scum groups blue and red. I will use scum and mafia interchangeably ;;

PS: Can't see why MoS is town?

[FaerieLord]

PS: AIA, please note NumberCat's redirection instead of addressing the issue. Thankyou <3

[FaerieLord]

Tierce what if I moved you

?

Did you?
Also, the "MoS clearance" is a bit shit, but he's still not the lynch today.

[FaerieLord]

I think voting Sir Bastion because of the Schmugen vote is silly. NS one, I can (somewhat) get, but not the Schmugen one. Almost everyone on that wagon was voting based on "It's the best option for the time we have left" because it was not an empty wagon. Throwing myself under the bus here, but that's why I voted. The choices were NS, Schmugen or I, and I voted Schmugen, cause I had a slight town read on NS and well obvtown on myself, so Schmug was the way to go.

[FaerieLord]

i mean, you tell me who you think is scum and i'll tell you why you're wrong

the remaining scum are very likely in bastion/weapons/lastsurvivor, legit. outside possibility of a bussin' buddy but we will cross that bridge when we come to it

Slight contradiction in the two.

That said, I'd very much lynch Weapons. Partially cause Trollie was terrible, and partially cause that case on Yos was hilarious.
I'm still not convinced with Bastion. More than anything I think he's flailing with play styles he's not used to, and I don't see flailing as necessarily scum

[FaerieLord]

Oooh boy, three pages of full snark because MoS is an idiot.

Ok, so now that bastion is conf town, Tierced asked me why I wasn't voting. The answer to that is - I forgot. I would be voting WoMC if it mattered. I have already stated that I found Trollie scummy, and WoMC did nothing to change it, but rather aggravate it (with comments such as the Mod-person-switch)

Town
Rofl
SirB
Yos
peta
BB
Panzer
Quadz

Null
Amrun
NS
LastSurvivor
MoS
Tierce

Scum
WoMC

SirB - My (and peta's, I figure) biggest problem with you is that you spent way too much time setup speculating and not enough scumhunting. Can you do a similar list to mine? Or at least, Null-scum and Scum? (Ps: explain why)

[FaerieLord]

Yeah, it's not even really WIFOM. Doing such a stupid play as scum would be mental.
Also, people need to stop blaming Sir Bastion "of being scum as town" at this point, accept the mislynch, and move on. Amrun, who do you think is scum now?
(@LS: Yeah ISOed, found them. Lost them amongst the entire shitstorm of posts)

[FaerieLord]

Ok, so tomorrow, I'd be really happy with an Amrun lynch too, even though Trollie's the priority.

[FaerieLord]

his day 1 he comes across incredibly fake in most of his posts. He claimed mimic which with shmugen's and toon's flip and my upcoming flip makes him actually quite likely to be scum.

His day 2 has been mixed he has some good interactions and some awful ones like at one point claiming he has been cleared by the ambiguity pm when he wasnt. Because of the runaway wagon and the quickhammer though it's very easy for scum to make themselves look productive when most of his comments at 40/40 hindsight

(such as his explanation as to why I was lynched which is sensible explanation if only it was stated during the wagon rather then after the lynch.

So I'd lean scum on him.

First, sidenote: Not sure how schmu, yours and toon's flip make me more likely to be scum. Also, fake is not a reason. If I say a photo is fake, I should add "I can tell from the pixels".

Bolded is a silly statement - petapan said the same thing except a bit rudely
"it's day 2 and sir bastion has 0 legitimate scum reads and has not had any all game. every post he makes, every single one, is pointless pandering bullshit. i can only assume people are automatically tuning out his sheer whitenoise posting and that's why his awfulness is being ignored. "

And saying my posts were 40/40 hindsight, when I spent all day saying you're not scum and even saying why I didn't think you're scum (such as the flailing amongst short-posters, when you're a block-of-texter) is noteworthy too.

Also, why Amrun? Cause she lynched you and she'd doing the exact same thing you're doing. I have yet to see a useful Amrun post.
Also, note her interaction with the Schmu wagon

"I don't think Shmugen is scum, though, or I would put my vote there. The follower claim just felt genuine. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'll do it at deadline, but it's not ideal."

Somewhat suspect considering she didn't even move at deadline and kept her vote on you.
She also fence sat on my wagon, where the post where she said that her read of me as scum is waning, but she votes me. That one was, and remains, pure bliss. Also, when she asked me to claim, without knowing the state of my wagon. Oh and recently, her justification of your lynch where she said you're still scum, despite being town.

So yeah, my reasons for Amrun right there.

[FaerieLord]

@SirB

1. Toon was a fulltime healer which means to balance the huge number of mimics in this game, we need a substantial number of scum mimics

2. Shmu confirmed we have scum mimics

3. I will flip town mimic which means the likely hood of more then 1 more town mimic remaining greatly diminishes and seeing as Panzer has a stronger case then you, bbmolla and NS to being this town mimic

therefore with these 3 pieces of info the chances of you being scum greatly increases. I didnt say it made you scum, it just improved the odds.

Ok, fair enough

Fake is a reason when you discussing personalities/relationships, it's not when you discussing objects.

I see absolutely no difference. Fake is a subjective adjective, and I still don't see how my role-pm ambiguity makes me fake. Sure, you can argue that what I said is wrong, and that much of the argument I can get, but I still cannot see how it is fake.

Petapan made that comment while my wagon was still rolling (I was at L-3 at the time) It was a stupid comment which will bite him the ass later on because if he ever does correctly push for a wagon on scum in day 3 then they have plenty of ammo to show how very wrong and very stupid his wagons can be and put water on such a wagon gaining strength.

Your comment on the other hand is sensible and coherent, but it came after the hammer, so it's motive cannot be seen as town as scum have just of much of a motive to say it as town. Which is the difference between yours and peta's. What is the motive?

It was not a stupid comment. He was right about it, I just didn't feel it made you scum. Also, a mislynch does not make someone unreliable all of a sudden. Even with your mislynch, from what I can gather most people still consider peta to be obvtown.
The motive was mostly to try and end the fury that was those three pages. Just you shouting at peta that he mislynched, and peta shouting at you for being scummy. I tried to get the conversation back on track by talking about my reads, asking about your reads (even though you had already posted them, but I missed them through the trash of post lynch), and tried to help you make sense of your lynch, since you seemed to completely miss peta's argument.

Ahh yes, the grand total of 2 posts where you made sideway comments that you thought I wasnt scum.
It's interesting that before I am lynched you talk about me like I'm some kid in the room, but after I lynch you start directing things to me.

Ok, apart from sideway comments, what did you expect me to do?
I said I didn't think you're scum, I said why I didn't think you're scum, and I offered a better alternative wagon (Trollie). What else did you want me to do?

Also, I had nothing to direct at you while you were alive. I thought you were null, you thought I was null (lean-on-scum). Now you're conf-town, so addressing you becomes much more interesting.

[FaerieLord]

I'm curious too. Why hasn't Tierce been prodded?

[FaerieLord]

Tierce, what were you getting with those posts? Most people in this thread don't even strongly suspect you...? I think I'm the only one that has pushed against you in this thread.

[FaerieLord]

Because Tierce is here and hasn't reread, and isn't particularly enthused with our latest addition. Good thing she's probably scum.

Oh noes!

Tierce, I was referring to these posts.
But this extended twilight is really unfair for everyone. I feel that most of the reads are more geared towards boredom, rather than town/scum reads. And the fact that we have a few people V/LA at the same time all the time doesn't help a lot either.

[FaerieLord]

I agree with yosarian2 too.

[FaerieLord]

Panzer, read.

(For your help, Tammy never switched threads. She's replacing. Also, Tierce already said she didn't switch but was switched).
That said,

Vote: Tammy

[FaerieLord]

Post-Edit: Oh, Tierce went back. My bad for the second part. First part still stands.
TrollieSlot is still obvscum

[FaerieLord]

Post-Edit: Oh, Tierce went back. My bad for the second part. First part still stands.
TrollieSlot is still obvscum

If Trollie is scum why are you voting for me?

...you're kidding me right? Have you read who you replaced from?

what the actual fuck

Also, this.

[FaerieLord]

@Tammy: You boil down my case to "points of confusion", then you link to 253, which has even more reasons. Oh and also my post agreeing with Yos2, which you have also quoted. There is more reason, clearly.
But here, it's Sunday, you deserve a run-down!

Trollie:
0, 1: Fluff
2: His scum list consists of the 3 main "wagons" and crypto (who you yourself admitted is obvtown). Rofl, Toon and Me as scum show an obvious attempt to scumlurk by casting suspicion on all of us, until.
3: He votes for the largest wagon, me
4: Oh, and here's his case:
a) Big stretch, saying I had a master-plan to lead town astray, yet I posted my reasons later (I thought I was a unique mimic, lol)
b) Argues about no-content; has had no content this game
c) "Town FL doesn't give a shit if ppl think he is justified. If ppl ask about it, he can explain later"; Since Trollie justified without being asked, does that make him Scum?
d) Argues the slip, won't even bother
e) Apparently, defending yourself as town is also scummy.
f) This one's especially hilarious; again my master plan into action.
5: fluff
6: This confusion is relevant cause he thought I was healer, yet he didn't even unvote. Why would you purposefully lynch a healer?
7: Votes rofl; at least this time he's Town Trollie as he didn't give a reason - also note, this was around when my wagon died
8: Second part is terrible: Votes rofl, Yos calls him out, explains that his read is now null (fencesitting his own god-damn vote); Also says found him scummy cause of "some posts" - never says which. Also promises to show why he finds NS town, lies again
9: First rofl confrontation; still fluff really
10: Directly contradicts his own god-damn post
read this "I had a scum read on him because of some posts and it has since become more null, but some pressure on him isnt a bad idea." and this "I am not the type of player to place a vote and say "this is just to put some pressure on." I think that's dumb because it tells the player that you dont really have a good case on them."
He's not even sure why he's voting rofl at this point. After Yos' persistance, rofl was suddenly never null.
11: Acknowledges his obvious contradiction; also contradicts his previous point were he said Town should not care - clearly shows that he cares about being lynched by fessing up to lying. Tries to diffuse the situation by finally explaining why NS is town. Why rofl is scum, we still don't know.
12: Says he answered Yos' rofl question. Still hasn't answered Yos' rofl question.
13: Finally explains rofl
a) "game mechanics are super important in this game," - never talked about game mechanics, votes me for saying that my game mechanics discussion was a scum master plan.
b) blatant misrep of rofl, who's not saying we should quicklynch, but we should not wear out a wagon
14: replaces out

Weapons:
0: Joins
1: Posts gather-up-posts; says nothing new to be fair, although he disagrees with Trollie about NS
2: Fluff
3: Says he doubts NS' claim...which is extremely fucking weird.
4: I have no idea what this post is
5: Thinks Yos is scum o.0
6: Thinks quadz is lying; doesn't explain either Yos or quadz
7: His last post; explains Yos scumminess which is actually somewhat ok.

So in 21 posts, there has been at best 2 pro-town posts, loads of fluff, and some down right scummy actions.

[FaerieLord]

:Yawn:
This interaction is so incredibly boring, cause you both know you are both town, but you're just clashing egos at this point.

[FaerieLord]

I have no idea either to that case, but there's a case on TrollieSlot.

[FaerieLord]

Yos, you're being stubborn. Ignore him, vote Tammy and help me push this wagon.
MoS, stop being a dick. You're just arguing for arguing's sake. Try help win the game.

Also, mod

Vote Count please

PEDIT: Hey, Amrun. Join the Tammy wagon, then.

[FaerieLord]

I'm not being "stubborn", i just see absolutely no reason why people keep calling MOS town. He doesn't look like it to me.

Give me one reason why scum would play like MoS? Why would scum draw so much attention on himself with an early hammer? Why would scum pick up the shittiest of arguments with one of the best players on the site for no reason? As terrible as MoS' play is this game, there's no denying, his actions make no sense as either town or scum. They are null, cause they are too fucking stupid.

So either MoS is trying to null himself out by being crap, or perhaps he's picking a bone that we're all missing. Either way, considering the wagon analysis I think Tierce had done (Might be wrong, she likes doing them normally though), MoS is more likely to be town.

Still, Tammy wagon nao. Continuing with Amrun, and seeing Tammy's answer. While she has shown some town reads ( as Tammy has pointed out), she has shown no scum reads. I know Tammy has fence-sat in the past as town, but this is complete non-commital play. Plus as stated, Weapons was meh to bad, Trollie was bad to terrible.

[FaerieLord]

As terrible as MoS' play is this game, there's no denying, his actions make no sense as either town or scum.

If you can't figure out why someone is doing their actions, if you can't figure out their motivation, the first question is, what win condition are they playing towards. Are their actions helping the town win, or helping the scum win?

MOS is not an idiot; he's got a huge amount of experience, and he doesn't do things for no reason.

And yet he has completely failed to give any plausible pro-town motivation for any of his actions. So the most likely possibility left is that he has a scum motivation for his actions.

As terrible as this sounds, I think MoS is just bored and wants to try something new. But I think the more we discuss him, the more we're beating a horny horse. Let's get back to Tammy.

Also, what's the case on LS? I don't think he's played particularly well, but I haven't seen his play as scummy per se.

[FaerieLord]

Ok, MoS is town. His switch makes a lot of sense, but I still want him to answer why he switched threads.
Also, support the massclaim in Aia. Should be done post-haste. Also, waiting for LS to come in here and claim himself.
As for the kills: No idea

(Side note: Lol, Amrun calling anyone useless in this game)

[FaerieLord]

FaerieLord - quick, who do you suspect?

Well, I've been tunneling onto Trollie for most of the game, so I still need to gather my thoughts for this new day, but

roflcopter
Amrun
Nobody Special
Yosarian2
FaerieLord
BBmolla (rp. MattP)
lastsurvivor
Panzerjager
Mastermind of Sin
quadz08
Tierce

Deducing things: I'm out, Panz and BB are claim-out, Yos is obvtown out, MoS is role out, quadz is claim out, rofl is counter-wagon out.

Leaving: You, NS, LS, and Tierce. Most likely from that list is LS, imo, but I wouldn't count out Tierce (who might have a free-switch ability and is pulling off a really ballsy gambit). I won't count you out either, cause I can't think of a reason why you're town, although you don't have much going your way scumwise either. NS I'll call town on gut, and because claiming mimic without knowing the setup is not something I'd do as scum. I'd claim VT or something innocuous.

So yeah, in order: LS, Tierce, You.

Now, a question for you: What do you feel about rofl right now? Your last post was that you don't find him scummy anymore. Feelings now?

I obviously switched threads because I wanted scum to think I didn't have a useful ability and thus had no other action worth taking at night.

That's a bit speculative, to be honest, but a fair enough reason.

[FaerieLord]

rofl is counter-wagon out.

Nay.
Why are you so sure all the blue scum started here and all the red scum started Over There? There's no saying roflcopter can't be different-scum being wagoned alongside Tammy.

While I'm not sure, the probability stacks up this way. 2/3 chance, then 1/2 chance. And again in Aia. That's only slightly more than a 10% chance. So I'll take LS, You and Amrun as more likely than him.

I DO think that either Aia should come over here

, or we need to get about half of this thread to jump ship to Aia.

I thought the same thing, but thought maybe losing a lynch wouldn't be worth it. Now that Yos reasoning has been posted, I agree with Yos2

I'm a mimic

Bullshit. Counter claim

Reading Aia now

[FaerieLord]

Vote: Lastsurvivor

then,

@Panz: Why would he block instead of killing? That's a pretty shoddy gambit if you ask me, come tomorrow.

[FaerieLord]

Doubt SatanCat is scum, mostly cause there was a kill last night and Tierce moved threads again. That said, SatanCat is a bit of a dick. Also, LS' lack of willingness to comment about game happenings and obsession with trying to shift things onto other people pretty much confirms him as scum.

So yeah, Aia, get your massclaim finished, pick one, and let's move to the next night

[FaerieLord]

I fucking knew MoS would hammer

[FaerieLord]

I came after MoS hammered, but I don't read a page in a second. Either way, I don't mind this time. It was more like a "Called it!" rather than a "God damn it!"