Otherworld Mafia - Aia - Over

[Magister Ludi]

Vote Tierce (L-5)

[Magister Ludi]

Well I certainly think monitoring the other thread is a must, considering we can portal in/other people can portal out. I don't think pusedo votes are going to be very effective, I think what would be much better is if someone joins a thread with a player they have a suspicion on they voice it then as opposed to haphazardly.

[Magister Ludi]

Also, for the distribution of players, you have to think some of it was non-random. It wouldn't make sense to put (in the extreme case) the whole scum squad in one thread and have 13 townies brawling it out in the other aimlessly. So I think they'd at least put one or two scum in both threads, and then randomize the rest.

[Magister Ludi]

Proposal 1: Force each entire thread to switch threads night1. If the scum kill counts as a night action, then we avoid the scumkill and control the daily lynches. Repeat until victory.

X

I want you to stop and both;

a.) Think about this and tell me why this is a very bad idea for town
b.) Tell me why the fact this was already suggestion didn't factor into your mind

[Magister Ludi]

I'm very comfortable with my Tierce vote.

And to Quad, just to reaffirm with others, you should be portal-ing every single night. And then probably lynched at some point.

I thought it made sense as a factional ability, but no harm in asking,

Cyb, is the mafia night kill factional, i.e. can every member of the mafia portal and the group still submit a kill?

[Magister Ludi]

Competing wagons means *good info*. Though I need to ask, are all the votes on DCL serious or are some just leftover remnants from the RVS?

Also, I had the same question as MoS for the mod, unfortunately no dice either, heh.

[Magister Ludi]

I remember the last time I played with projectmatt I thought he was scum for the longest time and he turned out to be town, so it may just be his posting style, but so far here I don't like what he is doing. He left the DCL wagon at L-2 when it would have probably been town-helpful to stick around and see how DCL responded to a little pressure to get a better read on him (and it looked like project's first vote was semi-nonrandom?) to vote implosion for I don't really know what.

[Magister Ludi]

[Magister Ludi]

Ludi--anytime you feel like explaining your vote other than "I agree with Vi2 baaaah", I'll be here.

would moooooooooooo suffice?

My vote feels... right... at the moment. There aren't any better people to vote in my opinion.

[Magister Ludi]

Notes to self;
1. make peregrineV answer questions
2. remember that zajnet hasn't posted today
3. Quadz is town, but must be lynched at some point
4. Tierce vote is still a-go-go, despite me rooting for portugal, vs spain (harsh I know)
5. DCL's obvious joke was not obvious, but funny in hindsight
6. MoS is pinging the radar of scummy mc-scumatude
7. RedFF is running around like a chicken with its head cut off, but I'll need more time with my tea leaves to determine if he's scum or just....

[Magister Ludi]

Been away for a while, sorry.

I'm upgrading MoS to the annihilate shortlist, and am again amused that there is a wagon springing up to rival Tierce, first DCL and now redff. It's not a concrete tell, but outside of anything else, this usually means the other wagon (tierce) is scum.

[Magister Ludi]

Magister Ludi, you're calling redFF a counterwagon to Tierce. Between those two wagons, who are the Town and who are the scum?

Because Areas Are Cool

Tierce (4): Magister Ludi, iamausername, quadz08, Vi
redFF (4): Korts, projectmatt, Tierce, PereGrineV

Town:
Magister
Quadz
Vi
Korts

Scum
Tierce
projectmatt??

[Magister Ludi]

In the Box, Part 2

You're either terminantly refusing to second-guess yourself (bad plan due to my alignment) or we have Viscum--in which case

I'd rather cut to the chase and die today

to not be lynchbait the rest of the game when there's that happy fun capslock spammeRageTUNNEL across the portal.

I'd like a definitive answer here, actually, on what you think of Vi

If you think Vi is town, then: you need to stop arguing with her and insinuating she is scum
If you think Vi is scum, then: you need to vote yourself, as per what your own words seems to be saying.

[Magister Ludi]

It just reads as unnecessarily pulling on our heartstrings. If you want to die, then fine, vote yourself. If however, you're town, I don't want you to even think of dying, and come help us win this game.

[Magister Ludi]

Yes, I'm incredibly frustrated with this. People expect me to be All Obvtown, All The Time as town, when I have had obvtown behavior in certain instances as scum. If you want to use quadz's analogy for it--by now, my obvtown behavior could be, perhaps, interpreted as a nulltell.

I just want you to know i'm not voting you for 'not being obv-town' or whatever else people are insinuating. I guess I haven't read enough of your games to know where this is coming from.

Also, MLP brethren unite!

[Magister Ludi]

Been away for a while, again. Tierce, I'll answer your questions later tonight.

Also,

Unvote
Vote: MOS

[Magister Ludi]

Erm, what? My question was a simple one and I wondered if it could be clarified easily or I had misread the rules.

[Magister Ludi]

I told you, I didn't think it was hidden information otherwise I wouldn't have asked.

[Magister Ludi]

I have no problem with lynching MoS.

Not reading the thread; check!
Not giving any attempt to really find scum; check!
Rook to e4; check!
Not actually giving a damn; check!

ok boom shakalaka

[Magister Ludi]

You did not even approach my issue with your wagon "analysis", that it was the fact that the first 'competing wagon' (DCLXVI) was hardly significant, and that D1 4-vote wagons at 7 to lynch aren't exactly a great proof of 'competing wagons on D1 one is totally on scum!' What kind of information do you expect to get from these wagons? What behavior are you seeing as more likely to scum from town in the vote movements, and viceversa? Why? What would a town flip on DCLXVI/me/redFF tell you about the game state?

Quoting to remember to respond to and give kick ass reasons.

[Magister Ludi]

Its not, for the simple reason Tierce is trying, and will be contributing if town and leaving a paper trail if scum.

Plus, if MoS keeps up this attitude the whole game, he needs to go, and sooner rather than later.

[Magister Ludi]

Exactly. If I was scum I'd have been doing stuff.

Yeah but since you know this, you can hide under the veil of 'i'm not doing anything, so I must be town'. Its not as if you thought up this argument 5 minutes ago.

And doing *stuff* is inherently pro-town. You have the choice between a protown action and a proscum action (doing nothing. just imagine if everyone had your mindset), and you've done the scummy one and tried to pass it off as being town. I don't believe this.

Its like you want us to believe you are town thinking "i'll be as useless as possible right now. That'll show them that I'm town!"

[Magister Ludi]

Mastermind as Scum, Day One

Ok, using some spectacular meta of one game I have played with mos, I have to say my suspicion is not shaken in the slightest.

[Magister Ludi]

projectmatt, do you think MoS right now is scummy or just anti-town?

Helloooo fluff? What is the difference here? Scummy means acting to further pro-scum win con, anti-town is self explanatory. Does it matter what he thinks, because I don't think you are going to ask projectt to unvote if he replies 'anti-town'

[Magister Ludi]

Yes, because selectively picking out a scum game as an example and not looking at any of my town games really provides a convincing example of my Day 1 play. But then, you already admitted it was a rather useless meta, so why exactly did you bother posting it, again?

Yeah well its the only game I played with you. I was being sort of cheeky, I hope you didn't mind

[Magister Ludi]

So I hear you read all the games, including the one where I was town and blatantly lurked my way through Day 1 just like I do in all my games? Hrmmm...I can't decide if you're just not paying attention or if you are ignoring evidence on purpose.

Which game were you in? I didn't read every page of every game, though.

[Magister Ludi]

Ok, in Cow's game MoS played sorta similiar, was town, a liability, and got lynched in lylo to lose the game for town.

I want to lynch Mastermind today.

[Magister Ludi]

Actually, I don't see the reason to do it right now, sorry. It looks like it will quagmire this thread for no reason.

[Magister Ludi]

Deadline extended, good.

I'm going to reread redFF because people here seem to think he is scum, but I think he is town.

[Magister Ludi]

I think someone in Vasta made quite a valid point about how MoS requested a deadline extension, when he's done next to nothing here all day.

On a redff reread note, he's not in my top two to lynch,

[Magister Ludi]

I agree with quadz08. That is exactly the problem.

[Magister Ludi]

Magister Ludi - Playing fairly badly, but that's par for the course in my experience...I think he actually played better as scum when I've been in games with him before...probably town

I think we played (1?) game together and you got sort of steamrolled as scum. So bleh on you too.

To Vi, I think PeregrineV is mild town here, but compared to most everyone else in this game he is pushing super town.

[Magister Ludi]

Oh thats right. Scum won that game too, Yeehaw!

So where and why did you decide I'm playing badly and that that would be par for the course.

[Magister Ludi]

Yes that was me. And that particular attempt didn't work out, no.

When you call my attacks half-assed, you make your previous attempts at posting looking absolutely cheek-less. It's pretty in-genuine to call them half-assed because they're against you. IF I, was, say, attacking peregrineV with what you are terming half an ass, I don't think you would be batting a pretty little eyelid.

[Magister Ludi]

Also, what does 'playing well this game' even mean? How does anyone do this. If i'm not playing well, who is the paragon of towniness that I am being compared to that is playing well?

[Magister Ludi]

I'd like you to answer my 430 in response to your 428 in regards to playing well and etc. Your sidewindery attack has not gone unnoticed.

[Magister Ludi]

I want to lynch MoS, and then cut him down from the tree, chop off his head, collect the fountaining blood in my marble chalice it, drink, laugh, chop the rest of his body into pieces, cremate them separately, mix them into paint, and paint the walls of 16 different bathrooms with his remains.

[Magister Ludi]

These 'etc's' are like crack. once you start, you can't stop.

choo choo, etc.

[Magister Ludi]

I agree. I don't think redff is the play today.

[Magister Ludi]

I'm back from what felt like forever, and am disappointed that redFF ended up lynched.

Erm, anyone want to chat. I've never had a twilight like this before except with Tar's no night blaz blue.

[Magister Ludi]

Well to all original residents of Aia who may be leaving tonight, myself included, it was a wacky day over here.

Why do you want roflcopter dead Vi? I know you want it, but i'm not too sure why, especially over several other people.

[Magister Ludi]

I think it would have helped had you been in the game with me the whole time. I haven't said a ton this game, but being in the blend and having synchronous mental response to my words is where some of the *good feelings* come from

[Magister Ludi]

It's sort of an exclusive country club feel in here at the moment.

Epic double flip was epic. I was totally wrong about redFF, and that's a good thing.

I was thinking that there are two scum teams and that both started with three members in each thread.

I'll reread the first day.

Question for Vi, did you target me last night?

[Magister Ludi]

I am going to be cryptic here, but hopefully you know what I am talking about, I targeted you last night

[Magister Ludi]

scumreads
DCL- i've explained why.
Vi- Pushing a Tierce scumread without actually explaining why she's scum
projectmatt- for asking a dumb question when he hasn't actually contributed, also a shitty implosion vote. Saying he's forcing enthusiasm without saying why is just as bad as saying a post is interesting. It means nothing and is just scummy white noise to justify a shitty vote.

Town
iaun-actively scumhunting, has reason behind his posts
implosion- shares a view on DCL with me, also your [projectmatt] shitty attack on him strengthens him in my eyes
Tierce- purely for Vi's pushing on her, this is a mild townread obv

Lets see if we can mine this. If we're going three scum in this thread, then there are only two buddies for redFF to comment on. I don't think he is the bussing kind, and so if there is scum it comes in the 'town' section. I would lynch implosion here, (and not just because Tierce is in the other thread) this looks like a classic but a buddy in the town zone leave the other out tactic. It also semi clears DCL for me, not that I wasn't leaning town already, but he was redFF's main push through the beginning of the day.

What's also interesting is how that redFF 'random' votes implosion and then leaves quite quickly to scuttle onto DCL.

1. I agree with korts in that those meanwhile in vasta posts could get very confusing after a while.

2.Another thing I think is funny is that DCL condemned korts for saying to limit thread communication, but hasn't referenced or made an attempt to communicate with the other thread once, despite the fact that he is obviously reading it because of the korts suspicion.

3.

To Korts

Sup, put mos at l-1 and then maybe someone'll hammer before he gets back to hammer me.
If you come back and hammer me when MoS is at L-2 and you've said that you want MoS to be the leading wagon, then that's really scummy and will show after my flip.

This bothered me for reasons I can't explain. On a deep primordial level.

and in fact vote:projectmatt

Projectmatt into the town bucket. RedFF was pushing him for far too long and with intensity for me to want to lynch him today.

Town: (or at least people I am not willing to lynch)
1. PeregrineV (repeated redFF push)
2. Vi
3. Projectmatt
4. DCL

People who I am willing to Lynch, and who may also be scum
1. Implosion
2. Korts

Vote: Implosion

Intent to Lynch if wagon appears: Korts

[Magister Ludi]

I forgot plum. Well I will have to reread plum. Lump her into the town pile for now.

[Magister Ludi]

People who I am willing to Lynch, and who may also be scum

I have to agree with Vi:

People who I am willing to Lynch, and who may also be scum

This doesn't feel right.

Well considering MoS and Tierce both teleported out, and they were who I thought were scum, its not implausible to me that we have no scum in this thread and all town. Which would be a disaster.

[Magister Ludi]

Vi

quadz and Magister Ludi are such scary probscums pushing the MoS wagon over the redFF wagon.~

Not sorry about that at all. I would still push MoS if he was here. Lurking + no promise of content + attitude = ripe day one lynch. And what are the names in purple for?

---------

implosion

@ludi: i don't know about his townread on me, but his red and I know each other decently well outside of mafiascum, and the only other MS game we played together we tunneled each other day one (at least i remember i tunneled him, i think he also tunneled me). That's why i voted him, and that's probably why he voted me.

Him voting you is not my only reason for putting a vote down here. If you know red so well, though, can you mine his iso and give me your thoughts on who his potential buddies are?

-------

Plum

I'd also be pretty damn happy voting Magister Ludi right now. Really. Because I can't help feeling that he's scum. It's not just Vi's wagon analysis, though I think that has definite value of its own. Partly it's the redFF analysis, lacking in an odd way - it's skimming redFF with little enough context, and little enough consideration of implosion and/or Korts as their own entities. It manages to be half-assed and yet come to the conclusion of voting a suspect Iam would likely have voted and I have expressed as my top suspect alive; and half-assed in a way that makes me doubt its sincerity. Plus I don't feel particularly good about this exchange I had with/regarding him:

Calling Vi's wagon coloring "analysis" is exceedingly generous here. I can color people every which way from sunday as well. It has no value.

And I didn't skim redFF, I read his whole iso, came to a conclusive idea of what I thought of people based on his play, and then posted a few of his words that made me feel this way. It was not in any way half-assed, I spent quite a deal of time thinking about it. Post length does not indicate how much thought is put into a case. And it is far and away the best analysis of redFF anyone else has produced here today. Who cares who Iam would have suspected? Not me, I don't even really know what he thought or would have pushed, and am mildly surprised he died last night. If Iam would have suspected implosion according to you, and Iam dies, are you not implicating that implosion is scum? I'm not sure how you make the logical leap from

iam suspects implosion---> implosion dead ---> Magister Ludi scum.

This hits all the wrong notes for me, especially in appealing to someone who got a lot of Townreads pretty quickly - I asked Vi about her Townread. He tries to convince me not just that his actions were pro-Town - in a weak and unconvincing manner ('Yeah I haven't done much, but I was totally integrated in the game!'), but attempts to justify Vi's apparent Townread. This is not an argument that he hasn't been fluffy and hedgey, not really. It's . . . blah. I don't like it, and I don't like this in light of it:

I am not appealing to anyone (re: you). I also did not say I haven't done much, only that I have POSTED much. There is a clear difference, and playing with chamber or whoever will convince you of this fact. Usually I am more prolific. Don't paint one as the other. What I did do is explain why people thought I was town, which was what you were asking, I don't understand you problem with the fact it came from me.

I have not been fluffy or hedgey either, I take note of the metagame in every game, and adapt accordingly. If I am thought of as town, am getting the people I want pressure on pressured, and people listen to me, I see no reason to suddenly quadruple my post count for the sake of doing so. And note, before you came in and tried to come onto me, this is exactly what was happening.

This at the end of a post voting Implosion. Does he not know I had Implosion as my top suspect at the end of Day 1? Has this no bearing on or relationship to his thinking? Or is he hedging carefully around a player who's considered Townish by many players in this world and has already expressed at least some suspicion of him?

Screw it.

No? I didn't read your ginormous post, if it was in that one, I didn't see it. Actually, when I made that post I completely forgot you were in the game, I don't think you showed up in redFF's iso, and it was only after I posted that I realized I had only seven players 4+2+me in my post, I had forgotten someone. It was you, and I had mildly town feelings on you day one, so I posted giving my read on you. I am amused at this false dilemma thing you're trying to paint me into though, and it is not pro-town. Just ask me what I was thinking, don't insinuate fifteen different things.

[Magister Ludi]

Yes, that's precisely what my fourth thought was earlier. It would be a beautiful move because Vasta won't enforce the no-switching rule, it makes it so that the ideal play is probably to lynch in spite of the possibility of there being no scum in this thread, and Vasta would have five scum in their thread and a disposition to lynch scum over Mafia so they're relatively safe.~

But the question of the Day is whether that actually happened or not.

Which is why I made that comment about my scum list. The objective of today is to try and find scum, but keep in the back of them mind that none could be in here. Lynching the players that are playing the most suspect, and have the best links to redFF is probably the best play here, it could net scum, it could not. Truthfully, I bank on there actually being scum in here than on my ability to correctly call out two scum and both of them to teleport out. If I was that convinced, I would no lynch and go to night and just a mega twilight analyzing vasta.

But I do think implosion is the best bet to lynch today though.

[Magister Ludi]

Actually, another thought. Two actually.

1. I don't think it was every established that all the scum couldn't teleport and still use a factional kill re: tierece
2. If Tierce claims not to have moved by herself, and she flips town, then that means scum moved here. Does moving tierce seem like a pro-town action? That means is no one claims to have moved tierce, that ability is scum.

WHICH COULD MEAN;

if scum can't teleport and kill, and tierce's move doesn't get claim, two scum are in here, one killed and one moved tierce, and the other three are confirmed not red scum. So yeah.

Back to your regularly scheduled programming.

[Magister Ludi]

To

You misunderstand me - I do think implosion is fairly likely scum, and am as yet unsure to what degree I should be pursuing my scattered but persistent suspicions of you today in relation to cornering him. I was confused that you didn't note the connection between Iam's reads yesterday, his death, and your new attacks on implosion,

assuming that your hunting up implosion was as thorough as you weighted it in the post in question and sprung from Town scumhunting.

Excellent, we're on the same page re: implosion scum. I don't think your second points are valid. If there was a connection there, which is certainly debatable, I missed it. And I'm not sure what your last sentence (bolded for convenience) means.

On your next point. You are saying you came onto an implosion read by many different ways. Thats good. I did primarily use redFF to try and find who was scum, and combined that with a little vote count checking and implosion's own words. I think a much better way to find scum is by what they did or did not do, and how they interacted with other scum, than to try and parse a players words. Anyone can make themselves sound good.

Re: too little of substance. I was posting as much as I thought I needed to to get my point across and come away as town. Seeing as this was happening, I didn't go mega-wall when I didn't have to. As for defending myself, that didn't come's from scum minded defensiveness.

And to your 'defensive' argument, the whole "being defensive is a scum tell" thing is, and has always been, bogus. Everyone should always defend themselves in detail against any reasonable accusation (and against most unreasonable ones as wll).

If you're town, and someone's calling you scum, either their facts are wrong, their logic is wrong, they're jumping to conclusions incorrectly, or at the very least their argument is inconclusive. One of those things must be true, and whenever someone accuses you, it's your job to say why they're wrong.

I tend to consider failure to defend yourself properly a scumtell, and defending yourself to be null at worst.

(I first figured out that "being defensive is a scumtell" thing was crap during my first few games as scum; I was amazed how easy it was for a scum to get a mislynch using it. Step 1, attack someone. Step 2, when they defend themselves, call them defensive. Never failed.)

Defensivness isn't scummy, period. If you defend yourself against a mild attack with a mile long post, then that might be an overreaction, but it isn't at all scummy; there's no reason to think scum is more likely to do that then town.

Now, if you're defending yourself without scumhunting, that can be scummy, but there the tell is the lack of scumhunting, not defending yourself. If you're defending yourself in detail, it pretty much just means you're playing the game properly; nobody wants to be lynched, and if you let even minor incorrect arguments against you stand without responding to them, it's very likely to come back and bite you on the ass later in the game.

As for the townread on you. I did sort of remember you posting a lot, which I liked, and Vi had a town read on you as well. This came together to give me vague good vibes on you, and considering I didn't find anything bad by looking through redFF's iso, I put you in my town lump.

[Magister Ludi]

[image]http://forum.mafiascum.net/download/fil ... 343356.png[/image]

Can you answer my question regarding the bolded part?

That's not the case, so stop framing it that way. If you managed to get your points across, great - but I found that your points tended to have little substance and press less action than they should have.

You're just going to have to know I disagree and leave it at that. I maintain my posts were doing everything I needed them to do. You say they were not. But they were. Besides coming across as town to everyone (except you when you replaced in) and getting my wagons moving, that being MoS and Tierce, what more 'action' did you want me to do?

[Magister Ludi]

I borked the image tags. Silly me!

Mod, fix por favor!

[Magister Ludi]

Wow no images? Talk about the no fun police up in this thread.

[Magister Ludi]

Peregrine, implosion, and korts all pushing 2 days or over without posting. Come on guys, if you're town get in here.

[Magister Ludi]

You're right, he comes back Wednesday. Well then.

[Magister Ludi]

V/LA for next two or three days

[Magister Ludi]

If korts gets traction, I can come too.

[Magister Ludi]

Not bad my little chickadee

Unvote
Vote: shadoweh

[Magister Ludi]

I'm waiting on people to vote. nothing needs more saying

[Magister Ludi]

Vote PeregrineV (L-1)

Claim big boy

[Magister Ludi]

You are one stupid stupidhead

[Magister Ludi]

Yo. Currently on way to prague. carry on.

[Magister Ludi]

Yo

[Magister Ludi]

This long twilights are very weird.

[Magister Ludi]

Actually I may have a request for someone. Someone may need to claim.

[Magister Ludi]

A targeting role would be nice

[Magister Ludi]

So its DCL and Tierce as scum then?

[Magister Ludi]

Should we mass claim?

[Magister Ludi]

I'm for mass claim here. We should have done it yesterday in twilight in my opinion.

[Magister Ludi]

I am willing to lynch a pr. Mason can just claim VT, and only claim mason if being run up.

[Magister Ludi]

You can claim first bucko please and thank you.

[Magister Ludi]

It does not make sense for Mimic to claim VT.

I am a Mimic.

popcorn to DCL

[Magister Ludi]

If lastsurvivior is scum we could just firebomb this thread to catch the last scum over her. OR just lynch everyone originally from Aia minus Quadz

[Magister Ludi]

Targets;

Vi night one, nothing
Peregrine night two, nothing
Tierce night three, nothing

[Magister Ludi]

Yeah. I was trying to discern if you were a mimic or not, I thought about mass claiming at that time too

[Magister Ludi]

And also explain to you that if you targeted me it and got nothing it was because I was a mimic as well

[Magister Ludi]

To Tierece

1. I just get told I received nothing from my use of mimic, nothing about whether "peregrinve actually has an active ability" or I got roleblocked. I wanted him to claim because If was scum and fakeclaimed some sort of targeting role, I would know he was lying and could lynch away. I didn't actually expect DCL to hammer like an idiot there..
2. I needed to pick someone. I figured I may as well test you, and see if you were had a role. Could not care if you did or did not hint strongly at being vanilla day one.

[Magister Ludi]

I thought you had a town read on me at that point. And if you did, I was trying to explain why exactly your mimic failed.

Erm, lets get to lynching. If DCL is telling the truth, I don't think its possible he can make someone switch threads and also kill in here. I'll mimic him tonight anyways. So implosion and Vi remain

implosion

[Magister Ludi]

Vote : implosion

mimic
1. target a player
2.copy their ability
3. already have an ability, can use that on another player
4. or can mimic someone else
5. and you should really specify what you are doing
6. not just name!!!

[Magister Ludi]

That is the role tierce. Not sure what you want. Unless you are a SCUMLORD

[Magister Ludi]

Best town performance. Dude 6 scum lynches two mislynches epic sauce.